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Author Topic: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench  (Read 223584 times)
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img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1400 on: 2021-07-04, 16:01:10 »
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   Vasik:
   Yes, I have also made my Kacher run off of the 28t coil. That is, after being rectified, filtered, and back into the Kacher input.
   Yet, Ruslan said that the Kacher does not need to be very strong. Geo thinks that the stronger the Kacher is, the more output will be seen.
   I get that the PP is not supposed to run the load. But, it does. Yet, on Geo's device, the PP won't run, unless the Kacher is also on. Not so on mine.
   Vasik, I recommend that you install a ferrite rod, as the one found in the old radios. As without it your Kacher signal will be weak. Otherwise, nice going with your replication.

   NickZ

   PS. Alien Grey:
   Seems that you have a problem with seeing, but not believing, that the simple kacher has been shown to work, and allows the device to self run, by three different people.
  Adrian probably paid with his life, for what he is showing.  Fakes, you say...
Or is it that you enjoy being a pain in the...  While you are showing nothing, for years, and years, and only to bitch at me, whenever you can.
Thanks buddy. Open your eyes...
   Adrian Guska:  https://youtu.be/zbXs0V18fkI
   
« Last Edit: 2021-07-04, 17:05:57 by NickZ »
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1401 on: 2021-07-04, 16:53:57 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-07-04, 11:31:39
Itsu,

why is inductor circuit stronger ? Have you made some changes ?

For one frequency tuning I use procedure like this:
1. Disconnect gradient coil
2. Tune inductor circuit to resonate on desired frequency
3. Disconnect inductor circuit
4. Re-connect gradient coil and tune gradient coil circuit to resonate on desired frequency
5. Re-connect inductor circuit, frequency will "jump up"
6. Increase both inductor and gradient coil capacitors 50% each (or same proportion) until you get desired frequency back

From later Stalker messages it seems that 25-28 turn coil is not needed. I.e. coils layout can look like in Alexeev's device. There is smaller connection between load and push pull in such layout.
Hope this helps.

Vasik

Vasik,

the Inductor circuit has always been stronger i think (22App v 15App for the Grenade)


I will try your tuning procedure.

Itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1402 on: 2021-07-04, 16:55:07 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-07-04, 14:20:11
  Itsu:
  You mentioned: "I have my doubts if my kacher is working correctly as the HF created by it is minimal in my opinion".

     I agree with you. I doubt that with your current Kacher signal output you would see much of an interaction. Have you tried to increase the voltage/current on the base of the 2SC5200.  I think that that may still be your problem.

    I posted the older video of my Kacher, and how it could power loads of several amps, through the yoke/grenade circuits, not mAs.
You wanted third party comparisons... and other opinions. There you have it.

   NickZ


Nick, 

thanks for the info.

I agree with PW, my kacher is pulsed, so in average weaker, but still i think i lack some power in it, not sure where it comes from.

I will look into tweaking the base current.


Itsu
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1403 on: 2021-07-04, 16:58:49 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-07-04, 16:01:10
   Vasik:
   Yes, I have also made my Kacher run off of the 28t coil. That is, after being rectified, filtered, and back into the Kacher input.
   Yet, Ruslan said that the Kacher does not need to be very strong. Geo thinks that the stronger the Kacher is, the more output will be seen.
   I get that the PP is not supposed to run the load. But, it does. Yet, on Geo's device, the PP won't run, unless the Kacher is also on. Not so on mine.
   Vasik, I recommend that you install a ferrite rod, as the one found in the old radios. As without it your Kacher signal will be weak. Otherwise, nice going with your replication.

   NickZ
Nick,

Yes, I will install ferrite rod when I get closer to tuning kacher.

BTW if you remove filtering caps you will get your kacher modulated with push pull frequency

Vasik
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1404 on: 2021-07-04, 17:02:24 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-07-04, 16:53:57
Vasik,
the Inductor circuit has always been stronger i think (22App v 15App for the Grenade)
I will try your tuning procedure.
Itsu

Itsu,

it is probably ok if you get enough voltage (200-300v) on grenade capacitor to feed into PSU.

Vasik
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1405 on: 2021-07-04, 17:27:17 »
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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-07-04, 16:58:49
Nick,

Yes, I will install ferrite rod when I get closer to tuning kacher.

BTW if you remove filtering caps you will get your kacher modulated with push pull frequency

Vasik


   Why would I want to run the Kacher on the same frequency as the push pull circuit? Perhaps I don't understand. In any case, I'm not running my Kacher from the 28t coil, at this time.
   I have also tried running the Kacher off the feed back circuit's output, along with the yoke/grenade circuits. But so far I have had no luck there, as well. So, I still have the Kacher connected to batteries, or to an 18v laptop adapter. As my 12v,  batteries don't last too long here.

   NickZ
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1406 on: 2021-07-04, 17:34:49 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-07-04, 17:27:17
   Why would I want to run the Kacher on the same frequency as the push pull circuit? Perhaps I don't understand. In

Nick,

I said modulate kacher, not run it on same frequency

Vasik
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1407 on: 2021-07-04, 17:50:37 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-07-04, 16:55:07
I agree with PW, my kacher is pulsed, so in average weaker

Itsu,

I think this is a misconception.
Modulated kacher can produce stronger effects than continuously running.

Here some illustration:
1 - controlled tesla coil
2 - same, bigger scale, there is a transient at the beginning with 2x amplitude than stationary
3 - proper tuning, only first transient used

Vasik

BTW this happen in any LC circuit with high Q

PS screenshots taken from Sergei's video called "fish with fins" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpaSH0OCvAw :)
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1408 on: 2021-07-04, 17:53:18 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-07-04, 16:53:57
Vasik,

the Inductor circuit has always been stronger i think (22App v 15App for the Grenade)


I will try your tuning procedure.

Itsu


   Itsu:  What happened to the idea of the DC pulses from the HV circuit, instead? Aren't those all AC HV pulses?


   What I have noticed is that the inductor has lower voltages, but higher amps compared to the grenade output coil circuit. As the grenade has many more turns and windings. So, for me, the grenade has higher voltage, but lower amps.
My unloaded voltage on the grenade can get close to 1000v. And my grenade tuning caps get very hot, and crack.
The induction circuit tuning caps, don't get hot, nor crack. But, I can't get the big bang off of that cap when shorted, like Ruslan shows.
We, (Geo and I), have also taken the output from the inductor coil circuit at the WIMA cap(s). Instead of at the grenade tuning caps. Although both circuits have decent output, but not good enough to self run, so far. As the feed back PS is a big load. As you'll probably see, when you get to that point.

   NickZ
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1409 on: 2021-07-04, 18:11:14 »
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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-07-04, 17:34:49
Nick,

I said modulate kacher, not run it on same frequency

Vasik


   Ok, but are you suggesting that if the pulse is taken from the grenade output circuit, and the Kacher's secondary coil is tuned to 1MHz, that the Kacher's output signal will be 1MHz. Or how to modulate in the way that you are suggesting. As I've not tried that.

   NickZ
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1410 on: 2021-07-04, 19:16:37 »
Group: Guest
Quote from: NickZ on 2021-07-04, 18:11:14
   Ok, but are you suggesting that if the pulse is taken from the grenade output circuit, and the Kacher's secondary coil is tuned to 1MHz, that the Kacher's output signal will be 1MHz. Or how to modulate in the way that you are suggesting. As I've not tried that.
   NickZ

Assuming you power kacher from 25-33 turns push pull coil like this (pic. 1)
you get kacher powered with DC.

Now if you remove filtering capacitors (pic.2) you get kacher powered with push pull pulses
which will create modulated signal (push pull frequency filed with kacher frequency).

Just in case you decide try some upgrade.

Vasik
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1411 on: 2021-07-04, 19:35:33 »
Group: Guest
   Vasik:
   Thanks for that.  I am very much open to upgrades, and am very interested in getting the 2sc5200 simple kacher to properly be able to sync with the induction circuit, and grenade, if possible.
   For now, I would like to see if we can help Itsu and ourselves to obtain the needed sync and frequencies, that will show some (any) amount of OU.


    NickZ

    PS.  Alien Grey: Since you've mentioned many many times, that my device is a "fake".  This bud is for you...https://youtu.be/i4FBe4N8C3A
« Last Edit: 2021-07-05, 16:30:37 by NickZ »
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1412 on: 2021-07-05, 16:27:42 »
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   Itsu:
   I just saw this video (below) that I had made a few years ago. And the way that the bulbs would light up is different and reminds me of your set up.
I was taking the output from the big wima cap on the 3t coil circuit, instead of from the grenade output coil. Like Geofusion had shown.
   The Kacher is the same that I have now, but the input to it was taken from the 28t coil circuit, filtered, rectified, and fed back to the kacher.
   Just watch what happens when I turn the different circuits on. So, remember that in that case the output to the bulbs, was taken from the 3t coil, at the wima cap. And the 28t secondary yoke coil/grenade output coil fed the Kacher. I tried different ways of doing this. Sometimes just to see what would happen.
   That was my old Mazilli induction circuit driver. Much simpler way to go, and probably even stronger than the controlled circuits, But, still no OU.
   
     NickZ    https://youtu.be/NKJpPyMBxwI
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1413 on: 2021-07-05, 16:52:18 »
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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-07-04, 19:16:37
Assuming you power kacher from 25-33 turns push pull coil like this (pic. 1)
you get kacher powered with DC.

Now if you remove filtering capacitors (pic.2) you get kacher powered with push pull pulses
which will create modulated signal (push pull frequency filed with kacher frequency).

Just in case you decide try some upgrade.

Vasik



   Vasik:  Seams like that is exactly what I had done some years ago. After I improved the Kacher's input circuit with the new rectifier system, I then obtained a much higher output from the 28t coil circuit, than was previously shown in that video. So, much so that I fried some Kacher transistors. So, later the voltage into the kacher had to be reduced. In order to run without the filter caps, one would have to reduce the Kacher input voltage, somehow, or change the transistor to one of higher values.

   Guys: Sorry if these older videos and such are just a distraction. I really do want to focus on Itsu's results and tests, for now.

   NickZ
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1414 on: 2021-07-05, 17:07:51 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-07-04, 17:02:24
Itsu,

it is probably ok if you get enough voltage (200-300v) on grenade capacitor to feed into PSU.

Vasik

Vasik,

at the moment of have 180V dc or so on the bulb when tuned in resonance.

Been tuning with the caps, but its hard to get both Grenade and Inductor in resonance at the same frequency.


Itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1415 on: 2021-07-05, 17:10:36 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-07-04, 17:53:18

   Itsu:  What happened to the idea of the DC pulses from the HV circuit, instead? Aren't those all AC HV pulses?


   What I have noticed is that the inductor has lower voltages, but higher amps compared to the grenade output coil circuit. As the grenade has many more turns and windings. So, for me, the grenade has higher voltage, but lower amps.
My unloaded voltage on the grenade can get close to 1000v. And my grenade tuning caps get very hot, and crack.
The induction circuit tuning caps, don't get hot, nor crack. But, I can't get the big bang off of that cap when shorted, like Ruslan shows.
We, (Geo and I), have also taken the output from the inductor coil circuit at the WIMA cap(s). Instead of at the grenade tuning caps. Although both circuits have decent output, but not good enough to self run, so far. As the feed back PS is a big load. As you'll probably see, when you get to that point.

   NickZ

I don't know Nick, seems there is no mention of DC kacher pulses in the pdf's from Vasik, so not being used by Staker i guess.

Itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1416 on: 2021-07-05, 17:11:13 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-07-05, 16:27:42
   Itsu:
   I just saw this video (below) that I had made a few years ago. And the way that the bulbs would light up is different and reminds me of your set up.
I was taking the output from the big wima cap on the 3t coil circuit, instead of from the grenade output coil. Like Geofusion had shown.
   The Kacher is the same that I have now, but the input to it was taken from the 28t coil circuit, filtered, rectified, and fed back to the kacher.
   Just watch what happens when I turn the different circuits on. So, remember that in that case the output to the bulbs, was taken from the 3t coil, at the wima cap. And the 28t secondary yoke coil/grenade output coil fed the Kacher. I tried different ways of doing this. Sometimes just to see what would happen.
   That was my old Mazilli induction circuit driver. Much simpler way to go, and probably even stronger than the controlled circuits, But, still no OU.
   
     NickZ    https://youtu.be/NKJpPyMBxwI

Hi Nick,

yes i remember that video, it seems like the kacher is controlling (saturating) the yoke to turn both the 3-turn secondary coil to the bulbs and its own 28 turn secondary supply coil to go fully on.

Not sure why it reminds you of my setup is my setup does not do that.


Itsu
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1417 on: 2021-07-05, 17:15:42 »
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   Itsu:
   Seams like resonance does not ever happen exactly where we think that it should, on this type of device. There is probably a good reason for that.
   Were you able to improve the Kacher output signal?

   NickZ
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1418 on: 2021-07-05, 17:27:00 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-07-05, 17:10:36
I don't know Nick, seems there is no mention of DC kacher pulses in the pdf's from Vasik, so not being used by Staker i guess.

Itsu


     Ok, thanks.  I just wondered, as I don't have DC pulses coming out of my Kacher.  So. I thought that maybe I should.  But, it may not matter?
    Perhaps Vasik can add something to that idea of using the DC type Kacher pulses. Sounds like maybe both ways may work to some degree.
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1419 on: 2021-07-05, 17:37:42 »
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Quote from: Itsu on 2021-07-05, 17:07:51
Vasik,
at the moment of have 180V dc or so on the bulb when tuned in resonance.
Been tuning with the caps, but its hard to get both Grenade and Inductor in resonance at the same frequency.
Itsu

Itsu,

I think grenade need to be tuned close to resonance, but not exactly.
Instead we have to see phase of the current, so that peak will be located somewhere in push pull dead time, so that we can "strike" with TC at that place and won't damage push pull MOSFET.

Recently I have found more pictures about tuning by Alexeev, but I am hesitating to share those pictures to avoid confusion.
Because Stalker seems to be recommending tune inductor circuit to odd harmonic e.g. 3x or 5x of push pull.

Vasik
   
img  Vasik041
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1420 on: 2021-07-05, 17:45:36 »
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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-07-05, 17:27:00
     Ok, thanks.  I just wondered, as I don't have DC pulses coming out of my Kacher.  So. I thought that maybe I should.  But, it may not matter?
    Perhaps Vasik can add something to that idea of using the DC type Kacher pulses. Sounds like maybe both ways may work to some degree.

I think this was already mentioned here. Older versions of device used kacher powered with DC. But kacher still was modulated there through parasite capacitance and inductance. Than people realized that no reason to fight to get modulation right through parasite effects, it's much easier make modulation right away with small extra circuit :)
Most common variants: kacher power modulation and gating on kacher transistor base.

Vasik
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1421 on: 2021-07-05, 20:04:03 »

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Quote from: NickZ on 2021-07-05, 17:15:42
   Itsu:
   Seams like resonance does not ever happen exactly where we think that it should, on this type of device. There is probably a good reason for that.
   Were you able to improve the Kacher output signal?

   NickZ

Quote
Ok, thanks.  I just wondered, as I don't have DC pulses coming out of my Kacher.  So. I thought that maybe I should.  But, it may not matter?
    Perhaps Vasik can add something to that idea of using the DC type Kacher pulses. Sounds like maybe both ways may work to some degree.

Nick,

not working on the kacher right now, still trying to get both Inductor and Grenade in resonance or close.
I have some lower value Wima caps on order to fine tune.

Concerning the DC pulses coming out of your Kacher, i am not sure Vasik did understand you there as you are talking about the Kacher output to be DC pulsed (unidirectional) instead of AC pulsing now.

I don't think it matters

Itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1422 on: 2021-07-05, 20:07:53 »

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Quote from: Vasik041 on 2021-07-05, 17:37:42
Itsu,

I think grenade need to be tuned close to resonance, but not exactly.
Instead we have to see phase of the current, so that peak will be located somewhere in push pull dead time, so that we can "strike" with TC at that place and won't damage push pull MOSFET.

Recently I have found more pictures about tuning by Alexeev, but I am hesitating to share those pictures to avoid confusion.
Because Stalker seems to be recommending tune inductor circuit to odd harmonic e.g. 3x or 5x of push pull.

Vasik


Vasik,

Thanks,  will keep the 3rd and 5th harmonics in mind when tuning on the base frequency somehow is not possible / working.

Itsu
   
img  Itsu
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1423 on: 2021-07-05, 20:56:32 »

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Quote
I followed this procedure,
For one frequency tuning I use procedure like this:
1. Disconnect gradient coil
2. Tune inductor circuit to resonate on desired frequency
3. Disconnect inductor circuit
4. Re-connect gradient coil and tune gradient coil circuit to resonate on desired frequency
5. Re-connect inductor circuit, frequency will "jump up"
6. Increase both inductor and gradient coil capacitors 50% each (or same proportion) until you get desired frequency back

Result:

disconnect Grenade L5,  tune inductor L4 for 24KHz (600nF)
disconnect inductor L4, tune grenade L5 for 24KHz (233nF)
reconnect both grenade L5 and inductor L4, need to retune for resonance which seems around 21Khz now, so resonance dropped.

So need to remove some capacitance to get back to 24KHz.

Why is this different then your procedure you think?



Below screenshot is Grenade voltage (across cap) in yellow and current in green (97° phase shift at zero crossing).

I have a 25W bulb as load running at 200V dc.

Still in resonance at 21KHz.



Itsu
   
img  NickZ
Re: Dally, Shark & Ruslan workbench « Reply #1424 on: 2021-07-06, 01:17:34 »
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   Itsu:
   Your signals look pretty clean now. We'll see what happens when you turn on the Kacher.
   
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