Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field)

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Author Topic: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) (Read 4862 times)

Allcanadian	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #25 on: 2023-05-16, 15:37:10 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2660	Forest Quote Although Figuera's device generated interest and intrigue, there is limited information available about its technical specifications or detailed operation. Historical records suggest that Figuera filed a patent for his invention in 1902 but was unable to secure the necessary funding to continue his work. It's important to note that there is no credible scientific evidence or documentation to support the claims made by Figuera regarding his device's ability to produce limitless energy. Figuera's work remains largely unverified and unrecognized within the scientific community. This is not correct. Figuera was a very well respected and credible Engineer who demonstrated his technology to countless people. Figuera also claimed he sold his working technology to a bankers union for a very large sum of money. Coincidentally, there is no record of the bankers ever suing Figuera thus we can assume they were pleased with the technology which worked as claimed. AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

forest	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #26 on: 2023-05-16, 19:35:21 »
Sr. Member Posts: 462	Sure, I know. It was posted as example of chatgpt response. He is cheating

JimBoot	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #27 on: 2023-06-10, 05:45:48 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 1728	Quote from: Allcanadian on 2023-05-16, 15:37:10 Forest This is not correct. Figuera was a very well respected and credible Engineer who demonstrated his technology to countless people. Figuera also claimed he sold his working technology to a bankers union for a very large sum of money. Coincidentally, there is no record of the bankers ever suing Figuera thus we can assume they were pleased with the technology which worked as claimed. AC thanks ac. As this is an Llm with built in “safety” controls I’d like to use it in ways unintended to explore alt energy development. If you have any citations for the above it would be good to share. I think we need a thread on how to use these tools . I’ve already published two extensions on the chrome store this year and I’m not a programmer

Vasile	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #28 on: 2023-06-24, 22:34:11 »
Newbie Posts: 2	I come back with the answer to the first post of this thread. I made some experiments and I can conclude that Alberto MOLINA-MARTINEZs idea of using the rotating magnetic field as a generator, that presumably induces on a coil and produces more than its input, is incorect as far as I have experimented. It acts like a conventional transformer, a very inefficient one and not like a generator. « Last Edit: 2023-06-25, 18:24:44 by Vasile »

Allcanadian	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #29 on: 2023-06-27, 17:21:28 »
Group: Moderator Hero Member Posts: 2660	Vasile Quote I come back with the answer to the first post of this thread. I made some experiments and I can conclude that Alberto MOLINA-MARTINEZs idea of using the rotating magnetic field as a generator, that presumably induces on a coil and produces more than its input, is incorect as far as I have experimented. It acts like a conventional transformer, a very inefficient one and not like a generator. Indeed, like most others I encountered this same problem over a decade ago. However I didn't solve the problem with electronics or science more so logic and a good line of reason. For example, forget what we believe or think is happening and look at what is present. In reality these kinds of devices are simply many transformers placed in a circle. The supposed rotating magnetic field is many transformers in a circle switched sequentially giving the appearance of a rotating field. This is why most devices we build act just like a transformer because that's exactly what we built. Here we need to step back and look at what we have done for what it is. We built a transformer then placed many of them in a circle and they acted just like a transformer. We just built a transformer not a free energy device. This is where logic, reason and first principals come into play. If all we see is transformers and that's all we build then that's exactly what were going to get. So I started breaking everything down and concluded the circular form aka rotating field is not required. In fact many inventors only used one supposed transformer thus we can exclude a circular form and a rotating magnetic field. Logically if neither is required then they are irrelevant and not part of the process producing a gain. First principals is about excluding all that doesn't apply and focusing on what could. Always refining our thinking, being precise in our thinking and avoiding all the clutter and noise which doesn't apply. Here we need to ask, are we more interested in blindly following others and copying what they do or are we looking for a logical explanation of how to produce a gain in energy?. You see, when I tested my first working device what others believed or did was the last thing on my mind. It was completely irrelevant and my only focus was on energy and how a process could produce a supposed gain. We could think of it this way, an inventor sits down at there bench with the same materials present as millions of other people. However what defines an inventor is being able to assemble the materials in such a way that it does something different nobody else thought of. It sounds easy however as many here know it's actually very difficult. This definitely helps, https://www.verywellmind.com/what-is-flow-2794768 AC --------------------------- Comprehend and Copy Nature... Viktor Schauberger “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.”― Richard P. Feynman

giantkiller	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #30 on: 2023-07-03, 02:17:23 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1579 Frequency equals matter...	There are two types of rotating magnetic fields. This video shows both.One that rotates about the vertical axis of the coil and the other is the flux rotates around the winding.I am surprised that this is still an issue that people follow. The false connection is between what SM built compared to what people assumed was happening. I believe it is a rabbit hole. On the other hand when a ring coil is fired up the initial growth of the field does follow the ring path and pulsing drives this. SM stated this in the King's journey document by Mannix. The idea was to convey an operation through a concept. Unfortunate though is many an operation was touted by personal interpretation of a myriad of concepts belonging to the individual's training or experience. Good or bad. Matching or not.Why bother about all this and drive a coil snubbed just shy of harmonic destruction. ------------------------ StClair fields.avi (1402.5 kB - downloaded 102 times.) --------------------------- http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/

e2matrix	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #31 on: 2023-07-19, 19:31:28 »
Sr. Member Posts: 338	Quote from: solarlab on 2023-04-27, 04:39:37 Forgot the patent rejection notice (standard for this type of device): Attached pdf. I attempted to find this patent application based off the number in the patent rejection you attached but the only document I could get off that number (and I tried a number of variations) seems to be only about a detergent application - nothing to do with energy. I also tried the applicants name with no luck in the advanced search unless I want to look through over 26000 documents. Can you point a way to the original patent application? After digging around a bit more with that patent application database I did find 3 patents by the applicant person and one was the one in the rejection notice. One is titled "Antimatter Electrical Device" and the other two "Continuous Electrical Device" I think they are worth looking at. I attached all three here but my post failed for some reason so I'll try adding them in the next post.

e2matrix	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #32 on: 2023-07-19, 19:52:54 »
Sr. Member Posts: 338	I've tried twice now to post the attached patent application pdf's but nothing shows up so trying one at a time. ------------------------ US_20020125774_A1_I.pdf (2320.17 kB - downloaded 55 times.)

e2matrix	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #33 on: 2023-07-19, 19:53:40 »
Sr. Member Posts: 338	Second one attached. ------------------------ US_20030168921_A1_I.pdf (2309.88 kB - downloaded 54 times.)

e2matrix	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #34 on: 2023-07-19, 19:54:58 »
Sr. Member Posts: 338	Third one attached (apparently there is a limit on total size attached per post?) ------------------------ US_20070110208_A1_I.pdf (5514.46 kB - downloaded 58 times.)

dsquared18	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #35 on: 2023-07-19, 21:58:41 »
Newbie Posts: 5	Quote from: e2matrix on 2023-07-19, 19:53:40 Second one attached. This version has pictures... (wooo!) D² ------------------------ US20030168921A1.pdf (911.31 kB - downloaded 88 times.)

e2matrix	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #36 on: 2023-07-20, 04:38:23 »
Sr. Member Posts: 338	Thanks for the one with pictures. Guess I should have read the whole thread from the start Some highlights from that patent: The Continuous Electrical Generator is and will be a very Simple machine. The outgoing electric energy provided by this System has been used to produce light and heat, run poly phase motors, generate usable mono-phase and poly-phase Voltages and currents, transform Voltages and currents by means of transformers, convert the alternate outgoing poly phase currents to direct current, as well as for other uses. The electricity obtained by the means described is as Versatile and perfect as the electricity obtained today with common electric generators. But the Continuous Electrical Generator is autonomous and does not depend on any other Source of energy but itself once it is running, may be carried anywhere with no limitations, it can be constructed in any size and provides any amount of electricity indefinitely, according to the design.

chief kolbacict	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #37 on: 2023-11-22, 17:32:38 »
Full Member Posts: 201	Is it fake? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enmd2I48Zi8

Chet K	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #38 on: 2023-11-22, 17:49:53 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4015	Chief Another resource for you Jim is amazing guy … cuts his own path !! https://mooker.com/ You should join and share there , Jim ( aka Floodrod) is actively exploring similar ( or at least he was ) And 100% open source guy ! Thanks for posting question… my response here was not to give opinions on Device . Just connect you ( and other readers) With another open source builder/researcher forum . With gratitude Chet

bistander	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #39 on: 2023-11-22, 21:55:51 »
Full Member Posts: 116	Quote from: Chet K on 2023-11-22, 17:49:53 Chief Another resource for you Jim is amazing guy … cuts his own path !! https://mooker.com/ You should join and share there , Jim ( aka Floodrod) is actively exploring similar ( or at least he was ) And 100% open source guy ! ... Chet Jim (aka Floodrod) is enthusiastic, but ignorant about basic electric and magnetic fundamentals. He clearly does not know the difference between a phase and a pole. He cannot tolerate criticism. Unfortunate to see all that energy (his) wasted. Obviously my opinion. bi

verpies	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #40 on: 2023-11-22, 23:02:11 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 3378	Quote from: bistander on 2023-11-22, 21:55:51 Jim (aka Floodrod) is enthusiastic, but ignorant about basic electric and magnetic fundamentals. He clearly does not know the difference between a phase and a pole. That's forgivable. Quote from: bistander on 2023-11-22, 21:55:51 He cannot tolerate criticism. That is not.

Chet K	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #41 on: 2023-11-23, 03:57:13 »
Group: Ambassador Hero Member Posts: 4015	IMO Jim (Floodrod) works through his own intuition, “cause and effect” and to his own internal drum beat .. It is hard for me to put into words , ultimately if he does get a gain or self runner ( playing with_his_ “intuitive what ifs” ?) That will be all that matters !( and he will absolutely be able to “ do it again “ ). Advice is good when it is solicited… not so good when it’s not ! Over the years I have spoken to many persons… And one thing seems clear …advice on conventional systems ( well managed and controlled towards very specific goals … Well yes you get expected results…inside the box. It’s the “hairier” areas (IMO perhaps chaotic in so far as the “rules which hold things ( atomic/magnetic etc level) together “ Where odd happens ..or can happen ! Yeah I like Jim’s odd … And I just try to pay attention! I’m odd too …I have this “belief” ….here in this place we inhabit…somehow ( which I can’t explain…) all things are possible , we’re playing in somebody’s “toy box of creation” .. Our bodies “should” go forever..except..there are built in mechanisms which build a little loss in at every “rebuild “ This is really not natures “ survival of the fittest” way.. It’s by design ( which we very recently cracked the DNA code .. Same type of code ( rules to manage) apply to everything around us … everything (LENR etc etc) We’ll crack those codes too, it’s our destiny..as is FE Just one man’s opinion Respectfully Chet K Ps Jim ( Floodrod here) bangs his drum at mooker, https://mooker.com/ as Jim Mac And since he is devout open source He’ll bang it here too if he finds something truly unusual!

floodrod	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #42 on: 2023-11-25, 04:08:09 »
Jr. Member Posts: 65	deleted « Last Edit: 2023-11-25, 16:08:53 by floodrod »

floodrod	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #43 on: 2023-11-25, 04:32:22 »
Jr. Member Posts: 65	Quote from: chief kolbacict on 2023-11-22, 17:32:38 Is it fake? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=enmd2I48Zi8 BTW Chief, that's my video and that model sucked. Lol.. Here is a better one I did a few days ago which verifies rotation, as I can control the direction it rotates. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4E6krAxWOo

bistander	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #44 on: 2023-11-25, 07:12:24 »
Full Member Posts: 116	Quote from: floodrod on 2023-11-25, 04:08:09 ... Bistander- you're right! I have no interest in your opinions. You believe as you do, and I believe as I do. ... Hi Jim, I gave my opinion to this group. I gave you facts, in an attempt to help you. Had you looked at polyphase RMF when I suggested, you would have realized then what you just demonstrated in the video. BTW, 2-phase is polyphase. Regarding the alternator and engine driven shaft power, my statement was again fact, not opinion. The armature output is not derived from power exciting the wound field. This is evident when the wound field is replaced with a PM. All the alternator output power is converted from the shaft (mechanical) input rotational power. Quote from: floodrod on 2023-11-25, 04:08:09 ... I graduated from Romp-A-Room more than 4 decades ago. Education is good. I graduated a few times also, from other institutions. I try to share some of that learning along with my 5 decades of experience in the electric machinery industry to help experimenters on these forums now that I am retired. That's all. bi

floodrod	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #45 on: 2023-11-25, 15:01:32 »
Jr. Member Posts: 65	deleted. « Last Edit: 2023-11-25, 16:10:08 by floodrod »

bistander	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #46 on: 2023-11-25, 16:15:58 »
Full Member Posts: 116	Quote from: floodrod on 2023-11-25, 15:01:32 deleted. Quote from: floodrod on 2023-11-25, 15:01:32 Notice I used the word "Rotating". it is not contested that the engine causes "Rotation". And the physically rotating "Mass" bogs down when inducing. And I also did not claim a static magnetic field can cause induction like a generator. They key word was "Rotating". ~~~~ My point was that Kinetic Energy of a Rotating Mass is not a requirement to reproduce the induction effects that an alternator exhibits. ~~~~ If proven true, it puts into question the assertion that a generator converts kinetic power into electricity. Hi Jim, Your assertion is that the alternator output is not derived from the conversion of mechanical power input via the shaft from the engine but rather from simply the rotation of the magnetic field, correct? The relative motion of the magnetic field, or change in the field, is required for generation or induction, as taught by Faraday. It has never been shown that this alone creates energy. Quote from: floodrod on 2023-11-25, 04:08:09 ... and I am not going to stop my builds because you say they won't work. I don't recall saying your builds won't work, and I have no intent to stop your builds. That is a misconception on your part. Your misconceptions will encumber your build efforts. Do you openly display your work to engage with the community, or to simply show off? If to engage, learn to accept scrutiny. You may not like what I say about your posts, but other readers might find those comments useful. So please don't delete my posts, or silence me. Thanks and good luck. bi

bistander	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #47 on: 2023-11-25, 16:23:35 »
Full Member Posts: 116	Quote from: floodrod on 2023-11-25, 04:08:09 deleted Because floodrod's deletion affects the context of my posts, I paste it here. bi Quote from: floodrod on 2023-11-25, 04:08:09 Hey guys. Thanks Chet for the words. I will give a quick update here. 2 phase and 3 phase can both create a rotating field. Actually any phase 2 or more can be used. I have rebuilt by 2 phase rotation several times, but I can not get the output to be 90 degrees out of phase with both input phases yet. it may be possible with 2 phase, but so far I can achieve an output that is 45 degrees out of phase with each input phase, or I can get the output 90 degrees out of phase with 1 input phase, but in-phase with the other input phase. But the CEMF will not be balanced till I can get the output 90 degrees with both input phases. I am thinking that if 2 phase is used at 90 degree difference, the pickup coils must also combine 2 phases @ 90 degrees to achieve this, but I can not confirm this yet. Still working on it to find out. Tesla, Marinov, and Meyl all suggest 2 phase can indeed create balanced CEMF, but the phase relationships and accuracy is crucial. Can't just rotate with 2 phase and throw any old coil in there.. But honestly, I have my doubts if 2 or 3 phase can really balance CEMF. I am also building a higher order Poly-Phase rotation device, which should expand output coil configuration possibilities. In regards to not being able to take criticism, some people like to criticize without accessing or addressing what is being said and shown. The criticism I received was telling me that a car alternator producing more output than is needed to sustain the magnetic field of the rotor was not due to the rotating magnetic field, but the engine and shaft. Where I believe it is the rotating magnetic field that makes it possible. Bistander- you're right! I have no interest in your opinions. You believe as you do, and I believe as I do. You stated you think a car alternator can output many times more than it needs to sustain the magnetic field of the rotor because of the engine and shaft power. And I think it is the rotating magnetic field itself which makes it possible. You bicker about 3 phase being just as good, while I am focused on finding the recipe for balancing CEMF. You call it not being able to take criticism, I call it ending the bickering. I have no time for drama and I am not going to stop my builds because you say they won't work. You can have the last word Bistander, and I won't even fire back anymore. I graduated from Romp-A-Room more than 4 decades ago. . With this, I'll take the last word as he offers.

floodrod	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #48 on: 2023-11-25, 19:52:10 »
Jr. Member Posts: 65	Quote from: bistander on 2023-11-25, 16:15:58 Hi Jim, Your assertion is that the alternator output is not derived from the conversion of mechanical power input via the shaft from the engine but rather from simply the rotation of the magnetic field, correct? The relative motion of the magnetic field, or change in the field, is required for generation or induction, as taught by Faraday. It has never been shown that this alone creates energy. That is correct. I ascertain that "any change in magnetic flux induces an electromotive force (EMF) opposing the change". And I will also say I believe it matters NOT if the change was caused from a gerbil on a wheel, a car engine, or from a motionless circuit. You can drag a log from point A to point B and exert unneeded energy in friction and resistance to motion, or you can build a wheel and exert a fraction of the energy to achieve the same goal. Those who do want to see my progress (or lack there of) know where to find me. I yield.

bistander	Re: Alberto Molina-Martinez principle (The Rotating Magnetic Field) « Reply #49 on: 2023-11-25, 21:12:06 »
Full Member Posts: 116	Quote from: floodrod on 2023-11-25, 19:52:10 That is correct. I ascertain that "any change in magnetic flux induces an electromotive force (EMF) opposing the change". And I will also say I believe it matters NOT if the change was caused from a gerbil on a wheel, a car engine, or from a motionless circuit. You can drag a log from point A to point B and exert unneeded energy in friction and resistance to motion, or you can build a wheel and exert a fraction of the energy to achieve the same goal. Those who do want to see my progress (or lack there of) know where to find me. I yield. Let me clarify my question; "Your assertion is that the alternator output power is not derived from the conversion of mechanical power input via the shaft from the engine but rather from simply the rotation of the magnetic field, correct? The relative motion of the magnetic field, or change in the field, is required for generation or induction, as taught by Faraday. It has never been shown that this alone creates energy." Inducing or generating a voltage or EMF does not produce power or do work. bi Note: In a context like this, saying "alternator output" would typically mean output power. I should have specified that, as I show in bold in the clarification above, to be perfectly clear.

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