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Author Topic: What causes lightning to do this?  (Read 9215 times)
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img  JimBoot
What causes lightning to do this? « on: 2015-04-07, 12:58:29 »

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http://youtu.be/U8mSwCwZO1o What causes that path of least resistance and why does it grow in length? Ionized gases producing a pressure difference?
   
img  Chet K
Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #1 on: 2015-04-07, 13:44:04 »
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Jim
I have never seen anything like that Vid, made the hair stand up on my arms... :o
I would imagine the one spot where the Bolts kept striving [floating V slightly left of center]
was a tower of some sort .



I also felt that Clarence better be careful with his ground array when storm season starts in his part of the country.
   
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Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #2 on: 2015-04-07, 13:54:51 »
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The ionized gases are creating lower resiatance and free electrons for a path. As long as there is stable channel there will be always same path for a lightning for discharge each time...
Also if you try overvoltage capacitor the dialectric breakdown will occur in same way.

Cheers!
   
img  TinselKoala
Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #3 on: 2015-04-07, 15:08:10 »
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Here's a slightly better copy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D39u9eeGG4c

Some of what you're seeing is camera artefact, a result of saturation of the pixel elements in the camera's very sensitive CCD sensor. When you are shooting at 9000 frames per second, a lot can happen in a very short time.

It's pretty spectacular imagery for sure. I'm impressed more by the extremely short duration flashes that happen around the main strokes. Seeing the leaders develop like that is pretty cool. There is a lot that is known about lightning dynamics, coming from high-speed photography like this, but also there remains great mystery. The weird things like "sprites" that happen high above thunderstorms are just beginning to be researched.
   
img  Grumage
Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #4 on: 2015-04-07, 19:27:51 »

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Buy me a cigar
Dear All.

This is what I see.

At around 12 seconds the strike starts getting near to ground which seems to start an upward opposite charge from a structure, left of centre. 14 second mark sees total discharge. 16 seconds sees that ground to air discharge, or could we call it recharge !! At around 20 seconds we see two more ground to air charges starting, right of centre.

So, what is happening ? Is it air to ground discharge followed by the ground returning the compliment ??  ;)  We are surrounded by a sea of energy........... In balance........... Just disturb the balance........... And ?  ;)

Cheers Grum.


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img  Aking.21
Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #5 on: 2015-04-07, 21:29:48 »

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I also see the structure of life. The lightning resembles a tree with branches, but minus leaves.


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Electrostatic induction: Put a 1KW charge on 1 plate of a  capacitor. What does the environment do to the 2nd  plate?
   
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Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #6 on: 2015-04-07, 23:08:22 »
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img  Farmhand
Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #7 on: 2015-04-08, 01:44:15 »
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I think the lightning Rods on the buildings play a big part in that sequence. I seen that video some time ago, it is fascinating. A well grounded lightning rod can cause odd looking things to happen. I remember a violent electrical storm when I was living in town, I had a clear view of the tower at the fire station from a few hundred meters, the tower had a lightning rod on top and when the lightning struck the actual lightning rod there was no bang, I assume now because the resistance was low. If the lightning struck anything else it made a loud bang/crack, but when it hit the lightning rod it just made an ominous buzzing sound. While I was watching it a lightning bolt hit the top of a pole right outside my house and what looked like a "plasma" ball formed and rolled down the power lines then dropped onto the roof of a car then rolled off onto the ground and dissipated. The car spluttered but kept going. Not sure of the ball and the lightning rod soaking up over 10 lightning strikes were connected. At the time I thought the silent lightning was more strange than the ball, but the ball was truly scary. That storm was really spectacular.

Isn't lightning always a two way street, with the ground discharging to the sky as well ?

I would like to see a tight shot slo mo video of like the main bolt to a good lightning rod to see if natural lightning has the same double strand rope/helix type structure to it before and after conduction with the rod.

I see my Tesla coil spin up a double helix before it throws itself apart into a fork. To me it resembles rope and maybe DNA. 

This little clip shows some pictures in the second half which show the twisting up of the sparks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxTjHk9LEwU

This is a continuous clip while varying the break rate, coil has a high resonant frequency 760 kHz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nkJtrKCdFg

..
   
img  JimBoot
Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #8 on: 2015-04-08, 02:50:19 »

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The more I look and learn the more I think the EU guys are on the money.
   
img  Allcanadian
Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #9 on: 2015-04-08, 04:36:51 »
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“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman
   
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Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #10 on: 2015-04-08, 08:20:15 »

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Quote from: JimBoot on 2015-04-08, 02:50:19
The more I look and learn the more I think the EU guys are on the money.


I agree, the more you look into EU theory and examine the evidence they present the more it makes sense.

When I saw the EU slideslow presented by Wal it was excellent however there was one bit at the end that was rather odd. A theory was put forward that the Earth is larger now than it was in the past, that it is growing through time, and the evidence for that was an increase in the gravitational field because when they analysed dinosaur skeletons the bone Mass would have been too large to allow them to move at current gravity. The Weight of the dinosaurs which is Mass x gravitational acceleration would have prevented them from surviving therefore 1G is a variable (which we know) and is a lot larger now than it was when T-Rex was wandering around. An interesting theory for sure, I wonder if they still advocate it ?

Super Lightning:

http://www.scienceforums.com/topic/3441-super-lightning/

That program the OP mentions I saw years ago but it's incredibly hard to find any information on it. It seems that super lightning has been termed a Sprite but that is not what I remember seeing and looks like the OP remember's differently as well. The super lightning in the film footage extended up from the clouds and into space and looked identical to the normal lightning going to Earth ground. I do not remember it being two bolts though with a bolt coming back from space to meet the one coming up from the clouds. I think they said on the program that they first noticed it when aircraft flying high above the thunder clouds were hit by lightning bolts coming up from the clouds. I think now they are termed as Sprites but I am not sure this is correct, the upwards lightning on the footage looked just like lightning, unmistakable.


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Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
img  TinselKoala
Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #11 on: 2015-04-08, 16:15:47 »
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Quote from: Farmhand on 2015-04-08, 01:44:15
I think the lightning Rods on the buildings play a big part in that sequence. I seen that video some time ago, it is fascinating. A well grounded lightning rod can cause odd looking things to happen. I remember a violent electrical storm when I was living in town, I had a clear view of the tower at the fire station from a few hundred meters, the tower had a lightning rod on top and when the lightning struck the actual lightning rod there was no bang, I assume now because the resistance was low. If the lightning struck anything else it made a loud bang/crack, but when it hit the lightning rod it just made an ominous buzzing sound. While I was watching it a lightning bolt hit the top of a pole right outside my house and what looked like a "plasma" ball formed and rolled down the power lines then dropped onto the roof of a car then rolled off onto the ground and dissipated. The car spluttered but kept going. Not sure of the ball and the lightning rod soaking up over 10 lightning strikes were connected. At the time I thought the silent lightning was more strange than the ball, but the ball was truly scary. That storm was really spectacular.

Isn't lightning always a two way street, with the ground discharging to the sky as well ?

I would like to see a tight shot slo mo video of like the main bolt to a good lightning rod to see if natural lightning has the same double strand rope/helix type structure to it before and after conduction with the rod.

I see my Tesla coil spin up a double helix before it throws itself apart into a fork. To me it resembles rope and maybe DNA. 

This little clip shows some pictures in the second half which show the twisting up of the sparks.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxTjHk9LEwU

This is a continuous clip while varying the break rate, coil has a high resonant frequency 760 kHz.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nkJtrKCdFg

..


 O0 O0
   
img  Farmhand
Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #12 on: 2015-04-08, 17:15:40 »
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Well I got a new camera which can shoot at 240 frames per second but only at low resolution 320 x 240. And my fast rotary spark gap has a cracked rotor so it's dangerous, a bit. I won't be able to film any more sparks for a while yet from that transformer, I don't have the time to fix the rotor or build a solid state driver and another transformer even though I already have almost everything I need, my health is holding me back. It seems now the doctor thinks I might also have a Diaphragmatic hernia, to go with all my bulged and ruptured discs, after several years of agony or pain killers I can only hope they can find something to fix instead of trying to drug me to death to shorten the waiting list.  >:(

The camera can only record for a short time at the 240 frame rate so to capture the effects I want to record will take some setting up. And I need to build another cyclone resistant shed. Not cheap, I'm completely out of inside free space.

..
   
img  Farmhand
Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #13 on: 2015-04-08, 18:47:47 »
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I just had to go and have a read on a "lightning" article. I'll make bold some interesting parts. I didn't want to copy and paste the whole article but it mentions sprites and other stuff. I think the main kind of lightning I am interested in is cloud to ground and ground to cloud of both positive and negative strikes as the article explains them below.

https://www.ec.gc.ca/foudre-lightning/default.asp?lang=En&n=9353715C-1

Quote
A cloud-to-ground lightning strike starts as a channel of negative charges makes its path towards the ground. This occurrence is known as a stepped leader. The stepped leader continues towards the ground in a series of steps that are each about 50 to 100 metres in length. This stepped leader can branch out in many directions.

In response to the discharge of negative charges coming from the cloud base, currents of positive charges start moving upward from the ground, usually along elevated objects; these are called streamers or upward leaders.

When the stepped leader and the upward leader meet, usually between 30 to 100 metres above the ground, the negative charges begin to flow downward. Almost instantaneously, a much larger and luminous electric current shoots up to the cloud, following the path taken by the stepped leader. This is known as the return stroke, and it is also what we see in the sky that is known as lightning. This whole process occurs so quickly (in less than one second!) that the lightning appears to travel from the cloud to the ground, when in fact, the opposite is true.

Negative versus Positive Lightning Strikes

The vast majority of lightning strikes are negative lightning strikes, meaning there is a net transfer of negative charges from the cloud to the ground. Negatives strikes make up about 95 per cent of cloud-to-ground strikes.

When there is a net transfer of positive energy from the cloud to the ground, the strikes are considered positive lightning strikes. These strikes originate from areas of the cloud that have areas of high positive charge, such as in the anvil or top of the cloud, or upper parts of the thunderstorm.

Even though only about five per cent of lightning strikes are positive, they are quite significant because they carry a higher charge and last longer than negative strikes. Due to this, they tend to cause more damage to power and electricity infrastructure, and also start more forest fires than negative strikes. Positive strikes are more common in severe thunderstorms and in thunderstorms that occur during the winter.
   
img  thx1138
Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #14 on: 2015-04-28, 12:55:36 »
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Quote from: Aking.21 on 2015-04-07, 21:29:48
I also see the structure of life. The lightning resembles a tree with branches, but minus leaves.
The pattern is also in the leaves. And there is a similar pattern in the roots.

Also take a look at satellite views of riverbeds and blood circulatory systems, i.e. arteries and veins.
https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=dry+riverbed+satellite+images+
https://www.google.com/search?q=circulatory+system+photos&sa=X&biw=1024&bih=624&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&ei=QHM_VdfbEZWgyASIhID4AQ&ved=0CB4QsAQ

So it is a fundamental pattern in nature.

Lichtenberg figures are man made high voltage discharges into a transparent plastic that are about the same.
https://www.google.com/search?q=lichtenberg+figures&biw=1024&bih=624&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=D20_VbPrD4ytyATWpoCgCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CDYQsAQ#imgrc=_
   
img  thx1138
Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #15 on: 2015-04-28, 13:47:38 »
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Quote from: Farmhand on 2015-04-08, 18:47:47
I just had to go and have a read on a "lightning" article. I'll make bold some interesting parts. I didn't want to copy and paste the whole article but it mentions sprites and other stuff. I think the main kind of lightning I am interested in is cloud to ground and ground to cloud of both positive and negative strikes as the article explains them below.

https://www.ec.gc.ca/foudre-lightning/default.asp?lang=En&n=9353715C-1

The best paper I found on lightning is "Atmospheric Electrodynamics" by Hans Volland. I found a PDF of it somewhere on the web but can't seem to find the link now. When you tie that in with Fritz Lowenstein's "Capacities" it gives you a good idea of what Tesla was working on. Fritz Lowenstein was one of Tesla's assistants at some point.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/257334618/Hans-Volland-Atmospheric-Electrodynamics-BookZZ-org#scribd
http://docslide.us/documents/fritz-lowenstein-capacities.html

After reading that, go read Tesla's July 4, 1899 Colorado Springs notes. He sees a ground to cloud lightning strike but doubts what he is seeing. He says it might appear that way because the base of the lightning bolt is closer to him that the atmospheric portion. So he didn't immediately recognize what he saw. Some time after I read that I personally saw a ground to cloud strike out at my rural property but never would have realized what it was if I hadn't read that. An interesting thing about the Colorado Springs notes is that the first high speed photography of a ground to cloud strike was accomplished at Colorado Springs. Apparently Colorado Springs is an excellent place to study lightning because there is a huge, relatively flat plain to the east and the wind over the Rocky Mountains causes air eddies which mix the higher altitude air and the air nearer the ground and vice versa depending on the wind direction. I have not seen anything about Tesla knowing or suspecting that to be the case and a reason to select Colorado Springs for his testing but the stories of his youthful experiences with lightning were in mountains, if I remember correctly.
http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/tesla/coloradonotes/coloradonotes03.htm#Colorado Springs Notes - July 1-31, 1899
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLWIBrweSU8

Now think about Wardenclyffe. The mushroom shaped dome on top was a capacitor designed to develop millions of volts like lightning but from the steam powered generator, the cloud, as it were. It was discharged into the ground. Unlike lightning, however, the timing and location of the strikes were to be controlled. The location would always be the same and he could adjust the timing to set up standing waves.

In the July 4 notes Tesla was thinking the returning pulse was in the air. He says as much. I don't know when he realized he could use the ground just as well but he did. His original transmission patent was to transmit between balloons maintained at 30,000 feet but he never attempted that. There would surely have been photos if he had.
   
img  thx1138
Re: What causes lightning to do this? « Reply #16 on: 2015-04-28, 14:01:04 »
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Quote from: TinselKoala on 2015-04-07, 15:08:10
There is a lot that is known about lightning dynamics, coming from high-speed photography like this, but also there remains great mystery. The weird things like "sprites" that happen high above thunderstorms are just beginning to be researched.
And they have recently discovered "dark lightning" which is a discharge which occurs before the visible discharge. IMO it is x-rays and/or gamma rays. I built a Tesla radiant energy receiver circuit like the Jes Ascanius project and was taking readings one night when there was thunderstorm north of me which was the direction the elevated plate was facing. There wasn't any rain at my location at the time. A particularly strong lightning stroke occurred while I was taking a reading and it jumped up to 4 times what it had been just a moment before. It was a cloud to cloud bolt so the ground rod wasn't involved in the reception but only the discharge. That got me to studying lightning and I found papers describing the "dark lightning".

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=dark+lightning
   
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