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Author Topic: Pierre's OU claim  (Read 3930 times)
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Posts: 1922


Buy me some coffee
I am sure this comes as no surprize  C.C

From Pierre

it's only to rotate the magnetic field you will not get much voltage with that there is something else that I keep secret it's like an engine that has no piston it does not start it's the same thing for the generator dz the important thing is not what we see but rather what we do not see I have seen too many people who want to take the merit in my place so my contribution will stop here now it will make you discover the rest by yourself and I can tell you that it is not won it took me nearly 2 years to find the solution rotation is only one aspect of the dz is really more complicated than that at least people will be able to learn to rotate a magnetic field but it will stop they will not get the result I had, I still have problems to settle but I think everything solve problems with the second prototype that is in manufacture I have for several months I need all over again from the beginning new circuit new coil more powerful and a brand new programming that looks pretty complicated to sequence then I wish you the best of luck for the sequel and beware of those who tries to keep the information to have it all want the information for them and does not reveal anything else I wonder why humm, when I have applied for a patent I can show you the rest of the generator dz version 2 but not before thank you.
   
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Who are the people trying to take this ?

we need to fix this open source problem [theft for profit]

regardless the outcome of this Claim.

a clause is supposedly in the minutes of patent law about loss of patent rights when something is used commercially?? [ebay sale??]
is that a sale for profit ?
or use in a commercial venue ??

top on this weeks "to do" list

   
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Who are the people trying to take this ?

we need to fix this open source problem [theft for profit]

regardless the outcome of this Claim.

a clause is supposedly in the minutes of patent law about loss of patent rights when something is used commercially?? [ebay sale??]
is that a sale for profit ?
or use in a commercial venue ??

top on this weeks "to do" list

Chet,

Your question of "who" is valid and my response would be that Pierre or anyone else with IP to disclose publicly would not have a clue as to persons intending to steal because they would be stealth about it.  So, either Pierre has suddenly become paranoid or the device really never worked from the beginning and he's throwing out the "I've kept the secret" to free himself from all the questions that will arise when Luc and others find this out.

However, to be fair to Pierre and assuming for another moment that the device works, I would propose a scenario for the coil switching that would involve the out-of-alignment coils to be opposed switching or bucking in order to place an H field on the fixed rotor which would then be recirculated to the power supply upon collapse.  The in-alignment coils would be switched in a normal aiding mode.  This would require a more complex switching scheme than has be revealed.

Regards,
Pm
   
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Posts: 1265
... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
 :o
 :-[

Ah crap. Oh well, maybe with some clever linking of the Benitez method by the community brains it can be carried forward. But, it kinda seems odd now, as though getting something working is somehow going against the inventor ? But again, what invention ? noone knows that it genuinely works as shown.
I would have thought that reproducing an effect and proving it out would be a high priority for anyone showing something. That person is always going to be acknowledged as doing the thing first, especially with what it seems to be.

Hmmm. Well i've got some kind of build going now.
Have decided to learn a bit about this rotating field thing anyway and that may be of use around you guys later on who do this stuff regularly lol.
Have converted the Pierre code to 16 positions (am still lost about what to do with coil 8's other terminal though). It runs on the far less expensive STM32F103C, commonly known as the Blue Pill. Another version of these is called the Red Pill. They're about $1.85 and their only downside is the rather interesting bucket load of spam mail if you search for Blue Pill online !
 C.C

Tentative idea is MOSFET switching at low power, likely 5V, with diodes all over the place.
Here's the code and attached is a pic of the STM32 running.

/*
  Pierre's Original Sketch
 
  Modded by Tinselkoala 24 Mar 2018 for 30-slot stator
  Modded by Slider2732 25 Mar 2018 for 16-slot stator - provisional
  For STM32F103C microcontroller
  Speed control pot: connect wiper to PA0, legs of pot to +5v and GND
*/

int stepspeed = 0, rawspeed = 0;
int pin = 1;


void setup()
{
  // initialize all needed digital pins as OUTPUT
 
  for (pin = 0; pin <= 10; pin ++)
    { pinMode(pin, OUTPUT); }
  pinMode(PB1,INPUT);
  pinMode(PB10, OUTPUT); //
  pinMode(PB11, OUTPUT); //
  pinMode(PB5, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(PB8, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(PB9, OUTPUT);
}


void loop() {
 
  rawspeed = analogRead(PA0); // read speedpot on Analog Pin PA0
  stepspeed = map(rawspeed,0,1023,1,100);  //transforme rawspeed en une valeur de 0 à 100 (millisecondes)
 
  // digitalWrite HIGH turns on an LED, digitalWrite LOW turns it off
  // LED Pins, as seen by eye:
  // 5    4    3    2     1
  // 10   9    8    7     6
  // PB9  PB8  PB5  PB11  PB10
  // Coil 8, would be Pin16 - spare wire always to Gnd (for initial tests)
  digitalWrite(1,HIGH), digitalWrite(8,HIGH), digitalWrite(PB9,HIGH);   
  delay(stepspeed);             
  digitalWrite(5,LOW),  digitalWrite(7,LOW),  digitalWrite(PB8,LOW); 
  delay(stepspeed); 
  digitalWrite(2,HIGH), digitalWrite(9,HIGH), digitalWrite(PB10,HIGH);
  delay(stepspeed);             
  digitalWrite(1,LOW),  digitalWrite(8,LOW),  digitalWrite(PB9,LOW); 
  delay(stepspeed);           
  digitalWrite(3,HIGH), digitalWrite(10,HIGH), digitalWrite(PB11,HIGH);
  delay(stepspeed);           
  digitalWrite(2,LOW),  digitalWrite(9,LOW),  digitalWrite(PB10 ,LOW); 
  delay(stepspeed);           
  digitalWrite(4,HIGH), digitalWrite(6,HIGH), digitalWrite(PB5,HIGH);
  delay(stepspeed);           
  digitalWrite(3,LOW),  digitalWrite(10,LOW),  digitalWrite(PB11,LOW);   
  delay(stepspeed);             
  digitalWrite(5,HIGH), digitalWrite(7,HIGH), digitalWrite(PB8,HIGH);
  delay(stepspeed);           
  digitalWrite(4,LOW),  digitalWrite(6,LOW),  digitalWrite(PB5,LOW); 
  delay(stepspeed);                         
}
 


---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   
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Posts: 1265
... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
On Page 25, Reply #361 of the other boards thread, Alex81 draws attention to Ingo Köth and his universal motor project. A German chap and the video is in German.
Regardless of any language barrier for many, it all looks highly familiar, including the use of a MEGA2560 !
16 slot motor, N and P MOSFET's

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sOvtCt1MkhY


Perhaps this type of lead for direction will now become important.


---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   
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*****

Posts: 1922


Buy me some coffee
:o
 :-[

Ah crap. Oh well, maybe with some clever linking of the Benitez method by the community brains it can be carried forward. But, it kinda seems odd now, as though getting something working is somehow going against the inventor ? But again, what invention ? noone knows that it genuinely works as shown.
I would have thought that reproducing an effect and proving it out would be a high priority for anyone showing something. That person is always going to be acknowledged as doing the thing first, especially with what it seems to be.

Hmmm. Well i've got some kind of build going now.
Have decided to learn a bit about this rotating field thing anyway and that may be of use around you guys later on who do this stuff regularly lol.
Have converted the Pierre code to 16 positions (am still lost about what to do with coil 8's other terminal though). It runs on the far less expensive STM32F103C, commonly known as the Blue Pill. Another version of these is called the Red Pill. They're about $1.85 and their only downside is the rather interesting bucket load of spam mail if you search for Blue Pill online !
 C.C

Tentative idea is MOSFET switching at low power, likely 5V, with diodes all over the place.
Here's the code and attached is a pic of the STM32 running.

/*
  Pierre's Original Sketch
 
  Modded by Tinselkoala 24 Mar 2018 for 30-slot stator
  Modded by Slider2732 25 Mar 2018 for 16-slot stator - provisional
  For STM32F103C microcontroller
  Speed control pot: connect wiper to PA0, legs of pot to +5v and GND
*/

int stepspeed = 0, rawspeed = 0;
int pin = 1;


void setup()
{
  // initialize all needed digital pins as OUTPUT
 
  for (pin = 0; pin <= 10; pin ++)
    { pinMode(pin, OUTPUT); }
  pinMode(PB1,INPUT);
  pinMode(PB10, OUTPUT); //
  pinMode(PB11, OUTPUT); //
  pinMode(PB5, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(PB8, OUTPUT);
  pinMode(PB9, OUTPUT);
}


void loop() {
 
  rawspeed = analogRead(PA0); // read speedpot on Analog Pin PA0
  stepspeed = map(rawspeed,0,1023,1,100);  //transforme rawspeed en une valeur de 0 à 100 (millisecondes)
 
  // digitalWrite HIGH turns on an LED, digitalWrite LOW turns it off
  // LED Pins, as seen by eye:
  // 5    4    3    2     1
  // 10   9    8    7     6
  // PB9  PB8  PB5  PB11  PB10
  // Coil 8, would be Pin16 - spare wire always to Gnd (for initial tests)
  digitalWrite(1,HIGH), digitalWrite(8,HIGH), digitalWrite(PB9,HIGH);   
  delay(stepspeed);             
  digitalWrite(5,LOW),  digitalWrite(7,LOW),  digitalWrite(PB8,LOW); 
  delay(stepspeed); 
  digitalWrite(2,HIGH), digitalWrite(9,HIGH), digitalWrite(PB10,HIGH);
  delay(stepspeed);             
  digitalWrite(1,LOW),  digitalWrite(8,LOW),  digitalWrite(PB9,LOW); 
  delay(stepspeed);           
  digitalWrite(3,HIGH), digitalWrite(10,HIGH), digitalWrite(PB11,HIGH);
  delay(stepspeed);           
  digitalWrite(2,LOW),  digitalWrite(9,LOW),  digitalWrite(PB10 ,LOW); 
  delay(stepspeed);           
  digitalWrite(4,HIGH), digitalWrite(6,HIGH), digitalWrite(PB5,HIGH);
  delay(stepspeed);           
  digitalWrite(3,LOW),  digitalWrite(10,LOW),  digitalWrite(PB11,LOW);   
  delay(stepspeed);             
  digitalWrite(5,HIGH), digitalWrite(7,HIGH), digitalWrite(PB8,HIGH);
  delay(stepspeed);           
  digitalWrite(4,LOW),  digitalWrite(6,LOW),  digitalWrite(PB5,LOW); 
  delay(stepspeed);                         
}

Hey slider
Next time you go camping,throw a couple of those blue pill's in your tent.
Come back in 10 minute's,and it should have erected itself  ;D
   
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Posts: 409
Somewhere in the original thread at OU someone posted a paper by GOGO55 in Russian that referenced a patent(?) also in Russian that appears to be similar to Pierre's device.  Google translated pdfs are attached below.

Regards,
Pm
   
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Posts: 1265
... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
 O0 TinMan, that's exactly the erm issue.
Am half expecting a stripped down version of the ESP32 to be released, called Naked Lady. How about the 'Ron Jeremy' version of the ESP8266 or the 'Big boobs' Raspberry Pi !

Ah cool partzman, presumably if anything does derive from all this we can now officially be guilty of some Russian collusion.   
Edit - looking at the NG, am I right in thinking that the diode for each coil connects to the next in the firing series ? Was wondering about that and it makes sense as some type of amplifier.


Update - SMD FET's ordered.
20x N channel and 20x P channel. Have used them before to repair RC quadcopters.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/20PCS-AO3404-A49T-5-8A-30V-SOT23-N-Channel-MOSFET-SMD-transistor-NEW-/232077638730?hash=item3608e7bc4a

https://www.ebay.com/itm/20PCS-AO3401-A19T-4-2A-30V-SOT23-P-Channel-MOSFET-SMD-Transistor-BH-/183001699892
$0.77, $0.16 shipping, again for 20 of them

Why SMD, cos they work and they are really cheap !
« Last Edit: 2018-03-27, 00:58:51 by Slider2732 »


---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   
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Posts: 327
Hi guys :)

I was following Piere's videos as well. Since I am also involved in research related to magnetic flux path switching I am interested in how it worked.
To me the secret he mentioned may be in energy recovery circuit. If you manage to recover most of energy in BEMF/inter-winding induction, the rest can be covered by 90 degrees induction from center core. Also for magnetic field rotation from the program Pierre shared it looks like 1-2,1-2,1-2 coils activation in steps before moving around circle. I also shared the rest of my thoughs on OU forum http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/msg519019/#msg519019 and http://overunity.com/17609/170-watts-in-1600-watts-out-looped-very-impressive-build-and-video/msg519057/#msg519057 and hopefully that is useful.

P.S> Benitez patent is also very important clue here...

Cheers!
   
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Posts: 2716
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m16qvt9-2Kk&feature=youtu.be

Luc's build is almost ready for experiments

quite  a beauty indeed.
unless I'm mistaken, it seems it will actually show the flow...
   
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Posts: 1265
... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
No kidding, that is a wonderful build.
That's my thinking too, that we should see exactly what is doing what and where as it runs.

Speaking of such flows, i've been doing Hall Effect experiments and just ordered 10x 3341's for $0.78 shipped from China, before Trump taxes the crap out of such bargains  ^-^
The thinking being that we may be able to further some of the rotating field logic in other solid state motors. Instead of a magnet passing flipping the sensor, a powered coil would trigger it. The coil logic would be seen and confirmed, with LED's on the sensor outputs.
I happened upon this page: http://elecnote.blogspot.com/2014/12/sensored-cd-rom-bldc-motor-hall-effect.html
A quick scroll to the bottom of the page has a video...it's short and just shows what happens with the Hall sensors on a regular CD-Rom drive. The sequence is the same as the Pierre one. As in, the next LED lights before the last one goes off... and that's how they work by design !


---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   
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Posts: 1265
... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
So what do you fellas take away from Luc's translation of Pierre's latest message ?

Quote
Good evening everyone ,
I've been watching the progress you're doing here on Overunity Forum and naturally I've noticed Luc's excellent work and his superb device which he's managed to rotate the magnetic field. He seems to be on the right track but there is something crucial that is missing which I see none of you have thought of yet since you are too concentrated on a replication of my prototype, the coils, 3 pole, 6 pole the number of transistor etc
I can see that no one has ever ask the real question of how to make current and what is happening by breaking down the cycle of a generator. If you really understand this then you will be able to understand the dz generator principle and you will not need to try to copy the dz generator which is far from being perfect. There are many improvements to be made from the first version.
-First of all, what happens when we approach a magnet towards a coil?  there is a variation of the magnetic field and the closer we get to the collecting coil there is an opposing field that is created, so a variation and intensity of this magnet is of great importance.
So VARIATION AND INTENSITY are the words to remember
-Secondly, when the speed of displacement of this magnetic field is moving faster, the larger this fluctuation, except when it is an electromagnet coil. It should be noted that the coil has a CHARGE TIME and if the magnetic field moves too fast before the coil is fully charged you will have a loss at this point and also a loss on the coils return.
-Third, the MOVEMENT of this magnetic field that you started to experience, so you're starting to understand.
-And finally, there is the COIL RETURNS, if you channel then at the right place and at the right time you will have a very powerful combination, not only will it destroy mosfet's but it turns out to be a very interesting partner to use.
Of course there are losses in the coils and the resistance etc, but if we compare the dz generator with a combustion engine generator which has friction and heat losses and an electromagnet rotor that we need to magnetize, we would be close to 70% or more losses which does not compare to the dz generator which I eliminated the biggest loss, which is, the combustion engine.
In my first prototype I made some design errors. I think that crossing fields in the coils can affect the performance, that's why I change my method in my second prototype. Surely there are several ways to design a dz generator. I've just provided you with all the ingredients to make such a device. Just make your own recipe with the 4 point that I gave you and it's very likely that you will achieve overunity. You just have to put the right amount in the right place. I hope you take note of this message because it is the secret of the dz generator. It's the 4 points mentioned above. If one of these points is not in your build, you will never have a surplus of energy. I hope my comments are useful to your build. I will not translate this message, I'll let someone else do the translation. Apparently, Google translation is not an ideal translation.
Good evening.
Pierre Cotnoir(Translation by gotoluc)



Especially the viewpoints of guys who have many many years of motor rewinds, measurements.
Does it read right ? like a bunch of essential tricks and tips that caused a nod of knowing..or is it a bit vague still ?
I think what we're looking at is the way to defeat Lenz, with electromagnets, that are timed to switch on and off with both brute force and subtlety at specific timed event points.
There's no reason why a force should pull a rotor back if that energy can be electrically redirected, that's my take on it.


---------------------------
ʎɐqǝ ɯoɹɟ pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ɐ ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu
   
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Posts: 2716
well
I feel the best path forward would be if Pierre could allow Luc to make a visit.

hopefully this will be entertained "again"at some point.

*
again the link to the thread where Pierre is now assisting replicators as member Pedro
http://overunity.com/17653/pierres-170w-in-1600w-out-looped-very-impressive-build-continued-moderated/msg520095/#new

« Last Edit: 2018-04-19, 14:08:27 by Chet K »
   
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Posts: 1922


Buy me some coffee
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m16qvt9-2Kk&feature=youtu.be

Luc's build is almost ready for experiments

quite  a beauty indeed.
unless I'm mistaken, it seems it will actually show the flow...

Wish i had that much spare time on my hands.
   
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Posts: 327
Hi guys :)

After last Pierrre winding explanation video it is clear Luc have replication gone wrong and need rewind his stator.
No surprise there is almost no current in his pickup coil as the EMF cancelation is all over place there. The program alterations also would not solve root cause.
My posts was deleted in OU forum by Luc but that does not change truth, heh..

Also I am rarely finding stators which allow winding to the center and outside, is there an specific keyword they could pop in search?
Like https://www.easa.com/sites/files/winding_failures/goodfull.jpg but not https://www.dhresource.com/0x0s/f2-albu-g2-M01-E7-69-rBVaGlVmZ8OAft6eAAF56xqbpvo550.jpg/motor-stator-winding-machine-wire-coiling.jpg
I would like to avoid 3D printing winding former and using transformer steel toroids to make one. Need something like 20cm in diameter so I could buy one already made then make own setup.

Cheers!
   
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Posts: 2716
I did ask Luc to explain this comment

he said Pierre was agreeing that it was correct ,and in French in the video he says so ??
Snip
Quote from: pedro1 on April 17, 2018, 04:48:40 AM

    this one works!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSnjIoQ2rh8


Thanks Pierre for taking the time to make a video of exactly how your stator coil winding were done.
Regards
Luc

Fr. Merci à Pierre d'avoir pris le temps de faire une vidéo de la façon exacte dont le bobinage de votre stator a été réalisé.
Cordialement
Luc
end snip
however I could be wrong
   
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Posts: 409
I feel I must comment.  For me personally, locking the general discussion thread on the OU forum was a slap in the face.  If I am not allowed to openly discuss research ideas publicly, then I will do it in private!

IMO, much work is being done without complete consideration.  For one example, the builders need to analyze the currents drawn from the mains in Pierre's first video both prior to inserting the rotor and after and compare to their own results.  Calculate your total coil dc resistances with your present circuitry and try to justify with Pierre's voltage and current measurements without the rotor inserted.

Regards,
Pm   
   
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Posts: 2716
Yes
Luc has been a bit overwhelmed with all of this [the work load]
I believe today he will open a discussion topic

it does appear quite rude ,but in Luc's defense he is doing too much
by himself,it takes him hours to translate and write sometimes, apparently the French Canadian dialect [Luc's native language] is even different then Domestic French ??
and I believe even Spoken there are differences which can be Huge for interpreting the true meaning of a technical topic.


and Pierre has left the forum over there one prior time due to earlier disruptions

not an easy task .

here is the link where Pierre validated Lucs windings [for T1000]

http://overunity.com/17653/pierres-170w-in-1600w-out-looped-very-impressive-build-continued-moderated/msg520019/#msg520019
« Last Edit: 2018-04-20, 16:10:25 by Chet K »
   
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Posts: 327
Thanks Chet :)

I actually started ordering parts - arduino controller MEGA 2560 R3, bunch of optocouplers for 3.3->12V change to mosfet drivers, jumper wires, 2x 6 500F cap banks with protection circuit, etc.
All I need at the moment is to figure out how and where I can get correct stator or multiple iron steel cores with coil formers.
Then I can start coils assembly. Hopefully electronics/programming part will be done by then as I am going to try simulate 3 phase from DC input (Figurera way) with 6+6 coil sets (12 wires) going around ring in series of groups,

If you could help me find where I can make windings without too much effort of getting machining done (I do not have access to machining tools at home)  this would be great.

Cheers!
   
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