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Author Topic: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM  (Read 43796 times)
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img  gyula
Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #50 on: 2018-06-13, 21:00:26 »
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Quote from: Slider2732 on 2018-06-13, 04:23:52
...
As far as I understand the coil tuning, for higher resonance turns are taken off, to lower the resonance turns are added ?

Hi Mark,

The answer is yes.  8)   

See also my post at OU for you.

Gyula
   
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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #51 on: 2018-06-13, 21:03:07 »
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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
Thanks Gyula :)


Thanks too for your time and measurements on this Itsu  O0
Someone with a similar setup has always been a problem.
Your tests seem to be quite exhaustive of traditional techniques and so, a question must be, is that particular Cree bulb of Dr. Stifflers' something important to it all ?
All over the place there are different bulbs being taken apart, myself with the Dollar Tree, NickZ with his various types, Lidmotor with others and yourself with several...but none are doing what the Doc shows.
 ???

Can I ask, do you note anything different or strange about the 13.6MHz frequency ? It may answer a few more questions.
 


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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #52 on: 2018-06-13, 21:13:10 »

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No, 13.6Mhz shows nothing special here, in fact the resonance frequency is greatly or possible completly depending
on the used coil.

I have used this 70 turn on 16mm diameter former coil around 14 to 17Mhz resonance (strongly depending on the length
of the coil leads and the diode leads), but i have also used a triple number of turns (210 or so) on a similar
16mm former coil at resonance around 7Mhz and even like Nick a tesla / kacher like secondary coil of 700 turns
in resonance around 1,5Mhz.

But all show only dimly lit leds, so yes, it seems to me that the used Cree leds bulb is where the magic is  ;D

Itsu

 
   
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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #53 on: 2018-06-13, 21:25:06 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2018-06-13, 20:42:12
I have tried severall aluminium backed led assemblies, from severall led bulbs, but non is able to give out
significant (what Dr. Stiffler shows) light when powered by a capacitivly coupled (copper foil to the back) FG.
Using 2x 1n4148 diodes as diode loop to the leds.


My Rigol DG4102 FG can supply a 20Vpp sine wave up to 20Mhz, but when using the red lead only to a series coil
(70 turns on a 16mm diameter former) to the copper (capactor) strip on the leds back, the voltage when tuning into
resonance (14Mhz in my case) drops to about 15Vpp pointing to a series resonance (low impedance) situation.

This 15vpp is only able to dimly light the leds, so any black box (solar cell inside) measurements is very
tricky (unstable) and yields only an equivalent DC input power of about 5mW or so.

Also adding a scope probe to the FG input will cause a deviation of the resonance frequency and light output as is when
adding the scope ground lead to the FG black lead etc.

Even clamping my current probe around the FG red lead causes frequency shifts etc.

Some rough measurements this way show about 100mW of input from the FG and the black box output shows only 5mW
of output, but even the slightest change around the setup will cause a strong deviation.

Using long wires between the 1n4148 diodes and the led asm. and between the coils and FG etc. is a must to get
some light, because when using an RF like setup (very short leads between components) will cause any light to
dissappear.

With other words, this setup is almost, if not completly, impossible to measure.

Itsu

Itsu,

Contrary to what most claim including Dr. Stiffler, frequencies in the MHz range are not needed for his effect to be seen with the surface mount LED array as I have successfully used frequencies in the 400-500kHz range.  Try using a higher value inductor (air core) in the 300-1000uh range for example.  I've attached a pix of my diode array with 1n4148s showing the short leads.   

Also, you might try attaching 2 scope probes to the LED leads to measure the differential voltage.  Your probes I think are 8pf and should also work to lower the required resonant frequency.

A sine wave is not really required so you can use a square wave generated from a mosfet driver or other means if you desire as the waveform at the LEDs will be sine due to the series inductor.

I am able to get reasonable light output with my Rigol generator set on sine using a 300uh inductor with a scope probe and current probe on the input.

Regards,
Pm
   
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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #54 on: 2018-06-13, 21:30:05 »
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Quote from: Slider2732 on 2018-06-13, 21:03:07
Thanks Gyula :)


Thanks too for your time and measurements on this Itsu  O0
Someone with a similar setup has always been a problem.
Your tests seem to be quite exhaustive of traditional techniques and so, a question must be, is that particular Cree bulb of Dr. Stifflers' something important to it all ?
All over the place there are different bulbs being taken apart, myself with the Dollar Tree, NickZ with his various types, Lidmotor with others and yourself with several...but none are doing what the Doc shows.
 ???

Can I ask, do you note anything different or strange about the 13.6MHz frequency ? It may answer a few more questions.

Who if I may ask, are you referring to and what is the problem?

Regards,
Pm
   
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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #55 on: 2018-06-13, 21:42:45 »

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Quote from: partzman on 2018-06-13, 21:25:06
Itsu,

Contrary to what most claim including Dr. Stiffler, frequencies in the MHz range are not needed for his effect to be seen with the surface mount LED array as I have successfully used frequencies in the 400-500kHz range.  Try using a higher value inductor (air core) in the 300-1000uh range for example.  I've attached a pix of my diode array with 1n4148s showing the short leads.   

Also, you might try attaching 2 scope probes to the LED leads to measure the differential voltage.  Your probes I think are 8pf and should also work to lower the required resonant frequency.

A sine wave is not really required so you can use a square wave generated from a mosfet driver or other means if you desire as the waveform at the LEDs will be sine due to the series inductor.

I am able to get reasonable light output with my Rigol generator set on sine using a 300uh inductor with a scope probe and current probe on the input.

Regards,
Pm

PM,

yes, i have seen your setup, but wanted to stay in the 13Mhz range.
There all these RF like problems occure, and accurate measurements are difficult,
but there really is no need to stay that high in frequency.

Itsu
   
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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #56 on: 2018-06-13, 21:44:01 »
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Hi Itsu,

Would like to ask if the Alu backed LED boards included additional circuit components which may have influenced the LEDs operation? I mean series resistors or full wave bridge or capacitors etc. 

Or you were aware of these and either removed the series components or shorted them out etc so that only the LEDs were remained in a continuous series connection and only the two 1N4148 diodes closed their circuit?

One more question if I may: when you drive an air core coil via a single wire from the hot (red) output of the generator and you find the coil's self resonance frequency (say by indicating resonance by scope probe loosely placed at a distance to the coil), then the voltage at the generator output also drops to a lower value, right? (the other end of the coil is floating for this question, no connection to the Alu plate of the LED)

Thanks,
Gyula
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #57 on: 2018-06-13, 21:45:15 »

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Using an RF like setup (short leads etc.) the resonance frequency shifted up to 15.5Mhz or so and causes the leds
("Philips Luxeon Rebel Royal Blue LED LXML PR01 Lumileds", the one with 3 leds on the strip (3 leds in series))
to be on only very dimly.

The spectrum analyzer output (loosely coupled to the 70 turn coil) shows the frequency and its harmonics, and
also shows that moving my hand across the coil / setup does not really change the frequency, but the amplitude.

For what its worth,   Itsu
   
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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #58 on: 2018-06-13, 21:52:32 »

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Quote from: gyula on 2018-06-13, 21:44:01
Hi Itsu,

Would like to ask if the Alu backed LED boards included additional circuit components which may have influenced the LEDs operation? I mean series resistors or full wave bridge or capacitors etc. 

Or you were aware of these and either removed the series components or shorted them out etc so that only the LEDs were remained in a continuous series connection and only the two 1N4148 diodes closed their circuit?

One more question if I may: when you drive an air core coil via a single wire from the hot (red) output of the generator and you find the coil's self resonance frequency (say by indicating resonance by scope probe loosely placed at a distance to the coil), then the voltage at the generator output also drops to a lower value, right? (the other end of the coil is floating for this question, no connection to the Alu plate of the LED)

Thanks,
Gyula

Hi Gyula,

no, the alu backed LED boards i used did not have any additional components, just the leds (some with SMD) in a series / parallel configuration.

When using a scope probe laying ontop of the 70 turn coil without the leds connected, then at resonance  the scope shows an increase in amplitude, so different
from when i connect that probe across the FG output leads and with the leds connected  (higher frequency though, like 18Mhz)


Edited this post!!!


Itsu
   
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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #59 on: 2018-06-13, 21:57:30 »

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editted above post,  itsu
   
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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #60 on: 2018-06-13, 22:09:15 »
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Okay Itsu,  thanks.   

Dr Stiffler just uploaded a short video, he excites capacitively one of the diodes in a series chain of 1N4148s and measures the loop current by a microamper meter.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZX56Ocniz_Y

Gyula
   
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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #61 on: 2018-06-13, 23:21:17 »
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... .-.. .. -.. . .-.
pm - just the original experimenters who were vocal on the boards, such as myself, Lidmotor, NickZ.
There didn't seem to be anyone with similar equipment to Dr. Stiffler, especially the 20V output and so we have had the whole crystals and accompanying circuits foray. Tinman had the gear, but has been busy with building another project.
This topic went quiet here and the other over at OU kept trundling along without such equipment being used.

Edit - have watched the new vid and I don't think he mentions the signal frequency. Would folks expect the result on the analog meter to change with different driving frequencies of the L3 coil...or....not.
If yes, then how does the diode pick up the sig gen output, through its wires ? and if that is true, then would 1 diode with super long wires also pick up 98uA ?


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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #62 on: 2018-06-14, 00:19:52 »

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Buy me some coffee
I am at a loss as to what it is that it trying to be shown here. ???

What exactly is so mystical about the Doc's circuit,or the way it performs ?.'


Brad


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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #63 on: 2018-06-14, 02:04:59 »
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The following is one example of what I have experienced with Dr Stiffler's device under unique input conditions to the LED array back plane with no claims or statements, just observations to be made.

Basically, I'm driving the back plane of a Dollar Tree LED array with a toroidal ATL (asymmetrical transmission line) tuned to resonate at one wavelength which is determined by the inductance of a winding placed over a foil ground plane.  The drive point for the LED is a center tap of the coil which is a high voltage, low current node in the transmission line.  The reason for using this device is that can produce reasonably high voltage sine waves at the higher frequencies.  This particular one is operating at 837kHz and is driven by an Ixys mosfet driver with a 20vdc supply.  This is single wire however, the center tap of the 2-1N4148s is returned to one end of an open ended smaller coil wound over the first part of the transmission line inductor.  This improves the efficiency and light efficacy.

The pix show the intensity of the array laying on the table surface.  It is extremely bright and hurts to look at directly.

The first scope shot is the input measurements and has the follow trace ids: CH1(yel) is the input pulse to the ATL, CH2(blu) is the voltage on the - input to the LED array, CH3(pnk) is the voltage on the +input of the LED array, CH4 is the input current to the ATL, and the Math channel is the input mean power which is shown as 2.774w.

The second scope pix has the same probe ids but CH4 now shows the current into the LED back plane and the Math channel shows the output power of the array which is seen as 50.75mw mean.  This measurement is taken from the differential measurement of the voltage across the LEDs times the instantaneous current integrated over time or (CH3-CH2)xCh4.

I used an AEMC light meter with probe that had a paper tube 3" long placed over the sensor element with the array attached.  I have the proper metal fixtures to do absolute light measurements, but the presence of the fixtures disturbed the resonance so the measurements taken were only relative.  So for reference, the dc levels required to obtain the same light output as the high frequency input to the array were 58.70v at 12.82ma resulting in a power of 0.753w.

Regards,
Pm 



 
   
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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #64 on: 2018-06-14, 02:20:53 »
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It's turtles all the way down
Very good and careful analysis PM, thanks for taking the time to do this.  O0

Now, can anyone answer Brad's question posted earlier? Reply #62

regards


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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #65 on: 2018-06-14, 09:33:40 »

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Just for reference, below is the diagram i used to do my measurements, but without the 1 Ohm csr's.
Its taken from this video:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTSMNB4h9U8



PM, 

i also can increase the light output of the leds by attaching my scope probes / ground probes on severall
places, but that also means you alter the original setup.

If i use the bare diagram without any probes attached, the light on the leds only glows, and is never as bright
as Dr. Stiffler shows in his video's.

How is your led output when nothing attached and using the components as shown on the diagram (using a 70 turn
½ inch former coil for L3)?


I have no idea what the fuss is all about, but i think it has something to do with the used frequency of
about 13Mhz which seems to have something mystical about it.

Both PM as i have shown that you can use any other frequency (coil) with the same results.

The mystery to me is why are Dr. Stifflers leds so bright (his below circuit) while others only can obtain
moderate light output using 20Vpp from a FG.


Itsu
   
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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #66 on: 2018-06-14, 14:45:15 »

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Buy me some coffee
Quote from: Itsu on 2018-06-14, 09:33:40
Just for reference, below is the diagram i used to do my measurements, but without the 1 Ohm csr's.
Its taken from this video:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTSMNB4h9U8



PM, 

i also can increase the light output of the leds by attaching my scope probes / ground probes on severall
places, but that also means you alter the original setup.

If i use the bare diagram without any probes attached, the light on the leds only glows, and is never as bright
as Dr. Stiffler shows in his video's.

How is your led output when nothing attached and using the components as shown on the diagram (using a 70 turn
½ inch former coil for L3)?


I have no idea what the fuss is all about, but i think it has something to do with the used frequency of
about 13Mhz which seems to have something mystical about it.

Both PM as i have shown that you can use any other frequency (coil) with the same results.

The mystery to me is why are Dr. Stifflers leds so bright (his below circuit) while others only can obtain
moderate light output using 20Vpp from a FG.


Itsu

Itsu

Could you draw out a proper schematic,as i cant make heads or tails of that chook scratching


Vrad


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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #67 on: 2018-06-14, 14:53:24 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2018-06-14, 09:33:40
Just for reference, below is the diagram i used to do my measurements, but without the 1 Ohm csr's.
Its taken from this video:   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTSMNB4h9U8



PM, 

i also can increase the light output of the leds by attaching my scope probes / ground probes on severall
places, but that also means you alter the original setup.

If i use the bare diagram without any probes attached, the light on the leds only glows, and is never as bright
as Dr. Stiffler shows in his video's.

How is your led output when nothing attached and using the components as shown on the diagram (using a 70 turn
½ inch former coil for L3)?


I have no idea what the fuss is all about, but i think it has something to do with the used frequency of
about 13Mhz which seems to have something mystical about it.

Both PM as i have shown that you can use any other frequency (coil) with the same results.

The mystery to me is why are Dr. Stifflers leds so bright (his below circuit) while others only can obtain
moderate light output using 20Vpp from a FG.


Itsu

Itsu,

OK, I wound a 70T 25 awg coil on a 1/2" former and tested the circuit with only the current probe and scope probe connected to the input wire from the Rigol SG.  The first pix below shows the light from the Dollar Tree array.  The resonant frequency was 17.437MHz and the coil measured 17.44uH meaning the series resonant circuit capacitance was 4.77pf.  The loaded sine wave from the SG was 13.1v p-p.

So, I added turns to the coil above until I had 31.4uH to resonate with the 4.77pf circuit capacitance and the resonant frequency ended up to be 13.137MHz.  The loaded SG voltage was 12.17v p-p for this version.

The second pix shows the light from this test and I didn't have the camera angle consistent so the pix may appear slightly different but in fact they appeared to be the same intensity to these old eyes!

The brightness in Dr. Stifflers video could be the result of two factors.  One, Cree makes really efficient Leds and you won't find them in DT for a buck!  Two, the sensitivity of his camera image element could account for some light blooming.  Notice in his video the reflection of the overhead fluorescent light in his scope screen for example.  I'm sure if we used Cree arrays and had better regulated output on our SGs, we would have the same light intensity results neglecting camera differences.

As Dr. Stiffler admits, his measurements are way off because no consideration is given to phase angles and the added capacitance and inductance of his meter leads.  However, I think his measurements have influenced some into thinking this device may produce OU and that is the lure IMO.  The fact remains that it appears to be a single wire series resonant circuit coupled to any surrounding ground via the permittivity of air which is ~8.85pf/M.  This is evidenced by the lowering of the resonant frequency along with an increase in light output if a lead or plate is attached to the junction of the 1N4148 diodes.

Regards,
Pm
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #68 on: 2018-06-14, 15:08:54 »

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Quote from: TinMan on 2018-06-14, 14:45:15
Itsu

Could you draw out a proper schematic,as i cant make heads or tails of that chook scratching


Vrad

Sure,   something like this:


Itsu
   
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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #69 on: 2018-06-14, 15:10:05 »

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Buy me some coffee
So,is this all about how much power you can transmit with one wire?
If so,it seems you have a ways to go yet

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qz1-RIcj1HY.

Check out the distance between the driver,and the driven--hows that for capacitive coupling distance  O0


Brad


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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #70 on: 2018-06-14, 15:13:44 »

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Buy me some coffee
Quote from: Itsu on 2018-06-14, 15:08:54
Sure,   something like this:


Itsu

Thanks


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img  Itsu
Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #71 on: 2018-06-14, 15:24:36 »

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Quote from: partzman on 2018-06-14, 14:53:24
Itsu,

OK, I wound a 70T 25 awg coil on a 1/2" former and tested the circuit with only the current probe and scope probe connected to the input wire from the Rigol SG.  The first pix below shows the light from the Dollar Tree array.  The resonant frequency was 17.437MHz and the coil measured 17.44uH meaning the series resonant circuit capacitance was 4.77pf.  The loaded sine wave from the SG was 13.1v p-p.

So, I added turns to the coil above until I had 31.4uH to resonate with the 4.77pf circuit capacitance and the resonant frequency ended up to be 13.137MHz.  The loaded SG voltage was 12.17v p-p for this version.

The second pix shows the light from this test and I didn't have the camera angle consistent so the pix may appear slightly different but in fact they appeared to be the same intensity to these old eyes!

The brightness in Dr. Stifflers video could be the result of two factors.  One, Cree makes really efficient Leds and you won't find them in DT for a buck!  Two, the sensitivity of his camera image element could account for some light blooming.  Notice in his video the reflection of the overhead fluorescent light in his scope screen for example.  I'm sure if we used Cree arrays and had better regulated output on our SGs, we would have the same light intensity results neglecting camera differences.

As Dr. Stiffler admits, his measurements are way off because no consideration is given to phase angles and the added capacitance and inductance of his meter leads.  However, I think his measurements have influenced some into thinking this device may produce OU and that is the lure IMO.  The fact remains that it appears to be a single wire series resonant circuit coupled to any surrounding ground via the permittivity of air which is ~8.85pf/M.  This is evidenced by the lowering of the resonant frequency along with an increase in light output if a lead or plate is attached to the junction of the 1N4148 diodes.

Regards,
Pm


Thanks PM,  much appreciated,  it shows similar led output as i have (dimly, i can count the 3 individual
led points within my leds), so confirms my findings.

Even the resonance frequency is similar (15 - 18Mhz range depending on the used wire lengths).

So yes, the Cree leds used are imho the main cause of the brighter lights shown in his video, but the used
camera could also be adding to that.

I never had the impression that there was any OU involved, so like you i consider this nothing unusual, untill
Dr. Stiffler leads us further with this all.

Regards Itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #72 on: 2018-06-14, 20:58:48 »

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Found the below diagram on energeticforum.com in the Dr. Stiffler thread:

http://www.energeticforum.com/309901-post309.html


I notice that the FG return line (black) is inbetween the 2  1n4148 diodes, something that is not visible in the video's from the Dr.


FWIW,   itsu
   
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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #73 on: 2018-06-14, 21:25:19 »
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itsu
is this the same Schem from post number 37
here

https://overunity.com/17249/dr-ronald-stiffler-sec-technology/30/




EDIT
now I see its the same reference number
   
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Re: Dr. Stiffler returns with a new device: SFM « Reply #74 on: 2018-06-14, 22:27:38 »

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Yes Chet,  looks like it,   did not know it was there too.


itsu
   
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