Displacement Current - Does it Exist?

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Microcontroller	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #150 on: 2010-12-07, 05:58:44 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Loner on 2010-12-07, 03:00:33 Here's a stupid question, as I am not sure this is "On-topic" or not. (I wish I knew...) The propagation of "Energy" on the "Extra" coil in a Tesla MT continues after the coils of wire. (Proven? Recorded data is available...) What form of energy is this, and could this be related to "Displacement Current". I am not talking 'RE" and Tesla made it clear as to the difference. I have not heard/Read of the "Possibility" of a Magnetic field collapsing into a single wire and still maintaining the same rate of dV/dt that was in the coil. IF that is true, what type of energy flow are we talking, as it certainly cannot be standard electron drift, especially as it's measured at pi/2*c speed? Lots of questions. No definitive answers that I can even test. What do you think? The magnetic coupling between the primary and secondary in the setup you mentioned is very low. Only about 20%. This from of energy does not involve electron flow. It is the most pure and true form of electricity and it can be concidered the flow of a charge over or through sub-atomic particles or the flow of sub-atomic particles itself. Apparently it moves so fast over the windings that the electrons cannot keep up with it and it becomes a massless flow of true electricity. I only answer to this topic because i have read alot about this setup. I see certain people fill entire pages talking about what we don't know. What good is it to talk about that? in stead we should be discussing the things we do know.

aetherevarising	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #151 on: 2010-12-07, 06:00:28 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: MileHigh on 2010-12-07, 05:39:58 Rosemary: I am quite certain that I am not confused about most things, and now you know how a bar magnet works. You are citing yourself to back up your own arguments. That's not going to work for me. Anyway, the discussion between the two of us about this topic is over. MileHigh Dear MileHigh. Is there some reason I may not cite my own arguments? I'll gladly do a piece by piece analysis of that quote you cited if you prefer it. It's a really choice example of my general complaint. I'm just not sure that here's the right place. This is about displacement currents. Not dipoles. Or for that matter 'atomic dipoles'. MileHigh - what I will concede is this. You are really well versed in mainstream thinking - certainly amongst engineers. I see echoes of these concepts everywhere on these forums. And I would never presume to discount all that knowledge that you have. And more to the point. You're also able to articulate it. You have a real facility with concept - that you can get your ideas across really well. It blows me away. And there are subtleties and general excellences which you give with a flourish. I just wish to God you'd get up to speed on dark energy. You'd be a highly competent ambassador. And this new science really needs all the help it can get. It's just that you're that closed minded. If it were a trivial matter I'd understand it. But it's really important MileHigh. For our children and their children - and so on. Our poor planet is getting really hot under the collar. We need to cool it down. Urgently. Rosemary

Loner	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #152 on: 2010-12-07, 06:50:54 »
Group: Guest	OK, I just deleted a couple "Pages" of comments, as Microcontroller gave an interesting point. If we are here to talk about what we know, then what is the use? This disheartened me. All my comments to MH, Rose, Grumpy, Poynt99 and AC must be of no use as this is discussing things that we do not know. I have deleted them and forgotten them. (Except that "Pure Electricity" has no electrons. I guess we even need a new name, but as I don't know...) To Think, I thought that learning new things was the purpose here. I'll move on, but Grumpy, Electric field is good enough def for me. Obviously, I will wait till I "Know" before saying more. It is certainly not a displacement current. I was sure Tesla had acknowledged them, but not used them. I will find the reference and then comment further. For him, Frequency was not Hertz, so translation is required for most of his work. Time for me to break from research and go back to playing.....

poynt99	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #153 on: 2010-12-07, 13:19:09 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3213 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: Loner on 2010-12-07, 06:50:54 OK, I just deleted a couple "Pages" of comments, as Microcontroller gave an interesting point. If we are here to talk about what we know, then what is the use? This disheartened me. All my comments to MH, Rose, Grumpy, Poynt99 and AC must be of no use as this is discussing things that we do not know. I have deleted them and forgotten them. (Except that "Pure Electricity" has no electrons. I guess we even need a new name, but as I don't know...) To Think, I thought that learning new things was the purpose here. I'll move on, but Grumpy, Electric field is good enough def for me. Obviously, I will wait till I "Know" before saying more. It is certainly not a displacement current. I was sure Tesla had acknowledged them, but not used them. I will find the reference and then comment further. For him, Frequency was not Hertz, so translation is required for most of his work. Time for me to break from research and go back to playing..... Don't let those comments dishearten you Loner. I absolutely agree with you in that one way we further our understandings is by discussing the unknowns. Besides, many of the topics discussed here are no doubt known, just not in these circles. I am quite certain for instance, that there is no mystery how a capacitor or electrostatic induction works. uC, if all we talk about in life is what we know, how can we go further? In order to progress, we have to push the envelope of knowledge. .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

Microcontroller	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #154 on: 2010-12-07, 15:20:17 »
Group: Guest	Loner don't take this too personal. It was not directly directed to you.

Grumpy	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #155 on: 2010-12-07, 15:31:51 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Quote from: Microcontroller on 2010-12-07, 05:58:44 The magnetic coupling between the primary and secondary in the setup you mentioned is very low. Only about 20%. This from of energy does not involve electron flow. It is the most pure and true form of electricity and it can be concidered the flow of a charge over or through sub-atomic particles or the flow of sub-atomic particles itself. Apparently it moves so fast over the windings that the electrons cannot keep up with it and it becomes a massless flow of true electricity. I only answer to this topic because i have read alot about this setup. I see certain people fill entire pages talking about what we don't know. What good is it to talk about that? in stead we should be discussing the things we do know. There are more unknowns than knowns. I think it was you who said: "You don't know what you don't know." Over the course of your life, how many times have you asked these same questions? Are you confident that you now have satisfactory answers? You do bring up a very good point though. There is little discussion of what we think we know. What about the momentum of this massless flow of electricity? I don't see any mention of that. What about the gyroscopic effect of the TPU? We know good and damn well that "something" is rotating. "Inertia" is a property of motion, not mass, and if there is nothing mechanical rotating then ther emust be something else rotating. What else do we know, that we don't tlak about? Well, we know that in a rotating system, two orthogonal forces are required to induce electron precession which is required for a conduction current. One of these forces can be gravity or a magnetic field. We know good and well that early TPU's stopped working when flipped over and had a low output. This is indicative that is used the gravitational field of the earth, and that the polarity of the output flipped when the device was flipped, resulting in the wrong polarity to the controls, and no output. We know that the rotating field is CCW in the Northern Hemisphere and CW in the Southern - just like a hurricane. We know that later models did not have this problem and probably used a static magnetic field inherent to the device that flipped when it flipped ensuring the output polarity never changed. We know there is a radial electric field rotating in the TPU because it is the only explanation that could be valid. The Gravity Resonance Coil had a similar field, but it was modulated rather than rotating (the goal was gravitational effect not electricty). So, cross the forces of the rotating electric field with the static force field and the electrons precess, if the circuit is closed, conduction ensues, lights lite up, beer get's cold, problem solved... So, if we know so much, why don;t we have a working device? Apparently, some cannot produce the required rotating electric field, and the rest just don't believe it.

Grumpy	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #156 on: 2010-12-07, 17:07:02 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-12-07, 04:56:04 Eric Dollard: see attached If you read the whole book: Condensed Intro to Tesla Transformers, Eric is talking about an electric wave, not a polarization of a dielectric as most consider "displacement current" to be. I think the whole polarization explanation was applied later and stuck because it sounds good. Hooper's "motional electric field" happens to have the same properties... When a moving electric field goes through a dielectric, it is slowed down, and the dielectric is polarized. I don't see gain there, but rather a loss. Dollard said that a vacuum would provide the fastest field velocity. Regarding Hooper's "Motional Electric Field", one interesting property is that "it can drive a current without a potential drop": see attached ------------------------ Displacement Current - Does it Exist? Hooper_Motional_E-Field_Properties.gif (17.46 kB, 700x903 - viewed 667 times.)

Grumpy	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #157 on: 2010-12-07, 19:32:40 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Rotating electric field causes electron spin-precession, and "precession" is the requirement for "induction" per W. Johnson, so if you can rotating an electric field you should see some output even without the other orthogonal force field. This should make initial tests easier. A moving electric field should also have an effect on a regualr circuit...

aetherevarising	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #158 on: 2010-12-07, 19:45:47 »
Group: Guest	Loner - there is absolutely no reason to be dishearted by what anyone writes. It's just opinions. And thankfully the most of us are trying to find answers. Don't ever assume that someone's opinion is justification for you to change your post. I've often been 'leaned on' to change my post and I think the real reason is because I've probably made a point that 'hits home'. Unless you're being offensive I actually don't think ANYONE can expect you to alter your posts. And frankly - it would be a shame. It's always a pleasure to go back and re-read them. They need to stay as they were. Kindest regards, Rosemary

aetherevarising	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #159 on: 2010-12-07, 19:51:26 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-12-07, 19:32:40 Rotating electric field causes electron spin-precession, and "precession" is the requirement for "induction" per W. Johnson, so if you can rotating an electric field you should see some output even without the other orthogonal force field. This should make initial tests easier. A moving electric field should also have an effect on a regualr circuit... I know that Grumpy doesn't answer my posts. So I'll address this to Poynty. Presumably you understand it. What is a 'rotating' electric field? Is that rotation the 'circular path' through a circuit? Or is it something else? And if so - then WHAT? To the best of my understanding charge moves through a circuit without any kind of spin that is 'known'. If it's required for whatever reason - then why is it required? Rosemary Actually it's just occurred to me. He's probably talking about a motor. Is that right? « Last Edit: 2010-12-07, 20:39:21 by aetherevarising »

poynt99	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #160 on: 2010-12-07, 22:22:40 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3213 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Rose, I may be wrong, but my impression of what Grumpy means is somewhat in a literal sense. Spherics talks about placing 6 very high inductance air-core coils in a hexagonal pattern (approximating a circle) and pulsing each one in succession with a very brief but high dV/dt pulse. This emulates a rotating electric field. The idea behind using high-inductance coils allows for tipping the balance between voltage (i.e. an electric field) and current, in favor of the voltage. Current in the coil takes time to build, but the voltage is instantaneous. .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

Grumpy	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #161 on: 2010-12-07, 23:10:08 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Quote from: poynt99 on 2010-12-07, 22:22:40 Rose, I may be wrong, but my impression of what Grumpy means is somewhat in a literal sense. Spherics talks about placing 6 very high inductance air-core coils in a hexagonal pattern (approximating a circle) and pulsing each one in succession with a very brief but high dV/dt pulse. This emulates a rotating electric field. The idea behind using high-inductance coils allows for tipping the balance between voltage (i.e. an electric field) and current, in favor of the voltage. Current in the coil takes time to build, but the voltage is instantaneous. .99 Yes, something like that. A very intense electric field, such a our HV impulse, will interact with the virtual electron-positron pairs of the "vacuum", and the electric field will also be communicated to other conductors via virtual photons. If you rule out actual electron-positron production (pair production) because we have been told ti takes more energy than we can easily create with our pulsed coil, you are still left wth the photons conveying the change in the electric field during the rise of the pulse. Perhaps these photons are infused with a huge amount of energy by their velocity and this is conveyed to the collector coil. So, your rotating electric field is continuously radiating supercharged protons to charge the collector of a TPU. Or you might say that the electric field is dragging the electrons since it is moving. How it is draggin them may not matter. There are several explanations, all equally valid and invalid, depending on the point of view.

Grumpy	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #162 on: 2010-12-08, 00:10:15 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-12-07, 23:10:08 Or you might say that the electric field is dragging the electrons since it is moving. How it is draggin them may not matter. I think this approach will work.

Loner	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #163 on: 2010-12-08, 01:19:25 »
Group: Guest	Grumpy, I agree. Sounds like a good approach. Simple "Thought" question, as uC's point was very good, and your "Follow-up" really hit home for me. The TPU concept might just be simpler than anything I have thought of before, and may NOT be as spherics suggested. What I am "Thinking" (Build in process...) is to take the idea of the "Extra" coil, without trying to "Know" it's operation but accepting the effects that seem to appear, and using the "Continuing" propagation part of the effect. The orientation of the coils would be like "Originally" seen on the TPU, and the HV pulse would be sent around. There is a little more to it but that almost covers the basic idea. 2 Phases should be enough, but I'm starting with four, inverse conduction current phase, but same for the Electric field portion. (Don't ask how yet. That's the part that need work and my idea isn't fully vetted out yet.) I also haven't figured a proper load for the HV, as the Cap effect must be accounted for to eliminate any possible reversal. (I guess there is a little more to it. Any suggestions welcome....) Tuned load, maybe, or resistive or maybe even gap between coil "Output" side and 2nd next input. I must test several methods as simple scoping of the waveforms won't cut it here. (A real conduction current load would be nice, but I'm not yet sure where / How to obtain the best coupling. This puts the device into a "Transformer / Translator" co-function, but this seems possible and actually reminds me of Tao's original thoughts, but with a different theory behind it.) Sorry, as this is not a TPU thread, but then again, you mentioned it first. Rose, I had to take uC's post personally, as it was both applying and not applying to me. I was fairly certain it referred to other things going on, but it really made me think that "What IF?" kind of thought where it hit me, "Why not take what we "Know" and use it, rather then look for answers in things we don't know." It's hard to describe, but my initial reaction is what you read, but in the back of my head, the "Light Bulb" lit, which forced me to post, while I hadn't even figured what lit the bulb. For me, this usually means I heard / read something important, but haven't identified it yet. Once I got over the illogical / emotional response that made no sense as uC obviously is here for the same reasons as most of the rest of us, the realization hit me, and then I read Grumpy's very calm and intelligent response, and I came to the conclusion that, while it may or may not have been the original reason for the comments uC made, He had a VERY Good point to make. It seems reasonable that all the knowledge that we need, for certain projects, is already out there. I am much better at assembling others ideas into new things than I am making my own new things. I feel it's about time I proved that, even if only to myself. uC, please believe I meant no offense, and if I sounded slightly "Off the wall" it was because I was unprepared to deal with the reality that slapped me in the face. Thank-You. Really! I've been gathering knowledge for too many years, in many fields, just so that I could properly apply it. I think it's time I attempted to convert some of the raw knowledge into wisdom. If I can now use this stored information while keeping an open mind..... Grumpy, do you have and opinion / feeling as to the orientation of the coils, relative to the centerline of the diameter? I am leaning away from Spherics 90 degree line, but only from "insight". I'll admit, I am biased as my "Spherics" replication went nowhere, but I never tried the concept in the "Original" format. I'm revamping a small build tonight, but was looking for any ideas and I know you've been at this quite a bit longer than I. Sorry again to insert TPU questions into this thread, but it's on my mind and I think the brain is starting to leak data......

Grumpy	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #164 on: 2010-12-08, 03:17:29 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Do no go off on a full-scale build before making a few basic experiments to see if you can produce the necessary moving electric field. Spherics outlined this pretty clearly. As I recall, every failed AVEC attempt never achieved the capacitor charging effect. You can see above that a moving electric field can induce a current without a drop in potential. Traveling waves from lightning strikes are probably the same thing, and a solar flare probably produces a moving electric field too. This also the source of what is called a displacement current.

Loner	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #165 on: 2010-12-08, 05:29:47 »
Group: Guest	Ahhh. What I mean by a "Build" is a small (6") basic set of coils, in a circle, with just a couple extra things, for testing. I already know that I can get a mag field to rotate this way, but I never tried with "No Current". All I got with the rotating field was a basic transformer, though with weird characteristics. As I could never nail them down well enough to understand, I shelved it, along with a few too many other things. Seeing that my shelves are too full to add to, I figure that I should try these things in different configs before I throw away a lot of "Garbage". (Need room in my work area... Actually, I need to clean as I am a slight "hoarder" of projects. I have a few things made in the early 70's that I still spin up, once in a while....) If I can get "ANY" seeming results, or even any conduction current that surpasses what I shove into the thing, THEN I'll go nuts with a detailed build. Of course, at that time I'll probably have a bit more interest generated, if I get actual data to post. (That hasn't ever happened yet, but I can always hope...) I'm sure you can imagine the crude setup, with taped wires on ceramic floor tiles for spark gaps, etc. I'm still deciding how basic to start, as my quick MT check fired up first time. (Still no visible signs on the "Extra", but it's easy to feel the difference with and without it. I won't mention that again.) By Cap Charging effect, do you mean the "Potential Vortex?" type of effect, or the "Standing HV" type, or something I am not aware of. My Spherics data is dated, with all the original names and such and so I have read it twice but never really put it out these for disection by the masses. I'll re-read to verify.

Grumpy	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #166 on: 2010-12-08, 15:10:57 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Quote from: Loner on 2010-12-08, 05:29:47 By Cap Charging effect, do you mean the "Potential Vortex?" type of effect, or the "Standing HV" type, or something I am not aware of. My Spherics data is dated, with all the original names and such and so I have read it twice but never really put it out these for disection by the masses. I'll re-read to verify. This one: Quote ...how do you see "it" on a scope? I understand that you pulse the inner and the outer has the DC for the steady field. Do in need to wrap a coil around the ccu to see "it"? Reply: If the steady field is from a battery you'll be able to see on the terminals of the battery. OR Charge a 100V cap to 50V. Cut two separate pieces of wire around 8 feet long that has good insulation. Connect one wire to one terminal and the other wire to the other terminal - no circuit!. Curl the wires up into two rough cylinders, diameter unimportant. Place near the CCU. Now pulse the coil whilst measuring the voltage on the cap, and scoping the cap. On the scope it looks like a very short burst of sustained oscillation. Voltage on cap will steadyly rise. Cut wire down to get best pulse definition.

poynt99	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #167 on: 2010-12-11, 04:45:24 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3213 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	ES induction vs. charging a capacitor by means of conventional DC source. Is this how Kapnadze et al is getting "extra" electrons? .99 [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ36EtABLAk[/youtube] --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

Grumpy	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #168 on: 2010-12-11, 05:19:51 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Quote from: poynt99 on 2010-12-11, 04:45:24 ES induction vs. charging a capacitor by means of conventional DC source. Is this how Kapnadze et al is getting "extra" electrons? .99 [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ36EtABLAk[/youtube] and here I was thinking that only a TPU could light that bulb in your head...LOL! Every flick of the switch starts at ES (electrostatic), but most overlook it as unimportant. See, you change the charge in your coil and it causes the charge of everything else to change automatically. It is quite eloquent. If the subsequent change in charge requires a current to flow, then so be it! Move your charged object around and the opposite charges follow it. There is something going on when you first close the switch that makes the electric field go super nova. It is like is not an electric field just yet, like the aether is still forming the field. Anyway, you should build something now.

poynt99	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #169 on: 2010-12-11, 14:58:11 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3213 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-12-11, 05:19:51 and here I was thinking that only a TPU could light that bulb in your head...LOL! In that case, it would appear you are the one imposing the limitations. Quote Anyway, you should build something now. I'll decide when and what I build, but thanks for the encouragement. .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

Grumpy	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #170 on: 2010-12-11, 15:21:23 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	How is the power supply coming along? Still in ICU? Hey, we could use some sort of electric field meter that can map a field with a little detail. Something better than a simple indication. I had a schematic for one a long time ago that lit a series of LEDs as the field got stronger, but something with a meter or something that connects to a DVM would be nice. Something small and cheap so you can build several of them. When you feel that field move, you know you are not in Kansas any more!

MileHigh	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #171 on: 2010-12-11, 15:36:06 »
Group: Guest	I have a 24-inch Toshiba CRT TV from about 2000 in the bedroom. That's when flat-panel TVs were starting to make inroads, and the CRT TV manufacturers took serious notice. Therefore they designed and manufactured CRT TVs with quality and performance like you had never ever seen before. At least that's what it feels like to me. The screen is perfectly flat and I have never adjusted any of the settings, they are all at mid-point and the picture is perfect. Anyway, when you stand next to it and turn it on manually, there is a PAFF and can you ever feel the electric field that comes off of the front of the screen! It feels like a hammer blow, a huge impulse of energy! It's so cool!!! The clock is ticking on NTSC television transmission in Canada though, I think there is less than a year left. I never watch TV on it through. I have an S-Video feed from a home theater PC connected up. With a 1 TB hard drive you can load it up with TONS of stuff. But I love the PAFF! MileHigh

Grumpy	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #172 on: 2010-12-11, 15:40:01 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Keep in mind that we are dealing with a transient electric field induction effect, so rate of change per unit time. A CCU coil creates a very strong electric field when you apply a transient pulse to it. This field is accelerating and propagating out from the coil. While in a state of change, this field will induce changes in charge which result in changes in current. (A transient like MH just mentioned.)

Loner	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #173 on: 2010-12-11, 16:21:43 »
Group: Guest	I'm really stuck on a few things that have been posted, so I'm thinking out loud to see where it leads me. Calling the initial "Charge" from the connection of a voltage source, before the beginning of conduction current, an "Electric Field" is the starting point. Accepting the fact that "Current" flows from both ends is point two. Accepting that the electric charge previously "Defined" (Only for this thought train, subject to re-evaluation at any time...) MUST have "Something" to do with the actual effect of conduction current, as in, this "Charge" or "Electric Field" is what "Pulls / Pushes" (I won't start of the "Wake" concept, here...) the physical "Electrons" (Method of operation not necessary, either...) so as to be the CAUSE of conduction current. First conclusion, the "Current" that is "Flowing" in the opposite direction from "Electron Drift direction" (Also accepted by most as standard conduction current, flows from minus to plus. For those not well versed in classical electrical theory...), must be somewhat involved with the same "Charge" or "Electric Field". This seemingly small conclusion provides many more questions than answers. (Is there anyone who disagrees with this simple, logical conclusion. I'd love to hear the reasons, please!) I'm staying vague with certain principles, as I wish to keep this un-biased. (Classical guys, too bad for now...) This conclusion leads to two possible explanations, neither of which seems exactly correct, but I have an opinion, and wish to see what others think. This may be slightly off-topic, but then again.... Possibility one, the "Charge" or "Electric Field" also travels in both directions, and is sourced from both sides. Possibility two, the charge causes an aether "Vacuum?", pulling the "Reverse Conduction current" in the opposite direction. (Actually, the aether would be pushing, but let's not pick nits right now...) Of course, possibility two would be the "Simpler" and the one that would be easiest to work with, as this leaves only one type of "Charge" or "Electric Field" that would need to be worked with. Possibility one agrees with Tesla's work, as direction of charge could be modified by which side of the gen the gap was. (I leave anyone more deeply interested in that little blurb to research that area. There is FAR too much data available for me to go into, here.) This little problem is causing me severe design problems, and I'm testing to overcome them. While the above may sound very "Far fetched", I am sticking with "Knowns" for a while to see how much I am missing, and so as to not "RE-invent" the wheel, as it were. Most of the above is accepted and known fact, though not all is common knowledge. The Standard and Reverse direction of current is well known. Electric Charge is at least accepted and documented, though not as well understood. Directionality of this field is slightly open, as I have yet to see a tested method to prove that polarity is not simply the function of approach or depart. The first "Opinion" part is whether the Charge is what moves the electrons in conventional current. IF that is so, then the second opinion comes in. IF the charge field also is the cause of the Reverse conduction current, then there would have to be those two possibilities above. IF NOT, then the possibility exists (Start laughing here, or say "S***"!) the the reverse conduction current is actually just the charge field itself, in a "reflective?" type of situation. The Hard part is, No Matter what I say or state, if the Charge Field is responsible for Electron flow (A given for me, sorry,,,), then this same charge field, going in reverse direction would also produce conduction current in the reverse direction. Lots more to say, but certain test is interupting me. Gotta Go.

Grumpy	Re: Displacement Current - Does it Exist? « Reply #174 on: 2010-12-11, 17:06:29 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3947 tExB=qr	Quote from: Loner on 2010-12-11, 16:21:43 I'm really stuck on a few things that have been posted, so I'm thinking out loud to see where it leads me. ... Yes to entire post. DC is pretty obvious if you move the electric field in one direction, say you rotate it around and around, constantly changing polarity in the dielectric, constantly telling electrons to move, like a pump. Any book on electrical transients in power systems will mention transients induced by the system and those induced outside of it. While not clear at this time, applying a force field perpendicular to the electric field, will increase the current by inducing more electrons to move - like it helps the E-field penetrate deeper into the conductor and influence more electrons by minimizing the magnetic field that works against you. So, how do you implement a moving electric field?

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