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Author Topic: MMG - a high ohm motor with potential  (Read 21913 times)

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Quote from: Slider2732 link=topic=2784.msg46003#msg46003 date=1423948146


Am going to build a crystal radio ;)
[/quote

Dear Slider2732.

Never mind a Crystal set, try this......

http://www.panospappas.gr/FREEENERGY.htm

I used a 75 foot long single PVC insulated, stranded Copper wire at 0.75 mm sq, aerial. Slung from the house roof and off down to a suitable tree. I never got less than 2 V DC and up to 4 V DC on a cyclic 24 hr basis.

PJ Kelly's book also has reference to this and has sited that these simple modules can be " Ganged " to give better output.

Worth a try !!  ;)

Cheers Grum.


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 O0
That's the same circuit as I used when it was running from the table light !
See how that middle line is somewhat dashed out on the drawing ? i found that omitting it seemed to give better throughput.

A couple of years back experiments were undertaken with something similar, as a way to collect radiant energy without getting blasted to smithereens during storms here in Oklahoma. Coax ran across and back along our back garden fence a few times.
I've reused the wire since within BAC'S (wireless energy large pancake coils), but you've reminded me about it all and such sources, thanks :)
Here's a vid of that:

[youtube]xO5XddWlqq4[/youtube]



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Yes indeed, am always a fan too of using the Earth for powering things. It was just another of those little goals, that never seemed to quite get there in the past. It helped that I found the magnesium fire starter in a box today lol


Some news - i've managed to get the motor down to using just 10.3uA  :D
The coils were slightly altered in distance..in fact moving the powering coil slightly away reduced the current, which seems opposite to what was expected. Perhaps it's the eddy currents in 2K of copper wire ?
All of which has been delaying moving to double reed firing, which i'm really quite interested in. If 10.3uA can be achieved electronically, i really wonder about the reed system now.

With attaining the 2 goals of the day, i've uploaded a public version of the experiments.
It's of use in the thread though, because it shows that crazy good current draw:

[youtube]1yqyHv5tNhE[/youtube]


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Wow!  that is great progress, Mark!   O0
  Spinning away at 1 V and 10.3 micro-amps, so about 10 uW.  That is truly remarkable!

And thanks for providing additional links in the caption, also -- truly open-source research you are conducting!
   
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Thanks for the kind comments Steve :)
In the comments on the video, Tony Ward has put "Can you get this device to charge a real battery while it is running "on dirt"?"
Thinking about such an idea, the motor has been converted to charge a 1.2V AAA. The diode plus cap returning from the Collector is now just the diode, the battery is connected to the diode and the Positive power input side. It's set up like an SSG.
Starting voltage was 1.237V under the indoor light and i'll go back to it in half an hour to see about any change.
At a few uA and 2K of resistance it may not do anything, but is worth a go :)

Must be able to find 10uW from somewhere !


Edit -
After half an hour, the voltage is 1.240V
3mV lol, but it would be useful if run constantly. Use batteries over a week, replace with charged, that sort of scenario.
Also, it allowed a current reading without the diode + cap spike return, of 16.7uA.
Therefore the return method does work still at such low input levels, reducing current by 6.4uA.

« Last Edit: 2015-02-15, 03:37:59 by Slider2732 »


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Some updates -
Patrick (Cool Joule) mentioned running the motor in the A field. That means turning the drive coil sideways, but i'm unsure what it's supposed to do for running characteristics. His 'Reply' button isn't enabled, so could one of you gents explain that to me ? :)
I'm a little reticent to change that coil, as it's in the best spot found up to now.
 
Powdered ferrite is doing well !
What I have are 2 different methods that are being tested. The first, is a dusting of CRT yoke ferrite on paper, using white glue to stick it. The second, is a filling of a small piece of a drinks straw.
They have been initially tried behind a 4x 500ohm coil stack, being used as a pickup coil.
Slow turning of the rotor shows seemingly no negative impact or cogging....perhaps due to the back of the coil being a good distance from the magnets.
As an example, when running, the pickup may show 1.000V. Adding the paper behind the coil turns that to 1.1V.
Next up, is to try different lengths of the straw, but also to increase the depth of ferrite dust on the paper until cogging is noticed at the slow test RPM's.

Reed switch placement has been tried. The idea was 2, side by side in series, on top of the driving coil.
The problem seems to be that my setup uses small broken bits of magnets and their field has trouble reaching up over the top of the coil (?). Also, the pull of the reeds upsets balance...a deficiency in the semi-levitated method i'm using.
That idea was to base it on the PDF as kindly linked by AllCanadian. I like the multiple ring characteristics of the Ossie motor.  
Still, on their way are a bunch of 8mmx1mm magnets, which by being larger might well allow that configuration to be properly tried out.


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  Lidmotor has posted an interesting video,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClsghfUdxhU&feature=em-uploademail

  Seems Lidmotor is following what Slider is doing - and gives a nice tribute to Mark's work.   O0
   
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Thanks for posting the link Steve.
He's got a decent setup there, using 50V caps for safety (the CFL capable of charging the onboard caps to 35V) and 1N34A germanium diodes.
I presume the metal lampshade is isolated from mains wiring, so it would be possible to simply clip a lead to the circuit and maybe run it down the lamp for neatness, rather than use the foil as collector. The extra mass and far larger dimensions of the shade ought to offset the increased distance from the bulb.



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The 1N34 type of Germanium small signal diodes are
becoming rather rare.  It should be possible to replace
them with a modern Schottky small signal diode.

Schottky Diode Overview

Schottky Diode Applications Notes



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Thanks :)
I missed why you changed your name btw, or should say, anagram'd it.

There are still some germaniums around, but I do recognise their retreating into rarity. In fact, from a bag of 50 OA90's a year or so back, I keep looking for any old projects to remove them and reuse. 0.196V is the average meter tested forward voltage and there were 1 or 2 with 0.175V.
Also, there can be worlds of difference when running in such circuits, so it is all noted about Schottky's. Relates well to crystal radios, with this article being a good read, discussing various germaniums that the tester tried:
http://baec.tripod.com/articles/crystal.htm

We've got snow and it's 38F where the workbench is, so I aint there lol
Next up, is to be EZ Spin type single coils around the rotor, along with the main run and trigger coils. The single large coil as pickup isn't really performing for charging, in comparison to single coils. Perhaps it's the increased depth vs magnet field distance. I also want to try the ferrite behind single coils.
Then a remote rotor and to series connect the output with the rotor pickup coils. I'm looking for 1.4V by any means that the motor can provide. The amperage ought to be >12uA from such means, time will tell.
And, to get some scoping done of waveforms and of changes that result when testing. Every placement and result has being eyeballed up to now, which needs to be refined.


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Oh, no reason in particular.  Just happened to notice one day
that there were some 'possibilities' with re-arrangement of
the letters...

Yep, diodes of the same type can have peculiarities;  some are
definitely better than others.  Reminds me of my days aboard
ship as an Electronics Technician Striker.  I used to spend a lot
of time 'tuning' our Air Search Radar (AN/SPS-6C) and discovered
how to find the really 'hot' mixer diodes.  With a really good diode
the range of the old radar could be extended out to over 250 miles
for any aircraft that were flying high enough.

I miss those good old days!


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I have an original cardboard box with 50 of these.....

Great for crystal radio sets  O0


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Thanks for posting that article, it made me dig out my diode stash and do some testing.

I have a few genuine point-contact 1n34 or 1n34a and 1n60, and they measure 0.249 - 0.270 Fv on my diode checker. I found one that measures 0.247, it is marked "12101 3CT". Another has no numbers but has black, gold, red and green color bands and measures 0.257 Vf.

For comparison, a 1n5711 Schottky measures 0.372 Vf and a 1n4148 measures 0.686 Vf, and a 1n4004 rectifier gives 0.600 Vf.

I have some marked 1n270 gold-bonded Ge point-contacts pulled from old TV chassis, they measure 0.252-0.258.

But a 1n5817 Schottky measures 0.181 !!  Testing four others from that batch: 0.178 -0.182 Vf.  A 1n5819 gives 0.220.
Retesting a 1n270 gives 0.256, same as before.

I'm going to try one of those 5817s in my crystal set right away!

Meter is El Cheepo XL830L with smoothjaw gator clips as probes for good contact.


Thanks :)
I missed why you changed your name btw, or should say, anagram'd it.

There are still some germaniums around, but I do recognise their retreating into rarity. In fact, from a bag of 50 OA90's a year or so back, I keep looking for any old projects to remove them and reuse. 0.196V is the average meter tested forward voltage and there were 1 or 2 with 0.175V.
Also, there can be worlds of difference when running in such circuits, so it is all noted about Schottky's. Relates well to crystal radios, with this article being a good read, discussing various germaniums that the tester tried:
http://baec.tripod.com/articles/crystal.htm

We've got snow and it's 38F where the workbench is, so I aint there lol
Next up, is to be EZ Spin type single coils around the rotor, along with the main run and trigger coils. The single large coil as pickup isn't really performing for charging, in comparison to single coils. Perhaps it's the increased depth vs magnet field distance. I also want to try the ferrite behind single coils.
Then a remote rotor and to series connect the output with the rotor pickup coils. I'm looking for 1.4V by any means that the motor can provide. The amperage ought to be >12uA from such means, time will tell.
And, to get some scoping done of waveforms and of changes that result when testing. Every placement and result has being eyeballed up to now, which needs to be refined.



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Well, the Schottky doesn't work in my Crystal set.  :-[

 It still picks up signal, but no modulation except for some random noise source that is happening, I think the neighbor is warming up his truck. With the original 1n34 or the galena crystal I get good strong modulation from the religious music station as usual. This is using my Slinky antenna and no real ground, and the LED is flickering dimly. But not with the Schottky.


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Well, the Schottky doesn't work in my Crystal set.  :-[

Unless the Schottky is specifically rated for RF the higher possible reverse current will load the tank causing lower Q and sensitivity. Even the ones rated for RF have a bit of a tendency for a drop in junction capacitance as the signal increases. This will be seen as the circuit de-tuning itself on strong signals.

In short, only certain Schottky diodes are useful as a detector in a crystal set.


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Yes, what you've said is very true WaveWatcher.

The classic Crystal Detector device made from
Galena or Pyrite with a Catwhisker is the original
form of the Schottky Barrier.  It is the point
contact which enables it to work so well at Radio
Frequencies.

Finding the mass produced Schottky Diode which
is point contact and sufficiently sensitive may take
some searching and testing.

There was a great deal of variation in the old
Microwave Mixer Diodes and for every dozen there
may be one or two which were really 'hot.'  Testing
the diodes with an Ohmmeter set for a high resistance
reading was very helpful in sorting them out.  The
AN/PSM-4 series was the meter of choice in the old
days.
 


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Thanks for those links TK :)
I do know that my own OA90's were about that Chinese price and, in fact, i'll order some more at the beginning of the month.
Anyone know where old projects go to hide ? lol it's maddening how if given a year, about 40 of an original 50 can't be found !

Laughed heartily at the religious radio station line. Yep, same here, they have some stunning broadcasting gear it seems and bleed through right over the top of anything else quite readily. Well, a direct connection to up above must help.
Saying that, those stations do force some skills learning with wavetraps and such.
There's a couple of 500,000 Watt flamethrowers from the Eastern states that I can get loud and clear here in OK, on a Mystery coiled crystal set. Typically Chicago for North and Louisiana for South, on good nights. I really must get back into it and am delighted to read the info from Wavewatcher too.  
Am very glad that you guys share the radio hobby.
If I may indulge - being from the UK, i'd heard of Art Bell and his radio show, but had never heard Coast to Coast live. Moving to the USA I decided to build my own radio that would pick up the iconic Georgio Moroder 'Midnight Express' theme tune. That first time I tuned in, heard the music and then the much preferred George Knapp as host has sat with me...yep, must get back into crystal sets !  
It's a pretty good use for George Noory too, for him to power a pulse motor lol
  
Oh, finally, for those who don't mind free powering a non crystal set for AM. The TA7642 is wholeheartedly recommended.
http://www.oddwires.com/content/TA7642.pdf
You can use a crystal set coil with them. Whole homemade radios can fit in a slim type matchbox, with a calculator solar panel on top.


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I love old stuff being old, especially crystal radio's because they were the basis of T.H.moray's work who was the master of this trade bar none. However the problem is abstract, if we build a bigger antenna the resistance rises thus we gain but we also lose. We also have issues with our detector and the voltage drop across it concerning selectivity as well as sensitivity. I mean it is a miracle the damn thing works at all when we think about it.

So what was Moray doing that we are not?, if you guy's knew I think you would shake your head and maybe a face palm or two. Part of my solution was understanding I was doing everything wrong, I was trying to increase sensitivity by first biasing my detector theshold to near zero. That is I added a parallel circuit to bias my detector within obscene levels of it's theshold ie. voltage drop increasing it's sensitivity. Next I tried zero theshold mosfets with a very low RDS On, low gate voltage which was prebiased but again there is no getting around the fact we cannot get what is not already present. I learned sensitivity is not power but Moray was talking about power, he was talking about 20k watts from a 80 foot wire antenna with a six foot ground rod. I mean the guy was light years ahead of his time as was this man.

https://vimeo.com/31399217


AC


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I'd no idea about the Maple syrup side to Cook's story, thanks for the video :)
Will have a look at 119,825, interesting Patent to explore.
The flying machine has been rescued and restored I hope ?

Didn't Moray dope the diodes with uranium or some such ?


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Well this is odd. I wonder how lenz would treat it. http://youtu.be/a6L7BSu8iE8 May have an application in your motor.
Robert Murray smith has just replicated
   

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Well this is odd. I wonder how lenz would treat it. http://youtu.be/a6L7BSu8iE8 May have an application in your motor.
Robert Murray smith has just replicated

So have I. Unfortunately I also included a couple of control experiments along with my "replication". The video is being processed now and will be uploaded in an hour or so. I'll post a link when it's ready.

Noble 3d Printers LLC is located in Las Vegas, Nevada. It would be nice if we could get someone in the Southern Hemisphere at around the same latitude, but S instead of N, to do the same experiment with the same kind of sewing thread. (Do the manufacturers twist thread in the opposite direction "down under"?) Oh well, just use Chinese thread. Does the magnet stack spin in the opposite direction in Australia?


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Robert Murry Smith's replication used wax thread so as there is no unwinding of the thread.

He also stated it increased speed wth time, he is in the south of England

regards

mike 8)

P.S. arn't those HD mags cross magnetised?


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Robert Murry Smith's replication used wax thread so as there is no unwinding of the thread.
Doesn't necessarily follow. Some kinds of waxed thread, like dental floss, may not be twisted fibers, other kinds may be twisted, and the wax isn't going to prevent unwinding of the twist. Also, it depends on how you take it off the spool. You can put a twist in previously untwisted thread by spooling it off the end of the spool rather than letting the spool roll as you take it off the side. Wax or fiber lay isn't going to prevent that kind of twist from affecting the experiment.
Quote
He also stated it increased speed wth time, he is in the south of England
So it must be spinning quite fast by now. Right?    ;)
Certainly if the hypothesis about the Earth's rotation being the cause of the spin is correct, it might be stronger at higher latitudes. I am at about 29 degrees N latitude.
Do we know anyone in Australia who can repeat the experiment to see if it spins clockwise instead of CCW?

Tinman, are you out there somewhere?

Quote
regards

mike 8)

P.S. arn't those HD mags cross magnetised?
I can't find my green magnet viewing film at the moment, but I can tell that they do have a strange magnetization pattern. Some people have said they have 2 N and 2 S poles each. They are certainly super strong, that's for sure.
I'll try scanning one with my Hall sensor scanner after a while, maybe I can learn something about the magnetization pattern that way.


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 ;D  it's just taken off for outer space :D

Of course it gets to the point where the windup of the cotton slows it down and then to a stop and unwinds. I suppose the proof of the pudding is to leave it like that and see if it eventually stops C.C but there again, thinking about that it will eventually have an equilibrium between magnet power and windup, and then it would stop :D

fun and games keeps us young ;D

regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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