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Author Topic: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence  (Read 54721 times)

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Dear All.

Chet spoke to me this morning regarding the above titled topic, and in particular, the claim by Clarence of a self sustaining system.

Here is a link to the thread over at OU. Com.

http://www.overunity.com/13721/energy-from-the-ground-self-powered-generator-by-barbosa-and-leal/1110/#.VR6nRXlFBaQ

It seems that Chet is not too far away from the supplier of the Ferrite primaries that Clarence is using. He is suggesting that maybe someone could try out a replication ??

Cheers Grum.


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Dear All.

I was privy to some information way before that thread was started from OU member ARIOVALDO. Who had purchased one of Barbosa and Leal's devices directly. At a very heavy personal cost he then dissected the device and made the internal construction known to all interested parties !!   O0

I have attached a photo of the " Heart " , clearly an electric motor stator with windings removed.

Cheers Grum.


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Grum
I suppose I will be doing a replication of this one [since I can go see the manufacturer /importer ...?
To be honest I have not really followed that thread from Day one ,and I had the opinion that they
were doing a groundloop ...[I have been tricked by that before]
However That has completely changed since the claim of complete Grid Autonomy has been made.
when Clarence made the 20-80 comment I thought he was reffering to 20% from the mains.
NO it seems 20% from the battery driven inverter yields 80% mire power to use
100 watts in 400 watts out.... :o

Clarence seems a most genuine and sincere man ,We all know an inverter can run a load,now it would be nice to
know how Clarence has measured this ..?or has he already mentioned??

Brad had the impression he was using lightbulbs??
any one know??
Clarence most recent comment was 12KW...thats a Lotta Bulbs??[doesn't sound right]

of course I must add I can't tell you how badly I would love to see this work...
I want to send Tariel and the shark a big Hug  for wasting sooo much of our time ......

BUT, who knows... we shall see .

no stone left unturned.


Chet K
   

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Dear Matt.

Yes, I am almost sure that is the correct schematic. If you read the thread there was some consultation via PM between Clarence, wistity and Void. wistity is a member here so perhaps will shed some better knowledge than I can ?

Dear Chet.

A replication, good for you !!   O0

Aking.21 and I were almost 100% certain that the B&L device was no more than a Single Wire Earth Return  ( SWER ) capture device. Think of the consequences if the word got out that you could intercept your countries electricity for next to nothing !!   :D

Perhaps you should reach out to Clarence ? Join him in here ? Just a thought !!  ;)

I am feeling a little grim ATM so please excuse my apparent lack of enthusiasm !!  ;)

Cheers Grum.


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Graham
Hoppy just asked him to take a reading between the neutral in his house and the ground rods,  In the US they go to the same place ,should be zilch in the way of Volts .

Clarence has mains voltage between the two ....[120 V]...

Now I am also remembering that one device I was replicating and eventually stopped [Groundloop??]
the fellow was saying that he could actually get power between Grounds ...ONLY grounds...? on his property
and he even did experiments with his device in the forest ...same thing ,power manifested between grounds.

HOWEVER ,Nothing like Clarence is seeing...120 V on his Ground/neutral .
he's reading a phase off his neutral bar ??

however however...
he says no connection whatsoever to that Neutral ??????????
or does he not consider that neutral connection a mains connection??

needs some addressing,  if correct that reading is BAD

we shall see?

@Grum
just to be clear if I do go forward [once a few questions are answered] I will be
posting the replication results/progress.. at all the forums .


Chet K

« Last Edit: 2015-04-03, 21:20:09 by Chet K »
   

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Dear Chet.

Here in the UK we have the earth bonded to the neutral connection. In fact most modern single phase underground services are of " Concentric " construction, the outer sheath being both Neutral and Earth as one conductor and a central Live conductor.

Being rural, my place is served by overhead supply and has what is termed as PME,  Protective Multiple Earthing which ensures an earth bond right back to the Pole Transformer.

To answer your question, yes I would expect to see 220 V, why not ? It's just like any source of electrical power be it a Generator or Inverter, it has mains voltage, it will want to find a lower potential. If you look at the schematic part of his Live output hits the load and then goes to the ground rods. It might suggest there is quite a high ground resistance between his device and the service providers earth ?

I think the only way that we could be certain about the device is a long run at full load test. Matt's picture shows an 8 Kw battery, that could easily cope for quite a while !!  ;)

Cheers Grum.


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Grum
.

I see its a moot point if he's not touching his panel box or neutral as verified in schematic,
I see those two big wires coming onto the table are from his ground array not house ground or neutral [Matts post 5 above] .

apologies...


Chet





   

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OK so he has connected one of the inverter outputs to ground to make a neutral. And....
It looks to me as though the current loop is from one side of the inverter (active) through the load to the ground and the other inverter power wire made neutral which is attached to ground also.

If that self runs I'll eat my hat.

..
   
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OK so he has connected one of the inverter outputs to ground to make a neutral. And....
It looks to me as though the current loop is from one side of the inverter (active) through the load to the ground and the other inverter power wire made neutral which is attached to ground also.

If that self runs I'll eat my hat.

..

Good day Farmhand

I'll second that emotion........ with one further observation:

The Primaries and Secondaries on BOTH toroids are connected to *L*..... being a Single Phase inverter, there is only one Line (phase), the *SAME* Line on both Toroids.

So, the Captor pick up coil is coupled inductively to *Line* and then directly to *Ground*..................

I don't see any capacitors and/or resonant features on the Captor pick up loop.

It looks to me as if the Inverter Neutral is connected to the load thru his *Ground* rod system.  Which is probably why he needs 60 some ground rods to complete the circuit.

I don't see the mechanism at play here, maybe I am missing something :D

take care, peace
lost_bro
« Last Edit: 2015-04-04, 06:11:47 by lost_bro »
   

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Don't try to claim OU on Tesla's behalf that he did not claim. I have yet to see anything from Tesla that claims more energy out than he caused to be input for any of his "transmission systems". In fact I have seen him state the efficiencies as under unity. "Nickola Tesla on his Work with Alternating Currents".

If this setup is self running it's nothing to do with Tesla.

And the system still contains a battery. With a Lead acid battery in the system in - out measurements need to be made because a lead acid battery is capable of maintaining voltage while decreasing it's charge for a period at least.

I have shown a lead acid battery supplying a couple of amps or so to an inverter and the battery voltage at first drops then rises before settling into a very slow drop in voltage as compared to the amount of charge removed.

Maybe if a 5 or 7 amp hour 12 volt battery was used the result might look different. Or if the load was several hundred Watts.

..

   
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Looks like the same principle as for Игорь Соколовский transformer  C.C
   
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I was intrigued by Ramsets interest and so have read the last 20 pages or so of the OU thread . I  love Clarence's focus and intention, without getting involved in the does it,doesn't it debate and the endless 'measurists' injections, just a few thoughts on why it may.
It may not be well known but in the early days of telegraph given choices of route the ground was dowsed for the better route,
The engineers had discovered that working this way the systems could sometimes run using no 'real power' by that phrase I don't mean It used 'no power' but rather no power that is apparent to us (at the moment) It is if you like in a different dimension. Simple standard electric theory takes us this far let me introduce some of you to .. real power divided by apparent power which electricians know as 'power factor' and which they attempt to keep at unity. ( far away from this natural entity)

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_11/2.html
 
The two vector extremes 90 deg leading and 90 deg lagging you who are electronically based know as resonance series and parallel respectively. You Radio gentlemen will know the same thing as SWR of unity and SWR of infinity respectively, SWR unity you quest every time you tune to an antenna .
SWR infinity you never go near  … 'There be dragons'
This alternative resonance was the foundation of Tesla's Wireless system , read his court records he states over and over again “This is not an electromagnetic system” Still
To try and keep as simple as I may, that which  I seem to comprehend, please consider the front end of this crystal set


 
At a resonant frequency maximum voltage is developed across the parallel circuit  if the circuit were 'perfect' (Infinite Q) no current would flow what so ever .

here and now we consider the extreme 'other end' of the spectrum .. Series resonance , Huge current and very little voltage still .. before I go much further this is not current in the normal meaning of the word It is known by many AKAs  'reactive current' is its present text book term. In ye oldie  text books and certainly by Edward Leedskalnin the term ' Magnetic current' is used. In the ground its sometimes referred to as telluric current . .. There are many other names.
When being trained as an electrician I was taught reactive power and current can do no useful work …. well that might be so .. unless that is you consider charging batteries or heat useful !
Lord Voldemort …( he who's name must not be spoken) says this on the subject

"After my 35 years of experiments with the term "free energy" and "over unity machines". This is what it turns out to be "Reactive power" and that's it".

On this web page

http://merlib.org/node/5508

It would be my inclination to ask Clarence to expand on (as far as he may) his use of the fractal Quartz. Also buried heavily sulphated (fractal) batteries.
The nay Sayers and dis -info guys will obviously do all they can to prevent development of this (or any other viable) system for that matter . The  arguments ? For the most part exactly the same as they were 100 years ago with Moray  ..a/ your stealing power from the grid , In fact as I recall Moray had to travel miles from any power station or power lines and operate deep in a valley away from any radio station in order to silence tptb and their naysayer agents b/ earth trips and e'lectric.. ohhh its dangerous, of course it is ! So's crossing the road if you don't take precautions and do it right. So if your a nitwit don't play with this ! (or cross the road for that matter)
It does bring up the question for me... who owns telluric current ? The Russian guys on OU for all their abrasive 'old man' talk and not so veiled threats were probably right tptb will probably kill and suppress a lot more folks,... then tax the rods.
I happen to live in a country where for years tptb managed to tax day light. We had to smash the windows out of our homes and brick them up for inspection. In fact theres quite a lot still bricked up.
Whilst I don't appreciate the rudeness of the Russian I can see how he might confuse relating to a decent American  individual with the actions of the corporation run state machinery, and government .    

kind regards Duncan
« Last Edit: 2015-04-04, 11:41:53 by Duncan »


---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
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Farmhand: Tesla's radiant energy patent  is technically an ou device.
It delivers more energy out than in.

Simple.

Prove me wrong.

Stop knocking Tesla and making wrong statements.


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greetings Mr King very nice to talk with you again, It is clear I regard farmhand as being 'opposition' I have made no bones about that in the past. still he has replicated much of Tesla's work and some of his coils are quite magnificent! farmhand also has an extensive Tesla library and is obviously erudite on the subject. He has shared some of it. which was kind
It is this term 'over unity' (and I know I use it myself sometimes) It causes dis - harmony It doesn't really exist, even though it figures even in the name of our forum OUR by comparison the term COP>1 seems a lot more pedestrian but I'm sure you know as well as I do, it really is the right description,  Of course we all know what you mean, and it may seem like splitting hairs, but much as I hate to write it, farmhand is quite right Tesla never did claim 'over unity'  however COP>1  that's a very different thing, I'm sure were you to write  'technically a cop >1 device' honour would be satisfied. It is the job of opposition to prevaricate and delay progress , introduce red herrings, measurists are also not a big help with this stuff ... where would you or they measure this for instance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3F3ovb2kZ9Q

kind regards Duncan

 
« Last Edit: 2015-04-04, 12:53:02 by Duncan »


---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   
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It's turtles all the way down
Farmhand said:

Quote
I have shown a lead acid battery supplying a couple of amps or so to an inverter and the battery voltage at first drops then rises before settling into a very slow drop in voltage as compared to the amount of charge removed.

And this is common sense by all who accurately observe and measure battery discharge and plot the curves.. It is due to several factors, one of which is the warming up of the electrolyte, speedup of the chemical process.

Most newbs or otherwise uninitiated are fooled by this, claiming a battery charging effect by getting only to the rise in voltage portion of the discharge curve.

Those that eschew accurate measurement should take their "phlogiston" theories back into the age in which they belong.

For someone that attacks measurement and those who make them, Clarence has at least three power measuring Kill A Watt meters on the setup. Why does he not publish the data from those power meters? oh, that would make him a "measurementalist"... then why have the power meters?

Quote
It is the job of opposition to prevaricate and delay progress , introduce red herrings, measurists are also not a big help with this stuff ... where would you or they measure this for instance

A rather revealing statement from Duncan. Never mind measurement, it gets in the way??? I think it is the other way around, the blind believers, talkers and posers without proof or measurement "prevaricate and delay progress , introduce red herrings".

Well Duncan, I guess I might be included in your group called "opposition".
« Last Edit: 2015-04-04, 15:48:32 by ION »


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@ All
IMO measurement must rule the day ,I have to admit I got wires crossed at the Clarence thread.
His mentions of running household appliances and then adding more rods for bigger loads??
during those tests his charger was attached to the mains ....and that would suggest a possible groundloop .

Groundloops have wasted tons of time here.

in fact as TinMan pointed out ,so far he has run a light bulb, completely off Grid.

I do hope Clarence will continue to share his findings .

Chet







   

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Farmhand: Tesla's radiant energy patent  is technically an ou device.
It delivers more energy out than in.

Simple.

Prove me wrong.

Stop knocking Tesla and making wrong statements.

It does not work like that Mr King, it is your statement that is in error, and not Farmhand's.

I suggest you build Tesla's radiant energy device, demonstrate it's OU capability beyond any reasonable doubt, offer the device for third party replication and verification and then when vindicated.. make your statement.

A rather revealing statement from Duncan. Nevermind measurement, it gets in the way??? I think it is the other way around, the blind believers, talkers and posers without proof or measurement "prevaricate and delay progress , introduce red herrings".

Well Duncan, I guess I might be included in your group called "opposition".

It seems that the "opposition" group is the place where all sane experimenters and researchers reside, as such count me in! Don't bother with measurements to find OU ? What a complete load of bollocks!

The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.”  Tesla
« Last Edit: 2015-04-04, 14:49:26 by evolvingape »


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Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
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Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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All,

I see there is some confusion regarding the schematic for Clarence's design.  Attached is a corrected schematic by Clarence and also a confirmed redraw by Void.  This is taken from page 72 on the OU forum.

partzman
   
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All,

I see there is some confusion regarding the schematic for Clarence's design.  Attached is a corrected schematic by Clarence and also a confirmed redraw by Void.  This is taken from page 72 on the OU forum.

partzman

Good day All;

Between the two schematics, the *only* functional difference is the phase of the Captor pick up coil.  It has been flipped over.......
Besides that, it is electrically the *same* drawing.  (just stating the obvious) ;)

take care, peace
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You choose to miss the point Ion and evolvingape but if you wish to regard your bias as opposition , so be it.
With equipment such as this we enter uncharted waters, It is self evident that folks (like Clarance) push forward by feel instinct and determination I think thats a huge credit to the man.
Its probable that he like so many thousand others before will be brought low, That is too, a crying shame.
There is nothing 'revealing' as pointed out measurment won't work,after all how do you measure something that by definition has absolutly 'no real power In the present dogma ?
Clarence tells  us he's off grid , driving any equipment which he chooses  in a closed loop, that being so measurement becomes superfluous.
If folks wish to replicate Clarence's work IMHO they also need to get into his 'mindset'. His attitude to measurist's is very clear, a blind man on a galloping horse couldn't miss It. 
of course its very different to what we'd wish to achieve here, thats something simple and easily replicable.
I still think Clarance and what he has acomplished will be vindicated (if he's not silenced) as for 'bollocks' I can't help but wonder if they are what are actually keeping some peoples  ears apart!

kind regards Duncan



---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   

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You choose to miss the point Ion and evolvingape but if you wish to regard your bias as opposition , so be it.
No point missed, if there is a point missed please point it out!

There is nothing 'revealing' as pointed out measurment won't work,after all how do you measure something that by definition has absolutly 'no real power In the present dogma ?
No real Power In ? Listen to yourself.. Just because you cannot identify what the Power In is does not mean it is not there, or that it is not definable.

Clarence tells  us he's off grid , driving any equipment which he chooses  in a closed loop, that being so measurement becomes superfluous.
Clarence "tells us" being the key point, when Clarence "proves it" and makes the technology available for replicators to prove it, let us know.

If folks wish to replicate Clarence's work IMHO they also need to get into his 'mindset'.
No thanks, delusion has no place in honest research.

I still think Clarance and what he has acomplished will be vindicated (if he's not silenced) as for 'bollocks' I can't help but wonder if they are what are actually keeping some peoples  ears apart!
Maybe Clarence will be vindicated one day, and maybe not. It would be very helpful if all necessary data and a working prototype were provided to skilled "measurist's" for a qualified analysis to be done, until then it is "Clarence tells us"..

Bollocks keep ears apart ? Now that's news! If you recall it was not so long ago you were asked by Tinman to actually prove your many OU claims, he was there with the kit and the skills to actually build any one of your many claimed OU devices.. you failed to do so and shut up real quick.. so what's keeping your ears apart to spin the same bollock's on a new day eh!


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Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   

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Dear All.

This thread seems destined to crash and burn, like most of my other ones !!  ;D  Nice to see the different camps ( train of thought ) but we are digressing. I shall remain on the fence with this one as I posted earlier on, ARIOVALDO's device did not work in the USA but worked in Brazil !!  ;)

Dear evolvingape.

The Tesla radiant energy receiver that Mr King was referring to has been brought into the 20 th century, The Jes Ascanius’ Version of Nikola Tesla’s Aerial System is a well proven and practical device capable of re charging Mobile phone batteries ( Cell Phone ) perhaps not really useful as a whole home energy system but it's a start. Nearly as cheap as a Solar panel !!  ;)

Both Mr King and I have built these devices, my own device featured a 75 foot long aerial and a 3 foot Copper earth rod ( utility separated ) and used to power LED's. My own findings were that the output was very cyclic in nature. The maximum voltage attained was 6 V DC at around 10.30 AM every day, tapering off to 2 V DC  during the night. I monitored this for several weeks before moving on to other futile endeavours !!  :)

Cheers Grum.



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Re Tesla's radiant energy patent:
Use up to a meter square tin foil, shiny surface outwards. Link to Ascanius's 4 cap 4 diode collector system.
COP infinity.
Look at Tesla's  patent carefully and see how you can use modern tools. ;) That's all I'm prepared to say.
Been there done that got the T shirt.
I don't do idle pub talk.
Let those who have ears to hear, hear.


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VAR is just an angle on a scope. Nothing to see here -  move on.
   

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Re Tesla's radiant energy patent:
COP infinity.
You correct your error without having acknowledged you made it.

I don't do idle pub talk.
Let those who have ears to hear, hear.
Nobody is disputing, as far as I can tell, that Tesla's radiant energy receiver is a COP>1 device, many are arguing that is not an overunity device. The use of the term overunity in a COP (coefficient of performance) context is meaningless (as is COP infinity itself), which you have acknowledged indirectly by correcting it. Do not deflect from the issue by invoking "idle pub talk", which I find personally insulting by the way, as I am a builder as you well know. If you have been there and got the Tshirt then give something back and teach the kids with solid science and indisputable demonstrations. Do not confuse OU and COP, as OU has become a cult rivalling Scientology without the bank balance or the Top Gun, while maintaining similar levels of credibility. COP indirectly acknowledges the thermodynamic underpinning of a lot of what we do and so is valuable even if not understood correctly most of the time.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance

There is an Apples and Oranges thememe going on here and it is a topic we shall shortly cover.. are you ready AC ?


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Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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All,

I see there is some confusion regarding the schematic for Clarence's design.  Attached is a corrected schematic by Clarence and also a confirmed redraw by Void.  This is taken from page 72 on the OU forum.

partzman
Drawing 2 is misleading,as plug one and two will be parallel plugs in the inverter. I have drawn in the parallel conections below,so all those sepperate wires shown that are conected to the two sepperate plugs are actually one in the same.
   
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