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Author Topic: Splitting the something - a simple experiment that works  (Read 3108 times)
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TK and TinMan are having a lively tete a tete in the main thread 'Splitting the Negative' at the moment and I wanted to expand around it all, but not thread hijack !
Hence, because of a re-do of an old experiment outside just now, this is a Bench topic.



Take some stuff outside - a car battery, a couple of clip leads and an LED that's on a blocking oscillator.
(1meg resistor and 0.1uF cap to the Base of something like a 2N3904. 100uF input cap, 120+120 coil on a ferrite core). A Joule Thief basically.
Connect the circuit positive to the battery.
Connect the circuit negative straight into the ground, just stick the cliplead into the earth.
The LED will begin to flash.

The batt positive is something like 12V, the Earth ground is something like 0V.
Fine, potential difference, but where is the conventional circuit ?
Is the Splitting the Negative principle based on the same thing ?

Btw, the battery here is the 'good' Alum one from the solar experiments posted recently. It's at 11.09V, so you don't need a fresh car battery for this experiment by any stretch.



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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   
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TK and TinMan are having a lively tete a tete in the main thread 'Splitting the Negative' at the moment and I wanted to expand around it all, but not thread hijack !
Hence, because of a re-do of an old experiment outside just now, this is a Bench topic.



Take some stuff outside - a car battery, a couple of clip leads and an LED that's on a blocking oscillator.
(1meg resistor and 0.1uF cap to the Base of something like a 2N3904. 100uF input cap, 120+120 coil on a ferrite core). A Joule Thief basically.
Connect the circuit positive to the battery.
Connect the circuit negative straight into the ground, just stick the cliplead into the earth.
The LED will begin to flash.

The batt positive is something like 12V, the Earth ground is something like 0V.
Fine, potential difference, but where is the conventional circuit ?
Is the Splitting the Negative principle based on the same thing ?

Btw, the battery here is the 'good' Alum one from the solar experiments posted recently. It's at 11.09V, so you don't need a fresh car battery for this experiment by any stretch.

Good day All
Here's a short video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=__Idc66i-30&t=15s
  This is a follow up video to one I made a couple of years ago which showed *ground_current* lighting up a 100 watt incandescent bulb which was placed in series with the SSTC ground line.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wysm0Zxpz5k
  It was suggested that a *ground-loop* was being formed through which the current from the H-bridge Inverter could return to the public power grid causing the 100watt incandescent bulb in series with the Ground-Line of the SSTC to light up.
  I felt compelled to continue because I wanted to know for certain if a *ground-loop* was indeed responsible for lighting up that 100watt bulb.
  In this video the SSTC is powered by a home-made 1000watt battery powered inverter which is running off of a 12VDC deep cycle rechargeable battery. The inverter is running at approximately 21kHz and the output is an AC square wave.  The deep cycle battery is NOT connected to Ground (it is Isolated by rubber wheels and located up off the ground in a steel battery box)  and neither is the 1000watt inverter.  The only ground connection is the 10 meter long ground cable (with incandescent bulb in series) connected from the base of the Tesla Secondary to a piece of Steel Rebar which is part of a concrete footing.
  As can be seen, when the SSTC streamer discharges are the longest, the incandescent bulb is at it's brightest.
As in your LED blocking oscillator setup..... the circuit does not complete itself by obvious conventional means (hardwired loop from Neg.>> Pos.).  My explanation would involve electrostatic/capacitive coupling from the Tesla secondary topload >> ground....... but we are NOT seeing any ground strikes (ionization pathways to ground) and the Tesla coil is about 2.5 meters above ground and sitting ontop of a plastic table.
  So I will leave it to everyone to draw their own conclusions........
take care, peace
lost_bro
   

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The battery is acting more like a large capacitor, and you are coupling radiant from the aether right into your LED because of the dielectric plane of the bottom of the battery case being in touch with the ground.



No, really. Haven't you heard that you're not supposed to store a charged LA battery on a concrete floor?


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"The easiest person to fool is yourself" -- Richard Feynman
   
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lost_bro,

have you seen this :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJylD7xpEiU

you might have hit accidently and temporarily earth resonance

Mike
   

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Posts: 2524


Buy me some coffee
TK and TinMan are having a lively tete a tete in the main thread 'Splitting the Negative' at the moment and I wanted to expand around it all, but not thread hijack !
Hence, because of a re-do of an old experiment outside just now, this is a Bench topic.



Take some stuff outside - a car battery, a couple of clip leads and an LED that's on a blocking oscillator.
(1meg resistor and 0.1uF cap to the Base of something like a 2N3904. 100uF input cap, 120+120 coil on a ferrite core). A Joule Thief basically.
Connect the circuit positive to the battery.
Connect the circuit negative straight into the ground, just stick the cliplead into the earth.
The LED will begin to flash.

The batt positive is something like 12V, the Earth ground is something like 0V.
Fine, potential difference, but where is the conventional circuit ?
Is the Splitting the Negative principle based on the same thing ?

Btw, the battery here is the 'good' Alum one from the solar experiments posted recently. It's at 11.09V, so you don't need a fresh car battery for this experiment by any stretch.

The conventional circuit is the capacitive coupling between the battery plates and ground/ground plane.


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
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Thanks all for the intriguing answers.
Those streamers are quite spectacular lost_bro !

TK - I see them stored on planks of wood and it has never made much sense to me. I've certainly seen them sitting on the floor in auto parts stores. Sitting inside a metal box that rests on a car wheel would seem to be the best route, all considered.

TinMan - your answer ties in and I hadn't considered plastic to ground being a capacitive coupling.
However, the LED will also flash if the negative is held in the hand and wearing rubber soled shoes...I should try it while standing on a wooden chair, if only for the neighbours amusement.


---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   

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Be sure to shout out, "Let there be Light!"      :D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JaPvdN75dl4


---------------------------
"The easiest person to fool is yourself" -- Richard Feynman
   
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Good day All:

Figure I'd go ahead and post these two links..... https://www.homepower.com/articles/solar-electricity/equipment-products/ask-experts-batteries-concrete

and  ......http://www.todayifoundout.com/index.php/2017/02/storing-car-battery-concrete-floor-drain/

About 30-40 some years ago, it was the truth that setting a serviceable/refillable LA battery on the ground could discharge it.  At the time the technology used to seal the battery terminal posts was not that great and the fact that almost all the serviceable batteries then leaked/weeped from the terminal post seals and service ports on each cell thereby coating the exterior of the battery with electrolyte film.  Of course this electrolytic film is conductive and would promote self discharge. Basically with the new generation of completely sealed lead acid batteries which do not weep electrolyte, the self-discharge syndrome is eliminated.
Certainly this does not negate the concept of battery case (plastic) acting as a capacitor dielectric for the capacitive coupling-to-ground theory.


take care, peace
lost_bro
« Last Edit: 2017-12-07, 01:58:15 by lost_bro »
   
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TK - LOL, great vid. We may all be within such an experiment, with each microsecond in the lab being 1 billion years.
Have often thought we may be riding along in a spark gap discharge, the whole universe expanding from the tip of a steel rod. One day we're going to be deafened with a worldwide booming voice that even tears the eardrums of the folks on the ISS..... "Derek, dinners ready".


Thanks lost_bro, great links !
The 2 batts here both have removable tops for electrolyte checking, hence was possible to convert to Alum some years back. But that conductive film is well worth remembering about and another good reason to keep them in top top external condition.


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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   
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Mark -

   "The batt positive is something like 12V, the Earth ground is something like 0V.
Fine, potential difference, but where is the conventional circuit ?" 

    It seems to me there must be either:  a circuit back to the (-) pole, OR a charge build-up somewhere -- since I'm persuaded that CHARGE must be conserved.

    Can you see what it takes to turn the JT OFF?  perhaps a sheet of cardboard or plastic UNDER the battery?
    You've got me wondering!
   
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Am quite intrigued about it all too Steve.
TinMan's capacitance pointer could well be it and there does have to be a charge difference to something.
The oscillator also fires up when the negative end is held in the hand and if i'm wearing rubber soled shoes.

Tests had to stop (and those of other projects) when it seems i've torn a decade old troubling rib again. It never did heal properly, X-rays showing a fibrous web thing instead of bone. Moving the batteries around was a dumb idea !
However, it could be advantageous as the batt is now on the wooden floor of the livingroom. If it was to work with the other oscillator lead in a pot of soil I think i'd be completely stuck again for an answer.
But, if the wood of the floor was to act in a similar way to the earth of the ground, it might also run the oscillator.


Oh...to answer a question that Chet raised on the phone.
Alum refers to the pickling substance that's also used in other cooking in the house. Can either buy bags of it or little overpriced tubs at Walmart. It replaces the acid in a car battery.
Empty and flush an old batt several times, fill with water and add baking soda - it might well fizz strongly - rinse out throughly again and check for a pH of 7.
Add approx 8oz quantity of Alum between the cells.
That old batt will now never charge to > 12V, but its amperage will last for far longer than the old batt could ever manage. Alum converted lead/acid batteries can also drop way down to a couple of volts and not experience the same degradation to the plates that happens with traditional acid mixes.

Short vid of an Alum battery test, where the guy starts a tractor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_R34aa-9HQ
« Last Edit: 2017-12-14, 01:00:49 by Slider2732 »


---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   

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Posts: 2524


Buy me some coffee
Thanks all for the intriguing answers.
Those streamers are quite spectacular lost_bro !

TK - I see them stored on planks of wood and it has never made much sense to me. I've certainly seen them sitting on the floor in auto parts stores. Sitting inside a metal box that rests on a car wheel would seem to be the best route, all considered.

TinMan - your answer ties in and I hadn't considered plastic to ground being a capacitive coupling.
However, the LED will also flash if the negative is held in the hand and wearing rubber soled shoes...I should try it while standing on a wooden chair, if only for the neighbours amusement.

Try this one.

Grab one of your spark plug leads on your vehicle engine while it's running,and pull that lead off the spark plug--will you get a boot,even though you have rubber soul shoe's on,and the car has big rubber tires ?. The vehicle is well insulated from ground,you are well insulated from ground,but still,you !will! start doing the jiggy jiggy when you pull that lead off of the spark plug.


---------------------------
Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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Posts: 2524


Buy me some coffee
Am quite intrigued about it all too Steve.
TinMan's capacitance pointer could well be it and there does have to be a charge difference to something.
The oscillator also fires up when the negative end is held in the hand and if i'm wearing rubber soled shoes.

Tests had to stop (and those of other projects) when it seems i've torn a decade old troubling rib again. It never did heal properly, X-rays showing a fibrous web thing instead of bone. Moving the batteries around was a dumb idea !
However, it could be advantageous as the batt is now on the wooden floor of the livingroom. If it was to work with the other oscillator lead in a pot of soil I think i'd be completely stuck again for an answer.
But, if the wood of the floor was to act in a similar way to the earth of the ground, it might also run the oscillator.


Oh...to answer a question that Chet raised on the phone.
Alum refers to the pickling substance that's also used in other cooking in the house. Can either buy bags of it or little overpriced tubs at Walmart. It replaces the acid in a car battery.
Empty and flush an old batt several times, fill with water and add baking soda - it might well fizz strongly - rinse out throughly again and check for a pH of 7.
Add approx 8oz quantity of Alum between the cells.
That old batt will now never charge to > 12V, but its amperage will last for far longer than the old batt could ever manage. Alum converted lead/acid batteries can also drop way down to a couple of volts and not experience the same degradation to the plates that happens with traditional acid mixes.

Short vid of an Alum battery test, where the guy starts a tractor:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_R34aa-9HQ

Try this one Mark.

Grab an old lead acid battery--dead one,or make sure completely discharged.
Drain all the acid out--flush well with fresh water,and then refill with white vinegar.

Once this is done,make sure once again that it is completely discharged.
Once that is done,reverse charge the battery,so as positive becomes negative,and negative becomes positive. O0


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   
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LOL, i'm sure the jiggy jiggy extends a fella's lifetime.
A good electrical shot through the system probably has more health benefits than the other type of jiggy jiggy.



Some may disagree....

via Imgflip Meme Generator


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