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Author Topic: Marinov Generator  (Read 13324 times)
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I recently started posting papers on Harti's overunity.com site and got invited to join overunityresearch.com so here I am.  For some background I live in the UK, I am 80 years old and I have been following the OU scene since 1994.  My working life was spent in the UK defence industry initially as an electronics engineer but later as an electromagnetic engineer/physicist.  I had several patents (now expired) and a number of patent applications, and I am a member of the Institute of Patentees and Inventors (which doesn't mean much but I can put M. Inst. P. I. after my name, or "mince pie" as it is colloquially known  :) ).  I intend to put all my papers on OU on the web and here is the start.

I was fortunate enough to be able to do some experiments on the generator version of Marinov's Siberian Coilu, which I choose to call the Marinov Generator.  Essentally this is a slip-ring with two brushes at diametrically opposite positions.  In my simple version a magnet is placed near each brush.  When the slip-ring is rotated a DC voltage is generated across the brushes.  It is possible that this is not classical flux-cutting induction, but is a form of longitudinal induction (along the velocity direction) from movement through the vector potential, and would occur if a closed magnetic circuit were used where the external flux is zero.  If so this offers OU potential.

Here is the first of several papers, this one describing the experiment.  More to follow
   
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Welcome to the forum, Smudge !

Regards, ION (Vortex1)


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Here are some more of my papers.  Enjoy!
   
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I wonder if it would be possible to design an experiment where torque or current draw of the driving motor is measured with the Marinov generator open circuit and short circuit to attempt to detect loading effects, if any.

This would have to require a lightweight, sensitive apparatus with a minimum of friction.

As far as extracting energy from this low voltage high current generator, I would use a large inductor with low resistance windings to store the current in the magnetic field, then release it in a timed manner from the back emf which is now a current source, and can charge a capacitor through a diode to any desired voltage, depending on the capacitor value and the inductance. (flyback converter)
« Last Edit: 2014-06-05, 22:34:07 by ION »


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Welcome Smudge

Thanks for sharing your work here  O0

I am also in the UK, South East coast.

Regards
Peter
   
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Thanks Smudge and welcome. I'm looking forward to reading your work. Thanks for making it available.
   
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Going away for a few days so I thought I'd get this thread going again.  Of all the OU devices I've been involved with this is the only one where there is a plausible explanation for where the energy comes from.  Also I found that I am not the only one to have performed the slip-ring Marinov generator experiment, Stan Zuala got 2mV at 2000rpm, picture of his set up below.

What i would like to see is an experiment that shows DC induction into a coil, see image.  It needs a slip-ring driven at high speed with diametrically opposite brushes.  Current is passed across the slip ring from a DC source.  A multi turn coil is placed close to one of the brushes where, according to my math, it should get a DC voltage induced.  There will also be slip-ring noise that will need filtering out.  The coil needs as many turns as possible using fine gauge wire.  If someone could validate this it would pave the way for more extensive research into the phenomenon because if you can create DC  E field vortices they can be used to "load" the electron spins and orbits responsible for magnetization, and it is a route to extracting energy from a PM.

Anyone up for a try?  You would get some kudos for being the first person to demonstrate this hole in our knowledge, it would be worthy of a publication in a scientific journal.

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Dear Smudge.

If I have correctly interpreted your drawing it is an insulated disc that carries a Copper ring driven by an electric motor ?

Should be fairly simple to construct can the Copper ring have a joint ? Could I Silver solder said joint ?

Cheers Grum.


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Going away for a few days so I thought I'd get this thread going again.  Of all the OU devices I've been involved with this is the only one where there is a plausible explanation for where the energy comes from.  Also I found that I am not the only one to have performed the slip-ring Marinov generator experiment, Stan Zuala got 2mV at 2000rpm, picture of his set up below.

What i would like to see is an experiment that shows DC induction into a coil, see image.  It needs a slip-ring driven at high speed with diametrically opposite brushes.  Current is passed across the slip ring from a DC source.  A multi turn coil is placed close to one of the brushes where, according to my math, it should get a DC voltage induced.  There will also be slip-ring noise that will need filtering out.  The coil needs as many turns as possible using fine gauge wire.  If someone could validate this it would pave the way for more extensive research into the phenomenon because if you can create DC  E field vortices they can be used to "load" the electron spins and orbits responsible for magnetization, and it is a route to extracting energy from a PM.

Anyone up for a try?  You would get some kudos for being the first person to demonstrate this hole in our knowledge, it would be worthy of a publication in a scientific journal.

Smudge

In one of Tesla's methods for conversion, we find him shorting a coil where AC is being induced on itself, doing so results in the production of unidirectional impulses, high voltage DC.  Fast forward and we see parallels in coil shorting experiments.  Through this method, DC is produced simply and effectively, and most importantly, without the need for proper rectification.  The problem with this method of conversion of AC to DC (off topic I know, however, I feel its related) is in all the familiar geometries, the secondary induced magnetic field interacts antagonistically with the inducing field.  When the circuit controller is activated, a  massive current is induced and Lenz works his magic.  The solution to this problem takes the form of what I refer to as a asymmetrical, mono-polar (the term mono-polar here refers to the utilization of both halves of the dipole) magnetic field.  This modification in geometry is applied to both inducing and induced circuits.  The result is dramatically reduced drag in all generation applications, but more importantly, in those circuits where unidirectional impulse currents are desired.

Please forgive my intrusion.


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I posted a paper on using the Earth's magnetic vector potential over on PhysicsProf's thread.  If I am right then the experiment shown in the image here should work.  It simply involves a slip ring being rotated in the Earth's vector potential and having brushes diametrically opposite each other.  The diagonal joining the brushes must be at right angles to the vector potential that runs E-W.  If the theory stacks up there should be a DC voltage across the brushes.  Swinging the thing through 180 degrees or changing the rotation direction should cause a reversal of the voltage.  Seems a simple method to prove or disprove the theory.

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I posted a paper on using the Earth's magnetic vector potential over on PhysicsProf's thread.  If I am right then the experiment shown in the image here should work.  It simply involves a slip ring being rotated in the Earth's vector potential and having brushes diametrically opposite each other.  The diagonal joining the brushes must be at right angles to the vector potential that runs E-W.  If the theory stacks up there should be a DC voltage across the brushes.  Swinging the thing through 180 degrees or changing the rotation direction should cause a reversal of the voltage.  Seems a simple method to prove or disprove the theory.

Smudge

Dear Smudge.

It's been a while but did you miss my post a couple up from this one?

Cheers Grum.


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Dear Smudge.

It's been a while but did you miss my post a couple up from this one?

Cheers Grum.


Sorry Grum, I did miss your post.  Yes the slip-ring is just a copper hoop on an insulated disc.  And it could be fabricated from copper tape with the ends silver soldered.  If you do make one then you could try this earth field experiment as well as replicating the Marinov generator experiment that I did where you place magnets close to the brushes.

While on this earth field stuff it strikes me that there could be an explanation for the weird machine in that Swiss commune that looks a bit like a Wimshurst machine.  The manner in which the grad(v.A) force field works on conduction electrons in a spinning disc is a little uncertain, but it could result in anomalous surface charge that could be bled off into capacitors (Leydon jars in that weird machine).

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Sorry Grum, I did miss your post.  Yes the slip-ring is just a copper hoop on an insulated disc.  And it could be fabricated from copper tape with the ends silver soldered.  If you do make one then you could try this earth field experiment as well as replicating the Marinov generator experiment that I did where you place magnets close to the brushes.

While on this earth field stuff it strikes me that there could be an explanation for the weird machine in that Swiss commune that looks a bit like a Wimshurst machine.  The manner in which the grad(v.A) force field works on conduction electrons in a spinning disc is a little uncertain, but it could result in anomalous surface charge that could be bled off into capacitors (Leydon jars in that weird machine).

Smudge

Dear Smudge.

I have an amazing stock of resources in my workshop, could you please provide a drawing of the apparatus required?

I can make a disc up to 14" in dia out of Polycarbonate sheet, various thicknesses up to 3/8" I also have Polypropylene and PVC sheet.

Copper sheets in 0.2 and 0.3 thickness.

I await a plan!     ;)

Cheers Grum.


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Dear Smudge.

I have an amazing stock of resources in my workshop, could you please provide a drawing of the apparatus required?

I can make a disc up to 14" in dia out of Polycarbonate sheet, various thicknesses up to 3/8" I also have Polypropylene and PVC sheet.

Copper sheets in 0.2 and 0.3 thickness.

I await a plan!     ;)

Cheers Grum.
Having got the little grey cells going on the Testatika thingy if you can wait a little while I will come up with a proof of concept experiment.
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I have decided to reactivate this bench.  Over the last two years I have looked at many texts dealing with the derivation of our electromagnetic laws and in particular those that use as a starting point the so-called hidden momentum or electro-kinetic momentum of a point charge within a magnetic vector potential.  In a nutshell this states that an electron of charge e within a vector potential A (bold character represents a vector) has a hidden (i.e. non-mechanical, not related to velocity) momentum eA.   To many schooled in classical mechanics the idea of a body possessing momentum that is not related to its velocity is hard to grasp.  However it should be realized that electro-dynamic or electro-kinetic forces are transmitted to a body via photons or sub-photons, and these invisible particles travelling at light velocity do carry momentum.  Thus the so-called hidden momentum could arise from some form of supplied momentum, supplied by interaction with those invisible space particles.

The upshot of this momentum approach is the derivation of our three well-known classical forces, (a) the Coulomb force expressed by the electric field E=-grad(phi) where phi is the potential from nearby charges, (b) transformer induction expressed as volts per turn V=-d(Phi)/dt  where Phi is the magnetic flux enclosed by the turn and (c) motional or flux-cutting induction expressed as E=vXB , this latter being taught by the use of Fleming’s LH and RH rules.  But the approach also brings up a third form of induction (d), an electric field that is the gradient of a scalar potential formed from the product of the tangential component of A along the velocity direction, expressed as EA=-gradA(v.A)  but with some components removed.  This restriction is usually expressed by stating where the gradient operates on A only and not on v (hence the subscript A in that formula).  What those authors then missed is a rather important aspect of this new induction.  All text books will tell you that the closed line integral of something that is the gradient of a scalar is zero, and it is then assumed that this applies to the new term, and that says it is impossible to induce a voltage into a closed circuit and the Marinov generator will not work.  The books then go on to say that the closed line integral of any E field can have only two possible voltage values, either (a) equal to the rate of change of magnetic flux passing through that closed line or (b) zero if there is no enclosed magnetic flux or if the flux is constant. 

I have looked carefully at the derivations by examining every component of the vector identities to see which components of EA=-gradA(v.A)  have to be discarded.  This reveals that voltage can be induced into a closed circuit.  It is possible to have electrons travelling at a trivial velocity (e.g. drift velocity within a conductor) over part of the loop and at high velocity (e.g. carried in a slip-ring) over the remaining part of the loop, and then it is possible for voltage to be induced into that closed circuit.  Of course it requires a non-uniform A field to be present, such as that presented by the magnets in the Marinov generator.  Using this new induction term the Marinov generator will work.

As this is something that defies our classically taught electrodynamics I think it important to prove or disprove the existence of this new term.  It should be possible to create an experiment that produces up to 100mV DC, not the 3mV of my earlier work with BGB.  The downside of the Marinov generator is its low voltage, if it really works it is a low voltage high current machine.  The upside is that it should be overunity, its power is not taken from the drive shafts but comes from the quantum dynamos (the electron circulations) within the magnets.  It seems possible to combine an OU Marinov generator mechanically driven by, and electrically connected to, a non-OU homopolar motor, perhaps using rolling contacts to avoid brush friction, resulting in a free running machine.
(Edit minor changes)

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Forget my earlier posts about using the earth's magnetic field, the induction I was expecting won't occur.  Here is an image of the Marinov motor taken from another document but modified to place a load resistor where the drive battery was.  This basically depicts the Marinov generator (but ignore the current and/or the rotation directions, they will be wrong for the generator).  It requires a slip ring within which the magnets can be placed, so it can't be a copper hoop on the outer edge of a plastic disc.  If anyone has an old toroidal winding machine that can be modified, that could be used since it drives a circular shuttle that could become the slip ring.
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Your paper from 2009.
   
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Hello Smudge
 What is the difference between this new proposal and the BGB Engineering Ltd experiment you performed?
 Rgds
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Hi Cortazar,

At BGB I only had access to one of their standard slip rings so it was not possible to have anything inside it.  I just had some disc magnets placed close to the brushes.  The slip ring was therefore within a magnetic B field and that raises doubt about the modus operandi.  For a real test we require a closed magnetic circuit like a magnetized ring core or two parallel bar magnets with keepers across the ends so that there is only the magnetic vector potential A field around it, i.e. no B field outside the magnet.  And that magnet has to be within the slip ring so it requires a clever mechanical arrangement to drive and support the ring.

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If I had the time I would build this maybe later, so I started with a preliminary drawing. All minor details of the drawing will be added later as time permits but should be easy for the moderately skilled mechanical builder.

Version 2 allows torque indication on the magnet assembly as it is free to pivot against a spring.

Regards


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Here's how I did it, for the motor version. A triaxial axis was arranged so that the stator ring, the magnet assembly and the brush/power supply assembly could all rotate independently about the vertical axis of the assembly.

I used another different test rig but with the same co-axial suspension idea to explore the generator version.

A large copper vacuum flange gasket is ideal for the "slip ring" or stator.

Brushes should be rigged so that they can contact the stator ring either from outside edge or inside edge. This is very important!

Also, allow fringing fields from the magnet rotor assembly. If you use "keepers" make sure that you can also test without them.

There is a lot to be learned from this little gadget and its variations. Is it "merely" a homopolar motor/generator with unusual geometry, or is there really something to Marinov's claims about the vector potential "field"?


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Thanks ION and TK for your interest in this.  I have researched a number of technical papers that all get to that truncated gradient of the electro-kinetic potential as an additional term to be added to the classical ones.  I'll try to precis all that information and publish it here.  What all those authors have missed is the fact that the truncation, the elimination of all terms involving velocity changes, gives that term a special characteristic in that a closed line integral (the emf induced into a closed circuit) is not necessarily zero or null.  Only in the case where the speed of the electrons are constant is the emf zero, so for a normal closed electrical circuit where drift speeds are negligible you will get close to a null.  But with the slip-ring generator the electrons (and ions) in the slip ring are not travelling at trivial velocity, and our closed electrical circuit carrying load current has two regions (the brush tips) where there is a sudden jump in electron velocity.  Electrons that are suddenly accelerated radiate an electric field and I have shown that field to have unusual characteristics; taken one electron at a time I have shown if the jump occurs where there is an A field then the radiated E field will apply a load to the electric current circulations that supply that A field.  There is therefore a good reason for the Marinov generator to be OU with the energy being taken from the atomic magnetic dipoles within the magnets.  Whether this has a cooling effect on the magnets is yet to be seen, but I think there is a link to the virtual particles that comprise the aether and that could be the energy source. 

With various people having experimented with the Marinov motor, I am surprised that no one seems to have played with the generator version.  The only evidence I can find is the Distinti Paradox 2 experiment.  One pointer to this being possible is the Solunin-Kostin experiment where he placed a magnetized ring core around the neck of a CRT near the cathode, and demonstrated that the A field could create a deflection of the beam.

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If I had the time I would build this maybe later, so I started with a preliminary drawing. All minor details of the drawing will be added later as time permits but should be easy for the moderately skilled mechanical builder.

Version 2 allows torque indication on the magnet assembly as it is free to pivot against a spring.

Regards

The magnet assembly need not be the elongated pair of bar magnets with keepers, it could be a magnetized ring core.  Unfortunately you can't buy a magnetized ring core made of hard magnetic material where the field is all within the core as there is no demand for such a thing.  You can get circular arc segment magnets from KJ Magnetics and make a magnetized ring from them, FEMM simulation attached.

Alternatively a soft magnetic ring core magnetized by a DC energized toroidal coil.  Or if the induction is real then why not have that toroid AC energized, then the device will deliver AC.  That would allow for voltage to be stepped up to something useful by using a transformer.  Should still be OU as the energy would come from loading applied to the dipoles in the core, not from the current in the toroidal excitation coil.

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I have modified ION's image to show the use of a ring core.  To fit the image it appears elliptical.
Smudge
   
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