Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion

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Author Topic: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion (Read 5486 times)

Grumpy	Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « on: 2020-02-26, 15:42:47 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	I spent a lot of time reviewing work related to space propulsion that is publicly available, and realized we are not getting off this rock until we have a better understanding of gravity and how it works. Stating that gravity is an accelerating force inherent to matter, or that it is an effect of curved space doesn't explain how this force is created by matter or how space curves. Every source of information on advanced or breakthrough propulsion repeats the same sources, the same concepts, the same problems, and the same failures. Some of them mention the "Horizon Mission Methodology", but without new theories and concepts, they arrive at the same conclusions. After years, nothing is accomplished. So many expensive, complicated experiments with superconductors, more powerful colliders, searching the skies with more powerful telescopes, and the mystery of gravity still persists. What if "gravity" is much simpler than we think it is?

CITFTA	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #1 on: 2020-02-26, 16:06:45 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 770 Believing in something false doesn't make it true.	Hi Grumpy, I have had my own theory about gravity for many years. I have also seen others propose the same idea so I guess I am not the only person that thinks differently. I believe that gravity pushes not pulls. I believe gravity is a force that is present in the space between objects and when a large body blocks that force the resulting force pushes us towards the large body. I also believe that gravity may be the same medium that allows light and other electromagnetic radiation to travel through "empty" space. Just thought I would share my hare-brained ideas. Carroll --------------------------- Just because it is on YouTube does not make it real.

Smudge	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #2 on: 2020-02-26, 16:55:29 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1870	Quote from: Grumpy on 2020-02-26, 15:42:47 I spent a lot of time reviewing work related to space propulsion that is publicly available, and realized we are not getting off this rock until we have a better understanding of gravity and how it works. Stating that gravity is an accelerating force inherent to matter, or that it is an effect of curved space doesn't explain how this force is created by matter or how space curves. Every source of information on advanced or breakthrough propulsion repeats the same sources, the same concepts, the same problems, and the same failures. Some of them mention the "Horizon Mission Methodology", but without new theories and concepts, they arrive at the same conclusions. After years, nothing is accomplished. So many expensive, complicated experiments with superconductors, more powerful colliders, searching the skies with more powerful telescopes, and the mystery of gravity still persists. What if "gravity" is much simpler than we think it is? Well I have my own views on this based on my studies of gyroscopes (I corresponded with Prof Laithewaite) and my strong belief that inertia is not an internal property of a body, but is an external force. That means space contains an enormous density of particles whizzing through from all directions at velocity c. These have zero rest mass, but they do have momentum and energy (neutrinos are just such particles). Mass particles have a collision cross section whereby they continually absorb some of these space particles, and being stable they must also emit space particles at the same rate. In so-called "flat space" space particles arrive in equal numbers from all directions, and are emitted equally in all directions, hence there is no overall average force on the body. But the impulsive force associated with each absorption or emission caused by momentum exchange could explain the Heisenberg uncertainty. It only requires the mass property to (a) emit space particles in the direction their were travelling on impact and (b) have a time delay between impact absorption and emission to then have an inertial property whereby acceleration creates an imbalance between average absorption impulses and emission impulses. Thus inertia is an external force coming from those space particles. It is then a simple matter to extend this idea to electromagnetic effects where the space particles have spin (as neutrinos do) and the matter particle exhibiting charge emits its absorbed neutrinos in a direction determined by the spin vector of the neutrino. Note that depending on the velocity vector of the distant emitting source of the received space particle, and the velocity vector of the receiving matter particle, the perceived spin vector of the arriving neutrino can be parallel to the arrival direction or be at an angle to it. This ties electric ant magnetic forces together, both have the same origin with the latter being of order v/c times the former. Finally gravitation can be explained as a sort of shielding effect, but not quite the usual shielding but the shielding mass emits neutrinos with their spin vectors aligned with the emission direction, whereas the background neutrinos arrive with some average transverse spin vector. This creates the attractive force between mass particles. But it all comes down to momentum from absorbed and emitted neutrinos. Smudge

Magluvin	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #3 on: 2020-02-26, 17:54:18 »
Group: Mad Scientist Hero Member Posts: 546	My view on magnetic propulsion is irrelevant of gravity, as to what gravity is. From what I understand is that a magnet is only it ability to distort the fields that are all around us already, as I said earlier in another thread. A magnet doesnt have the ability to provide this propulsion, magnet or electromagnet, because it just polarizes and condenses the fields around it. So there is not actual push/pull force as we are seeking. A magnetic propulsion device needs to be able to actually pull in these fields and actually push them out the other end. Similarly, such a device should be able to generate electricity by physically moving it through these already existing fields. Possibly, as to produce propulsion I believe we would need to supply electrical energy to the device in order to create motive force. So this gathering of fields in the front of the device and pushing them out the back needs to, similarly to a fan and air, decompress the density of the fields in the front and pressurize them in the rear. Where a magnet/electromagnet just condenses these fields, not causing a pressure, or decompression at either end, thus providing no motive force. So we would need to use that compressing action of say an electromagnets, and then a way to decompress at the other end. Somehow. Mags

Grumpy	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #4 on: 2020-02-26, 20:49:41 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	If we use the "Horizon Mission Methodology" approach, summarized here: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.860.6656&rep=rep1&type=pdf Horizon Mission Methodology (HMM) HMM is a relatively new procedure in which new technological approaches areexplored through a technique that forces out-of-the-box thinking. The participants assume that they are living in some future time during which some breakthrough technology is being used. They are then asked to project backwards toward the present and speculate on the genesis of this technology. This approach offers the possibility of minimizing con-formist thinking and promotes the development of imaginative concepts. The NationalAeronautics and Space Administration (NASA) has used this approach in seeking new concepts for propulsion for space travel. Air Force-sponsored and other studies have also incorporated a broad HMM concept. Taking into account the human limitation mentioned here: https://ntrs.nasa.gov/search.jsp?R=19930047019 (part of the abstract of this paper) The Horizon Mission (HM) methodology was developed to provide a means of identifying and evaluating highly innovative, breakthrough technology concepts (BTCs) and for assessing their potential impact on advanced space missions. The methodology is based on identifying new capabilities needed by hypothetical 'horizon' space missions having performance requirements that cannot be met even by extrapolating known space technologies. *Normal human evaluation of new ideas such as BTCs appears to be governed (and limited) by 'inner models of reality' defined as paradigms. Thus, new ideas are evaluated by old models.* [/i][/b] We assume we can create and utilize an accelerating force field, like gravity, to propel our craft through space. Lacking much else to go on, we can factor in the properties of unconventional craft that Paul Hill mentions i his book. I.E. Accelertaing force field, the field rotates, and there is indication of a 5kHz pulse rate. The breakthrough(s) may not come from established experts, but may be found by experimenters, or anyone that noticed some connection between things that others overlooked. Less power is required than currently proposed systems, like the Alcubierre Drive. The force field effect is undeniable, orders of magnitude larger than current experiments and speculations. Gravity is inherently produced by matter, as indicated by a improved atomic model. A gravity-like accelerating force can be produced and controlled electromagnetically, as indicated by a theory that unifies all fields of force. The power supply for the accelerating field is either highly efficient, or requires no fuel, and probably works on similar principles as the field drive. That's a lot of speculation, but that is what is required.

Grumpy	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #5 on: 2020-02-26, 21:33:59 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Quote from: Grumpy on 2020-02-26, 20:49:41 Lacking much else to go on, we can factor in the properties of unconventional craft that Paul Hill mentions i his book. I.E. Accelertaing force field, the field rotates, and there is indication of a 5kHz pulse rate. Does this seem very coincidental to anyone else? That's right! The Steven Mark TPU has these same features (accelerating field oriented circumferentially, 5kHz, and rotating field). « Last Edit: 2020-02-26, 22:32:20 by Grumpy »

Cortazar	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #6 on: 2020-02-26, 21:54:09 »
Newbie Posts: 11	Quote from: Smudge on 2020-02-26, 16:55:29 Well I have my own views on this based on my studies of gyroscopes (I corresponded with Prof Laithewaite) and my strong belief that inertia is not an internal property of a body, but is an external force. That means space contains an enormous density of particles whizzing through from all directions at velocity c. These have zero rest mass, but they do have momentum and energy (neutrinos are just such particles). Mass particles have a collision cross section whereby they continually absorb some of these space particles, and being stable they must also emit space particles at the same rate. In so-called "flat space" space particles arrive in equal numbers from all directions, and are emitted equally in all directions, hence there is no overall average force on the body. But the impulsive force associated with each absorption or emission caused by momentum exchange could explain the Heisenberg uncertainty. It only requires the mass property to (a) emit space particles in the direction their were travelling on impact and (b) have a time delay between impact absorption and emission to then have an inertial property whereby acceleration creates an imbalance between average absorption impulses and emission impulses. Thus inertia is an external force coming from those space particles. It is then a simple matter to extend this idea to electromagnetic effects where the space particles have spin (as neutrinos do) and the matter particle exhibiting charge emits its absorbed neutrinos in a direction determined by the spin vector of the neutrino. Note that depending on the velocity vector of the distant emitting source of the received space particle, and the velocity vector of the receiving matter particle, the perceived spin vector of the arriving neutrino can be parallel to the arrival direction or be at an angle to it. This ties electric ant magnetic forces together, both have the same origin with the latter being of order v/c times the former. Finally gravitation can be explained as a sort of shielding effect, but not quite the usual shielding but the shielding mass emits neutrinos with their spin vectors aligned with the emission direction, whereas the background neutrinos arrive with some average transverse spin vector. This creates the attractive force between mass particles. But it all comes down to momentum from absorbed and emitted neutrinos. Smudge Hello Smudge and all. I think this deserves attention. https://physicsfromtheedge.blogspot.com/2018/ It explains inertia, it eliminates the need for dark matter, it explains the Emdrive, it has been published and peer reviewed, apparently independent experiments in German and Spanish Universities have shown positive results, and it is OU. Regards Cortazar

Grumpy	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #7 on: 2020-02-26, 22:34:36 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	the latest test of the EM Drive is that it doesn't seem to work: https://www.newscientist.com/article/2169809-impossible-em-drive-doesnt-seem-to-work-after-all/

Grumpy	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #8 on: 2020-02-27, 00:31:34 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	In the attached paper by Marc Millis (of the Tau Zero Foundation, and NASA Breakthrough Propulsion Physics) talks about the many issues with a menas of propulsion that reacts against "space". He focuses on the rational behind these objections. ------------------------ Milis concept of space coupling propulsion 19910012848.pdf (1164.75 kB - downloaded 224 times.)

Grumpy	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #9 on: 2020-02-27, 17:19:09 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	The objections that Millis discusses are: 1. Violation of conservation of momentum (no reaction mass) 2. there is nothing in the vacuum of space to push against 3. No “Grand Unification Theories” linking gravity to other fundamental forces enabling control of gravity, such as electrodynamics It's my understanding that an accelerating force field would not need a reaction mass. Paul Hill somehow concluded that UFO's focus their accelerating force field when not near the earth. Whether or not they are able to push on "space" is still undetermined, but they sure move fast. Willie Johnson's GFT claims to be a UFT, there are a couple others floating around but I'm not familair with them.

Grumpy	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #10 on: 2020-02-27, 17:49:53 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Millis makes the following interesting comments regarding conservation of momentum and reacting against "space": Continuing with these speculative perspectives, forces could be induced relative to inertial frames if it were possible for a vehicle to alter its gravitational field distribution or its connectivity to its own inertial frame. By redistributing its own gravitational field, it could, in effect, create a local asymmetric acceleration field. The reaction forces would be imparted to the "stiff" inertial frame and subsequently to their source matter (figure 3). This is similar to the special case in the concept of negative mass propulsion where there is more normal mass than negative mass. In this case the non-zero momentum of the vehicle would be balanced by the equal and opposite momentum of the inertial space and its associated matter. Maybe this is why UFO's focus their accelrating force field, creating a local assymetrical acceleration field. So, we have enough to look past the objections for now.

Grumpy	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #11 on: 2020-02-27, 18:01:33 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Millis goes on to list 4 possible avenues for Inducing Acceleration Effects via Intermediary Phenomena: In addition to the perspective of inducing forces from the simple motion of matter, there is the perspective of using some intermediary phenomena to induce effects. This means finding some controllable phenomena that is related with the phenomena of gravity, and using this control phenomena to indirectly induce gravitational effects. An example of this intermediary principle is the way that microwaves (electrodynamics) are used to induce molecular vibrations (heat). With respect to space coupling propulsion, the prime intermediary phenomena is electrodynamics. Various approaches to correlate gravity to other phenomena are briefly reviewed below and include: (1) General Relativity's connection between inertial frames and gravity as referenced by electrodynamics (2) Gravity as an index of refraction for electrodynamics (3) Gravity as a Zero Point Energy effect (4) The hypercharge force. Millis is not familar with the GFT and it's approach is more direct and fairly easy to experiment with. In a nut shell, the GFT states that gravity is result of the precession of an axially rotating magnetic field, and goes on to prove this mathematically.

Grumpy	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #12 on: 2020-03-03, 15:43:14 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	So, IF gravity is result of the precession of an axially rotating magnetic field, how can we prove this? Well, it can be done mechanically, or electrically. Eectrically is as complex as the AVEC (spherics) TPU, so let's look at mechanical solutions. You could just make a top out of a magnet and spin it, but any effect, if there even is one, is likely so small that it is not detectable. There is a law in the GFT that gives the force of the gravity-like field and it is based on the rotational speed, the strength of the magne, and strength of the force producing the precession. In the case of a spinning top, the rotational speed is slow, the magnet is small, and the force producing he precession is gravity (also kinda weak). We can't replace the force of gravity with another magnetic field because the top is free to flip round and align with the other field. Might get something with a gram scale, and a pull-string top with a magnet added. We could drive a magnet on a shaft, but it needs to be able to precess, so we'll need a spherical bearing. To drive hrough the spherical bearing requires modifiying it to pin the inner race to the outer race, and a slot inside the inner race. Then the driveshaft has to slide apart to allow it to rise up, else we have the weigh the whole thing and the motor makes that a problem. We can add a magnetic feld via a coil outside for the force to replace gravity. This will work as proof of concept. Doing it electrically opens the door for many possibilities, and for focusing of the field.

Magluvin	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #13 on: 2020-03-04, 17:41:51 »
Group: Mad Scientist Hero Member Posts: 546	Quote from: Grumpy on 2020-03-03, 15:43:14 So, IF gravity is result of the precession of an axially rotating magnetic field, how can we prove this? Well, it can be done mechanically, or electrically. Eectrically is as complex as the AVEC (spherics) TPU, so let's look at mechanical solutions. You could just make a top out of a magnet and spin it, but any effect, if there even is one, is likely so small that it is not detectable. There is a law in the GFT that gives the force of the gravity-like field and it is based on the rotational speed, the strength of the magne, and strength of the force producing the precession. In the case of a spinning top, the rotational speed is slow, the magnet is small, and the force producing he precession is gravity (also kinda weak). We can't replace the force of gravity with another magnetic field because the top is free to flip round and align with the other field. Might get something with a gram scale, and a pull-string top with a magnet added. We could drive a magnet on a shaft, but it needs to be able to precess, so we'll need a spherical bearing. To drive hrough the spherical bearing requires modifiying it to pin the inner race to the outer race, and a slot inside the inner race. Then the driveshaft has to slide apart to allow it to rise up, else we have the weigh the whole thing and the motor makes that a problem. We can add a magnetic feld via a coil outside for the force to replace gravity. This will work as proof of concept. Doing it electrically opens the door for many possibilities, and for focusing of the field. Could use ceramic bearings Expensive but worth it for tests like these. While working on the whipmags back in the days, the bearings we used for the stators caused some issues with drag, but ceramics were very expensive then. But a sphere mag in a concave mirror and a bit of oil is very drag free. Like the lidmotors way back Mags

Grumpy	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #14 on: 2020-03-04, 19:10:48 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	The bearing has to be modified so it can transmit the rotation of the shaft to the magnet, but also allow the magnet to pivot so it can precess. Like I mentioned, doing this mechanically I difficult and frought with problems.

Grumpy	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #15 on: 2020-03-05, 16:01:45 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	I found a nice metal top with a pull string and ordered it. Once I have it, I'll measure the hub and get a magnet that will fit to test it on my gram scale. I don;t expect to see anything but it's easy enough to try an experiment. The rotating and pulsed features of the accelerating field, as deduced by Paul Hill regarding UFO propulsion, coincides somewhat with commment made by Stephan Marinov. See attached. ------------------------ magvid.pdf (270.5 kB - downloaded 317 times.)

Grumpy	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #16 on: 2020-03-09, 21:16:18 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	One of the most interesting ideas in the "magvid" pdf is Marinov's explanation of FTL communication. Sounds like he's saying to alter the permittivity and permeability of space, to reduce these constants, increasing the speed of light. He also says that this is one of the effects produced by the magvid device.

Chet K	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #17 on: 2020-03-21, 01:15:37 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4015	Grumpy Here a very smart fellow is open sourcing a build he is planning [seems a big build] http://www.energeticforum.com/forum/energetic-forum-discussion/renewable-energy/14472-an-inquiry-into-magvid#post497092

russwr	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #18 on: 2021-12-19, 03:08:55 »
Jr. Member Posts: 79	Control Of The Ether (Matter And Energy) During 1875-1899 By John W. Keely Lots of old documents available, especially from SVP and Mr. Pond about Keely's physics/ frequency research and experiments. He used array of tuning forks hooked to thermocouples and thermopiles of silver, gold, and Platinum wires. The nodes created upper inharmonics that can affect matter, especially if using thirds harmonics. Some of the best reprinted references are:-- Dashed Against The Rock, The Snell Manuscript, Keely And His Discoveries, Free Energy Pioneer, and others. Mass to energy, water decomposed to 3 levels, self running brass machines, gravity nullification of heavy steel and brass masses with acoustic vibration frequency inharmonics, high lift water pump means, magnetism, rotation , 51 inches vacuum generation, 23,000 lbs pressure generation in 15 seconds as checked on warehouse weigh scales and negative leverage arm lift of hydraulic cylinder . Hydrogen gas also generated. Improved optical microscope built. Over 100 devices built and tested in his machine shop in Philadelphia, Pa. 90% of investor's funds went into shop work. The keely Motor Company was about 5 Million dollars in the 1800's. The public literature has the case listed as fraud, however. His free energy brass machine with 50 lbs internal pressure from water hammer shock vibrations, turned the flywheel which would saw wood chunks upon demonstrations. The Patent application was refused because the investor's names were not on it. Have you heard of Keely?

russwr	Re: Gravity-Like Accelerating Fields, Propulsion « Reply #19 on: 2021-12-19, 03:34:13 »
Jr. Member Posts: 79	Years ago, there was a You tube video for about 2 months , before it shut down! It showed thermocouple placed on sensitive digital weight scale. With power applied the mass lost weight. This is in reference to OTHER technicians who did similar gravity control means. French story that was converted by Bablefish to English, showed open frame dirigible with dual large sandwich metal plates mounted at both ends. The units were hooked to wires to onboard frequency generator. The craft lifted and floated. AN on board large fan hooked to gas engine moved craft to next town. John Keely in about 1892 Philadelphia, experimented with tonnage metal frame that lifted upwards, then slowly settled down to floor. There were 3 spinning brass flywheel SIRENS set to motion by compressed air. 2 were slowed to sound harmonic ratio so as affecting mass, then gravity nullified. He did the same with thermopiles hooked to 2 ton sphere pressure tank., with activation from array of tuning forks. It was said in the old writings that Keely got the earth frequency from Tesla. Tesla didn't like Keely, since Keely received more investors money than he did.

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