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Author Topic: electrolysis with nano-pulse power supply  (Read 291211 times)

Group: Professor
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Something like logical pulser circuit or MOSFET-based hgh-voltage nanosecond pulse circuit is applied to gate driving?
I think it was a switched capacitor driver based on small GaAs FETs.
Anyway the gate driving waveform looked something like this:
   

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Buy me a beer
You might try this driver

http://ixdev.ixys.com/DataSheet/99061.pdf

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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You might try this driver

http://ixdev.ixys.com/DataSheet/99061.pdf

regards

Mike 8)

Good day Centraflow

That's a decent driver, one of my favorites for driving GDTs. Usually select the TO-220 version, think it called the IXDD414CI.
I have attached another version which is actually a little faster, has an integral Schmitt trigger input, its the IXDD614. Also available in the 'CI' TO-220 package.
I have yet to try it for the SiC fets, but it does mention that it will withstand neg. 5v on the input.

take care, peace
lost_bro
« Last Edit: 2015-06-11, 03:57:58 by lost_bro »
   
Group: Guest
That's what I use, but notice the speed.  It's slower than the SIC MOSFET.  Wouldn't the gate driver then become the weak link?
   

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Buy me a beer
That's what I use, but notice the speed.  It's slower than the SIC MOSFET.  Wouldn't the gate driver then become the weak link?

Could be faster, depends on gate capacitance and voltage applied to mosfet gate (re mosfet)

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
Group: Guest
You guys are far ahead of me and far ahead of anything I can construct here with my limited resources. So tell me then, have you been able to get any unusual, super-efficient electrolysis results with those drivers and mosfets and circuit boards and such? Have you been able to validate the basic claims found in the documents listed on the first page of this thread? How about validating the use of the circuit presented there as the "nano-pulser"? Do you think the claims....er, sorry, the _statements_ of Les Banki have any merit? Do you know of any demonstrations by Banki that support his...er.... statements? Is there anyone who has even tested that circuit with an electrolysis cell? Depending on the pulse width, it is possible to at least heat up some power resistors as load, as well as warming up the little pot-core transformer I'm using, so I know it will transfer some power to a cell.

I've been thinking about implementing the full PLL functionality of that circuit (as given by Banki it only uses the chip's VCO, so could really be any oscillator at all instead of the specified 4046 chip) and turning it into a PLL-SSTC driver, with a few alterations like eliminating the unobtainable SITh device, and having the mosfet switch a higher voltage rather than simply switching the 12 v positive rail supply voltage through the load.

Oh... wait....  it looks like I've already implemented that in the circuitry for my TinselKoil IX.  The only big difference is that I don't use a gate driver chip in that circuit, instead I used a simple 2-transistor gate driver. I wonder if it would work better with the tc4420 instead. It already works pretty well.

I think I'll go ahead and wire up a couple of the unused logic gates from the 74c14, as shown in the Banki schematic, to use the 555 interrupter module from the TKIX circuit, so that the main 24-240 kHz "nanopulse" train can be gated at much lower audio frequencies.

Here's a comparison of the FFT of the PLL VCO output (a square wave, only odd # harmonic content) and the Drain signal (which has considerable even # harmonic power due to the ringing.)
« Last Edit: 2015-06-11, 19:16:37 by TinselKoala »
   

Group: Tinkerer
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When it comes to pulsed electrolysis systems I always keep
coming back to the writings of Kanarev.  His research and
experiments with low current electrolysis seem to offer
some important clues.  Then there is his extensive research
and experimentation with plasma electrolysis which has
been verified by numerous others to be definitely several
times more efficient than the "Faraday" standard.


---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
Group: Guest
@ All,

I am back from holidays and continue to work on the Electrolyser.
See below I have installed an Industrail grade Adjustable Safety Switch ( pressure range 0.5 up to 1.5 Bar)
Safety Pressure Switch (to cut the power of the electrolyser in case the pressure in the tank gets too high)
Next step I will also install a Pressure Relief Valve.

I noticed that Les have left the board, well soon I can let you know if Les statement is working or not.
Enclosing also a conversion table for pressure unit, hope this will be any help.

Greetings, Alex
   

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Everyman decries immorality
I noticed that Les have left the board, well soon I can let you know if Les statement is working or not.

Greetings, Alex

Greetings Alex,

Your fastidiousness is noted  O0


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
Group: Guest
@ All,

I want to show You the video-clip of my Engine and Generator TEST configuration I intend to run on Hydroxy-gas.
I have connected a 7.5kw /1500 RPM generator/alternator to a Honda GX-390 Singel cylinder 420 cc 13 Hp engine.
Generator/Alternator Voltage output is at 1500 RPM 230 VAC/50Hz Max. Power 7.5 kW

As you can see the generator shaft is connected with a centrifugal gearbox so I can electrically start the engine
(at this time the genset is disconnected from the engine-shaft) run the engine in stationair mode
and slowly increase the speed and at ca. 1100 RPM the centrifugal coupling comes in and start to drive the generator shaft up to 1500 or 1600 RPM as required.

I have tested this out and it works perfectly, of course at this time running on GASOLINE (95 Octane petrol) as fuel.

Greetings, Alex
« Last Edit: 2015-06-22, 19:54:21 by kampen72 »
   
Group: Guest
As you can see the generator shaft is connected with a centrifugal gearbox so I can electrically start the engine
without the load of the generator/alternator.
   
Group: Guest
I just want to say Alex, you have spared no expense in building and assembling the most professional HHO Genset system I have ever seen.  I truly do hope you are successful in this endeavor, you deserve it.

 O0
   
Group: Guest

Dear Matt Watts,

thank you for your compliments, appreciate this very much.
I am confident that replicating this project I will succeed and last but not least important credit for this project belongs to Les!

Greetings, Alex
   
Group: Guest
CNC parts and prepairing the Hydroxy gas-injector to adapt to the engine intake manifold.
See below the parts.

Greetings, Alex
« Last Edit: 2015-06-23, 19:40:09 by kampen72 »
   
Group: Guest
Alex,

Quick question about your injector parts...

I see what looks like a block-off plate, having only a hole for the injector.  If I'm not mistaken, you still want an outside airstream entering the engine.  The goal is to run a mix of air to HHO, much like a typical carburetor, but with the injector, you make sure you push the HHO into the cylinder first, then fill the rest with air.  This gives you a known quantity of HHO in the cylinder for each compression stroke.  The air that is in there with the HHO slows the burn rate so it behaves more like a petro fuel.

Unfortunately, this is the part where I pressured Les to show me some pictures on how this all works, which he declined to do.  So we're in a bit of a no-mans land.  I am pretty certain though we still need an air fuel ratio and I think it will be much higher than 14-to-1 as would be the case with gasoline.  I've heard you can go almost 100-to-1 which mandates the use of an injector.  It's this phase of the construction where the real "trick" comes into play.  Being able to lean the mixture out to 50-to-1 or more is what will allow you to keep the engine running while not consuming fuel faster than you can produce it.

So my thought is instead of a solid plate, you need an intake manifold bore to hold the column of air that will become part of the fuel charge.  Within that bore and as close to the intake valve as you can get, you will need to locate the injector.  The tube between the injector valve and the exposed air column needs to be kept as short as possible.  Remember it's timing here.  You must get that charge of HHO past the intake valve as quickly as possible, then follow it up with air until the intake valve closes.
   
Group: Guest
Dear Matt Watts,

You pointed out some of my questions of the unknowing gas/air ratio.
That's valuable information we need to know the unknowing more in detail and need to be tested out by doing = knowing.

Alex
   
Group: Guest

Just for a better understanding enclosed diagram of a four stroke engine.
   

Group: Professor
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Posts: 2502
Everyman decries immorality
doing = knowing.

Do I need to climb to the top of the Eiffel Tower and jump off to know that doing such a thing would very likely kill me ?


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
Group: Guest
Do I need to climb to the top of the Eiffel Tower and jump off to know that doing such a thing would very likely kill me ?

Hard work, determination and doing things different than previous failures is the only way.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPyUsyF_OgM
   

Group: Professor
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Posts: 2502
Everyman decries immorality
Hard work, determination and doing things different than previous failures is the only way.

"After we had conducted thousands of experiments on a certain project
without solving the problem, one of my associates, after we had
conducted the crowning experiment and it had proved a failure,
expressed discouragement and disgust over our having failed to find
out anything. I cheerily assured him that we had learned something.
For we had learned for a certainty that the thing couldn't be done
that way, and that we would have to try some other way."

The quote above comes from an interview with Edison that was published
in the January 1921 issue of American Magazine.

Apparently.

http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=747226

A range of air fuel ratio of 50:1 up to 100:1, with a gas Hydrogen + Oxygen + water vapor mix making up the 1 ? To run a car engine ?? It might tick over till the battery runs down but you will not generate any significant output power for any significant length of time. How many failures to run a car from an electrolysis cell looped to the battery will Les's be ? How many do we need before we go back to theory ? What is the energy density differential between hho gas and liquid hydrocarbon ?

The floor is yours kampen72.. rock the house..   :D


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   
Group: Guest
@ All,

I am pleased to inform you, today I have done gas-flow measurement output from my Electroyser.

See below the specs:
Input power from the grid 230 VAC/50Hz
Electrolyser 130 cell type
Electrolyte 10% Na Oh
Electrolyte start up temp. +18 C
Electrolyte working temp. +42 C
Tank pressure 0.6 Bar (continually)
Power consumption 2.325 Watt 10 A at 232 VAC  (stable read on Amp/Voltmeter)
Gas output 18 liter p/min. (stable reading on ABB HydrOxy meter)

Remark:
the HydrOxy gas output is "dry-gas" as You know I have installed a large double gas-fliter unit each with 1 micron.
The first gas-filters out the humidity, condensation is visible and the second one gives dry gas out to the HydrOxy meter.

Last but not least important I have also simulated several back-flashes and YES the 1 micron filters block safely the backflash and NO damage occurred.
To use these 1 micron filters as safety backflash is based and advised by Les so he deserves credit for this.

For the nonbelievers, I have documented all above process on videotape this is too big to upload here but I will edit and convert it to avi.

About the gasflow output: I am not an expert in this so you can do the math.
Is this any good or bad please let me know.

Alex


   

Group: Tinkerer
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kampen72 (Alex),

Your workmanship is incredible and your results
are quite impressive!

As electrolyzers such as yours are used for some
length of time their efficiency may improve.  After
a period of time a catalytic layer may form on the
plate surfaces which will enhance their ability to
produce the gases.

It would be very interesting to see how gas
production varies at, say, 1.0 Ampere intervals from
a beginning test at 1.0 Ampere gradually progressing
up to the full 10 Amperes.  Having a gas flow meter
is a very convenient component of your system.

Once again, incredible work!!
 


---------------------------
For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open.
   
Group: Guest
Input power from the grid 230 VAC/50Hz
Electrolyser 130 cell type
Electrolyte 10% Na Oh
Electrolyte start up temp. +18 C
Electrolyte working temp. +42 C
Tank pressure 0.6 Bar (continually)
Power consumption 2.325 Watt 10 A at 232 VAC  (stable read on Amp/Voltmeter)
Gas output 18 liter p/min. (stable reading on ABB HydrOxy meter)

Those numbers are actually quite impressive.  The heating is a little bit of a concern.  I would probably try a more dilute mix and find the bottom end percentage-wise.  There's a sweet spot in there where you can get good production with minimal heating.  The term used by some is "steamers".  This is when your electrolyte is more concentrated than necessary and is a common practice for wintertime operation when you do not want the liquid to freeze when shutdown and you have abundant cooling when in operation.  Since you have a drier, reducing the heat generated has two advantages:  You don't saturate your drier nearly so fast and you don't waste input energy generating unnecessary heat.

My 69 plate cell can do 13 LpM at roughly 2000 watts, so you have me beat already.  With my setup though, there is a very good chance water vapor is part of the flow rate, which is bad for numbers comparison, but may actually be a positive component for engine function--just don't know for sure.

Something else I really encourage you to try.  Get a high power variac that has an upper range slightly above line voltage and try some testing with various voltages above and below line voltage.  What you will find is since your stuck with 130 plates, you now can tweak the cell voltage to get the most optimal single plate voltage.  And that's not all, you can also use PFC capacitors on the output side to play with your phase angle a bit.  Remember, water is screwy substance; it's not purely resistive, capacitive or inductive.  It has attributes of all three and you can use those characteristics to your advantage.  In the end you want to generate the most Hydroxy for the least input power, some of which can be reactive.  Reactive power with your own generator is nearly free, so use it and see if you can squeeze out a little more or the same production, yet without taxing your generator.  Work on this a bit and then I recommend you begin driving your cell with your generator.  You can run the genset on petrol for the moment.  Focus on keeping gas production up while lowering load on the genset.  Find the best combination now before you venture off into the next phase with the electronics.
   

Group: Professor
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Posts: 2502
Everyman decries immorality
Those numbers are actually quite impressive.  The heating is a little bit of a concern.  I would probably try a more dilute mix and find the bottom end percentage-wise.  There's a sweet spot in there where you can get good production with minimal heating.  The term used by some is "steamers".  This is when your electrolyte is more concentrated than necessary and is a common practice for wintertime operation when you do not want the liquid to freeze when shutdown and you have abundant cooling when in operation.  Since you have a drier, reducing the heat generated has two advantages:  You don't saturate your drier nearly so fast and you don't waste input energy generating unnecessary heat.

My 69 plate cell can do 13 LpM at roughly 2000 watts, so you have me beat already.  With my setup though, there is a very good chance water vapor is part of the flow rate, which is bad for numbers comparison, but may actually be a positive component for engine function--just don't know for sure.

The electrolyte has shifted the waters condition to a more favourable electrical transmission and a less favourable specific heat transmission state. All hho electrolysers have water vapour present as it is a naturally occurring condition dependent on heat available, and a liquid gas boundary layer interface being present, to create a water vapour pressure. The % of H + O to water vapor is a variable, different in every cell, and can be manipulated to exploit differential properties. hhop runs on tap water with an electrolyte at saturation point, a definite slow 'steamer' by Matt's definition.

hho is a mixture of Hydrogen and Oxygen gas and saturated water vapor, a pseudo gas, when your dumping water vapor into your ICE the pseudo gas superheats absorbing heat from the engine and carrying it out to atmosphere where is condenses and gives up that latent heat, to the environment. During the superheating part of the cycle the pseudo gas (superheated steam) is at maximum expansion and doing work.

hhop is a fully bled system and therefore every volume differential change is converted to instant pressure within the specific gravity field   O0


---------------------------
Everyman Standing Order 01: In the Face of Tyranny; Everybody Stands, Nobody Runs.
Everyman Standing Order 02: Everyman is Responsible for Energy and Security.
Everyman Standing Order 03: Everyman knows Timing is Critical in any Movement.
   

Group: Experimentalist
Hero Member
*****

Posts: 2838


Buy me a beer
@ kampen72

great work, keep us posted on your results O0

regards

Mike 8)


---------------------------
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860

As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.
   
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