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Author Topic: Experiments and Anomalies  (Read 133201 times)

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Anyone ever read over Hertz original experiments where he discovered EM waves and attributed them to Maxwell's theory? 

He talked about two different effects that could be detected: one from a wire and the other from the oscillator (the capacitive plates on both sides of the spark gap.  Early spark gap wireless telegraphs used large capacitive plates much like a crude Tesla coil.  This all changed when they strove for continuous wave transmission and transmission of information.  Those early spark gap transmitters were on and off with coherers for detectors.

Anyway, reading over all this historical stuff, I believe Tesla was correct when he told, and showed, Hertz he had detected longitudinal electric waves.  I think this is what Joseph Henry, Elihu Thomson, and even Thomas Edison had all discovered as well. 

Then it was all lost in the rapid rise of industrialization.

   
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@PhysicsProf

It's good of LS to have lent you his circuit. I would like to know, since you see 30 vpp at microamps, I am thinking that the capacitor of 3600uF 10vdc (if I am not mistaken) is probably to big. Maybe better and longer run times could be had with three 1200uF but rated at 3-4 volts in parallel to achieve the same 3600uF but at a much lower rated value, this could be better as this would be much closer to the rms value of the circuit.

I am thinking that part of that recharge energy is lost in such a big capacitor.

wattsup

 


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Thanks for comments, ION and Wattsup.  I'll pass these along to LS, for when he returns from a "short" vacation.
It was kind of him to let me have a look -- NO tricks like a super-cap lurking somewhere. 

I will do a little more playing, as he sent a second device - same ckt - but with a transformer from a disposable camera.  Again, everything soldered in place.  He works with tiny wires...  ;)   I'll see if I can do some measurements without blowing THIS transistor.
   
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Here is a link showing the apparatus...

http://www.newscotland1398.net/nfld1901/marconi-nfld.html

Almost all of the early experimenters used capacitive plates as the radiative elements instead of wire aerials.

   

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I'll stick to investigating Tariels device and SM's device, its a long shot but better odds.

How is your work on these devices progressing?

   
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LaserSaber pointed out to me a very interesting article published in the peer-reviewed journal, Physical Review Letters, one of the premier journals of physics.  Note that an LED efficiency of 230% is observed.

Below is a summary published by PhysOrg.  More here: http://phys.org/news/2012-03-efficiency.html
   
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LaserSaber pointed out to me a very interesting article published in the peer-reviewed journal, Physical Review Letters, one of the premier journals of physics.  Note that an LED efficiency of 230% is observed.

Below is a summary published by PhysOrg.  More here: http://phys.org/news/2012-03-efficiency.html

In regards to LEDs, if you connect many of them in series and power on from BEMF charged (in my case 4300uF - 3300+1000) electrolytic capacitors, the power consumption observed for 7x 1W LEDs ( http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/10x-50x-1W-3W-LED-Bright-High-Power-Bead-Emitters-Diodes-Lamp-Epistar-Bulb-/161261720748 ) in my observation was about 0.1W to 0.2W (12.5V 0.125-0.25A in PS meter) to get them fully lit.... ;)
Also the circuit needs to be adjusted to switch off generator as soon as output capacitor reaches certain voltage level.

This comes from akula 30W LED flashlight circuit error fixing and practical test - http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2358.msg38899#msg38899

Cheers!
« Last Edit: 2014-05-24, 17:42:32 by T-1000 »
   
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  Video showing a recent (puzzling) experiment:   http://youtu.be/gRigG687ies 
   
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 Video showing a recent (puzzling) experiment:   http://youtu.be/gRigG687ies  

Yes, that's interesting.
Does your AC voltage detector respond in that way when you bring it near the scope probe's "ground" reference clip? I was hoping you'd try that in the video.

The thought occurred to me that you may have a ground fault in your wiring. Do you happen to have an outlet ground fault checker that you could use to test your outlets? Something like this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/381141638686?lpid=82&chn=ps

I should think that if your coils are picking up the 60 (or 50) Hz signal from your house wiring that you would be able to see this with proper settings of the oscilloscope. You may be interested in watching my short video on that topic:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spGpBz4K8rU


Whatever you do, do _NOT_ try "scoping the mains" directly with your scope! To do that safely you need to take some special precautions.
   
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It's turtles all the way down
 Video showing a recent (puzzling) experiment:   http://youtu.be/gRigG687ies  

The waveform on the scope looks like EMI from either fluorescent lights such as CFL's or other long tube solid state ballasts or could be any plug in power supply e.g for a laptop computer etc

Best to make a sniffer coil to probe around and find the source of the high EMI. Surely there is a switched mode power device nearby. Your large coils are probably stepping up ambient EMI to a level high enough to trigger your AC sniffer wand. A load resistor on the coil leads e.g. 100 ohms should reduce the output of the coil by loading it. Then with the load you can also calculate how much power is being oicked up.....it will be very small.

Note also that a lot of Chinese equipment does not have internal EMI filtering on the line side such as common mode chokes and line rated capacitors to ground. Such equipment radiates rather badly and does not have FCC approvals stickers or have not passed EMI emission standards. These expensive components are often eliminated from the design to certain markets for economic reasons..


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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  On to another development - this one has "buoyancy" devices for sale AND a live demonstration in Germany.. Along TinMans line perhaps?
  Is it for real?


Quote
Quote
     From: Roberto Reuter 
    To: Sterling Allan 
    Sent: Friday, April 24, 2015 12:55 AM [MDT]
    Subject: Re: need help with KPP buoyancy device skepticism


    Dear Sterling, 

    While I am waiting on my flight, let me try to explain a very important thing: 

    Whatever theories telling you, the KPP does not or could not work - are wrong, because it does. To understand this is maybe the biggest issue within this whole project. 

    The upcoming next days will be the very first beginning of the practical proof.

    We do not argue with math nor physics concepts anymore, we show it works - that's much more.

    I hope you can understand that.

    ..another quick answer: No external power in. currently 4.8 kW power out

    with best Regards from Roberto 


TWIFE™ Featuring SHT 900x replicas and Rosch KPP

    Featured: News > This Week in Free Energy™ >
    TWIFE™ Featuring SHT 900x replicas and Rosch KPP - GAIA demonstrating 5 kW home power Rosch KPP prototype; 100 MW total KPP in operation • Tewari's RLG prepping for commercial roll-out • Wasif Kahloon demo pending • Perendev scam • QEG Manual Update • Rawlemon's Spherical Solar Generator • Stockton smart meters explode from surge • Engineered Drought in Calif. (FreeEnergyNews; April 23, 2015)

Part II: Gaia-Energy demonstrating 5 kW home power Rosch KPP prototype in Germany; taking orders

    Featured: Buoyancy > Rosch Innovations AG >
    Part II: GAIA demonstrating 5 kW home power Rosch KPP prototype in Germany; taking orders - From April 25 - May 6, GAIA will be demonstrating a 5 kilowatt version of Rosch' technology that harnesses power of rising floats using pressurized air, which then descend after the air escapes above the water chamber. They will be making 500 units in their first round, half of which are already sold. (PESN; April 22, 2015)

Part I: 100 MW total Rosch Thrust Kinetic Generators in operation

    Featured: Buoyancy > Rosch Innovations AG >
    Part I: 100 MW total Rosch Thrust Kinetic Generators in operation - Technology harnesses power of rising floats using pressurized air, which then descend after the air escapes above the water chamber. 5 MW, 40 MW and 100 MW power plant designs targeted for utilities. Media, industry, and public demonstrations scheduled for May. Energy price is 2x better than solar or wind. (PESN; April 22, 2015)

Plexiglas Demo at Autumn Fair 2014

Here's a video showing them demonstrating their Plexiglas see-through version at a trade show. It shows the inner workings of how the compressed air fitting lines up with the rotating floats. Note that the apparatus is on wheels, which rules out hidden wires from under the device. (The April 25 - May 6, 2015 demo will not be Plexiglas, as it is a production prototype for what will be installed for kit sales for the production of power.)

    Project AuKW - buoyant power plant link (YouTube; September 26, 2014)

Continuation

    http://www.gaia-energy.org - Official blog

See also

    Directory:Thrust_Kinetic_Generator_by_Rosch_Innovations_AG
    Directory:Gaia-Energy -- Global Association for Independent Energy & Altruism
    Directory:Buoyancy | News:Buoyancy


   
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http://gaia-energy.org/es-ist-soweit-mach-dich-energieautark/

I'm finding mostly German...

Here's a PESN write-up, English:

http://pesn.com/2015/04/22/9602607_100-MW-total_Rosch-Thrust-Kinetic-Generators_in_operation/

 Does anyone know if there is a possibility to build a small test device on these principles?  or are these "proprietary secrets"?
   

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Steven this was first done in Australia, Ash did post this Australian design some years back on EF.

I think it has merit, why, well who would spend such a large amount of money on something that does not work!!!!!

I would think that water pressure from depth comes into play here, just maybe that is the excess needed to make it run, the idea is cool and simple to test, though the depth might be an item that is needed to make it work and as so more difficult to build ( unless you have a deep well!).

The delta pressure between depth of water (pressure) and atmospheric air pressure, is quite an energy item :)  If air is pumped to replace the water in the inverted cups (not really tanks) at the bottom of the circuit, the delta P will do the rest ???

The bottom of the cups would have several flap valves "rubber" to let the water in on the downward stroke side "zero delta P" and close on the air pressure upward side, air displacing the water, closing the valves and creating a huge positive delta P, and away she goes to try and equal the pressures.

Now I ask the question, what laws are broken here?

Conservation of energy? compresser energy to replace the water with air? that is the question

regards

Mike 8)


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Dear Mike.

I have to agree with you, a similar principle has been in use for many years, the Air lift pump. Because water cannot be drawn by vacuum from a depth greater than 28 feet early water pumps used compressed air to raise water to the surface.

A simple proof of concept could be built using a Bicycle wheel with suitably shaped cups ( conical?) , no need for valves if you think about it, the top of the cup will be open as it enters the water. I can see this concept working quite well as in an enclosed environment the water that surrounds the device would also rotate in the same direction, aiding the overall effect.

Just some simple musings.  :)

Cheers Grum.


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  Thanks for comments.

More from PESN:

Quote
Since this last Saturday, they have had their first "serial series" 5 kW (home power) prototype running, continuously. As of this morning (MDT), it has now produced more than 200 kW-h of power. They have had no glitches in its operation so far.

They call it the AUKW, short for AuftriebsKraftwerk; translated, that means: buoyancy power plant. It stands 5 meters tall with a base of one square meter. (See photo gallery below.)

Starting this next Saturday, April 25 until May 6, GAIA will be doing a public demonstration of the AUKW prototype at Brüssler Strasse 15, 53841 Troisdorf (next to Cologne airport), Germany. You can sign up to attend via their website. Prior registration is required, due to limited capacity. They can handle up to 120 visitors per day.

They also plan to have a live stream video available for people to observe via the web. Here's a promotional video about their upcoming demonstration:

The production prototype is self-sustaining (no input power), with 4.8 kW net output.

http://pesn.com/2015/04/22/9602609_Gaia-Energy_demonstrating_5-kW-home-power_Rosch-KPP-prototype_Germany,_taking-orders/
   
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I am sure most here are aware that TinMan has been building a buoyancy device which seems to have great potential.
He's been trying to ask Mark E for help with calculations ,but there seems to be  a problem with that arrangement.

although  to be honest Brad is well aware that calculations go out the window with the Loop cycle.
   
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Hey Chet

Quote
I am sure most here are aware that TinMan has been building a buoyancy device which seems to have great potential.
He's been trying to ask Mark E for help with calculations ,but there seems to be a problem with that arrangement.

although  to be honest Brad is well aware that calculations go out the window with the Loop cycle.

Unfortunately Mark may be able to tell you why it cannot work by the numbers however he has literally no insight into how it might work nor how we might make it work practically to our benefit. That is why I am here however the first thing that became apparent is the most relevant numbers disclosed. $30,000 for a 5Kw unit works out to $6/watt running 24/7 or 120Kw/hrs per day however I can buy a off the shelf comparable 5Kw solar array including the inverters for $5000.

Now let's throw some relevant numbers at this, there are roughly 8765 hrs in a year thus the device in question may generate 43,825 Kw/hrs annually however it is obviously maintenance intensive and this must be factored in to the $30,000 price. At my location a 5Kw solar installation may generate 12,500 Kw/hrs annually however it has no real maintenance and only costs $5000. Now the more relevant numbers...

Water buoyancy generator :
5Kw @ 8765 hrs = 43,825Kw/hrs annually for $30,000 plus maintenance.

Conventional Solar :
5Kw @ 2500 hrs = 12,500Kw/hrs annually for $5000.

If I buy 6 solar arrays for the same $30,000 then I could generate 30Kw @ 2500hrs annually and generate 75,000Kw/hrs annually which is 1.7 times more Energy than the water generator with basically no maintenance. As well solar cells and the grid tie electronics attached to them are dropping in price at a rapid rate thus any other technology must compete at that level to remain relevant. Now some might argue the cost of solar shown here is too low however 6 months ago I did a cost estimate for a third party and in fact the price of solar minus installation costs is already a $1/watt and dropping. Keep in mind I did not consider local sources which were as high as $16/watt thus all were immediately discounted and global sources were found. As always any installation is location specific and in my case solar is by far the better option.


Thus this technology is already nearly twice as expensive as some conventional energy sources such as solar/micro-hydro and it hasn't even really been proven yet. The key word here is "Practical" and while I think these devices are really neat an electrodynamic motionless generator would render them a mute point before the first one ever left the factory. The other option is a DIY unit which is why I think most of us are here and I will have to do some more research although I think I have a very good idea of exaclty what they are doing here.

AC
« Last Edit: 2015-04-26, 17:16:47 by Allcanadian »


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“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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One strong solar storm and all solar panels connected to grid are useless.
   

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Hi Graham

Will need the rubber flap valve or the cup will be like a boat, with the valve the boat sinks ;D  no buoyancy ;)

You can see these in the photos, series of round holes. I can't see how they enter the air into the "drums in their case", a bit of an engineers nightmare if each has a pipe feed.

I would just have an air outlet at the bottom of the tank, maybe they tried that and it did not work :-\

regards

Mike 8)


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"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
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Doh !!   ;D

True, they would float until being drawn under !! A loss there for sure !!

It seems there is now a lot of talk about the device being a fake !! Time will tell, I guess.

Cheers Grum.


---------------------------
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Doh !!   ;D

True, they would float until being drawn under !! A loss there for sure !!

It seems there is now a lot of talk about the device being a fake !! Time will tell, I guess.

Cheers Grum.

Graham, that's one very expensive fake :D

On the latest link "PESN", I now see how they enter the air O0

14,000€ including 20% tax (5kw) is not bad, and yes we could build it for half the price or less, say 5000€.

Cologne is a 2 hour flight for me, if my costs were met I would go on a one day round trip, about 1000€ or less, have not looked at flight costs.

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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Quote
Since this last Saturday, they have had their first "serial series" 5 kW (home power) prototype running, continuously. As of this morning (MDT), it has now produced more than 200 kW-h of power. They have had no glitches in its operation so far.

They call it the AUKW, short for AuftriebsKraftwerk; translated, that means: buoyancy power plant. It stands 5 meters tall with a base of one square meter. (See photo gallery below.)

Starting this next Saturday, April 25 until May 6, GAIA will be doing a public demonstration of the AUKW prototype at Brüssler Strasse 15, 53841 Troisdorf (next to Cologne airport), Germany. You can sign up to attend via their website. Prior registration is required, due to limited capacity. They can handle up to 120 visitors per day.

They also plan to have a live stream video available for people to observe via the web. Here's a promotional video about their upcoming demonstration:

The production prototype is self-sustaining (no input power), with 4.8 kW net output.

http://pesn.com/2015/04/22/9602609_Gaia-Energy_demonstrating_5-kW-home-power_Rosch-KPP-prototype_Germany,_taking-orders/

AC - its not the cost/watt, its the CLAIM that it is "self-sustaining" that makes it interesting - despite the higher cost.

   I'm not yet convinced they have a " prototype is self-sustaining (no input power), with 4.8 kW net output", but the claim is worth exploring IMO.

   IF it works as claimed here, wouldn't you say its worth the cost?   
Actually, what I'd like to see is a small (say 200W) TEST model that a guy could build cheaply, then test - and try to find out where the "entering power" is coming FROM.  Or if there's a mistake somewhere.

Can we disentangle the info stream enough to build such a TEST model?  that's my question...
So let's ask questions, gather info, see if we can "reverse engineer" - or perhaps persuade these "altruistic" guys (their claim) to build and sell us a 200W TEST model...  for free verifications!
   
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@PhysicsProf
Quote
AC - its not the cost/watt, its the CLAIM that it is "self-sustaining" that makes it interesting - despite the higher cost.

I would agree, it is the claim however I wanted to make the point that we should keep an open mind and understand that free energy and renewable energy are one and the same only in FE the source is not apparent to most.

Quote
So let's ask questions, gather info, see if we can "reverse engineer" - or perhaps persuade these "altruistic" guys (their claim) to build and sell us a 200W TEST model...  for free verifications!

I have been all down this road a long time ago and already know exactly how it works however as is often my case once I found the answers I was looking for I understood there are better easier ways and found the technology was obsolete. Maybe we could discuss the issues here, just you and I, however I generally lose interest in talking about these things when the critics or other people jump in with unworkable idea's they have not fully thought through.

We could start with the first problem we encounter when we compress air then pump this air to the bottom of a tank filled with water. First we lose energy as heat when we compress the air and the compressor must act against the full force of the water pressure at the bottom of the tank. Then when the hot air enters the water tank it cools reducing it's volume thus it's bouyancy and we lose again. Apparently nobody understands basic thermodynamics well enough to have figured out that if all of the heat of compression from the air compressor was used to heat the water then the cool air entering the hot water tank must expand increasing it's volume thus it's buoyancy.

You see as is usually the case everyone has it all backwards but Victor Schauberger had it right -- "In every case do the opposite to whatever technology does today. Then you will always be on the right track".

Okay we have just solved the first part of the equation and the air compressor is no longer acting against it's own heat of compression and we have moved the heat of compression to the water so the air no longer contracts when it enters the water losing buoyancy but expands gaining buoyancy. Our next step is just as easy however it's going to take a little creative thinking on your part PhysicsProf. Now the critics would have us believe the only way to get air into the bottom of the water tank is to push or pump it in by force however they are for the most part clueless and not thinking clearly nor creatively. Should we just push or pump the air in by force without consideration or thought or are there other more graceful ways of doing this?.

I will give you a hint, Victor Schauberger figured out one way to cross the air/water boundary condition at the bottom of the tank with almost no real work involved about 100 years ago.

AC


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“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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regarding Rosch
Stefan has strong opinions but no verdict

here

http://www.overunity.com/15732/rosch-taking-orders-on-ou-bouyancy-device/msg448058/#new
   
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So just where is the miracle?

The 4.8 kW demonstrator is made with a COTS generator and air compressor, up at the top. It's essentially a chain of buckets that float upwards through a 4 meter column of water when full of air, then they fill with water and are drawn downwards again, and it "runs" relatively slowly.

It's easy to calculate that there is nowhere near 4.8 kW of continuous power available from the buckets floating upward. Six and a half horsepower? No way Jose. And that's supposed to be _after_ the losses that come from dragging all those empty buckets down through the water, gear and chain and bearing losses, electrical losses, heat losses, etc.
http://www.overunity.com/15732/rosch-taking-orders-on-ou-bouyancy-device/msg448064/#msg448064

SO where is the miracle? How does all that extra power get into the system? Where does it enter?

Systems quite similar to this have been proposed and built many times. None has ever worked. So what would be the point of building _yet another_ one, with no idea of where the extra power is supposed to enter the system, that will also not work?

https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/unwork.htm
https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/themes/buoyant.htm
https://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/themes/bellows.htm



@AC: there are complete solutions of the entire problem, taking account the heat of compression and etc. available on the thread on overunity.de which discusses this ... thing. 
Citing Viktor Schauberger's claims gets you nowhere without evidence that those claims were correct, and there is much evidence that many of them were not.


They appear to be using one of these type pumps:

http://www.alita.com/airpump/pi_250u_en.php

Note the working pressure. What is the water pressure at 4 meters depth? Somebody had better call Viktor Schauberger and ask him for some details.....


   
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