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Author Topic: Grenade coil type systems  (Read 21921 times)
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To rapidly change the direction of the magnetic flux in a small circular section of the ferrite (or metal) on which the coils are wound.
The photos above depict coils wound on a small ferrite rod, but I'd like to use something with larger diameter* and since large ferrite rods are hard to come by, I probably will end up using a toroidal core sausage.

* to keep the frequencies sane.

Ok, I understand the field and the ferrite thing.
But, maybe I ask stupid questions this is I suppose not the last step?

You got the fields accomplished.. the ferrite is probably needed for storage of energy so can we assume air coils wont work?

You gonna add another coil or what is step 3?
   

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As far as I see it it's the Tesla coil that excelorates voltage and current into a high voltage and high prequency.
so it's not about storage is it  you need to get that excelerated energy into a lower usable voltage and current.
and a lower frequency like 50 hz or 60 or 100hz whatever. Simple, so how you going to do it ?


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I think the problem is that grenade is a set of coils which imho were originally placed nearby. In grenade we don't see the original interactions of coils
   

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But, maybe I ask stupid questions this is I suppose not the last step?
No question is stupid.  Correct, this is not the last step.

You got the fields accomplished.. the ferrite is probably needed for storage of energy so can we assume air coils wont work?
No, the ferrite is not for the storage of energy in the magnetic flux (as it occurs in e.g.: the flyback LOPT).
The ferrite has two important functions.  One is increasing the magnetic flux density that occurs in the gap between the coils and focusing that flux.
The other has to do with spins and I will leave its explanation for later.

You gonna add another coil or what is step 3?
Yes, that would be the output coil.  I expect short high current pulses out of it and there will need to be a filter to smooth out these pulses to a more convenient form of electric energy.  That filter can take the form of an LCR circuit, which might mean another coil.
« Last Edit: 2023-10-02, 22:17:19 by verpies »
   

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As far as I see it it's the Tesla coil that excelorates voltage and current into a high voltage and high prequency.
You could write that Tesla coil converts low voltage and high direct current into high voltage and low alternating current at high frequency.

so it's not about storage is it 
No.

you need to get that excelerated energy into a lower usable voltage and current.
and a lower frequency like 50 hz or 60 or 100hz whatever.
Simple, so how you going to do it ?
Accelerated energy has another name, namely - power.

If and only if HV low AC is generated by the device inadvertently, I will have the problem of converting it to a more convenient form, such as LV high AC, but it absolutely makes no sense to use a Tesla Coil to purposely convert LV high DC to HV low AC in order to later convert it back down to LV high AC (which can be accomplished by using a Tesla Coil in reverse btw), ...unless there is some mandatory intermediate process which requires HV low AC.

Do you know of such process ?
   

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Well what exactly is electricity ?


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At 141mT flux density, the various metals need these frequencies to resonate :

Iron with 195kHz ( component of steel transformer cores and ferrites )
Gold with 106kHz
Tungsten with 250kHz
Silver with 279kHz
Titanium with 339kHz
Chromium with 339kHz
Zinc with 376kHz  ( component of most soft ferrites )
Nickel with 536kHz ( component of fast soft ferrites )
Bismuth with 982kHz
Lead with 1.25MHz
Manganese with 1.49MHz ( component of slow soft ferrites )
Aluminum with 1.57MHz
Copper with 1.59MHz ( component of wires/windings )
Tin with 2.25MHz

Of course besides the low resonance frequency, also the susceptibility/abundance*, resistivity and skin-depth as well as the line-width factor, matter.

*In the list above, the names of the metals which are 100% susceptible to this resonance, are marked with the first letter as bold.
  Also, Copper also has a second resonance frequency at this flux density equal to 1.71MHz
« Last Edit: 2023-10-21, 03:06:43 by verpies »
   

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Oh yes it is ! just shoving another tesla coil on it brings you back where you started.
you need to un learn the BS ways and start a new, what is electricity?   

Put it this way whats the difference with a charged capacitor and the stuff you get out the wall?                       


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Be aware I'm moderated because I complained about persistent trolls to Chet, folowing me round and got same treatment as perpetrators..This is the third time, You aint doing this again.
   

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Oh yes it is ! just shoving another tesla coil on it brings you back where you started.
That was my point exactly in the last paragraph of this post, so why do you keep bringing it up?  I have not even proposed using a Tesla Coil in this thread.

you need to un learn the BS ways and start a new, what is electricity?   
I answered that off-topic question yesterday in another thread.

Put it this way whats the difference with a charged capacitor and the stuff you get out the wall?                     
I don't see how this is relevant to this topic. Ask it in another thread.
   

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That was my point exactly in the last paragraph of this post, so why do you keep bringing it up?  I have not even proposed using a Tesla Coil in this thread.
I answered that off-topic question yesterday in another thread.
I don't see how this is relevant to this topic. Ask it in another thread.
This is the question your asking (Re: Grenade coil type systems ) means your searching to solve something!
So “I’m asking you “
Quote from: AlienGrey on Today at 10:04:34
Put it this way what’s the difference with a charged capacitor and the stuff you get out the wall?                     
Quote >Ask it in another thread. ''why are you avoiding the question and the answer ?'' >>this is relevant to this topic. with out it
whats the point going any further. None

Fom an educational point of view ! Come on professor a relevant answer please.

The equasions of Maxwell and John H Poynting came up with his conservation of energy. might help
Sil


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Be aware I'm moderated because I complained about persistent trolls to Chet, folowing me round and got same treatment as perpetrators..This is the third time, You aint doing this again.
   

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While waiting for the coax to be delivered i was experimenting with the slotted alu pipe inside the Grenade, but now using the full power of the yoke.

I have the pickup led from the Kacher / antenna signal as source (now using the FG to drive the led for more flexibility and because i hate what a Kacher can do to my equipment) via an optical fiber
to an optical receiver driving the "divide by 50" circuit.

Then this signal goes to the by verpies designed PLL / TL494 driver to drive an again designed by verpies lossless clamp yoke driver.
From the yoke via the 4 turns secondary coil through a 580nF series cap to the inductor (resonant at 25.2kHz without slotted pipe, 26.2kHz with).

Video of this test here:  https://youtu.be/FwlqeMFDfJA

In the below screenshots i first have the Inductor signal (white) and the signal across the 25W load bulb on the Grenade (yellow):




Then the same signals, now with an UNGROUNDED slotted alu pipe inserted:




and finally the same signals, but now with the slotted alu pipe grounded:




So it looks like the slotted alu pipe has a negative influence on the signals on both the Inductor and the Grenade.

Itsu
   

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...this is relevant to this topic.
I don't see the relevance, so I will not answer this question in this thread in order not to pollute it with irrelevant discussion of general concepts like "what is electricity?", that can easily take up hundred of posts, ...but I will answer it in another thread so I am not avoiding the question.

with out it whats the point going any further. None
You answered your own question. My answer would be the opposite.
If you want me to discuss it in this thread you must demonstrate how it is relevant.  Until you do this - I will not answer it here.
   

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So it looks like the slotted alu pipe has a negative influence on the signals on both the Inductor and the Grenade.
If you were building a transformer, than this would be a "negative influence" indeed, because of the smaller amplitude at its output with the Al pipe present.

However, this is not a transformer - it is an energy generator and you need to subject the Al pipe to very specific magnetic environment for it to generate short high current pulses.
You should constantly monitor for the occurrence of such pulses while you are tuning the device - not for the highest amplitude of the sine wave at that which you have designated as the "output".

I noticed that the frequency of the current applied to these windings has stayed almost the same (it changed only by 1kHz).
In order to hunt for these short high current pulses in the Al pipe, you must subject that pipe to optimal magnetic bias and excitation (it is unknown if your setup does that) but also you need to monitor for these pulses with an H probe, while sweeping the excitation frequency, e.g from 10kHz to 1MHz over a long time period (your FG can do only 15min sweeps but SCPI can extend that). 

This is difficult to do in your setup because you've made the windings (and their drivers) resonant and thus very frequency-selective, therefore they allow you to efficiently generate magnetic flux at that resonant frequency but anything outside of it is severely attenuated.  This would be great if you already knew the optimal frequency for that Al pipe in that particular magnetic environment, but you don't and the present setup makes it very difficult for you to sweep for it and find it. 
If you get lucky it will look like a spike superimposed on that sinewave.
   

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Hi Verpies.

Could Itsu find these “ high current pulses “ by using a short length of slotted Aluminium tube placed between a couple of Microwave oven Magnetron magnets, a driver coil and pickup coil placed over the sample?

Cheers Grum.

Edit.

Hmmm, perhaps a daft question. I’m guessing the alternating magnetic field would rapidly demagnetise the Ceramic magnets at each end…. Electromagnets??


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Could Itsu find these “ high current pulses “ by using a short length of slotted Aluminium tube placed between a couple of Microwave oven Magnetron magnets, a driver coil and pickup coil placed over the sample?
Yes, but not only with magnets but with soft ferrite as well (see the diagram of the core) and the DC/LF bias coil to help the magnets.

It is not necessary to construct a pickup coil for the tests.  These pulses are visible with a simple H probe constructed like this in vicinity and connected to a scope in the "Normal mode" with the trigger level set high (so high that the sine waveforms that you feed into the entire setup do not trigger it) with 100ns/div timebase or faster.
   

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Hmmm, perhaps a daft question. I’m guessing the alternating magnetic field would rapidly demagnetise the Ceramic magnets at each end…. Electromagnets??
If you wound the excitation coil directly over the magnets and were able to put kiloAmps through it, so the magnets coercivity became overcome - then yes.
But creating these types of currents directly over the magnets is neither planned nor supported by the circuitry.
   

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Thanks Verpies.   O0

As you’re probably very aware the term “ Aluminium “ is quite generic, there’s a myriad of alloys and presumably each would have its own “ unique “ signature? The same goes for Brass too….  ;)

It would however, be interesting to see these spikes that you mentioned earlier on though.

Cheers Grum.



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 Itsu that was a great test, thanks for sharing. Now you have that test and you have all the items to hand
can i ask you to try something else in the test?

1 can you try adding if you have a ferrite rod you can insert into the tube and noting any difference
2 try removing the tube and just try it with the ferrite rod
3 try putting an extension wire from the Tesla output down the center of the tube but insulate it first and make sure the grenade has a load
4 with out the aloy tube and note any differance in any of the tests
many thanks and hope you find favorable results

Sil


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Be aware I'm moderated because I complained about persistent trolls to Chet, folowing me round and got same treatment as perpetrators..This is the third time, You aint doing this again.
   

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Itsu that was a great test, thanks for sharing. Now you have that test and you have all the items to hand
can i ask you to try something else in the test?

1 can you try adding if you have a ferrite rod you can insert into the tube and noting any difference
2 try removing the tube and just try it with the ferrite rod
3 try putting an extension wire from the Tesla output down the center of the tube but insulate it first and make sure the grenade has a load
4 with out the aloy tube and note any differance in any of the tests
many thanks and hope you find favorable results

Sil
Copper tubes with a cut and ferrites with kachers from my video went. ;D The kacher is phytonite, and the lamp burns into the ground.
The naive Akula saw free energy in this)))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1InK_sYW6JE
   

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The kacher is phytonite, and the lamp burns into the ground.
What is "phytonite" ?
   

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It was funny to watch. The lamp is on, the Kacher works more efficiently and consumption decreases!!! :D
   

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What is "phytonite" ?
Google translates it like this: sparkle
   

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Copper tubes with a cut and ferrites with kachers from my video went. ;D The kacher is phytonite, and the lamp burns into the ground.
The naive Akula saw free energy in this)))
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1InK_sYW6JE
Thats going back about 10 years I made it from your film it was exelent my pals at work were impresef  ;)
where is the rest of the film ? I dont have it now and jast time i saw it it was in bits from guys copying it. i'm not working at the same place
so no idea where it is now.

Sil


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Be aware I'm moderated because I complained about persistent trolls to Chet, folowing me round and got same treatment as perpetrators..This is the third time, You aint doing this again.
   

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A piece of copper pipe with a cut, the effect was on it. Aluminum didn't work. But on the advice of the Tiger (Vitaly), I heated the pipe itself on gas and dipped it in wine vinegar so that there were oxides on it. 8) And yes, ferrite, it helps a lot in the tube!
   

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As you’re probably very aware the term “ Aluminium “ is quite generic, there’s a myriad of alloys and presumably each would have its own “ unique “ signature? The same goes for Brass too….  ;)
Very true.
I'd like to add that it is possible to use Zn/Fe ferrite in lieu of the metal ring.
   
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