Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments?

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Author Topic: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? (Read 330392 times)

poynt99	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #275 on: 2011-01-20, 02:07:04 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3208 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: MileHigh on 2011-01-19, 11:18:22 Yes indeed TinselKoala made an awesome little clip there. It's quite striking how the spike appears in his voltage waveform when he moves his ground clip down the wire and further away from the resistor. It's very evident how this can mess up your measurements. Now, I am going to go slightly off-topic and pose a related question for the masses. The question is why does that voltage spike appear when he moves the ground clip? Please no cheating from some of the contributors to the forum that we suspect will know the answer. You are excluded from the pop quiz. Why does the spike appear? Note that if you understand why the spike appears you should be able to appreciate the point made in TK's clip that much more. MileHigh Quote from: MileHigh on 2011-01-20, 00:22:48 Well if you are going to be rude and say that you understand the math and the theory, then why not answer the pop quiz? MH, I took it as though your pop quiz was directed to those that might not be too experienced in electronics, or perhaps mainly the hobbyists. Just so you know, WW by no means falls under that category. He's one of our senior, highly-respected engineers, and although I get under the skin of him and ION and yourself once in a while, I have a great deal of respect for everyone here. In fact there are several very knowledgeable people here; quite a power-house actually. We are very fortunate indeed. .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

gridbias	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #276 on: 2011-01-20, 02:32:49 »
Group: Guest	Let me get this straight Some units, for no reason that is fully understood or agreed on, exhibit conditions which experienced people are at odds to explain. Lawrence has stated that duplication probably will not give the exact same results as just a wire length here or there will alter the results. It's the same for the measurement methods, again wire lengths etc. Surely there is no point in arguing a theory that is not fully understood. These things look a lot like Steve marks early unit. Surely its possible that some misunderstood kind of electromagnetic switching is occurring Surely giving up because the books dont say it can happen is against what this effort is about . Mass duplication of circuit (not replication) will help , even failures will help as long as people dont think they are making a free energy machine , but rather, contributing to research for all. Blocking oscillators are one of the most controversial linear circuits . add a torroid(ring) and its even worse. Clearly people are seeing non conventional efficiency increases at the very least. I think that it is possible that some kind of magnetic spin is happening around some units that may be tuning in to something else from outside. It's bothersome to see people going against each other over semantics , nobody is right here because new terms will have to be developed thru experimentation and collaboration. I thank Lawrence for his approach and frankness. A dick waving competition on theory will prove even more futile for for the wavers if this actually can be made to work repeatably somehow... see the problem ? This effort is still one of the best I have seen to date .Thanks to every body who contributes . I hope to contribute something worthwhile to this cause myself at some point.

ltseung888	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #277 on: 2011-01-20, 02:34:00 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: poynt99 on 2011-01-19, 19:21:43 Lawrence, Why not let people test it using their various means, as long as the method is appropriate and executed properly? (i.e. thermal etc.) For the first round public tests, I would like the verifiers to use the oscilloscope method which I and the teams in Hong Kong and China did for dozens if not hundreds of times. I know the Ins and Outs. I can help over the Internet or over the phone. After the positive results in the first round, the verifiers can do whatever they want. I do not know enough about the thermal methods or the simulation methods and there will be the unnecessary lengthy discussions. I did not realize that the PhysicProf had to travel 70 miles to access the good oscilloscopes. Driving that distance in the snow and icy roads will be a big effort. I sincerely thank him for what he has done and what he will be doing. Quote If you decide to send me a unit to test, I will test it according to good practices, as I have outlined here. I have no control over how the testing is performed anywhere else and by anyone else, and to be honest with you, I trust almost no one but myself. Unless a great deal of detail is provided by those performing the tests, it would be difficult to compare and verify. The numbers, properly obtained however, will speak for themselves. I can assure you, that if I feel my test results are not solid and reliable, I will state this. However, with the equipment I have now at my disposal (1GHz 4-channel Tektronix scope, plus various current probes, and a differential probe), I should be able to easily surpass the quality of oscilloscope testing done by anyone thus far. I know the methods, the equipment, the pitfalls, and the subtleties involved. In addition as I mentioned earlier, I may have access to two new sets of high end Tektronix equipment, in a short while's time. If this equipment arrives, it would be used to verify my previous test results obtained with my own high end equipment. I have seen enough posts from you to build up the confidence that you will be able to do an unbiased and truly scientific job. All the prototypes I bought to USA have been allocated to other verifiers in the last few days. Thanks to the publicity in this forum. These potential verifiers include UCI, Construction University in Beijing, a potential investor, a semi-Government organization and a subsidiary of Tektronics! You will have a prototype from Hong Kong. As I mentioned before, the details of that prototype will be provided in this thread first before shipment. The true COP will be at least 100 and the actual mean Output Power will exceed 20 watts as defined with your help. Obviously, you and other forum members may question or comment on any of their testing methods or results before the prototype is shipped. I shall ask the Hong Kong experimenter(s) to do this favor for me. It may take a little time. They are NOT my employees and they have no obligation to do it for me. I hope that they will support me to get open and conclusive results. Amen.

poynt99	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #278 on: 2011-01-20, 02:45:59 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3208 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Hold your horses Lindsay, you're getting way ahead of things here. As far as I am concerned, no one is debating the theory of operation, nor to explain any weird "condition". So far all can be explained with conventional theory. And no one has yet proven that "people are seeing non conventional efficiency increases". Where did all this come from? Respectfully, relax and wait for the properly-obtained numbers to roll in, and try not to read too much into things here. This is not SM's device by any stretch! .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

poynt99	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #279 on: 2011-01-20, 02:59:54 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3208 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Lawrence, You may do whatever you wish in terms of coordinating your testing etc. All I ask is that you be respectful of the OUR guidelines, and that you allow someone appointed by OUR to examine the test results before you post any claims of OU on this forum. Also, VERY IMPORTANT!: When submitting test results, the more detail the better, in terms of how the testing was conducted etc. You could not ever supply too much information! I can not stress this enough. However, we will tackle that issue if/when it arises .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

aetherevarising	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #280 on: 2011-01-20, 03:32:21 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: humbugger on 2011-01-19, 13:10:45 [edit] Please note: After receiving two PMs suggesting I please not "quit" and a comment from Rose regarding this post, I guess my attempt at humor was taken seriously. This post and the last one of mine and MH's one in between there were intended as wry sarcastic humor, which I will try to refrain from in other people's threads in the future simply because it might be taken seriously or might be found as snide or mean-spirited by some people here. I was poking fun at folks who seem unable to accept any criticism when they are wrong. Who would have THOUGHT? I'm rather pleased that Humbugger explained himself so fully. You see the fact is that there are still those of us who contribute to this thread who are also still mere mortals. As mere mortals we do NOT have your level of elevated consciousness. We do not have the wherewithall required to detect 'sarcastic humour'. Nor do we have the wherewithall to determine our tests outside of your assessments. You may not realise it Humbugger - but we are all riveted to attention when we read your posts - especially if and when you explain that we're 'wrong'. Then your comments are read with the kind of attention that one would - under normal circumstances - only allow to God Himself. But I, personally, will look out for a 'sarcastic' edge to your future posts. The trouble is that I'm not sure I'll get it right. What if you DON'T endorse our findings? What then? Will you at lest give us a clue ... in the unfortunate and unlikely event that your report is actually based on sarcasm and is actually NOT intended to be taken seriously? You see the problem? Perhaps you could use one of Poynty's emoticons to explain your position. That may help. Or. Better still. Sign an affidavit to the effect that you won't use sarcasm. And then publish it here. That way I can relax. Else I'll be in a perpetual tail-spin - obsessing over the very real concern as to your true meaning - you true communication. I see myself in caught in the trap - forever trying to resolve this difficult problem. Is Humbugger's post sarcastic? Is Humbugger's post NOT sarcastic? You see the problem? It's insuperable. Untenable. Just would not know what to do. Golly. Rosemary

poynt99	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #281 on: 2011-01-20, 03:42:58 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3208 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Rose, Relative to me, you're from a country far far away...but more often than not, you're out of this world .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

aetherevarising	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #282 on: 2011-01-20, 03:46:53 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: poynt99 on 2011-01-20, 03:42:58 Rose, Relative to me, you're from a country far far away...but more often than not, you're out of this world .99 Indeed. I think you're pointing to Lala Land. LOL. I've taken out permanent residence and am looking for full citizenship. It's a passport to the only place where I can identify with the locals.

aetherevarising	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #283 on: 2011-01-20, 04:04:32 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011-01-19, 22:01:13 Rose, I don't care much for many of the aspects of TK's work. However, I can assure you, even if he didn't make the connections he claimed, that little loop of short wire would cause that particular change in the scope display. There should be no doubts the video contents were completely correct. A bit of stray inductance or capacitance does make a great deal of difference in scope displays whenever the frequency or rise/fall time goes beyond the design of the circuit. Of course, this is only my opinion. This opinion is based upon decades of experience with such circuits and test equipment. I don't need the theory or math to convince me. Respectfully, John (WW) John - I would have thought that his argument would ONLY have been proved if he also IN FACT attached the connection to the wire he claimed he attached it to. But I'm happy to be in a minority of one in this assessment. My personal opinion is that he's using Mylow's techniques of 'misdirection' to prove an unsubstantiated claim. But I get it that we should not question this. It's not the evidence that matters. It's the implied evidence. And only us reckless free energy enthusiasts may NOT imply anything. It's the contenders who must be allowed to alter the fact and vary the test parameter as required. That's only fair. Rosemary

poynt99	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #284 on: 2011-01-20, 04:10:19 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3208 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: aetherevarising on 2011-01-20, 04:04:32 John - I would have thought that his argument would ONLY have been proved if he also IN FACT attached the connection to the wire he claimed he attached it to. Rosemary Rose, what are you trying to say here? .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

humbugger	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #285 on: 2011-01-20, 04:11:07 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: aetherevarising on 2011-01-20, 03:32:21 Who would have THOUGHT? I'm rather pleased that Humbugger explained himself so fully. You see the fact is that there are still those of us who contribute to this thread who are also still mere mortals. As mere mortals we do NOT have your level of elevated consciousness. We do not have the wherewithall required to detect 'sarcastic humour'. Nor do we have the wherewithall to determine our tests outside of your assessments. You may not realise it Humbugger - but we are all riveted to attention when we read your posts - especially if and when you explain that we're 'wrong'. Then your comments are read with the kind of attention that one would - under normal circumstances - only allow to God Himself. But I, personally, will look out for a 'sarcastic' edge to your future posts. The trouble is that I'm not sure I'll get it right. What if you DON'T endorse our findings? What then? Will you at lest give us a clue ... in the unfortunate and unlikely event that your report is actually based on sarcasm and is actually NOT intended to be taken seriously? You see the problem? Perhaps you could use one of Poynty's emoticons to explain your position. That may help. Or. Better still. Sign an affidavit to the effect that you won't use sarcasm. And then publish it here. That way I can relax. Else I'll be in a perpetual tail-spin - obsessing over the very real concern as to your true meaning - you true communication. I see myself in caught in the trap - forever trying to resolve this difficult problem. Is Humbugger's post sarcastic? Is Humbugger's post NOT sarcastic? You see the problem? It's insuperable. Untenable. Just would not know what to do. Golly. Rosemary At least we can all tell when you are being snide, condescending and sarcastic! : Anyone who has followed your posts on the various forums knows that you despise TK and have had many bitter and heated battles with him including horrible accusations of spreading viruses and knocking out your computer, etc. To look at his video and conclude that he is foisting off trickery on us is just, well...outright paranoid and delusional. He was just demonstrating something that most everyone who has ever used a high-speed scope has seen a million times!

aetherevarising	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #286 on: 2011-01-20, 04:13:03 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: poynt99 on 2011-01-20, 04:10:19 Rose, what are you trying to say here? .99 Poynty - check the video. The probe connection is BEHIND a junction. It is NOT on the blue wire. Or not that I can see. And I KEEP LOOKING. Rosie

poynt99	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #287 on: 2011-01-20, 04:26:17 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3208 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: aetherevarising on 2011-01-20, 04:13:03 Poynty - check the video. The probe connection is BEHIND a junction. It is NOT on the blue wire. Or not that I can see. And I KEEP LOOKING. Rosie Good grief! The CSR is connected between the MOSFET Source (or transistor emitter) and the circuit GND (at least that's how I see it). So, the probe connection is at the transistor emitter and remains there for the entire video. The probe reference lead (gnd lead) is placed in two positions, one very near the resistor body, and two, right at the circuit ground junction. In the latter case, the gnd lead does not have to be attached to the blue wire, because the blue wire is connected to that junction. There is probably only 0.5cm difference between the end of the blue wire and where TK placed the gnd lead on the junction. There was no fakery or attempt at duping the audience....what the heck for? What exactly are you suspicious of or think he did anyway? .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

humbugger	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #288 on: 2011-01-20, 04:35:11 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: aetherevarising on 2011-01-20, 04:13:03 Poynty - check the video. The probe connection is BEHIND a junction. It is NOT on the blue wire. Or not that I can see. And I KEEP LOOKING. Rosie I have carefully viewed the video. It is true, Rosemary, that he seems to connect his clip to the nice bare transistor lead that sticks out of the solder blob where the blue wire is attached. It looks like the blue wire has insulation on it right up to the solder joint. Are you so insanely foolish as to assert that the result would be visibly different had he clipped to the solder blob or had stripped back 1/8 inch of insulation on the blue wire and hooked up there? True, technically he did say he had hooked to the other end of the blue wire. Are you honestly calling him and the spirit of the video a fraud because of that? It's just a bit much, Rosemary. JUST A BIT MUCH.

poynt99	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #289 on: 2011-01-20, 04:43:22 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3208 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	If I know TK, he will probably redo the demonstration. All because of some silly crass nonsense! .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

aetherevarising	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #290 on: 2011-01-20, 04:48:05 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: humbugger on 2011-01-20, 04:35:11 I have carefully viewed the video. It is true, Rosemary, that he seems to connect his clip to the nice bare transistor lead that sticks out of the solder blob where the blue wire is attached. It looks like the blue wire has insulation on it right up to the solder joint. Are you so insanely foolish as to assert that the result would be visibly different had he clipped to the solder blob or had stripped back 1/8 inch of insulation on the blue wire and hooked up there? True, technically he did say he had hooked to the other end of the blue wire. Are you honestly calling him and the spirit of the video a fraud because of that? It's just a bit much, Rosemary. JUST A BIT MUCH. Guys, bear in mind I'm not only an amateur but I'm as blind as a bat. What little learning I have inclines me to understand that the ground reference is a critical reference. Long have I heard how important it is to keep one's reference accurate. And what can happen on one side of a junction is entirely different to what happens on the other side. And who am I to point to 'motive'? As far as I'm concerned you can all conclude what you will. Don't mind me. I'll just pretend to agree that my vision is faulty and my learning along with it. And the voltages values can be taken behind any junctions as required. Humbugger - far from not liking TK - I'm half way in love. Always been partial to the moustache. And I enjoy watching his videos - even if I don't agree with his conclusions. Rosemary

humbugger	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #291 on: 2011-01-20, 04:54:39 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: poynt99 on 2011-01-20, 04:43:22 If I know TK, he will probably redo the demonstration. All because of some silly crass nonsense! .99 NOT NECESSARY. I HAVE SUBMITTED THE VIDEO TO THE CIA FORENSIC LABS AND THE JET PROPULSION LABORATORIES. BOTH ORGANIZATIONS CAREFULLY ANALYZED THE VIDEO AFTER BLOWING UP THE AREA IN QUESTION AND USING SOPHISTICATED INTERPOLATION AND PIXEL ANALYSIS, BOTH LABS DETERMINED THAT A TINY BIT OF THE STRIPPED END OF THE BLUE WIRE ACTUALLY STICKS OUT THE OTHER SIDE OF THE SOLDER BLOB AND LAYS NEXT TO THE TRANSISTOR LEAD! HE WAS INDEED CONNECTED TO THE END OF THE BLUE WIRE! NOW WE CAN ALL REST EASY, KNOWING WE HAVE NOT BEEN TRICKED.

humbugger	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #292 on: 2011-01-20, 05:09:42 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: aetherevarising on 2011-01-20, 04:48:05 Humbugger - far from not liking TK - I'm half way in love. Always been partial to the moustache. And I enjoy watching his videos - even if I don't agree with his conclusions. Rosemary Please accept my apology and I retract my statement about you despising TK. I got my furry animals mixed up. Tinsel Koala and Fuzzy Tom Cat. It's the latter one you despise and make horrible public criminal accusations against, right? When it comes to TK, you just attack his educational videos as sleight of hand trickery. I got it now. Sorry.

aetherevarising	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #293 on: 2011-01-20, 05:16:55 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: humbugger on 2011-01-20, 05:09:42 Please accept my apology and I retract my statement about you despising TK. I got my furry animals mixed up. Tinsel Koala and Fuzzy Tom Cat. It's the latter one you despise and make horrible public criminal accusations against, right? When it comes to TK, you just attack his educational videos as sleight of hand trickery. I got it now. Sorry. Apology accepted. But you're still wrong. I find the act of despising people way too emotionally committed. Rosemary

humbugger	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #294 on: 2011-01-20, 05:24:15 »
Group: Guest	You can have the last word here on this, Rosemary. I give. Time to let the thread get back to testing Lawrence's gizmo. Humbugger

poynt99	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #295 on: 2011-01-20, 05:28:15 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3208 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	And on that note, here is my stab at what Lawrence's circuit looks like (since some folks were requesting a schematic). Please let me know if there are any errors, and I'll make the changes. .99 ------------------------ Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? Schematic01.gif (18.54 kB, 842x1002 - viewed 816 times.) --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

humbugger	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #296 on: 2011-01-20, 05:38:59 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: poynt99 on 2011-01-20, 05:28:15 And on that note, here is my stab at what Lawrence's circuit looks like (since some folks were requesting a schematic). Please let me know if there are any errors, and I'll make the changes. .99 Polarity dot missing on tertiary winding. Could be important unless duty cycle is exactly 50/50. And to pre-empt a million questions and arguments. Humbugger

poynt99	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #297 on: 2011-01-20, 05:43:08 »
Group: Administrator Hero Member Posts: 3208 It's not as complicated as it may seem...	Quote from: humbugger on 2011-01-20, 05:38:59 Polarity dot missing on tertiary winding. Could be important unless duty cycle is exactly 50/50. Humbugger I left it out as I see that as a TBD...unless it's not? .99 --------------------------- "Some scientists claim that hydrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that is the basic building block of the universe." Frank Zappa

muDped	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #298 on: 2011-01-20, 20:44:08 »
Group: Tinkerer Hero Member Posts: 3055	Quote from: aetherevarising on 2011-01-20, 03:46:53 Indeed. I think you're pointing to Lala Land. LOL. I've taken out permanent residence and am looking for full citizenship. It's a passport to the only place where I can identify with the locals. Welcome Rosemary! I've been here in Lala Land for several years. The population is slowly increasing as more and more become disenchanted with "normal" terra firma as it presently is. Lala Land is essentially terra incognita to the "establishment" and that bodes very well for all present and future "citizens." All things are possible here... Once the "free running" devices are fully explored and evaluated we may then desire to direct our attention to Pulse Width Modulated devices for purposes of comparison. PWM/PFM offers some very distinct switching advantages. --------------------------- For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.

ltseung888	Re: Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? « Reply #299 on: 2011-01-20, 22:04:58 »
Group: Guest	Quote from: poynt99 on 2011-01-20, 05:28:15 And on that note, here is my stab at what Lawrence's circuit looks like (since some folks were requesting a schematic). Please let me know if there are any errors, and I'll make the changes. .99 I made some additional notes. ------------------------ Lawrence Tseung sent a Prototype to test... any comments? poynt99 schematic1.jpg (79.52 kB, 960x720 - viewed 721 times.)

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