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Author Topic: Energy from the Ground - Self powered generator by Barbosa and Leal - Clarence  (Read 84192 times)
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This might be how science should be carried out and I kinda know that your going to have to measure measure measure. Until you excrete it from your system. Or at least decide there's something here you do not comprehend ... that's ok I had to and I know I might be wrong, better men than me have been.
You'll have to excuse my lack of scientific rigour I am no scientist I am an engineer trained in three disciplines . Heavy power high voltage grids , electrical engineering ,HF/UHF Radio Transceiver repair. Meaning no disrespect all my training has been directed at making something work that has failed. The science of how I have made it work is usually fitted together as a mental exercise later.
It is the lot of we who have lived and breathed electricity all our lives that we each 'know it all' including me! I think its because deep down we are painfully aware we know very little of this mysterious stuff and cling tenaciously to the laws and basic principles we have been taught.
We defend like a tiger our volts and amps and power factor. What else after all do we have ? Yet when asked what is electricity .. ?
This area of resonance and particularly series resonance has been taught to me four times in four different engineering environments .  Power grids .. VLF radio antenna systems , PF correction at LV baud rates and data transmission. I am also a some time radio ham so I guess you can add UHF to that . In each of those disciplines the teaching, outcome, and results of series resonance are entirely different. The odd thing is as an engineer you simply compact the information into boxes related to the job in hand.  It takes a deal of focus to apply something taught forty years ago related  to a power grid, heterodyne it with Radio theory sprinkle that with a bit of  electrical engineering and then make it work … That’s far from the hardest bit ! This silly capacitor thing is in a nut shell the very simplest way I could think of to engage with you. It is only the tip of a totally different dimension. This however isn't voodoo Its there ,Its real, its engineer-able , its natural and its e'lectric but it is not electricity.
Let me give you an example so you might grasp , If I were to put you in my time machine and spin the wheel to say 1850 most of the maths and science you are familiar with is in place, you have your precious ohm in fact you could visit the old boy if you wanted to and your Germans any good..
You could measure amps,volts,and KW and be in very happy accord . Ecstatic that you both agree
with the answer that you expect to see . KW in KW out  stuff 'Great' so you do the same thing over and over … cause your a measurist and measuring makes you cum in your pants! ;D
Then along comes a mean old grump (like me) and sticks an antenna and ground on the end of your equipment and tunes it resonant … and says well Georg where's all your bloody Kws gone now ? The irascible German would be at a loss  and not very pleased that his life’s work and theories had just gone up in smoke. Well not smoke , the electromagnetic wave really!
Its easy for you to understand  now because you have been taught its true and its supposed to happen . Not so Georg. He'd  be astounded .
Well there's another wave , the electrostatic wave ! The crystals in your battery are receiving and demodulating it . The battery itself is an antenna ! 'Read that as'… for the electromagnetic wave use parallel resonance and for the electrostatic ground wave use series resonance.
Your now in Tesla wireless land and the longitudinal wave (you receiving it loud and clear) and  can see why it was snubbed out... free energy wasn't on the agenda
kind regards Duncan

PS I loaded this I found the simple view of the LA battery helped me http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b5/battery%20resonance.pdf


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How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   

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Yep I don't dispute the bulb power, it should be warm too. I'm a bit confused as to how it should be measured on the transformer output which could be considered as the input to the circuit is all. I know I've messed around with series caps in the HF setup as well and got some seemingly odd measurements at some times, that setup has a pure DC input so I knew the input power was very close to what the instruments measured with that.

I was wondering how come you got an almost square wave there in the second scope shot ?

Something might be interesting to try is I have this box I made to control the Tesla coil, if I select "On" and "Precharge" I can power the transformer with the 8.8 uF of caps in Series with the transformer primary.
   
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Ah shucks I just can't help myself for all my promise of scientific rigour, what do we make of this guy boys and girls ?  Flame on!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLvXaOJAH1Y


---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   
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Fractal antenna and quartz,well we know a fellow in Australia who has a device running on an Odd antenna for years and years .
However
Do we know that speaker ?? [missing some tattoo's maybe ??]

TinMan , Find some quartz to try out the rest of the experiment....




   
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Buy me some coffee
Yep I don't dispute the bulb power, it should be warm too. I'm a bit confused as to how it should be measured on the transformer output which could be considered as the input to the circuit is all. I know I've messed around with series caps in the HF setup as well and got some seemingly odd measurements at some times, that setup has a pure DC input so I knew the input power was very close to what the instruments measured with that.

I was wondering how come you got an almost square wave there in the second scope shot ?

Something might be interesting to try is I have this box I made to control the Tesla coil, if I select "On" and "Precharge" I can power the transformer with the 8.8 uF of caps in Series with the transformer primary.
The square wave is due to phase shift and the FWBR. It is more noticable with the 3 ohm 1 watt resisters.
   
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ah Hi Ramset yeah quartz is a factor Methinks ... I bless you guys for hitting it with all you have ! Ground one side of the battery if you can …the thicker the wire the better there's lots of amps to fit even if you can't feel or measure them (like  Clarence and many earth rods) if you have quartz to hand .. (that crushed stuff for pet reptiles) .. coil a copper wire in it and use it as an antenna on the other side of the battery.
You would be following  Clarence's Instinct also ! He obviously knew about Quartz so does Basher or nasher or whatever his name is ! Anyway good friends its a belting day here and I've decided its beer garden time , Pub O'clock so I'll leave you in peace to fettle and wrestle with the bits
kind regards Duncan



---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   
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Buy me some coffee
Well who wants the bad new's?

I just watch my battery that has been sitting stedy at around 7.4 volt's for the past 12 odd hours,die a horrible death. It went from 7.44 volt's down to 5 in like 5 minute's-and it's still dropping fast :'(. So it now seems that although the battery had very little capacity at it's rated voltage,it had a lot of capacity at 1/2 it's rated voltage-and then it let go with a fast drop.

Im going to leave it for another hour,and see how it look's,but i expect it will fall to a level that is equal to the watts in shown by the watt meter.
   

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Well I set up the 240 to dual 12 volt outputs step down transformer and put about a 1 Ohm resistor ( it's a 0.58 and a 0.33 in series, I'm waiting for the meter batteries to charge to get an accurate resistance value) and put a 14 uF capacitor after that, I made it so I can swap out the CSR and Cap and change the order of the components in line, this gives me input to the FWBR. However with 240 volt input when I run it open circuit the setup only draws 3.4 Watts with no load at PF 0.43. If I use the variac as well as the transformer the input at no load goes up to about double or so same PF but I can raise the output voltage to 28 volts or so.

I guess I can try a load resistor and battery after I have a peek at the wave forms.

Now I've set it up I may as well at least tickle a battery with it and have a look at some stuff.

Cheers

P.S. A healthy Lead acid battery hits a wall at about 10.7 volts or so I think, that takes some time to get through.
..
   
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Buy me some coffee
At this point in time,i feel as though the battery voltage will continue to drop until the load and input become equal.
this is why it pays to do tests over a long period of time,as the truth always prevails. O0
   
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Somehow I think there will be more to this story...

But I do hope the sun is shining when you wake up tomorrow... O0
would be nice to clear the head on the race course ....
and helicopter flight school :D   [I have a SCARRY story there myself ,MUCH bigger copter]
   

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OK so I used 240 volts input to the killaWatt meter then variac then still set 240 volts on the variac, then the 240 to 24 volt step down transformer I put the CSR on the output of the 24 volts AC then the 14 uF capacitor, I just swapped the cap and CSR position to Tinmans drawing. The rest is the same except I used no other load than the battery. The load was detected/reflected in the input meter reading.

Edit: there was about 0.15 amp at 13 volts to the battery, almost 2 watts.

The first shot is scoped the voltage across the transformer in yellow and the voltage across the CSR in blue. No inverted channel.

The second shot is with the voltage scoped across the cap and the current the same as the first. No inverted channel.

If you look closely the second shot shows an almost symmetrical Math trace. No net power. But the first shot shows all one side of the 0 volt line. Math trace is in purple and small.

..
   

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Well it appears that my posts have been blocked by some members here, that's too bad.

I really don't want to rain on anyone's parade but I have to speak up, this is an old and very common transformerless step down supply circuit. One I have designed with years ago, and a number of times, it can be found in many books.  It works great to reduce the power consumed by step down circuits with minimal parts count and expense. as an example I used it to run a LED off 120VAC mains power.

If you calculate it, a dropping resistor to give 20ma at 120V is 6000 ohms, 120V x .020A = 2.4 watts, big waste of power for an LED and a 3 watt resistor is needed for it. By using this circuit with a few small and cheap parts you can reduce the power dissipation down to about 1/4 watt, with no transformer involved.  I will gladly post the schematic if anyone is interested.

After the AC is rectified and turned into DC there is no longer any phase difference, DC does not have a phase (unless you are talking 2 separate DC pulses). so you are applying DC power to the battery, the most you will see on the battery is a small bump at 120 HZ barely rising above the battery level.  Common and ordinary battery charging from the FWBR.

Others have addressed the low increase in primary side power with the load.  All the power is coming from the input, when you put a load across a charging battery the load is powered by the input until it becomes greater then the energy charging the battery at which point the battery begins supplying power to the load.
And as for resonance it's DC I don't see any kind of resonance here.

I am sorry and like I said I don't mean to rain on anyone's parade I do appreciate all you have been doing, I think you guys are great and I don't mean any of this badly, but there is no overunity, extra energy or magic  here.

The first piece of your puzzle is not overunity or cop>1 or anything else, I sincerely hope the rest of the puzzle fares better.
« Last Edit: 2015-04-10, 18:30:03 by Room3327 »


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"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   
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Room
A comment on Blocking your posts here?
are you describing the same "lost post" scenario that others are complaining about here?
they go to post and its all gone ...?

just curious

Chet K 
   
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Hey Duncan

I was thinking about the experiments being performed here and I'm not sure I get it. You posted a simple circuit consisting of a grid connection, a series capacitor, a FWBR and a 12v battery. It was claimed that a resonance occurs between the battery and the other circuit elements in this configuration.

So why is everyone using a transformer, why is everyone placing a load across the battery which would obviously kill any and all supposed resonance immediately and why bother taking measurements when the experiments shown are designed to fail?. I mean I could do no better to effectively kill the claimed effects than what I have seen to date. It's like trying to bake a cake and changing all the ingredients... Flour I don't need no stinking flour I will just use corn starch. Eggs I don't need no stinking eggs I will just use lard instead. What happened to my cake because I followed the directions and it turned out all wrong, lol.

As I said I don't get it, I mean it simply boggles the mind :D

AC


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"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt.

There is infinitely more that we do not know, than we know.
   

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The battery is receiving pulsed DC. Yes there is no smoothing cap, you can see the DC lumps are clipped by the battery in the second shot, looks like to me.

No one is disputing the power to the light bulb. Tinman was managing to get no or very low power transfer to the battery from the transformer or he measured the voltage incorrectly and as can be seen by the scope shots the way I measured it shows a net input of power while the other shows close to no power transfer, one is wrong and one is likely correct.

..

P.S. If you take too long the time out will log you off and so you can click back on the browser and copy the post text to the clipboard then re sing in and paste the post back in and it will work. I think we can adjust the log out time out here. It happens to me both here and on other sites. I just copy the post to the clipboard automatically so if the post fails I can just paste it again and it's all good. And of course it only happens with big posts so it's really a pain when it happens.

..
   

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Room
A comment on Blocking your posts here?
are you describing the same "lost post" scenario that others are complaining about here?
they go to post and its all gone ...?

just curious

Chet K 

Hi Chet,

Thank you for asking, but no I am not having any trouble posting, I was talking about people that have me filtered out so they don't even see my post's.


---------------------------
"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   
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Room
I didn't know you could do that here....
I personally have never done that anywhere.

AC
TinMan switched to the Mains in the last few hours prior to it settling at around 5V and is still running it that way now..
however any and all suggestions are good at this point

Respectfully
Chet K
   

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Room
I didn't know you could do that here....
I personally have never done that anywhere.


I don't know either, I just assumed being my post with questions was ignored, I've never blocked anyone myself.


---------------------------
"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

"When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle."  Edmund Burke
   

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Buy me a cigar
I don't know either, I just assumed being my post with questions was ignored, I've never blocked anyone myself.

Dear Room3327.

You're not the only one !!   ;)

I would like to apologise for my lack input but as Chet knows I have had some serious domestic issues to deal with so have just been looking in occasionally, I'm glad the knives are back in the kitchen draw and look forward to some interesting results.

I managed to get out today and acquire a knackered motorcycle battery from my old employer with a view to trying Duncan's de sulphating exercise. I do have a 4 A Variac and a variety of non polarised cap's. Are we suggesting applying 240 V ac to a 12 V battery ??   :D
Or do we knock up a 240 V rated battery bank ?

Cheers Grum. 


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Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
   

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AC, There would be no real difference in the results with or without the transformer. And I was replicating what Tinman did. Duncan happened to think what tinman did was was good anyway.

All power seems pretty much accounted for in my experiment and everything looked normal to me. I had no load except the battery.

Can you suggest the correct size capacitor for the battery or something.

Even if resonance was at play the results would still be under unity for in to out.

You can show different if you like.

..

   

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No Grum, to use the line voltage you need the correct amount of batteries in series I think. I don't have that many batteries.  :(
.
   
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We have 120 here
fellows charge Banks of batteries [thru a big Diode ] here all the time.
 also we don't have any laws [as Farmhand mentioned] on forcing people to use GFI [his RCD??]
in the shops or outbuildings, as a matter of fact you can wire YOUR OWN home anyway you chose here.
just don't expect insurance to feel the same way if you file a claim [crazy lawsuit happy  lawyers keep things in check here]
or hurt someone [or yourself]

to be clear building codes apply when your getting paid to do a job or file for a permit,and in those cases
anyplace  around water needs GFI [Ground fault interrupter]
although I am quite certain GFI manufacturers are feverishly trying to mandate compliance as in other countries.

Chet K
   
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Hey Chet
Quote
TinMan switched to the Mains in the last few hours prior to it settling at around 5V and is still running it that way now..
however any and all suggestions are good at this point

I was going to set up last night but watched the news, had a few beers then went into rant mode, lol.

I think I may know exactly what is going on which may also explain why the claimed effect is such a hit and miss proposition. Same old thing...it's always got to be the hard way. In any case I'm going to setup tonight and take some scope shots then see if I can't auto-sync the circuit.

AC


---------------------------
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt.

There is infinitely more that we do not know, than we know.
   

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The battery is receiving pulsed DC. Yes there is no smoothing cap, you can see the DC lumps are clipped by the battery in the second shot, looks like to me.

No one is disputing the power to the light bulb. Tinman was managing to get no or very low power transfer to the battery from the transformer or he measured the voltage incorrectly and as can be seen by the scope shots the way I measured it shows a net input of power while the other shows close to no power transfer, one is wrong and one is likely correct.

..

P.S. If you take too long the time out will log you off and so you can click back on the browser and copy the post text to the clipboard then re sing in and paste the post back in and it will work. I think we can adjust the log out time out here. It happens to me both here and on other sites. I just copy the post to the clipboard automatically so if the post fails I can just paste it again and it's all good. And of course it only happens with big posts so it's really a pain when it happens.

..

Yes without a smoothing cap the battery will recieve pulsed DC, that is the whole point of a smoothing cap. I have in the past run flouresents off a 12v LA battery being charged by HV through a FWBR with no smoothing cap, frequency at the battery was around 3khz, surprised me at the time, I now know better. You can even use HV and HF using two plates on the outside of your battery for charging, that way your input does not see the output return to the source battery O0

AC

I go along with you totally, if you move the goal posts the results will not be the same, a replication is exactly a replication


regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Hey Farmhand
Quote
AC, There would be no real difference in the results with or without the transformer. And I was replicating what Tinman did. Duncan happened to think what tinman did was was good anyway.

All power seems pretty much accounted for in my experiment and everything looked normal to me. I had no load except the battery.

Can you suggest the correct size capacitor for the battery or something.

Even if resonance was at play the results would still be under unity for in to out.

You can show different if you like.

I believe this may relate to some experiments I was doing a while back. We know a standard AC induction motor is synced to the AC source and if the motor runs faster than grid frequency it becomes an induction generator... simple enough. However if we chop the AC grid signal into an intermittent DC signal to the motor then something truly bizarre may occur. The motor inductance may couple with the pole transformer inductance in series using the line capacitance. Thus the motor inductance may operate at a harmonic of the grid frequency ie LCL, which means it may also jump into generator mode at a drastically lower frequency. An AC induction generator tied to the grid running at ridiculously low RPM but generating full power.

You see it's always the little things we never expected which gets us, the things we never could have imagined because we have ignored everything exterior to our circuits we thought did not matter. Little things matter as does the big picture in my opinion.

AC


---------------------------
"Great minds discuss ideas; average minds discuss events; small minds discuss people." - Eleanor Roosevelt.

There is infinitely more that we do not know, than we know.
   
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