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Author Topic: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that...  (Read 51396 times)
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img  Grumpy
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #50 on: 2010-08-30, 17:36:10 »

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Attached is a diagram of the Tesla Transmitter to clarify my explanation.

Gain at the transmitter does not automatically equal gain at the receiver. 

If the Tesla Transmitter or Magnifier is able to accumulate energy through some means of building up the energy in the space around itself, then this may suggest that the system is capable of generating more energy than it takes to drive it.
   
img  MileHigh
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #51 on: 2010-08-30, 20:35:23 »
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AC:

We are going to have to agree to disagree.  Just like anyone that is fluent in English can usually tell when someone is using English as a second language in their written prose - within one or two paragraphs, sometimes one or two sentences you can tell that English is not their mother tongue.  The same thing applies to when someone is discussing something with respect to electronics or physics or energy.  Within two or three postings, sometimes a single posting, is is often possible to discern the knowledge level of a poster.  For example, some people when building Bedini motors say that their coil is not wound the right way.  So they unwind the coil and rewind it the opposite way.  That's telling you that the person does not possess the most basic concepts in electromagnetics.  Often experimenters joke about blowing transistors and they either replace them or try a different transistor.  That tells you that they know very little about electronics.  It may not be politically correct to say that but it's true.  So I stand by what I said about the person with the demo that you pointed to, he has no credibility.

Language is everything, and one more time you leave me puzzled.  Your arguments are often relying on citing examples that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.  We are discussing the credibility of this person's experiment and you say you know a professor that is a cowboy and an engineer that is a biker.  What does that have to do with anything?

MileHigh
« Last Edit: 2010-08-31, 01:57:09 by MileHigh »
   
img  BEP
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #52 on: 2010-08-31, 00:01:46 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-08-30, 15:54:25
Another important note is that the ground (earth) is a very good insulator.  This makes it an excellent conductor for displacement current.  So, with separated ground plates, you have another capacitive couple to complete the circuit.

I can say that I knew this. I'm glad you said it.

For some reason I haven't been applying that fact to some experiments. I'll have to figure out which ones should be redone.
The question popping up, due to your reminder, is 'does a scalar wave front actually induce eddies in the ground between two points or is that just another factoid burned into my head from years past?

High metal content?...yes, probably.
'Garden' variety earth?... not likely.

Sorry, airport layover time  :)
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #53 on: 2010-08-31, 02:35:11 »

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Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2010-08-31, 00:01:46
I can say that I knew this. I'm glad you said it.

For some reason I haven't been applying that fact to some experiments. I'll have to figure out which ones should be redone.
The question popping up, due to your reminder, is 'does a scalar wave front actually induce eddies in the ground between two points or is that just another factoid burned into my head from years past?

High metal content?...yes, probably.
'Garden' variety earth?... not likely.

Sorry, airport layover time  :)

ALL currents have a magnetic field, but the ground points and aerial points are max pressure and I do not think they "change", but if they do then they would induce eddies.
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #54 on: 2010-08-31, 21:48:36 »

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Hmmm....
   
img  BEP
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #55 on: 2010-09-01, 01:03:07 »
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Nice paper  :)

I've read it twice tonight. After I think about it, maybe a third.
   
img  BEP
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #56 on: 2010-09-01, 11:54:20 »
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G,

I'm away from my bench but having second thoughts about there being no propagated magnetic field produced by a longitudinal electro-dielectric wave.

There is a good possibility that reported null measurements, of such a magnetic field, are null only because there are two opposing radial magnetic fields generated by such a wave. The leading edge of the wave would generate a field of one handedness and the trailing edge the reverse.
Conventional magnetic measurements would show null but current, as well as charge are induced in targets.

I've been looking back into old notes on my favorite toy(EMP). The highest voltage induced was on vertical conductors. The greatest remaining static charge was on horizontal conductors of large horizontal surface area.

I'm starting to think Tesla loved his bucking pancake coils because they produced a similar dual magnetic field.
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #57 on: 2010-09-01, 16:26:05 »

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There are things that I disagree with, but I thought it was an interesting take on the subject.
   
img  BEP
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #58 on: 2010-09-03, 11:34:36 »
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EM,

Interesting graphic.

So, either the artist thinks there are dipoles moving down the wire, like charges don't repel or they are just trying to depict compression waves in an acceptable fashion?
I think if they removed the imaginary field lines and showed all as density they would be correct.

I'm not up to date on my IEEE reports. I've been filing them for a few months now.

I'll be surprised if it isn't shot-down. The same findings were reported back in the 70's as 1-wire and 0-wire.
   
img  marksnoswell
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #59 on: 2010-09-04, 14:23:20 »
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Ignatiev’s experiments elegantly and conclusively demonstrated electric potential longitudinal waves - interesting but far from the end of the story...

There are configurations of "transmitting" antennas that generate substantial parallel E and B fields (oscillating and not static fields) -- and consequently a zero value S vector...  and also configurations that generate closed S vector loops. Classical theories are lacking in their ability to explain either the generation or propagation of these zero, and non propagating configurations... Much better chance of discovering new things if you leave the confines of known territory ;)
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #60 on: 2010-09-05, 23:00:57 »

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Quote from: marksnoswell on 2010-09-04, 14:23:20
Ignatiev’s experiments elegantly and conclusively demonstrated electric potential longitudinal waves - interesting but far from the end of the story...

There are configurations of "transmitting" antennas that generate substantial parallel E and B fields (oscillating and not static fields) -- and consequently a zero value S vector...  and also configurations that generate closed S vector loops. Classical theories are lacking in their ability to explain either the generation or propagation of these zero, and non propagating configurations... Much better chance of discovering new things if you leave the confines of known territory ;)

Yes, but does it run with gain?
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #61 on: 2010-09-07, 22:54:08 »

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Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-08-25, 15:04:32
Starts on page 23 of 156 (top of PDF viewer, and is page 15 of the book)

"Chapter 2: The Rosetta Stone"

Experiences of Joseph Henry and Elihu Thomson are mentioned on page 27 pf 156.  I was able to find the articles referenced, and they are represented truly in this article.

Joseph Henry and Elihu Thomson used a Ruhmkorff coil when they encountered the shocking experience of charging all conductors in the room.

Output of a Ruhmkorff coil is attached - it is pulsed DC.
   
img  forest
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #62 on: 2010-11-15, 19:48:55 »
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The same Edison found as "etheric force" in 1875, available for checking in his lab notes.
You can easily replicate with bigger car relay 12V or more that inductive kick is really a high frequency oscillation behaving like radio waves flowing on wire.
Any tiny wire will conduct the same energy and you can prepare a series of experiments with that, for example sparking from then end of with into big iron object , spark is barely visible in plain daily light but in case of darkness it is visible.Of course working with much higher voltage brings it to the completely new level.
   
img  dag57
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #63 on: 2011-09-14, 05:06:45 »
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@ grumpy and everyone else , tesla does state in his deposition that he achieved activites of 18 million horse power.  the westinghouse generator was only rated at 50 or so hp.  ask yourself's how was this possible?  he clearly exsplains this in that deposition.  in his colorado notes he states that there is 2 ways to produce this magnifying effect or magnifying factor.  he also covers it in his notes.  tesla states that he can generate 1500 amps in his primary coil with only 26 hp expenditure on june 21, 1899.  on july 7, 1899 he writes about the 2 ways to magnify energy.  1 is a high ratio of transformation and 2 is by resonant rise.  writings of july 8 1899 are very important.  on july 11, 1899 tesla writes about the extra coil and his thoughts on that.  july 31, 1899 tesla writes about generating 500K volts at 1000 amps in the primary circuit useing only 38hp or less.    Don
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #64 on: 2011-09-14, 14:04:52 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-08-30, 17:36:10
...
If the Tesla Transmitter or Magnifier is able to accumulate energy through some means of building up the energy in the space around itself, then this may suggest that the system is capable of generating more energy than it takes to drive it.

There is neither logical reason nor experimental evidence that an accumulation of energy should generate energy.

The energy building in space follows from the linear superposition of the field from the emitter and the field re-radiated from the receiver. They add each other in the channel between the two equipments and fade outside.

The capacitive or inductive coupling of resonant circuits thanks to the terminal capacity of LC open circuits or thanks to the coils, is a conventional technology perfectly explained without longitudinal waves.
http://www.wirelesspowerconsortium.com/technology/resonant-coupling.html
   
img  exnihiloest
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #65 on: 2011-09-14, 14:48:43 »
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Quote from: dag57 on 2011-09-14, 05:06:45
@ grumpy and everyone else , tesla does state in his deposition that he achieved activites of 18 million horse power.  the westinghouse generator was only rated at 50 or so hp.  ask yourself's how was this possible?
...

Eternal confusion between power and energy. If you store 50hp during one hour and you release this energy in 1 second, you provide a power of 50*3600=180,000 hp. But during 1s only.
The question of power has no meaning if the time is not given and the time during which input energy is obtained is not the same as the time during which output energy is provided.
High Q circuits can store large amount of energy from a low power source, and release it quickly, providing a much bigger power and the same energy (minus the losses).
   
img  forest
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #66 on: 2011-09-14, 16:13:24 »
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Of course Tesla said about power not energy. Energy accumulated in long period can be released in incomparable short time = increasing activity.
But here things are going to complicate a lot !  I don't pretend I understand it but think about such analogy:

you have a BIG (I mean HUGE) bell or kind of metal plate like some used in East like China or India (don't know the name of that). Now you can be perfectly sure then when you strike it with a finger gently it would not take much power to do it but result would be also poor. You have to strike it as hard as you can and that's when Tesla used with his "increasing activity" using capacitor disruptive discharge. Capacitor disruptive discharge produce a wave which is like mechanical wave in metal and because it is fast activity is enormous. Energy is quiete low but activity enormous. No OU still.
Now that energy strike the bell and what happen ? Bell strarts to ring very loudly and it continues to do it for a LONG TIME, fadding with sound gently.
Surprisingly if you summarize energy of all sound produced it will be much more then initial kick!
Here is the secret ! There is no bigger activity flowing in resonant (undamped) circuit as initial one - and it is diminishing in time also - but overall the long time of activity makes it OU.

Here is the big question : what and where is adding energy to produce longer activity then possible with law of conservation of energy ?
is that energy added already to compressed in time initial kick (increased activity = increased power but compressed time) ? or maybe it is sustaining oscillations in resonant (undamped circuit) which makes it possible ?

There is one issue which suggest the later is going on ... you tell me what it is
   
img  forest
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #67 on: 2011-09-14, 16:17:13 »
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Another example : take elastic ball and fall it down the hard ground . Measure how high it go on each bouncing spike and summarize.Think how high it would go if that energy could be released  in one direction only not in a matter of ring down oscillation.
   
img  AllPhase
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #68 on: 2011-09-14, 19:11:25 »
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I ran across this on the Web.  It sure sounds amazing.

================================================================

Back in 1992 or 1991 Ron Brandt spent a few weeks with me and we ran his transistor switched circut using 4 batteries 6 transistors and a few other components.  we used a signal generator to adjust the switching freq for maximum output to the load. we used 4 car headlights for the load on the switching unit and 1 on each of the baseline batteries.  we had 2 extra batteries we used as baselines.  to start off we charged all batteries using an astron 50 amp powersupply. all batteries were new.

Ron told me that when he was running his electric car his neighbors car had a bad battery and he removed one from his electric car and gave it to them. the alternator on the neighbors car went up in smoke after an hour of driving.  it was more than likely running at full field trying to charge the battery.

We did not use a motor and i believe that is the secret to getting it to self charge. Ron told me he ran his car for months without charging the batteries.

He also told me a strange story that after running the car for a few hours when setting at a stop light the other cars around him all stopped running.  he called it some sort of energy field he thought it was creating. he also told me that his neighbor could not get out of her mobile home one day when he had the motor running and the car in idle for a few hours in is driveway, she yelled for help and when he went to help her it was like walking through air as thick as sand and it took almost all his energy to get to her.

After that he stopped the project to think about what was happening.

It will be interesting if anyone else will have the same battery non charging event happen to them.

Rhett


.
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #69 on: 2011-09-14, 21:01:46 »
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AllPhase,
Concerning your posted Reply #68:  I read one story, years ago, like you did.    So, here it is,  A free energy experimenter similar to Members of this blog site at OUR.com invented a system of coils, diodes, and capacitors that worked really well.  So well in fact, his system ran as intended, but "sucked" all the power from the local municipal powers mains grid and blacked out his neighborhood and surrounding ones for "several square miles."

The point is:  Members of the top Pentagon brass were extremely scared that a regular schmoe like him would be smart enough to do that on his own without them getting wise to it earlier.  They obviously took it away from him and probably told him quit experimenting electronically.     Or.  Else.

--Lee
   
img  the_big_m_in_ok
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #70 on: 2011-09-14, 21:12:36 »
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Quote from: Grumpy on 2010-09-07, 22:54:08
Output of a Ruhmkorff coil is attached - it is pulsed DC.
Another reference:
http://chestofbooks.com/crafts/popular-mechanics/Amateur-Work-4/The-Ruhmkorff-Coil.html
(This one's pretty understandable, since it's in English.  Other references on the GOOGLE Images search engine pages tend to be in fluent written French and I would be hard pressed to self-translate the text on the 'Web.)

--Lee
   
img  thx1138
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #71 on: 2012-10-12, 14:13:01 »
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Quote from: forest on 2011-09-14, 16:13:24
Of course Tesla said about power not energy. Energy accumulated in long period can be released in incomparable short time = increasing activity.
But here things are going to complicate a lot !  I don't pretend I understand it but think about such analogy:

you have a BIG (I mean HUGE) bell or kind of metal plate like some used in East like China or India (don't know the name of that). Now you can be perfectly sure then when you strike it with a finger gently it would not take much power to do it but result would be also poor. You have to strike it as hard as you can and that's when Tesla used with his "increasing activity" using capacitor disruptive discharge. Capacitor disruptive discharge produce a wave which is like mechanical wave in metal and because it is fast activity is enormous. Energy is quiete low but activity enormous. No OU still.
Now that energy strike the bell and what happen ? Bell strarts to ring very loudly and it continues to do it for a LONG TIME, fadding with sound gently.
Surprisingly if you summarize energy of all sound produced it will be much more then initial kick!
Here is the secret ! There is no bigger activity flowing in resonant (undamped) circuit as initial one - and it is diminishing in time also - but overall the long time of activity makes it OU.

Here is the big question : what and where is adding energy to produce longer activity then possible with law of conservation of energy ?
is that energy added already to compressed in time initial kick (increased activity = increased power but compressed time) ? or maybe it is sustaining oscillations in resonant (undamped circuit) which makes it possible ?

There is one issue which suggest the later is going on ... you tell me what it is
See the image at this post: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=562.msg9131#msg9131
Now imagine the pulse propagating to the other side of the planet and reflecting back to the source and at the instant the reflection arrives at the source, the source fires another disruptive discharge through the quenched spark gap.

Quote from: Nikola Tesla
Collier’s Weekly ,Talking With Planets, February 9, 1901
In a section subtitled 'Signaling at 1,000,000 miles!' Dr. Tesla states: '…succeeded in producing a machine which, to explain its operation in plain language, resembled a pump in its action, drawing electricity from the earth and driving it back into the same at an enormous rate.'

In a section subtitled 'Experiments in Colorado' he states: 'The rates of electrical movement involved in strong induction apparatus had measured but a few hundred horse-power, and I produced electrical movements of rates of one hundred and ten thousand horsepower.'

Note that the horse-power units cited contain a time element so they are power, not just energy.

Quote from: Nikola Tesla
U.S. PATENT 787,412
The most essential requirement is, however, that irrespective of frequency the wave or wave-train should continue for a certain interval of time, which I have estimated to be not less than one-twelfth or probably 0.08484 of a second and which is taken in passing to and returning from the region diametrically opposite the pole over the earth's surface with a mean velocity of about four hundred and seventy-one thousand two hundred and forty kilometers per second.


So the riniging bell comparison is correct - the earth is the bell. The '...driving it back into the same at an enormous rate.' is the 'hitting it as hard as you can' with a disruptive discharge and the quenched spark gap is what enables the 'bell' to ring for a long time. Now imagine hitting the bell in an enclosed spherical room and the sound wave hits the wall of the sphere and at the instant that the reflected sound wave returns to the bell, hit it again as hard as you can. And again, and again...

No wonder Dr. Tesla was concerned about 'splitting the world in two'. Which would split first? The bell or the sphere?

The problem here is that his system requires the use of the whole planet as the bell. The whole planet is a component part of the mechanism that both supplies the power and performs the 'magnification' so it can't be used that way today. He had a planet unsullied by the last hundred years of infrastructure development.
   
img  giantkiller
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #72 on: 2012-10-12, 17:18:09 »

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Frequency equals matter...


Buy me a drink
So we take this model and apply it the Tesla earthquake machine and the TPU.

Quote from: thx1138 on 2012-10-12, 14:13:01
See the image at this post: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=562.msg9131#msg9131
Now imagine the pulse propagating to the other side of the planet and reflecting back to the source and at the instant the reflection arrives at the source, the source fires another disruptive discharge through the quenched spark gap.
 
Note that the horse-power units cited contain a time element so they are power, not just energy.
 

So the riniging bell comparison is correct - the earth is the bell. The '...driving it back into the same at an enormous rate.' is the 'hitting it as hard as you can' with a disruptive discharge and the quenched spark gap is what enables the 'bell' to ring for a long time. Now imagine hitting the bell in an enclosed spherical room and the sound wave hits the wall of the sphere and at the instant that the reflected sound wave returns to the bell, hit it again as hard as you can. And again, and again...

No wonder Dr. Tesla was concerned about 'splitting the world in two'. Which would split first? The bell or the sphere?

The problem here is that his system requires the use of the whole planet as the bell. The whole planet is a component part of the mechanism that both supplies the power and performs the 'magnification' so it can't be used that way today. He had a planet unsullied by the last hundred years of infrastructure development.


---------------------------
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/
   
img  forest
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #73 on: 2012-10-12, 17:59:49 »
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Yes , except it works for any conductor, Earth has just some advantages over straight metalic  conductor. It has vry low resistance when computed by its size ,and it has the best insulator ever and it has the largest amount of electrons stored.
   
img  Grumpy
Re: Radiant Electricty, Cold Current, and all that... « Reply #74 on: 2012-10-12, 18:58:20 »

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Why don't you just move "space" rather than the conductor and magnetic field?
   
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