PopularFX
Home Help Search Login Register
Welcome,Guest. Please login or register.
2018-12-10, 01:56:54
News: Registration with the OUR forum is now by invitation only.

Pages: 1 [2] 3
Author Topic: Building a Hybrid Toroid Transformer  (Read 21907 times)
Sr. Member
****

Posts: 253
I have a feeling this one will not work well with the low perm core, but i will continue on just so we can see what direction is best.

My gut feeling ATM is that both inner and outer cores should be of high permability . It would be nice if we could have a ferrite inner core wound, and then cast a high perm ferrite core around that as our outer core as well. Can i buy ferrite powder from some where ?.

Im off to do some research to see how they make ferrite toroid cores. O0

Hi Brad,

I agree, you could use a normal off the shelf toroidal ferrite core as the inner core, with your choice of the size and material grade and wind a coil onto it with a certain number of turns, maybe making one or two taps too.  

Then comes the question of obtaining ferrite powder:  I have not found such seller.  
Iron powder filing is available on ebay and elsewhere but then as you know you need to use binding material (epoxy) which also electrically insulates the iron particles from each other. And such method normally results in low permeability and unpredictable frequency response properties.

What I would suggest is to collect ferrite deflection yokes from old television or computer monitors (they are mounted on the neck of the picture tubes) and then smash them first with a hammer in a strong bag, then grind them to as small as say 1mm or less powder. This way no need for any epoxy and then you could fill a plastic case, see such encapsulation cups here as an example: http://www.plasmetex.com/round_encapsulation_cups_centerpost.html  
Of course, such encapsulation should have an inner volume size in which the toroidal ferrite core with its coil can fit in nicely.

To make differently sized plastic encapsulations, perhaps a 3D printer could be used if there is such in your local friends circle.
Alternatively, the outside and inner rings could be cut from thin walled PVC pipes and the two covering sides from a plastic sheet.

The deflection yokes are normally good for up to several tens of kHz for sure and after the smashing and grinding the original permeability of a few thousand will decrease of course because you cannot press the grinding to the original density.

Unfortunately such yokes are not manufactured any more and their ebay prices with the postage go up to AU$ 50-60 or higher:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Phillips-LG-Deflection-Yoke-for-tube-tv-from-TV-repair-shop-NOS-331320301242-/311481396345?hash=item4885bcec79:g:mgkAAOSw~gRVumUI

An alternative ferrite core for grinding would be to choose ferrite pot cores or other off the shelf core types with known specifications. For instance
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RM5-Philips-POT-Ferrite-Core-3E1-N41-AL-3150-RM5-3E1-X-20sets-/370819150804?hash=item56568b33d4:g:7uIAAOxyY3ZRmnSR  
or
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pot-Core-Power-Ferrite-M2000-OB30-Lot-of-4pcs-2set-/261548963908?hash=item3ce5887844:g:pPoAAOSwDk5T2nun

Of course this is a suggestion but I think with this method the resulting permeability of the home made outer ring core would remain at least in the several hundred range and frequency response would not suffer significantly either. And the permeability of the inner ring core (which would be an off the shelf type) will add to that of the outer core (this comes from the embedding of course) and the 'overall' permeability of the inner core would also increase from the outside core (inductance of the inner coil would be higher after the embedding).

Addition:  smashing and grinding a ferrite core sounds barbaric but I think it can lead to a cheap solution.   ;)
Gyula
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2523


Buy me some coffee
Hi Brad,

I agree, you could use a normal off the shelf toroidal ferrite core as the inner core, with your choice of the size and material grade and wind a coil onto it with a certain number of turns, maybe making one or two taps too.  

Then comes the question of obtaining ferrite powder:  I have not found such seller.  
Iron powder filing is available on ebay and elsewhere but then as you know you need to use binding material (epoxy) which also electrically insulates the iron particles from each other. And such method normally results in low permeability and unpredictable frequency response properties.

What I would suggest is to collect ferrite deflection yokes from old television or computer monitors (they are mounted on the neck of the picture tubes) and then smash them first with a hammer in a strong bag, then grind them to as small as say 1mm or less powder. This way no need for any epoxy and then you could fill a plastic case, see such encapsulation cups here as an example: http://www.plasmetex.com/round_encapsulation_cups_centerpost.html  
Of course, such encapsulation should have an inner volume size in which the toroidal ferrite core with its coil can fit in nicely.

To make differently sized plastic encapsulations, perhaps a 3D printer could be used if there is such in your local friends circle.
Alternatively, the outside and inner rings could be cut from thin walled PVC pipes and the two covering sides from a plastic sheet.

The deflection yokes are normally good for up to several tens of kHz for sure and after the smashing and grinding the original permeability of a few thousand will decrease of course because you cannot press the grinding to the original density.

Unfortunately such yokes are not manufactured any more and their ebay prices with the postage go up to AU$ 50-60 or higher:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Phillips-LG-Deflection-Yoke-for-tube-tv-from-TV-repair-shop-NOS-331320301242-/311481396345?hash=item4885bcec79:g:mgkAAOSw~gRVumUI

An alternative ferrite core for grinding would be to choose ferrite pot cores or other off the shelf core types with known specifications. For instance
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/RM5-Philips-POT-Ferrite-Core-3E1-N41-AL-3150-RM5-3E1-X-20sets-/370819150804?hash=item56568b33d4:g:7uIAAOxyY3ZRmnSR  
or
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Pot-Core-Power-Ferrite-M2000-OB30-Lot-of-4pcs-2set-/261548963908?hash=item3ce5887844:g:pPoAAOSwDk5T2nun

Of course this is a suggestion but I think with this method the resulting permeability of the home made outer ring core would remain at least in the several hundred range and frequency response would not suffer significantly either. And the permeability of the inner ring core (which would be an off the shelf type) will add to that of the outer core (this comes from the embedding of course) and the 'overall' permeability of the inner core would also increase from the outside core (inductance of the inner coil would be higher after the embedding).

Addition:  smashing and grinding a ferrite core sounds barbaric but I think it can lead to a cheap solution.   ;)
Gyula

Hi Gyula.

I should have the third done by tomorrow,and we can see what difference the low perm inner core will have.

I'll keep at it until we have the best result's O0


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
Group: Guest
I should have the third done by tomorrow,and we can see what difference the low perm inner core will have.

Curious Brad, what are your expectations with this core?


I started really thinking about what might be happening with this device and came up with a concept I'm calling:  Asymmetric Coherency

You probably all know what a one-way mirror is in regards to light.  Now think about one-way frosted glass, then apply that thought to a magnetic field.

The concept, the way I envision it, allows a magnetic field to transfer from the outer winding (primary) to the inner core coherently, causing a voltage to be produced on the secondary.  However, the reverse magnetic field from the back EMF of the load (the secondary) doesn't transfer coherently to the outer core or primary; instead it stays locked in the inner core or disperses chaotically to the outside.

The two main reasons this happens is due to the different permeability of the two cores and the geometry.  In effect, the outer core acts somewhat like a shield where it partially allows the magnetic field to penetrate inwards, but does not allow an inside magnetic field to penetrate outwards.  I should say it allows the magnetic field to come out, but in the process of doing so, the magnetic field is disrupted, distorted and no longer coherent, i.e. like frosted glass does to light.  Keep in mind how magnetic shielding actually works--it doesn't stop the magnetic field, it simply redirects it and in the case of the HTT we want it to redirect this magnetic field in a way where the primary windings never really become induced by it.

If I'm right about this concept or it is at least usable as a template, we should be able to alter core material, windings, frequencies and geometry to some optimal condition where power transfer from primary to secondary is maximized, while the back EMF of the load is nearly eliminated from reaching the source.  In essence the back EMF seen at the source is simply noise with an average voltage of near zero.


The above concept also has me thinking what current or amperage actually is.  It's almost like current is the collision of forward EMF and reverse EMF.  Granted, this thought is rather primitive and doesn't take into account phase shift, but it does help to partially understand the flow of electrical energy.  It becomes clear with a source voltage, an HTT in the middle and a load on the end, we have a normal relationship between the HTT and the load, but between the source and the HTT, something is a bit different.  It's that something we need to focus on.  It's the place where COP > 1 might hide.

Oh and don't even ask where the excess energy may come from.  First we need to obtain it, repeatedly, then we can do some brainstorming.
« Last Edit: 2015-11-14, 18:00:52 by Matt Watts »
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2523


Buy me some coffee
Curious Brad, what are your expectations with this core?


I started really thinking about what might be happening with this device and came up with a concept I'm calling:  Asymmetric Coherency

You probably all know what a one-way mirror is in regards to light.  Now think about one-way frosted glass, then apply that thought to a magnetic field.

The concept, the way I envision it, allows a magnetic field to transfer from the outer winding (primary) to the inner core coherently, causing a voltage to be produced on the secondary.  However, the reverse magnetic field from the back EMF of the load (the secondary) doesn't transfer coherently to the outer core or primary; instead it stays locked in the inner core or disperses chaotically to the outside.

The two main reasons this happens is due to the different permeability of the two cores and the geometry.  In effect, the outer core acts somewhat like a shield where it partially allows the magnetic field to penetrate inwards, but does not allow an inside magnetic field to penetrate outwards.  I should say it allows the magnetic field to come out, but in the process of doing so, the magnetic field is disrupted, distorted and no longer coherent, i.e. like frosted glass does to light.  Keep in mind how magnetic shielding actually works--it doesn't stop the magnetic field, it simply redirects it and in the case of the HTT we want it to redirect this magnetic field in a way where the primary windings never really become induced by it.

If I'm right about this concept or it is at least usable as a template, we should be able to alter core material, windings, frequencies and geometry to some optimal condition where power transfer from primary to secondary is maximized, while the back EMF of the load is nearly eliminated from reaching the source.  In essence the back EMF seen at the source is simply noise with an average voltage of near zero.


The above concept also has me thinking what current or amperage actually is.  It's almost like current is the collision of forward EMF and reverse EMF.  Granted, this thought is rather primitive and doesn't take into account phase shift, but it does help to partially understand the flow of electrical energy.  It becomes clear with a source voltage, an HTT in the middle and a load on the end, we have a normal relationship between the HTT and the load, but between the source and the HTT, something is a bit different.  It's that something we need to focus on.  It's the place where COP > 1 might hide.

Oh and don't even ask where the excess energy may come from.  First we need to obtain it, repeatedly, then we can do some brainstorming.

Well The third build is absolute rubbish. The inner secondary is lucky to output half the power being sent to the primary. Also,no matter what the frequency,i cannot get that negative resistance effect-not even close.
This tells me that the inner core must be of a high permeability. I also believe that the higher the permeability of the outer core,the better the results will be-but i have a limit as to how high i can get the permeability of the outer core. The inner core is no problem,as it would seem that !off the shelf! ferrite cores are best for this design.

I have ordered a large ferrite core from Ebay,and will be trying again when that arrives. This will give me some time to experiment with different compounds for the outer core.


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
Sr. Member
****

Posts: 330
The concept, the way I envision it, allows a magnetic field to transfer from the outer winding (primary) to the inner core coherently, causing a voltage to be produced on the secondary.  However, the reverse magnetic field from the back EMF of the load (the secondary) doesn't transfer coherently to the outer core or primary; instead it stays locked in the inner core or disperses chaotically to the outside.
You might take a look on http://pesn.com/2011/03/20/9501793_Two_Toroid_Over-Unity_Gabriel_Device_--_Part_1/ for this concept.

Cheers!
   
Group: Guest
You might take a look on http://pesn.com/2011/03/20/9501793_Two_Toroid_Over-Unity_Gabriel_Device_--_Part_1/ for this concept.

Thanks for finding that link T.  I knew I had seen it before but could not recall a reference to it.
   
Group: Guest
Well The third build is absolute rubbish. The inner secondary is lucky to output half the power being sent to the primary. Also,no matter what the frequency,i cannot get that negative resistance effect-not even close.
This tells me that the inner core must be of a high permeability. I also believe that the higher the permeability of the outer core,the better the results will be-but i have a limit as to how high i can get the permeability of the outer core. The inner core is no problem,as it would seem that !off the shelf! ferrite cores are best for this design.

I have ordered a large ferrite core from Ebay,and will be trying again when that arrives. This will give me some time to experiment with different compounds for the outer core.

Kind of what I expected.

I just ordered two nanocrystalline cores:
http://www.cwsbytemark.com/images/CN65-50-25Gfi.pdf


I also have some machinable wax on the way so casting hollow cores should no longer be a problem.

Now if I could only get up the ambition to make a pulse motor from an old microwave oven while I wait...    :D
   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 530



Well The third build is absolute rubbish. The inner secondary is lucky to output half the power being sent to the primary. Also,no matter what the frequency,i cannot get that negative resistance effect-not even close.
This tells me that the inner core must be of a high permeability. I also believe that the higher the permeability of the outer core,the better the results will be-but i have a limit as to how high i can get the permeability of the outer core. The inner core is no problem,as it would seem that !off the shelf! ferrite cores are best for this design.

I have ordered a large ferrite core from Ebay,and will be trying again when that arrives. This will give me some time to experiment with different compounds for the outer core.

No again. This should simply confirm that winding the secondary all around the core is not efficient. The amount of outer coil impress would have to be so perfect to "push" output out of that inner coil will be too great with outer and inner core forces working for or against each other while the inner secondary is trying to output whatever it can.

For the impress to be activated by the outer primary, then amplified by the outer core that then exerts to the inner secondary before it can influence the inner core. Chances of that happening successfully on a first few trials basis is slimmer then winning the lotto let alone finding a new core material to favor the process. So many variables at play here. Traps will abound and only increase in the cancellation potential which you have already maximized by winding the secondary all around. Do the cores require rebiasing? So how can the outer primary and core rebias the inner core? If the inner coil is the output coil, what happens when the inner core is saturated and cannot reset (rebias)?

So what tests did you do with the inner core alone to find out how permeable that core is? It's very easy. You wind a 3 turn coil on the inner core and pulse it while you scope a second 3 turn coil on the same core that can slide closer or further away from the pulsed coil. This will tell you how far the pulsed coil can impress via the core to the second coil. If the second coil cannot pick up anything while it is on the opposite side of the inner core, this will confirm that a secondary wound all around is not good and that the impress to pickup has to be shorter runs, many few turn secondaries in parallel to exit the output before it gets cancelled.

So with your last build all I would want to know more then I know now is as follows.

Just short the secondary or put a pot on it. Put your CH1 scope on the primary since it will be the output and put the CH2 on the secondary. Take any separate coil and put it to your pulse generator and place that coil under your RT. Play with the FG that pulses that third coil and find the best frequency that will promote maximum waveforms in one or both RT coils. The idea here is to use the inner secondary as the primary and the outer primary as the secondary where the two cores become active via the inner coil and add together as active total mass that the outer primary can output. You may need to split the outer primary into halves or quads and see which ones output the most because for sure, even if a third coil can impress enough to the RT inner coil, since that coil is wound all around it will still always have dead spots.

The other option is as follows.

Put the FG onto the inner coil where you also take a separate coil that has a core and many winds on it and add this in series with the inner secondary on the negative side of the pulse. Play with the FG and see how the output is in the outer primary. Again you may need to split the outer primary into halves or quads. Then try the same but now on the outer primary and output the secondary.

Small tests man.

Also, yesterday my wife picked up a can of this stuff at Canadian Tire. It was 10 bucks instead of 40.
http://www.rustoleum.com/en/product-catalog/consumer-brands/specialty/magnetic

@TinMan I know this is your show, your build, "your design" but man, do you want some help or not. Just say the word and I will no longer bug you. I will be putting up a new Half Coil Syndrome 2 youtube hopefully tomorrow, the contents of which should help clarify some of our most standard mistakes with pulsed coils. Every OUer needs to get this sunk into their heads. The game was never played by natures rules but forced by mans rules. hehehe

Listen man, learning is a two way street. One small side test on your part can save days of crap for many others and vise versa. We all spend time that hopefully saves time for others. The hours of trials I do on my bench to find the effects that help me make my videos is to open eyes and save years of hassles for others. If one shown effect can do that to only one guy that opens his eyes to an even newer effect, then the work gets compounded and that's how we all progress in this venue of illusion filled traps and misconceptions.

wattsup

PS: I have to say that your latest stint with @Erfinder was not cool. It does not cost anything to show some respect and the dividends in the long run could be worth it with just one new idea. You never know in advance from where that spark will come.


---------------------------
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2523


Buy me some coffee


No again. This should simply confirm that winding the secondary all around the core is not efficient. The amount of outer coil impress would have to be so perfect to "push" output out of that inner coil will be too great with outer and inner core forces working for or against each other while the inner secondary is trying to output whatever it can.

For the impress to be activated by the outer primary, then amplified by the outer core that then exerts to the inner secondary before it can influence the inner core. Chances of that happening successfully on a first few trials basis is slimmer then winning the lotto let alone finding a new core material to favor the process. So many variables at play here. Traps will abound and only increase in the cancellation potential which you have already maximized by winding the secondary all around. Do the cores require rebiasing? So how can the outer primary and core rebias the inner core? If the inner coil is the output coil, what happens when the inner core is saturated and cannot reset (rebias)?

So what tests did you do with the inner core alone to find out how permeable that core is? It's very easy. You wind a 3 turn coil on the inner core and pulse it while you scope a second 3 turn coil on the same core that can slide closer or further away from the pulsed coil. This will tell you how far the pulsed coil can impress via the core to the second coil. If the second coil cannot pick up anything while it is on the opposite side of the inner core, this will confirm that a secondary wound all around is not good and that the impress to pickup has to be shorter runs, many few turn secondaries in parallel to exit the output before it gets cancelled.

So with your last build all I would want to know more then I know now is as follows.

Just short the secondary or put a pot on it. Put your CH1 scope on the primary since it will be the output and put the CH2 on the secondary. Take any separate coil and put it to your pulse generator and place that coil under your RT. Play with the FG that pulses that third coil and find the best frequency that will promote maximum waveforms in one or both RT coils. The idea here is to use the inner secondary as the primary and the outer primary as the secondary where the two cores become active via the inner coil and add together as active total mass that the outer primary can output. You may need to split the outer primary into halves or quads and see which ones output the most because for sure, even if a third coil can impress enough to the RT inner coil, since that coil is wound all around it will still always have dead spots.

The other option is as follows.

Put the FG onto the inner coil where you also take a separate coil that has a core and many winds on it and add this in series with the inner secondary on the negative side of the pulse. Play with the FG and see how the output is in the outer primary. Again you may need to split the outer primary into halves or quads. Then try the same but now on the outer primary and output the secondary.

Small tests man.

Also, yesterday my wife picked up a can of this stuff at Canadian Tire. It was 10 bucks instead of 40.
http://www.rustoleum.com/en/product-catalog/consumer-brands/specialty/magnetic

@TinMan I know this is your show, your build, "your design" but man, do you want some help or not. Just say the word and I will no longer bug you. I will be putting up a new Half Coil Syndrome 2 youtube hopefully tomorrow, the contents of which should help clarify some of our most standard mistakes with pulsed coils. Every OUer needs to get this sunk into their heads. The game was never played by natures rules but forced by mans rules. hehehe

Listen man, learning is a two way street. One small side test on your part can save days of crap for many others and vise versa. We all spend time that hopefully saves time for others. The hours of trials I do on my bench to find the effects that help me make my videos is to open eyes and save years of hassles for others. If one shown effect can do that to only one guy that opens his eyes to an even newer effect, then the work gets compounded and that's how we all progress in this venue of illusion filled traps and misconceptions.

wattsup



Quote
PS: I have to say that your latest stint with @Erfinder was not cool. It does not cost anything to show some respect and the dividends in the long run could be worth it with just one new idea. You never know in advance from where that spark will come.

It was not i that lost respect first. Perhaps you had better go read what happened again,and then remove your incorrect statement above. What was not cool was Erfinder making the faulse claim that he knew how my system worked,and that i was misleading people when i associated my RT with that of one of Jim Murry's generators. I know how both of them work,and Erfinder dose not-->so why dose that mean it was i that lost respect?.
Respect is earned,and can be lost just as easy when unfounded claims are made against those that had that earned respect.

You are starting down the same path ,with your insistence that you know how !once again! to better a device that i have been working on,and through my own time and testing,know what outcomes are best. In stead of doing that-taking a stab in the dark as to how you think my device work's,maybe you should build your own,and carry out test as you see fit.

Brad
« Last Edit: 2015-11-21, 15:05:20 by TinMan »


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
Full Member
***

Posts: 113
It was not i that lost respect first. Perhaps you had better go read what happened again,and then remove your incorrect statement above. What was not cool was Erfinder making the faulse claim that he knew how my system worked,and that i was misleading people when i associated my RT with that of one of Jim Murry's generators. I know how both of them work,and Erfinder dose not-->so why dose that mean it was i that lost respect?.
Respect is earned,and can be lost just as easy when unfounded claims are made against those that had that earned respect.

You are starting down the same path Matt,with your insistence that you know how !once again! to better a device that i have been working on,and through my own time and testing,know what outcomes are best. In stead of doing that-taking a stab in the dark as to how you think my device work's,maybe you should build your own,and carry out test as you see fit.

Brad

Here's some truth for you Brad.  I have no idea what you know, and by the same token, you have no idea what I know, agree on that.  Take this further I don't care what you know, and I am pretty sure that the feeling is mutual. 

I can and will continue to say whatever I want regarding the RT and Murray machines.  I dropped the the debate on the other forum because you have it all figured out anyway, and are providing your superior knowledge free of charge to the public via monetized videos on YouTube, talk about conflict of interest.  You know I know that you don't owe anyone anything, but its rather interesting observing you label those you dislike as "criminal" for providing the gullible with, using a term you use often, "rubbish" you are in my opinion no better.  I guess you feel justified because you aren't taking the money directly from your peers.....See in a similar manner, you dear Tinman are doing your part in perpetuating the BS you claim to hate.  With that being said, you just might owe those folks you are bad mouthing an apology......

One video and you would be an overnight success story, those who threaten, couldn't, because those who would buy you would show up to your doorstep first.  I'm sure you would take the money.....I mean, you are accepting money from YouTube......

You would be wise to acknowledge those who did it before you and did it better than you, receiving patents on concepts which were properly named, and not simply dubbed with a catchy title.  Watching your following I am reminded of another who motivated many to mutilate perfectly good machines, you didn't like him either, none with a half decent understanding of how things work listened to the man.

I'm reminded of a gentleman by the name of Alexanderson who patented a rather interesting mechanism which has a hell of a lot more in common with what you claim (going by what YOU have provided).  The concept as with many of the electro-mechanical machines you have demonstrated are lifted from elsewhere.  That's my opinion, and I don't care what you or any of your following thinks about that statement.  All I see over and over again is a face lift on someone else work.  No harm in this, this is how the world works, however, claiming and or suggesting that you have provide the community with something original is insulting.  There is nothing original about any of it.  I can (won't because I don't feel like it) site old patents which share many commonalities with concepts you have been demonstrating over the years.  Having things in common doesn't make them the same, and so you know if it is the same.....and it was my work you copy and present as your own, I would be taking legal action against you, just saying...... 

If you don't want me responding to your posts, don't mention my name.



Regards
   
Group: Guest
You are starting down the same path Matt,with your insistence that you know how !once again! ...

Just for reference, Matt (Matt Watts, me) and wattsup are two different people with likely far different backgrounds.

I'm not here to fight, argue or debate with anyone.  I'm only here to see a device function as intended, on my own bench.  This has always been my simple goal.  I don't expect to ever understand how such a device really works, only that it does, repeatedly.  Concepts that I come up with or use to analyze a device are only tools or support fabrication to help proceed in the right direction, like scaffolding used to build a building--they likely won't be present when the building is finished.


Now back to the project...

I was able to melt my first batch of machinable wax into a slab.  Since this material is easily recyclable, I need to make some modification to the spoil board on my CNC router so the chips don't go flying all over the garage.  Once I get that done, I'll start cutting and hopefully shortly thereafter mix up some resin and do a pour.

I don't know how guys like Brad are able to move so fast--maybe I'm just more careful or maybe I just have a lot of other things on my plate.  Whatever it is, I'll get there.  It just won't be in a matter of hours; more like a matter of weeks.
   
Group: Guest
If you don't want me responding to your posts, don't mention my name.

Also just for the record, this is my workbench thread--based on Brad's HTT yes, though I see the Gabriel device is a close competitor.  I'm not following any detailed instructions; just using my instincts and resources best I can.

Please feel free to contribute however you would like Erfinder, particularly technical details.  If Brad feels so inclined, he is welcome to contribute here also.  I'm mostly interested in details and methods that will bring this type of device off paper and into my hand or everyone's hand if that be the case.  A list of things that have been tried and their results is helpful.  I don't know about everyone else, but I have a sense of urgency to get something working.  Maybe I know instinctively my time is running out or the writing is on the wall.  Whatever it is, something is guiding me to find a solution and do it expediently.
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2371
Everyman decries immorality
I don't know about everyone else, but I have a sense of urgency to get something working.  Maybe I know instinctively my time is running out or the writing is on the wall.  Whatever it is, something is guiding me to find a solution and do it expediently.
I have no prior knowledge of what you are doing on this project.

Can you explain very simply what your project goals are, method, theory etc ?

What do you expect to achieve ? COP>1 ?


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 530
You are starting down the same path Matt,with your insistence that you know how !once again! to better a device that i have been working on,and through my own time and testing,know what outcomes are best. In stead of doing that-taking a stab in the dark as to how you think my device work's,maybe you should build your own,and carry out test as you see fit.
Brad

@TinMan

Hallelujah brother. I finally have your answer which I can summarize as a simple "no thanks". It took some pocking and prodding but eventually I get the gist of it. At least I know where you stand and I will leave you with your own.

But just to be very very clear, the only one taking shots in the dark is you. Every day is another project that just pop up and then no more noise. Anyways, I was just trying to help you move forward while I was also trying to learn (and help others learn) at least something more then I already know. Be that as it may, please disregard my previous post as I am just pulling any offer to continue on this subject. Also, removing anything of my post would be useless since you copied the total post in your rebuttal.

But again just to be very very clear. I never said I know how better to improve your device. What I provided were some ideas the results of which would have provided a new angle, but if you take them as an insult, that is your problem, not mine.

So all there remains is to wish you "all the best".

wattsup



---------------------------
   
Group: Guest
I have no prior knowledge of what you are doing on this project.

Can you explain very simply what your project goals are, method, theory etc ?

The goal is to easily and in a repeatable fashion build a dual core toroid transformer.  Brad has termed his embodiment the Hybrid Toroid Transformer.  The inner core will be an OEM part, but the outer core will be fabricated.  The method I'm proceeding with is to CNC cut a mould into machinable wax, pour in a mixture of resin laced with magnetic material (steel) and allow it to harden.  Once cured, I will melt away the wax and retrieve the two outer core halves.  These two clam shell halves will be fitted over the pre-wound OEM toroid core, then a primary winding will be wound around this outer shell.  Once assembled, I will use a simple push-pull driver to excite the primary winding and begin taking measurements of input versus output power.  Various frequencies will be tried in pursuit of optimizing efficiency.  From this data I may proceed to try other OEM inner cores and winding ratios as well as fabricate various outer cores using different geometries and resin materials.  I will continue these optimizations until it is clear in my mind this device has merit or is a dead end.

The theory I'm basing this experimentation on, I posted previously.  I have termed the concept Asymmetric Coherency.  I have no idea if it is correct or even applicable at this time.  The data I gather will help me make that determination.

What do you expect to achieve ? COP>1 ?

I truly do not expect to be wildly successful.  I am hoping for a self-running device, preferably with considerable excess energy that can be easily harvested.  For now, even a failure that leads to a better understanding is welcome.  I fully suspect a completely electrical device can be made--one that powers itself as well as other devices.  I have seen too many artifacts to assume this possibility simply does not exist.  I have thought for a long time many experimenters simply did not pay enough attention to detail and skipped right over the accuracies needed to end up with a functioning device--right idea; poor implementation.  Some call it Survival of the Fittest where nature adjusts ad nauseum until she gets it right.  I see no reason why we wouldn't follow in her footsteps.
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2371
Everyman decries immorality
Looks like a lot of work has gone into that build Mike!

Do you have a sound historical reference that indicates a potential COP>1 performance from this design ?

Is there a hypothesis available that suggests why an energy gain in this setup might be seen ?

I am really trying to find a why ? for doing this.


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2523


Buy me some coffee
Here's some truth for you Brad.  I have no idea what you know, and by the same token, you have no idea what I know, agree on that.  Take this further I don't care what you know, and I am pretty sure that the feeling is mutual. 

I can and will continue to say whatever I want regarding the RT and Murray machines.  I dropped the the debate on the other forum because you have it all figured out anyway, and are providing your superior knowledge free of charge to the public via monetized videos on YouTube, talk about conflict of interest.  You know I know that you don't owe anyone anything, but its rather interesting observing you label those you dislike as "criminal" for providing the gullible with, using a term you use often, "rubbish" you are in my opinion no better.  I guess you feel justified because you aren't taking the money directly from your peers.....See in a similar manner, you dear Tinman are doing your part in perpetuating the BS you claim to hate.  With that being said, you just might owe those folks you are bad mouthing an apology......

One video and you would be an overnight success story, those who threaten, couldn't, because those who would buy you would show up to your doorstep first.  I'm sure you would take the money.....I mean, you are accepting money from YouTube......

You would be wise to acknowledge those who did it before you and did it better than you, receiving patents on concepts which were properly named, and not simply dubbed with a catchy title.  Watching your following I am reminded of another who motivated many to mutilate perfectly good machines, you didn't like him either, none with a half decent understanding of how things work listened to the man.

I'm reminded of a gentleman by the name of Alexanderson who patented a rather interesting mechanism which has a hell of a lot more in common with what you claim (going by what YOU have provided).  The concept as with many of the electro-mechanical machines you have demonstrated are lifted from elsewhere.  That's my opinion, and I don't care what you or any of your following thinks about that statement.  All I see over and over again is a face lift on someone else work.  No harm in this, this is how the world works, however, claiming and or suggesting that you have provide the community with something original is insulting.  There is nothing original about any of it.  I can (won't because I don't feel like it) site old patents which share many commonalities with concepts you have been demonstrating over the years.  Having things in common doesn't make them the same, and so you know if it is the same.....and it was my work you copy and present as your own, I would be taking legal action against you, just saying...... 

If you don't want me responding to your posts, don't mention my name.



Regards

If you dont want your name mentioned,then stop pretending you know how my devices work,and how you !think! they are based around or related to other devices. I dont go chasing patented designs to replicate or redesign,i build what i come up with. If you are also one of those who complain about me recovering some of my cost from youtube(very petty indeed),then dont watch my video's. No one pays me but those who advertise on my video's,and also make money from that advertising. I wonder if you are one that is happy to watch entertainment on television,while paying for the power the television uses?,but also one to complain about people like me who allow adverts on my video's so as i can afford to do what i do-experiment and share results. What do the adverts on my youtube channel cost you Erfinder?. I do not sell books of secrets,that are absolute crap-i present actual finding's,and show true results.

You so chuffed up about me making a little money from my video's?,well here is a few of things that money went toward.
1-Prizes in the pulse motor build off's for 3 years straight
2-$150.00 toward getting slider a scope so as he could better his experimental data.
3-the posting of transformers to all parts of the globe,where i also provided the transformers free of charge.

So here i am sharing my earnings with those that need it most-and here you are pissing and moaning that it's wrong of me to be earning a little from all my work.

You really are the pits Erfinder--i always thought you were better than that.


Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2371
Everyman decries immorality
I am hoping for a self-running device, preferably with considerable excess energy that can be easily harvested.  For now, even a failure that leads to a better understanding is welcome.  I fully suspect a completely electrical device can be made--one that powers itself as well as other devices.  I have seen too many artifacts to assume this possibility simply does not exist.

The part I highlighted in bold is the bit I have a hard time understanding.

How can you have a better understanding when you don't know why your doing it in the first place ?


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
Full Member
***

Posts: 113
If you dont want your name mentioned,then stop pretending you know how my devices work,and how you !think! they are based around or related to other devices. I dont go chasing patented designs to replicate or redesign,i build what i come up with. If you are also one of those who complain about me recovering some of my cost from youtube(very petty indeed),then dont watch my video's. No one pays me but those who advertise on my video's,and also make money from that advertising. I wonder if you are one that is happy to watch entertainment on television,while paying for the power the television uses?,but also one to complain about people like me who allow adverts on my video's so as i can afford to do what i do-experiment and share results. What do the adverts on my youtube channel cost you Erfinder?. I do not sell books of secrets,that are absolute crap-i present actual finding's,and show true results.

You so chuffed up about me making a little money from my video's?,well here is a few of things that money went toward.
1-Prizes in the pulse motor build off's for 3 years straight
2-$150.00 toward getting slider a scope so as he could better his experimental data.
3-the posting of transformers to all parts of the globe,where i also provided the transformers free of charge.

So here i am sharing my earnings with those that need it most-and here you are pissing and moaning that it's wrong of me to be earning a little from all my work.

You really are the pits Erfinder--i always thought you were better than that.


Brad

You aren't worth my time, not anymore.....  Stop cluttering this thread.
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2523


Buy me some coffee
Just for reference, Matt (Matt Watts, me) and wattsup are two different people with likely far different backgrounds.

I'm not here to fight, argue or debate with anyone.  I'm only here to see a device function as intended, on my own bench.  This has always been my simple goal.  I don't expect to ever understand how such a device really works, only that it does, repeatedly.  Concepts that I come up with or use to analyze a device are only tools or support fabrication to help proceed in the right direction, like scaffolding used to build a building--they likely won't be present when the building is finished.


Now back to the project...

I was able to melt my first batch of machinable wax into a slab.  Since this material is easily recyclable, I need to make some modification to the spoil board on my CNC router so the chips don't go flying all over the garage.  Once I get that done, I'll start cutting and hopefully shortly thereafter mix up some resin and do a pour.

I don't know how guys like Brad are able to move so fast--maybe I'm just more careful or maybe I just have a lot of other things on my plate.  Whatever it is, I'll get there.  It just won't be in a matter of hours; more like a matter of weeks.

Yes-sorry Matt. I put your name in a reply to wattsup
Will fix that now.

Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2523


Buy me some coffee
@TinMan

Hallelujah brother. I finally have your answer which I can summarize as a simple "no thanks". It took some pocking and prodding but eventually I get the gist of it. At least I know where you stand and I will leave you with your own.

But just to be very very clear, the only one taking shots in the dark is you. Every day is another project that just pop up and then no more noise. Anyways, I was just trying to help you move forward while I was also trying to learn (and help others learn) at least something more then I already know. Be that as it may, please disregard my previous post as I am just pulling any offer to continue on this subject. Also, removing anything of my post would be useless since you copied the total post in your rebuttal.

But again just to be very very clear. I never said I know how better to improve your device. What I provided were some ideas the results of which would have provided a new angle, but if you take them as an insult, that is your problem, not mine.

So all there remains is to wish you "all the best".

wattsup

It's like this wattsup.
If i dont see much interest in a project ,then why continue with it. As this one holds interest for a few,and i have seen results that are odd,then i will continue with it. I have made and tested 3 such transformers now,and have on order a larger ferrite core. I cant do much until that arrives,so im filling in my time with other projects people has asked me to do. The RT is that one device i cannot do anything about ATM,as there is more to what happened than most know about-but i do have a couple of guys looking into it.

I do listen to what others have to say,and i try what they ask when and if i can. But building one of these HTT's is both time consuming and not very cheap--so i just cant put into place everyone's ideas. So in the case of the HTT,i have to follow what i feel is the best path,and if others feel that there is a better way,then i only ask that they spend there time and money building there own device.

Brad


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2523


Buy me some coffee
  Stop cluttering this thread.

Dont even try  ^-^


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
Group: Guest
You guys crack me up.  :D

Not that I needed cracking up or anything.



EA, seriously?   I don't know why I'm doing this?   That's news to me.  Truth is, I know exactly why I'm doing it.  I'll give you one reason that is way down on my list--so my wife doesn't assign me other choirs I'd really rather not do.


Erfinder, TinMan,  we all need to go out someplace and do a little pistol shooting.  I can tell.  Over in these parts, gun control is defined by how accurately and quickly you can hit your target.  I suspect though I wouldn't have to worry about you guys shooting a hole in your foot.  What I would have to worry about is the both of you shooting a hole in mine.   :/
   
Full Member
***

Posts: 113
You guys crack me up.  :D

Not that I needed cracking up or anything.



EA, seriously?   I don't know why I'm doing this?   That's news to me.  Truth is, I know exactly why I'm doing it.  I'll give you one reason that is way down on my list--so my wife doesn't assign me other choirs I'd really rather not do.


Erfinder, TinMan,  we all need to go out someplace and do a little pistol shooting.  I can tell.  Over in these parts, gun control is defined by how accurately and quickly you can hit your target.  I suspect though I wouldn't have to worry about you guys shooting a hole in your foot.  What I would have to worry about is the both of you shooting a hole in mine.   :/

You made it clear that this is "your" bench.  I am a professional, and will conduct myself in your lab as a professional.  To hold a grudge is to cut myself off from a part of myself, so I hold none.  I patiently away my opportunity to assist you.



Regards
   
Group: Guest
 O0
   
Pages: 1 [2] 3
« previous next »


 

Home Help Search Login Register
Theme © PopularFX | Based on PFX Ideas! | Scripts from iScript4u 2018-12-10, 01:56:54