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Author Topic: Generating System  (Read 18146 times)

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Could this be a Swan Song?  With some very interesting inter-action.

The Recuperative Powers of the Lead Acid Battery have fooled many.

And of course, the batteries must be BIG batteries.

Oh well, it was not entirely an exercise in futility.  Some have learned
a great deal about the realities of Free Energy.

I guess I'll get in that line to have my nose rubbed too.


---------------------------
"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   
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Ha!, He or she has never had burnt fingers.
Now why didn't I sign up to that forum? Must be the nose rubbing lol.
   

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Buy me some coffee
Could this be a Swan Song?  With some very interesting inter-action.

The Recuperative Powers of the Lead Acid Battery have fooled many.

And of course, the batteries must be BIG batteries.

Oh well, it was not entirely an exercise in futility.  Some have learned
a great deal about the realities of Free Energy.

I guess I'll get in that line to have my nose rubbed too.

And there is the big exit we all knew was coming.

Quote from Turion-->Never run a load unless it is between two potentials.

 ???  ???  ???
Can you run a load that is not between two potentials that are different in value  :D

Well that sums it all up,and shows the true nature and knowledge base of Dave and Matt.
Fakes from the start, liars at the end,and braindead inbetween.


Brad


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And there is the big exit we all knew was coming.

Quote from Turion-->Never run a load unless it is between two potentials.

 ???  ???  ???
Can you run a load that is not between two potentials that are different in value  :D

What is the context? I suspect that he might mean that one should have a load connected to a system which is generating. (A bit like, in Hi-Fi systems, the importance of having a speaker connected to an amplifier before you switch it on). He's no fool.
   

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Quote from: Paul-R
He's no fool.

With reference to the handle "Turion?"

I suppose that possibility is subject to debate.

However, there is a profound lack of technical knowledge
and ability to perform experiments safely, coupled with other
unsavory behavioral tactics.

Truth has a unique talent for squeezing its way out of even
the most tightly bound boxes.

The discussion now surges forward into LaLa Land.

The last refuge of a scoundrel.

What 'they' have shown is that a Regenerative Loop
with Pulsed Loop Current applied to the miraculous
Lead-Acid Battery is capable of short term apparent
gains in power.  What is lacking is an in-depth analysis
of where the anomalous power originates from.

But then TinMan has already provided that analysis.

Are the 'inventors' of the circuit able to demonstrate
any apparent power gains without the Lead-Acid
Batteries?  There is a reason of course that BIG
Batteries are a necessity.  Critical Thinking Mandatory.

So the illusion goes on...


---------------------------
"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   

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Turion offers an explanation which is worth a read.

It's very clear that he is in the beginning stage of a
journey of learning which will lead to a more accurate
comprehension of that which he seeks.  It is so easy
to deceive ourselves about what we 'see' while in that
early state of comprehension.

I sincerely hope that he continues with his efforts to
learn and comprehend.

Those who descend upon his explanation in an effort
to reveal confusion and to lend clarity need not be
necessarily thought of as vultures.  But of course it
can be a painful process to admit error.


---------------------------
"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   

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Buy me some coffee
Turion offers an explanation which is worth a read.

It's very clear that he is in the beginning stage of a
journey of learning which will lead to a more accurate
comprehension of that which he seeks.  It is so easy
to deceive ourselves about what we 'see' while in that
early state of comprehension.

I sincerely hope that he continues with his efforts to
learn and comprehend.

Those who descend upon his explanation in an effort
to reveal confusion and to lend clarity need not be
necessarily thought of as vultures.  But of course it
can be a painful process to admit error.

Well,it is clear that he)Turion) dose not understand batteries,and chemical energy.
Quote: The closer it comes to equalizing, the lower the potential difference between the two sides and the lower the reading on your meter. The energy is still THERE. It is now just equalized so there is NO current flow and you can’t USE it to do any work.

No,the energy is not still there at all.
Energy was dissipated by the motor,in the form of mechanical and heat energy.
Turion seems to think that all the energy that flows into the motor,passes through the motor,and back into the negative side of the battery.

In fact,most people believe this to be the case.
We place an amp meter between the battery and motor on the positive side,and a volt meter across the motor,and we measure the P/in to the motor. We then place the amp meter between the motor and battery on the negative side,and a volt meter across the motor,and we see that same amount of power flowing from the motor,into the negative side of the battery. The assumption is that the energy flowing out of the positive side of the battery,is the same amount flowing into the negative side of the battery.
This being the case,what energy is heating the motor?--what energy give the motor the ability to perform mechanical work?

When we charge a cap,and discharge that cap by placing a resistor across it,is the same amount of energy still stored in the cap to that of what we started with?.
If you think the answer is yes,then where did the energy come from that was dissipated by the resistor in the form of heat?.

Quote: so when the system is set up with the CORRECT motor and the CORRECT batteries and LARGE wires, and you rotate the batteries properly, allowing a battery to rest after charge and rest after discharge, you can get far more out of the system than you "believed" was contained in the three batteries.

Just a total lack of understanding in amp hour ratings of batteries,and what those ratings mean.
He (Turion) thinks that because a battery has say a 50 amp hour rating on it,it will only deliver a total of 50 amp hours.
This is just wrong,as a battery can deliver far more than it's rated capacity--if you dont mind killing your battery in a hurry,by discharging it below it's recommended discharge value--which they(Matt and Dave) do quite often.

This is nothing more than classic B-D-N- syndrome.


Brad


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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As always, you're right again TinMan!

His closing sentence pretty much says it all.

He's just a few steps into what will be a long
journey to truly acquire the knowledge he believes
he already has.  Embryonic Ignorance it is...

We who have experience know that a so-called 'dead'
lead-acid battery which has been freshly discharged
will in several minutes 'recover' with the ability to
provide more energy.  The 'magic' is fully within the
Lead-Acid Battery
which really is a miraculous device.


---------------------------
"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   

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As always, you're right again TinMan!

His closing sentence pretty much says it all.

He's just a few steps into what will be a long
journey to truly acquire the knowledge he believes
he already has.  Embryonic Ignorance it is...

We who have experience know that a so-called 'dead'
lead-acid battery which has been freshly discharged
will in several minutes 'recover' with the ability to
provide more energy.  The 'magic' is fully within the
Lead-Acid Battery
which really is a miraculous device.

It is sad that so many do not yet understand what they are actually looking at when it comes to electrical energy production/generation.

As i have stated many times before,magnetism is a bi-product of current flow,and is not needed to produce an electrical current. In fact,as i have also stated,if magnetism could be removed from the likes of generators,then no back torque would be produced by said generator--yes,we would have self running machines if we could remove the magnetism side effect.

We really are looking at this all wrong.


Brad


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Here is an update from Turion on his present state and circumstances as per his claimed ou generator is concerned:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20486-splitting-positive-27.html#post314359   

Gyula
   

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Buy me some coffee
Here is an update from Turion on his present state and circumstances as per his claimed ou generator is concerned:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20486-splitting-positive-27.html#post314359   

Gyula

Turion is-oh so lost.

How do I know this to be a FACT. First, because I have built coils that utilize the delayed lenz reaction,

No such thing as !delayed! lenz reaction.

meaning they do not develop the field that repels the approaching rotor magnet until it has ALREADY reached top dead center, at which point the repelling field is created, pushing the rotor magnet away in the direction it is traveling, thus assisting or acting as a MOTIVE force. Lenz ASSISTED.

No,no,and no.


When an opposition magnet is ALSO added, neutralizing the attraction of the rotor magnet to the iron core, ADDITIONAL rpms are demonstrated, as well as reduction in amp draw of the motor. NOW you CAN exceed the original rpm of the motor with no coil in place for the same or lower amp draw, especially when you have MULTIPLE COILS. WHY????? Because the Lenz ASSIST is a "motive force" that speeds up the rotor. But it can only speed it up SO MUCH, so you need BOTH the Lenz assist AND the magnetic neutralization to exceed the speed of rotation achieved with the motor when no coils are in place.

Not a chance.
If this was the case,then there would be no need for a prime mover,as the generator would have to have a greater motoring action than a generating drag.

So now you have a motor that is turning faster than it is supposed to for the input you are giving it, turning a generator that is putting out power without dragging down the motor, and you can recover MUCH of the power used to run the motor in the first place if you are using the proper circuit, which we have spent a LOT of time showing over the last ten years.

We have been hearing this ! which we have spent a LOT of time showing over the last ten years!,but has anyone actually seen it being shown?.
Is the 3 months up yet?
Where is this self running generator we have been promised ?

You can run these experiment with and without Lenz assisted coils and with and without opposition magnets. It is NOT rocket science

No,rocket science is simple.
It is just the ejection of mass at velocity.

After I get my new shop set up, which will come after my old shop gets moved over from the old house, which will come after I build a fence around the dog yard at the new house, landscape the back yard at the old house, remodel two bathrooms at the old house, tear out all the carpet and 70's paneling at the old house, patch and paint all the walls, and move my old Landcruiser to the new place.....which can't be done until I drywall the inside of the shed at the new house, build shelves, and move all the parts of the land cruiser to the new house.

Sounds like it's going to be 3 years,not 3 months as Turion first promised.

By the way, stuff DIDN'T get done around my old house because I was too busy working on THIS crap,

This crap?.
So plastering walls is far more important than putting together a machine that breaks all the laws of physics,and delivers clean,free,limitless power  C.C C.C C.C

There is no doubt that Dave and Matt have nothing --well,maybe some delusions  :D

Just going to put it down as another waste of money.

On a good note,i have been in contact with a certain some one here in Oz,and will soon be taking delivery of an old !so called! FE machine.
Anyone know this one? ;)


Brad


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Buy me some coffee
Here is an update from Turion on his present state and circumstances as per his claimed ou generator is concerned:

http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/20486-splitting-positive-27.html#post314359   

Gyula

Magnetic drag is not cogging. Show me a reputable source which says it is.
Could someone please explain the difference ?


Magnetic drag = eddy current drag/opposition=heat
Magnetic cogging =the attraction of a magnet to a ferromagnetic material

Some one should really get bistander out of the nut house,and over here.
He needs to be here--Chet?

Oh,and that bromickey nutjob needs to be put in a home-a mental one


Brad


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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Buy me a cigar
Is that a " Lutec " prototype per chance?


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Nanny state ? Left at the gate !! :)
   

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Bistander is making a valiant effort to clarify and standardize terminology and definitions as used in the discussion.  Unfortunately, the two main opponents in the discussion have so much emotionally invested in their wrong thinking that they are unable or unwilling to recognize TRUTH.

When Turion explains his power measurements of his multi-coiled generator it is difficult to ascertain whether he is measuring a loaded output from each of the coils singly loaded one at a time, or with all of the coils equally loaded and verifying output power of each coil while all coils are simultaneously loaded.  He may be making a serious beginner's mistake with his claim of 300 Watts input for 1800 Watts output.

I strongly suspect it is a misconception based claim.  Loading and measuring the coils one at a time will lead to some seriously wrong and inflated conclusions.

TinMan I'm still laughing!  You've stated it well!


---------------------------
"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   

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Buy me some coffee
Is that a " Lutec " prototype per chance?

 O0 O0 O0


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O0 O0 O0

That is going to be interesting O0

Regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   

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Have I missed the boat?

I struggle to find anything new or remarkable that has been shown
with the "3 battery system."  Anything that could leave me behind? ???

What am I supposed to be "warned" about? ???

Much ado about nothing? ;)


---------------------------
"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   

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Buy me some coffee
Have I missed the boat?

I struggle to find anything new or remarkable that has been shown
with the "3 battery system."  Anything that could leave me behind? ???

What am I supposed to be "warned" about? ???

Much ado about nothing? ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dik_wnOE4dk


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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That is a good'un TinMan!

Early on in the 3 battery system discussion I seem to recall
some questioning whether the "system" would work with other
than Lead-Acid Batteries.

Apparently not.  Now it is even required that the batteries be
Big Lead-Acid Batteries.

So what conclusion is any interested party liable to arrive at?

"Tell 'im 'e's dreamin'" C.C :o :-[


---------------------------
"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   
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It's turtles all the way down
That is a good'un TinMan!

Early on in the 3 battery system discussion I seem to recall
some questioning whether the "system" would work with other
than Lead-Acid Batteries.

Apparently not.  Now it is even required that the batteries be
Big Lead-Acid Batteries.

So what conclusion is any interested party liable to arrive at?

"Tell 'im 'e's dreamin'" C.C :o :-[

My Conclusion: The old 3 battery "shell game" is still fooling people.


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The discussion has taken a positive turn which
is quite encouraging. :)

However, the "extended run times" are rather easily
accounted for by a thorough comprehension of the
Lead-Acid Battery; its electro-chemical properties as
well as its physical properties while undergoing
discharge and charge. 8)

Is Energy being "recycled?"  I don't see that, but I do
see a regenerative energy distribution.  I do agree that
Pulse Charging is an essential element because that alone
will "unlock" what seems to be "hidden energy" from
within the Lead-Acid Battery.  It all goes back to how the
Lead-Acid Battery Plates have been constructed and what
they are capable of when treated with TLC*. ;)

While the Lead-Acid Battery is definitely "old technology"
for my purposes it is economically advantageous.  With proper
care and frequent non-destructive desulfation the Lead-Acid
Battery can have a very long life. :)

The discussion was quite positive until pent-up emotions and
acrimonious judgementalism entered in.
:(

[* TLC=Tender Loving Care ]


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"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   

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The discussion has taken a positive turn which
is quite encouraging. :)

However, the "extended run times" are rather easily
accounted for by a thorough comprehension of the
Lead-Acid Battery; its electro-chemical properties as
well as its physical properties while undergoing
discharge and charge. 8)

Is Energy being "recycled?"  I don't see that, but I do
see a regenerative energy distribution.  I do agree that
Pulse Charging is an essential element because that alone
will "unlock" what seems to be "hidden energy" from
within the Lead-Acid Battery.  It all goes back to how the
Lead-Acid Battery Plates have been constructed and what
they are capable of when treated with TLC*. ;)

While the Lead-Acid Battery is definitely "old technology"
for my purposes it is economically advantageous.  With proper
care and frequent non-destructive desulfation the Lead-Acid
Battery can have a very long life. :)

The discussion was quite positive until pent-up emotions and
acrimonious judgementalism entered in.
:(

[* TLC=Tender Loving Care ]

I thought it was common knowledge that more electrical energy can be delivered by batteries when delivered in pulses.
This not only give the battery time to recover between pulses,but also lowers the heat loss by the battery.

The Matt motor is nothing special,and in fact,it is actually a larger loss in the system than they seem to realize. The system would be far more efficient using a stock motor pulsed by a PWM,with a free wheeling diode across the motor.

There have been many claims made about increased efficiency,but i have not seen any data presented by any of the claimants to back up there claims-nothing but here say.


Brad



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The Matt motor is nothing special,and in fact,it is actually a larger loss in the system than they seem to realize. The system would be far more efficient using a stock motor pulsed by a PWM,with a free wheeling diode across the motor.



Brad

Brad,
Just so we don't confuse anyone,  the diode across the motor is not a freewheeling diode, it is a BEMF return diode to prevent the voltage across the motor or solenoid from rising too high and causing problems like blowing power transistors etc. (it recycles the BEMF).  The freewheeling diode you are referring to is in series with a motor and stops power from being fed back to the source when the motor becomes a generator.

Room


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"Whatever our resources of primary energy may be in the future, we must, to be rational, obtain it without consumption of any material"  Nicola Tesla

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Brad,
Just so we don't confuse anyone,  the diode across the motor is not a freewheeling diode, it is a BEMF return diode to prevent the voltage across the motor or solenoid from rising too high and causing problems like blowing power transistors etc. (it recycles the BEMF).  The freewheeling diode you are referring to is in series with a motor and stops power from being fed back to the source when the motor becomes a generator.

Room

A free wheeling diode is a flyback diode.
It is placed across an inductor  (reversed biased)to allow the current to free wheel around the inductor/diode loop when the supply current is cut off..

This diode dose exactly what you said-stops current/voltage spikes returning to the source.


Brad


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Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.
   

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Quote from: TinMan
A free wheeling diode is a flyback diode.
It is placed across an inductor  (reversed biased)to allow the current to free wheel around the inductor/diode loop when the supply current is cut off..

This diode dose exactly what you said-stops current/voltage spikes returning to the source.

When this Diode is placed across a Pulse Driven Motor
it also produces a very positive effect;  increasing the
efficiency of the motor, particularly at low rpm.

Which, of course means that it would not be a good
addition to the Generating System which relies upon
an inefficient retrograde pulse generating motor.


---------------------------
"Truth: the most deadly weapon ever discovered by humanity. Capable of destroying entire perceptual sets, cultures, and realities. Outlawed by all governments everywhere. Possession is normally punishable by death." - John Gilmore (1935- ) Author
   
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