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 Author Topic: Some "New" Observations  (Read 99335 times)
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #375 on: 2016-01-04, 20:12:54 » Sr. Member Posts: 308 Quote from: wattsup on 2016-01-04, 13:05:14@PhysicsProfI think your question can be better asked this way.If you could make the sun disappear with the flick of a finger, so from one second it's there and the next second it's gone without leaving the slightest trace, what happens to the planets? Will they all veer off their orbits immediately and hence show that there is something much faster then light? I personally say yes the planets and everything else in the solar system would stray of their orbits and get lost in space.wattsupWell considering that the Planets and the Sun "orbit" the Galactic center I would say that the planets would continue to orbit the Galactic center just that they would not be influenced by the Sun and would find a new "path" as chaotic as it may be. ..
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #376 on: 2016-01-04, 20:23:09 » Jr. Member Posts: 76 Quote from: MarkSnoswell on 2016-01-01, 08:28:04Don't assume that a field that can move flowing charge is a magnetic field - and don't assume that moving charges are electrons.Novel charge carriers may produce electrostatic (capacitive) and magnetic (inductive) effects but they will not behave in any rational manner across a semiconductor junction... in fact you are likely to cause inexplicable failures in digital equipment even at a distance you think is safe- I know this from first hand experience.Novel charge carriers will produce novel fields in addition to classical fields when they move. Novel fields may extend into other dimensions -- study the mapping of dimensions.Our experience with valves is good -- deflecting charges around a vacuum is more reliable than using mosfets and you can still get low ns HV pulses if you want.Not sure why I am offering this ...holiday madness I suppose... and my account got trashed and all the history has been lost While I'm posting -- did anyone else ever work out the mathematical foundation for the ratios of frequencies SM quoted? ... and realize the implications? .. if you did then please contact me privately.Very interesting information's. The tubes are the best for this kind of experiments (where HV , inductors,and high frequency used), that's sure. What caught my eye, you asked about " the ratios of frequencies ", not the ratio between the circumference and the frequencies. I think the 35705hz input frequency is accelerated in the output coil part of the system, maybe in each 1/4 wave cycle to a higher frequency, which is phi times the first. --------------------------- "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away." Antoine de Saint-Exupery
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #378 on: 2016-01-04, 21:32:27 » Sr. Member Posts: 308 So the very central part of the Iron core of the Earth is the hottest but it is solid while the cooler outer part is molten ? How is it so ? The hotter inner part should be more molten than the cooler outer part. Unless the sheer "pressure" can cause Iron to be solid at higher temperatures at the inner core, while the outer core remains molten at lower temperatures. If that is the theory then I could see some logic in that even though I am not a physicist. Regardless of how complicated things may be, they still need to make some sense when looked at in a simplistic, holistic and logical way.
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #379 on: 2016-01-04, 21:41:53 » Hero Member Posts: 1639 Everyman decries immorality Quite so..Look at the top right corner of the diagram (supercritical fluid); we have a pseudo gas, a pseudo liquid or a pseudo solid.. all of which are plasma matter based and property dependent on pressure temperature boundary delta  http://www.livescience.com/6980-finally-solid-earth-core.htmlThe core was discovered in 1936 by monitoring the internal rumbles of earthquakes, which send seismic waves rippling through the planet. The waves, which are much like sound waves, are bent when they pass through layers of differing densities, just as light is bent as it enters water. By noting a wave's travel time, much can be inferred about the Earth's insides. Define the boundary plane(s), specifically. ------------------------ Some "New" Observations  Phase change diagram.png (27.47 kB, 530x443 - viewed 593 times.) --------------------------- Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #380 on: 2016-01-05, 02:18:20 » Hero Member Posts: 2091 Quote from: wattsup on 2016-01-04, 13:05:14@PhysicsProfI think your question can be better asked this way.If you could make the sun disappear with the flick of a finger, so from one second it's there and the next second it's gone without leaving the slightest trace, what happens to the planets? Will they all veer off their orbits immediately and hence show that there is something much faster then light? I personally say yes the planets and everything else in the solar system would stray of their orbits and get lost in space.wattsupThe key point is whether the planets would veer off their orbits IMMEDIATELY, or after a delay -- 8 minutes delay for the earth ( the time required for the fastest possible signal (assuming light-speed is maximum for anything) -- to reach the earth.I think the G-field from the sun would still be there at the earth the MOMENT the sun disappeared (a cleaver thought experiment - thanks) - but 8 minutes later, the absence of the G-field from the ABSENT sun would indeed be felt, and THEN the earth would veer off its elliptical orbit.  At that same 8-minute mark, the sun's light would appear on the earth to be GONE, at the same instant as the G-field from the sun disappeared.  (imo)
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #381 on: 2016-01-05, 02:22:08 » Hero Member Posts: 2091 Quote from: Smudge on 2016-01-04, 17:19:41In my professional career I had the use of a time domain spectrometer that had a resolution better than 50pS.  So I could measure effects over small distances (like a few cm).  Although designed for finding discontinuities in 50 ohm transmission lines, it could also be used for measuring magnetic and electric field propagation speeds.  I can verify that magnetic and electric near-fields do travel at the speed of light (that is the fields themselves, not necessarily the transport of power which travels slower in near-field coupling situations.  I guess modern TDR's have an even better resolution, my TDR was 1964 vintage!  So the sudden presence of electrons on the plate of a capacitor create an influence that travels at the speed of light (or less in a dielectric).  Does that answer the question concerning the sudden appearance of an electron?...SmudgeYes it does!  as expected, electric fields (or at least, near-fields) do travel at the speed of light.  Thanks!Now, I would very much like to learn more about the "time domain spectrometer that had a resolution better than 50pS" -- and  HOW it could be "  used for measuring magnetic and electric field propagation speeds."  Is there anything written up on this?  I'd love to learn more...Thanks again.
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #383 on: 2016-02-16, 18:27:54 » Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 2892 It's turtles all the way down Looks like Steven D. Mark now works for NASA, unless it is a different person, but the references to the Journal of Acoustical Society is correct, and association with David Doleshal.Maybe they are different persons that the stupid Microsoft database thought was the same person.http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Author/55153239/steven-d-mark --------------------------- Just because it has a patent application or is patented does not always mean it really works.
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #384 on: 2016-02-19, 00:50:06 » Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 1852 Quote from: ION on 2016-02-16, 18:27:54Looks like Steven D. Mark now works for NASA, unless it is a different person, but the references to the Journal of Acoustical Society is correct, and association with David Doleshal.Maybe they are different persons that the stupid Microsoft database thought was the same person.http://academic.research.microsoft.com/Author/55153239/steven-d-markDon't trust the DB associations being automatically made by that system. According to the same system, of my publications in the journals "Metaphilosophy" and "Philosophy of Science" I have been cited only once. I assure you that I've been cited more than once.BTW... What is Metaphilosophy?   Never mind. If it is on the web and generated by a M$product it must be true. --------------------------- "As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg  Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #385 on: 2016-02-19, 01:04:46 » Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 2892 It's turtles all the way down Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2016-02-19, 00:50:06Don't trust the DB associations being automatically made by that system. According to the same system, of my publications in the journals "Metaphilosophy" and "Philosophy of Science" I have been cited only once. I assure you that I've been cited more than once.BTW... What is Metaphilosophy? Never mind. If it is on the web and generated by a M$ product it must be true.I agree it is a different person.I do have a paperweight ton of back issues of the Journal of the Acoustical Society of America in my garage, will have to dig out SM's contribution to that journal and see if it is different than the patents......just for fun. --------------------------- Just because it has a patent application or is patented does not always mean it really works.
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #386 on: 2017-03-18, 20:43:28 » Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 2892 It's turtles all the way down There is a patent posted by user PIX at OU.com that seems to be a very good fit for the TPU.http://overunity.com/17172/a-simple-question-about-tpu-replication-attempts/msg502032/#msg502032When I first skimmed the patent, I thought well, close, but no cigar, SM did not use gas tubes. On a more thorough read, I can see that this is a very good find and good fit for the TPU as it shows that the travelling wave can effect (drag) the electrons in a solid metallic conductor or semiconductor (the collector) so a gas tube is not necessarily needed.It can even drag electrons in free air see figure 7There are many other statements in the patent that make it a very good TPU fit if it works as claimed.Thanks to user "PIX"Patent also attached here. Give it a good read.Comments appreciatedRegardsION ------------------------  US3085189.pdf (417.61 kB - downloaded 52 times.) --------------------------- Just because it has a patent application or is patented does not always mean it really works.
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #387 on: 2017-03-19, 09:55:36 » Hero Member Posts: 739 Quote from: ION on 2017-03-18, 20:43:28There is a patent posted by user PIX at OU.com that seems to be a very good fit for the TPU.http://overunity.com/17172/a-simple-question-about-tpu-replication-attempts/msg502032/#msg502032Interesting.  I think you are right to say that gas tubes are not necessary, ferromagnetic conductors can have their conduction electrons pumped in this way to create DC.  I think the Russian Sergy Alexeew device does exactly that.  He covers his toroidal coil with Al foil to get the distributed capacitance and that is mentioned in the patent.  Here is my paper on that device.  Also another one that does a similar thing.Smudge  ------------------------  Considerations on Sergy Alexeew.pdf (707.29 kB - downloaded 31 times.)  Creating Electron Current in Ferromagnetic Wires by Moving….pdf (382.49 kB - downloaded 33 times.)
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #388 on: 2017-03-19, 11:33:15 » Hero Member Posts: 1504 Quote from: ION on 2017-03-18, 20:43:28There is a patent posted by user PIX at OU.com that seems to be a very good fit for the TPU.http://overunity.com/17172/a-simple-question-about-tpu-replication-attempts/msg502032/#msg502032When I first skimmed the patent, I thought well, close, but no cigar, SM did not use gas tubes. On a more thorough read, I can see that this is a very good find and good fit for the TPU as it shows that the travelling wave can effect (drag) the electrons in a solid metallic conductor or semiconductor (the collector) so a gas tube is not necessarily needed.It can even drag electrons in free air see figure 7There are many other statements in the patent that make it a very good TPU fit if it works as claimed.Thanks to user "PIX"Patent also attached here. Give it a good read.Comments appreciatedRegardsIONThat reminds me of the Meyer system where the gas is hydrogen and oxygen, HHO. I have seen this first hand  along with all the rest, more than one if I recall, did have some pictures that I took.RegardsMike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #389 on: 2017-03-19, 19:17:43 » Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 2892 It's turtles all the way down Attached is an additional related patent that was referenced in the citations.It is a good read full of interesting ideas and applications. ------------------------  pat2096460.pdf (355.06 kB - downloaded 49 times.) --------------------------- Just because it has a patent application or is patented does not always mean it really works.
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #390 on: 2017-03-20, 21:34:22 » Full Member Posts: 240 What if explanation is simpler the we think ? What if the rotation of Earth is caused by external electric current flowing into the Earth core and melting iron core ? Basically what if Earth is just a metallic ball and electro-magnet with iron core = Faraday dynamo ?
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #391 on: 2017-03-21, 01:57:03 » Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 2892 It's turtles all the way down Quote from: forest on 2017-03-20, 21:34:22What if explanation is simpler the we think ? What if the rotation of Earth is caused by external electric current flowing into the Earth core and melting iron core ? Basically what if Earth is just a metallic ball and electro-magnet with iron core = Faraday dynamo ?Forest.I have no idea, but have always wondered about the consistent spin of the earth over the last two hundred years losing only a few milliseconds.See here: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=1097.0Could you somehow tie this idea into how it applies to building a working TPU. How could a person standing on the surface of  the dynamo you have proposed utilize it to produce electrical current in a portable device?How would you test the idea as proof of principle? --------------------------- Just because it has a patent application or is patented does not always mean it really works.
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #392 on: 2017-03-23, 13:48:30 » Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 2892 It's turtles all the way down For those who missed it the patent of interest is on post #386, US3085189Here is a spreadsheet of some coil data extracted from the Thonemann et al patent.Also some screenshots of the actual coil calculator used.Let me know if there are any errors.It should be easy to build and test this device to see if it stands up to some of the claims in the patent. Lets keep this discussion of the patent on topic until Peterae can move it all to a new thread.Thanks also to Smudge for his supportive documents.Here are some of my thoughts reposted from OU.comQuoteTo be clear the patent presented by PIX  US3085189 Thonemann et al is very much in line with TPU research. It presents an explanation to some of the factors that  have been elusive regarding the SM TPU.The biggest find within the patent in my opinion is the direct conversion of RF Current (alternating current)  into a Direct Current by propelling electrons in one direction in a elemental noble gas or mixture of gases or an electron "gas" in the metal lattice of a conductor or a semiconductor. (the collector)And this is the very first claim of the patent!. How this is done without discrete semiconductor rectifiers eluded me and others for a very long time. If the patent is real and works as claimed, it is to me at least, a huge revelation.It is my belief that any serious researcher of TPU devices of SM must address this first major issue.The other issues fall into place once this is properly addressed. The very slight gyroscopic effect, the slight stiction when pushed can possibly be explained when copious numbers of electrons are accelerated to wave velocity in a circular shaped device.Also looking at the graphs, there is a current multiplication of at least one order of magnitude.Two methods are presented for producing the traveling wave and resultant DC current derived from RF input current, one utilizing a transmission line and the other a polyphase drive system.So, to be sure, the patent US3085189 generously provided by PIX is very relevant to the topic of the thread.I recommend that the capacitors be matched as closely as possible and that care is exercised in the coil construction. ------------------------ Some "New" Observations  Thonemann Coil Data.jpg (34.54 kB, 1173x145 - viewed 139 times.) Some "New" Observations  Fig 1 Inductance.jpg (268.59 kB, 654x652 - viewed 24 times.) Some "New" Observations  Fig 5 Inductance.jpg (275.06 kB, 695x653 - viewed 23 times.) Some "New" Observations  Calculator Form.jpg (22.45 kB, 608x412 - viewed 25 times.) --------------------------- Just because it has a patent application or is patented does not always mean it really works.
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #393 on: 2017-03-23, 14:24:44 » Hero Member Posts: 1405 Dear ION.Chet spoke to me via Skype yesterday evening about this patent.I assume a Fluorescent tube could be used in one of the configurations? Being a fish keeper we have a UV steriliser in operation, I wondered if one of those might be better than the phosphor coated lighting tubes?Just thinking out loud...... Cheers Graham. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #394 on: 2017-03-23, 15:48:16 » Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 2892 It's turtles all the way down Quote from: Grumage on 2017-03-23, 14:24:44Dear ION.Chet spoke to me via Skype yesterday evening about this patent.I assume a Fluorescent tube could be used in one of the configurations? Being a fish keeper we have a UV steriliser in operation, I wondered if one of those might be better than the phosphor coated lighting tubes?Just thinking out loud...... Cheers Graham.Dear GrahamYes, that would be fine as it is probably a mercury vapor lamp. I also have one of those clear tubes. Use care to shield your eyes from the UV rays.  Only thing I'm not sure about is the gas pressure in those tubes.  According to the patent, the frequency is not critical, but gas pressure has a big effect on DC current output (Fig3).I would advise anyone interested in this build to do the coil winding on a good stiff former such that other devices can also be slid into the tube, such as copper or iron wire "collector" or partially conductive materials, or just totally open and accelerating free electrons in the air as in Fig7 Note also that the effect is supposedly reversible i.e. running a strong DC current from a wire passed through the coil interior will excite the transmission line to a higher amplitude of oscillation. (Sec 1, Par 40-45)When winding, bring out a small twist every 12 turns as a terminal to attach the capacitors used for loading the line.I'm still looking into wire gauge but used 0.4mm (26 AWG) for the calculations. It may be possible to fit heavier wire.Interestingly, in researching traveling wave tubes, I found the term "collector" refers to the electron beam target in such tubes.RegardsIONP.S. Caveat Emptor: Regarding this patent, until proven otherwise my signature at the bottom of the post still applies. We shall see. « Last Edit: 2017-03-23, 16:35:32 by ION » --------------------------- Just because it has a patent application or is patented does not always mean it really works.
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #395 on: 2017-03-23, 20:39:38 » Hero Member Posts: 1065 Hi ION,i was looking at the patent and understand from your and Grahams comments that your are primarily looking at the Fig. 5 configuration,  Right?It says:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------‘FIG. 5 shows a sealed glass tube 9,5 cm. diameter and 60 cm. long, containing mercury vapour at about 10-3 mm. Hg pressure and provided at each end withheavy section sealed-in electrodes one of which is an electron emitting cathode.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------This 9,5 cm diameter is rather thick is it not as normal Fluorescent lamps are thinner (the , in this 9,5 means the European indication for a decimal point i think).Also the pressure (10-3 mm Hg = 0.001mm Hg) ) seems higher as in a normal Fluorescent lamp as according to the below wiki they are at 0.8 Pa  (which is 0.006mm Hgaccording to the webside below the wiki). ==========================================================================================================http://Https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fluorescent_lampA Fluorescent lamp tube is filled with a gas containing low pressure mercury vapor and argon, xenon, neon, or krypton. The pressure inside the lamp is around 0.3% of atmospheric pressure.[23][23] Kulshreshtha, Alok K. (2009). Basic Electrical Engineering: Principles and Applications. India: Tata McGraw-Hill Education. p. 801. ISBN 0-07-014100-2. The partial pressure of the mercury vapor alone is about 0.8 Pa (8 millionths of atmospheric pressure), in a T12 40-watt lamp. See Kane and Sell, 2001, page 185================================================================================================http://Http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pressure-units-converter-d_569.html10-3mm Hg = 0.13Pa0.8Pa = 0.006mm Hg=================================================================================================Anyway, if the pressure and diameter are no real show stoppers, i am interested to give it a try.I understand your advice is to use a (transparent?) stiff former so we can change the Fluorescent lamps for anything else (copper or iron wire "collector" or partially conductive materials).Transparent because we would like to see the lamp light up, right?Regards Itsu « Last Edit: 2017-03-23, 21:22:15 by Itsu »
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #396 on: 2017-03-23, 21:05:55 » Hero Member Posts: 1405 Hi Itsu.Indeed, 95 mm is nearly 4" in diameter!  The older fluorescent tubes were 25 mm 1" in diameter.Would the higher negative pressure in the patent specification slow the progress of the electrons ?  More musing.   Cheers Graham. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #397 on: 2017-03-24, 00:09:36 » Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 2892 It's turtles all the way down Guys, the bold 9 is the reference designator pointing to the tube.The tube is 5 cm or 50 mm diameter as shown in my spreadsheet for the coil data.See the attached drawing fig 5, upper left with the reference designator 9 pointing to the tube.All bold numbers in U.S. patents are designators to components of a drawing.------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------In section 1 paragraph 45 it is stated that a fixed conductor can be used (in place of the tube) and a current that flows unidirectionally (a DC current) in the fixed conductor will generate a frequency in the transmission line.So, the device is reversible in it's operation, it can produce DC current in a conductor from an oscillator input to the transmission line or it can produce a high frequency in the transmission line from a DC current that is flowing in the tube or in a conductor where the tube could have been located.Thus we do not need to have a gas tube to test the viability of the patent.The device, if it works as advertised represents a fundamentally novel method of AC (RF) to DC conversion and vice versa. (section 1 paragraph 55 to 60). Grum and Itsu, you have both been down quite a number of dead ends and I don't want to cheer lead another possible dead end. I just personally find this patent extremely interesting as it stands on its own and incidentally in it's possible ties to the TPU. I do intend to test it myself very soon. Please do not feel obligated to build this. Hope this helps.--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Itsu said:QuoteI understand your advice is to use a (transparent?) stiff former so we can change the Fluorescent lamps for anything else (copper or iron wire "collector" or partially conductive materials).Transparent because we would like to see the lamp light up, right?Dear ItsuI don't recall saying that it should be transparent, but do recall saying be careful if you use a tube and it is visible as the UV light is harmful. I said I have a clear germicidal mercury vapor tube like Grahams. Perhaps that was the source of the confusion. Also, I don't think the pressure and diameter, if a tube is used, is that big a deal, as we are just looking for proof of a concept.---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Attached is updated chart with mm and inches ------------------------ Some "New" Observations  Fig 5.jpg (39.93 kB, 766x349 - viewed 40 times.) Some "New" Observations  Thonemann Coil Data.jpg (40.79 kB, 1203x158 - viewed 38 times.) « Last Edit: 2017-03-24, 02:17:59 by ION » --------------------------- Just because it has a patent application or is patented does not always mean it really works.
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #398 on: 2017-03-24, 10:02:09 » Hero Member Posts: 595 Hello!Do we have any idea about the power level and frequency range required of the oscillator in these patents? I skimmed the patents but that patent-lingo makes my eyeballs cross and sweat comes out of my forehead, so usually I just skip to the Claims and drawings/explanations. ------------------------ Some "New" Observations  Mercury arc rectifier.jpg (66.43 kB, 250x286 - viewed 28 times.) --------------------------- "The easiest person to fool is yourself" -- Richard Feynman
 Re: Some "New" Observations « Reply #399 on: 2017-03-24, 10:07:59 » Hero Member Posts: 1065 ION,thanks for the explaination, i did found it strange they used the comma.But i have a general problem with reading patents, not only because of the language (English here), but also the style.I was mentioning the transparent former as that would be the only way to see any light coming from the lamp.Anyway, perhaps if you have a crude setup you can show it so that i better can visualize it.Regards Itsu
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