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Author Topic: Novel Approach To The Bessler Wheel  (Read 10252 times)
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INTRO

Thus far it seems many of the designs of Bessler wheels seem to aim at creating an imbalance in the wheel such that one side is heavier than the other (overbalance).

There is an alternative approach that does not require this imbalance to spin the wheel and relies on angular momentum that can be stored in a gravity attracted weight.

This approach does not use  levers , springs, or the opposition or attraction of magnets

The only moving parts are the weights and the outer wheel.

It may find just enough energy to reguage from an influence of the Aspden effect.

I have played with this design on paper since 2006, but have not built it. Been working on too many other ideas alongside it. I have seriously refined it to a new embodiment that bears no resemblance to the rough sketches I will be posting. They are being posted to get the idea out as a first cut.

I hope someone here can simulate it or actually build it. I hope to do this very soon.

Ever since playing with flywheels, gyros etc as a very young person, I was convinced that there was considerable energy stored in such devices. Of course, this is common knowledge. Eric Laithwaite and others were convinced there was more to this spin than appears in textbooks. DePalma claimed anomolous time and gravitational effects. Aspden made further interesting claims about rotating devices with and without magnets, and some rather amazing discoveries.

I was once lucky to procure a three phase electrically driven US Navy gyro with a 20 pound tungsten rotor that ran in a vacuum at dangerously high speed. Playing with this monster was scary and awe inspiring.

I began to consider that there may be a factor overlooked in the laws for falling objects, that if the gravitational energy were stored in rotational energy, the aether entrainment might slightly tip the balance in favor of a bit more energy and allow reguaging.

Allowing gravity to integrate it's energy over a longer time period than the normal acceleration of 32 feet/sec^2 for falling objects might give a slight gain. If this gain is continually integrated over time, we can have accumulation of torque.

I had been playing with the Bessler wheel for many years, trying to crack it.  After many clever but unsuccessful builds, I was convinced it would require thinking way out of the box. So, rather than trying to shift weights around to provide an out of balance condition, I mused about this idea:

Imagine a set of planks or rails set so that the center area is open. The ramps are fixed at an approximate 45 degree angle. A flywheel is allowed to roll down the rails, it's axle resting on the rails and it's rotating mass occupies the space between the rails.

The large flat circular disc like weights (flywheels or gyros) are allowed to "spin up" due to the force of gravity  as they roll down a the "fixed" inclined plane starting in the fourth quadrant at a tilt angle of 45 degrees.

Note well: The rails do not rotate with the casing wheel !!

The rails can remain fixed at 45 degrees, even though the outer casing wheel spins by bringing the rail supports out through axles concentric with the casing wheel through a hollow axle and on each side. In this manner the inclined angle can be adjusted externally.

The large spin up might be accomplished because the flywheel rolls on its axle by means of  the pair of rails.
 
Considerable angular momentum is imparted to the flywheel in this manner , as opposed to having the flywheel roll on its outer edge toward center of the casing wheel. In the latter case the flywheel will roll more quickly but not gather much angular momentum.

 In this way, gravity has converted falling energy into rotational energy as the flywheel is making it's way to the center of the wheel. At the center of the casing wheel it is suddenly stopped by a brake or wedge shaped chamber.
 
At this instant,  it must transfer all of the accumulated angular momentum of the flywheel to the casing wheel. This is a large torque force or "kick".

 After the flywheel has given up it's spin energy to the outer casing wheel,  it is recycled to the starting position by the inertia of the casing wheel.There are many possibilities for this idea since we are storing gravitational energy in spin energy which can be used at any point in the cycle that we desire.

At any point that we decide to stop the flywheel rotation,  and if the "brake" is the outer casing wheel, it's spin momentum will have to be transferred to the outer casing.

 With this technique, we are integrating gravitational force over time.

 I know, the laws of physics state that the accumulated rotational energy will be exactly equal to the objects falling energy, but now we have greater control over the timing and use of the gravitational energy and have not yet taken into account the "Aspden Effect". (see paper attached)

 There are many embodiments of this approach that can be fashioned into a Bessler type wheel.

 The next version is a variation of this approach.

A variation on the above  idea with more detail:

   Imagine a fixed set of rails or planks set at an approximate 45 degree angle within the casing wheel.  The upper left of the rails is approximately at the 315 degree point (fourth quadrant), the lower right of the rails is at approximately 135 degrees in the second quadrant.

The rails are fixed to this angle and do not rotate with the casing wheel.

This is accomplished by a set of concentric axles that pass through the center of the casing wheel axle, which is hollow, such that the incline angle of the rails can be adjusted on the outside of the casing wheel.

 The rails have a open center area along their length such that the width of the stone flywheel can find clearance while the much smaller axles of the flywheel rest on the rails.

Since the axles of the flywheels are much smaller than the outer diameter, the flywheel will roll on it's axles starting slowly and gathering momentum, storing all of the normal gravitational attraction energy into high speed rotation of the flywheel by the time it exits the rails.

At the start, one of the flywheels roll down this inclined plane on it's axle gaining considerable rotational momentum, spinning clockwise.

 It now drops off the lower edge of the inclined rails and transfers all of it's clockwise gravitational spin momentum to the inner wall of the casing. It will actually try to climb the inner wall of the casing wheel until it transfers all of it's rotational energy to the casing. As it tries to climb the wall, it is in effect pulling the inner wall of the casing wheel down in the second quadrant at approximately 135 degrees causing clockwise rotation of the casing.

Rotational torque energy is multiplied based on the ratio of the flywheel outer diameter versus inner casing wall diameter. When it has given up it's rotational energy, "stops" carefully positioned on the inside wall of the casing rim catch or scoop the flywheel for recycling to the 315 degree point (fourth quadrant). Now imagine two of these flywheels circulating in this manner with perhaps an extra one rolling down the ramp .

How does the "Aspden Effect" play into this?

 Enough for now, I'll address that next time.
« Last Edit: 2010-01-19, 13:24:02 by ION »


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Hi Ken

Thank you for reviewing this again. I made a few corrections and attached one of Aspden's papers, but there is another where he describes the effect with just a large flywheel.

Whether or not his experiments were carefully done, I do not know. But I will at some time try to duplicate them.

You may be right in saying the design shown will not work. It was meant only to demonstrate an alternative approach and get people thinking in this direction.

The main axle is hollow and allows another concentric axle to fix the ramps angle, but neither axle goes all the way through the wheel.

 I have another design based somewhat on this approach that fulfills all of the criteria you mention. There is more to come.

By the way, I think your design has merit and I may try to build it at some point. Gathering parts now.

Regards...ION
« Last Edit: 2010-01-22, 20:29:56 by ION »


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Ken

You are right, a stationary ramp will not work. So how do you make the ramp as long as possible and make it spin in reaction to the weights?

Maybe one picture is worth a thousand words. I'll post that next.

Regards.....ION


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Hi Ken

Bessler came up with this MT43 design in one of his books. The spirals are each 3/4 cycle and do not make use of some very important features of a ball descending a ramp.

It is possible to make the spiral continuous with as many winds and balls as we like. The ball that exits the ramp will be spinning very fast, maybe fast enough so that a single ball can recycle. All other balls in traction with the ramp will impart some of their momentum to it. This could be very important factor to aid in recycling a ball.

Sorry for the light sketch...but the idea is to allow the high speed of the exit ball to climb a ramp in another layer 1/4 cycle from 6:00 to 9:30 then it rolls gently back to center in the first spiral layer.


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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
I believe that when someone conjures an idea for a mechanism that allows the wheel to operate in either rotational direction, they will have cracked the secret.

Think symmetry.

Great work guys!

.99
   
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Poynt: Agreed,  a wheel that runs in both directions would be  the ticket. Bessler's first few wheels were one direction only. My guess is we have to get the concept first, get a single direction wheel running, then modify it for bidirectional operation.


Ken

Yes,  a lever operated by the inertia of the spiral  could possibly recycle one ball. I had considered this but wanted to start with something simple. Also ball "E" will have considerable rotational speed built up when it enters the stationary ramp. I hate to lose all that stored energy.

I began also considering that the exit ball could gently switch tracks in the outer loop to another chamber behind the main spiral that spins with the spiral. This chamber could have a short spiral maybe 3/4 turn that brings the exit ball back to center. Energy would be additive in this scenario. Why? because as the ball loses its forward momentum climbing the tighter spiral, it is giving the wheel a big push in the right direction. With all of it's spin energy transferred to the wheel, it should arrive at center with zero spin. This will be a function of the pitch of the return spiral ramp

Notice that all the balls will probably oscillate a bit around the gravity line (line from the center of the spiral to the center of earth) The gravitational pull on the balls causes them to run down the ramp, but they actually remain in a straight line yet spinning , it is the ramp that runs under them. They of course accumulate spin, and they spin progressively faster as they reach the outer loops.

They are like  "a large herd of fat, lazy,
    plump horses wanders aimlessly"


"Aimlessly" in that although they are oscillating a bit to and fro, they do not seem to be going anywhere. They are all in a straight line heading for the exit.

It would be interesting to substitute a large magnet to replace gravity. Then this engine could operate horizontally.

Regards...ION
« Last Edit: 2010-01-23, 14:06:44 by ION »


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Hi Ken

Quote
However the ascending ramp would have to traveling slower than the outer drum. If they were traveling the same speed the weight would just stay where it was and spin.

I believe they can be coupled and traveling the same speed

I'm thinking the pitch of the ascending ramp will determine the energy transfer coefficient, ideally as I said, arriving at center with no spin left.

We could use 1/2 or one full turn of the wheel to gently switch tracks to the ascending ramp, then with tighter pitch it begins transferring energy as it rises.

The real trick in this design is that we have stored energy in the spin of the ball so that it can use all of this energy to ride the ramp back up to center, while at the same time giving the wheel a push in the right direction due to traction of the ball on the ascending ramp.

Most physics books that show ball and ramp formula consider the ramp as fixed, therefore part of the gravitational vector is lost. If the ramp can also move we have reclaimed the lost vector.

Wish I was good at WM2D to simulate this, but I doubt it would model "Aspden Effect"
« Last Edit: 2010-01-23, 14:32:44 by ION »


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hi Ken

You can visualize it as a continuation of the main spiral, but in the rear chamber. Further it spirals towards the center in maybe one turn or less.

There is no drop off of the outer ball, rather when it reaches the outermost loop of the main spiral, it is gently persuaded to follow a path to the rear chamber, which has a tighter pitched spiral towards the center, just a continuation of the main spiral in another layer and spiraling towards center rather than away from center.

We can have as many descending balls as we like based on the pitch of the main spiral. I see only one ball at a time on the ascending spiral. The ratio of descending balls to ascending ball, would be the pitch difference of the two spirals, maybe biased slightly in favor of running. Speed would continually accumulate until rolling friction or loading becomes the limiting factor.

I'll work up a few sketches.


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Hi Ken

I'm thinking a final design would use flywheels with mass concentrated on the periphery and ramping down and up on their axles rather than edge, although this could be traded off if a torque conversion is required.

This whole exercise was meant to demonstrate that an overbalance wheel is not the only way to create circular motion by a falling weight.

One could argue that a grandfathers clock uses falling weight to create circular motion, or even a simple weight on a rope wrapped around an axle.

This attempt was to create inertial storage in a plurality of internal oscillators, and possibly use "Aspden Effect" to advantage.....if it even exists in reality.

This effect would seem to say that a spinning objects inertial mass decreases slightly due to some internal alignment of atoms? or the ether flow?........to be tested.

I hope it has opened a few eyes to other possibilities.....regardless of whether it will work. Perhaps it is just my foolish persistence in folly while others might see more clearly.


ION
« Last Edit: 2010-01-24, 18:22:59 by ION »


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Okay here's the rough sketch promised. It is a clockwise turning wheel with a spiral of five convolutions. The figure to the right is the cross sectional view of the wheel. Axles are attached to the outside faces, but do not go through the wheel....this is left open for the recycling hole between the front and rear chambers.

Four and one half convolutions are in the front chamber and the one half convolution is in the rear chamber.

There is a hole at the center partition between the chambers whereby the ball scooped by the 1/2 turn can be recycled back into the front chamber.

Try to visualize the half turn spiral scooping the ball as it moves from the 6:00 position, through 9:00 then by 12:00 the ball has been repositioned to the center of the back chamber where it is ready to roll into the front chamber.

Ball "D" has considerable spin velocity in the clockwise direction when it is  redirected to the back chamber. As it is being scooped it is also by traction  trying to climb the 1/2 turn as the 1/2 turn also moves in a scooping motion beneath it. Inertia of the overall wheel will assist the recycling process.

The spin torque of all balls add to the effective torque of the overall wheel.

To summarize, the pull of gravity is operating in a straight line exerting a downward pull on balls A,B,C,D. The front chamber spiral is the equivalent of a long ramp that has been folded into a spiral. The balls are always wanting to roll downhill, the spiral reacts to this by turning clockwise.

The balls accumulate spin velocity as they reach the last turn of the spiral. At this, point one at a time they are redirected to the rear chamber, which having a tight pitch spiral of 1/2 turn recycles the ball to center. In this design, a ball is recycled once every revolution.

Mathematically this might all be a null, except for the missing ingredient: "Aspden Effect"

Chew on this for a while....enjoy.
« Last Edit: 2010-01-26, 14:16:35 by ION »


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Greetings ION

 I have played with that approach before. Here is the version I came up with.

Greetings Ken I finally signed up.
   
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Hi AB Hammer

Glad to see someone else has speculated along these lines.

 I like the way your unit smoothly recycles.

I wonder if a slice with only two balls will develop enough stored torque to allow recycling, but this is to be experimented with....who knows.

Thanks for your input...greatly appreciated.

Regards...ION



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Edgar Cayce gave a description of a motor that utilized two fluids with different specific gravity.

http://keelynet.com/interact/archive/00000260.htm

Quote
Not perpetually, but once started could be kept in motion by created energy of its own source.


Hmm - an eccentric drum with cams, sprangles, and cams...

What does Edgar mean in the following excerpt?

Quote
This an expansion of the same forces as are created in the drum when the
expelling of the gravity in same in elements create that activity set in
motion, gathers from the same elements that create energy and force,
see? That's a good one! That's why we have wind - that's why when the
sun's rays are passed that point on the sphere known as Capricorn, or
those of the opposite point, we reach that radial center as is seen from
the sprangle on drum where each element takes on its activity in both
down and upward movement, or as is more crudely given in how that one
may by a similar motion continue to keep a pan, hat, glass, or any
object with a convex surface continually in air, as long as that
particular motion is kept in action.

He tells us how to keep it going.

EDIT:

I think he is referring to cavitation when speaking of fluids with different specific gravity - hint hint?
« Last Edit: 2010-01-27, 18:21:07 by Grumpy »
   
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ION

The way I looked at it is, that it would take at least 3 layers to even have a chance. Of course in this game there are no guarantees.
But I wonder if the vortex had another meaning like reaction paths.

Alan
   
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Hi Smudge

In order to not derail Brad's thread, I gave this thread a bump because the ideas you mentioned on the Brad's buoyancy  thread regarding a Bessler Wheel using stored angular momentum of a spinning weight  were similar to my line of thinking on the subject. I offered two crude approaches to the subject at the beginning of this thread, one used a weight running down a ramp inside the wheel, the other used a spiral that allowed a number of weights to gain angular momentum as they rolled down a spiral "hill". These weights were recycled to the center of the device by climbing a half turn spiral in a separate chamber.

My drawings were scanned pencil sketches, I apologize for the lack of clarity. I should redo them in TinyCad when time permits.

Let's discuss these ideas further as I am mostly believing Bessler's wheel actually worked as he claimed. I'd like to see your ideas in more detail, and would like to pass a thought experiment by you for comment regarding gravity as a source of energy.

Regards


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Hi ION,
Hadn't realised this thread existed.  I too have played with gyros, seen Laithwaite's lectures and even corresponded with the great man.  Of interest to me is the external nature of inertial forces, inertia is not an internal property of matter.  It comes from some sort of interaction with the aether, or rather with the virtual particles that comprise the aether.  We can summon up external force by accelerating within the aether and that force opposes the acceleration.  We can summon up an external torque by precessing a spinning gyro, and that explains it's magical balancing properties.  During that process there is no loss of energy in the gyro flywheel except by friction.  The big question is can you use that external torque to do work, create an angular motion, and still retain the flywheel energy.  I think you can.  So my idea was to gain angular energy by letting a flywheel slide down a ramp just as you describe.  Gain almost the full mgh energy stored as flywheel energy with only a small portion as 1/2mv2 linear energy (it comes off the ramp at low velocity).  After the flywheel has come off the end of the ramp to now sit inside the big wheel it is still spinning (needs a capture system that allows this).  Then do some sort of 180 degree precession, so as to impart an angular force to the big wheel (because of conservation of angular momentum, the reversed flywheel must impart a torque to the big wheel).  Note the flywheel is still spinning.  Now bring that spinning flywheel up to the top and let it fall down the rack again, and it gains more energy.  We can now end up with a flywheel energy greater than mgh.  So a system with a plurality of flywheels can be externally driven to a point where the stored energy in all the flywheels is sufficient for it to self run.  Note this does not require any exotic effects such as Aspden discovered. (I have also corresponded with Aspden, a great pity he and Laithwaite are no longer with us).
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Here is a drawing of a device that may satisfy some of Smudge's prior posting with a slightly different "twist". I'm sure partzman, Brad and Grum will also enjoy it being good mechanical guys.

I was thinking about a very long threaded axle with a weight that must rotate to find it's way to one end of the axle from the pull of gravity. I finally figured out a simple mechanism  to transfer the accumulated high angular momentum to reset the process. Hope the drawing spells it all out.

enjoy
Regards


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Quote
We can summon up an external torque by precessing a spinning gyro, and that explains it's magical balancing properties.  During that process there is no loss of energy in the gyro flywheel except by friction.

Not true, sorry.  If the precession is used to drive any load, even the "lifting" of the mass of the spinning gyro ala Laithwaite, it comes at a cost of the stored energy of rotation of the gyro rotor, over and above frictional losses.

This can also be seen in reverse, viz the "dynosphere" or "Powerball" wrist exerciser things, which speeds up when its precession is forced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTQR2nwMABs

The apparatus in the photo below was designed and constructed to examine, with actual measurements, these and other phenomena associated with gyros in forced and unforced precession. Parameters monitored include rotor RPM and d(RPM)/dt, "nod angle" and its rate of change, precession rate (can be passive or driven externally), centrifugal force in the radial direction (force gauge is offscreen to right, nod pivot is on a radially oriented linear bearing mount) and a few other parameters such as the force input required to drive precession faster than its "natural" rate. The data from sensors is collected and logged in the wifi Arduino module and sent wirelessly to a web-page interface for reduction.





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Hi ION.

Hmmm, an old " Yankey " screwdriver would make a nice nut and thread for your idea, alternatively parts from a " spinning top " ?

What's the concensus on it working?

Cheers Graham.


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Hi ION.

Hmmm, an old " Yankey " screwdriver would make a nice nut and thread for your idea, alternatively parts from a " spinning top " ?

What's the concensus on it working?

Cheers Graham.

Hi Graham

This version does not use precession as the weight transfers nearly all it's angular momentum before the weight is flipped over to the next start.

Yes, the Yankey screwdriver mechanism would be neat to include, but we would have to incorporate a rather large one. For lowest friction I was thinking ball bearings should be used to provide a very smooth descent on the screw ramp.

At this point it is conjecture, with Smudge and myself musing there might be some small gain by incorporating spin integration of the gravitational pull rather than pure free fall.

Thanks for looking and commenting.

Regards


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Hi Graham

This version does not use precession as the weight transfers nearly all it's angular momentum before the weight is flipped over to the next start.

Yes, the Yankey screwdriver mechanism would be neat to include, but we would have to incorporate a rather large one. For lowest friction I was thinking ball bearings should be used to provide a very smooth descent on the screw ramp.

At this point it is conjecture, with Smudge and myself musing there might be some small gain by incorporating spin integration of the gravitational pull rather than pure free fall.

Thanks for looking and commenting.

Regards

Perhaps viewing this man's work as he uses various simulators might be of some help!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFgMKh5mUmE&feature=youtu.be

Regards,
Pm
   
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partzman

Thanks for the link.

At the height of my modelling Bessler's wheel, I did most of my work in "Working model 2D". I did play a bit with "algodoo", but preferred some of the tools in WM2D. Maybe "algodoo" is better, I wouldn't know at this point.

see here: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=3429.msg60215#msg60215

The basis for the design I posted was Distinti's notion that mass consumes aether at the rate of 11000 m/s and that is the cause for gravity. If this is true then we must work within the perpendicular aether flow.

I believe it is for this reason that a ball rolling down a large incline is not the same as the machine design I posted in Reply #16

http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=129.msg67625#msg67625

 which keeps the  perpendicular flow in line with the spinning weight. The ball on a ramp has a lateral component which does not allow for the accumulation of internal spin energy, only the normally observed gravitational effects.

Hope that clarifies the difference.

Regards



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