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Author Topic: The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit  (Read 459773 times)
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Hi guys,

I'm wondering about proper protocol on the discussion of the operation of the circuit ....

The thread started at OU by hartiberlin on the Rosemary Ainslie circuit demonstration on Saturday March 12th 2011 was started on 02-21-2011 with experimentation on a one (1) mosfet device under test shown by the attached image as the done deal experimental device with documented results.

The discussion "NOW" 04-27-2011 two (2) months later is on a five (5) mosfet design under testing with the circuit diagram in my posting #448

What if any does the Lecroy oscilloscope wave forms downloaded on 02-09-2011 and 02-22-2011 a one (1) mosfet circuit have to do with anything on the present five (5) mosfet circuit being discussed by Rosemary "NOW" here and here ?

I'm not accustom to grab anything that fits a need at the time, is this the "pasta" method of research and development .... what ever sticks "use it" on a ongoing done deal experimental device :o

Glen
 ???
   
Group: Guest
Well no response from Rosie to my questions and she is ignoring my comments.

Interestingly enough, the requests to measure across the current sensing resistor with a low-pass filter and a multimeter set to DC volts to make a measurement of the average current flowing through the resistor are now moot.  In light of the "surprise" about the wiring of the circuit that measurement now becomes invalid.  It would show what appeared to be average current flowing back into the battery bank.  What it would really be showing would be average current flowing into the function generator.

In other words, the DSO was indeed not lying with respect to the average voltage indicating current flowing in the counter-intuitive direction.

The root of the problem is that with the new MOSFET wiring configuration, the current sensing resistor was no longer an indication of the battery current.

Think about this example:  You build some sort of a circuit with capacitors, inductors and resistors.  You make your measurements on it and with your trusty scope you understand how it works.  Then you take a 12-volt battery and connect it to the ground of the circuit and connect a 50-ohm resistor to the positive terminal.  You connect the resistor up to some random component in your circuit.  When you do this you innately know that chances are the battery is going to be injecting current into the circuit.  You know that this will change your measurements because the extra battery is disturbing your circuit.

In Rosemary's case it's the function generator outputting -5 volts at up to two minutes at a time that is acting exactly like the extra battery.  It's disturbing the circuit and when you throw in the miswired MOSFET "surprise" you end up with a whole new ballgame.

The sole purpose of the function generator in the original Rosemary circuit was to switch the MOSFET(S) on and off and have a negligible affect on the circuit otherwise.  All of the action was supposed to be between the MOSFET acting like an ON-OFF switch and the inductive resistor.

In the new circuit you have the function generator now acting as a biasing voltage/power source for a totally unrelated oscillator that is not directly involved in starting and stopping the current flow through the heating element.

In the background the heating element is still being switched on and off by Q2, and discharging into the -5 volts of the function generator.  So there is still a quasi "Ainslie" process taking place.  It's not a clean ON-OFF style waveform with a very sharp square-wave waveform.  With a more sloped waveform instead, the MOSFET is operating in partial conduction mode a substantial amount of time, in other words it's acting like a resistor.  That's why there is a substantial amount power being dissipated in Q2, almost as much as is being dissipated in the heating element itself.

Anyway, I hope some of you are getting this.  I am willing to discuss.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Something that maybe throwing people off, when I say "Discharging into the function generator."  It sounds weird.

Of course the function generator is really acting like a -5 volt battery with a 50-ohm output impedance.

Batteries are sources of potential, and they remain fixed at that potential.  In that sense they are almost like "elevated grounds."   You can discharge current into a battery, or discharge current out of a battery, and it will still remain fixed at 12.6 volts.  Almost like the ground remains at zero volts if you discharge current into it or discharge current out of it (to a below-ground potential.)

So yes, the current flowing through the heating element can indeed discharge into the -5 volt potential being supplied by the function generator via Q2.  And the current sensing resistor does not see this discharge.

Waxing philosophical for a second, shame on Rosemary for knowingly putting up DSO captures with a mismatched schematic.  Perhaps she thought that she had a "really cool surprise" for us because of some "fortunate miswiring" but what it really did was create a lot of agony and rancor for a long time.  It delayed the understanding of the waveforms for months.  Let this be a lesson for all.  You need an accurate schematic and when I read so many "verbal schematic" discussions on the forums it makes me cringe.

MileHigh
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Guys,

Just relax and be patient. Allow me some time to continue presenting the information. We are getting to the point where all your questions will be answered.

Appreciated, thanks,  ;)

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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Guys,

Just relax and be patient. Allow me some time to continue presenting the information. We are getting to the point where all your questions will be answered.

Appreciated, thanks,  ;)

.99

Hi Poynt,

No problem ....

I did do some testing on my personal equipment and found a huge ground loop through my Protek Function Generators 50 ohm BNC output connector shell (negative) to my Tektronix 2445A oscilloscope BNC 50 ohm test probe "ground" connection from the equipment utility line AC power (120v - 240v) grounded cord and plug ends.

Also theres added grounding resistance in a utility power supply AC system ( 120/240volt or 240volt ) is around 10 ohms to ground, more or less grounded through rods or plates buried in the earth.

Glen
 :)
   
Group: Guest
Hi Poynt,

That's fine.  I could sense your approach and I still indulged myself and plowed forward like a proverbial bull in a china shop.  I will let you get the message through.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
Hi everyone,

I just saw something of interest in on of the last page of thread postings ...

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10407.msg283810#msg283810
Quote

Ok guys.  I really need to move on.  What I've done is this.  I can't take a photo of the set up as it is at the moment because my other computer has been rifled and doctored with a virus.  And that holds my photobucket software.  But what I have done is a whole lot of tests to see if I can explain this.  NOTA BENE ALL.  The ground of the signal generator is MOST CERTAINLY at the point marked B on the video.  In other words it's BEFORE THE CSR.  And by the way - it makes not an ounce of difference if it's there or if it's positioned as shown in our DEMO diagram. So.  Right now the CSR is precisely in series with and on the same rail as the negative terminal of the battery supply which then conforms to my circuit variation of 'a poynted revision' shown earlier.

Then.  I took the tests through an extreme range of duty cycle tests - most on - most off.  This shows the advantage of the oscillation as it relates to the temperature rise.  THEN I did a whole lot more tests to show the subtleties of the off set.  I took the temperature to 240 degrees and climbing.  But I started melting the plastic container - so I filled it with water.  It took the water temperature to plus/minus 80 degrees and climbing.  I think I'm dissipating upwards of 120 watts - but will only confirm this in the morning.  The test has been running for the last 4 hours.  And right now - on the highest frequency setting I'm FINALLY seeing evidence of battery voltage actually climbing.  So is the water temperature rising - and I'm not sure how much longer I can sit up.  I'm exhausted and there's nothing interesting on television to ease the boredom.

The point is this.  There is absolutely no difference in where we position the ground of the functions generator.  With the exception of a short 5 minutes where the offset started rising (it gets a mind of its own) there have been absolutely NO VALUES of the cycle mean - the mean - or the math trace showing anything other than a negative value. And that's notwithstanding the clear evidence of dissipation of wattage in excess of 100 watts.  And I am FINALLY seeing a stable 'kick off' voltage over the batteries.  It needs a high frequency.

I'll do the downloads in the moring and walk you through the different settings as they relate to the temperature rise.

PLEASE DO NOT PAY ANY ATTENTION TO POYNTY's ENDLESS INNUENDOS AND HINTS AND INTERRUPTIONS.  He is talking a whole lot of nonsense.  When I've done those downloads - I will then walk you through my own take on what is happening.  You can take it on board - or not - as required.  And Peter and Ron - as ever.  Thanks for the interventions.  It gets rather lonely in this corner of mine. And I missed your post there woopy.  Thank you.  It's always heartening and frankly, was much needed.

I'm reasonably sure that there will be those readers here who will be delighted at this.  And by the same token there will be those who are not.  lol.

Kindest regards,
Rosie   

Just checked.  Water showing some really small bubbles.  We're at sea level but the temperature reading is now 104 degrees c.  Shouldn't it be boiling at this level?  Anyway - the voltage on the batteries now at 60 from an early 59.7.  I really need to turn it off.  I'll do the screen shot downloads first thing tomorrow.  I'm also not sure how much water in that container. I think it's about a litre.  I'll check this tomorrow as well.

edited.  Added comments and corrected the spelling - I hope.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2011, 01:01:05 AM by Rosemary Ainslie »

And that's notwithstanding the clear evidence of dissipation of wattage in excess of 100 watts.

In the place "NOW" that Rosemary says the CSR shunt resistor is, could the four (4) 10 watt wire wound resistor shunt bank work ? A 100 watt load is quite substantial for these small shunt resistors ?  :o

Glen
 ;)

 
   

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Hi Glen.

If there was a true 100W being dissipated in the load resistor, those big shunt resistors would hardly "feel it". I am certain that the load could receive 500W and they would only be warm to the touch.

At least she finally admitted that my circuit drawing was correct in reference to the demonstration video. Sure took a long time to get that simple fact out of her.  C.C

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
Group: Guest
Hi Glen.

If there was a true 100W being dissipated in the load resistor, those big shunt resistors would hardly "feel it". I am certain that the load could receive 500W and they would only be warm to the touch.

At least she finally admitted that my circuit drawing was correct in reference to the demonstration video. Sure took a long time to get that simple fact out of her.  C.C

.99

Hi Poynt,

Yes your right about the circuit drawing Protoboard_schema_added2.png being the accurate schematic used in the RA demonstration in March  O0

But .... the "PUBLISHED" schematic on her blog http://newlightondarkenergy.blogspot.com/2011/04/109-simulated-circuit.html would be "NOW" incorrect and appears to be where she changed the N Mosfets standard (G) Gate (S) Source and (D) Drain established nomenclature and pin positions plus omitted the important internal body diode between the (S) source and (D) Drain.

Glen
 :)
   
Group: Guest
Hi everyone,

I see groundloop was so kind to make a great diagram (link) which appears to be the same wiring configuration published on the RA blog post #109 (link)

The odd thing is Rosemary posted ... it's wrong  :o

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10407.msg283963#msg283963

Quote
Not quite Groundloop. But I've thought of something.  I could sketch what's needed - scan it and then send it to you.  Then you could make sense of it better.

Many thanks for your efforts nonetheless.

Kindest as ever,
Rosie

added I should be able to do this during the morning.  I still have your email address.  I'll get back to you here.

I hope someone tells Rosemary you can only hook up six (6) electronic components ( CSR and five mosfets ) so many ways .... IMHO she used all the combination's now  ???

Yep that pesky N Mosfet internal body diode between the (S) Source and the (D) Drain ..... what to do  C.C

Glen
 :)
   
Group: Guest
Hi everyone,

Well ..... I knew that somewhere there was a experimental setup of 5 parallel IRFPG50 N MOSFET's (PDF) paper I've seen ... it's on a current hogging phenomenon with possibly some useful information.

Fuzzy
 :)

   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Hi everyone,

I see groundloop was so kind to make a great diagram (link) which appears to be the same wiring configuration published on the RA blog post #109 (link)

The odd thing is Rosemary posted ... it's wrong  :o

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=10407.msg283963#msg283963

I hope someone tells Rosemary you can only hook up six (6) electronic components ( CSR and five mosfets ) so many ways .... IMHO she used all the combination's now  ???

Yep that pesky N Mosfet internal body diode between the (S) Source and the (D) Drain ..... what to do  C.C

Glen
 :)

Indeed Glen,

Rose has moved the goal posts once again, and we're trying to get confirmation of this diagram.

I predict that her "problem" with it has to do with some strange notion of hers about the Q2 connection. It is correct as shown unless she has changed that too, and withheld that information as she has been doing already.

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
Group: Guest
Unfortunately this saga is now two-thirds psychodrama and one-third technical discussion.  When Rosemary is crying out for the readers to ignore the sensible and logical technical statements made by Poynt and attacking his technical competence then you know that things are going downhill fast.  The "smokescreen effect" where Rosie tries to avoid answering questions by playing the psychodrama card are tedious and annoying and the effect doesn't work on me.  There are probably about 10 important and relevant technical questions that Rosemary is trying to avoid answering.

Anyway, I have already explained what's going on in the circuit and I'll assume that most of the followers of both threads have read the comments.

It's obvious that Rosemary had no idea what really transpired with her circuit when she started playing with the function generator offset and miswired some extra MOSFETs.  Poynt is very patiently trying to get Rosie and the non-technical audience to fully understand what the circuit is actually doing.

Let the drama continue...
   
Group: Guest
Hi everyone,

I found some good information on the inner portion of a MOSFET and the operation of the substrate .....

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk15/fuzzytomcat/IRFPG50_Mosfet_diagram.jpg
The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit


http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk15/fuzzytomcat/Power_MOSFET_Circuit.jpg
The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit


http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk15/fuzzytomcat/Power_MOSFET_Cross_Section.jpg
The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit


http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk15/fuzzytomcat/Power_MOSFET_Cross_Section_Under_Avalanche.jpg
The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit


Figure 6, 7 and 8 Images from the attached (PDF) International Rectifier - Application Note AN-1005 - Power MOSFET Avalanche Design Guidelines

Glen
 :)
   
Group: Guest
About the Ainslie circuit:

When Rosie miswired the extra MOSFETs she modified the circuit.

Let's start with the original circuit.

The current starts at the battery positive terminal and flows through the heating element and then the Q1 MOSFET and then through the shunt resistor and then into the battery negative terminal.

Let's call the end of the loop, the Q1 MOSFET to shunt resistor to the battery negative terminal "Path A."

Now let's look at the simplified version of the circuit that adds the miswired Q2.

With the Q2 addition, there is now a second path that the current can take.

The second path is as follows: <battery positive terminal to heating element> then the current flows through the Q2 MOSFET then into the function generator and then into the battery negative terminal.

Let's call this a second end of the loop, "Path B."

So here is what happened:

Rosie worked with the original circuit and the end of the current loop was always following Path A.

She then added Q2 and played with the offset of the function generator.

What happened as a result of this is that Q1 was shut off permanently, so Path A was now closed to the flow of current.

What also happened was that Q2 switched on, and the current flow started taking Path B, bypassing the shunt resistor.

Unfortunately, Rosie was not aware that this happened.  For months she was in total ignorance of this fact and made regular postings stating that she had a circuit that was "COP infinity."

It's as simple as that.   The current flow jumped from Path A to Path B and Rosie was not aware of this and claimed COP infinity.

Poynt asked Rosie to explain how a MOSFET works and she was unable to do this.  This supports the notion that for months Rosie was blissfully unaware.

As luck would have it, the circuit also started to oscillate, and Rosie saw the oscillation waveform as being an indication of the current flow but this was never the case, the current was taking Path B the whole time.

And now, we are in a struggle to get Rosie and presumably many others to see this.  I tried above to lay it out in black and white for you, I hope it gets through to some of you.

The two MOSFETS in the circuit ended up acting like a double-pole-single-throw toggle switch for the current flow.  Rosie was simply not aware of this fact.

This means that there can't be any "EXPERTS" because if I recall the experts were supposed to be in on the subterfuge about the miswired MOSFET.  Anybody with basic electronics knowledge would be able to figure out this MOSFET switching business in one day, and some in five minutes.

Since Rosie is sticking to her story and won't budge, we are left with a "Who's Afraid of Virgina Wolf" psychodrama and it's just ridiculous.

I think a lot of the lurkers on the forums should speak up.  You want a place where you encourage each other to do better.  Look at how ridiculously Rosie has refused for months and months to do alternative tests and dismisses them as irrelevant when at the same times it's staring everybody in the face that she knows nothing about electronics.  The schematics fiasco is also unacceptable.  This is a form of intellectual stagnation disguised as research.

So that's another recap of the story as far as I am concerned.

Yikes!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIcPN7CTCOg[/youtube]
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Hi MH.

Have a look at the latest posts. It will make you go  C.C

I am almost at my wits-end trying to understand her, and as such, I have open pleas to the other readers to explain it to me. I can not make heads nor tails of her babble. The latest business is something about the FG ground. Now apparently, they have moved the CSR to the place shown.

Good grief!

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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Poynt:

Yes Rosemary is all over the map.  Interesting that she acknowledged the inductive effects on the shunt resistor after many months of refusing that.  I sense panic about the placement of the shunt resistor and she is really inarticulate with respect to describing how things are connected.

The "new" circuit is you faithfully implementing on paper what Rosemary posted on OU.  But there is a disconnect with Rosie between her attempts to describe circuitry and what she is really thinking.  So I think that diagram is invalid.  I can't comment except to say that the setup is obviously not like that.

Rosie:  You have to produce schematics.  In the electronics realm, what you are doing is a Cardinal sin.  You simply have to produce accurate schematics.  These hodge-podge verbal descriptions you make about circuit connections are very difficult to decipher.  For a woman who is normally very articulate how come you are a total mess when it comes to describing circuit connections?  Just produce accurate schematics.

Good luck again.

MileHigh
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Perhaps all this new nonsense is simply a distraction?

Maybe she really doesn't want me to replicate the circuit, and sending all of us on a wild goose chase such as it seems were are currently running, would do well in accomplishing that task.

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
Group: Guest
Hi everyone,

I guess it's alright and excepted to present documentation to www.overunity.com that's "FALSE" as the last four (4) circuit diagrams posted by Rosemary Ainslie on her BS COP>infinity device.

In submitting a alternate ID screen name as Stefan requested, because of myself and others truthfully FLAMING the thread with existing documented material substantiating all my and others position and past history .

I was REQUIRED to agree to this ( first paragraph shown ) at OU.com to be a thread posting member again .....  ???

Quote
You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not  post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law. You also agree not to post any copyrighted material unless you own the copyright or you have written consent from the owner of the copyrighted material. Spam, flooding, advertisements, chain letters, pyramid schemes, and solicitations are also forbidden on this forum.

This device under test was to be a "DONE DEAL" at the time of the beginning of posting .... WTF is going on here ? This is not right at all no way no how !!  >:(

Fuzzy
 :)
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
That's a relatively easy one to get out of....just simply claim ignorance!

If Stefan did not tolerate a staggering amount of ignorance, he would have to dislodge a good number of the members there. I think Rose would make the top 10 list in that regard.

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
Group: Guest
That's a relatively easy one to get out of....just simply claim ignorance!

If Stefan did not tolerate a staggering amount of ignorance, he would have to dislodge a good number of the members there. I think Rose would make the top 10 list in that regard.

.99

Hi Poynt,

I do see your point but being in light of the 10 year past history and the last posting at OU  Reply #1121 (link)

http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk15/fuzzytomcat/RA_going_crazy_image_RA-107-051a.jpg
The Rosemary Ainslie Circuit


With whats underlined alone is enough to put that claim of ignorance to rest .... what a load of crap !!

Look at all the blind foolish "idiots" at OU that line up behind her day after day as if shes gods gift to science .... maybe Frankenstein dark science type of stuff and that even a stretch of blind faith.

Glen
 :)
   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
Yeah, I was quite alarmed and had a real good chuckle at all those so-called endorsements as well.

It's all part of the pattern we've seen before.


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
Group: Guest
Quote
Guys - more good news.  A friend of mine has done a full on replication.  I've downloaded waveforms.  I'll post it later.  All negative values.  Two fets attached to a common heatsink running a standard 9 Ohm 12 volt automotive soldering iron.  It was cooking - but we didn't have the means to measure the heat.  Actually we did.  Just forgot to do this.  Too hot to handle - in any event.  Probably in the region of 80 degrees or more.

Anyway he did a short video on this.  I'll upload it when I get my computer back.  And I'll upload the screen shots tomorrow morning.  Very simple config. I think it's going to be very easy for you guys to replicate this.  Crocodile clips - crude connections - but everything working.  And everything permanently in NEGATIVE - as with our own tests.  You should also be able to see the required waveform on your standard oscilloscopes.

Anyway.  That's the first FULL ON replication.

Kindest regards,
Rosie

This is great news!  Hopefully some of Rosie's supporters will replicate.  Hopefully they will work on making proper measurements.  If that's done then we will find out the truth.

Think about putting an extra current-sensing-resistor between Q2 and the signal generator.

MileHigh
   
Group: Guest
This is great news!  Hopefully some of Rosie's supporters will replicate.  Hopefully they will work on making proper measurements.  If that's done then we will find out the truth.

Think about putting an extra current-sensing-resistor between Q2 and the signal generator.

MileHigh

Well this is interesting a actual RA replication (link) .....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_%28scientific_method%29
Quote
Reproducibility is one of the main principles of the scientific method, and refers to the ability of a test or experiment to be accurately reproduced, or replicated, by someone else working independently.

The results of an experiment performed by a particular researcher or group of researchers are generally evaluated by other independent researchers who repeat the same experiment themselves, based on the original experimental description (see independent review). Then they see if their experiment gives similar results to those reported by the original group. The result values are said to be commensurate if they are obtained (in distinct experimental trials) according to the same reproducible experimental description and procedure.

Ahhhh .... Does anyone know exactly which circuit in the documented RA release of every incomplete including questionable results on the now five devices being somehow "REPLICATED" in the COP> INFINITY arrangement ??  ???

ALSO .... in the Scientific Method for peer review ......  :D

Glen
 :)



   

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It's not as complicated as it may seem...
I would venture to say that this guy's build is based on the original circuit from the demonstration video.

The funny thing about all this, is that she outright admitted twice that the CSR was in the incorrect place for proper measurement, yet she will not retract her claims that the measurements show COP>1. What boggles my mind about this, is everyone at OU simply sits by and condones this bizarre behavior, all the while I'm chastised for introducing an innocent poll that even Rose herself indicated was harmless. Imagine that?

The mass hypnosis over there is entrenched much deeper than I had ever imagined.

Will be interesting to see this so-called replication. I already know what is wrong with the so-called measurements btw. ;)

 C.C

.99


---------------------------
"Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa
   
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