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Author Topic: Romerouk's Muller Replication  (Read 491356 times)
Group: Guest
MIB's have not pulled the entire stock of Maplin converters they are on a special price right now £9.99


Somehow, I doubt MIBs had any participation. These web forums of so-called 'peers' can be brutal enough.
   
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Memorable quote:

Quote
With a number of overunity devices coming up - skeptics
should at least begin practicing a little disembling and groveling while
saying: "I didn't know you could do that".  :D  History won't be repeating
itself any time soon.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Can you say that again?
   

Group: Tinkerer
Hero Member
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Posts: 3941
tExB=qr
There should be an easier way to bias the ferites than stacking magnets and washers like he did.

I just ordered  90 neodymium disk magnets !     :)     (I'll make a few models and vary parameters)


EM

Say it sin't so, EM!  Say it isn't so!
   

Group: Elite Experimentalist
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Posts: 1567
Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
It is much more productive to cut the flux like Smith and Muller than to spin magnets. Spinning allows the fields to creep up and slide away wheres as cutting has clear demarcations which excite the coils more.


---------------------------
   
Group: Guest
Say it isn't so, EM!  Say it isn't so!
Maybe we should no longer wish anyone OU success, ...we will never hear from them again.  :'(
   
Group: Guest
So much for Romerouk,

As far as I am concerned this guy got caught in an irrational compulsion to fake over unity and when he realized he was in too deep he freaked out.

Perhaps he looked at his two analog meter readings and got a free energy hard-on and the thing took on a life of its own.  After years of failed experiments he felt a compulsion to demonstrate success, even if it meant putting on a charade.  So he hid his wires and followed his compulsion and did the 20-minute video.

I don't buy all the stuff about the "intense pressure" at all.  It's email.  You don't have to answer it.  There was only a mild amount of skepticism on OU.

However, his clips were definitely not as slick or as perfect as he thought they were.  He read some comments on OU about little inconsistencies in the clips, perhaps here also, and he started to get worried.

The pressure started to build up inside him because he knew that he could never pull off a fourth clip and address some of the technical issues that were mentioned.  For example, when he was running the motor at 3 volts, the pick-up coils were probably returning a bumpy waveform with peaks of about three volts.  The DC-to-DC converter is designed for 12-volts in.  Chances are the DC-to-DC converter would croak with the very weak output from the pick-up coils trying to power it.  My assumption is that he was faking that clip and running 12-volts to the DC-to-DC converter the whole time.

So, with that kind of stress on him, there was another stress on top of that.  The stress was knowing that many people were probably spending somewhere between $200 and $600 to try to replicate his fake bullshit.  Many of these people were his online friends and peers and he felt horrible about inducing them to spend so much of their hard-earned money for junk, not to mention all of the time they would waste trying to build something that he knew ahead of time would not work.

When you are under that kind of self-imposed pressure and the community that you are dealing with is all virtual and online, the way to make it all go away is to simply run away.

So that's what he did and even played the fake "guilt trip" card that Mylow played.  He barked out, "T H I S  W A S   A   B I G    F A K E,      S T O P  R E P L I C A T I N G" as his parting run-away shot in an attempt to make all of us feel guilty about putting poor Romerouk under "so much pressure."  "I am so wounded that you are doubting me that I will cry out in pain and show you all how you made me feel."  Kiss my ass liar!

The pressure was all self-created inside Romerouk's head.  He did a stupid nonsensical irrational thing and it was bound to spiral out of control in his head so he had to run away.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
A few follow-up comments to this ridiculous fiasco.

The believers and supporters of Romerouk, sometimes you guys don't have your heads screwed on right.  The moment Romero did his videos and showed a bare minimum of information you were all convinced.  When requests were made for more information many of you actively resisted this and acted as blockers.  Romero provided almost NO INFORMATION and you fought tooth and nail to PREVENT any more information about the motor being shared with the community.  You actually insisted that he provided all the information necessary when anybody with the most basic understanding of electronics and motors would think that you were nuts for stating that.

WTF???  Really, what the fuck is wrong with you guys?  This is supposed to be OPEN SOURCE, you are supposed to encourage the sharing of information and you end up doing exactly the opposite.

This thing was a MOTOR, and there are WAVEFORMS that show how it works.  There are MEASUREMENTS that can be made external and internal to the circuit to enlighten and teach others how it works and you fools RESISTED these requests.

Wake up and do some soul searching about this.  Next time this situation happens, put your brains in gear and try to work with the developer to understand how the ELECTRICAL MOTOR works with respect to the ELECTRICAL SIGNALS that describe it.

You guys obsess over how many turns in the coil and and the electrical resistance and if it's litz wire or not.  You obsess over the MECHANICALS but you are not interested in the ELECTRICAL SIGNAL being produced by the coil.  It's fucking ridiculous!

Rant off.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
EMdevices:

I assume that you will concede that there is something amiss with your calculations because the calculated voltages don't reflect the reality.  The setup was not putting out 300 volts at one rotation per second (60 RPM).  Also note the rotor never even got close to 100 rotations per second in his clips.

Look, there is a much simpler way to analyze this.  For the sake of argument, let's assume that the scope shot was taken at 100 RPM.  Since the output voltage is proportional to dB/dt then if the rotor was spinning at 200 RPM the output voltage from the coils would double.

As far as the waveform goes, what you see is all purely based on geometry, it has nothing to do with the biasing magnets.  If somebody builds a replication then the they can do that test I suggested where they look at the same waveform with and without biasing magnets.

That waveform is perhaps a good opportunity for some people to learn, especially if you are going to build a replication.  If you look at that waveform and don't understand why it is shaped the way it is shaped, you should try and figure that one out for yourselves as a learning exercise.

MileHigh
   

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Posts: 3941
tExB=qr
what asymmetry?

Romero faking or not, Bill Muller claimed it was OU.
   
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Hey Em

In that scope shot. Is that the combined output of all coils in succession, or is it of just 1 coil pair?

Either way, I see the larger flat spot as if the rotor mag is in between coils. And the peaks are showing when the mag is on top of the approaching edge of the coil or close and just after passing the core. The short flat spots are when the mag is over the core.

When the mag approaches the coil, it is concentrated on just one side of the coil, producing a positive or negative peak, and on the exit we see the opposite polarity peak.

As the mag approaches, the mags field is attracted to the side of the coils core, where the windings are, causing current to flow in one direction through the coil. And when the mag passes the core, the field lines will be attracted to the exit side of the core, causing current to flow the other way.

I think if we analyze the wave form, I believe we can see a difference in the attack and decay of the peaks, as it should be, because of where the mag filelds begin and end in the attack, and where they begin and end in the decay.

Like in an alternator stator core,( you can search pics to see) its not the armature field just jumping from core section to core section that causes the current in the stator windings, its the fields being dragged along the stator core and flowing into the winding gaps that creates the currents in the windings.  ;]  The fields need to CUT the windings to produce current in the wire.

Now we have another ingredient. The Bias mags.  ;]

Are they just biasing the coils?

I see it this way.....

Lets just picture 1 set of coils, top and bottom, no rotor.

I think that being the top and bottom are in attraction to each other, when the rotor mag is not over the coils, but in between coils, that this attraction happens and helps to create a flux field band between top and bottom coils.

Now we will just look at the top coil and assume the bottom will mirror the tops actions.  ;]

When the rotor mag approaches the coil, we might think that the mag is not attracted to the coil core. It may not, being the core is biased in repulsion to the approaching mag pole. This approach of the rotor mag will most likely push the bias field to the opposite side of the coil core. Now we have the bias mags field cutting the exit side of the coil, and we have the entry side of the coil being cut by the rotor mag.

This combination could be doubling the amount of flux cutting the coil at that time. Instead of just cutting on the approaching side, and just the exit side when the mag passes the coil.  This may be key to his amount of generation, for such an open and seemingly sparse generator construction, say as compared to any production model considered.

More later....

Mags
   
Group: Guest
EMdevices:

I see the asymmetry also but like I said it all has to do with geometry.

Quote
So in anycase, it appears that it should work just fine at lower speeds if the DC/DC converter can handle that low of voltage.[/u]

This is a good question and my guess would be that the DC-to-DC converter would fail if it was fed a very low voltage like three volts.  The spec for it specifically states 12 volts in.  So that means it probably works from about nine volts through 15 volts.  I am talking voltage-source volts here also.  That's much different from the higher impedance three-volts-with-ripple that would be coming from the pick-up coils at a lower rotor RPM.  Even if the DC-to-DC converter worked at this very low voltage it would demand so much current from the pick-up coils to maintain it's output that the output from the pick-up coils would likely croak.

Realistically, the oscillator and the voltage sensing and PWM circuitry in the DC-to-DC converter was designed as cheaply as possible so that means it would only work at higher voltages.

When somebody gets the DC-to-DC converter they can perhaps set the output voltage to three volts and put a five watt load on the output.  Then start feeding it 12 volts on it's power input and slowly lower the voltage.  I expect that it will croak at around nine volts.  It's just a guess.

If someone was really anal they could do the audio analysis of the 20 minute clip and get the RPMs of the rotor at 12-volts and also at 3 volts.  You assume that the 15-volts in from the pick-up coils is legit (for the sake of argument) and then derive the pick-up coil output voltage at the lower RPM.  Then you could see how the DC-to-DC converter responds.

It's actually a bit more complicated that that relating to the conduction angle of the FWBRs versus the quasi-DC output voltage from the FWBRs and capacitor combination as it relates to the actual load being drawn by the power input of the DC-to-DC converter.  In simple English the quasi-DC voltage measurement from the FWBR outputs is also a function of the load.  The lower the effective resistance of the load the lower the quasi-DC voltage.  Since Romero is gone, the only way to get a handle on that would be to have a quite similar replication and do an investigation.

The results of the investigation should show that when Romero was powering the motor with three volts DC from the DC-to-DC converter that the output from the pick-up coil plus FWBRs would not have nearly enough juice to keep the DC-to-DC converter alive.  Hence he was powering the FWBR output voltage bus with an external power source when he made the 20-minute clip.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
EM,

Give it up.

Soon he will fall into a deep twitching sleep and be back to maintain the vacuum in the morning. You will never convince him the curve is anything more than carved into ferrite and analog meters are completely unreliable except when Kirchoff used them (  :D ).

I'll bet you didn't know that Kirchoff's work is the basis for the action in a D'Arsonval meter movement  C.C

Anyway....  So much for that....

What is next? Is there any meat left on Rosemarie's bones?

Should I stick one of my projects in the Paraná filled aquarium?  Maybe my flashlight schematic?  Nope -- don't think so.  I'm sure somebody would have a problem with me claiming the bulb glows when the switch is turned on.

   
Group: Guest
Magluvin:

Quote
This combination could be doubling the amount of flux cutting the coil at that time. Instead of just cutting on the approaching side, and just the exit side when the mag passes the coil.  This may be key to his amount of generation, for such an open and seemingly sparse generator construction, say as compared to any production model considered.

That all seems to sound fine and dandy.  Imagine some flux contortions and you double your power.  If you double your power you have to double the mechanical power that the rotor is supplying to the pick-up coils.  Your imaginative example comes up often on the free energy forums.

He is a simplified version of your example that we have all read hundreds of times, "I'll add some extra pick-up coils and produce more power!"

It doesn't work like that.  You can't produce more electrical power out of thin air by adding extra pick-up coils.  The only way to produce more electrical power if you add extra pick-up coils is to supply more mechanical power.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Quote
This is the asymetry that has my curriosity right now.   The red line I drew is different then the blue,  and almost looks exponential in nature.

So what possible explanations can you come up with the explain the asymmetry?  Anybody?
   
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As far as I am concerned, here is the real critical issue of the day:

(Quoting myself)

Quote
This is supposed to be OPEN SOURCE, you are supposed to encourage the sharing of information and you end up doing exactly the opposite.

Do any of you have the guts to acknowledge this issue and admit that you were wrong?  You know who you are and that applies to the lurkers from OU also.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Actually MH, Prove that its a fake?  You have all this so called knowledge, numbers, and magic visual abilities. SHOW me that he faked it.
Show me!   You cant. You cant look at the vid and find 1 fault.  SHOW ME!   lol

Ya cant.   :P  All you have in all these posts is strictly negative speculation.  And yes, we are all about positive speculation.

Its like an Atheist. They could care less about believing in God, yet they spend ALL their time preaching that God does not exist.
You may say you are trying to help us from our so called demise. We are not in pain. We are not asking for that kind of help. We are happy with what we cant see. ;)  And that just eats you up dont it.  lol  Amazing   Ok  lets boogie. O0

Mags
   
Group: Guest
As far as I am concerned, here is the real critical issue of the day:

(Quoting myself)

Do any of you have the guts to acknowledge this issue and admit that you were wrong?  You know who you are and that applies to the lurkers from OU also.

MileHigh

Lurkers?  Did you start this thread?  Is this your forum?  Are you the top cop here? 

I am here by permission just as you. I have not been banned from anywhere. eeevvver  ever.

OU and OUR should be working together on things. But it seems to be a small war. Them this and they that. Grow up MH. What grade are you in?  lol

Mags
   
Group: Guest
Magluvin:

You know the response to this:  The burden of proof is on you if you or others are going to build it.

There were lots of faults in the videos, go back and read what I posted.

Prove to me that there aren't going to be pink elephants in the sky when I drive to work tomorrow morning.  You can't prove that I won't see pink elephants in the sky tomorrow morning!  You can't!  :P O0

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Magluvin:

Quote
OU and OUR should be working together on things.

I agree.  And that's why the issue is so important.  It's so ironic to see the people that want to share information actively suppressing information.  It takes character to admit that you were wrong.  (That's a generic "you.")

What grade are you in?

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Magluvin:

You know the response to this:  The burden of proof is on you if you or others are going to build it.

There were lots of faults in the videos, go back and read what I posted.

Prove to me that there aren't going to be pink elephants in the sky when I drive to work tomorrow morning.  You can't prove that I won't see pink elephants in the sky tomorrow morning!  You can't!  :P O0

MileHigh

Well  I already have the PUTTING on the stove. Ill let you lick the spoon when its cooked.     O0

Mags


   
Group: Guest
Magluvin:

I agree.  And that's why the issue is so important.  It's so ironic to see the people that want to share information actively suppressing information.  It takes character to admit that you were wrong.  (That's a generic "you.")

What grade are you in?

MileHigh

Are you saying I am suppressing info? Oh wait, are you talking to the guy in the mirror?  ;)

So far lately all I see from you is negativity. That can push people away or deter them. THATS a form of suppression.  >:-)
I see you making fun of others. Nobody laughs.  Your colors are bright and clear. : 8)

Im in grade 46.  ;)

Mags
   
Group: Guest
Mags:

The main thing that you saw from me was an honest and realistic appraisal of what I saw.  Show me where I made fun of others.

As far as Romero's version of pulse motor with pick-up coils goes, he's gone because he cheated and the replicators will end up building these "motors" for nothing.  These little pulse motors have been floating around on YouTube since its inception and there is nothing special about them.

These motors do nothing more than move magnets past pick-up coils.  There is absolutely nothing special about this, they are a dime a dozen.  There must be hundreds if not thousands of clips with little motors like this.  All of them obey the law of conservation of energy.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Hey Mh

Ok. Well you made fun of me once that i know in the Rose thread and you made fun of bolt yesterday. I suppose I could load this thread with this stuff, just on rose alone.  Anyway, thats just you.

lets say that I pulled up next to you at a red light, in my 87 Fiero GT.   You would probably assume my lil v6 is a turd.
Then I wail 400 hp, 2 stage nitrous, in yo face.  Ya might say hmmm. Like every one else does at first. then they just gota ask.

I know you think you have all your marbles when you gander at a device, but I bet your not right all the time. Wooptydoo.
And you may be wrong here. You should give yourself some slack. Ya never know dude. but you really think you do.
Most wont take that lightly. Look at the past few pages. Just you and US.  O0

And your question on the asymmetrical.   In this case it has to do with the mags being of even no. and the coils being of odd no.

Lets say that when a mag is approaching the coil/core, that there may be some repulsion due to the bias mag. But a few coils away, there is a mag leaving a coil/core. It evens things out compared to even no. mags and coils. This helps. Maybe not for a mag motor or other mech perps.

And maybe the bias mag also nulls the attraction of the rotor mag to the cores some. This helps

Anyway, Im not really wanting a fight. Just constructive discussions. I think we can have that. If you cant and need to ad lib beyond those parameters, Ill be cool and just see the constructive part of what you post and ignore the other. It works for me.

Ok MH  its been real. And I know you enjoy it.  :-*

Gotta get to sleep.  Ill do some testing this week and Ill put it on the table and we can talk.

Mags
   
Group: Guest
Magluvin:

I can't remember what I said about you and I wasn't making "fun" of Bolt, it was a warning.  I probably made a comment about your drama about the discharging inductor stuff that had your head spinning.  Don't you think now that you went a bit overboard?

Look, let's suppose I am right.  That means that Romero is a bad guy, and some people with limited funds will squander their money instead of spending it more wisely, like on their children.  It's f*cked up.  I will guesstimate that about fifteen thousand dollars will be squandered chasing after Romero's pipe dream (50 x $300).

The comments about the MIB and all that stuff blow my mind.  That's nothing but a demonstration about how gullible people can be.  Like, did Bedini get roughed up by the Feds and as a result only sells battery chargers instead of selling over unity devices?  That's just manufactured nonsense to keep the "Bedini buzz" going.  Bringing it back here, some Joe Blow makes a spinny thingy that moves magnets past coils and the Feds are after him?  He was bought off?  He might already have been killed?  That is just ridiculous nonsense that belongs with the "Face on Mars" people.  You see it because you want to see it.

Forgetting about all of the side-shows, let's bring it back to the Romero motor.

Can somebody tell me why they think this motor works with a technical explanation?  Keep this in mind:  You go to Radio Shack and you buy a spool of magnet wire and you buy a magnet.  You put the spool of wire on your desk and you hook up a resistor to it.  You take the magnet in your hand and wave it past the spool of wire.

The Romero motor and the spool of wire with the magnet waving in your hand are for all practical intents and purposes identical in function.

So I am asking for anybody to give me a technical explanation as to why the Romero motor is an over unity device.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Ex,  

do you want a spanking too?  What is your guys problem?   He has shown you FACTS and OBSERVATIONS.  He has MEASURED for you the Input power and the Output power and you have OBSERVED if you watched the video.  So what faith are you talking about, you don't trust your eyeballs?  And why is the measurement not good? Because it shows almost twice the power out?  And you can't handle that?  

EM


Appearance from videos is not enough, flaws in measurements are usual, scams are always possible, we are very far from being able to affirm conclusive facts.
For 10 or 20 years, hundreds of "inventors" already showed the same "facts" as Romerouk and we have not yet a working machine. I'm always astonished by all the gullible people not able to retain the lessons of the past and skipping about by pavlovian reflex each time they see a video and hear the good word: "over unity". They should duplicate the perpetual machine and speak of "facts" only after having themselves observed that it works. In order to duplicate the machine, we need much more matter from the [yet hypothetical] inventor.

   
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