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Author Topic: 9/11 debate - enter at your own risk!  (Read 235042 times)
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It's turtles all the way down
This discussion is pointless for one big reason.  There is no evidence that the 9/11 people will accept as proof that it was Al Queda hijackers that took down the towers, and that there was no inside job.

I do not believe it was an inside job, as I find the physical evidence unconvincing and motives wacky (i.e. if the goal is to get into a war, make money, whatever, there are much less riskier ways to do this than to crash planes into towers), but I can tell you, as soon as people involved in the conspiracy start testifying as to the details of this conspiracy, I will start changing my mind.  What about you truthers?  What evidence would you accept that would change your mind?

It will all be revealed to you soon, but it is not my job to attempt to spoonfeed while the pablum of weak arguments run out of your mouth and down your cheeks.

You need to do some research, find out what Al Queda really is etc.


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Just because it has a patent application or is patented does not always mean it really works.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
EM, you are right on target, but be careful, the liars would like to steer you into the LIHOP camp. (Let It Happen On Purpose)

This is a safe camp where they can manipulste you into thinking it was a "failure of intelligence" that let it happen.

Just as the Kennedy assassination was also deemed a failure of intelligence in the Warren Commission, when you investigate yourself and claim your own incompetence, who can argue with that? mea culpa!

Quote
The rich who rule this world are not loyal to any one nation, they use whoever to get what they want.

You are right that it was not any single government but a cabal of profiteers that were involved.


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Just because it has a patent application or is patented does not always mean it really works.
   

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Frequency equals matter...
I will ressurect this post:
The towers had the Wallstreet backups of backups in them they are gone. No record of Morgan Stanley.
Building #7 had the records of Waco in it. What happened to Bldg#7? Was that an unadvertised terrorist attack?
Where was the plane in the Camphill crash?

There was a hand and lower arm found in the debris of the OK city bombing vehicle. A vehicle is not allowed to be parked unattended in front of federal buildings.
So what happened? Timothy told the passenger 'Wait here I'll be right back'. He walks around the corner and the truck gets detonated.
I miss stated before.
OKC had the records of waco. BATF, building #7 had the records of OKC. Bldg#7 was vacant that day of its demise. Vacant? No news of its schedule demolition? A fire on one of its floors? No mention of it in the 9/11 news reports? Makes one think. If'n ya don't yer missin sumthin.

Usually when one tries to follows the money they find the audits are gone.

Also the [One world religion] comes to mind. I say it is capitalism.


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I wonder...

Is there some relationship between the ideas of Moon landing hoaxes, pulling energy from nowhere and 9/11? (The Government is a shoe that fits all  ;) )

In the words of the now immortal Andy Rooney - What's Up With That?
--------------------

There ya go Ma'. I stuck my toes in and the water is way too hot!

I'll wait 'til Ol' Man winter visits before I risk the seething waters


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"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   
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It will all be revealed to you soon, but it is not my job to attempt to spoonfeed while the pablum of weak arguments run out of your mouth and down your cheeks.

You need to do some research, find out what Al Queda really is etc.

So I take it I was correct, and there is no evidence that will change your mind.   Really think about it.  What evidence, if presented, would change your mind?
   
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Ion:

I downloaded both and glanced briefly at the first.  I believe it may be about the early 60s False Flag operation where a general proposed flying a plane into a building as an option.  I think the premise was to create conditions for invading Cuba.  I will try to read them later.

I find it interesting that EM and Ion and perhaps others have made reference to the concept of terrorism as being something that is being used to manipulate our thoughts by the powers that be.  A cabal of profiteers can rake in giant bags of cash in glee while causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people and general misery and hardship for millions of people.  It's almost a comic book simplification in my opinion.

A response to terrorism is going to be imperfect no matter what you do.  But terrorism is real, you just have look at what's happened over the past 15 years.  There really are people that will sacrifice their lives for a cause.  It's been like that throughout history.  If in their minds they believe their cause is just then they are fighting with honour.  Look at the programed killing machines that attacked Mumbai in 2008.

But even if they are fighting with honour from their perspective, they are our enemy.  There are arguably objective standards for fighting with honour, and gratuitously cutting off someone's head and making a video clip of it is not honour.  Throwing acid in the faces of young girls trying to go to school is not honour.

It's too bad they didn't go into Afghanistan with overwhelming force to conquer every single square inch of the country just like things were done in World War II.  They should have gone in with 600,000 troops minimum.  The Afghanistan war would have been OVER in 2002.  I realize that this is pure speculation but it's at least a plausible scenario.

EM, the reason the government could identify the hijackers right away was by looking at the flight manifests and then looking up every single person and then narrowing it down by a process of elimination.  That would take less than 12 hours.  Plus they had the intelligence gathered by the people that made cell phone calls on the hijacked planes.  See, you are falling into a trap of sorts.  The answer was right under your nose and yet you chose to think that "the government must have known something in order to identify the hijackers so quickly."

We live in a less free society as compared to before 9/11 but it is still a free society.  Part of the price of living in a free society is that you can't know everything about the day to day life of the citizens of the society.  Another 9/11 type attack could easily occur again.  Conspirators could do everything by word of mouth and operate in overlapping three-person cells, etc.

For me, after you distill though all of the talk and debate, no mater what you do the terrorists/freedom fighters that want to kill you are real and dangerous.  Some of them will shoot you in the head and kill you if you don't agree to convert to Islam on the spot.  Talk about a loving God.  If there is only one God it must be the same one the Christians worship.  Not to say that the Christians and their churches haven't been severely tainted with the personification of evil themselves.

For me the end game is to pull out of Afghanistan and Iraq if you fail.  You tried and you failed, what can you do?  Really, the US is not there to save the world all the time.  Let the neighbouring Arab and Muslim countries take over the task or if Afghanistan and Iraq descend into anarchy, let them.  You really can decide to flip the switch if you want to.  It would be sad because chances are Afghanistan would rapidly deteriorate, Iraq might be at a point where they could pull through but nothing is certain.

But whether you like it or not, a quasi New World Order could not let an Afghanistan/Iraq "flu" destabilize lots of other countries in some sort of a 21st century domino effect.  The US, the EU, China, and other countries could and would prevent that from happening.

You never know what the long term results of the Arab Spring will be also.  Some of those countries could draw up constitutions separating church/mosque and state and create societies based on secular and humanistic values.  I can hope that and see it as being a positive thing, and someone in Afghanistan would like to kill me for just saying it and view it as an evil thing.

OK, I will shut up now...

MileHigh
   

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Frequency equals matter...
@MH,
I agree with what you divulge here. But it is the weeds and the weeds are real. Look up above the weeds and take notice of the gardener.
Lets just say evil gets bigger the farther one stands out.


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GK, good info I read that before.
Ion, Good point
MH, I agree with some of what you say. Regarding the flight manifests, for the longest time one could pull them up from the airlines own websites and none of the terrorists names were on there, at least that's what I remember.

All

Looks like we enjoy this topic more than free energy itself :)
   
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Mags
Thanks for that reading, this is serious stuff.  We need a serious change of direction in this country, better yet we need to limit federal powers and make the states more sovereign.  We look at other countries and smugly approve of their need for a revolution, when in fact we need one right here.   
   
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On the american dollar bill it says "in god we trust" if i remember correctly.
Does any body know if middle eastern countries have similar slogans in their currency?
Is is important?

Beware of those who tell you who to hate . You might believe them
   

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Why MileHigh presently is so resistant to
acknowledging anything other than what the
media "spoon feeds" the populace is not at
all surprising.  The techniques of "mind control"
are effective.  The programming begins at a
very early age.

It seems that, very unfortunately, MileHigh has
not had the opportunity to experience Military
style "behavior modification" or to participate
in any of the Military "special programs/operations."

It is very difficult for the "average" citizen to
comprehend what takes place daily in the interests
of "National Security."  Most in fact have no desire
to become aware of these machinations for the reasons
ION laid out earlier.

But the time is coming - sooner that most would imagine-
when it will be impossible to deny the truth.  Some will
find their having to accept what they've denied for so long
a fate worse than death itself.  It is going to get very ugly
worldwide as the AGENDA progresses to its finality.

Those who know will rejoice for the end is near!
The saga will have a very happy ending/beginning.


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“When an honest man realizes that he is mistaken, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest.” –Anonymous
   

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Who opened this can of worms  ;D

Building 7 came down with no plane, yet the explanation for the twin towers to come down was the impact by 2 planes, so surely then the building 7 should also have been hit by a plane to justify it's collapse also.

So what i am saying is what happened to the plane that should have hit building 7 LOL, could it be the one that the people on board took over and crashed into the ground, maybe the terrorists on the third plane forgot to set their alarm clocks or were foiled.

One thing for sure it was known in advance of building 7 collapsing that it was going to collapse, as there have been witnesses and film footage of people being warned it was about to come down.



   
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The owner of Bldg 7 was on TV that day and said "they" made the decision to "pull it down" or demolish it.  My question is, how long does it take to set up for such operation? Days? Weeks?  Hours?  Dr Jones is right, there were explosives around there that day.
   

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Indeed EM, i don't think it's physically possible to safely and accurately set explosives in a few hours, i just cannot imagine it being possible, but i am sure there must be a web page that goes through the details and time scales for a building that size.

and then theres the question why bring it down then and there, a full structural analysis to justify it being demolished should have be filed somewhere to justify the action, last time i checked things cant just be blown up LOL

   
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Quote
The owner of Bldg 7 was on TV that day and said "they" made the decision to "pull it down" or demolish it.  My question is, how long does it take to set up for such operation? Days? Weeks?  Hours?  Dr Jones is right, there were explosives around there that day.

The actual quote is "pull it."  Now the real question is what does that really mean?  I have never seen an interview with that gentleman after the fact where they asked him to clarify his statement.  There is a very very good chance that he is being misunderstood.  If something so conspiratorial had taken place why would he almost casually admit it on camera?  It doesn't make any sense.

Think about that in this context:  Some of the "truther" films, (some of which I think were linked to in this (original) thread) ask the question, "Were there any explosions?"  Then they go on and show about 50 instances where people are being interviewed on the street, cops, firemen, reporters, TV anchorpersons all talk about "explosions."  You get about 50 sound bites where people mention explosions.  Holy Crap!!!!  Must be true!!!

Talk about junk and who the hell is doing the programming here?  The "truthers" are making their best shot at brute force brainwashing here, Dumped would be proud.  Yeah, just pound the word "explosions" into the heads of the dumb masses and they will come?

Can anybody else see what junk pseudo truther-fascist crap is going on here?

My God, all of those people said "explosions" because they heard what sounded like an explosion.  But they actually have no clue if an actual explosion took place, none!

If 10 floors of a building suddenly drop down one floor and crash into the lower floor, I bet you that sounds like an explosion.

Have you ever seen a stress test on a piece of concrete where they put it into a giant industrial press and compress the concrete until it fails?  What happens when the concrete fails?  It basically "explodes" when this happens, but it is not the same as a true explosion at all.  However, it sounds like an explosion.  When all that concrete was crushed under high pressure it must have made exploding sounds when it failed.

Certainly the jet fuel could have and probably did explode.  Especially where there were pockets of air filled with fuel vapor.  Those were real explosions that sounded like explosions but they were due to the actions of the terrorist hijackers, not the government.

Dumped, I can assure you my "bullshit attempted mind-control RADAR" is very alive and kicking.  Perhaps you think my "programming" has skewed my perception.  However, the problem for me is that I look at what you are saying and to me you are a fully programmed drone doing the bidding of whoever programmed you.  You feel satisfaction and fulfillment in telling us that "the end is neigh," just executing your program that your puppetmasters have put into you.  But you can't see it because you are in your own fishbowl, just like you allege that I am in my fishbowl.

So who's wearing the fishbowl on their heads?  You or me?  I think time will tell.  I say nothing is going to happen, you say we are close to the Rapture (or whatever), but time will tell.

MileHigh

P.S.:  I think I may have read between the lines here in Dumped's statement and figured it out:

Quote
But the time is coming - sooner that most would imagine-
when it will be impossible to deny the truth.  Some will
find their having to accept what they've denied for so long
a fate worse than death itself.  It is going to get very ugly
worldwide as the AGENDA progresses to its finality.

Those who know will rejoice for the end is near!
The saga will have a very happy ending/beginning.

I think this one is about the alleged agreement to cull the population of the world because it is too high.  Six billion is way too many people and the powers that be have decided that about 500 million is a sweet spot.  With a population of 500 million and our current technological level then Man could inhabit the Earth and live a life of luxury and not put any excessive stress on Gia, the living biosphere.

So the gloom and doom from Dumped is about the upcoming mass murder of five and one-half billion people.  Am I right Dumped?  Do you have an escape-death ticket yourself?
   

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Quote
Certainly the jet fuel could have and probably did explode.  Especially where there were pockets of air filled with fuel vapor.  Those were real explosions that sounded like explosions but they were due to the actions of the terrorist hijackers, not the government.

Jet fuel does not explode,  to explode it needs to be mixed with a % of oxygen and then contained in a strong vessel before simultaneous combustion, it can be seen quiet clearly that when the plane hits, the fuel burns like slow molasses as the bulk of the fuel mixes with oxygen from the air, nothing violent here apart from the ability to start more fires, it's a bit faster than watching the Hindenburg burn
   

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"Pull it" pertained to 'pulling the plug' on the building. That meaning it could not be saved due to the damaged caused by the collapse of the twin towers some three hours earlier.

Body parts for testing to confirm the owner of the passport? Please.

The presence of those bodies could be smelled, tasted and coughed up but the likelihood of separating a single sample of one person for analysis was just plain poor. We were there the day after lending our ability to establish communication on a moment's notice.

I recall the first conspiracy theory I heard was the government had blacked out communications in order to hide facts. What a bunch of idiots! Nearly ALL of the communications abilities went down with the towers. My God! Even the fire/rescue/police commo was shunted to other systems incapable of handling the bandwidth. The only communication they had when we got there was short range radio-radio. Groups like ours setup the first sat up/down data links and were aided by other amateur radio operators around the continent to establish phone patches to victim's families.

Jet fuel doesn't explode? Granted, vaporized it is fuel for explosion. The same goes for concrete, steel, bodies, etc.

No further explosives were required.

Sorry, I'm just going through a data dump subroutine.

Who are the programmers, anyway? The government or the truthers? Sorry, I think I lost track.
------------

Sh!t. It doesn't matter anyway. In about twenty years from now the truthers will proclaim it was all staged on a movie set.
« Last Edit: 2011-11-29, 12:01:00 by WaveWatcher »


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"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   
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It's turtles all the way down
From MH

Quote
Talk about junk and who the hell is doing the programming here?  The "truthers" are making their best shot at brute force brainwashing here, Dumped would be proud.  Yeah, just pound the word "explosions" into the heads of the dumb masses and they will come?

Can anybody else see what junk pseudo truther-fascist crap is going on here?

How about pounding the word Al Queda into the heads of the dumb masses shortly after the towers fell. Also show over and over a rag tag Al Queda training camp, and repeatedly a picture of Osama with an AK47 and a grin, and there you have it folks, brainwashing at it's best. And don't forget Mohammed Atta.

You were also shown the ugliest photo shopped picture of Mohammed Atta over and over, but never the real shots of the guy. This CIA asset performed his puppet duties perfectly, but was never on that plane.

You can't have it both ways MH, a plane crumbling to dust (your words) when it hit the Pentagon, but somehow able to punch through box columns 2' x2' and over 3 " thick, close spaced, and leaving the perfect imprint of a plane right down to the wingtips in the building face. And the fires were so hot (sure), people were seen standing in the opening waving handkerchiefs for rescue shortly after the event

It is well known that a  large aircraft at 400 to 500 mph cannot fly in level flight less than 100 feet from the ground because of "ground effect", the pressure built up between the aircraft and the ground.  But those skilled LOL Al Queda pilots were able to perform wonderful maneuvers and defy physics in hitting the Pentagon

You should know better MH, that you don't just manually steer  an aircraft that large flying at those speeds and ever hope to hit a target. You've heard of PID and overshoot  involved in processes with large time constants?

And you don't believe you were propagandized? Here are some other photos of M Atta you were not shown on the day of Sept 11.

By the way, use that word  "fascism" more carefully before you throw it around, as it can be defined as the perfect alliance of military and state power to further the corporate interests of the state. Now where do we see this? MH?
In the truthers....I don't think so....guess again.

 I grow weary of you and your weak arguments MH, I once thought you were a relatively astute guy, but you posts on this issue bore the h*ll out of me for their mainstream "man on the street" intelligence level. You've got it all figured out but don't need to do any research because you already "know it all"

You have admitted you don't have the time nor interest in researching this issue, so I consider what you say as an "opinion"  of one (uninformed) who has not done his due diligence or his homework, and shoots very nicely and quickly from the Hip.
« Last Edit: 2011-11-29, 13:16:26 by ION »


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Just because it has a patent application or is patented does not always mean it really works.
   
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WW, were you there when Bldg7 was "pulled"? The official story is that it was demolished, and that statement was made after the fact.

Peter, yes, nobody just blows up buildings on the spur of the moment.

MH, yes, the "explosions" heard by the masses as the main towers fell are most likely structural materials snapping. I have a hard time with the explosive theory for the twin towers, but not Bldg 7.  But I could be wrong

Ion, so true. They flashed their pictures on TV day and night along with Bin Laden, talk about "trial on the news" who needs a court room anymore and cross examination when we have our dedicated "intelligence" community looking out for us.  That's sarcasm in case anybody is confused.  
   
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Milehigh, never argue with idiots.  They will bring you down to their level and then win with experience.
   

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tExB=qr
I am missing the point of this thread.

There will always be covert, shadow deals being made in our goverments and companies. This isn't "Heaven" that we live in.
The sad fact is the "we", "the people" have allowed this to happen.
   

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tExB=qr
Say we get rid ofthe Federal Reserve and go to "greenbacks".  What prevents the US Government from printing as much as they want, effectively taxing "the people" right into inflation?  Every fiat money system has failed in the past. 

   
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Milehigh, never argue with idiots.  They will bring you down to their level and then win with experience.

Carefull with the name calling, we are having a serious debate here.   I don't think you want to call Dr Jones, Ion, Peter, GK, WW, or even myself Idiods, do you?    (anybody else who wants to be included in my list, just say so  LOL   :P)

EM
   

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I am amazed at how little people have been hearing about the occupy movement and whats been happening with this.
In London they have claimed an empty ex bank building and opened it for public 'The people' i wonder how long before they get evicted from it.

Very little main stream media coverage over here in the UK, no one i have spoken to so far have even heard of the occupy London group, and it's right across the UK and building up in force i think.

One of us guys better hurry up and get a FE dev working, because during the collapse of iceland, one of the conditions of the IMF lending money was for outsiders to be able to scoop the Iceland energy companies up and privatize them, this also happened when Ireland was bailed by the IMF.

I suspect the same will happen in Spain/France/Italy/UK and more

What happens when all power production is under one wealthy group of controllers, maybe this is the way they are paving for the electric future we will need to stop relying of fossil fuels.
   
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