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Author Topic: Carbon Arc Gas plus Heat output  (Read 2493 times)
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In this area  - This guy and these claims have nagged at the back of my mind , so just in passing and a possible alternative to carbon http://www.electricitybook.com/cornish-generator/
(research on that patent quoted brings much more to light)

I think i will steer clear of that one,reason being-->some numbers from the patent.

Quote: A unit substantially as shown in the drawings has been used to drive a 500 cc motor cycle engine. The wire 22 had a diameter of 1,6 mm and was of commercial purity (98% Al). The unit produced over 1000 cc of hydrogen a minute, with an aluminium wire consumption rate of 140 to 180 cm per minute. The rate of deposition of aluminium oxide was about 4 kilograms per 500 kilometers travelled.

Conventional modifications were made to the carburettor to enable the engine to run on a mixture of hydrogen and air.

The wire 22 carries a voltage of about 18000 volts with a current of about 1 amp.

So,this setup uses 1.4 to 1.8 meters of ali wire a minute
!Apparently! the P/in to the unit is 18000 volts at 1 amp+18 Kilowatts  :o
All to produce 1 ltr of hydrogen per minute  ???-->something is not right here  ???

All patent info here

https://www.google.ch/patents/US4702894


Brad
   
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Brad – I am certainly not trying to miss- direct . Please however note this thing is pressure regulated (as pointed out in the patent) indeed it did demand 18 kw for very short bursts in short if blowing gas is the thing , this thing farted loudly twice an hour, I do better than that in my local bar – just saying


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Hi Brad and all

I'm in France ATM, that time of the year :) when I get back I will let you have some of what I have done in the past. A normal ICE will not cut it AFAIAC, a turbo jet will when designed to run on a different gas and to use the heat produced at the same time.

A jet engine works on expanded air, it is heated, expands through the turbine and so creates power. It can be over 80% efficient, unlike 25% of an ICE, I'm talking shaft power here, not thrust, and most of the loss is to heat. You can extract another 50% of that heat loss by pre heating your water with the exhaust gas.

If I have another spare moment here I will post more, other than that it will have to wait until my return.

Regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
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This was what I did back in 1989 and had an agreement not to do anything for 15yrs, this patent was then made because the agreement was about to run out and would give them a further 20yrs. The name on the patent is only a holder, ex navy and does not know anything of how this works, he has a well paid retirement. The drawings are an exact copy stolen from my office in Wrexham along with my passport "I was living in Spain at the time". A long story which could turn into a non fiction book.

https://www.google.com/patents/US20060086603

Regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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Everyman decries immorality
A normal ICE will not cut it AFAIAC, a turbo jet will when designed to run on a different gas and to use the heat produced at the same time.

Any heat engine submerged in the sump of a liquid cryogenic working fluid will transfer heat very efficiently, especially if externally insulated.

Brad's blow off safety valve for gaseous fuel creates the conditions for a DUT external thermobaric explosion in the presence of any ignition source. This concerns me, hhop gen 2 hybrid negates this problem via a controlled gas expansion and volume retraction, so the system operates at low pressure. Brad is careful, copycats are not.

A blow off valve can also operate as an automatic gas pressure system feedback timing governor. The peak pressure achieved triggers the snapvalve, which creates a drop in pressure behind the dump valve piston. This rapidly equalising gas impulse drives the piston mass of the cold engine.

That system runs on a high compression hot engine, and a low compression efficient gas expansion powered cycle. (no ignition event). I call it hhop gen 7  O0
« Last Edit: 2017-07-17, 21:08:22 by evolvingape »


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You can extract another 50% of that heat loss by pre heating your water with the exhaust gas.

You can do the same thing with a cryogenic gas propellant, that has spent it's energy driving the mass, and reduce the energy required to bring it up to phase transition point.

Recycling very hot waste gas to a cold waste gas environment must offer the maximum benefits due to a large thermal potential difference gradient being present.


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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your system of fracture is very elegant Mike and I know perfectly well that you had obliged a gagging requirement.
It seems to me the the opposition regard any acknowledgment to mean - forever
you did warn me all those years ago that working on that system would attract unwelcome attention from some very nasty people, I confess in my enthusiasm to learn the secret of 'mans red fire' (or rather the other mans red fire)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maRanuCqY64
 I opted to totally ignore your warning. That was to prove a big big mistake. like king Louis things didn't go well.
To enlarge on that just a little on my return from Spokane my house had been burgled and ransacked a lot of valuable things moved about but left behind, apart that is, from the workshop,equipment and work in progress. That was taken  and test equipment ruined.
Both my car and motorcycle were vandalized the motorcycle beyond any resuscitation hope.
Down at my local watering hole the next day a rather big guy (a bit like big king Louis) 'accidentally' knocked me and my bar stool flying - "Oh dear very very sorry - still a healthy guy like you won't mind a few knocks"now and again.I dare say the same goes for your daughter - and so it goes on.
you perhaps didn't realize it at the time (because I certainly didn't until later when I started checking with others who were following that thread and building) but your time and the time of others who had attended specifically to listen to you and exchange  information was carefully orchestrated.
Didn't you wonder how come no one building on your thread was there to attend your lecture?
Also as I probed the situation later It became very apparent that the PM  system leaks and information passed to those in the inner circle.
Luckily I had Nivisser's contact details anyway. check with him if you wish but you'll find that forum and the conference it organized is actually a self serving   'crock of shit'.
On a brighter note I did in due course build on your fx6 principles at least to a point where I knew it to be 'true and valid'.
you'll now appreciate that our meeting in the airport departure lounge was never supposed to happen I wondered at the time why Matt was trying to delay my ride to the airport until the last moment also why I was whisked away else where (with great insistence) to work on one of those silly toy wheels.
I know you have one or two patents in your own right but the whole area seems dubious to me .From Bill gates stealing and using Sinclair's WYSIWYG system to IEE head Robert Adams  miserable treatment from the Patent office all those years ago. If its obviously COP>1 you are simply not going to get a patent. in fact your far more likely to enjoy a lot of unpleasantness or mort.
What profit then in developing such systems?
I confess my own enjoyment is the research and history of really one off,determined ,clever people.
It should be noted that 'concerned' governments one way or another have first dabs on any patent you might choose to submit. The tongue in cheek reason being 'energy could be a weapon of war' I guess a tank won't go very far without a few big mouthfuls of something of t'other . unless fitted with one of Mr Pogue's carb's of course
http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?page_id=986
It might be interesting to consider someone who successfully bucked the unholy system, a system which actually outlaws efficient solar panels. someone working in the same area you are right now Brad. I write of course of the famed case of Stan Meyer. In a way Its quite easy to regard Stan as naive
that is until you take into account that he was well aware that he was going to be executed.
There is no-one across COP>energy research who hasn't heard of Stan no one who isn't aware of at least some of the sad saga. Most unfortunately at some level view his demise like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuH72G5qXow
But they are aware - In that respect his murder was not in vain.
Its important to realize that Stan was already a Millionaire in his own right . He owned a trucking spares and development company which already boasted  several ingenious big money making devices one of which constantly monitored the pressure of all rolling tires and alerted the driver in real time.
In a nutshell Stan didn't really need the money that his water fracture promised. Here however is Stan making it loud and clear (to me at least) that he was well aware of the opposition and what the outcome was probably going to be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGHv9qrbR5k
What actually got Stan publicly executed in the 'land of the free' was his knowledge of this catch 52 situation. Stans solution was request his patent advisor to take out patents all over the world . from Nigeria to Swaziland Holland et'al prior to involving his own countries system.
As you can imagine the patent system in some of these countries is simply a rubber stamp money collecting scam, Still when "the powers that be" said to Stan we can't issue a patent because 'its a weapon of war' and further issue this gagging order, of course " in the interests of national security" the calculated response of  oh dear me --- I can't do that unfortunately that patent and all its doings is already issued in many other countries. did not sit well.
R.I.P Stan Meyer . A brave man   


---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   
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Posts: 1760


Buy me some coffee
your system of fracture is very elegant Mike and I know perfectly well that you had obliged a gagging requirement.
It seems to me the the opposition regard any acknowledgment to mean - forever
you did warn me all those years ago that working on that system would attract unwelcome attention from some very nasty people, I confess in my enthusiasm to learn the secret of 'mans red fire' (or rather the other mans red fire)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=maRanuCqY64
 I opted to totally ignore your warning. That was to prove a big big mistake. like king Louis things didn't go well.
To enlarge on that just a little on my return from Spokane my house had been burgled and ransacked a lot of valuable things moved about but left behind, apart that is, from the workshop,equipment and work in progress. That was taken  and test equipment ruined.
Both my car and motorcycle were vandalized the motorcycle beyond any resuscitation hope.
Down at my local watering hole the next day a rather big guy (a bit like big king Louis) 'accidentally' knocked me and my bar stool flying - "Oh dear very very sorry - still a healthy guy like you won't mind a few knocks"now and again.I dare say the same goes for your daughter - and so it goes on.
you perhaps didn't realize it at the time (because I certainly didn't until later when I started checking with others who were following that thread and building) but your time and the time of others who had attended specifically to listen to you and exchange  information was carefully orchestrated.
Didn't you wonder how come no one building on your thread was there to attend your lecture?
Also as I probed the situation later It became very apparent that the PM  system leaks and information passed to those in the inner circle.
Luckily I had Nivisser's contact details anyway. check with him if you wish but you'll find that forum and the conference it organized is actually a self serving   'crock of shit'.
On a brighter note I did in due course build on your fx6 principles at least to a point where I knew it to be 'true and valid'.
you'll now appreciate that our meeting in the airport departure lounge was never supposed to happen I wondered at the time why Matt was trying to delay my ride to the airport until the last moment also why I was whisked away else where (with great insistence) to work on one of those silly toy wheels.
I know you have one or two patents in your own right but the whole area seems dubious to me .From Bill gates stealing and using Sinclair's WYSIWYG system to IEE head Robert Adams  miserable treatment from the Patent office all those years ago. If its obviously COP>1 you are simply not going to get a patent. in fact your far more likely to enjoy a lot of unpleasantness or mort.
What profit then in developing such systems?
I confess my own enjoyment is the research and history of really one off,determined ,clever people.
It should be noted that 'concerned' governments one way or another have first dabs on any patent you might choose to submit. The tongue in cheek reason being 'energy could be a weapon of war' I guess a tank won't go very far without a few big mouthfuls of something of t'other . unless fitted with one of Mr Pogue's carb's of course
http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?page_id=986
It might be interesting to consider someone who successfully bucked the unholy system, a system which actually outlaws efficient solar panels. someone working in the same area you are right now Brad. I write of course of the famed case of Stan Meyer. In a way Its quite easy to regard Stan as naive
that is until you take into account that he was well aware that he was going to be executed.
There is no-one across COP>energy research who hasn't heard of Stan no one who isn't aware of at least some of the sad saga. Most unfortunately at some level view his demise like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuH72G5qXow
But they are aware - In that respect his murder was not in vain.
Its important to realize that Stan was already a Millionaire in his own right . He owned a trucking spares and development company which already boasted  several ingenious big money making devices one of which constantly monitored the pressure of all rolling tires and alerted the driver in real time.
In a nutshell Stan didn't really need the money that his water fracture promised. Here however is Stan making it loud and clear (to me at least) that he was well aware of the opposition and what the outcome was probably going to be.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bGHv9qrbR5k
What actually got Stan publicly executed in the 'land of the free' was his knowledge of this catch 52 situation. Stans solution was request his patent advisor to take out patents all over the world . from Nigeria to Swaziland Holland et'al prior to involving his own countries system.
As you can imagine the patent system in some of these countries is simply a rubber stamp money collecting scam, Still when "the powers that be" said to Stan we can't issue a patent because 'its a weapon of war' and further issue this gagging order, of course " in the interests of national security" the calculated response of  oh dear me --- I can't do that unfortunately that patent and all its doings is already issued in many other countries. did not sit well.
R.I.P Stan Meyer . A brave man   

Well,if you had of put that story(MIB-suppression-and the likes)forward 3+ years ago,i would have called bullshit-this you would have seen in many of my replies to those that screamed the same song.
But now-now i tread with caution with what i do,and the time in which i will do it.

Some form of safety exists with this carbon arc stuff,as it has been done by many people, publicly announced and presented.Other systems will have to wait until retirement,where there will be little that they can take away--maybe things would have changed by then  O0.

Anyway,im heading back out to the workshop,to do some more on the PlazArc reactor.


Brad.
   

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Some form of safety exists with this carbon arc stuff,as it has been done by many people, publicly announced and presented.

Brad.

Indeed Brad.

It's " old hat " as I mentioned earlier this gas, under many names, was used to power early engines far away from a gas main!

CO  is flammable and combined with H burns nicely. I followed up on Peterae's Boric acid suggestion and found that it makes a very good lubricant that actually improves with the pressure..... Ideal for an ICE!

Cheers Graham.


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Indeed Brad.

It's " old hat " as I mentioned earlier this gas, under many names, was used to power early engines far away from a gas main!

CO  is flammable and combined with H burns nicely. I followed up on Peterae's Boric acid suggestion and found that it makes a very good lubricant that actually improves with the pressure..... Ideal for an ICE!

Cheers Graham.

Hi Grum

Yes,everything i read says this is one of the best,cleanest fuels around-and so easy to make.

JLN labs has some great info on this system-he call's it the BingoFuel reactor.
He runs his on about 30 volts AC,which means no dangerous HHO explosions  O0

His little setup produces 3 LTRs a minute.

I should be giving mine it's first run today-hopefully,just to see how fast the carbon rods are consumed.

The question is now-->are the carbon rods considered a fuel,gas stabilizer,or just a consumable ?.

Here is the link to JLNs tests.
http://bingofuel.online.fr/bingofuel/html/bfr10.htm


Brad
   

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Quote:

The question is now-->are the carbon rods considered a fuel,gas stabilizer,or just a consumable ?.

They are IMO, a stabilizer and a consumable. The carbon is oxidised so leaving no free oxygen to cause explosion, air has to be added to start the reverse reaction, that of burning, once started the oxygen molecule in the CO can be broken away and be used as an oxidiser again, but this time with hydrogen producing H2O and again with C but producing CO2.

It must always be considered that when burning with air, 72% N2, nox will be produced

Regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Ok,so below is a quick video of the PlazArc's first run,and man dose it thump out the gas  O0

I believe i made an error with the design,in that one of the rod holders is grounded to the body of the steel reactor. This rod is consumed about 4 times faster than the rod that is isolated from the reactors body  :o
So it would seem that i have to isolate both rods from the reactors steel body ?--anyone?.

Anyway,the reactor is filled with 1 ltr of rain water-no electrolites added.
The reactor is being powered by my old arc welder-so an AC current.
The welder is set on it's lowest setting-20 amp's,but the reactor is only using close to 11 amps at 34-36 volt's.

The water boils in under 2 minutes at this P/in  O0
A rubber glove stretched over the reactor with a small (7/16)copper tube pushed through the rubber glove,enabled me to get a rough gas flow output.
The gas output is about 3 ltr's a minute-measured by way of displacement of 1 ltr of water from a 1.25 ltr coke bottle-19 seconds to do so.

The gas it self burns very well-a very light colored orange flame,and no flash back into the reactor--so gas seems to be very stable.

At this point (proof of concept complete),i have decided to build a larger unit,and isolate both the carbon rods from the body of the reactor.
I have just gone and bought a box of carbon gouging rod's,and they were cheaper than i expected--works out to be 18 cents a rod,and they are 8mm rod's-largest i could buy at the welding supply shop.
They are copper coated,but i dont see that being a problem-pic below.

The video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWCFNt3Tu_I


Brad

   
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Quote:

The question is now-->are the carbon rods considered a fuel,gas stabilizer,or just a consumable ?.

They are IMO, a stabilizer and a consumable. The carbon is oxidised so leaving no free oxygen to cause explosion, air has to be added to start the reverse reaction, that of burning, once started the oxygen molecule in the CO can be broken away and be used as an oxidiser again, but this time with hydrogen producing H2O and again with C but producing CO2.

It must always be considered that when burning with air, 72% N2, nox will be produced

Regards

Mike 8)

Hi Mike

Yes-i have also confirmed that the gas will not burn until it is mixed with the ambient air--no flash back into the reactor. We also know that by using an Alternating Current,we will not be producing HHO--looks like we are on the right track here.  O0


Brad
   

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Excellent work Brad! I love the sound of the thing. It's really bubbling away too. And it looks like it's consuming the rods pretty fast, from your rate of adjustment.

I think that the gas evolved is bound to be saturated with water, that is, unreacted water in the form of steam or water vapour. Do you have any means of drying the gas output, so you can get volume flow measurements that are just for the gas (COHH?  ;)  )itself?


I wonder what would happen if instead of water you used, say.... vodka?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gSXi3BkkNA


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Excellent work Brad! I love the sound of the thing. It's really bubbling away too.

 




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gSXi3BkkNA

Quote
I wonder what would happen if instead of water you used, say.... vodka?

Lol-the vosla (vodka/tesla)reactor :D
The best thing about that video,is i can now put a face to the name--well half of one anyway lol.

Quote
And it looks like it's consuming the rods pretty fast, from your rate of adjustment.

As mentioned in my last post--only one rod is being consumed fast.
The rod that is !grounded! you could say,to the reactors steel body,is consumed about 4 times faster than the isolated rod--not sure why,but there obviously is a reason.

Those rods are from AA batteries,and are only 3mm in diameter,and there is a lot of current flowing through them(as far as rods that small go).
The rods seem to be melting ???,rather than being vaporized,as there is big blobs at the tips of the rods when i do a run. The rods are also very soft-chalky like,and you can break them up with your fingers.
The new 8mm carbon rods i bought are very hard and brittle,so i think the rods from the batteries are not very healthy-maybe just to old,as they came from batteries that had been sitting in an old remote control i had in one of my junk boxes for who knows how long.

Quote
I think that the gas evolved is bound to be saturated with water, that is, unreacted water in the form of steam or water vapour.

Yes,i did have water coming through the pipe,but the gas still burned quite well.
I would have thought that the water coming through would add the the water in the bottle i was using to measure the gas output with,by way of displacement.

Quote
Do you have any means of drying the gas output, so you can get volume flow measurements that are just for the gas (COHH?  ;)  )itself?

I do indeed,and that will be all in the PlazArc V2==which is already under construction.
I just got back from the hardware shop,as i needed a 12mm glass cutting hole saw,to cut the hole in my bourbon bottle reactor,and the rubber grommets to seal the 8mm rods.  O0


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Hi Brad.

If it were me I'd bang the tube straight into the smallest working ICE I had!

As most of us are aware that water vapour won't hinder it's use.

Regarding your earlier question I see the Carbon rods being both consumable and fuel, making the CO.

Cheers Graham.


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The question is now-->are the carbon rods considered a fuel,gas stabilizer,or just a consumable ?.

All three.

The thermal COP=1 or thereabouts from Brad's earlier experiments may only apply for the specific heat system, with any boiling occurring creating heated water vapour/steam removing energy from the system via latent heat liquid to gas phase transition.

Localised boiling will be happening at the electrodes anyway, but system latent heat energy loss needs to be observed for deviation from the COP=1 result. (energy being lost through heat transported in pseudo gas liquid water droplets)

The radiator idea might work if the thermal COP=1 goal is found to be specific. The prime mover to pump this liquid being the gas pressure developed from phase transition volume differential.

An auto carbon rod inserter needs to be designed to maintain the spark gap for repeated cycles.


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Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   

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I go along with Grum,  in the last war both spitfires and huricans ran on water vapour to extend their range for the same amount of fuel. Does not your car run better when it is raining?


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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All three.

An auto carbon rod inserter needs to be designed to maintain the spark gap for repeated cycles.

This has been done many times....   ;)

http://www.lafavre.us/brush/lamparc.htm


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This has been done many times....   ;)

http://www.lafavre.us/brush/lamparc.htm

I know  O0

Sometimes us grandads need to fill in the blanks for the readers that don't know. (sometimes me)

We should continue our old discussion on a single piston high compression maximum heat engine, using ethane, methane, hho, carbon gas mixed fuels..

That li'l old Leek engine sure showed promise!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwjTDXR31KA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TADh_zpFXp0


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Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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Hi Grum,

what do you mean by "high-frequency spark" ?

Do you mean a multi-spark-ignition-system ?

http://dtec.net.au/Multi%20Spark%20Ignition.htm


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Two centuries old and still amazes.. if only he had submerged it in water..


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Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
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I go along with Grum,  in the last war both spitfires and huricans ran on water vapour to extend their range for the same amount of fuel. Does not your car run better when it is raining?

Not so much when it's raining,but more so when it's cold.
When it's a cold brisk morning,the air is much denser,and this becomes a form of intercooler for the engine.

Brad
   

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Hi Grum,

what do you mean by "high-frequency spark" ?

Do you mean a multi-spark-ignition-system ?

http://dtec.net.au/Multi%20Spark%20Ignition.htm


Mike

Hi Mike.

Perhaps not. We were using an RMC PWM to drive a standard 12 volt ignition coil driven in the low KHz region.

There seemed to be an optimum frequency that worked the best.

I was amazed that the engine ran at all considering the fuel is so perfect, stoichiometrically!

Cheers Graham.


---------------------------
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suggest centre tapped 110 volt tranny (obviously not using 240v input) I guesss you have the same beasts in OZ for construction site use ? perhaps input from a variac if youv'e got a big enough beast around your drum.


of course centre tap to your case - the centre tap (ground) is de'facto at 55v in normal use . love that thing Brad, throw some weeds in with the vodka might make a good hubble bubble!


---------------------------
How many more to be .threatened, abused murdered, Their research in the hands of evil corporations intent on total control ?
http://dnp.s3.amazonaws.com/b/b9/suppressed.pdf
whilst we know little .. friends remember,
In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
D. Erasmus
   
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