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OverUnity Research > General - Free Energy Related > Miscellaneous Discussions (Moderator: Allcanadian) > Alexander Graham Bell's overunity patent
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img  Orthofield
Alexander Graham Bell's overunity patent « on: 2019-03-29, 17:05:58 »
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Hi All,

While looking for some patents on Google Patents I realized that the advanced search feature allowed me to apply EU and WO classifications to US patents. Since the EU and world systems have a classification for "alleged perpetuum mobilia" this allows me (or you) to search for US patents that have been classed as overunity by the world patent system. It turns out there are 717 US patents that are seen as OU by international classification. This is interesting in itself, but the very first and oldest patent really struck me. It is from Alexander Graham Bell! US181553, "Generating Electric Currents" describes a bar magnet rotated on its axis with a spring contact touching the center line of the magnet. When rotated, a galvanometer registered a current. He apparently used this device to power some of his early telegraphy experiments, according to a brief mention in his monograph, "The Multiple Telegraph".  I can only speculate as to why the world patent organizations decided to call this a perpetual motion machine. Bell doesn't discuss any drag on the rotating magnet. An interesting feature is that the axle that the magnet is turning on is connected to ground on both ends.
Fred
   
img  partzman
Re: Alexander Graham Bell's overunity patent « Reply #1 on: 2019-03-29, 18:06:15 »
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Quote from: orthofield on 2019-03-29, 17:05:58
Hi All,

While looking for some patents on Google Patents I realized that the advanced search feature allowed me to apply EU and WO classifications to US patents. Since the EU and world systems have a classification for "alleged perpetuum mobilia" this allows me (or you) to search for US patents that have been classed as overunity by the world patent system. It turns out there are 717 US patents that are seen as OU by international classification. This is interesting in itself, but the very first and oldest patent really struck me. It is from Alexander Graham Bell! US181553, "Generating Electric Currents" describes a bar magnet rotated on its axis with a spring contact touching the center line of the magnet. When rotated, a galvanometer registered a current. He apparently used this device to power some of his early telegraphy experiments, according to a brief mention in his monograph, "The Multiple Telegraph".  I can only speculate as to why the world patent organizations decided to call this a perpetual motion machine. Bell doesn't discuss any drag on the rotating magnet. An interesting feature is that the axle that the magnet is turning on is connected to ground on both ends.
Fred

Welcome back Fred!  O0

Pm
   
img  Orthofield
Re: Alexander Graham Bell's overunity patent « Reply #2 on: 2019-03-29, 18:33:34 »
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Thanks! Good to be back :)

Oh I forgot to mention, if someone wants to look for themselves, the world patent overunity classes are H02K53/00, and also H02N11/00 (although the later class also includes thermoelectric generators, antigravity/electric thrust devices and a few other things). There are about 7,000 patents in these two classes.
Fred
   
img  Smudge
Re: Alexander Graham Bell's overunity patent « Reply #3 on: 2019-03-30, 14:40:21 »

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That generator is simply another form of the homopolar type.  Whereas the classic homopolar generator uses a disc with magnetic field lines passing through it, Bell's generator uses a cylinder with field lines passing through it radially.  Both use classic v x B induction.  And just as the disc can be part of the magnet, so can the cylinder.
Smudge
   
img  ion
Re: Alexander Graham Bell's overunity patent « Reply #4 on: 2019-03-30, 15:15:50 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Quote from: Smudge on 2019-03-30, 14:40:21
That generator is simply another form of the homopolar type.  Whereas the classic homopolar generator uses a disc with magnetic field lines passing through it, Bell's generator uses a cylinder with field lines passing through it radially.  Both use classic v x B induction.  And just as the disc can be part of the magnet, so can the cylinder.
Smudge

Hi Orthofield and Smudge;

You will also find this arrangement in very old books on electromagnetics depicted as a lab experiment. It can be operated as a motor or generator. Usually in those books, a "U" shaped trough is filled with mercury to create a slip ring for the center contact portion. I thought it was interesting so built and tested one of these many decades ago. Also tried the high current ball bearing motor.

Thanks for the AGBell patent, it was interesting to note the series connection of a number of devices for higher voltage output.

Regards


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Orthofield
Re: Alexander Graham Bell's overunity patent « Reply #5 on: 2019-03-30, 15:38:04 »
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Hi Smudge, Ion,

Yes it did look similar to a homopolar machine, which is why I thought it was odd that the EU classed it as a free energy device. Of course, homopolar machines have been claimed to be OU-- remember Tewari and Depalma? For what it's worth, the US patent office classes it 310/152, "permanent magnet machines", which is a catch all class for oddball generators w/ permanent magnets, while Homopolar machines are 310/178-- so neither US nor WO patent offices saw it as a homopolar generator for some reason. Mildly interesting...not much there, there...
Fred
   
img  ion
Re: Alexander Graham Bell's overunity patent « Reply #6 on: 2019-03-30, 16:25:19 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Hi Fred

The problem I found with Terawi and possibly? DePalma was in the way they measured the expected power of the device.

First they noted the open circuit voltage, then they multiplied by the shorted circuit current to arrive at the expected power output.
Clearly this is wrong (and an error many make) as the voltage will drop quite a bit under short circuit conditions. They needed to actually note the power under an actual reasonable load for such a low impedance device, measuring voltage under the reasonable (impedance matched) load, then multiplying by current into the load.

The only real salvation for such devices would be if they did not develop normally expected back torque (Lenz), then we might have a gain, but as far as I know this has not been demonstrated. Fun to play with, nevertheless.  :)

Regards


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
img  Orthofield
Re: Alexander Graham Bell's overunity patent « Reply #7 on: 2019-03-30, 16:33:56 »
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Thanks, I knew Tewari and Depalma's machines had fallen by the wayside, but didn't remember why..
F
   
img  F6FLT
Re: Alexander Graham Bell's overunity patent « Reply #8 on: 2019-04-05, 10:11:43 »
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Quote from: ion on 2019-03-30, 16:25:19
...
First they noted the open circuit voltage, then they multiplied by the shorted circuit current to arrive at the expected power output.
Clearly this is wrong...

Clearly  ;) ;D
"The universal matter is created out of prana since prana is aakaash in motion, and aakaash is the primordial superfluid substratum of the universe."
Paramahamsa Tewari

How can such people who talk such nonsense be taken seriously, even by their governments? This guy was Executive Director of Nuclear Power Corporation of India, it's scary.

I read elsewhere:
"India will not remove the Tewari free energy generator despite threats from the United Kingdom, the United States, and Saudi Arabia." C.C One more allegation of a conspiracy theory, that could explain why we will never see this machine working.

I had been hearing about Tewari for a long time, had tried to understand what he was talking about but had not found any indication of a new and solid idea, it was very vague. At least 10 years later, since nothing has come out of his assumptions, we can turn the page. What a waste of time, we spend your time either believing or debunking.


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"Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"
   
img  F6FLT
Re: Alexander Graham Bell's overunity patent « Reply #9 on: 2019-04-05, 10:48:13 »
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Quote from: orthofield on 2019-03-30, 16:33:56
Thanks, I knew Tewari and Depalma's machines had fallen by the wayside, but didn't remember why..
F

From what I read a long time ago, these were measurement errors. If Depalma was as competent in experimentation as in theory, it is not surprising:
"As is well known, Lenz's Law applies to the forces which are generated between a current carrying wire moving in the vicinity of a magnetic pole wherein the current through the wire is the resultant of the electrical potential generated by the motion of said wire being applied to an external load."
Bruce Depalma
Wrong. The author has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. Lenz's law simply gives the direction of the induced EMF caused by a change in magnetic flux.


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"Open your mind, but not like a trash bin"
   
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