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Author Topic: Pierre's OU claim  (Read 12165 times)
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A fellow is showing a beautiful build here

http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/msg517573/#new

Vids here

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_-xw_hL8nQ

the spinning he gets with the iron filings ?  [solid state device

perhaps just an attribute of his driving circuit and switching?

Had mentioned we could get some eyes on this with good test equipment [if it shows more promise

we shall see ?

Chet
« Last Edit: 2018-03-13, 00:56:14 by Chet K »
   

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Seems to like using large capacitor banks (Super Capacitors) and the voltage seems to deplete slowly.
   

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Yes, even to begin evaluating this claim, the first thing we need is data on the capacitor bank.

However... the frequency reported by the cheap frequency meter, 60.6 Hz, is extremely suspicious, less than one percent different from the nominal grid frequency. This could easily be a error in his cheapo frequency counter. Some people have suggested that he display both the grid frequency and the device's output frequency at the same time using the same kind of meter. Of course it is possible that the timing, controlled by the Arduinos, could be deliberately made to produce a 60.6 Hz output frequency even when the device is disconnected from the grid. If that's the case...why not set the timing for exactly 60 Hz then, instead of the 60.6 Hz shown on the cheapo meter?

There are many tests this claimant could do, convincingly, in order to support his "self running" claim. Powering an electric drill motor under no load for a couple of minutes isn't one of them.


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So.. the latest information (unconfirmed) is that the Cap Bank consists of 18 ea. 500F 2.7V units wired in series, for a total of around 27.8 F and 48 volts. That's a fair amount of energy storage, and just driving the rotatory magnetic fields and the Arduino and switching circuitry, could run a good long time, probably many minutes. A drill motor, not drilling anything, doesn't really add much load.

I'd like to see the thing in "self looped mode" running a 1500 watt electric heater.  For longer than 2 seconds......    >:-)


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Right yes, a 400 watt bulb for 5 minuets would be a start, if the bulb is proven to be 400 watts and there is no other trickery going on.
I think you said over at OU look at his other videos, looks like OU is easy which is a big red flag for me.
   
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Did you all miss the ~1200w micrwave he connected while the unit was self looped except the power for the Arduino and relay control?  He heated a cup of water for 1 minute in the second video and the numbers are as follows-

Voltage across supercap bank ~20.5vdc steady

Input transformer current 2.6A

Output current 13.7A

Output voltage 115

So, not accounting for any phase angles, the input power to the transformer is 300w, the output power is 1575w for a difference of 1275w which accounts for the MW power.

Now, assuming the supercaps are 500F each (but could be 100F), the energy of the series caps at 20.5vdc would be 5836J.  The MW energy is 1275J so how long would the MW run with no input to the supercaps?

Regards,
Pm
   

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It would be a lot more interesting if it provided power at some other voltage and frequency than one gets directly from the wall outlets in Ontario (115 VAC at 60.6 Hz).


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"The easiest person to fool is yourself" -- Richard Feynman
   

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It's really too bad that Pierre has to work so hard at his day job that he doesn't have much time left to devote to the most amazing, world-changing, Nobel Prize winning invention of the millennium.


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well
Luc is warming up the bench, and paying attention....
honestly
a busy life ,.....?

It happens....and if he is sharing an open source  discovery like this One ...and working a 60 hour a week job .

a special fellow indeed.

we shall see


   

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It's really too bad that Pierre has to work so hard at his day job that he doesn't have much time left to devote to the most amazing, world-changing, Nobel Prize winning invention of the millennium.

He has this one as well.
Looks much easier to build,and he has the right amount of clip leads for OU.  :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6cJmVdeyYU


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He has this one as well.
Looks much easier to build,and he has the right amount of clip leads for OU.  :D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6cJmVdeyYU

Oh... I remember that one. I didn't realize it was the same fellow. Yes, much easier to build. I wonder why people who are so excited about the big coil thing aren't all putting one of these together, while they wait for more details about the big one. Should only take a couple of hours to build.

Here's even more of his work (loud music though):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QKcyOoz8n4c


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I wonder why Bruce is not interested. it is pure rotating magnetic field  O0
   
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Things are moving along with Pierre's claim

I see Partzman is helping Luc with ......."Parts"   :) [very nice to see]

and Stefan's forum is getting sorted out too... O0

http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/270/
   

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I wonder why Bruce is not interested. it is pure rotating magnetic field  O0

No,it's a stepped rotating magnetic field.

A pure rotating magnetic field would be spinning a speaker magnet while it was standing on it's end.

It is my prediction that this will go no where,as many others have.

The guy has already posted fake OU video's in the past.
I mean,just look at what he has--what is so different that will make this device an OU device ?--it's the same old same old.

I have started looking into the different,and the different is what you will not see here in the realms of the norm.

Keep an eye on TK's EEEE project as well. O0


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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Am an 'optimistic skeptic' about this.
On the one hand, it looks so fake and so silly and so 2011 for the type of parts and wiring setup.
But on the other, he is asking questions of it himself, replying to questions (via Luc) and generally asking for help with improvements. That makes it different.

We need a schematic, the Arduino code and some scope shots. 
1. for validation by EE's
2. to form a basis for improvements
3. in case anything happens, which seems to be de rigeur, as they say in French.
Plus it would be really cool if he could plug in an electric heater on his looped system.

Many thanks again to partzman for helping Luc to get rolling with a replication, through which we all should be able to analyze and improve whatever is going on, or debunk it. Scepticism is healthy and definitely deserved, but this does seem a little different while logic in this game says it isn't.
I agree about the 2 motors and capacitor thing, why don't we just build that ? or as well ? if that is hokum it doesn't bode well for this fancy one.
Has he stated where his inspiration came from ? We could study the same things and move things along without as much guesswork.

Anyway, have ordered a Mega2560. The idea was to work on the code, then send the Arduino to Luc. But, now that Luc will have one as well it's all a heap better, because if stuff needs to be changed when actually tested it's now possible to update Luc's device by posting here. Similar to 3D Magnetics and his 3D hall effect project thread...which itself could be very useful for this.
Am also building a 5 row 7 LED array. The idea is to get the switching correct and see the output on the panel, emulating the one seen in the videos.

 


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I think it is magnetic field moving in 3D like Steven Mark described.  O0
   
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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Very simple but working code on an Arduino Nano.
It moves 18 LED's in the same 1 on, 2 on, 1 off, 3 on, 2 off manner as described by Pierre.
Can't do/test all 5 rows until the Mega2560 gets here, but this looks like the principle.
Timing can be tuned with a pot on Pin A7.


// Sequencing outputs w/variable speed pot
// For Pierre Cotnoir DZ Generator
//
// Pierre quote - the goal being not to turn off the stream
// only move it ex: 1 on, 2 on, 1 off, 3 on, 2 off etc.

// Slider2732 March 2018


int counter = 0;
int switchspeed = 0;


void setup()
{
  pinMode(A7, INPUT); // variable speed pot
}


void loop()
{
  switchspeed = analogRead(A7);
// make range usable with a map
  switchspeed = map(switchspeed, 0, 1023, 3, 350);

 
// 1 on, 2 on, 1 off, 3 on, 2 off
// 5 rows of 7 outputs
// the following routine is nearly all available outputs on Nano, rows of 7
// to be mixed 5 times for the different row outputs, all within 1 loop
// there is also a different start point per row (coil phase changes ?)

  digitalWrite (2, HIGH); // first output on
  digitalWrite (19, LOW); // turn off last output after first output switched on
  for (counter = 3; counter <=19; counter ++)
  {
    digitalWrite (counter, HIGH);
    delay(switchspeed);
    digitalWrite (counter -1,LOW);
    delay(switchspeed);
  }
   

}

« Last Edit: 2018-03-13, 17:43:34 by Slider2732 »


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ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   

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It's good practice to explicitly declare your output pins as OUTPUT in the setup() section. This can be done with a simple for loop in setup(). Also, shouldn't there be a delay between turning 2 ON and turning 19 OFF? That is, all pins should be turned on and off inside the for loop that contains the delays, shouldn't they? And if you put the analogRead(map) statement inside the for loop you can change timing on the fly during the cycle, instead of waiting for the completion of the for loop before the pot adjustment takes effect.


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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
I agree and thanks for the pointers, posting good code is a route that's helped by anyone else looking at it O0
The delay at the end was an oversight.
Was just showing the thinking though of the switching on and off sequencing.
For the good practice, it works without but you are correct.

There's some learning that's happened when doing the mappings just now. Took an hour to play at slow speed and freeze frames while writing down LED positions. The sequence may be able to be run with just 7 outputs and correctly wired LEDs ? It's an offset repeating pattern down the 5 Rows.
5 Rows of 7, but 5 coil sets. If numbered sequentially left to right then left to right again on the next rows, there are times when this is the sort of sequence - 1, 14, 15, 16, 17, 34, 35.
Ordinarily that wouldn't make sense, unless separated and not just divided into 5 Rows. Then, any LED pairing can happen and that may be obvious, but first i'd heard of this was last night.
As such, the relays signals could then be derived directly from the LEDs when they fire and save a bunch of output pins.
Hmm no, scratch that, they would still need to be separated for the actual build, else bunches of relays would power on together.


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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
A build of one of his other devices is taking shape.
The 2 motors came out of a dismembered Epson printer, magnets from old HDD's, flywheel is 6x HDD platters and the wood is also salvaged. It came from part of the smashed up cabinet of my street found Yamaha Clavinova keyboard !
The rubber band wheels are a fast 3D print on 4mm setting for PLA on the Anet A8. The printer broke down with heater bed issues and this was a test. Can supply the .gcode or .STL if any interest...your print will be 10x better if 0.2mm or finer.
Still needs a bearing of some type for the top section, but otherwise is pretty much done.


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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Update - nothing much with the 2 motor thing, though the flywheel bearing isn't the best.
I considered putting 2x 3.7V Li-ion in the large capacitor to fully replicate a lot of these devices  C.C
Pic attached anyway, because it was finished and tested.
 
The Mega 2560 should arrive tomorrow.
So, why not have some fun with the programming before it arrives ?
A way of writing the code would be to continually upload and change and upload and change on an Arduino Nano, but my luck has never been good with writes and rewrites of the EEPROM's. About 250 cycles of large code and then they die off. Also it doesn't have enough outputs of course.
Sure. I could use a visual whatnot emulator doodah, but had another idea. It's a simple enough program in concept, just a timing thing over 5 rows of 7. Use something else instead, something that just runs code on a screen...maybe an old 8-bit computer.
The Apple IIe should be fine to get the LED sequencing method in place, then convert that to C++ for the Mega.



---------------------------
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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Timing diagram, right to left as shown on the LED panel:



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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Got a really strange problem here.
The Arduino Mega 2560 code is ready for testing and peer review, but runs at vastly different speeds on the Mega compared to an Arduino Nano.
It runs at the correct speed on the Nano, but far too slowly on the Mega. Both are 16MHz and the Mega has several better specs than the Nano.
I've written 2 different methods of doing the sequencing...neither is using arrays as we're only switching a few LEDs and it's intended to be easily human readable, should changes be required. 
One method uses the delay function, right down to zero if wished, the other is a state machine.
Both methods are in the attached zip and both run like crap on the Mega !

Here's a quick 1 minute video, to demonstrate the problem.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dlFGXTsAnzM



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I've had problems when trying to use Digital pins 0 and 1 for ordinary uses other than communications. Or at least I did once or twice and stopped using them ever since.

I just dug out my Mega 2560 so I'll try to see if I can duplicate your problem. It may take a while.

Meanwhile, is your Mega an actual Arduino manufacture, or is it a Chinese unbranded clone? Is yours the "R3" version? Mine is an OSEPP brand, years old, not "R3".


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OK, I've used the sketch with the delay, not the state machine, and it seems to be running at full speed on my Mega. I didn't install all the LEDs, I just added another output pin and put an LED in that, to be flashed at the end of the loop(). I also tested whether the Pin1 (TX) use was causing a problem-- doesn't appear to be, runs fine using it.

Code: [Select]
// Sequencing outputs w/variable speed pot
// For original Pierre Cotnoir DZ Generator
//
// To be amended to 30 pole for GotoLuc replication
// To Do: What do the top 2 LED's do, next to the Mega2560 ?

// TX LED will flash to pot rate, because is also Pin 1

// Pierre quote - the goal being not to turn off the stream
// only move it ex: 1 on, 2 on, 1 off, 3 on, 2 off etc.

// Slider2732 March 2018

/*
 Example, Position 9
 
   1  2  3  4 |5  6  7  8  9  10 11
A             |            *
B     *       |
C             |      *
D             |               *
E        *    |


               7  6  5  4  3  2  1
               14 13 12 11 10 9  8
               21 20 19 18 17 16 15
               28 27 26 25 24 23 22
               35 34 33 32 31 30 29
               
*/



int counter = 0;
int switchspeed = 0;


void setup()
{
  pinMode(A7, INPUT); // variable speed pot
 
  for (counter = 1; counter <=40; counter ++)
  {
  pinMode(counter, OUTPUT);
  }
  pinMode(51, OUTPUT); // inserted by TK for debugging
}


void loop()
{
  switchspeed = analogRead(A7);
// make range usable with a map
  switchspeed = map(switchspeed, 0, 1023, 0, 100);
 

//Position 11
digitalWrite (1, HIGH);  // A
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // B
digitalWrite (17, HIGH); // C
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // D
digitalWrite (35, HIGH); // E
delay(switchspeed);
// Switch off position 1
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // A
digitalWrite (14, LOW);  // B
digitalWrite (16, LOW);  // C
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // D
digitalWrite (34, LOW);  // E

//Position 10
digitalWrite (2, HIGH);  // A
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // B
digitalWrite (18, HIGH); // C
digitalWrite (22, HIGH); // D
digitalWrite (0, HIGH);  // E
delay(switchspeed);
// Switch off position 11
digitalWrite (1, LOW);   // A
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // B
digitalWrite (17, LOW);  // C
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // D
digitalWrite (35, LOW);  // E

//Position 9
digitalWrite (3, HIGH);  // A
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // B
digitalWrite (19, HIGH); // C
digitalWrite (23, HIGH); // D
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // E
delay(switchspeed);
// Switch off position 10
digitalWrite (2, LOW);   // A
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // B
digitalWrite (18, LOW);  // C
digitalWrite (22, LOW);  // D
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // E

//Position 8
digitalWrite (4, HIGH);  // A
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // B
digitalWrite (20, HIGH); // C
digitalWrite (24, HIGH); // D
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // E
delay(switchspeed);
// Switch off position 9
digitalWrite (3, LOW);   // A
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // B
digitalWrite (19, LOW);  // C
digitalWrite (23, LOW);  // D
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // E

//Position 7
digitalWrite (5, HIGH);  // A
digitalWrite (8, HIGH);  // B
digitalWrite (21, HIGH); // C
digitalWrite (25, HIGH); // D
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // E
delay(switchspeed);
//Switch off position 8
digitalWrite (4, LOW);   // A
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // B
digitalWrite (20, LOW);  // C
digitalWrite (24, LOW);  // D
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // E

//Position 6
digitalWrite (6, HIGH);  // A
digitalWrite (9, HIGH);  // B
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // C
digitalWrite (26, HIGH); // D
digitalWrite (29, HIGH); // E
delay(switchspeed);
// Switch off position 7
digitalWrite (5, LOW);   // A
digitalWrite (8, LOW);   // B
digitalWrite (21, LOW);  // C
digitalWrite (25, LOW);  // D
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // E

//Position 5
digitalWrite (7, HIGH);  // A
digitalWrite (10, HIGH); // B
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // C
digitalWrite (27, HIGH); // D
digitalWrite (30, HIGH); // E
delay(switchspeed);
// Switch off position 6
digitalWrite (6, LOW);   // A
digitalWrite (9, LOW);   // B
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // C
digitalWrite (26, LOW);  // D
digitalWrite (29, LOW);  // E

//Position 4
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // A
digitalWrite (11, HIGH); // B
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // C
digitalWrite (28, HIGH); // D
digitalWrite (31, HIGH); // E
delay(switchspeed);
// Switch off position 5
digitalWrite (7, LOW);   // A
digitalWrite (10, LOW);  // B
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // C
digitalWrite (27, LOW);  // D
digitalWrite (30, LOW);  // E

//Position 3
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // A
digitalWrite (12, HIGH); // B
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // C
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // D
digitalWrite (32, HIGH); // E
delay(switchspeed);
// Switch off position 4
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // A
digitalWrite (11, LOW);  // B
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // C
digitalWrite (28, LOW);  // D
digitalWrite (31, LOW);  // E

//Position 2
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // A
digitalWrite (13, HIGH); // B
digitalWrite (15, HIGH); // C
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // D
digitalWrite (33, HIGH); // E
delay(switchspeed);
// Switch off position 3
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // A
digitalWrite (12, LOW);  // B
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // C
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // D
digitalWrite (32, LOW);  // E

// Position 1
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // A
digitalWrite (14, HIGH); // B
digitalWrite (16, HIGH); // C
digitalWrite (40, HIGH); // D
digitalWrite (34, HIGH); // E
delay(switchspeed);
// Switch off position 2
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // A
digitalWrite (13, LOW);  // B
digitalWrite (15, LOW);  // C
digitalWrite (40, LOW);  // D
digitalWrite (33, LOW);  // E

//
// inserted by TK for debugging
//
digitalWrite (51, HIGH);
delay(5);
digitalWrite (51, LOW);
//

}

So I'm thinking either you got a bogus Mega, or there is something wrong with your external circuit or the connections of the speed pot, maybe.


---------------------------
"The easiest person to fool is yourself" -- Richard Feynman
   
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