The Non-Sense Pulse Motor.

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2024-05-03, 00:39:05
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Author Topic: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. (Read 148841 times)

TinMan	The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « on: 2018-12-18, 12:24:22 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4609	Build if you wish--your call. Principle of operation will become apparent as we go along--some will work it out sooner. Part A--the drive coil configuration. 1x PM of rod type. 2 inches long 10-12mm diameter. NEO or ceramic type ok. 1x PVC or plastic tube to fit over PM snug,and of same length. 1x Steel tube-black pipe or iron pipe,2-3mm thick,with non magnetic keepers at each end. To be same length as magnet and PVC/plastic tube,and to fit snug over PVC/plastic tube. A coil of 200 turns is to be wound over the steel pipe,with wire size of between .6mm to .7mm That is the drive coil. P.S I would suggest using the weaker ceramic magnets,unless you are confident in being able to make a very sturdy rig,as the two attracting magnetic poles will be passing within 1mm of each other,and using neo's,this will create a very strong pull on the rotor shaft at the TDC position of each rotor+stator magnet alignment. A heavy flywheel/rotor is recommended . ------------------------ The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. DRIVE COIL CONFIG 1.JPG (51.48 kB, 536x556 - viewed 2031 times.) « Last Edit: 2018-12-18, 13:23:44 by TinMan » --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #1 on: 2018-12-18, 13:13:15 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4609	Part 2-the rotor electric/magnetic torque amplifiers. 4 to 6 of these will need to be built--6 is better for smoother operation. 4-6x 2 inch x 10-12mm rod magnets. Each magnet has a plastic/plexiglass keeper at one end(so as in attraction mode to that of the drive coil),and a second keeper at the center of the magnets length. A coil of 400 turns of wire size .4mm - .5mm is to be wound around the magnet,between the keepers. Heat srink or electrical tape may be wound around the magnet if you are concerned about shorting when using neo's--ceramic magnets of course are non conductive. That is it for the rotor torque amplifiers. You will notice that in my diagrams,the stator coil has the south pole facing !what will be! the rotor magnets north pole. ------------------------ The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. Rotor magnets coils arrangement.JPG (24.3 kB, 552x418 - viewed 1848 times.) --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #2 on: 2018-12-18, 13:33:50 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4609	Part3-the rotor assembly The rotor should be between 6 and 10 inches in diameter,and 20-25mm thick. To be made of a non magnetic material--E.G-plexiglass. The larger the diameter,the heavier the rotor,the less vibration. I recommend one of size 10 inches-250mm in diameter. You are now to drill 4 or 6 holes in symmetry ,of diameter of your rotor magnets-->10 or 12mm,around the circumference and middle of thickness of your rotor. You then glue your electromagnetic torque amplifiers (half without coil) into your rotor with a strong glue. ------------------------ The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. Rotor with torque amplifiers fixed into.JPG (25.37 kB, 584x498 - viewed 1774 times.) --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #3 on: 2018-12-18, 14:05:38 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4609	Please see diagram below,and think about what you are looking at. Next post is of rotor electrical component setup. ------------------------ The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. magneticFieldLines rotor stator magnet position.JPG (56.83 kB, 720x605 - viewed 1689 times.) --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

ion	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #4 on: 2018-12-18, 14:26:14 »
Group: Elite Hero Member Posts: 3537 It's turtles all the way down	Nice step by step instructions. Should be interesting. --------------------------- "Secrecy, secret societies and secret groups have always been repugnant to a free and open society"......John F Kennedy

partzman	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #5 on: 2018-12-18, 18:45:20 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1671	Starting to round up the needed pm's etc. Will try to use my Prusa 3D printer for the rotor and stator brackets, etc. Pm

Grumage	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #6 on: 2018-12-18, 19:01:21 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2740	Hi Brad. Could you provide a link to the magnets please. 12mm diameter by 50mm long don't seem to be available via eBay UK. Cheers Graham. --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

ronee	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #7 on: 2018-12-18, 19:56:26 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 841	Quote from: Grumage on 2018-12-18, 19:01:21 Hi Brad. Could you provide a link to the magnets please. 12mm diameter by 50mm long don't seem to be available via eBay UK. Cheers Graham. In Canada and the US, a 1/2 x2 inch magnet is only $4,18 US at... http://www.magnet4less.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_11&products_id=1045 Ron

gyula	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #8 on: 2018-12-18, 20:15:32 »
Group: Tech Wizard Hero Member Posts: 1121	Hi Graham, If Brad agrees with 8mm dia x 30mm magnet sizes, then this may be a good overall offer (considering shipping): https://www.first4magnets.com/cylindrical-rod-c39/8mm-dia-x-30mm-thick-n42-neodymium-magnet-2-7kg-pull-p3013#ps_1-1022 In this slightly smaller size respect, perhaps other seller options may be found in the UK. Gyula

TinMan	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #9 on: 2018-12-19, 04:44:04 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4609	Quote from: partzman on 2018-12-18, 18:45:20 Starting to round up the needed pm's etc. Will try to use my Prusa 3D printer for the rotor and stator brackets, etc. Pm Hi Graham 12x50s are avaliable on ebay au,so not sure why not in uk? Anyway,i get most of my magnets from Frenergy Magnets. There is also nothing stopping you using shorter magnets glued together-say like 2 of 12mm x 25mm to make your 12x50 magnet,or even a heap of 12mm button magnets glued together,as the resulting field will be that of one long magnet. The size is really up to you. I just scaled down another device to a 1/3rd scale. As long as you can build to the design-fit coils on 1/2 of the rotor magnets,then it should work. Dig up what you have lying around,and lets look to see if they will work. I am using 12mm × 10mm ceramic magnets glued together. For those using neo's,consider this__ 2 of 12x50 n52s will have an attraction force of around 25kg's This is the sideways force that will be placed on your rotor and shaft--hence my warning in the previous post about being able to build a very solid device,where there will be less than 1mm flex between the stator and rotor magnets. Do not use alnico magnets,as the poles are easily flipped. Cheap ceramic magnets will make for a good pulse motor Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #10 on: 2018-12-19, 11:01:47 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4609	Neo's of this size are quite expensive here in Oz Grum https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/2x-Strong-Rare-Earth-Cylinder-Magnets-12mm-x-50mm-N48-Super-Rod-Neodymium-Arts/230909636982?epid=630574474&hash=item35c3497176:g:CdwAAOSwX61ZCqZc:rk:1:pf:0 I am using these glued together.' https://magnet.com.au/ferrite-disc-magnet-12mm-x-6mm.html --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #11 on: 2018-12-19, 11:04:04 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4609	Below is the circuit for each of the torque amplifiers. The output from each circuit(voltage doubler) will run to two slip rings on the rotor--drawing yet to come. Brad ------------------------ The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. Amplifiers circuit.JPG (21.85 kB, 506x409 - viewed 1610 times.) --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Grumage	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #12 on: 2018-12-19, 18:56:22 »
Group: Renaissance Man Hero Member Posts: 2740	Hi Brad. It would seem those specific magnets are only available in Oz!! Cheers Graham. ------------------------ The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. image.png (226.39 kB, 1024x768 - viewed 662 times.) --------------------------- Nanny state ? Left at the gate !!

Slider2732	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #13 on: 2018-12-19, 19:31:12 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	On the magnets... In the USA, Dollar Tree do the 'dancing flowers', likely everywhere else has such things as novelty solar rockers. Nearly all have a ceramic in the base. « Last Edit: 2018-12-19, 21:27:58 by Slider2732 » --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

CITFTA	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #14 on: 2018-12-19, 19:44:41 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 766 Believing in something false doesn't make it true.	I have decided to follow Brad's advise to start with ceramic magnets. I found that Hobby Lobby has some .5" dia. by .2" length magnets. So stacking 10 of them will give you a 1/2 inch by 2 inch magnet. They come in a package of 15 for $2.98 USD. I got 5 packages for enough to do seven magnets with 5 left over. Brad, I have a way to measure how many feet of wire I am putting in a coil but I don't have a good way to measure the number of turns. Do you know how many feet are required or do you have a good way to measure the number of turns? Thanks for starting this project. Carroll --------------------------- Just because it is on YouTube does not make it real.

TinMan	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #15 on: 2018-12-19, 22:43:34 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4609	Quote from: CITFTA on 2018-12-19, 19:44:41 I have decided to follow Brad's advise to start with ceramic magnets. I found that Hobby Lobby has some .5" dia. by .2" length magnets. So stacking 10 of them will give you a 1/2 inch by 2 inch magnet. They come in a package of 15 for $2.98 USD. I got 5 packages for enough to do seven magnets with 5 left over. Brad, I have a way to measure how many feet of wire I am putting in a coil but I don't have a good way to measure the number of turns. Do you know how many feet are required or do you have a good way to measure the number of turns? Thanks for starting this project. Carroll Hi Carroll I simply count the number of turns as i wind. Calculating feet would be a task,as there are a few variables,like length of core,starting diameter to finnishing diameter,how neat you wind the wire on. Just easier to count turns. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #16 on: 2018-12-20, 10:00:03 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4609	A quote from Smudge on OU.com It is possible to get more energy out than that put in if the non-linearity changes between current rise and current fall. For instance if during current rise we have something like the second image, then during current fall it changes to a linear fall as in the first image, then we put in the small green area and get out the large green area. This requires some additional feature to change the flux v, mmf line. Stearn demonstrated something in Dublin that did just that, they used toroidal coils wound onto ring cores on their stator and had magnets brought close to the cores by the rotor. While the magnet was away from the core the flux and current build up was linear, but when the magnet got close it cross-saturated the core whence the coil flux dropped to near zero inducing voltage into a load resistor. That produces a clockwise hysteresis loop yielding an electrical energy gain. For this to be OU it must be shown that the differing forces on the magnet for approach and recede do not account for that energy gain. --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Smudge	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #17 on: 2018-12-20, 16:28:11 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1861	Here is the explanation for the energy gain when a toroidal inductor is charged with current, the flux is held constant by having the coil shorted, a magnet is brought close to cross saturate the core and the current in the coil increases, then the inductor is discharged into a load. I think this is what Steorn tried to demonstrate in Dublin some time ago. But there will be some assymmetry of the magnet pull-in and pull-out forces so it may not be OU. Smudge ------------------------ The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. OU from saturated toroid.jpg (152.44 kB, 714x418 - viewed 569 times.)

partzman	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #18 on: 2018-12-20, 16:45:26 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1671	Quote from: Smudge on 2018-12-20, 16:28:11 Here is the explanation for the energy gain when a toroidal inductor is charged with current, the flux is held constant by having the coil shorted, a magnet is brought close to cross saturate the core and the current in the coil increases, then the inductor is discharged into a load. I think this is what Steorn tried to demonstrate in Dublin some time ago. But there will be some assymmetry of the magnet pull-in and pull-out forces so it may not be OU. Smudge Same basic principle I was trying to accomplish with my IET or inductance energy transfer circuitry which was inspired by your papers Smudge. A coil/core was charged to a point just below saturation, and then additional energy was dumped into same coil/core from another source in a short period of time driving the core into saturation. The coil was then discharged into a load but the results I seemed to achieve were all conservative but very high efficiency. I could see that using an approaching source of flux to a similar coil/core situation might possibly yield OU results. Pm

Smudge	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #19 on: 2018-12-20, 21:39:54 »
Group: Professor Hero Member Posts: 1861	In the Steorn system the magnets were on the outer edge of the rotor with the magnet axis pointed outward. The stator ring cores had their axes (passing through the hole) pointing inwards Thus the magnet flux at nearest approach was everywhere at right angles to the core flux. Smudge

TinMan	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #20 on: 2018-12-21, 14:29:44 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4609	Quote from: Grumage on 2018-12-19, 18:56:22 Hi Brad. It would seem those specific magnets are only available in Oz!! Cheers Graham. Only if neo's were not so expensive --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Magluvin	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #21 on: 2018-12-22, 00:38:51 »
Group: Mad Scientist Hero Member Posts: 546	Thanks for sharing Brad. A glue that i have been using for years is Goop. I prefer Marine Goop of the few different ones they have. E6000 is similar but a bit runny. Let set up for a day but after, one will see it is a very good product. Mags

TinMan	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #22 on: 2018-12-22, 10:37:51 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4609	Quote from: Magluvin on 2018-12-22, 00:38:51 Thanks for sharing Brad. A glue that i have been using for years is Goop. I prefer Marine Goop of the few different ones they have. E6000 is similar but a bit runny. Let set up for a day but after, one will see it is a very good product. Mags Thanks Mags for the info,it is good to have you here Yes,the glue used must be very strong,as there is a lot of weight spinning around on the rotor,and the centrifugal forces will be high. Perhaps some sort of non magnetic ring should be put around the outside circumference of the torque multipliers. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

TinMan	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #23 on: 2018-12-23, 11:49:57 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 4609	Well i only got a small portion of the test rig build today,as the temp hit the mid 40s in the workshop by 10am. Anyway, i will keep at it as time permits,and also the temp Also being xmas,most of my free time will be spent with family of course. Brad --------------------------- Never let your schooling get in the way of your education.

Slider2732	Re: The Non-Sense Pulse Motor. « Reply #24 on: 2018-12-23, 17:38:15 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 1399 ... .-.. .. -.. . .-.	+1 for the E6000. I use it to fix soles on shoes. The rest falls apart before the sole comes off again. --------------------------- ʎɐqǝ from pɹɐoqʎǝʞ a ʎnq ɹǝʌǝu

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