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Author Topic: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk!  (Read 242393 times)

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Posts: 355
big-M,
I'm sure the posts on 911 can be moved to the 911 thread, I think peterae will help you with that.

Again sorry, I had merely commented on something you posted, didn't mean for it to get out of hand.


---------------------------
"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   

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Posts: 2883
tExB=qr
What can you do to survive in a world that is so corrupt and controlling?

   

Sr. Member
****

Posts: 355
big-m
My vote would be for you to please post them here. Thank you.


---------------------------
"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   
Sr. Member
****

Posts: 403
big-m
My vote would be for you to please post them here. Thank you.
Very good; I'll keep that in mind.   I'd rather do that anyway, but I'll give it a day or so.
Thanks,

--Lee


---------------------------
"The truth comes from wisdom, and widsom comes from experience."
                   --Valdemar  Valerian
                   --from the Matrix series of books

 
"Whosoever speaks or otherwise acts, has no secrets."
                                     --Roman proverb?
   
Sr. Member
****

Posts: 403
big-M,
I'm sure the posts on 911 can be moved to the 911 thread, I think peterae will help you with that.
Right.   I'll wait for him to respond.   I'm seriously thinking of moving them.
Quote
Again sorry, I had merely commented on something you posted, didn't mean for it to get out of hand.
No, that's okay.   No worries.   It's a touchy subject, anyway.

--Lee


---------------------------
"The truth comes from wisdom, and widsom comes from experience."
                   --Valdemar  Valerian
                   --from the Matrix series of books

 
"Whosoever speaks or otherwise acts, has no secrets."
                                     --Roman proverb?
   

Sr. Member
****

Posts: 355
So I would rate MH and Room 3327 as part of the "Lunatic Fringe" of which MH speaks. Regarding the bell curve, unfortunately in this case the Lunatic "fringe" dominate the center of the bell curve especially in the USA where the propaganda machine is working day and night to keep the fiction going.


"The Lunatic "fringe" dominate the center of the bell curve"  LOL LOL do you hear what you are saying? I'm sorry but that is really funny! so people like me and MH are the lunitic fringe but we occupy the center of the bell curve. Who is the real hater here?  I have studied extensively in many different disciplines through my entire life and am still studying and learning and I would be happy to learn something new if you were able to teach it to me.


---------------------------
"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   

Sr. Member
****

Posts: 355
There is the hate program of Room3327: simply stated: all Muslims are evil and we we must war against them.

I guess I can't let this go without comment either.

I have never said all Muslims are bad, evil or any other thing, don't set up a straw man argument.  I know that there are good muslims out there, I have always said that most of you need to learn about ISLAM.  Islam is an ideaology and once you get to know Islamic ideaology you too will come to know how contrary to our beliefs it really is.  Calling people like me, who are sounding the warning alarm, names does nothing for truth.  So again I ask everyone who can, to at least read the Koran, I know it is boring but it has become a necessity if you want to understand what is going on in the world.  Without the knowledge of Islam you cannot put it all together.


---------------------------
"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   

Hero Member
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Posts: 1126
...

This is an electronic research Bench.   The new thread will be in a more general Forum suited to its topic.

--Lee


Aye, we are thinking people with minds which
are inclined to wander.

Even while at the bench our thoughts cannot
remain long focused on the task at hand.

It is hard not to let the stresses and anxieties
of the world enter into our thoughts as we strive
to come to terms with things we cannot understand.

Your tolerance and gentle suggestions are very
much appreciated.  You have been far more
accommodating than most...    Many thanks.

The discussion which began here is very important
to all concerned.


---------------------------
“When an honest man realizes that he is mistaken, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest.” –Anonymous
   
Sr. Member
****

Posts: 403
Your tolerance and gentle suggestions are very
much appreciated.  You have been far more
accommodating than most...    Many thanks.

The discussion which began here is very important
to all concerned.
Good man.   Everyone appreciates being appreciated.

--Lee


---------------------------
"The truth comes from wisdom, and widsom comes from experience."
                   --Valdemar  Valerian
                   --from the Matrix series of books

 
"Whosoever speaks or otherwise acts, has no secrets."
                                     --Roman proverb?
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1126
...

Who is the real hater here?  I have studied extensively in many different disciplines through my entire life and am still studying and learning and I would be happy to learn something new if you were able to teach it to me.

Where is there any "hate?"

This deflection terminology is too much used by
agents of the true perpetrators and your use of
the same accusatory terminology is highly suspicious.
We tend to speak as we've been "programmed"
to believe.

Is it necessary to rely on someone else to "teach"
us?  Why impose that responsibility onto another?
Is it not possible to do one's own research and
study?

Or, have you been "conditioned" to expect others
to provide for you?


Quote from: Room3327
...
So again I ask everyone who can, to at least read the Koran, I know it is boring but it has become a necessity if you want to understand what is going on in the world.  Without the knowledge of Islam you cannot put it all together.

This is good advice - the Koran is most interesting.

At the same time I'd further suggest that all should
read a good reliable translation of the Talmud.  This
document is also most interesting and revealing.

ION has "nailed it"


---------------------------
“When an honest man realizes that he is mistaken, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest.” –Anonymous
   

Sr. Member
****

Posts: 355
Dumped,

Try reading post #4 above from ION.

Sorry you really don't get what I am saying, try reading the entire threads sometime.


---------------------------
"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1126
Dumped,

Try reading post #4 above from ION.

Sorry you really don't get what I am saying, try reading the entire threads sometime.

I've read all of the posts within this "entire
thread."

I "get" what you're saying, both before and now.

Why would you think otherwise?


---------------------------
“When an honest man realizes that he is mistaken, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest.” –Anonymous
   

Sr. Member
****

Posts: 355
Quote
Is it necessary to rely on someone else to "teach"
us?  Why impose that responsibility onto another?
Is it not possible to do one's own research and
study?

Or, have you been "conditioned" to expect others
to provide for you?



Dumped,

I was being facetious, apparently right over your head.
Quote


---------------------------
"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 1211
Frequency equals matter...
Watch all the vids on youtube of [Deception project]
Take note of the card game from 1996 called [Armageddon]. It portrays the twin towers burning on one the cards.

Oh, the Bible tells of a great liar in control in the end times. I saw a picture of Obama with a hand placed on the wailing wall wearing a yamaka.
And when you fold up U.S. currency bills to show actual pictures of the event. Could this be done at any other time in history?

Islam: Beat yourself in the box.
Muslim: Stay in the box.
Judiasm: Nobody else is in the box but us.
Buddha: Be nice in the box.
Western religions: The inside of the box is a nice color.
Christainity: Can you just take one step out of the box? Please?!?!!?
Vaedic texts: What is a box, we have many layers.
Hare Krishna: Did you know that the universe and beyond pulsates?
Hinduism: It is infinity.
Atheists: The power to discern belief from reality.

Me: Manicled to the wrong planet.

Tell a black man he comes from monkeys and he'll kick your ass. But the government can teach evolution unabated. OBTW, where did snakes come from? Any fossil records? Any new reptiles?

Lies. The process of explaining something that doesn't exist. What patterns do you live by?


---------------------------
   
Group: Guest
Ive seen most of the videos and commentary vids on it all.

1 building was hit 2 times. But 3 buildings went down like perfect demolitions.

No buildings like these have ever gone down due to fire.  none

Control towers at the time, had the capability to control the planes by remote, as they can today.

And, they must have been doing some Philadelphia experiment at the pentagon, to get all of that passenger jet into that hole in the side of the building.  No wings, no engines. People? Passengers?  Not on the lawn. Its all in the hole.  lol

It was a sham.

Mags
   
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Posts: 2834
It's turtles all the way down
Adolf Hitler had his radio engineers design special low cost radios. These were widely distributed and sold to the populace so that everyone in Germany could hear the speeches of the "fuhrer". Funny thing about those radios, they were weak on receptivity and could not pull in stations from outside the country. Hitlers large powerful transmitters insured that his  programming agenda swamped any  signals from other countries.

In the U.S we have the major newspapers, which are pretty much wholly owned by Rupert Murdoch, and the cable and sattelite news networks which broadcast their purportedly "balanced" news programs. The "agenda" is spoonfed daily and most suck it up like candy or as if it was real information. .

One might compare the center of the bell curve of Germany in the 30's and 40's to the center of the bell curve of the US in the years pre and post 9/11. Then we can talk about the "Lunatic Fringe".

If you ask anyone on the street how a car or TV works, you will get a myriad of opinions, most of which will probably be useless as to the real functionings of a car or TV. But everyone is allowed to have an "opinion". So it is with 9/11, there are many opinions about it.

To find the truth, you will need the skills of a really savvy detective, for the truth has been hidden deep, and like the movie"Twelve Angry Men" where the majority are sure they are right about their opinion of the murder, they can be dead wrong.

You will have to start accumulating data, perhaps terabytes of  data. You will need to spend countless hours of your daily life to uncover what may be the truth of the matter, for the truth has been skillfully hidden..

Most people are too lazy to do this and would rather swallow the standard "conspiracy theory". It is convenient and does not take away time from their favorite TV shows.

The "old saw" that if you don't believe the standard government proliferated conspiracy theory regarding the perpetrators of 9/11, you are probably one of those tinfoil hat types that also don't believe we ever went to the moon.

My retort would be that if you do believe the standard government proliferated conspiracy regarding the perpetrators of 9/11, you probably also believe that governments never lie to their populace.

Of course they never lie! LOL. Attached for your reading pleasure "Operation Northwoods". Real fun begins on page 7 of the original document.

Also sited earlier and attached is the PNAC document, but "sigh" its too much to read and you'll miss your favorite TV show.

« Last Edit: 2011-11-29, 00:52:36 by ION »


---------------------------
Just because it has a patent application or is patented does not always mean it really works.
   

Sr. Member
****

Posts: 355
ION,

I don't disagree with some of the things you say, I totally agree with you that the Main Stream Media is absolutely useless for real information anywhere in any country and government on earth.  And YES we are being lied to, by many different people and organizations and governments, gosh does this mean I must wear a tin foil hat now?



---------------------------
"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   
Group: Guest
Maybe the fuel from the jetliners was not enough to take down the buildings, but think about the chemtrail chemicals on those planes.  Who knows what temperature that stuff burns at?
   
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Posts: 2834
It's turtles all the way down
ION,

I don't disagree with some of the things you say, I totally agree with you that the Main Stream Media is absolutely useless for real information anywhere in any country and government on earth.  And YES we are being lied to, by many different people and organizations and governments, gosh does this mean I must wear a tin foil hat now?



There are many pillars that support government. These pillars must be kept disinformed for if the people were given the truth, the pillars would collapse and the governments imperial agenda would fail.

There are trillions of dollars  to be made by major oil companies  by dominating the mideast's resources. If a big lie and 3000 deaths will help mobilize us to that goal, why not, there are 50, 000 deaths on US highways every year that get us nothing, not to mention heart attack and cancer deaths.

I believe it was Hitler that said if you are going to lie, make it big one , then it is more believable than a small lie.

Quote
The Big Lie (German: Große Lüge) is a propaganda technique. The expression was coined by Adolf Hitler, when he dictated his 1925 book Mein Kampf, about the use of a lie so "colossal" that no one would believe that someone "could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously."

We can agree to disagree, nevertheless, there is much to learn.


---------------------------
Just because it has a patent application or is patented does not always mean it really works.
   
Group: Guest
Lots of opinions indeed.  Each side sees the other side as "brainwashed" and there is not much that you can do about it to bring them together.

Just like nobody really knows how the towers fell nobody really knows what is going on within the government.  I suppose it depends on how much of your mental energy you want to put into all of this stuff.  For me it's very little.

You go through life and in my case I work in the tech sector.  So I have been to various companies and dealt with government, etc, and from what I can see they are normal people and normally there are no grand conspiracies whenever something out of the ordinary happens.  This does not mean that there are not heavy things that go down in the name of national security.  I would not be surprised if way before 9/11 that there were functioning, active government hit squads.  However, they would go after especially nasty people for a real reason, stuff that almost nobody will ever know.  I don't lose sleep about it.

But, a few examples of people "stepping out of their bounds:"

Quote
No buildings like these have ever gone down due to fire.  none.

It doesn't really matter, you can't draw any conclusions at all from that statement.  I will just repeat what I said before because it's relevant:  The larger the scale of the building the more fragile it is.  This was the largest skyscraper ever to catch on fire, and be hit by two airplanes, and have a couple of thousand gallons of accelerant added to the mix to exacerbate the effects of fire.  Now that's never happened before and nobody really knew what could have happened under those conditions.

Quote
Maybe the fuel from the jetliners was not enough to take down the buildings, but think about the chemtrail chemicals on those planes.

Chemtrails make a cameo appearance in the discussion.  This is getting pretty close to tin foil hat territory.  This is just the conspiracy theory cottage industry stirring up nonsense to sell books!  Call it the "John ######" effect.  Everybody has to make a buck.  It's just HHO in the sky!

Quote
And, they must have been doing some Philadelphia experiment at the pentagon, to get all of that passenger jet into that hole in the side of the building.  No wings, no engines. People? Passengers?  Not on the lawn. Its all in the hole.  lol

Yeah, sh*t happens, and it's pretty strange sometimes.  I think that if I invested 45 minutes of my time online I could find some legit stories describing some of the plane remnants.  What I do know through is that except for the engines and the main rib in the wing, a passenger plane is yet another delicate snowflake that will pretty much disintegrate into dust if it crashes into a hard target like the Pentagon.  Planes are light fragile flying balloons, there is not much to them.  It's perfectly plausible and reasonable to not find much after the crash.

Quote
Take note of the card game from 1996 called [Armageddon]. It portrays the twin towers burning on one the cards.

It's called coincidence Giankiller.  This notion that some big bad boys in government are "planting signs" for us to see like they are the Joker from the 1966 Batman TV series is positively whackadoo.

Did we land on the moon?  Yes!

MileHigh
   

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Posts: 2883
tExB=qr
"Plausible deniability" is "open source".

Organized groups of people can use various tactics against "The System".  Of course we are taught that we are too disorganized, or too stupid to ever pull off a flip on "The System".   This may indeed be so.  The task of organizing a team and infiltrating "The System" is a daunting task this will take decades.  Where would you even start?  Hmm.  Sounds like a good movie.

The Group Anonymous comes to mind, and they have some credible hacks to date, but we need to seek higher goals.

 
   
Sr. Member
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Posts: 403
Very good; I'll keep that in mind.   I'd rather do that anyway, but I'll give it a day or so.
Thanks,
--Lee
Okay, guys, I'm about ready to transfer 9/11-related posts to here.    The "Move" function doesn't specify where a particular post lands when it gets to this Board.   I have no experience, which is why I asked .99 about it.

After the posts arrive, you can obviously comment on them individually.   Better than deleting them.

--Lee


---------------------------
"The truth comes from wisdom, and widsom comes from experience."
                   --Valdemar  Valerian
                   --from the Matrix series of books

 
"Whosoever speaks or otherwise acts, has no secrets."
                                     --Roman proverb?
   
Group: Elite
Hero Member
******

Posts: 2834
It's turtles all the way down
MH said:

Quote
Just like nobody really knows how the towers fell nobody really knows what is going on within the government.  I suppose it depends on how much of your mental energy you want to put into all of this stuff.  For me it's very little.

That's why you have an "opinion" as opposed to learned research.

To pry open and get a little look at what goes on in government, you could consider past declassified documents.

Perhaps you could grace us with an analysis of the two documents I posted earlier. Have you got the time or energy to read them?

If you don't like to read, two videos for your enjoyment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rp3P2wDKQK4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxz06SwfnlU
« Last Edit: 2011-11-29, 03:09:09 by ION »


---------------------------
Just because it has a patent application or is patented does not always mean it really works.
   
Group: Guest
This discussion is pointless for one big reason.  There is no evidence that the 9/11 people will accept as proof that it was Al Queda hijackers that took down the towers, and that there was no inside job.

I do not believe it was an inside job, as I find the physical evidence unconvincing and motives wacky (i.e. if the goal is to get into a war, make money, whatever, there are much less riskier ways to do this than to crash planes into towers), but I can tell you, as soon as people involved in the conspiracy start testifying as to the details of this conspiracy, I will start changing my mind.  What about you truthers?  What evidence would you accept that would change your mind?
   
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Posts: 1152
Here’s some questions I have about 9/11 and some opinions:

Within a day or less of the attacks on 9/11, we knew exactly who did it and why.    Why so quick, don’t investigations take time?  Our government seemed to have the answers right there at their fingertips, including the terrorists’ mug shots?   Makes you wonder doesn’t it?   Then when they reported Atta’s passport found in the rubble I knew it was a set up.  How ridiculous!   Where is the body then?  Let’s do some DNA testing; if the passport survived certainly pieces of the human body would survive!  Before anybody commits a nation to war don’t you think they should first find out who the enemy is beyond all doubt?    So no, I don’t trust their account of who did it because it was too quick and full of “you have to trust me” type of evidence.   Who really did it has not been proven, and in fact this whole war is just them telling you who the enemy is, who you should hate, how the enemy hates you, how he is fighting you, how he is plotting to kill you, and how well your government is protecting you from them, etc…. etc…,  all information filtered and coming through our military and government controlled media outlets.    Doesn’t that seem strange?    Fighting “global terrorism” is the biggest lie ever.   Under this banner the US invaded sovereign nations and killed innocent people and then label the resistance they encountered as terrorism.   How ridiculous, the whole world ought to be outraged, but wait they have fallen for it too.  Remember the coalition of the “willing”? how about the coalition of the deceived and bribed!   The US bribes Pakistan as we speak, billions of dollars in aid.  They hate our guts but love our dollars!    But I digress,
 
 My question still remains:  who really flew those planes, or controlled those planes into the buildings?      
  
If it was some crazy terrorists like they claim, then obviously our government knew about the attacks ahead of time but chose to let them proceed to accomplish their goals.  Or perhaps they under estimated their diabolical plan.  In the past hijackers would land the plane and demand something, but perhaps not this time.  Also, why would these terrorists be so willing to kill themselves by flying into a financial building in such a horrible and scary way?   I think the people that guided those planes in the buildings could not have been located in the cockpit, staring death in the face, no way!  These planes had to be remote controlled!    There is a government entity that records all electromagnetic emanations and they have the data but won’t release it. It’s national security!  I say it’s criminal evidence and the “books” need to be opened and judgment begin!
The exact reason for why the buildings fell and all that is peripheral to this conspiracy in my opinion, and I see it as a diversion sometimes especially when trying to say the buildings fell faster than gravity would dictate.
In conclusion, there is so much circumstantial evidence that points at a 9/11 conspiracy by our government.   The way the US leaders acted or not acted, the way the military acted, bogus phone calls like a son calling his mother from one of the flights and saying his whole name including his last name, how strange is that?    All these made up “facts” point to somebody trying to establish the fact that the planes were hijacked.   Ask yourself, why would somebody want me to believe that?   What do they want from me?  Could it be my willingness to sacrifice my sons and daughters and my freedom for their cause?   The rich who rule this world are not loyal to any one nation, they use whoever to get what they want.  They plunder the resources of one country and move on to the next.  Stop buying products made in other countries by people you don’t know especially from these huge international corporations, buy products made by your neighbors and fellow countrymen and give them the jobs!  Every nation should be self sufficient and trade at a minimum.  Globalization only means oppression, the more and far reaching a law, the more oppressive to the 49% that voted against that law but were outnumbered.   49% of 100 people is 49 people, but 49% of 6 billion people is 2.9 billion people who might not agree with a given law!    Just think about that.   Everybody ought to have their own little laws in their own little corner of the world and live as they choose!
   
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