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2018-11-14, 04:37:53
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Author Topic: 80% water-20% fuel  (Read 13942 times)

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On December 31 i will be presenting my advancements on water/fuel ratio's to run an ICE. So far i/we (the we is my friend who is a chemist)have developed a system in which we use a water to fuel ratio of 4:1-with out loss of mechanical output power.This is something myself and a friend have been working on for over a year now. Chet dose know a little about the system,and also the trouble we have had with pistion dammage. It would seem that we have over come the piston dammage by way of injecting HHO into the system. Before the HHO injection was incorperated into the system,we had(at best) a 3:2 ratio of water to fuel. So not only has the HHO injection stopped piston dammage,it has also increased the water to fuel ratio to 4:1.

Although we will be releasing the video on the 31st of December that shows(at the moment) a fuel mix of 80% water,and 20% fuel,we hope to have bettered this even more by the release date.The video below is a simplified version of the HV cell driver that we are using on the HHO injection side of the system.The driver is very simple,and nothing to speacial about it-->but it gives excellent results,and allows us to use tap water without any Elite. O0. Although our HV driver is a little more advanced than the one in the video,we are open to any sort of HV driver you may have that might be a little more efficient than that of what we currently have-->maybe just a better way of achieving the same result's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyW4dR4cUQM



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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
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Inductors, capacitors and spark gaps...

Has Mr. Tesla been whispering in your ear?


Very nice TinMan.  Thank you for sharing.   O0
   

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Very well done Brad O0, the part i'm interested in is what type of damage was being done to the piston before adding HHO?

I like the way you developed the HV nano pulse, as Matt said, a touch of Mr. T.

Looking foreward to 31st Dec:

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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Good stuff Brad!

A standard petrol ICE has a 1 : 14.7 fuel to air ratio. Liquid fuel and Gas air injected at the correct ratio of oxidiser (oxygen) present in the air, to maintain the narrow range combustion is possible within the flammability limits for that fuel.

Once you add water a third working fluid has been introduced to the system, a liquid, which is competing with Nitrogen for heat available from the oxidised fuel combustion reaction. Flash vaporisation of water to steam will be going but your combustion process may be inhibited.

Adding a fourth fluid to the system a gas, hho, will increase combustion ability and dump a lot of heat into the process, increasing nitrogen pressure and adding oxidiser to the fuel therefore running lean.

The ratio has gone from 1 : 14.7 with 1 Liquid and 1 Gas, to 1 (0.8 ~ 0.2 ~ ?) : 14.7 with 2 Liquids and 2 Gases. The quantity of hho injected is not given in the post information and so is reperesented by a ?

Quite a lot going on here  with 4 working fluids in the system.. well done!


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   

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Thanks for the positive comments guy's.

A little more info for you all.

The HHO system.
At the moment,we are injecting around 7LPM of HHO gas into the engine,which is running at a steddy 2300RPM. I am useing the dry cell that was made for me by Darrell-(darrellsrealm on youtube) ,and he also shipped it to me all at his own expence-->so a big thank you go's out to him.The HHO is injected useing the gas injector sent to me by Chet-at his own expence as well. So a big thanks to Chet also.The HHO cell is being driven via 1 of the phases of the 3 phase altinator with a circuit similar to what you saw in the video.

A little about the altinator mod's.
The altinator is from a truck(thanks to my boss) that runs a 24 volt system,and is rated at 150 amp's.
I have retained the diodes in the altinator,and also the voltage regulator-but only on two of the three phases. The P/out from the altinators third phase is now adjustable via a 24 volt PWM that powers the rotors electromagnet.This also allows me to adjust the pulse frequency going to the HHO cell-although we are limited due to the laminated steel stator of the altinator.The inductive kickback from the electromagnet on the rotor of the altinator when the PWM switches off for each part of the cycle,is sent back to the battery bank that runs the PWM. Believe it or not,the inductive kickback provides enough return power to the battery bank to run the PWM 100%. This is due to the residual magnetism and collapsing magnetic field of the stator coils around the rotor coil,and is what is giving us the 100%+ return to the battery(no OU sorry guys).


The engine.
The engine is a 6.5HP chonda(chinese honda),and the alternator is direct coupled to the engine.
The problem we were having with our fuel/catalyst/water mix was it kept peeling the pistons(same effect as detonation).No matter how much we retarded the timeing,we couldnt stop this peeling.We even went to the trouble of having 1 piston ceramic coated(at much expense),but it peeled the coating of as well after 5 hours of run time under load. After a 10 hour run today with the HHO injection,the piston looks brand new-not even any carbon black on it.The oil in the crank case also looks nice and clean-no water contamination to be seen.The timeing also seems to be best left at the factory setting. I believe this is due to the fact that we are still useing some gasoline as the fuel source,and is slowing the burn of the HHO.

The fuel mix.
ATM we are useing 20% gasoline,10% catalyst,and 70% water-->with the addition of the 7LPM of HHO.
The catalyst is to remain with me and my partner ATM,but the rest of the system is of course -open source.

Our test method ATM
Our load is a string of incandecent party lights that places around a 600 watt load on the generator.We simply measure the voltage across the light string so as to maintain the same load throughout the testing.The engine is also goverened,so speed remains constant.
We first run the unit on straight gasoline,and use a set volume of 200mL. We simply time each run,and record the result's.We then add the 700mL of water,and 100mL of catalyst to the gasoline,and run the test again,with the HHO as well of course.To achieve the 240 volts needed from the 24 volt altinator,we simply use a 24 v to 240 v inverter-->in this case,a UPS,so as we get a true sine wave output.

We are still working on getting the gasoline ratio down even further,but at this time it seems we have reached the limit with the materials  and funds we have at hand.


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Brad
I must add
 after I sent out the Injectors ,Steve Jones [Physics Prof]added some money to _that_ fund .
so he helped pay for That injector

good stuff

Chet
   

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Brad
I must add
 after I sent out the Injectors ,Steve Jones [Physics Prof]added some money to _that_ fund .
so he helped pay for That injector

good stuff

Chet
A  big thanks to Steve as well then O0


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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Everyman decries immorality
The ratio is:

1 (0.1c + 0.2f + 0.7w + ?h) : 14.7 (14.7a? + ?o)

where,

c = catalyst
f = fuel
w = water
h = hydrogen
a = air
o = oxygen

The 1 denotes the fuel measure side of the equation and the 14.7 denotes the oxidiser side of the equation.

"hho" appears on both sides of the equation as it's constituent gases each perform one of the required functions; hydrogen for fuel and oxygen to oxidise the reaction.

The ? denote unknown quantities, will have to work them out from the information given.


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   

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The engine.
The engine is a 6.5HP chonda(chinese honda),and the alternator is direct coupled to the engine.
The problem we were having with our fuel/catalyst/water mix was it kept peeling the pistons (same effect as detonation).  No matter how much we retarded the timing, we couldn't stop this peeling.  We even went to the trouble of having 1 piston ceramic coated (at much expense), but it peeled the coating of as well after 5 hours of run time under load. After a 10 hour run today with the HHO injection, the piston looks brand new-not even any carbon black on it.  The oil in the crank case also looks nice and clean-no water contamination to be seen.  The timing also seems to be best left at the factory setting.  I believe this is due to the fact that we are still using some gasoline as the fuel source, and is slowing the burn of the HHO.

The fuel mix.
ATM we are using 20% gasoline, 10% catalyst, and 70% water--> with the addition of the 7LPM of HHO.
The catalyst is to remain with me and my partner ATM, but the rest of the system is of course -open source.

Was the "peeling" of the piston a problem before
injecting of the HHO when your engine was fueled
with the gasoline/catalyst/water mix?   Or was the
"peeling" caused by the HHO?

Is the function of your "catalyst" to serve as an
emulsifier in order to permit the gasoline and
water to blend into a mixture?  Or is your fuel
mixture mechanically blended before each run?

(Recent postings above by Centraflow and TinMan
have shed light on these questions.)

In any case, your results are certainly very encouraging.

A water/alcohol mixture can be used to fuel a gasoline
engine too, with very interesting results.  It helps to
have a very hot spark.

Injecting HHO seems to be very beneficial no matter
what kind of fuel is used.


---------------------------
"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   

Hero Member
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Posts: 2511


Buy me some coffee
Was the "peeling" of the piston a problem before
injecting of the HHO when your engine was fueled
with the gasoline/catalyst/water mix?   Or was the
"peeling" caused by the HHO?

Is the function of your "catalyst" to serve as an
emulsifier in order to permit the gasoline and
water to blend into a mixture?  Or is your fuel
mixture mechanically blended before each run?

(Recent postings above by Centraflow and TinMan
have shed light on these questions.)

In any case, your results are certainly very encouraging.

A water/alcohol mixture can be used to fuel a gasoline
engine too, with very interesting results.  It helps to
have a very hot spark.

Injecting HHO seems to be very beneficial no matter
what kind of fuel is used.
The peeling of the piston was a problem before the HHO injection. We suspect it was due to the water/catalyst mix reacting with the piston materials . We believe the HHO gas is some how protecting the piston now, although we are not sure of the extent of that protection yet-time will tell on this one. . Hopefully the problem is solved now. The catalyst is to allow the fuel and water to mix, just as methylated spirits dose, but on a much larger scale-and you can grow it in your garden, but enough said on that for now.


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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Posts: 1954
The peeling of the piston was a problem before the HHO injection. We suspect it was due to the water/catalyst mix reacting with the piston materials . We believe the HHO gas is some how protecting the piston now, although we are not sure of the extent of that protection yet-time will tell on this one. . Hopefully the problem is solved now. The catalyst is to allow the fuel and water to mix, just as methylated spirits dose, but on a much larger scale-and you can grow it in your garden, but enough said on that for now.

Can you smoke it :D

 ;D ;D

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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Posts: 2511


Buy me some coffee
Well i finally found my post buried deep in the abyss.
Sorry as i am to say it,there will be no run tomorrow as stated due to mechanical failure. I have simply run out of parts for the motor,and have as yet to stop completely the piston damage. But this wasn't the problem this time,this time we dropped the conrod-big end let go. Not sure why,but she is a no fix job until i get another crank and rod.

Sorry guy's,but i cant deliver at this point in time.


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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Everyman decries immorality
Thanks Brad,

Things do not always go according to plan. You are respected in this community for your honesty and inventive talent, I do not see that changing anytime soon!

 O0


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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Thanks for letting us know Brad

Looking forward to see it when ever you get it working again even though it not perfected.

Luc
   
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Sorry guy's,but i cant deliver at this point in time.

Let this be a lesson--never set a date.  You will be ready, when you are ready.

Looking forward to seeing it, however long it takes.
   

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Well it's time to get back to this experiment-sorry for the long Waite guys.

I have managed to find enough parts to put together another motor O0. So just a quick video on how that went. I ended up using the motor that i modified for that heat/gas engine project-->what ever happened to that?. Anyway,i am working on the base ATM,and hope to have it done by nights end.

The purpose of this project is to show how much we can increase the efficiency of an ICE by adding water. So as you all know what is going on,we will start at the beginning,and along the way,please put forward your idea's as to other things we can try. I am happy to be diverted from the path i took in this research,as the ideas and advancements i have made may not be the best we can do.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZxenOgleAY


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
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