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Author Topic: Avramenko fork/plug...how does it work and is it OU?  (Read 7551 times)
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Here's a 'Web article with an example of an Avramenko fork on the page:

http://www.rangertell.com/to_the_skeptic.htm

I've seen another site page that had an Avramenko circuit with a 30 ft long, 32 ga. wire to an Avrameko fork as a half wave bridge at the end.  It powered a Radio-Shack-style xenon lamp very brightly and continuously with the whole 30' wire cool to the touch.

Cold, radiant energy is being generated as I see it.   But can it be harvested as OU?

Here's J. Naudin's work from his site:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm

--Lee


---------------------------
"The truth comes from wisdom, and widsom comes from experience."
                   --Valdemar  Valerian
                   --from the Matrix series of books

 
"Whosoever speaks or otherwise acts, has no secrets."
                                     --Roman proverb?
   
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Here's a 'Web article with an example of an Avramenko fork on the page:

http://www.rangertell.com/to_the_skeptic.htm

I've seen another site page that had an Avramenko circuit with a 30 ft long, 32 ga. wire to an Avrameko fork as a half wave bridge at the end.  It powered a Radio-Shack-style xenon lamp very brightly and continuously with the whole 30' wire cool to the touch.

Cold, radiant energy is being generated as I see it.   But can it be harvested as OU?

Here's J. Naudin's work from his site:

http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm
      This is a page I stumbled on as a similar aspect to this thread's subject:  Namely, this system below transmits power over a single wire and adding LED stages to the output antenna can actually lower power consumption by the signal generator.   Here it is...

http://pesn.com/2012/01/18/9602015_Quantum_Resonant_Gyrator_Embodies_Simple_Tesla_Technology/
 
Later Reedit:
       From another site...

http://www.overunity.com/3457/selfrunning-cold-electricity-circuit-from-dr-stiffler/dlattach/attach/106411/image//

--Lee
« Last Edit: 2013-08-19, 05:31:43 by the_big_m_in_ok »


---------------------------
"The truth comes from wisdom, and widsom comes from experience."
                   --Valdemar  Valerian
                   --from the Matrix series of books

 
"Whosoever speaks or otherwise acts, has no secrets."
                                     --Roman proverb?
   
Group: Guest
There is no magic or difficulty in transmitting power over one wire,i have done this in many different way's.
As far as the avramenko plug go's-well i believe it works via environmental capacitance set up by the two diode's.
I have my own mod of the AV plug,and it seems to work with twice the efficiency of the standard AV plug.
Here is an interesting experiment i tried some time ago. Not only are we using just one wire to charge a cap to light an LED,but also charging another cap to a higher voltage via a glass of water. You will also note that the high voltage is being transmitted via two open antenna's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vps4g8F2eEs
   

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tinman,

You may wish to try suspending the fl. tube using a nice dry piece of string vs. holding it with your hand.

You should prove your theory of capacitance being the missing wire but almost all of the capacitance is where your skin makes contact with the glass tube.

There has been substantial discussion on AV plugs on this forum, alone. They do work simply because high frequency and high voltage is used. This makes capacitance a key factor it its operation.

The same can be done with no wire connections between source and load.



---------------------------
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   
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I have my own mod of the AV plug,and it seems to work with twice the efficiency of the standard AV plug.
Here is an interesting experiment i tried some time ago. Not only are we using just one wire to charge a cap to light an LED,but also charging another cap to a higher voltage via a glass of water. You will also note that the high voltage is being transmitted via two open antenna's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vps4g8F2eEs
       I was interested enough in the video, I went looking for more information.   Here's look at this, everyone...

http://members.tele2.nl/kovavla/experimentssingl.html

His theory, as I understand it up to this point, is as good as any other out there on the 'Web.   Does anyone else have anything to add or have similar experience(s)?

--Lee


---------------------------
"The truth comes from wisdom, and widsom comes from experience."
                   --Valdemar  Valerian
                   --from the Matrix series of books

 
"Whosoever speaks or otherwise acts, has no secrets."
                                     --Roman proverb?
   
Group: Moderator
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Posts: 404
There is no magic or difficulty in transmitting power over one wire,i have done this in many different way's.
As far as the avramenko plug go's-well i believe it works via environmental capacitance set up by the two diode's.
       Would this version be something like what you envision...?

http://technosyndicate.wordpress.com/2012/11/
       I would modify the circuit by replacing the diodes with Zeners at 5 VDC ea.    12ea. to a side, oppositely wired.    A long wire to charge the capacitor, and when the voltage reaches 120 VDC, at the top of the Zener string, the Zeners trip and make the light bulb blink.   A little bit like a spark gap, but using low voltage.

--Lee


---------------------------
"The truth comes from wisdom, and widsom comes from experience."
                   --Valdemar  Valerian
                   --from the Matrix series of books

 
"Whosoever speaks or otherwise acts, has no secrets."
                                     --Roman proverb?
   
Group: Guest
tinman,

You may wish to try suspending the fl. tube using a nice dry piece of string vs. holding it with your hand.

The same can be done with no wire connections between source and load.


Hi WW
I do not believe it is the high voltage at all that causes a CFL to light up,and the no wire connection says it all. A CFL will light without anything attached to it,weather that be a hand or a dry string.As CFL's light wirelessly next to an exciter tower,then it can only be the high frequency magnetic waves that excite the gases,and cause them to illuminate.
As we know,when a voltage is passed through a wire,a magnetic field also builds up around that wire,and travels with the voltage down the wire. With the one wire setup,i believe it is the magnetic field around that wire going into the CFL that lights up the gas-not the voltage in the wire. A neon as we know,will also light when in the presence of a high frequency magnetic field-reguardless of weather it has a wire connected to it or not.
So with the no wire attached setup,it can only be the magnetic field that is exciting the gases-not high voltage.
   

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tinman,

I urge you to experiment to confirm your understanding.

Having performed those experiments, I must say my belief remains.

To my knowledge, a magnetic field, changing or not, will not ionize the gases in such lamps. Electric fields do. The gas in fluorescent and neon bulbs must be ionized before current will flow in normal circuits. Ionizing the gases to a high enough alternating potential will also cause enough excitation to cause the gas to glow with no current supplied to the bulb terminals.

I have had cases where a very high frequency changing magnetic field caused a neon to glow but when I measured for voltage on the terminals of the bulb I found that a high voltage was being induced on the lamp wires.

Don't mind me. I was asked to leave a hairpin demonstration because I waited until the speaker turned his device off and then keyed my handy-talkie and lit his one-wire bulbs from the back of the room. My radio was transmitting on 2-meters with less than 5 Watts of carrier. The bulb at the end of the wire in air and the one in the bowl of water both lit nicely  >:-)

To me, there is no mystery in these devices.

  


---------------------------
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   

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Very good WaveWatcher!

When one has the knowledge and understanding
of the various ways to produce Radio Frequency
Energy (Spark Gaps, Vacuum Tubes, Semiconductor
Devices, etc.) and the characteristics of Transmission
Lines and Antennae, then there is no Mystery for a
certainty. ???

Your impromptu excitation of the demonstration with
a Handie Talkie should have been welcomed by all
concerned as further evidence of how these things
work. C.C


---------------------------
“When an honest man realizes that he is mistaken, he will either cease being mistaken or cease being honest.” –Anonymous
   

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Your impromptu excitation of the demonstration with
a Handie Talkie should have been welcomed by all
concerned as further evidence of how these things
work. C.C

Thanks but I think everyone in the audience and certainly the presenter were upset. It was like I was speaking blasphemy against Tesla.

I only did it because while the hairpin circuit was running it was swamping the entire 2-meter HAM band with hash, pops and whistles. All it was was about a 2kW very broadband jamming device. When one of them asked me if I've ever seen a light bulb light while connected to one wire I said yes. Hams use a similar method to tune and troubleshoot wire antennae only they use an incandescent bulb.

They all finally agreed that I should leave. It wasn't a problem after I saw they didn't know what they were talking about.

Total of six hours of driving that day just to be thrown out.

It was a good day  O0

The problem I see in all of this is that I believe the original claims are valid but all the folks I've seen to-date saying they've duplicated it are full of hash, pops and whistles  ;)


---------------------------
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   

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Frequency equals matter...
Quote
The problem I see in all of this is that I believe the original claims are valid but all the folks I've seen to-date saying they've duplicated it are full of hash, pops and whistles  Wink

LOL.


---------------------------
   
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@tinman,
       Your experience in your posted Reply #7 points out an answer to a question I asked myself:  Do you need high power to reach long distances with a magnet field?   Evidently not.

I raised the question in my mind in conjunction with an upcoming and foreseeable necessity for the use of a Lakhovsky radiating coil by me.   I started a thread involving Lakhovsky MWO's on this forum.

--Lee


---------------------------
"The truth comes from wisdom, and widsom comes from experience."
                   --Valdemar  Valerian
                   --from the Matrix series of books

 
"Whosoever speaks or otherwise acts, has no secrets."
                                     --Roman proverb?
   
Group: Guest
 WW
Please explain to me the difference between an electric field,and a magnetic field?.
As far as im aware,there can be no electric field without there being a magnetic field. But we can how ever ,have a magnetic field without there being an electric field,or should i say-a yet to be discovered electric field.
Some call it an electric field,but it is also an electromagnetic field-so we cannot seperate the two.
I still believe that a high frequency magnetic field is what is causing the gas to illuminate,via high speed particle collisions within certain gases.
If there was some way to generate that kind of frequency with perminant magnet's,then i would carry out the test.But this would require some very high rotor speed's-infact,im not even sure it would be possable-for me anyway. But i will do some test on my tower,and see how low i can drop the frequency down to light up a neon wirelessly,without any contact on the neon in any way.Then i will calculate what kind of rpm we are looking for,with a rotor full of magnet's. I suspect it will be very high though.
   

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My following descriptions of fields will use the term 'field lines'. Be it understood that these lines do not actually exist. They are just a way of expressing differences and variations of density, height, etc., like height/altitude lines on a topographic map.

An electric field exists with or without electric current. A static electric field exists between any two points of electric charge, be it the static electric charge between your hand and the doorknob you are about to grab or the two terminals of a battery. 'Static' generally means 'not changing or no current flowing'.
The only difference between static electricity and 'electricity' is whether current is flowing or not.
The above electric fields exist before and during current flow or current would never flow.

Magnetic fields only occur when there is current flow - or - electron(charge) motion. Such is believed the cause of a static magnetic field related to a permanent magnet. Most of the electron motion is aligned and going the same way so each of their tiny magnetic fields sum to what you perceive emanating from the magnet. You can't measure these small currents because it isn't currently possible to measure the current that which is an electron in orbit around the atom's nucleus. At least, not with common equipment.

So, all electric & magnetic fields are actually each part of an electromagnetic field where there is current flow. I will go as far to say that a static electric field would not fit under 'electromagnetic'.

Electric and magnetic are opposite sides of the same coin. Magnetic can't exist without the electric. (Common explanation>Electric can and does exist without magnetic because magnetic is relative to motion.) My belief is that neither can exist without the other. The only reason we do see electric fields without magnetic fields is because there is no relative motion between us and the moving charge. We are moving together.
The difficult fact is that there is no reality in anything being at rest from all reference points.
 
I'll break that thought as it is the edge of the proverbial rabbit hole.

Think of it using this analogy:

Static electric is a boat having the potential to move but setting still on a calm lake. Magnetic is the wake left by that same boat when it is moving. The question not answered easily is what is the electromagnetic equivalent of the lake water in that analogy?

I think the current trend is to say the lake water is dark matter/energy and everything is floating in that. Of course, dark matter/energy wind up just being the fudge factor to make the current math come out right. They would never admit that aether is just as good an answer.

Wiki has good explanations of both with easily understood graphics. I'm a picture guy, myself. As long as it has pictures I can understand it  O0


---------------------------
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   
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@wavewatcher
Quote
Static electric is a boat having the potential to move but setting still on a calm lake. Magnetic is the wake left by that same boat when it is moving. The question not answered easily is what is the electromagnetic equivalent of the lake water in that analogy?

It may be that it is completely the opposite, the supposed static electric is oscillating at an incredible rate not unlike a lake covered in waves however the average height and frequency gives the appearance of a lack of motion relative to our boat. When the boat moves the wake from it interacts with the waves from the lake producing an interference pattern or a region of calm water. Now if we should ask your question "what is the electromagnetic equivalent of the lake water" we might have our answer. The electromagnetic equivalent is no different than the mechanical equivalent and we are simply dealing with EM waves interacting with other EM waves.


Few have considered that if the normal state of the universe is chaos or motion then one wave could interfere with another producing a region of calm and this region might appear to have substance relative to the chaos around it. In which case we would have it all backwards and should refer to the rules of induction. The transfer of energy does not relate to a high potential nor a low potential only to the magnitude of "change" in which case something becoming nothing(wave cancellation) is equivalent to nothing becoming something(wave summation). Now we could ask the question are the primary fields Electric, Magnetic and Gravic "something" or a lack of "something" ?.

AC


---------------------------
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt.

There is infinitely more that we do not know, than we know.
   

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AC,

I can't say anyone has definite proof of anything in electromagnetics. All we know is both appear to be opposite sides of the same coin. I know of no one able to prove beyond any doubt that one creates the other or both are truly opposite sides of the same coin.

I agree all is spin and frequency, both results of wave interference. There are no little balls we can label atomic particles. What is interesting is that they are indeed wavelets but many have mass. How a wavelet has mass is the part were no reasonable answer exists. None that I've seen, anyway.


---------------------------
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   
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@Wavewatcher
Quote
I can't say anyone has definite proof of anything in electromagnetics. All we know is both appear to be opposite sides of the same coin. I know of no one able to prove beyond any doubt that one creates the other or both are truly opposite sides of the same coin.

We have come a long way in the last 100 years however I believe we still have a very long way to go. Maybe our great great grandchildren will look back on us in the same way we look at the early settlers. Life was hard but there was always a sense of purpose and adventure, maybe we should be grateful all is not know and that there is still a sense of mystery concerning the known universe.
Interesting times indeed.

AC


---------------------------
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt.

There is infinitely more that we do not know, than we know.
   
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@Wavewatcher
We have come a long way in the last 100 years however I believe we still have a very long way to go. Maybe our great great grandchildren will look back on us in the same way we look at the early settlers. Life was hard but there was always a sense of purpose and adventure, maybe we should be grateful all is not know and that there is still a sense of mystery concerning the known universe.
Interesting times indeed.

AC
       A really good philosophy to live by.   I had immigrant ancestors, whom I'm confident did the best they could with their lives; and I'm very confident their sense of purpose to survive so that their children and descendants could to the same was strong in their minds.

The ongoing discussion above in electromagnetic physics is very interesting to read.   New information I've never seen before is giving me pause to try and reflect on what I've read up 'til now.   I'm fine on basic hardware wiring and long wire ambient energy collection schemes are my forte'.

--Lee


---------------------------
"The truth comes from wisdom, and widsom comes from experience."
                   --Valdemar  Valerian
                   --from the Matrix series of books

 
"Whosoever speaks or otherwise acts, has no secrets."
                                     --Roman proverb?
   
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Posts: 404
...to a transformer, to a Avramenko plug/fork, to finally add diode cells in series to see if power consumption falls in so doing...

I'll try and draw an ascii font schematic:

          ____
                 )|||
                 )|||
                 )||| ________---->|---+
                 )|||(                |             |
                 )|||(                |            ---    ...and so on, with the same cell schematic immediately to the left, in series.
120 VAC    )|||(   12 VAC |            ---
                 )|||(                |             |
                 )|||(                |---->|---+
                 )|||(
                 )|||(__________ NC
                 )|||
                 )|||
         ____)|||

The symbols, drawn in order from left to right are:   Wall power---120VAC--- to a step-down transformer, one of end of the secondary being connected to two diodes wired in the same direction, and those are wired to a non-polarized capacitor on their right.   More such cells can be added.   The other side of the secondary is not connected.   It important that the circuit be ungrounded.

Voltage can be measured from the high side to ground (necessarily) with a VOM, and current can be measured with an Amp meter.   Will power drop as more diode cells are added?   Is there something I missed?   Take a look at this and see.   Other questions?

LATER REEDIT:
Here are other versions of the same thing in the drawing above:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3934-high-voltage-thin-air-38.html   (Posted reply #1113, Pg. 38 of the thread)

ADDITIONAL DRAWING...
http://samertje.info/QRG/QRG.png
(zoom in the picture with 4 or 5 clicks on the "Zoom In" icon and make it more clearly visible)
 
--Lee
« Last Edit: 2013-09-01, 23:50:32 by the_big_m_in_ok »


---------------------------
"The truth comes from wisdom, and widsom comes from experience."
                   --Valdemar  Valerian
                   --from the Matrix series of books

 
"Whosoever speaks or otherwise acts, has no secrets."
                                     --Roman proverb?
   
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