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Author Topic: The FLEET DIY KIT  (Read 52565 times)
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Lawrence,

Could you send me one of your kits?

This circuit should be tested properly. Judging LED intensity is NOT a reliable means to determine if the device is OU or not. It's not even reliable to get a rough idea because the LEDS require next to no power to light them.

This has been explained ad nauseam.

It's time to put this to bed.

There are other methods, Poynt, but I don't know why you say this so vehemently.  I tend to disagree, because I have been using photo-calorimetry for months now and I find it gives reliable results. 

I have been using LED bulbs, also incandescent and CFL bulbs and LEDs in the light box which I have previously described.   

Assuming I use the same light box and the same LED's in the light box, what is wrong then with the comparative PHOTO-CALORIMETRIC method Lawrence describes?

Quote
(1) Have two identical DC Power Supplies.

(2) Use one to power a set of LEDs directly.  The result should be close to the rating such as 0.2w per LED for full brightness.

(3) Use the other to power a similar set of LEDs via the FLEET circuit.  Place the two sets of LEDs side-by-side and compare their brightness.

(4) If needed, increase or decrease the Voltage of the DC power supplies until the two sets of LEDs appear to have the same brightness.

(5) Then compare the DC Power values from the two DC Power Supplies.

HOWEVER, I do agree that other methods should ALSO be applied.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Using LEDs and a photometric measurement is not very definitive. This has been explained several times, yet people keep using the method.

What most people don't understand is that LED's are very non-linear loads. You would have more reliable results using a pure load resistor and placing a thermistor on the load. Then use this load for the DUT and control, and compare.

However, properly using the appropriate oscilloscope and associated probes is the best way to get a definitive answer. I am going to do this measurement and the issue will be put to bed.

Frankly, many members here (including myself) are getting quite tired of seeing unsubstantiated claims being made based on blocking oscillator circuits. It's time for this to stop.
   
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Using LEDs and a photometric measurement is not very definitive. This has been explained several times, yet people keep using the method.

What most people don't understand is that LED's are very non-linear loads. You would have more reliable results using a pure load resistor and placing a thermistor on the load. Then use this load for the DUT and control, and compare.

However, properly using the appropriate oscilloscope and associated probes is the best way to get a definitive answer. I am going to do this measurement and the issue will be put to bed.

Frankly, many members here (including myself) are getting quite tired of seeing unsubstantiated claims being made based on blocking oscillator circuits. It's time for this to stop.

I will be interested in seeing your results.  However, it does appear that even without measurements you have already reached a conclusion.  (Hopefully this is not the case.)
   
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When an organization using LED lighting managed to cut its electricity bill by 90%, it does not care about the debate.

Here is the experimental picture from the Demonstration Center.  Poynt99 can tell the various parties not to believe their eyes and the DC voltage and current readings.  It is up to them to believe Poynt99 or their electricity bills.

Once a scientist has played with and developed the skills in tuning, he will appreciate the lead-out energy at Tseung Resonance.  He will believe his eyes, his ears, the multimeter readings and the oscilloscope data and analysis.  He will ignore the repeated "advice" and the "experience" of the "know it all" experts.

May the Almighty open the eyes of the Blind.
   

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Buy me some coffee
Lawrence

You are very close to being banned at OUR and here's why

You quote your device as being Overunity, it clearly is not, it may well drive LED's more efficiently but it does not drive them for free.
You keep quoting company names, this is in effect promoting companies and make money from such devices, we work open source here for free.
You seem to have taken the Jule Thief and all of the open source work that has gone with it and labelled it as your own and then placed a trade name on top of it IE Fleet this goes against open source work.

I am sure Poynt would put things totally different to me but this is all wrong for OUR and your existence here.
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Your first erroneous assumption Lawrence is that you are actually driving the LEDs at their rated 0.2W each. From the picture,it sure does not appear they are being driven to full power.

Send me your circuit and I'll show you that there is little difference between driving the LEDS with straight DC and your circuit.

I still have your little unit you sent me some time ago, the test could be done with that also.

And regarding your oscilloscope measurements? I've yet to see you use or interpret your scope properly.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
When an organization using LED lighting managed to cut its electricity bill by 90%, it does not care about the debate.

Here is the experimental picture from the Demonstration Center.  Poynt99 can tell the various parties not to believe their eyes and the DC voltage and current readings.  It is up to them to believe Poynt99 or their electricity bills.

Once a scientist has played with and developed the skills in tuning, he will appreciate the lead-out energy at Tseung Resonance.  He will believe his eyes, his ears, the multimeter readings and the oscilloscope data and analysis.  He will ignore the repeated "advice" and the "experience" of the "know it all" experts.

May the Almighty open the eyes of the Blind.

Point #1 It is a well established fact that using LED lighting can cut electric bills as opposed to using incandescent lamps, This was known before L came on the scene and put his name on items invented by others. Nothing new here.

Point #2 The experimental pictures demonstrate NOTHING. and one should use caution in posting such dribble. It is not science.

Point #3 The resonance that is referred to is well known to those skilled in the art, and appears new to the uninitiated.

Point #4 Should read "Once a scientist has played with and developed the skills in tuning, he will appreciate the  amount of smoke blown around by the unskilled that are misinterpreting their results".

May the fairy tales one may believe in be a soft pillow for ones head until  awakened by truth.  Amen




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This heavy dose of vitriol is difficult to comprehend.

What good effect would "banning" have?  Would it
clarify in any way what is truly taking place?

Why the threatening posture?  The strong display of
power?

Why not just let the process run its course?

Truth will always in the end rise to the surface.

There is entirely too much fear in the air at this
moment...


---------------------------
"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   
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Another demonstrated way of saving power by close to 90%.

This demonstration is done with a sample board to be supplied with the Lead-out energy DIY kit.

The sample board is tuned so that the battery can be taken off.  The LEDs will remain on for a guaranteed time of 2 minutes.  The average is actually 20 minutes.  One of the competition is to get the longest no-battery time.

If there is no battery and no DC Power supply, what is keeping the LEDs ON?

Can the capacitor store enough energy to light the 38 LEDs for that duration?

Is the Lead-out Energy a scientifically sound possibility?

More amazing demonstrations are available in the Demonstration Center.

Do I worry about banned from this forum?  Did the early Christians fear about being sent to the lions???
   
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Your first erroneous assumption Lawrence is that you are actually driving the LEDs at their rated 0.2W each. From the picture,it sure does not appear they are being driven to full power.  *** wait for the professional video.

Send me your circuit and I'll show you that there is little difference between driving the LEDS with straight DC and your circuit. *** you can do the actual experiment with the Lead-out Energy DIY Kit. I shall send one to you as Christmas Gift.  You deserve it as this bench has been very useful as a brain dump for me.

I still have your little unit you sent me some time ago, the test could be done with that also.  *** ignore that as it is no longer tuned.  The DIY Kit sample is done in established factories with worldclass quality control.  The sample demo unit will not break up in shipping.  (You can get a new replacement unit if that ever happens.)And regarding your oscilloscope measurements? I've yet to see you use or interpret your scope properly.
*** Use your oscilloscope on your DIY Kit Sample and compare that with the published ones on the CD or website.

I shall use lead-out energy at Tseung Resonance from now on.  The casual experimenter may never find the commercial resonance condition.  It took me and team 12 years!  We can now claim that we can use less than 80 watts to light up what used to need 1KW.  It is available to purchase as a product now.  (Can I mention the name of the Company???)
   
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As most of you will know I'm not one to sit on the fence, so let's call a spade a spade, eh.

Two of my personal dislikes are, 1) people claiming overunity when clearly they have not demonstrated this... and, 2) bringing gods and religion into the equation.

From a personal point of view Tseung does not act or post like any scientist I would care to associate with for both of the above reasons. I ask you all, what scientist (in his right mind) would claim overunity without first providing unequivocal proof. I'm also rather baffled as to why Physics Prof is so easily led by what Tseung posts, and indeed this has me questioning his qualifications - particularly the 'Physics' part... Oh, and the 'Prof' part. Why are there so many gullible people prepared to blindly put there faith in anyone, anything and everything that turns up?

We all know what simple Joule Thief ccts can do, we all know that resonance will improve efficiency and we all know that LEDs will light up if you look at them lovingly.:-*   Why does everyone always use LEDs?? For crying out loud, you can stick an LED on an Avramenko plug and it will light up in the vicinity of an RF field! As has been pointed out, lighting LEDs is far from conclusive test of power output. The light ouput is deceptive, we cannot tell by looking, our eyes are not sensitive enough and our brains do not respond quick enough.

Tsueng if you can create a 1KW output from 80W input, stop farting about with LEDs and stick a proper load such as a hotplate or a kettle on the output and see how long it takes to boil a given amount of water - that will sort the men from the boys.  Because until you do, this is all just Alice-in-Wonderland. That said, perhaps this is just the way you want it to be!

And what is this Tseung Resonance all about? You claim a 'frequency'... and name it after yourself? C.C  What frequency is this exactly, I wouldn't want to use it accidentally and infringe any copyright laws  :'(

You talk about a god, and the end to the energy crisis because you've seen the light (excuse the pun) and lit up a few LEDs, and I have to wonder about your mental state of mind.  It all sounds very much like the half-crazed and delusion rantings of the infamous Fast Freddy of my-truck-runs-on-water fame - apparently some god also told him to post a lot of bullshit - and fleece the gullible whilst you're at it!

Is it just me again, or is this the Sonic Boiler all over again?  ???

I hope I've not been too cryptic for some of you.  ;)
   
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Quote
Did the early Christians fear about being sent to the lions???

They might have bigged it up with their mates in the pub, but I bet they were shitting themselves in the pit faced with a hungry lion!

This has got to be a wind-up! Are you for real Tseung... or are you doing all this for a laugh?
   
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Dear Farrah Day:

Thanks for reminding me.

The next two impressive demonstrations are no longer LEDs.

One is the hand crank air pump for fish tank or live fish bait containers.  A few cranks through a specially tuned FLEET, the air pump continue to operate for over 30 minutes. 

The other is the fan.  I am using a duckie fan for now.  The tuning is totally different from the LEDs.  The toroid needs to have FEWER turns.  I assume that the fan itself has inductive coils.

As far as boiling water is concerned, the FLEET electronics do not like high current.  They burn up easily.  It is not a matter of not having the power.  It is a matter of controlling such power.  The USA Company I am discouraged to name is working on it.  I do not want my student team in Hong Kong to be exposed to such high currents.  But with God's blessing, the technical hurdles will be overcome.

One more impressive demo is the "forever lighted lamp".  This one has two rechargeable batteries.  Battery A helps to maintain 38 LEDs in the Tseung Resonance position and recharges Battery B at the same time.  From time to time, Battery A and Battery B are swapped.  This was documented in Patrick Kelly's ebook chapter 5 for a few years.  The problem we and others have is - the Batteries do not like such pulse charging and die pretty soon.  With God's Blessing and Guidance, we now have a solution that will also revive the totally dead rechargeable batteries.

This technique of reviving dead batteries is being patented.  You will know the details when you read the patents when they are released to the public.

I shall compare the lead-out technology with the light bulb once more.  After Thomas Edison demonstrated the light bulb, the scientists found the technology elementary – a battery, a few connecting wires, an on/off switch and a filament.  After the scientists have the Lead-out Energy DIY kit, they will say – it is elementary.  Just resonance-tune a couple of parameters (voltage, transistor, inductor, capacitor, resistor, load etc.) and electron motion energy will come in.  In the past scientists thought resonance tuning will just make things more efficient.  They will soon find that they can lead-out or bring-in electron motion energy.  Credit to all those working on Joule Thief, Joule Ringer, ######, Milkovic and all similar researches.
   

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Quote from: Farrah Day
Is it just me again, or is this the Sonic Boiler all over again?  ???

Aye, it is "just you" and we're neither troubled, offended, dismayed
nor discouraged.  Frankly, it is these qualities of yours which make you such
a valued member of the forum.  We truly have a need for what you bring to the
discussion.  Mostly...   :P

In a fairly short time we shall know for certain.  The anomalous resonance which
Lawrence has discovered is atypical.  It is not resonance as we normally think of
it; as a coherent condition.  It is somewhat more akin to the complex chaotic
resonances that certain mechanical devices are prone to exhibit just before they
shake themselves to pieces.

It is exceedingly difficult for many to visualize the workings of the anomaly which
is yet little understood in electrical/electronic applications.

Quote from: ltseung888
The problem we and others have is - the Batteries do not like such pulse charging
and die pretty soon.

Now this is puzzling.  Rechargeable cells/batteries have been shown to benefit
greatly from pulse charging.  What could it be about these pulses which seems to
cause this?
« Last Edit: 2012-08-17, 05:30:05 by Dumped »


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Quote
Dear Farrah Day:

Thanks for reminding me.

The next two impressive demonstrations are no longer LEDs.


Well, credit where credit is due Tseung, you certainly stick to your guns... and don't easily rise to the bait.

I look forward to seeing your cct do some real work.
   
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...In the past scientists thought resonance tuning will just make things more efficient.

The scientists know that a resonance is just storing energy provided step by step by small amounts at each oscillation.
It's "more efficient" only if we want use in a short time an energy accumulated in a long time.
The gain is in power, not in energy.

Quote
They will soon find that they can lead-out or bring-in electron motion energy.

Wishful thinking.

Quote
Credit to all those working on Joule Thief, Joule Ringer, ######, Milkovic and all similar researches.

None of these researches show extra-energy certified by credible third party.

   
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Lawrence

You are very close to being banned at OUR and here's why

You quote your device as being Overunity, it clearly is not, it may well drive LED's more efficiently but it does not drive them for free.


Who says the device has to "drive them for free"?  The OUR prize specification requires more power OUT than Power IN -- which is what Lawrence is inviting us to test and see for ourselves.  
I'm not saying this is the case, or not, until I have tested it -- but I am willing to do the testing.


Quote
Peterae:
You keep quoting company names, this is in effect promoting companies and make money from such devices, we work open source here for free....

I am sure Poynt would put things totally different to me but this is all wrong for OUR and your existence here.

I don't see any thing wrong with promoting companies that are freely selling the device -- I don't see how this violates OPEN SOURCE, unless the company prevents others from making and selling the device also.  Are you saying that making money on an open-source invention is wrong?

I have a close friend who is doing just this -- working on Open Source software while customizing it for use by a particular business.  Of course, they pay him for doing the customizing.  
Likewise, I am willing to pay $20 for Tseung's DIY kit, certainly a decent price -- so that I can test the device.

Please explain the above, Peterae.  Seems you are threatening an inventor here, with little basis for doing so IMO.
   
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...
The anomalous resonance which
Lawrence has discovered is atypical.  It is not resonance as we normally think of
it; as a coherent condition.
...

About this rumor, I saw only gibberish. Could you express and synthetize the phenomenon in technical terms instead of a credo, in order to duplicate the setup?
(shematics, observation conditions, quantified measurement results...)

   
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I agree with Dumped here:

This heavy dose of vitriol is difficult to comprehend.

What good effect would "banning" have?  Would it
clarify in any way what is truly taking place?

Why the threatening posture?  The strong display of
power?

Why not just let the process run its course?


Truth will always in the end rise to the surface...

Exactly!  Let us do the testing without the threats and taunts.  Since when are ad hominem taunts and threats part of the scientific method of actual testing?

   
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Well, credit where credit is due Tseung, you certainly stick to your guns... and don't easily rise to the bait.

I look forward to seeing your cct do some real work.

Yes, thanks for admitting that you are providing "BAIT" and seeing if people will rise to it.  Tsk tsk -- certainly not the scientific method there, is it FD?

Here is an example of your bait, FD:
Quote
I'm also rather baffled as to why Physics Prof is so easily led by what Tseung posts, and indeed this has me questioning his qualifications - particularly the 'Physics' part... Oh, and the 'Prof' part. Why are there so many gullible people prepared to blindly put there faith in anyone, anything and everything that turns up?


Ad hominem = to the man, as opposed to "to the science".  Baiting me, are you FD?

Note that I have repeatedly said that I am willing to test an actual device which Lawrence has promised to provide, to his credit.  
I have NOT said that it produces more output power than input power -- until it is actually tested and subjected to scrutiny and careful measurements.  That is the scientific method.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
L has deleted my post because I pointed out something technical that may have been a problem to him.

I also made a remark that he may not have appreciated.

Why delete the whole post, the technical part was correct?

See my remarks in the Rant Room where his censorship will not apply.

« Last Edit: 2012-08-17, 14:25:48 by ION »


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I have terrible visions of a scientist tending his live bait and performing all sorts of terrible experiments upon them !

In all seriousness though, this is a bit '######', isn't it ? Though i don't remember JB ever claiming overunity ...

Why not just sell the plans/parts list/supporting docs for $5 and send via e-mail ?

Then there is no postage/packing and no wait time for delivery.

edit add /So b.e.d.i.n.i is a swear word now ? LOL !/


DC.


Several months ago, we were advised that one cannot utter the name  of "b.e.d.i.n.i." on this forum.   I still find this amusing.
Nevertheless, so it is.  
Other forbidden words in this Orwellian nightmare include "overunity" and "resonance" (in certain contexts).


On the list of nearly excluded now are:  "names of companies", if I understand correctly.
   
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Since there were scientists ;+}

Nevertheless we see the results: the men went to the moon, a PC and Internet allow us to communicate all over the world, and the nuclear plants provide us energy.
When they worked on propulsion or electromagnetism, the scientists didn't announce the marvels that their work will enable later. In the free energy and overunity field, it's the absolute contrary, the announces of miracles come first, followed by strictly nothing.

   
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...
Note that I have repeatedly said that I am willing to test an actual device which Lawrence has promised to provide, to his credit.  
I have NOT said that it produces more output power than input power
...

It is a very reasonable attitude. But you said also "I am willing to pay $20 for Tseung's DIY kit, certainly a decent price". This price is decent only in case of real abnormal effects.
Is there a refund if the kit shows only conventional effects?

   
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Yes, thanks for admitting that you are providing "BAIT" and seeing if people will rise to it.  Tsk tsk -- certainly not the scientific method there, is it FD?

Just looking for the true colours to show themselves.  ;)
   
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