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Author Topic: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk!  (Read 241138 times)
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MH said:

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Yet "the powers that be" that have taxed you into slavery and have noose around your neck allow you to go to the supermarket and get food and go to the gas station and gas up your car so that you can sit at your desk in warm comfort and make postings on the Internet.  Without the whole mechanism of society working and without the oil flowing within three weeks you would be cooking grass roots in a pot heated by wood from the neighbourhood trees that people are hacking down for fuel in order to not starve to death.  Something to think about.

You are right about this and I agree totally. I have made the same point when people bash the engineering establishment, yet have the luxury of the internet, computers, central heating, indoor plumbing and warm baths.

I totally appreciate the level of comfort our modern organized society has given to us, or more correctly that we have created for ourselves.

It all started out wonderfully, the American dream, invention, TV, accumulation of wealth by the middle class. Then something went wrong. Tassel shoe'd scoundrels learned how to take over the controls of the money system and operate the pump in their favor, so that there is a check valve that limits how much of the creative efforts and hard work of the masses is returned to them. Yes we have comforts, and those comforts are allowed for now to keep the machine happy and productive. Happy well fed worker bees gathering honey for the beekeepers, with a little leftover for creature comforts for the worker bees themselves.

Wall street insiders are able to make millions per day without ever producing a a brick, a potato, or a grain of wheat to benefit the world. They just push a few buttons on their computers and get a piece of the money flow, the surges that enrich them with their "check valves". To me this is parasitical activity and should be outlawed or regulated as it harms most of society. But even extreme levels of greed are tolerated and more so, revered, in our materialistic society.

I like to fantasize that people are basically good, generous and want all boats to rise on the tide. Should the thin veneer of "society" become unraveled it will indeed be a different world.

Some of us are here to search for the as yet undiscovered "Holy Grail" of physics, overunity, hence the name of this site. There are plenty of wind and solar and nuclear sites around for anyone to migrate to that does not share this dream.

I hope we can actively get back to that.

For those of us that do, I hope we can bring our creative minds together and dream this impossible dream, and perchance make it a reality with positive contributions.

If I have rubbed anyone the wrong way in this 9/ 11 debate, I sincerely apologize. Oftentimes I was only trying to inject a little humor into a very difficult subject where everyone has strong opinions, but the bandwidth of the typed word often masks the true sentiment and spirit.

On another note, MH has recommended I resign as global moderator, which is probably not a bad idea. I'll leave that to Peterae and POYNT and whomever to decide and to appoint someone else.



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Grumpy:

Yet "the powers that be" that have taxed you into slavery and have noose around your neck allow you to go to the supermarket and get food and go to the gas station and gas up your car so that you can sit at your desk in warm comfort and make postings on the Internet.  Without the whole mechanism of society working and without the oil flowing within three weeks you would be cooking grass roots in a pot heated by wood from the neighbourhood trees that people are hacking down for fuel in order to not starve to death.  Something to think about.

MileHigh

Don't defend them.

Yes, they do allow me to go to the grocery store, where the prices are inflated from their economic hand-outs.  Most of the food is grown from modified plant variants that are not natural, and their safety is questionable.  Most of the meat is feed-lot cattle with cancers, or poultry grown in deplorable conditions, jacked full of antibitoics to keep them alive ling enough to get to market.  Have you ever been to a feed-lot or a chicken farm?

Yes, they allow me to go the gas station, where I am taxed about 18 cents by both state and federal governments, on top of the $3.50 per gallon price.  This is not enough to collect all of my disposable income, so they invent the smog-check industry to froce me to pay to test my vehicles every other year and raise my registration costs because they cannot manage their budgets.

I  burn wood because my home is very old and was built before central heat/air.  I have a fireplace in the living room that heats half of the house, and thermostatically controlled electric heaters in the downstairs bedrooms and another electric wall-unit  in the laundry/atrium area that supplements heat to that end of the house.  I had propane for this before, but at $3.85 delivered, it is not practical for heating.  I currently use propane for hot water and cooking, but hope to get off it entirely in 2012.  Propane prices are tied directly to gasoline/oil price.

More than ever we need to strive to be more self-sufficient, to earn back our freedoms.
   
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More than ever we need to strive to be more self-sufficient, to earn back our freedoms.

Nothing is stopping you from getting a farm and living off the grid, if you do not like what modern society and its integrated economy is providing for you.
   
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MH

Please keep it "above the belt" with the professor.  

I respect his willingness to learn and his humbleness asking the simple questions.  A physics major does not mean a know it all.  So please leave the JouleThief alone, besides you and Ion already "stabbed" him on this.


He asked you a very basic question, and you got it wrong, so I can understand why he told you to go study.

For future reference, the equal and opposite force to that experienced by a falling mass, is the force that the EARTH experiences upwards.

EM
   
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MH

Please keep it "above the belt" with the professor.  

I respect his willingness to learn and his humbleness asking the simple questions.  A physics major does not mean a know it all.  So please leave the JouleThief alone, besides you and Ion already "stabbed" him on this.


He asked you a very basic question, and you got it wrong, so I can understand why he told you to go study.

For future reference, the equal and opposite force to that experienced by a falling mass, is the force that the EARTH experiences upwards.


EM

That is correct, EM -- you see how easy it is to find the third-law pair force when you understand the physics.

I guess what bothers me about MH is his attack-mode approach; yes, lack of humility -- can you grasp this problem, MH?

ION -- I hope that you will remain as a moderator; don't let MH get to you.  I know that put-downs can be hard on me and you, but we can proceed together with an open-minded (not empty-minded) approach to the energy puzzles that now confront us and make progress.

I have learned new respect through these discussions for ION, EMdevices, Peterae, Ramset, Dumped, Magluvin, Grumpy and several others.  
There is a certain willingness to care about people as well as "truth" that is essential here, and you have shown this willingness.  Thank you sincerely.
   

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Nothing is stopping you from getting a farm and living off the grid, if you do not like what modern society and its integrated economy is providing for you.

Correct.  I have a greenhouse that is half-completed.  Walls and roof are up, just need lighting and power for the water pumps (for hyroponics).  Right now I use it as a wood shed and the heat dries wood quickly.  I plan to use passive mass for heating (water barrels) and water mist with a fan for cooling, so a mostly passive design.

In the attached overhead photo, which is very old and before I actually moved here, the arrow points to the greenhouse, and the oval is the garden.  Lots more space (10 acres) to use.  A garden has to be fenced or the rodents (rabbits, squirrels, rats, mice) will eat everything.  Squash and root vegetables do very well.  Nightshade family plants have to be shaded or they get burned in summer.

I will eventually turn the entire long shed into one big greenhouse.

I have a couple of neighbors that are already off the grid entirely.  It can be done.
   

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G nice place, there's plenty of room to achieve a self sustaining existence.

In the UK we have a tax called housing tax, which for a small flat or house is about £1000 a year, mine is about £1400, this has to be paid no matter what, although if you are unemployed it is possible to get the gov pay it.

Do you have something similar in the US.
I am heading to efficiency myself, i plan to collect water from the roof, this gets filtered and stored for use in the toilet flush and washing machine.

energy is a real problem for me, a lot of houses have solar panelled roofs, these have been in effect subsidized by the gov, basically the person allows them of their roof, in exchange for 43p per kWh payment which goes to the company that funds the installation, this payment goes up with inflation for 25 years, the person in exchange for the use of the roof gets to keep the free electricity, the gov have just changed this nice 43p per unit and lowered it on the basis that solar panels are now cheaper.

I will soon be installing solar heating for hot water and possibly room heating, although not very good here in the winter it does still work a little.

Maybe we should switch to a Thermite based heating system, sounds cosily hot and a silver mesh and hydrogen peroxide based water heater  ;D
 
   

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Frequency equals matter...
@Peterae,
We have property tax.
If your property is paid off and and you are off the grid and you don't pay your taxes anybody an pay your taxes and own YOUR property for a dime.
Then the new owners can kick you off your land with the governments help. We are never really free.
Getting off the grid means nothing. Sorry. But to be free within the confines is not to be free. When this country first started you could own your land. Now we have been taxed to death.


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Hey G and Peterae

Looks like you are doin' it not just talkin' it. I have a 3 acre spread and large glass greenhouse, heat my home with mainly wood, but am forced to use some oil in the coldest months.  I like to burn the fires hot with well seasoned wood for a clean burn. My stove also has an afterburner. Good idea using the greenhouse to season wood, I'll have to try that.

EMdevices said: (regarding the professor)

Quote
I respect his willingness to learn and his humbleness asking the simple questions.  A physics major does not mean a know it all.  So please leave the Joule Thief alone, besides you and Ion already "stabbed" him on this.

I'm sorry EM, I was just asking for additional  proof which was not supplied. Not trying to stab anyone. When you make a video claiming 8X overunity using a DSO for all the measurements, which are very prone to error if not applied properly, I had to ask for a backup method such as normal Pin / Pout using shunt resistors and filtered metering.

I do respect the professor when he speaks within his area of expertise. As for the 8X overunity, everyone should be on top of this claim and scaling it up. Why is that not happening?

My own tests of JT's and blocking oscillators never showed anything near OU when measured with conventional filtered meters and shunts or with thermal methods. So I suspect the DSO measurements are somehow flawed.

I also respect his willingness to learn and his humbleness asking the simple questions.


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Hi gk

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f your property is paid off and and you are off the grid and you don't pay your taxes anybody an pay your taxes and own YOUR property for a dime.

I am not fully understanding what you say here, so if you have fully paid your house and land, and have no income due for some reason say retirement, do you still have to pay your property tax, if so how are you expected to do that.
   

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G nice place, there's plenty of room to achieve a self sustaining existence.

In the UK we have a tax called housing tax, which for a small flat or house is about £1000 a year, mine is about £1400, this has to be paid no matter what, although if you are unemployed it is possible to get the gov pay it.

Do you have something similar in the US.
I am heading to efficiency myself, i plan to collect water from the roof, this gets filtered and stored for use in the toilet flush and washing machine.

energy is a real problem for me, a lot of houses have solar panelled roofs, these have been in effect subsidized by the gov, basically the person allows them of their roof, in exchange for 43p per kWh payment which goes to the company that funds the installation, this payment goes up with inflation for 25 years, the person in exchange for the use of the roof gets to keep the free electricity, the gov have just changed this nice 43p per unit and lowered it on the basis that solar panels are now cheaper.

I will soon be installing solar heating for hot water and possibly room heating, although not very good here in the winter it does still work a little.

Maybe we should switch to a Thermite based heating system, sounds cosily hot and a silver mesh and hydrogen peroxide based water heater  ;D
 

We have a "property tax", which is levied by the local (county level) tax assessor and based on the value of your property, which can change but never go over what you paid for it.  This comes out to $3000 a year for me now and this is included in my mortgage and the mortgage company pays the tax.

I have wanted to collect rain water for several uses, but have not started since I am in what is called a "water trust".  You buy shares of the trust which entitles you to a percentage of the water available.  Rather than pay for what is used, you pay a maintenaince fee each month.  so, I have unlimited usage of water for $50 a month, but they really bitch at me if the usage is high.  Unless there is drought, which there never has been, they do not base quantity on your number of shares.  If they ever do, I have 10 shares out of 1000 or so.  I live in an arrid region though, and water is precious to those that do not have it.  Ideally, I want my own well, but they are several thousand dollars to drill.

My father has a friend that installs geo-heating systems with the long hose burried in the ground - pretty good idea but expensive to install.  

I have some great wind here, but they can get over 100mph and that is hard on a windmill.  Several people within a few miles have large windmills, but since they became subsidized, the prices went way up.   I have thought of building fake ones if i ever have an alternative power source, so when they come by to see how I am feeding so much power to the grid, they see a bunch of windmills. LOL!

Solar is not that popular even though we have many many sunny days - maybe the cost.  Some organization is planning a large solar plant about 70 miles from my home, but it will be expensive to setup - hope they don't cancel it.

So much mroe we can do rather than sit in front of the TV.

I've looked into selling power back to the grid but it dosn't seem set up for a small power producer yet.  I have some tentative plans to power various things around my home with alternative energy as I make it available.  Mains power runs to your breaker panel and then to each circuit.   You can disconnect each circuit and pwoer it separate, and also connect your expensive sine-wave inverter to the mains or only certain circuits.

As for owning your home, think of how fast you can pay it off if you have your own energy.  All of the money you spend on gas, electricity, and wood/oil can be redirected.  Imagine paying your home off in ten years instead of thirty.

Rather than debates over how the Puppet Masters pulled the strings, we need a breakthrough energy source.

Property tax is due twice a year (one tax, two half-payments)
   
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Property Taxes, and the related laws that allow for an auction of your home if you don't pay them, are an evil that needs to be rectified, IMHO

First of all, the current state budgets (in the US) are suffering in this economy because they are so heavily linked to property taxes.   When the value of this sector went down, so did their tax revenues which are a percentage of the value.

But the main evil is allowing others to take your property away if you don't pay, like GK mentioned.  Some states do not allow this, I think Arizona is one of them.  

If we analyze what property taxes cover, they are not all that bad:

1)  School District Funding   (80% or more)
2)  Fire Department Funding  (5 %)
3)  Police Funding (5 %)
4)  Bonds for a Project (road, lake, dam, bridge, etc..) (5%)
5)  Other services (5%)

I included the percentage that I think is representative from what I've seen in the past.    Who is opposed to education?  Not me, but I should say that this is no reason to take somebody's house away because they don't contribute to education, when perhaps they might not have any childred or have been in school themselves.   How about everybody takes loans for going to school?   Besides the highschools in the US are a disaster compared to other nations.  

The other "services" provided to us seem more necessary, but still we can find other ways to fund them.   Personaly, I think all revenue for the states and federal government should be derived from sales or income tax,  that way if you don't work or don't have a job youre not stressed about taxes.    Just my political view point.

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Totally agree with Grumpy:
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As for owning your home, think of how fast you can pay it off if you have your own energy.  All of the money you spend on gas, electricity, and wood/oil can be redirected.  Imagine paying your home off in ten years instead of thirty.

Rather than debates over how the Puppet Masters pulled the strings, we need a breakthrough energy source.

Exactly.
  My sons (I'm helping) are doing a place for the most part UNDERGROUND, so the temp does not go below about 40 F even when the outside air goes to -10 F on cold winter nights.  (Spot in a valley of the Rocky Mtns)
  Cool in summer also, about 65 F maximum u-ground when the temp outside can go to 95-100 F.  Pleasant.

Totally off-grid; solar-powered with batteries and inverters... Hoping for a non-conventional "breakthrough energy source."    Septic.  Water in a tank.  Pretty nice set-up, especially if the electric grid goes completely down, as in an EMP attack for example. 

Don't discount EMP warfare...
   
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Though my home is paid off, I pay over $7000 per year in property taxes. I am retired so this is a big chunk out of Social Security, more than a third. I live on the remainder.

Most of that goes to the school district, we have a fire house but only the state police.

Interestingly the schools are getting bigger with more high tech stuff, electronic blackboards, swimming pools, sports fields, stadiums etc, but the kids are getting dumber. Recently there were no books for one class because the school couldn't afford them. Yet the contracts for new additions continue and the salary hikes for the principal and other high profile school board members keeps going up.

Now they charge the kids "activity fees" of several hundred dollars if you want to play soccer for instance. Also the kids can be lifted out of a failing grade by cooperating and bringing in soap, paper towels, boxes of tissue paper etc, when these items are requested....extortion and bribery!!

My kids are all grown and out of the house, still i have to pay this school tax, though apartment dwellers pay a very small amount indirectly through their rent.

I have paid a few hundred thousand over the years, there is no reprieve except move out of the states, always an option. We'll see what the future brings.


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ION,

I'm sorry to have touched on a painful subject for you, but don't worry I'm with you.  I was so outraged when living in Florida years ago, for much the same reasons you described.   Then we also had the exorbitant mandatory owner insurance fees that excalted after the hurricanes of 2004,  so I just moved away.    Not always an option I know, some day I want to go back to FL if I can.

EM
   

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We can set 2012 as our goal for a working system, get serious about it, will it to happen!

The two that appear most viable are the Kapanadze Green Box system and the Spherics AVEC.  (Correa's plasma tube works per their reports, but I'd rather stay with coils.)

Everyone overlooks it since it is so simple, but a common spark gap produces a radiant effect that will charge capacitors - see Tesla two Radiant Energy patents.   Tesla used a metal reflector behind the gap.  How funny would it be if a bunch of spark gaps running off a bug zapper was OU?  LOL!!!  Don't forget the ground connection... 

As for 9/11.  We are all paying for it whether we acknowledge it or not, regardless of how it was done.  This event allowed the Puppeteers to further their agenda and our demise.


hmm...now where did I put that bug zapper?....
   
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Property Taxes, and the related laws that allow for an auction of your home if you don't pay them, are an evil that needs to be rectified, IMHO

Amen to that. Government is nothing but force too much of the time. Threatening letters, threat of auction, and $5,000 in lawyer fees if you don't pay.

They just re-valued my house (and others in only 2 areas of the county) at pre-bubble prices...raised my valuation and taxes 30 percent. Now paying close to $2000 annual. When I first moved here, it was $1100. 10 years later, paying almost $900 more, about 80 percent higher, and yet my house's actual sale price that I could get, has only gone up 10-20 percent max.

Thieves.

No one 'owns' property in America any more. In my county, they'll come and tow your car off now right out of your driveway now, if you owe property taxes on it and haven't paid in suitable time by their reckoning.
   

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Quote from: Grumpy
...
 
As for 9/11.  We are all paying for it whether we acknowledge it or not, regardless of how it was done.  This event allowed the Puppeteers to further their agenda and our demise.

hmm...now where did I put that bug zapper?....

That is just about the size of it.  Well said.



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Wow ION that's a lot of money to find.

Very interesting listening to you guys, our council tax is very similar, if you don't pay they send bailiffs to reposes your belongings, this can be your house, also we pay for rubbish collection, police and other things included.

We are all being shafted, well i guess that's how the system is setup, i am quiet interested in the system, there's some very interesting fights against the movement happening right now, people with little money are fighting back as best they can.

In the UK there a group of people calling themselves Freemen they are using very old English Laws to try and put up a fight against the current Laws, unfortunately their system only seems to stall the inevitable collection of taxes, very interesting watching them in action.

Basically when you are born you have a birth certificate, your parents are duped into thinking it's a good thing to register your birth, they go along and register, this creates a Bond in your name to which your whole life's worth gets tied to, you are now part of the system, every time you get a loan or a tax or a bill it's tied to the birth cert which is not a living soul.

Our Country the UK Ltd is a limited liability company, our police are privately owned and are a for profit company, same with most things.

In the US you have the same going on called A4V Acceptance for Value. and some say that if you call up a stock dealer he can locate your birth bond by giving him the number on it, this then shows the value of your bond. not sure how much of this is bull, there loads to read and see on youtube about it.

Solar heating is really good, much better than solar PV for efficiency, we also have ground source heat pumps, pump heat in during summer and take out during winter, DIY solar water heating is not too expensive really over here if you know where to buy the bits.

http://solarproject.co.uk/Panels.html

   

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No one 'owns' property in America any more. In my county, they'll come and tow your car off now right out of your driveway now, if you owe property taxes on it and haven't paid in suitable time by their reckoning.


In mine they don't toy with mobile items. My Alzheimer afflicted mother was thrown out of her house for back property taxes, for which she had receipts proving payment.  
It cost me 6k to hire a lawyer to put a stop to it. They did nothing fast enough so I showed up in the courtroom the day the 'buyer' was requesting police assistance on eviction.

I was being forcibly removed when the judge told the bailiff to bring me to the bench. He listened. I walked out with a stay order and a threat of arrest if I ever do that again.

After fighting the county clerk for 5 months she had a mishap with unpaid federal taxes and a personal vehicle that wouldn't run for more than a day each time it went into the shop.

I was never closer than 50 yards to her or her vehicle outside the courthouse O0

Bitch!

You are correct Professor. Don't discount EMP warfare.


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"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   
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Got a good laugh out of your summary, Grumpy:

Quote
As for 9/11.  We are all paying for it whether we acknowledge it or not, regardless of how it was done.  This event allowed the Puppeteers to further their agenda and our demise.

hmm...now where did I put that bug zapper?....

How true.
  Now if the sheeple ever become "bugs", the "bug zapper" might just be EMP... estimated 60-90% die off rate in the US following an EMP attack.  E.g., "One Second After" and "Lights, OUT" detail how this happens; mostly due to roving/hungry gangs -- and starvation.   An 1800's energy supply (without the grid) can only support an 1800's population, finally.

But -- we can do some things to prepare for EMP-induced shortages.  Like storing wheat, honey, salt, oats, canned goods, etc.  If everyone did this, we could probably survive while the grid and computerized-vehicle infrastructure were re-built.  Right now, the US -- and Europe -- are incredibly vulnerable to EMP warfare.
   
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EM:

Quote
He asked you a very basic question, and you got it wrong, so I can understand why he told you to go study.

That's complete crap.  This whole thing is nothing more than pretentious and ridiculous posturing by PhysicsProf.  "Go study your physics books and then come back and see me" is just PhysicsProf's attempt to "play" me in a vain attempt to make himself look like an authority figure.  There is the overt use of passive English, "If you understand Newton's Third Law bla bla bla...."  "If you don't understand enough to answer this simple question bla bla bla..."

Yes, I learned in Grade 8 that F = GM1M2/r-squared just like everybody else did.  When the apple falls towards the Earth the Earth falls towards the apple.  Wow Wee.  I am trying to have a technical discussion on the merits of his argument and he tries to pull off a childish stunt like that.  Like I am going to run to my physics books and then Dr. Steven Jones is going to tell me what he knows that I already know.  What a joke.

And it has nothing whatsoever to do with the collapse of WTC7.  Just a ridiculous waste of time.  And PhysicsProf is so uncomfortable with my technical points and rebuts to his arguments that he is trying to just ignore them and pass by them like a zombie.

PhysicsProf:

Are you getting the message loud and clear?  Any more buffoonery and you will be called on it.

MileHigh
   
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@Milehigh
Quote
That's complete crap.  This whole thing is nothing more than pretentious and ridiculous posturing by PhysicsProf.  "Go study your physics books and then come back and see me" is just PhysicsProf's attempt to "play" me in a vain attempt to make himself look like an authority figure.  There is the overt use of passive English, "If you understand Newton's Third Law bla bla bla...."  "If you don't understand enough to answer this simple question bla bla bla..."

Overt use of passive language, lol that's priceless, take a good look in the mirror buddy.

Quote
Are you getting the message loud and clear?  Any more buffoonery and you will be called on it.

Sorry dude you have no authority here and if you can't play nice I will have to spank you again, you know I hate it when you cry like a little girl but it's for your own good.




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To get back on topic, I'll express some doubts I have about the red chips found in the WTC dust samples examined by Dr Jones, et. al.,  Here's why:


1)   The uniform thickness of these red chips, across various samples, imply they are some sort of a coating or paint applied to a metallic backing.

2)   If they are part of an explosive, and that explosive went off, how come they are found unexploded or burnt up?  An explosion or rapid burn will burn off ALL the explosive.  

3)  If by chance some separate explosive did not go off, we should see various thicknesses of explosive and even pieces NOT attached to metal, perhaps pieces from the center of the bulk of the explosive "pack" that this material belonged to.

4)  If the inferred explosive was meant to be only a thin layer of coating, I don't see how that can damage a sturdy steel beam, it's impossible for even the most energetic materials at that small thickness, as these chips exhibit, so the explosive would have to be a much thicker "pack", but then the samples don't support this theory.

5)  I'm assuming "organic" material found in the red chips can come from a number of places,  perhaps even during the attack when jet fuel absorbs into the red coating.  (isn't jet fuel considered an organic compound?)   Lot's of answers that could have been explored.

6)  On the subject of "energetic" materials,  even wheat flower can burn rapidly and appear to blow up.  Most compounds and mixtures seem to be energetic to some degree or level if their combustion temperatures are reached, so can we say that wood chips are explosives?   How many remember the Hindenburg disaster?  The coating on that blimp is what burned rapidly ignited by static electricity, it had the wrong mixture of compounds, oops!


In conclusion, my general feeling is that the red chips are not very significant, and certainly should not be used to imply explosives were planted in the WTC buildings prior to the attacks.   This kind of leap of faith and conclusion, in my opinion, ends up obscuring the good science that was performed and casts the researchers into a "bad light".

EM
   
Group: Guest
EM:

I think that you made a lot of valid points and hit a home run.  My thoughts on that are that you really have to pull back to some basic science principles here.  I doubt that the dust from collapsed buildings in the past was ever examined on the level of detail as the WTC dust was.  If you assume that is true, then the simple fact is that nobody really knows what the dust is supposed to look like when you take a modern office building that is filled with office furniture and computers, etc, and put it through a "meat grinder" that grinds the building into dust.  It's amazing how they found very few pieces of intact anything in the debris.  In a clip a person working on the site says the largest piece of material he found was a piece of a telephone handset a few centimeters long.

Nobody really knows what you would expect to find in a modern ground-up office building.  Photocopiers, electronics, medical equipment, stored samples from the stock rooms of small companies, etc.  I think it would take years to even be able to make an estimate of what you would expect to find.

Therefore, it's very possible that the trace chemicals that everybody is getting excited about are "benign" in the sense that they were supposed to be there the whole time.  So it's a case of looking at something that may be perfectly normal, you just don't know, and flagging it as being out of the ordinary.

This is a case of "you know that you don't know something."  You know ahead of time that you don't have the data to determine what the dust is supposed to be like.  Because of this, you have to be very conservative with your findings.  You have almost no legs to stand on with respect to drawing conclusions about the composition of the dust.  It's sound science to approach the problem like this.

MileHigh
   
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