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Author Topic: What is Known about the TPU  (Read 171034 times)

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I started this topic as a holder for the general information on the TPU from Steven and the videos.


Dr. Roland Schinzinger:
http://www.onlineethics.org/about/history/advisory_group_bios/schinzinger_bio.aspx

http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/senate/inmemoriam/RolandSchnizinger.htm

TPU - Info from Steven Mark:
http://www.thewaterengine.com/pdf/stevenmarktpu.pdf
   
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I've done some research on Roland Schinzinger. He was mentor to the electric vehicle study group at UCI. he must have known about energy densities kW/kg. He would have been knowledgeable  enough to sniff out a fraud in the TPU.

Nevertheless,  he ran at least two tests on the device, one at his lab and one at the inventors home. In each case he was mystified and wanted to study the device further.

So much for power line coupling theories or hidden batteries.

From what I can determine Dr. Schinzinger had outstanding credentials, wrote many engineering texts, including a book on "Ethics In Engineering" and seemed to be a very honorable fellow.

We should all make an effort to revive this subject, specifically the two tests by Schinzinger and the engineering report by Michael Fennel.

Then perhaps we can tune in on some of the correspondence of SM to Lindsay.

A little refresher couldn't hurt and might spark some new insights.

Thanks to Grumpy for the kickstart


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I hope to rekindle some interest in the device.  We know enough now to build it, and also discover some very interesting things along the way.  

However, not much is being built and few experiments are being performed.

There are a handful of Michael Fennell's in California.

EDIT:

Michael is a physicist, not an EE.  I think I have located him and will call tomorrow.
   
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I've done some research on Roland Schinzinger. He was mentor to the electric vehicle study group at UCI. he must have known about energy densities kW/kg. He would have been knowledgeable  enough to sniff out a fraud in the TPU.
Nevertheless,  he ran at least two tests on the device, one at his lab and one at the inventors home. In each case he was mystified and wanted to study the device further.

Does it surprise you that most all of the supposed experts are mystified? Does it surprise you that most all of them have literally no idea of how any FE devices could work? I read a neat statement the other day from a PhD---- For every PhD there is an equal and opposite Phd, lol. This should tell you a great deal of the state of what we call science, for instance how can two experts of unquestionable knowledge,experience and credentials (men of science) draw completely different conclusions from identical data and experiments?. If one single person of unquestionable knowledge,experience and credentials is wrong then any one of them can be wrong in which case all their knowledge,experience and credentials count for little as any fool can be wrong about anything. The real issue here is egotism and what we could call the god complex, that is silly delusional people who honestly believe they could not possibly be wrong about anything. It would seem the only people who have found success in this field are the ones who are willing to admit they do not know everything and have an open mind in this regard. Curious people who question everything and anything and who take nothing for granted, I believe milehigh calls them anarchists,lol.

Regards
AC


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The Toroidal Power Unit (TPU) is a real device that produces REAL power from the "earth's" magnetic field, which has an inherent magnetic frequency and we tune into it.
« Last Edit: 2010-09-18, 03:36:08 by EMdevices »
   
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Ion, Grumpy:

The TPU section is quite large on this site, I imagine there is much more info elsewhere.  Can either of you give me a link to a clip(s) that you think is a good demo and/or explanation?  Or perhaps a good link with a digestible amount of text, say less than five pages.  If there is a preferred thread around here for talking about this, let me know.  I know that Ion has made reference to unexplained anomalies also.

I think I have seen most of the old Steven Mark clips that you can see were done way back on videotape.  About two years ago I watched lots of free energy clips.

Please be forewarned, I may not get engaged in the debate.  I'm not impressed with the original Steven Mark clips and when I hear people say they can tap into the "energy in the earth's magnetic field" my eyes tend to glaze over.  When I see light-bulbs light up, it seems I always see a place to hide the battery.  I am quite good at deconstructing clips like that on YouTube.

Thanks,

MileHigh
   
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EMdevices:

I suppose I am executing my programming here, but about your comment:

Quote
The Toroidal Power Unit (TPU) is a real device that produces REAL power from the "earth's" magnetic field, which has an inherent magnetic frequency and we tune into it.

Can you elaborate on the magnetic frequency statement?  What do you mean by "tuning into it?"

The earth's magnetic field relative to an observer on the surface of the earth is for all practical intents and purposes stable and unchanging for both intensity and direction.  A DC magnetic field is not very exciting in terms of energy generation, you can't extract any energy from it.

There is a Youtube clip where a guy has a big "earth magnetic field motor":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0RUzDtdZR0

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For me the most interesting thing that was given to us was the movement of the Valve filament when first switched on, it tugs, this tug causes premature mechanical failure of the filament.

So why does the filament tug?

Following Spherics instructions on how to find the kick, i have explosion noises from a wire, to me this is the same as the tug on the filament.

Why is the earth magnetic field important, well it's a reference frame.

If you put your hand on a door knob and pull, 2 things can happen, if the door is locked you move towards the door, if the door is unlocked the door moves to you.

Think about the wash board effect of the TPU, all thats happening here is when the kick occurs it locks to the earths reference frame.

The earths magnetic field is locked in place, if a low energy way can be found to cause a very fast moving ripple that tugs against the earth magnetic field then there should be a way to extract this energy, the problem is that i don't think the fast moving ripple is actually a pure magnetic field.

The above is only my view of how i see it, forget about trying to work out how the TPU works or how it was faked, we need to move past that and look for things Physics cannot explain.

I suggest you clever guys concentrate on my explosion in a wire experiment, to do this lets develop a simple circuit that reproduces the effect, build a number of the boards and all study it on our benches.

The effect doesn't need high voltage or high current, the key is 2 fast switched pulses connected to one bifilar coil, i have already found the effect can easily be reproduced by injecting 2 white noise signals in to two nS pulse switches connected to a bifilar coil.

To make this available for all we need a circuit that takes a ttl level pulse from a white noise pic processor converts this to as short as possible low side driver which can switch 50 volts at a max of 2 amps.

I currently use a digital monostable which can vary the pulse width and phase using delay lines, this gives me 0-255nS for width and phase, but using the whitenoise drivers the phase is not needed and because the pulse width does not need to be variable we can do away with this module, so all we need is the switch stage for you all to study the effect i am seeing.

If i can build the boards up for
Poynt,Grumpy,Milehigh,Ion, EMdevices and anyone else interested and start a thread to converse on, maybe we could make some progress, but there is one catch this needs to be open source.

offcourse you all may not be interested.

Just as a reminder here's the video again of my first discovery of the kick.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwtPIennXP4[/youtube]

Note in the above discovery, i was using random triggered fets to create the white noise, i didn't know this at that time.The fast switched transients were causing retriggering of my fet stages.

It is also very likely SM used white or pink noise in his tests of his 3d spacial speaker system, i believe he discovered the kick using these tests on a spectrum analyser.
« Last Edit: 2010-08-20, 09:37:47 by Peterae »
   
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For me the most interesting thing that was given to us was the movement of the Valve filament when first switched on, it tugs, this tug causes premature mechanical failure of the filament.

So why does the filament tug?

Following Spherics instructions on how to find the kick, i have explosion noises from a wire, to me this is the same as the tug on the filament.

Why is the earth magnetic field important, well it's a reference frame.

If you put your hand on a door knob and pull, 2 things can happen, if the door is locked you move towards the door, if the door is unlocked the door moves to you.

Think about the wash board effect of the TPU, all thats happening here is when the kick occurs it locks to the earths reference frame.

The earths magnetic field is locked in place, if a low energy way can be found to cause a very fast moving ripple that tugs against the earth magnetic field then there should be a way to extract this energy, the problem is that i don't think the fast moving ripple is actually a pure magnetic field.

The above is only my view of how i see it, forget about trying to work out how the TPU works or how it was faked, we need to move past that and look for things Physics cannot explain.


Einstein–de Haas effect ???

http://www.physik.uni-karlsruhe.de/Studium/F-Praktika/Downloads/Einstein_de_Haas_Juli08.pdf

http://demonstrations.wolfram.com/EinsteinDeHaasEffect/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Einstein%E2%80%93de_Haas_effect

or :
http://www.leonardo-energy.org/webfm_send/51
« Last Edit: 2010-08-20, 11:13:33 by wings »
   
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The earth's magnetic field relative to an observer on the surface of the earth is for all practical intents and purposes stable and unchanging for both intensity and direction.  A DC magnetic field is not very exciting in terms of energy generation, you can't extract any energy from it.

People have claimed that the "Field" is stationary in a axially spinning magnet.

If this is true, then as the as the earth spins , we on the surface, are moving at approximately 1000 mph at the equator through a stationary magnetic field cutting flux lines

But you cannot measure this with a loop, since the signal will be nulled by each half of the loop. A wire vertical antenna at the equator might have a voltage appear at it's ends, but you can't measure it or close the loop, any attempt to do so creates an equal voltage in the measuring device, so we see a null.

SM may have figured out a way to create a spiral vortex of this magnetic field, which then allowed him to tap it's energy.

SM said he did not know why his unit (FTPU) would not work upside down. It would seem the impulses to create the vortex were fighting the "coriolis" (if I may use the term loosely) within the device when it was upside down.

As I said before, the implications of this are enormous. Even though it is a weak field, the velocity we are moving through this fixed field is quite fast.

But I'm still on the fence concerning the claim of a static field with axial rotation of the magnet.
« Last Edit: 2010-08-20, 15:19:44 by ION »


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It is also very likely SM used white or pink noise in his tests of his 3d spacial speaker system, i believe he discovered the kick using these tests on a spectrum analyser.

Back as far as the 60's I did some experiments with slight movements in the frame of a loudspeaker. I noticed an immediate widening of the sound field with a single speaker. The sound field could no longer be localized and seemed to be coming from everywhere in the room. Certainly not 3D, but nevertheless a pronounced spatial effect. Minimizing standing waves in a room certainly creates spatiality.

I then theorized that it would not be necessary to move the frame of the loudspeaker if an additional winding on the voice coil could be arranged to provide a "wobble" to the cone in addition to the normal piston motion.

I believe that SM may have theorized along these same lines, and was experimenting with "specially made dual voice coil loudspeakers" when he discovered "the effect or kick". (Spheric spoke about this).

I believe what we call the FTPU was perhaps his very first embodiment to explore the anomolous energy. I believe he chose a wire spool and supported the windings on the rim because he expected some flexing or freedom of movement to get the effect, as in a voice coil.

But this was not needed as he later learned it was all happening at a high enough frequency (5kHz) that the wire insulation allowed for tiny movement.

The SM17 core appears to be toroidially wound over two wooden hoops with cork like material sandwiching poloidial wires. The height to width ratio would allow for considerable vibration or "banjo string effect"* of the vertical wires.

These are just my thoughts, not facts.

*I first heard of this descriptive term (LOL) in an engineering reference with regard to  potentiometers in the several watt class that were wound with fine wire, an hysteresis effect as the wiper plucked or moved the windings.
« Last Edit: 2010-08-20, 15:30:35 by ION »


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I think precise phase delay is more predictable than random noise.

Explosions were also experienced by my 10kv dual gap pulser - very strong and loud but not easy to reproduce.

No offense, but I don't buy the powerline theory and I think the earth's magnetic field was used in early devices, but replaced by coils that generated the necessary bias field.  Anything with a magnetic moment will attempt to align with a magnetic field.  If a current is present then the "anything" will experience a force perpendicular to the current and the mag field - the Lorentz Force.

If you want to jump in the TPU foray fast, then read the pdf I posted at the beginning and view the long video that has U.E.C letters.

The documents I have found and experiments I have done to date point to a medium underlying everything.  Call it "aether", or Dirac's Sea, or just "medium".  Regardless of the name, it exists.  It can be contracted or expanded.  Yes, I am saying that the properties of "vacuum" or "space" can be changed and also that it is not hard to do.

Presume I am correct for the sake of humor if nothing else and ask yourself: What could I do if I could change the properties of space?
   
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Ion:

Quote
If this is true, then as the as the earth spins , we on the surface, are moving at approximately 1000 mph at the equator through a stationary magnetic field cutting flux lines

But you cannot measure this with a loop, since the signal will be nulled by each half of the loop. A wire vertical antenna at the equator might have a voltage appear at it's ends, but you can't measure it or close the loop, any attempt to do so creates an equal voltage in the measuring device, so we see a null.

As we turn on the earth we may indeed cut magnetic flux lines.  But it doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is if there is a change in the total magnetic flux going through your loop of wire.  In engineering or physics talk, there is no change in flux through the surface integral defined by the loop of wire.  A half-loop of wire or a vertical antenna will not produce any EMF either because there is no changing flux.

Peterae:

I haven't really followed the "explosion noises" thread and I am not 100% clear on what your clip is showing.  There is a lot of ghostly noise that seems to be superimposed on the top trace and much less on the bottom trace.  It looks like a digital scope with digital display also so I find what appears to be some sort of noise on the display very puzzling.

Is it possible that the "explosion noises" are simply related to the fact that when two parallel wires conduct current there can either be an attraction or a repulsion force between the wires?  That's why some coils sing and 60 Hz power transformers can hum.

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I believe SM said that one important aspect of TPU operation related to the sudden and brief spike you get when current first starts flowing in a wire

That said though, I think, (aside from contacting grumpy's witness) If we wanted to take a fresh look at the TPU, we could consider starting from scratch and looking at things theoretically instead of attempting to follow clues and replicate a pre-established design.

Essentially, we could ask:

What are some candidate energy sources/fields
What frequency do they operate at
What vector of motion

And then think practically - what device can harness small amounts of energy, additively, so as to perpetuate its operation via our candidate energy source.

I'm very confident that if the construction is approached this way (instead of replicating an existing device) - we have MUCH less risk of being mislead or duped
   
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Quote
As we turn on the earth we may indeed cut magnetic flux lines.  But it doesn't matter, the only thing that matters is if there is a change in the total magnetic flux going through your loop of wire.  In engineering or physics talk, there is no change in flux through the surface integral defined by the loop of wire.  A half-loop of wire or a vertical antenna will not produce any EMF either because there is no changing flux.

I understand the concept of a change in flux as one method to induce a current flow. What is perplexing is the homopolar generator/motor, where a loop that exits the pole and enters the equator will have a current induced in it. Since it can be made axially symmetrical and lie directly on and conform to the fictitious "field lines" where is the change of flux?

Phantasm: some good points

Grumpy: Agreed later units used a bias field and were not at all position sensitive, further devaluing power line coupling effects.


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Just to play the bad guy with respect to the old Steven Mark TPU clips and explore possible fakery:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvLuQOKOVXQ

The old "two lamp" clip.  The lamps could easily have held some batteries and circuitry to light up the bulbs.

I'll throw in the Agent Gates clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MdrHAttl-ro

Are people still excited about this clip, I don't know?  I assume that we are talking about 90 volts DC here?  If I really wanted to hunt I would figure out what multimeter he was using to see if it was set on AC or DC.  I am assuming that it is set on DC because I think the guy hid 10 9-volt batteries inside his big toroid.  But, I assume that everything to do with a TPU is normally supposed to be AC-based right?  Of course I realize that he could be rectifying the output.  Notice the clip was posted in January 2010 but Agent Gates is sticking to the old outdated YouTube video format where the clip resolution is poor and there are no options to view it at higher resolutions.  I am going to assume that it's not because he has a crappy video camera, but rather this was intentional on his part.

What's the deal with the 3 V @ 0.2 A in and 90 V @ 4 A out?  One more time, this dude is not indicating AC or DC, what gives?   I don't see anything in the poor-resolution clip that looks like a 3-volt battery.  Why would he not show that?  90-volts at 4 amps out, in that clip?   That's 360 watts!  No way Jose!  Those are probably two 15-watt 120 VAC light-bulbs.  Note that they are a low enough in power consumption so that chances are ten 9-volt alkaline batteries in series will make them pretty much look fully illuminated as far as making this clip goes.  They would probably be moderately brighter if you plugged them into 120 VAC.  If you tried to truly draw 360 watts from that setup, the 10 hidden alkaline batteries would croak!

Back to a Steven Mark "small device" clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sHswoNpc0Tk

62 volts is HIGHLY suspicious.  That's one-half of 120 volts.  When the chassis of an electronic device powered by 120 VAC is floating, you will typically measure 62 volts AC between the chassis and the mains neutral connection.  I am rusty here and Poynt or someone else might need to correct me.  The most important point being that you can easily measure a 62-volt AC "tingle voltage" with respect to some electronic equipment without having to do anything.

It may be like this:  If you have a 2-prong non-polarized plug for a piece of electronic equipment, you are really Old School here.  It may be between the third-prong ground (a true earth ground) and one of the two polarities that will consistently show 62 volts of potential.  This is all high-impedance potential, there is no closed-loop path for the current to flow.

The whole business of him flipping the thing over and seeing the voltage drop is a parlor trick.  I mention above that the tingle voltage is high impedance.  He could be grounded, and when he flips the device over he touches it, and the chassis of the device starts to slowly "short out" through his grounded body and that makes the tingle voltage start to decrease.

Note also that Steven Mark is measuring voltage ONLY, so he is not worried about demonstrating any POWER output for the device.  That makes his life so much simpler!  He could easily hide a 3-volt button battery and a little circuit to generate the 62 volts also, and use a mercury switch to cut the power when you turn it over.  A capacitor on the far side of the mercury switch would continue to power the circuit for a few more moments and give you the declining AC voltage that you see on the multimeter.  But my bet is on the tingle voltage because that's so much easier!

Call me Archie Debunker!  lol

MileHigh
« Last Edit: 2010-08-20, 17:59:39 by MileHigh »
   
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Ion:

I agree that the homopolar generator is perplexing.  The entry on Wikipedia is there for all to read, as a first step.  I don't have all the answers.

I guess that I have a question, it goes against what Phantasm said.  Does anybody claim to have one working and also is willing to share the plans?  If yes, someone should replicate and test it.

Honestly, I don't believe that any combination of transformer windings or any exotic transformer configurations can produce free energy.  So I am going to be a very hard egg to crack here.  When people look at transformer-based designs, you can argue that all they have to look at is the generation of changing magnetic flux and the path that flux takes, and the reception of that changing magnetic flux with the "catcher's mitt" of the secondary coil.  They also have to look at the energy carrying capacity of the medium for the flux, i.e.; the core(s).  Beyond that, almost everything else is irrelevant.

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In regards to the device turning off, stopping, or reducing output when flipped over:

If you look at a pictorial diagram of the Lorentz Force, the force reverses if the magnetic polarity is reversed.   If you somehow applied a force to a conductor in a static magnetic field, just like the Lorentz force diagram or a generator, the current will have a polarity determined by the direction of the magnetic field.  Now reverse the field, keep the force the same direction, and the polarity of the current reverses.  If you oscillation circuit only works with a supply with a certain polarity, then it will stop because you reversed the supply.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-hand_rule

So, if the device relies on "gravity" or "the earth's magnetic field" or some other field or force outside the device that is not flipped when the device is flipped then the output reverses polarity and the device stops working as if you started rotating the generator backwards (remember that he looped part of the output back to the controller for self-running mode).

Then there is the issue with the rotating compass in the center of the TPU and SM said that the direction of rotation is opposite in the Northern and Southern Hemispheres (CCW and CW respectively).  I'm waiting to see this with powerline coupling or batteries.

There are several means of induction beside varying magnetic flux.   The Rowland Effect, Roentgen Current, and Wilson Effect are use spin coupling between a rotating element (conductor or dielectric) and a static magnetic field.

Another issue realte to the above effects/currents and the homopolar generator is that SM stated that the voltage goes up by 1/3 when the device is unloaded.  He called this spinning up and to me this indicates the rotation may have also increased.  If that is the case, then to me this is indicative of "back torque" from the load and is known in homopolar generators.


   
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We covered all similar debunking probably four years ago: Batteries hidden in the lamps, showing some small voltage, not power, hollow base on Large TPU with hidden batteries etc. on and on ad nauseum.

I played devils advocate for along time using another name on another forum and raised many arguments as to how it could be faked.

That first youtube clip you mention is probably the easiest to debunk: The wall outlet could be a fake and merely closes the circuit of a relay and batteries hidden in the lamp bases. The TPU also closes the same circuit. The illusion being that the lamps were powered by the outlet and consequently by the TPU.

As for the other video of the "thumbs up dude" that is a known fake. There are many such fakes by attention seeking experimenters that flat out failed to actually create anything.

The whole TPU enigma has become so polluted with fakes and misinformation that it will be very difficult for you to find the jewels amongst all the trash that has been posted.

I agree that no amount of plain old transformer action will get you anything....this is well known  science.

Read Dr. Schinzinger's test reports first, then the Michael Fennell report. Then download the video torrents I posted earlier, they are fairly high quality. The UEC video is not in that pack. Someone else can point to a good quality version of that one.

Then maybe read some of the early SM communiques with Lindsay. Even if it may be some  disinformation, you will know where to not look.

Finally, forget most of the crap on youtube claimed to be working replications. They are shoddy at best and prove nothing.

I think there are a few here that are still open minded about the TPU and as presented by SM to be one of the most interesting devices to appear in the last decade or so. (enigma wise )

There are also those that have performed many experiments and have given up and now call it a fake.

I am on the fence, open minded, and find the SM17 to be of interesting construction. I find some of the SM videos convincing, others are easy to point to a source of trickery if in fact there was any.

Perhaps others can chime in with a vote of ay, nay or on the fence.
« Last Edit: 2010-08-20, 19:42:13 by ION »


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Is it possible that the "explosion noises" are simply related to the fact that when two parallel wires conduct current there can either be an attraction or a repulsion force between the wires?  That's why some coils sing and 60 Hz power transformers can hum.

MileHigh yes this is  very possible, so explain to me how many watts of energy would it take to make 2 parallel wires clonk together fast enough and with enough energy to produce an explosion noise that can be heard from 5 feet, also it's not possible to see the wires move,  and the other problem is i can also produce the explosions in a single wire coil(monofilar), but i guess each single turn could clonk against it's adjacent turn.

I don't even know if it's even possible to get a bifilar to draw much current when being pulsed with nS pulses, Ive always had to use bursts and time the burst correctly to get the coil to even think about taking anything more than 30mA.
   

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Guys you've got to move past it's a fake, if thats your view why spend any time on it.

You need to be a believer or move onto another device.
   

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What causes an explosion, isn't it something moving faster than the speed of sound, if so then we can say if i am banging two wires together then i am moving them fast, how much energy does it take to accelerate 2 wires fast enough to do this, why can i not see them move.

Grumpy you were talking about a dscharge in your explosion, this is not a discharge i am only using 35 volts.
   

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What causes an explosion, isn't it something moving faster than the speed of sound, if so then we can say if i am banging two wires together then i am moving them fast, how much energy does it take to accelerate 2 wires fast enough to do this, why can i not see them move.

Grumpy you were talking about a dscharge in your explosion, this is not a discharge i am only using 35 volts.

It was similar to a rifle crack. Loud as Hell.  No visible flash. No movement. Hard to tell where it was coming from.  By listening for a few minutes, I concluded that it was at the output terminals of my 10kv ignition transformer (240mA) and placed a piece of very thick PE there and it stopped occuring. I have not been able to reproduce it, but can not remember the exact setup.   The explosions occured at steady intervals of several seconds - maybe the "pressure" had to build up.

Some of us have covered a lot of ground if anyone is interested and wants to build and experiment.   Peter can get you the explosions.  Myself and others can get you space with altered properties, attractive coils (physically attract objects), and show you tounge-in-cheek ways to explore these things.   The most important thing is to experiment.

I say "experiment" because if you build a finished device straight away, then it will probably not work and you will get discouraged.  Say you are pulsing away and your field drops off before the collector...you got nothing...only you don't know that because you don't know how to probe the field.



   

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There will also be some configurations that produce no sound at all. Unless you record all your high-points with video and audio.

I'm sure Peter's reports of such audio are for the same reason I've found.... electret microphone. Then there is the video problems... usually do to the Super-8 loosing sync - or - as in later years.... camera reboots and CCD sensitive to more than visible light.
All are nothing more than annoyances and gave folks a reason to cry 'foul' or 'lousy test methods'.

As far as mis-connected transformers... This is not something to overlook. Everything about a so-called 'TPU' reeks of perpendicular windings, out of phase signals and an induction lover's worst nightmares.

When it comes to the magnetic flux not rotating about the axis... I'll draw a picture because recent comments indicate many of us still don't see it for the simplicity it is.

 


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"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
   

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The sound my coil was making in the video was audible to my ear without a microphone from upto 5 feet away in the room, but yes an electret does pick up the sound, and also i have heard the strange sweep audio noises when i sweep through the phase delay settings, this sweeping noise is picked from some distance, it can be heard in many of my videos, but not to the ear, it's only when i play back some videos i did there very spooky sounds in the recordings.
   
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