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Topic: Tariel Kapanadze's devices: How they might be faked  (Read 8469 times) Print
ION
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It's turtles all the way down

« on: 2012-09-07, 03:32:12 »
Healthy skepticism and critical inquiry is part of the due diligence required in examining any device that claims an abundance of "free energy".

This thread hopes to serve that purpose.
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EMdevices
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« Reply #1 on: 2012-09-07, 18:16:53 »
We can simply "fake" a lot of devices like the TK device, with batteries, especially the high capacity low loss technologies that exist today.    You can even fake it with a cell phone Lithium battery pack!  Who said your cell phone can't light up the world!   Shocked   Cheesy

But we need efficiency, and pumping DC through a light bulb is not the way to go.  We can make it look like the lightbulb is lit brightly, if it is pulsed.  How long the "fake" lasts is another subject.   If we just want to make it look like we can light light bulbs, we can do it, but not for too long.   

TK, is connected to a source of power, that's evident!

EM
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Farmhand
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« Reply #2 on: 2012-09-07, 22:18:50 »
Does everyone remember LaserSabre's power strip plugged into itself and how it was able to appear to light incandescent globes and
heater elements. He won't say how exactly it is done as far as I know. When that happens the person should be hounded until the method is revealed
or alienated from the community. It was quite a good trick but it was a trick and many people were sucked in. I don't mind a trick or two myself I play tricks on people,
but I never leave hem frustrated and stressed because of me I show them what I did so they might be more vigilant. Them being more vigilant might help me.
Lasersabre as a bit of an illusionist could use his talents to help many people rather than use it to get a laugh at others expense.

I get funny feeling about people and sometimes I watch a video and immediately get the feeling it's somehow faked. I feel challenged and my intuition see's alarm bells.

Tariel does give me a funny feeling. I spent quite a bit of time in my younger wild days surrounded by devious dishonest people, I'm not proud of it, it just is how it is,
being in a situation like that teaches one to "read people" or be consistently victimized. I can't say I am right of course and I would hate to make accusations of
a person and be wrong. The stakes are high.

I look at it like this, the circuitry is a minor detail, circuitry can be devised to do almost anything, the basic working principal is where the real value would be,
idea's can't be taken away, they can divulged by force or otherwise but the original possessor still has his knowledge. This is why i believe patents are not really lawful.
I don't see how anyone could hope to go to see a demonstration by Tariel and start demanding to test things or to see in his boxes, he would never allow it, that's how he makes money
it would appear to be worth while.

There is the possibility that he could be transmuting (or whatever it's called) the copper rod, but that is i think already possible and not considered any more OU than any other fuel based device.
Which brings up another problem, once the previously unknown source of the energy is discovered or revealed, is it still over unity ? If not, then was it ever ? Some would say that as long as we don't know
what the energy source is then it's Over Unity. That's not good logic because that means if the source of energy is the grid and we or him don't know that then it's considered Over Unity.

Regardless safe clean energy use is what we need, it does not matter how we define it. I don't think any of the guys like Tesla, Moray ect. ever stated that energy can be created from nothing.
There must be a source of energy. 

Without actually testing some idea's I can only speculate, It was my hope that if I show the idea's I get some more experienced folks might consider them and say if the idea's are possible or point out the reasons why not.

High frequency vibrations applied to the Earth are dissipated in a shorter distance but low frequency vibrations can travel great distances through the ground, eg. an electric fence operating at less than one Hz can transfer good energy for long distances. If high energy pulses at 10 Hz or something were applied to the ground what would happen. Is it possible to tap the ULF energy which may be transmitted by the militaries for towed antenna arrays for submarines and such ? I would imagine they would use harmonics of the planet or something. Maybe Tesla's system is in use and we just need to tune in to it. If everyone started doing it they would need to transmitt more power then, and it may become a serious crime to do that. What I think it boils down to is the military already has what we seek, if not they are slackers. I wonder what would happen if I won the lottery and tried to build a full size
resonant transformer to work at lower frequencies like below 15 Khz.

If ULF towed antenna arrays exist and ULF energy is transmitted at high levels of power then why can't we tap the waves ? If Tariel was tapping such an energy source would that be Over Unity considering taxpayers would
pay for the energy to be transmitted.

Many possibilities. Has anyone yet tried to transmit or receive 50/60 Hz resonantly through the ground Tesla style ? Using any steel cored transformer. Or some other way ?

If it's not faked as such, I think Tariel has a known source of energy even if "he" doesn't know it.

Cheers
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Hoppy
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« Reply #3 on: 2012-09-08, 10:17:07 »
Taking the 'Green Box' series of seven videos, the array of not very brightly lit lamps are switched on for only very short periods of time. Added to that, there are wires all over the place, including a 'washing line' running from the fence over to trees in the garden, which could well be the cable seen running along the ground (not easily spotted) behind the line of people around the demo table. The cable then runs under the lamp array and disappears from view close to the table. there is far too much going on in this series of videos to rule out faking. Also, we see a guy stripping a wire with what looks like a kitchen knife! He then crudely twists it together with another wire! My intuition certainly shouts that this is not a 'free energy' or 'energy transmutation' demo.

The aqua2 video is a bit more refined but TK refused to allow the visiting inspection team to carry out any meaningful tests, in particular disconnecting the braided 'earth' wire and closely inspecting it for concealed conductors. Although it appears from many other photos that the team were allowed to photograph freely, there have been no high res shots presented to cover the complete length of the 'earth' braid, so it begs the question - was this braid inspected closely along its entire length.

Hoppy
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ION
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It's turtles all the way down

« Reply #4 on: 2012-09-08, 16:32:19 »
From Hoppy:

Quote
The aqua2 video is a bit more refined but TK refused to allow the visiting inspection team to carry out any meaningful tests, in particular disconnecting the braided 'earth' wire and closely inspecting it for concealed conductors. Although it appears from many other photos that the team were allowed to photograph freely, there have been no high res shots presented to cover the complete length of the 'earth' braid, so it begs the question - was this braid inspected closely along its entire length.

In some of the videos the ground wire could have been coax with the outer plastic covering removed. It would resemble braid but could have an inner conductor that carries the mains power. A clever system of lugging would make it look like a single grounded wire.

You might say that the ground wire in the aquarium video is too small in diameter and too flexible to be coax.....not so. Quality coax can be made in small diameters with high shield coverage and is quite flexible.
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exnihiloest
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« Reply #5 on: 2012-09-08, 16:38:18 »
...
There is the possibility that he could be transmuting (or whatever it's called) the copper rod, but that is i think already possible and not considered any more OU than any other fuel based device.
Which brings up another problem, once the previously unknown source of the energy is discovered or revealed, is it still over unity ?
...

Interesting question. To answer this question, we need to answer another one: what do we call "over unity"?
For me an "overunity" machine is an apparently closed system having just an input and an output, and obeying two conditions:
- a quantity of energy X is provided to the input and a quantity of energy Y > X is obtained at the output
AND
- the final state of the machine is strictly identical to the start state (nothing consumed inside).

When this situation appears, we may think that:
- we have a perpetual motion machine of the first kind
OR
- the machine taps an unknown source of energy (it is not really "closed")
the second case being a priori the more likely.

In brief, apparently the machine doesn't obey the conservation of energy.

When the unknown source is discovered, we are left with an ordinary machine. The "overunity" property can be forgot and replaced by the energy depletion of the source.
If the TK's machine was a nuclear device, it would be no more overunity because it becomes obvious that its internal state would change during the operation, due to transmutations. But we are pragmatic and only the result has to be taken into account: we would have energy at very low price, which is our final goal (imho).

In the TK's first video, I don't see how conventional energy could be stored inside some components of the machine and produce the strong steady brightness of the lamps, question of volume not large enough. But I agree that this can be discussed.
A fake could be made using a hidden cable connected to the mains, or by induction from a big coil hidden in the ground or from a powerful HF transmitter. An HF transmitter is less likely, because the movements of objects or people in the surrounding would absorb a part of the energy and cause changes of the brightness (provided there is no electronics for regulating the output power received from the transmitter, which is also possible).

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Hoppy
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« Reply #6 on: 2012-09-08, 17:48:31 »
From Hoppy:

In some of the videos the ground wire could have been coax with the outer plastic covering removed. It would resemble braid but could have an inner conductor that carries the mains power. A clever system of lugging would make it look like a single grounded wire.

You might say that the ground wire in the aquarium video is too small in diameter and too flexible to be coax.....not so. Quality coax can be made in small diameters with high shield coverage and is quite flexible.


Looking at the few close-up shots of the braid, shows that it is fairly flat but it does vary slightly in width along its length, so i think it more likely that TK has used braided hose (used to encase conductors for shielding purposes) which has been flattened to give the look of a flat earthing braid. Any inner conductors could be in the form of a ribbon cable.

Hoppy
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ION
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It's turtles all the way down

« Reply #7 on: 2012-09-08, 18:07:37 »
Looking at the few close-up shots of the braid, shows that it is fairly flat but it does vary slightly in width along its length, so i think it more likely that TK has used braided hose (used to encase conductors for shielding purposes) which has been flattened to give the look of a flat earthing braid. Any inner conductors could be in the form of a ribbon cable.

Hoppy

I agree, however the low resolution video and my less than perfect vision cannot resolve what is shown.
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Hoppy
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« Reply #8 on: 2012-09-08, 18:33:50 »
I agree, however the low resolution video and my less than perfect vision cannot resolve what is shown.

Myself and others on the OU.com forum have requested to see the original high res video and any other photos that show close-ups of the braiding.

Hoppy
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cheappower2012
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« Reply #9 on: 2012-09-08, 23:30:23 »
Ex, check out these video's ,meet me half way and look at them.
These video's are of the 100kw turkey device built by
TK for the Turks.Notice that they use resistive loads,lights and an
electric motor,they check the input and outputs.It is easy to believe
 that the small devices TK made could be fake,this one not so easy.
Ask the question to the non believers how did he fool the Turks,see if they have an answer.
The fat old bald guy in the suit is in the 2004 video,connected to the Turks in some way.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtadR0skY00



This video places TK and assistant in the turkey video directly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKFW1uwLN3U&feature=relmfu


I believe only whats in the metal boxes is the real device ,everything else is smoke and mirrors.
If TK can create a 100 kw device then how hard would it be to for him to make a 4kw device.
When the recent new video was posted I saw 2 spark plugs setting on top of a coil  not connect to anything just arcing at that point  I knew that the level of deception that TK operates under is equal to SM,and he is a pathological liar.
In this forum SM can't lie ,won't lie and wants them to build hes tpu and they believe this like a religion Grin Cheesy
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Farmhand
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« Reply #10 on: 2012-09-09, 01:30:34 »
If we look at 3:39 in the video below we see a Tesla coil which has its "primary" connected apparently "difficult to tell" to the silver capacitors or the aluminium box
or both, to me it looks as if it would have a resonant frequency in the low 100's of Khz maybe below. Now please do correct me if I am wrong in my calculations.

At 100 000 Hz if the top capacitance is 1 nF and the received voltage is 50 000 volts then for each second I calculate 125 000 joules could be received.
1 nF at 50 000v = 1.25 joules x 100 000 cycles per second = 125 000 joules per second. Transformed through the primary to whatever storage capacitors
then transformed to whatever flavor of power is desired. The question is where is the 100 kHz transmitter ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtadR0skY00

To my way of thinking that single coil alone could be the receiver of transmitted energy and the energy could be transmitted from a similar arrangement powered from the grid,
the cost of the electricity to do it could be met by the "handlers" and the setup could be to get investment dollars.

If my calculations are correct then what ?

Cheers
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Farmhand
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« Reply #11 on: 2012-09-09, 02:25:30 »
The previous post I think describes the effect somewhat as Tesla intended, enormous amounts of energy could be transmitted using fairly small inexpensive equipment,
with the use of HF and high voltage the capacitance need only be relatively small.
With the advances in semiconductors and electronic components the transmitter would not need a spark gap and be better off without one.

With the smaller devices, a resonant receiving coil doesn't need to be a "Tesla" type coil and Tesla mentions near the beginning of his Colorado Springs Notes
that for the transmission of greater amounts of energy a large ratio of transformation alone is actually better, the Magnifying Transmitter being better for smaller amounts of
energy "signals".

He also states, this is just from memory, "that the higher the frequency the more energy can be transmitted" this is true of course theoretically, and he also states
that "the highest practical frequency would be in the order of 35 000 cycles per second", but also that "lower frequencies are more efficient and that higher frequencies can be used"
they are just not as efficient. He says I think 6 cycles per second would be the lowest.

Page 3 line 27 in the patent below has some info.

http://www.google.com/patents?id=oSo_AAAAEBAJ&printsec=abstract&zoom=4#v=onepage&q&f=false

More is in his work on alternating currents book. and other sources.

This patent says a lot of good stuff.

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=1119732

And the Colorado Springs Notes I can get a quote from if anyone wants me to.

The point is that the receiving of significant transmitted energy using only a ground connection is entirely possible and Tesla proved it.
The point of the circuit to test would be the ground connection between the receiving coil and the Earth.

I haven't even tried to do any transmission of energy using the ground though because of several reasons. Mainly frequency.

I have done a few experiments though and I think it is possible though the effectiveness "efficiency" could depend on many factors.

I'm not a very technical person, but one of the things I like to do is try to recreate some of the effects Tesla shows in drawings and Photo's
but in miniature, there's one below I think looks a bit like the discharge shown on page 346 of the Colorado Springs Notes I think.

Discharge in bottom right corner from secondary to ground, the top is the extra coil discharge.

http://img521.imageshack.us/img521/6153/electricflower010.jpg
Tariel Kapanadze's devices: How they might be faked


25 watt bulb lit between the Earth and secondary bottom terminal.

http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/9401/electricflower022.jpg
Tariel Kapanadze's devices: How they might be faked


Cheers

P.S. Here's a video showing low voltage transmission using a single conductor, because of the frequency and low voltage using the ground for that one conductor is out of the question.
However the transmitter is running from a 12 volt battery and the receiver produces 24 volts which is nothing special, just info. IF I had used lower frequency and higher voltage
I could have used the ground for the single conductor and the receiver would have no apparent source of input if I did not show the transmitter. Even though it is low powered and
dodgy and I am not a professor, probably more so because of my lackings I think that is a demo that speaks volumes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1nfWnjufZo

EDIT: THose coils in the video of mine were operating at between 440 and 460 kHz and developing a few hundred volts at the top terminal maybe 400 or so volts.

Any ground wire that looks like a ground wire could in fact be a transmission wire. And a clamp meter will go silly, it won't read a 100 kHz current well.

Oh and as far as I can tell the transmitter should be producing a continuous wave, which is why I don't think spark gap transmitters are practical, too difficult to get the really nice neat sine wave.

..

Last Edit: 2012-09-09, 03:01:44 by Farmhand
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Farmhand
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« Reply #12 on: 2012-09-09, 04:33:56 »
I thought deserved it's own post. I not exactly sure what it all means but I think it shows that in some places there would be some good 50 Hz vibes.
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Single-wire_earth_return

Quote
Safety
SWER's safety is assured because transformers isolate the ground from both the generator and user. Most electrical systems use a metallic neutral connected directly to the generator or a shared ground. Certain groups claim that stray voltages from SWER can injure livestock.[1]
Grounding is critical. Significant currents on the order of 8 amperes flow through the ground near the earth points. A good-quality earth connection is needed to prevent risk of electric shock due to earth potential rise near this point. Separate grounds for power and safety are also used. Duplication of the ground points assures that the system is still safe if either of the grounds is damaged.
A good earth connection is normally a 6 m stake of copper-clad steel driven vertically into the ground, and bonded to the transformer earth and tank. A good ground resistance is 5–10 ohms. SWER systems are designed to limit the voltage in the earth to 20 volts per meter to avoid shocking people and animals that might be in the area.
Other standard features include automatic reclosing circuit breakers (reclosers). Most faults (overcurrent) are transient. Since the network is rural, most of these faults will be cleared by the recloser. Each service site needs a rewirable drop out fuse for protection and switching of the transformer. The transformer secondary should also be protected by a standard high-rupture capacity (HRC) fuse or low voltage circuit breaker. A surge arrestor (spark gap) on the high voltage side is common, especially in lightning-prone areas.
The official investigation into the Black Saturday bushfires in Victoria, Australia, disclosed that a broken SWER conductor that comes in contact with a return path entry point with resistance similar to the circuit's normal load (such as a tree) can cause large amounts of current to flow to ground without a fault indication.[8] This presents a danger in fire-prone areas where a conductor may snap and current may arc through trees or dry grass.
Bare-wire or ground-return telecommunications can be compromised by the ground-return current if the grounding area is closer than 100 m or sinks more than 10 A of current. Modern radio, optic fibre channels and cell phone systems are unaffected.

After reading that wiki article I was a bit concerned with the safety of my electric fence when it is not turned on for maintenance, I have alternate hot ground wires and some of the ground wires are on insulators so they are not locally Earthed, however all sections of fence do have at least two strands which are grounded to each metal post somewhat but not purposfully. I used alternate hot - ground wires because initially I had concerns of poor Earthing.

My concern would be if there was a fault "fence short" from a wet branch or something to a hot wire, I would turn off the fence energizer where the main Earth stakes are, then go to the short, at this point there would be the hot wires connected to the ground at the short and the ground wires connected to the ground stakes way back where the energizer is, it could be a fair distance. if I touched one with each hand could I get fried ?  Shocked

Oh wow. Is that possible.
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exnihiloest
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« Reply #13 on: 2012-09-09, 11:20:09 »

"Single wire" transmissions are ordinary circuits looped through the ground.
Tesla resonant circuits that are coupled at a distance are also circuits efficiently looped through the ground and between terminal capacities by displacement currents and/or between coils by magnetic induction. The energy stored and shared in the two circuits can be important if the circuits have a high Q, but this energy comes from smaller quantities of energy added at each period until the expected final condition is reached. Then this enormous energy can be recovered in one shot, but no more than the quantity that we have put step by step.
There is no magic here and I don't see the least clue of extra-energy in any experiment of this kind.

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exnihiloest
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« Reply #14 on: 2012-09-09, 11:21:40 »
Ex, check out these video's ,meet me half way and look at them.
These video's are of the 100kw turkey device built by
TK for the Turks.Notice that they use resistive loads,lights and an
electric motor,they check the input and outputs.It is easy to believe
 that the small devices TK made could be fake,this one not so easy.
Ask the question to the non believers how did he fool the Turks,see if they have an answer.
The fat old bald guy in the suit is in the 2004 video,connected to the Turks in some way.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtadR0skY00



This video places TK and assistant in the turkey video directly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKFW1uwLN3U&feature=relmfu

I believe only whats in the metal boxes is the real device ,everything else is smoke and mirrors.
If TK can create a 100 kw device then how hard would it be to for him to make a 4kw device.
When the recent new video was posted I saw 2 spark plugs setting on top of a coil  not connect to anything just arcing at that point  I knew that the level of deception that TK operates under is equal to SM,and he is a pathological liar.
In this forum SM can't lie ,won't lie and wants them to build hes tpu and they believe this like a religion Grin Cheesy


Thanks for the links and the information, cp. Until now I have studied only the first TK's demonstration and the patents, because they are a priori duplicable by anyone (if we had the exact shematics). I was not interested in the turkish device because it was too big and so, further from the fundamental elementary principles and less clear. Nevertheless I agree that I should have a look at it.

I'm always astonished when people who pretend to have a working device at small scale, something that every one could have at home for powering the house, undertake the building of big machines that from my viewpoint, would be useful only for the industry and would provide perhaps a less money return than this obtained from a mass market of smaller devices.
In other cases, this has been the sign of scams: the inventor cheat us by pretexting he is on a big project of scaling, instead of finalizing the demonstration of the small device (which in reality, doesn't work).

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ION
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It's turtles all the way down

« Reply #15 on: 2012-09-09, 14:32:33 »
From ex:

Quote
the inventor cheat us by pretexting he is on a big project of scaling, instead of finalizing the demonstration of the small device (which in reality, doesn't work).

This is so true, we see it in a certain person whose name we shall not mention that has built something akin to a "ferris wheel".

It is important to recognize the red flags when you see them. A proof of concept need only deliver a few "honest" watts.

No need to dazzle their eyes, just solid proof.
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cheappower2012
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« Reply #16 on: 2012-09-09, 14:53:11 »
Ex,here is more info
there is a direct connection with the turkey device and that is that its a 3 phase device.
The big mystery in the 2008 turkey video is this ,TK cheated the Turks for a large sum of money,
he then backed out of a deal,my main question is why didn't the Turks simply reverse engineer
 what they had and cut him out of the deal.A recent video by a team of people  went to
see TK and paid him a lot of
money to make a device,
he was very sick at the time,still he cheated them too,and backed out of a deal.
So they posted a video on the internet here is that video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-NLBSBRsBM&feature=related


The green transformer I believe is the source of the overunity,when you trace the connections
to the heater,the path is between the ground braid
 and the transformer
here is the problem,the transformer was made for a Russian clone IBM computer power supply
around 200 watts,around 1982.The transformer is a very strange transformer it appears to be operated on 3 phase ac,and has three low voltage windings in its normal operation,in the device its
reversed,the output is the input and the
input is the output.It has  to pass around 9amps,2kw heater,if 220vac,that of course is
impossible,the windings of the transformer would burn up.
This is the end of the line for the overunity group on the TK's device,now the way is its a
fake,or some mystical
theory,or some silly theory or its a Tesla invention.TK has hidden all functional things from view in all other devices,
this is the first
 time he has shown  what I believe is the
active part.When I first seen the transformer and looked at how the connections are
 connected
I figured that this would be the end,it is a very hard bridge for anyone,with a good physics
or electronics backround to cross.
I believe your more objective in this regard than most,however be careful with the patients
as this guys ability to lie and distort truth is amazing,theres a very good chance the patients
are worthless.

This poster is a member of overunity.com and has the exact transformer,and posted a video
also did a very good job of tracing the connections from the heater to the transformer.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjExW90EXM8


here is a TK device that was made just before the turkey video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=wNnWSvz1KsQ

 The 2 pictures are from this same poster in one I pointed out connections so you know what goes were.








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Tariel Kapanadze's devices: How they might be faked
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Tariel Kapanadze's devices: How they might be faked
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ION
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« Reply #17 on: 2012-09-09, 15:33:14 »
Quote
here is a TK device that was made just before the turkey video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&feature=endscreen&v=wNnWSvz1KsQ

Can anyone identify the red meter and the range setting that seems to be in series with the line power input?

Very questionable, to use some cheesy meter to measure input current (that could have been rigged internally to read wrongly) while using quality switchgear type meters on the output.

Why does he not unplug the device from the mains?

On the aquarium unit, I find it hard to believe anyone (in Russia) would use a three phase transformer in any of their PC clones when when a single phase transformer would have sufficed. How many homes in Russia have 3 phase power? This looks like mil surplus gear to me. I could be wrong and am willing to be corrected on this.

However, the black box (not the one with the switches) in the prior video could have been a PC clone power supply
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EMdevices
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« Reply #18 on: 2012-09-09, 17:08:44 »
I haven't seen the aquarium video until today.  I'm not surprised at their low frequency, it seems to fire at a subharmonic of 50 hz.  That ground connection going outside, is truly just one conductor wire.  The power is received through that one wire from the stray potentials of the electricity grid.

Or it's a fake (or deceiving) and those black boxes house lots of batteries, and so the device is simply an inverter, albeit one that's very well grounded!   Grin

I think it's real.

EM
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muDped

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« Reply #19 on: 2012-09-09, 19:33:30 »
Quote from: exnihiloest
Tesla resonant circuits that are coupled at a distance are also
circuits efficiently looped through the ground and between
terminal capacities by displacement currents and/or between
coils by magnetic induction. The energy stored and shared in
the two circuits can be important if the circuits have a high Q,
but this energy comes from smaller quantities of energy added
at each period until the expected final condition is reached.
Then this enormous energy can be recovered in one shot, but
no more than the quantity that we have put step by step.
There is no magic here and I don't see the least clue of
extra-energy in any experiment of this kind.

Until the immense atmospheric electrical charge is brought
into play there will not be any "extra-energy" made manifest.
Tap into that and there will be abundant energy...
-------------------------------
Our Western partners headed by the United States prefer not to be guided by international law in their practical policies, but by the rule of the gun. They have come to believe in their exceptionalism and their sense of being the chosen ones.

Vladimir Putin, in speech before the Federal Assembly
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exnihiloest
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« Reply #20 on: 2012-09-09, 19:59:48 »
Until the immense atmospheric electrical charge is brought
into play there will not be any "extra-energy" made manifest.
Tap into that and there will be abundant energy...

Urban legend. The atmospheric electrical charge is not immense, except during thunderstorms.
Proof: the short waves are reflected by ionospheric layers at alitude between 100-300 Km, not by the atmosphere. The most charged ionospheric layers contain only 105 electrons/cm3. If the atmosphere contained a significative charge, the shortwaves would be reflected at some hundred or thousands meters, and therefore couldn't propagate on long distances.

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Farmhand
Group: Guest
« Reply #21 on: 2012-09-09, 21:54:51 »
I don't get your answer Ex. I agree with it though. I did not mention anything about any extra energy in my experiments,
in fact it was quite inefficient. I was merely pointing out that Tariel could receive energy that way.

One thing I will ask you though is. Are you saying that the low voltage setup in my video was transferring energy from one top capacitance
to the other one- capacitively. I would say it is just bouncing the energy back and forth through the single wire between the two that way.

But I do agree there is no extra energy, I have stated before that there is no extra energy, and I did not say that there was in this thread.
Did you think i was implying there was extra energy or something ? If so please point out what made you think that.

My point is that the energy could be received in large amounts by a single ground connection to a HF resonant transformer.
And my calculations say 125 000 joules per second could be received under the conditions i described.

Cheers

P.S. And just as a matter of curiosity, can anyone show me reference to any text where Tesla states his single wire or wireless systems
produce extra energy. Anyone ? Any text ? Anything ? It's a transmission system not a free energy device.




...

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cheappower2012
Position: Full Member
***
Posts: 101
« Reply #22 on: 2012-09-09, 23:10:17 »
This was posted by a member on overunity.com that lives somewhere in Russia in a former
state, same guy that has the transformer.

 09/1982 year
block-module  power source from industry "EC-0912" 12,6V-2A  NK53112   
 Power source module from the prehistoric USSR computer ES http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ES_EVM

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IMG_2227m.jpg
Tariel Kapanadze's devices: How they might be faked
* IMG_2227m.jpg (219.24 KB, 1280x853 - viewed 1425 times.)
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ION
Group: Elite
******
Posts: 2055

It's turtles all the way down

« Reply #23 on: 2012-09-09, 23:35:45 »
OK a clone of the IBM 360/370 Mainframes the ES-EVM, not PC's...now it makes more sense. Sure the mainframes would probably have three phase power available for the large power supplies and smaller ones for peripheral devices.

Thanks for the info.
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exnihiloest
Group: Read Only
*****
Posts: 1371
« Reply #24 on: 2012-09-10, 17:20:34 »
I don't get your answer Ex. I agree with it though. I did not mention anything about any extra energy in my experiments,
in fact it was quite inefficient. I was merely pointing out that Tariel could receive energy that way.

What reply are you refering to? My previous reply was to Dumped about the atmospheric charge, not about extra-nergy nor TK.
If it is reply #13, which was general, and you would like that I link it to your post #10, I dont agree about this:
Quote
At 100 000 Hz if the top capacitance is 1 nF and the received voltage is 50 000 volts then for each second I calculate 125 000 joules could be received.
1 nF at 50 000v = 1.25 joules x 100 000 cycles per second = 125 000 joules per second.

When the capacitor is charged, you have an energy E=0.5*C*U2=0.5*10-9*(5*104)2=1.25 J. You can recover 1.25*100 000 cycles per second only if you can recover 1.25J at each period. But is it possible?
To charge a capacitor at 50 000 volts needs time. You can't charge it in the time of a single period. The higher the Q factor, the longer the time you need. Suppose that the capacitor can be charged in 1s, this means that the input energy is only 1.25 J/s and so, you can't recover more than that. Even if the capacitor was chargeable in 0.01s, this would mean that an input of 125J/s is required and that you will recover 125J/s.
The time for building the charge using resonance is not instantaneous. If you recover 1.25J in one period, then you will have to wait several periods until the charge rebuilds. Therefore the available mean energy/s will be much less than in your calculus.


Quote
One thing I will ask you though is. Are you saying that the low voltage setup in my video was transferring energy from one top capacitance
to the other one- capacitively. I would say it is just bouncing the energy back and forth through the single wire between the two that way.
...

Not only. Any charge displacement, including in the top capacitor, influences the charges everywhere around, these from another capacitor or from the ground. This can be viewed as displacement currents. "Open" circuits carrying current doesn't exist, excepted when they radiate (antennae). The human eye see only an open circuit but the current see a closed circuit and flows along.

Quote
P.S. And just as a matter of curiosity, can anyone show me reference to any text where Tesla states his single wire or wireless systems
produce extra energy. Anyone ? Any text ? Anything ? It's a transmission system not a free energy device.
...

Tesla has certainly never affirmed to produce extra-energy. But there is now a certain mythology around Tesla, spread by unskilled people who say that Tesla was on the way to get it. I'm pleased to see that your are not among them.

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