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OverUnity Research > Benches > Grumage (Moderator: Grumage) > Akula0083 30 watt self running generator.
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Author Topic: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator.  (Read 932350 times)
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img  Dave45
Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1050 on: 2014-05-28, 12:27:34 »
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Quote from: giantkiller on 2014-05-28, 02:02:53
Correct! The diodes would shut off the echoing back and forth.
The "Echo Effect" perfect you nailed it  ;)
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1051 on: 2014-05-28, 13:42:05 »
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If you just want to tune the transformer.
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1052 on: 2014-05-28, 14:16:53 »
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It's turtles all the way down
I think that connection between the drain and C3 needs to be broken or a catch diiode inserted or the capacitor will destroy the FET on "first turn on".


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1053 on: 2014-05-28, 15:03:41 »
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Quote from: Dave45 on 2014-05-28, 13:42:05
If you just want to tune the transformer.

In this connection type you will need to use inverter circuit to pulse L2 . But also as soon as you discharge C3 there will be much more current consumed on L1 for C3 recharge.

You can try to solder circuit as I provided with fixes (just the driving transistor might be connected in different way) and you will see.
Also to isolate MOSFET - the dual/triple shotky diodes in series between coil and transistor solves problem.
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1054 on: 2014-05-28, 15:33:22 »
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@Dave45

For mosfet pulse testing I have tried something much easier as explained below.

@all

Thanks for your posts. This problem of mine should be present in many mosfet pulsing systems. Right now I removed everything from the mosfet and I am just using it via a 12vdc battery and some leds with the FG around 1-2 Hz and 10% duty and 4-5 volts amplitude. Back to basics. The problem is at the 90% off time, the LEDS are still slightly lit which is a major no no if you are looking to pulse the L1 from nothing to full impulse thus creating the maximum change in the core that would then be imparted to L2. I made a small diagram showing this simple set-up that does not produce clear off times on the LED. Without clear off times, you get weak pulsing and low change in the core.

I know I am a dumb ass when it comes to formal EE but I remember very clearly at the top of this thread where I explained great concerns in the diagram. Seems like we are coming full circle here with guys having the device long enough on the bench with the AK30 circuit as originally shown and now looking to make changes that reflect a more logical circuit function.

At the time I tried explaining that since B+ enters L1, exits L1 through D5 and then heads to the load, this means the load is receiving a positive B+ at all times. This means at the base of L1 where the mosfet is, that line is always an active B+ (always passing B+) and not the true negative side of a normal coil pulsing scheme where the B+ is dead ended until it is connected to ground via the mosfet. These are two totally different effects.

Now when the mosfet closes, the ground is hitting the B+ that is exiting the L1 but is still continuing on to the load as B+. So what does that mosfet pulse accomplish? A major mix up or a token pulse riding above straight DC to load.

Then you have L2 and we all are wondering what the hell the polarities are in that coil when is becomes energized via the core flux. Having only R3 between the B+ and top of L2 means B+ is entering the top of L2 which means the bottom of L2 should be negative if the coil is to function in any form of directionality. But the bottom of L2 has a D6 diode pushing the B+ into L2 and that comes from D5 and that is also going to the load. So you have L2 that is biased to B+ from both ends at all times, then how can you expect L2 to produce a clear polarity of its ends to then push some B+ back into C11 to initiate some level of looping? You cannot. L2 is just being held in, hmmmmmm, call it "stasis" since that L2 is simply being frozen in place. L2 has no possible way of anchoring itself to a ground on one side, (lowest potential) to then produce a high positive on the other side to initiate any output. It cannot. That's why I mention to @T-1000 to consider putting a diode between R3 and C11, to keep B+ out of L2 and let that new diode recharge and hold C11.
 
Then the D6-R2-C4 is doing what for L2. We are hoping it will produce a floating ground so L2 can generate some form of clear polarity but I am sure this combo is doing absolutely nothing in that regard because the only thing circulating in that combo is straight B+ which is much more stronger and consistent then any change that can occur via flux transfer to a frozen L2 . If that combo generated any form of B-, it would be shorted out continuously thus creating a major waste of energy.

The final point is how to make sure the mosfet pulsing is causing a true on/off of the B+ going through L1 because your scope can see and show the pulse but it cannot confirm if the pulse is going through L1 or is the scope just showing the mosfet pulse that hits the gate and is simply reverberating throughout the circuit or system. How do you know your mosfet is pulsing the L1?

Hahaha. Always questions.

wattsup

PS:  I am adding the following pdf on MagAmps because the circuits shown are so close to Akula, TK devices. I think the MagAmp is exactly what Akula made with the yoke device. The yoke device he wants us to forget. He used the yoke to pulse the main coils. I had tried this during the yoke builds we did with Wesley and had found that when I pulsed one primary and applied DC to the other primary, the secondary voltage dropped from around 650 to around 250 volts. This means the yoke could be used as a huge mosfet.


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http://etherimpress.com
   
img  Dave45
Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1055 on: 2014-05-29, 02:18:37 »
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Quote from: ION on 2014-05-28, 14:16:53
I think that connection between the drain and C3 needs to be broken or a catch diiode inserted or the capacitor will destroy the FET on "first turn on".
   
img  Itsu
Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1056 on: 2014-05-29, 10:51:35 »

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Quote from: T-1000 on 2014-05-24, 10:57:57
Hi there,

I managed to fix akula 30W circuit http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2358.msg36611#msg36611 with minor modification in way it is supposed to work:
1) The existing feedback loop needs to be removed and capacitor C5 + resistor R5 bottom right need to be replaced by one more layer of LEDs (I have 7 in series).
2) The connecting resistor R7 from TL494IN to that feedback loop needs to be grounded instead.
3) The connecting resistor R9 to plus side then pot and PIN 1 of TL494 needs to be disconnected from positive power input side and reconnected into positive side of charging capacitor C3.

In this way you will have pot R11 setting maximum level of capacitor C3 charge and regulating when TL494IN generator should stop after reaching voltage level. There is very sensitive level when it starts oscillating with ON/OFF modes on low frequency and that was intended to create secondary low frequency for transformer.

Also I did find out one issue there as well:
As soon as you connect L2 into circuit or just bulb back from positive side of capacitor C3 to positive side of capacitor C11 - the circuit starts to consume amperes instead if few milliamperes of current. This explains why ITSU and others have so much current draw. Without feedback loop LEDs get lit just fine. The feedback loop gets charge up to 20.5V in my case and I will need some another pulser/counter circuit to recharge primary capacitor C11 when the TL494IN is in OFF state perhaps.

P.S> I will repost my fixed version of circuit later when will have chance to access my computer, or Grumage/others who received copy might put it here....
Also I winded transformer with 1mm iron wire from http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GREEN-WIRE-FENCING-NETTING-PLANT-IVY-TWIST-TIE-TREE-SUPPORT-TYING-FIXING-GARDEN-/360611320881?ssPageName=ADME:L:OC:GB:3160 on ferrite E-core ETD49-CF139 from  Power Magnetics http://powermagnetics.co.uk/pace-components/ferrite-cores/etd-cores/etd49-cf139 on which I made gap with isolation tape on all 3 junctions. The turns on secondary was 35+17 CW and on primary the another half with 17 turns CCW as per my suggestion in beginning of this thread.

Hi T1000,

thanks for the input, i made the modifications as shown on bold above (without the extra leds) , so without the duty cycle control for which is still use the "verpies" method, see diagram below.
Would that pose any problem?

I too used the iron wire with similar coil setup (only 45 sec / 15 prim), and the thing is much more alive   ;D
It screems and squeals and has ever changing scope traces (oscillating?).

Anyway, i will make some video tonight if i can get it somewhat stable, here a first scope capture:
Ch1 (yellow) gate signal,   groundless as the other to probes grounds are at +12V level, so its somewhat distorted and just for reference.
Ch2 (blue) = voltage across R1, with C2 NOT removed (L1 Current)
Ch4 (green) = voltage across R3 (L2 current)


Regards Itsu

 
« Last Edit: 2014-05-29, 12:10:33 by Itsu »
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1057 on: 2014-05-29, 13:34:26 »

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As it is a Holiday overhere, but also a rainy day, i could already make the video of the modified Akula 30W device.
With the 3 potmeters i now have many tuning posibilities  :D

Anyway,  here the video:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXd2oMt9EsM&feature=youtu.be


Regards Itsu
« Last Edit: 2014-05-29, 18:05:46 by Itsu »
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1058 on: 2014-05-29, 19:52:02 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2014-05-29, 13:34:26
As it is a Holiday overhere, but also a rainy day, i could already make the video of the modified Akula 30W device.
With the 3 potmeters i now have many tuning posibilities  :D

Anyway,  here the video:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rXd2oMt9EsM&feature=youtu.be


Regards Itsu

I see it is still drawing loads of current.
Please try to add flip switch to L2 and try to run circuit again with L2 in disconnected state. That will radically drop down voltage consumption.

Also the next level modification attempt in my side will be with making additional coil in transformer for secondary sine wave impulse input (transformer action) and grounding L2 with output to additional electrolytic capacitor over paralel diodes and another diode back to the input of power supply as akula shown me another generic circuit (need to ask his permission to publish it)...

Cheers!
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1059 on: 2014-05-29, 20:02:48 »

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Quote from: T-1000 on 2014-05-29, 19:52:02
I see it is still drawing loads of current.
Please try to add flip switch to L2 and try to run circuit again with L2 in disconnected state. That will radically drop down voltage consumption.


I have the stop switch in the L2 circuit as on the diagram, but flipping it does not really make much change in current consumption.
Why would it, as the main current path (start - L1 choke - R1 - L1 prim. - Drain/source MOSFET - ground) is still there?

Regards Itsu
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1060 on: 2014-05-29, 20:43:10 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2014-05-29, 20:02:48
I have the stop switch in the L2 circuit as on the diagram, but flipping it does not really make much change in current consumption.
Why would it, as the main current path (start - L1 choke - R1 - L1 prim. - Drain/source MOSFET - ground) is still there?

Regards Itsu
With L2 not connected in my coil the current consumption with LEDs still lit can go down to ~60mA. Off course, in my case there are only 7 LEDs in series, not 2 strings of them. ;)
   
img  MenofFather
Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1061 on: 2014-05-31, 13:02:22 »
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I can say, that Topruslan write, that this lantern 30 W schematic is in general completed. He try make again this divice and not make. Hi say something, that ferite in this lantern is general, with not needed ferite core this lantern not work. Or maybe he something not good make, so not he get succes then replicate another time this divice, but this my opiom. Akula also, I remember, say, something like this that not all ferites good and that you can loose ferite futures then you test it. Topruslan say, that for him just look then he first time make this lantern 30 W. And write, that ferite destroing, he tired regluing ferite core in working lantern. Maybe he say true, maybe he say not true, is for you chose he say true or not true.
   
img  Dave45
Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1062 on: 2014-05-31, 16:09:31 »
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This is the circuit that should have been tested, using separate chokes, transformers, flybacks have been tested extensively.
Its the resonant effect between two coils that needs to be investigated or the echo effect.
Also V8carlos's bifilar capacitance experiments need further investigation.
   
img  Matt Watts
Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1063 on: 2014-06-02, 06:43:15 »
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And yet another one to hopefully glean some more insight from:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnuXqnTlJNM[/youtube]
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1064 on: 2014-06-02, 08:08:29 »
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Quote from: Matt Watts on 2014-06-02, 06:43:15
And yet another one to hopefully glean some more insight from:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnuXqnTlJNM[/youtube]

Thanks for sharing v4 video.  I hope we see a schematic soon.
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1065 on: 2014-06-02, 19:07:31 »
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I think Avalon succesfully replicated Akula small device.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgYLVyswgeQ&feature=youtu.be
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1066 on: 2014-06-02, 20:35:17 »
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Quote from: Matt Watts on 2014-06-02, 06:43:15
And yet another one to hopefully glean some more insight from:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnuXqnTlJNM[/youtube]

Ok, here is circuit attached from akula himself. :)

The idea behind is - after first pulse you let BEMF to reach maximum and hit with current from transistor again on its peak time so the magnetic domains when coming back wil be supported by current and voltage from BEMF WILL ADD with current from transistor so C28 cap will charge from much higher voltage on positive half-cycle. The LEDs are powered from BEMF. After this pulse you need to let ferrite's magnetic domains to return into first position. This is why there is low frequency in akula's ferrite case.

EDIT: "только поесни что вней добавлин повторитиль чтобы не мучитса с управлением транзисторов!  ато упруца в то что генератор не сможет управлть транзисторами так кака надо." - the main transistor driver correction added in second circuit edition.

Cheers!
« Last Edit: 2014-06-02, 21:04:43 by T-1000 »
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1067 on: 2014-06-02, 20:58:06 »
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Quote from: T-1000 on 2014-06-02, 20:35:17
Ok, here is circuit attached from akula himself. :)

The idea behind is - after first pulse you let BEMF to reach maximum and hit with current from transistor again on its peak time so the magnetic domains when coming back wil be supported by current and voltage from BEMF WILL ADD with current from transistor so C28 cap will charge from much higher voltage on positive half-cycle. The LEDs are powered from BEMF. After this pulse you need to let ferrite's magnetic domains to return into first position. This is why there is low frequency in akula's ferrite case.

Cheers!


Thanks a million T-1000....

Do you know the value for T-1 is this like a TL431 or an SCR ?
T1 is switching Ground for R58 & C40.....

Thanks again, peace
lost_bro
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1068 on: 2014-06-02, 22:17:56 »
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@T-1000 thanks thanks thanks
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1069 on: 2014-06-03, 01:22:14 »
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Good evening T-1000

Looking over the Akula schematic I see that once again the parts count on the schematic does NOT match the parts count in the video or the picture on the same schematic.

What is your opinion on this?  The schematic shows twice as many diodes, capacitors and transistors than the video or photo on the schematic.  

So, all the parts are NOT needed to make this work?

take care, peace
lost_bro
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1070 on: 2014-06-03, 06:53:11 »
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Yeah, at least I see choke in good position.  :D
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1071 on: 2014-06-03, 09:04:24 »
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The generator in left is said to be 1:1 by akula, the correction generator in the right was not in video.
Also that generator is supposed to reset circuit by recharging power input capacitor when parameters change (due temperature/humidity/etc).
So it is up to you to replicate effect now... :)

Cheers!
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1072 on: 2014-06-03, 21:55:04 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Quote from: lost_bro on 2014-06-02, 20:58:06
Thanks a million T-1000....

Do you know the value for T-1 is this like a TL431 or an SCR ?
T1 is switching Ground for R58 & C40.....

Thanks again, peace
lost_bro

T-1 is a PUT, "programmable unijunction transistor", but I think there must be an error in the schematics because it will be instantly destroyed upon turn on as both C28 and C40 have nothing to limit the current that will circulate in those devices upon turn on of T-1. The polarity of operation appears correct.

I think the idea was to use the extra winding to create a high voltage charge on C40, then discharge at the correct time through the PUT and into C28 to pump it up, but I think it will destroy the PUT unless some surge limiting resistor is inserted in the loop. A small inductor would be even better as it won't dissipate the energy.

PUT's can only take so much current, but a PUT can be fabricated from two complementary transistors, similar to an SCR. A PUT just brings out the unused terminal. See also "silicon controlled switch" a four terminal device where both the SCR and the PUT "gate" connections are available.

Akula is a careful designer with good attention to detail, however like most proprietary recipe's the chef leaves out some ingredients or adds others so no one can exactly duplicate his soup.

peace bro
« Last Edit: 2014-06-03, 23:20:56 by ION »


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"Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1073 on: 2014-06-04, 00:26:30 »
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Hi  there,

There is one mistake in circuit diagram I just noticed - the VT14 has wrong arrow, it is supposed to be PNP transistor KT361A - http://alltransistors.com/pdfdatasheet_russia/kt361a-b-v-g-d-e.pdf

Hopefully that will not stop from trying circuit as everyone gone quiet here...
   
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Re: Akula0083 30 watt self running generator. « Reply #1074 on: 2014-06-04, 01:21:32 »
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Quote from: ION on 2014-06-03, 21:55:04
T-1 is a PUT, "programmable unijunction transistor", but I think there must be an error in the schematics because it will be instantly destroyed upon turn on as both C28 and C40 have nothing to limit the current that will circulate in those devices upon turn on of T-1. The polarity of operation appears correct.

I think the idea was to use the extra winding to create a high voltage charge on C40, then discharge at the correct time through the PUT and into C28 to pump it up, but I think it will destroy the PUT unless some surge limiting resistor is inserted in the loop. A small inductor would be even better as it won't dissipate the energy.

PUT's can only take so much current, but a PUT can be fabricated from two complementary transistors, similar to an SCR. A PUT just brings out the unused terminal. See also "silicon controlled switch" a four terminal device where both the SCR and the PUT "gate" connections are available.

Akula is a careful designer with good attention to detail, however like most proprietary recipe's the chef leaves out some ingredients or adds others so no one can exactly duplicate his soup.

peace bro

Good evening ION

Another discrepancy is the fact that the KT361A is a PNP and his schematic shows a NPN symbol.......   
Doesn't the Cathode go to ground on the PUT in standard configuration?
Akula has his upside down with the Anode on ground.

take care, peace
lost_bro
   
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