OverUnity Research
  
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
+  OverUnity Research
|-+  Electrical / Electronic Theory and Learning Center
| |-+  EM Theory
| | |-+  Konstantin Meyl -- Tesla Scalar Wave Theory
Pages: [1] 2
Topic: Konstantin Meyl -- Tesla Scalar Wave Theory  (Read 20263 times) Print
feynman
Group: Guest
« on: 2011-03-07, 07:12:04 »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EXHLsRgdI0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EXHLsRgdI0</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLE2S5oeoEU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vLE2S5oeoEU</a>

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIzmoCii3l8" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIzmoCii3l8</a>

Meyl shows tesla longitudinal electricity transmission in 2003
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4615804709108706714#
 IP: [ Logged ]
WaveWatcher

Group: Elite
******
Posts: 1751
« Reply #1 on: 2011-03-07, 13:40:29 »
I like this guy and his message. If folks would look at the demonstrations they would see it all makes perfect sense.

He has wrongly earned the tag of 'fruit cake'. I suspect the individuals claiming he is wrong are limited to a single language.

The only things wrong with his presentations are related to his limited ability to use English. Still not bad, even for someone able to speak multiple languages fluently.  Smiley
-------------------------------
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
 IP: [ Logged ]
Groundloop
Position: Sr. Member
****
Posts: 334
« Reply #2 on: 2011-03-07, 15:00:36 »
Can anybody fluid in math answer the following:

If you have a capacitor with two plates in air and you charge them with a voltage.
Then you increase the distance between the plates.

Now, how much do the voltage increase for the increased distance between plates?
And, how much do the Farad value decrease for the same increased distance?

GL.

 IP: [ Logged ]
feynman
Group: Guest
« Reply #3 on: 2011-03-07, 15:18:18 »
@all, WaveWatcher
I have all the documentation and translations of Meyl's PDFs from German to English .   I suggest anyone interested watch the demonstration video first...

Meyl shows tesla longitudinal electricity transmission in 2003
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4615804709108706714#
 

Meyl transmits energy between two termninals ... energy which DOES NOT decrease with R^2  (in fact the energy transmitted is identical with a quadrupling of the distance), proving that what Tesla suggested (wireless transmission of power) was essentially correct, because Tesla was transmitting the scalar component of the wave equation, not the tranverse component.



I will post all the documentation on Meyl I have here later today.   Meyl has experimental kits available on his site, but I am sure it is possible to replicate this phenomenon without the kit -- I have copies of the schematics and the kit's documentation.  Basically the core of the system is the Tesla 'pancake' coil , fed by tuned resonance, which is the apparatus which induces scalar waves in the spherical antenna.


Bifilar coil in Nikola Tesla's United States patent 512,340 of 1894





@Groundloop
I don't know that formula off the top of my head , but I remember doing it in calculus-based physics.  Anyone else remember this?
 IP: [ Logged ]
feynman
Group: Guest
« Reply #4 on: 2011-03-07, 17:04:46 »
Konstantin Meyl -- Documentation in English and German

English:
http://feynmanslab.com/docs/meyl/english/

German:
http://feynmanslab.com/docs/meyl/german/


As reading, the documentation for Meyl's experimental kit is pretty good when it comes to good information on the theory and practice of transmitting and receiving scalar waves.



Meyl Scalar Wave Experimental Kit


Meyl Scalar Wave Transmitter/Receiver Schematics

source: http://feynmanslab.com/docs/meyl/english/Meyl%20-%20Scalar%20Wave%20Technology%20-%20Documentation%20for%20the%20Experimental-Kit%20to%20the%20transmission%20of%20ele.pdf

 IP: [ Logged ]
Dumped

Position: Hero Member
*****
Posts: 749
« Reply #5 on: 2011-03-07, 22:24:17 »
Can anybody fluid in math answer the following:

If you have a capacitor with two plates in air and you charge them with a voltage.
Then you increase the distance between the plates.

Now, how much do the voltage increase for the increased distance between plates?
And, how much do the Farad value decrease for the same increased distance?

GL.


Yes, there is a standard formula which will answer your question.

What you've asked about is the principle utilized in the Parametric
Amplifier which makes use of a Voltage Controlled Variable Capacitor.

Varactor

Look Here

And Here

-------------------------------
Our Western partners headed by the United States prefer not to be guided by international law in their practical policies, but by the rule of the gun. They have come to believe in their exceptionalism and their sense of being the chosen ones.

Vladimir Putin, in speech before the Federal Assembly
 IP: [ Logged ]
giantkiller

Position: Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1079

Frequency equals matter...

« Reply #6 on: 2011-03-07, 23:30:03 »
I took notice to Meyl's statement of the near field as scalar and noise. This I associated with the TPU because of the close proximinty of the coils and SM's mention of the hash.
-------------------------------
 IP: [ Logged ] WWW
feynman
Group: Guest
« Reply #7 on: 2011-03-08, 00:04:00 »
Here is a diagram of scalar waves vs transverse waves from Meyl's web site.  I think the scalar magnetic and scalar electric impulses are 90degrees out of phase in the time domain (t).  aka during compressions and rarefactions.  I'm still trying to understand how this fits together, but the important idea is that there are two types of waves -- transverse waves have been studies for 100 years, and scalar waves are unknown in textbooks.



We can generate and propegate Tesla scalar waves using his pancake type coil  , when it is properly driven in resonance connected to the ball-like antenna.  This mirrors Tesla' Colorado Springs experiments where he lit lights 25 miles away, and he properly called his 'Tesla Magnifying Transmitter' because he was getting overunity power reception at his receivers (unlike transverse/hertzian waves, which diminish with the radius squared).
 IP: [ Logged ]
WaveWatcher

Group: Elite
******
Posts: 1751
« Reply #8 on: 2011-03-08, 00:40:18 »
You don't need the kits if you already know how it works.

Unfortunately, the ones thinking it is impossible or not knowing how it works will find enough reasoning to not try or not see even if they do use the kits.
There are enough of the results attributable to standard RF transmission and capacitance to prevent many from trying.

I will disagree with anyone saying they only transmit one or the other. Tesla may have considered Hertzian waves to be worthless and not considered their effects on his experiments. As far as I'm concerned you can't transmit one without the other. The only thing you can do is insert the transmitter into properly designed Faraday cage to eliminate the transverse effects or design to enhance what you are looking for.

You don't need to invest in the kits if:

1. you don't think there is difference in operation between a solenoid wound and single layer planar coil.
2. building a coil with almost zero inductance just doesn't make sense
3. you don't see a difference between electromagnetic and magnetic resonance
4. you think resonance is only that point of frequency where an LCR circuit naturally oscillates when external energy is supplied.

I haven't succeeded in many of the claims but there is enough to warrant experimentation. There will be no explanation of the above from me. My own personal experience indicates belief is impossible unless you succeed yourself. Probably many times before the observations sink in.  Wink

I'm not saying I believe everything Meyl says. I'm still the same way. It isn't a fact until it works on my bench.



-------------------------------
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
 IP: [ Logged ]
WaveWatcher

Group: Elite
******
Posts: 1751
« Reply #9 on: 2011-03-08, 00:48:34 »
I think the scalar magnetic and scalar electric impulses are 90degrees out of phase in the time domain...

Nope  Smiley

Quote
We can generate and propegate Tesla scalar waves using his pancake type coil  , when it is properly driven in resonance connected to the ball-like antenna.  This mirrors Tesla' Colorado Springs experiments where he lit lights 25 miles away, and he properly called his 'Tesla Magnifying Transmitter' because he was getting overunity power reception at his receivers (unlike transverse/hertzian waves, which diminish with the radius squared).

Another one that isn't a fact for me. I'm waiting for that bench that is 25 miles wide  Wink
-------------------------------
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
 IP: [ Logged ]
Groundloop
Position: Sr. Member
****
Posts: 334
« Reply #10 on: 2011-03-08, 01:22:27 »

Yes, there is a standard formula which will answer your question.

What you've asked about is the principle utilized in the Parametric
Amplifier which makes use of a Voltage Controlled Variable Capacitor.

Varactor

Look Here

And Here



Dumped,

Thank you for taking time to answer my questions, but I could not find any formulas that tells me
how much the voltage increase with distance or how much the Farad value decrease with distance.
(I'm terrible with math so if anybody can post the formulas here then I will be grateful.)

GL.
 IP: [ Logged ]
feynman
Group: Guest
« Reply #11 on: 2011-03-08, 01:54:19 »
@WaveWatcher

Thanks for your comments, which are insightful and useful.


Quote
I will disagree with anyone saying they only transmit one or the other. Tesla may have considered Hertzian waves to be worthless and not considered their effects on his experiments. As far as I'm concerned you can't transmit one without the other.

I don't know the answer to this ("Can we generate scalar waves or tranverse waves without generating the other?"), but it's a very important question.   A kit seller on Ebay says his kit generates both scalar and transverse waves, but claims you can tune towards one or the other.  From Meyl's schematics, it would seem he generates RF from the oscillator, as well as scalar.  Naudin claims you can generate scalar waves with a Caudeceus coil, but these are probably (if they work) also coupled with bursts of RF.



Naudin: The soliton pulse generator experiment
http://jnaudin.free.fr/spgen/index.htm

Naudin: Test of the EM Soliton pulses through an EM shield
http://jnaudin.free.fr/spgen/spg_shield.htm

 
Quote
The only thing you can do is insert the transmitter into properly designed Faraday cage to eliminate the transverse effects or design to enhance what you are looking for.
Agreed.



Quote
You don't need to invest in the kits if:
1. you don't think there is difference in operation between a solenoid wound and single layer planar coil.
Great point.   Is there a difference?
CON: The Tesla Scalar wave builder on Ebay has recently switched from pancake to cylindrical coils.  Apparently he can still generate scalar waves.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Tesla-Scalar-Wave-Demo-Coil-Pair-Konstantin-Meyl-like-/140510792593#payId
CON: Naudin receives scopable hash on a standard coil through a Faraday cage.
PRO: Photographs of Tesla in his office , post Colorado Springs, show him doing wireless displays in front of a large pancake coil.
PRO: Tesla single-wire power transmission patents, which utilize bifilar pancake coils to transmit energy down a single wire.  (Tesla Patent 593139)





Quote
You don't need to invest in the kits if:
3. you don't see a difference between electromagnetic and magnetic resonance
Agreed.. this is one area where I might disagree with Meyl.  Unless the magnetic and electric scalar components are separable during experiment, we should consider Tesla scalar waves to have both longitudinal components together.  Let me quote Meyl in his own words:

Quote
"Let us record: For the wave propagation there thus are three possible and stable states (fig.
21.12): the transverse electromagnetic wave according to Heinrich Hertz (fig. 1), the
longitudinal electric wave according to Nikola Tesla (fig. 2), and a longitudinal magnetic
wave (fig. 3), which isn't connected yet with a name of a discoverer. The last one is a pure
product of my theoretical derivation
. The question is asked, which practical meaning the
magnetic wave could have."
-Konstantin Meyl
Scalar Waves: Tesla Physics for Engineers, "Derivation of the Scalar Wave" pp471

So Meyl has predicted the magnetic scalar waves' existence theoretically -- but says that it has a basis in reality.   Meyl states that the three waves a separable and distinct.  He says Tesla is concerned primarily with the longitudinal / scalar electric wave.  He says that biological cell communication can occur via magnetic scalar waves , filtered via cell-level hyperboloid structures.  

Basically, for now, I think we consider the magnetic and electric components of the scalar wave simultaneous with a possible phase relationship, and possibly separable.  This is in need of experiments.

Quote
4. You don't need to invest in the kits if:
you think resonance is only that point of frequency where an LCR circuit naturally oscillates when external energy is supplied.
Well, I think this is true for transverse waves, but we probably need to derive the properties of scalar waves from scratch, given that they have a variable propagation speed.

Quote
I'm not saying I believe everything Meyl says. I'm still the same way. It isn't a fact until it works on my bench.
Me neither.  But he is one of the few physicists with both a theory AND a working bench device.  But I agree, there's parts of his theory I disagree with.  Theories are only good as insofar as they can make usable predictions.

Meyl on Scalar Waves:
"The course of the field lines clarifies the difference. For the scalar wave all field lines
going away from the transmitter run together again. As long as no scattering field occurs,
there also won't be any transmission losses. It is an energy wave, for which the full
broadcasting power is transmitted wirelessly and which arrives at the receiver, by that
focussing the field lines again."

"For a [transverse wave] mobile with 3 Watts of broadcasting power only a few microwatt arrive at the
ground station. If I would have a scalar wave mobile, which functions with resonance,
then a broadcasting power of some microwatt will be completely sufficient, to carry out a
telephone call right through the earth. This minimum broadcasting power suffices, because
everything, what is being transmitted, arrives at the receiver - crucial is that the conditions
of resonance are fulfilled. That means, both must have the same frequency and the
opposite phase. In addition the modulation has to fit, so that on the one hand not several
participants in the conversation are getting in each other's way. For a purely carrier wave
transmission on the other hand there would be the risk of natural fields being collected
also and the power at the receiver taking inadmissibly high values. This is prevented
effectively by a correspondingly complex modulation.Nature solves the problem in
exactly this manner."
-Konstantin Meyl
Scalar Waves: Tesla Physics for Engineers, "Properties of Scalar Waves" pp485

"Scalar waves are still unexplored area, scientific new ground as it were. Individual
research scientists already have selectively ventured forward in this area and have
described properties of the scalar wave investigated by them in their special research area
mostly in measurement technical manner. But as a rule they lack the physical relation, as it
is derived in this book for the first time. If we don't proceed from individual
measurements, but from the wave equation and the mathematical physical derivation of
scalar waves, then we have the great chance to understand as something belonging
together on the one hand noise, photons, neutrinos and lots of other known phenomena as
well as on the other hand still unknown phenomena, which are called parascientific.
We should remember that we without theory of Maxwell and the representation in a
frequency band today still wouldn't know that the radio waves (LW, MW, KW, UHF), the
microwaves ( W), the infrared thermal radiation (IR), the light and the X-rays concern
just the same phenomenon"
-Konstantin Meyl
Scalar Waves: Tesla Physics for Engineers, "Properties of Scalar Waves" pp487

I might add, there is a section titled
23.4 Prediction of earthquakes with the help of scalar waves

Anyways, the reason we might want to consider magnetic and electric scalar waves separate might help us in design of phenomenon such as the TPU.  
 IP: [ Logged ]
feynman
Group: Guest
« Reply #12 on: 2011-03-08, 02:08:32 »
Quote
Quote
I think the scalar magnetic and scalar electric impulses are 90degrees out of phase in the time domain...
-Feynman
Nope Smiley -WaveWatcher

You are correct.  I misunderstood.   The scalar wave(s) are in phase with themselves -- but may not be in phase with the associated transverse wave.  

I mistook Meyl's claimed angle of the scalar wave E-field vs H-field (90 degrees) in the near-field of a transmitter ,and the claimed far-field transverse wave angle between E-field and H-field (0 degrees) to be analogous to phase.  

In reality, the magnetic and electric scalar waves should be perfectly in phase at some distance x assuming they have the same propagation rate, and assuming we can even separate the scalar wave into an electric and magnetic component.  The magnetic and electric scalar wave might be inseparable.

However, the EM transverse wave and the EM scalar wave of a transmitter may go in and out of phase as distance increases, due to their different propagation rates.  That is, the EM transverse wave propegates at c=300,000km/s , while EM scalar waves have variable propagation rates  (just like sound has different speeds at different altitudes , and through different materials).

Thanks for clearing that up; I've been searching all the pdfs for confirmation regarding scalar phase.

 IP: [ Logged ]
WaveWatcher

Group: Elite
******
Posts: 1751
« Reply #13 on: 2011-03-08, 05:17:54 »
The magnetic and electric scalar wave might be inseparable.

I suspect they are just as magnetic and electric are. That is, the magnetic and the electric are two facets of the same cause.

Quote
However, the EM transverse wave and the EM scalar wave of a transmitter may go in and out of phase as distance increases, due to their different propagation rates.  

Here we have something needing a test. I believe the majority actually able to produce scalar will believe scalar are faster than transverse. To them I would say 'yes and no'. So many observations have been made and not continued after something comes to light. Once a maximum velocity is found then a minimum should be sought. After that I would want to know the real reasons for the variation.

I think we'll find that the velocity range of the scalar component will vary between .375C and 1.625C of the transverse component. That variation above and below C will only change due to the amount of energy under the leading edge making frontal velocity apparent. So, the lower the energy ratio of scalar to transverse the less the leading and lagging of the scalar wave facet compared to the transverse facet.

In other words....
The velocity of the scalar isn't due to the velocity factor of the traversed medium. The average velocity of the scalar is C of the transverse wave. At one point in time this velocity may appear as high as 1.625C or as low as .375C. It depends upon what you are looking at, compression or rarefication.

This might also make some think they are seeing effect before cause  Cheesy
 
-------------------------------
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
 IP: [ Logged ]
Dumped

Position: Hero Member
*****
Posts: 749
« Reply #14 on: 2011-03-08, 05:45:22 »
Dumped,

Thank you for taking time to answer my questions, but I could not find any formulas that tells me
how much the voltage increase with distance or how much the Farad value decrease with distance.
(I'm terrible with math so if anybody can post the formulas here then I will be grateful.)

GL.



Yes, I failed to include THIS LINK which provides
the needed clue.

For the parallel plate capacitor the Voltage between the two
plates is directly proportional to the Distance between the
plates.

For example, if a given two plate capacitor with an air dielectric
is charged to 100 Volts when the plates are some distance apart;
doubling the spacing distance will double the voltage.

Conversely, decreasing the spacing distance by half will decrease
the voltage by half.

-------------------------------
Our Western partners headed by the United States prefer not to be guided by international law in their practical policies, but by the rule of the gun. They have come to believe in their exceptionalism and their sense of being the chosen ones.

Vladimir Putin, in speech before the Federal Assembly
 IP: [ Logged ]
Groundloop
Position: Sr. Member
****
Posts: 334
« Reply #15 on: 2011-03-08, 09:55:45 »


Yes, I failed to include THIS LINK which provides
the needed clue.

For the parallel plate capacitor the Voltage between the two
plates is directly proportional to the Distance between the
plates.

For example, if a given two plate capacitor with an air dielectric
is charged to 100 Volts when the plates are some distance apart;
doubling the spacing distance will double the voltage.

Conversely, decreasing the spacing distance by half will decrease
the voltage by half.



Dumped,

So if the voltage is doubled linear by doubling the distance then the capacitor value (Farad) is reduced by 1/4 by the same doubling of the distance?
Test: U = 0.5 * C * (V*V)  C=10 Farad V=10 Volt gives U=500.  Double distance   U = 0.5 *  2.5 * (20*20) = 500. Looks right to me.

Thanks.

GL.
 IP: [ Logged ]
exnihiloest
Group: Read Only
*****
Posts: 1371
« Reply #16 on: 2011-03-08, 10:40:09 »
Can anybody fluid in math answer the following:

If you have a capacitor with two plates in air and you charge them with a voltage.
Then you increase the distance between the plates.

Now, how much do the voltage increase for the increased distance between plates?
And, how much do the Farad value decrease for the same increased distance?
...

C=ε0*S/d with S surface of the plates, d distance between plates.
U=Q/C = Q*d/(ε0*S)
Q is the capacitor charge, it is constant.

Therefore if you double the distance between plates, you double the voltage.
It is interesting to note that in the same time, the energy E in the capacitor is also doubled, because even if C is divided by 2, E is proportional to U squared (E =1/2*C*U2).

Where the energy comes from? When the capacitor is charged, the 2 plates attract  each other due to the Coulomb force. When you move the plates away, you must exert a work against the Coulomb force. It is this mechanical work that is changed in extra electrical energy stored in the capacitor. Energy conservation still occurs.

Last Edit: 2011-03-08, 11:40:27 by exnihiloest
 IP: [ Logged ]
Groundloop
Position: Sr. Member
****
Posts: 334
« Reply #17 on: 2011-03-08, 10:51:14 »
C=ε0*S/d with S surface of the plates, d distance between plates.
U=Q/C = Q*d/(ε0*S)
Q is the capacitor charge, it is constant.

Therefore if you double the distance between plates, you double the voltage.
It is interesting to note that in the same time, the energy E in the capacitor is multiplied by 4, because E in proportional to U squared (E =1/2*C*U2).

Where the energy comes from? When the capacitor is charged, the 2 plates attract  each other due to the Coulomb force. When you move the plates away, you must exert a work against the Coulomb force. It is this mechanical work that is changed in extra electrical energy stored in the capacitor. Energy conservation still occurs.



Exnihiloest,

How much do the capacitance change by doubling the distance?

GL.
 IP: [ Logged ]
humbugger
Group: Guest
« Reply #18 on: 2011-03-08, 11:23:13 »
Exnihiloest,

How much do the capacitance change by doubling the distance?

GL.


JUST THE EXACT AMOUNT THAT WILL KEEP THE ENERGY OF THE CHARGE EXACTLY THE SAME...BUT I DON'T THINK HE WANTS TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT.  YOU DON'T GET TO HARVEST ANY FREE ENERGY BY MOVING CAPACITOR PLATES AWAY FROM OR TOWARD EACH OTHER.  YOU LOSE WHATEVER ENERGY IS REQUIRED TO DO THE PHYSICAL MOVING.

HUMBUGGER 

NOT SHOUTING...KEYBOARD STUCK ON ALL CAPS
 IP: [ Logged ]
exnihiloest
Group: Read Only
*****
Posts: 1371
« Reply #19 on: 2011-03-08, 11:29:00 »

I led experiments on scalar waves, a few years ago. By modulating a high voltage at the terminal capacity of on open LC circuit, I was able to transmit a 2 Khz signal to a receiver consisting of a single capacity connected to an audio amplifier, up to 50 mtrs . Nevertheless this phenomenon was not distinguishable from two LC circuits coupled in near field. All experiments involving supposedly "scalar waves", especially those from Meyl, are all modelizable with classical electromagnetism using the near field, i.e. where the dimensions of the circuits and their distance are short in comparison with the wave length of the signals, and where E and H components don't radiate and are not directly linked, contrarily to an EM plane wave where E/H equals the vacuum impedance. And when higher frequencies are used, EM waves are generated and it becomes impossible to discriminate scalar waves from artefacts due to EM waves (I have never seen one experiment avoiding this confusion beyond any doubt, including this of Monstein, see http://iopscience.iop.org/0295-5075/59/4/514).
Thus if we apply Okkham razor, we don't need to suppose the existence of scalar waves. Even though I consider Tesla as one of the greatest inventors, I'm convinced he was wrong with his scalar wave, the experimental evidence is against him, and Maxwell was right.


 IP: [ Logged ]
exnihiloest
Group: Read Only
*****
Posts: 1371
« Reply #20 on: 2011-03-08, 11:38:25 »
Exnihiloest,

How much do the capacitance change by doubling the distance?

GL.


Apply the formula:
"C=ε0*S/d"  with S surface of the plates, d distance between plates.

If you replace d with 2*d, you must replace C with C/2: the capacity is divided by 2 when the plate distance is doubled.

Note that this formula is an approximation, it works only when the distance between plates is very much shorter than the dimensions of the plates. For example if plates are disk of 10 cm radius, distance between plates should not exceed some mm (some % of the plate dimensions), otherwise a much more complicated formula has to be used.

(I have corrected my previous post, because energy is only doubled due to the fact that E=1/2*C*U2 with U2 multiplied by 4 but C divided by 2).


 IP: [ Logged ]
Groundloop
Position: Sr. Member
****
Posts: 334
« Reply #21 on: 2011-03-08, 12:00:31 »
Exnihiloest,

Thanks, I understand now.

The voltage doubles when the distance double.
The capacitor value will be half when the distance doubles.
The energy stored will be two times the initial when distance double.
The energy came from the operator that did the work to double the distance.

Now if I use the formula E = 0.5 * C * (V*V) then:

For 1 Farad 10 Volt:

Distance 1x   E = 0.5 * 1 * (10*10) = 50 Joules
Distance 2x   E = 0,5 * 0.5 * (20*20) = 100 Joules
Distance 4x   E = 0,5 * 0.25 * (40*40) = 200 Joules

So this checks out fine. :-)

GL.
 IP: [ Logged ]
exnihiloest
Group: Read Only
*****
Posts: 1371
« Reply #22 on: 2011-03-08, 12:09:58 »
Exnihiloest,

Thanks, I understand now.

The voltage doubles when the distance double.
The capacitor value will be half when the distance doubles.
The energy stored will be two times the initial when distance double.
The energy came from the operator that did the work to double the distance.

Now if I use the formula E = 0.5 * C * (V*V) then:

For 1 Farad 10 Volt:

Distance 1x   E = 0.5 * 1 * (10*10) = 50 Joules
Distance 2x   E = 0,5 * 0.5 * (20*20) = 100 Joules
Distance 4x   E = 0,5 * 0.25 * (40*40) = 200 Joules

So this checks out fine. :-)

GL.

Well summed up, I agree 100%.

 IP: [ Logged ]
Groundloop
Position: Sr. Member
****
Posts: 334
« Reply #23 on: 2011-03-08, 12:18:42 »
JUST THE EXACT AMOUNT THAT WILL KEEP THE ENERGY OF THE CHARGE EXACTLY THE SAME...BUT I DON'T THINK HE WANTS TO ACKNOWLEDGE THAT.  YOU DON'T GET TO HARVEST ANY FREE ENERGY BY MOVING CAPACITOR PLATES AWAY FROM OR TOWARD EACH OTHER.  YOU LOSE WHATEVER ENERGY IS REQUIRED TO DO THE PHYSICAL MOVING.

HUMBUGGER 

NOT SHOUTING...KEYBOARD STUCK ON ALL CAPS

Hum,

Just thinking.......................

If we use a pizo electric speaker and mount a capacitor plate on top of it then we get a movable capacitor plate.
We charge the plate when the distance is smallest and take out 1/2 the energy when the distance is doubled.
The work we pay to do this is the same as we get out. (With some small losses.) But, we know that if we use
the resonant frequency of the weight of the capacitor plate, then we only need to put in approx. 2% of the initial
work to move the plate. Will this work?

GL.
 IP: [ Logged ]
WaveWatcher

Group: Elite
******
Posts: 1751
« Reply #24 on: 2011-03-08, 12:52:43 »
But, we know that if we use
the resonant frequency of the weight of the capacitor plate, then we only need to put in approx. 2% of the initial
work to move the plate. Will this work?

GL.

Consider this....
 Will adding or removing charge to this 'resonant motion' capacitor change the resonant frequency of motion or just make it more complex?
-------------------------------
"As far as the laws of mathematics refer to reality, they are not certain; as far as they are certain, they do not refer to reality." - Einstein

"What we observe is not nature itself, but nature exposed to our method of questioning." - Werner Heisenberg
 IP: [ Logged ]
« previous next »
Print
Pages: [1] 2  
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Forum and Banner by OUR Team