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Author Topic: The Death of the Lenz Law  (Read 164491 times)
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MH
Quote:
I am more or less content to wait for the big bust whenever it happens.

Yeah right!!,You know you can't help yourself!,But I don't mind in the least!

Besides there are fellahs over at the other thread that know their way around the EE field
Teslaalset being one of them [Top shelf !!}
Chet
   
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   This brings to mind the one question I have considering coil shorting.
Matched caps loaded with equal jules. One at 10v and 1 amp, the other
1 volt at 10 amps. They under apropriate load will deliver the same out
put.
   If a shorted coil that puts out 3 volts and delivers say 24 to a cap, it
will then have less amps. In the end jules the same?

   I saw a vid some time ago that did the same but with a neon bulb.
As run by its self, would not work. Short it and it would lite up. Thats
about 90v for that to happen. What would the amps be tho. This is what
I want to test for. The loads will have to be taylored to the voltage level
for each one but...

thay
   
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  This brings to mind the one question I have considering coil shorting.
Matched caps loaded with equal jules. One at 10v and 1 amp, the other
1 volt at 10 amps. They under apropriate load will deliver the same out
put.
  

I don't get what you mean when you talk about how many amps each capacitor is "loaded with".

The energy (joules) stored in a cap is 1/2 CV^2.  The amps don't come into play until a load is applied to discharge the caps and the current will depend on the load value and cap voltage.

If you have two identical value caps and one is charged to 1 Volt while the other is charged to 10 Volts, the 10 Volt one holds 100 times more energy (joules) than the 1 Volt one.

http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electric/capeng2.html

Hum

P.S.  An identical set of rules applies to inductors, except it's 1/2 LI^2.  Two identical value inductors, one with 1A through it and the other with 10A flowing.  The 10A one holds 100x the energy,  The voltage only becomes evident when a load is applied.  If the load is 1 Ohm, for instance, the 1A inductor will initially cause 1 Volt across the load while the 10A inductor will cause a 10V EMF on the load.

Now if the load resistor is raised to 1000 Ohms, the initial theoretical impulse voltages across that resistor will be 1000 Volts for the coil with 1A flowing and 10,000 Volts for the inductor with 10A flowing.  Seems amazing, but it's just normal classic formula stuff.
   

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The high speed current doesnt have to be high amperage. Heading up into the electrostatic range simply means higher kinetic energy. At the higher speeds every form of conduction has its reactance raised culminating into resistance. Even jello can kill you at the correct velocity. What i learned paragliding is 'Everything above 22 feet is concrete.
Smack any form of conduction and we get a reaction. Goes back to what SM said about the jumping jumper cables. They move. In the smaller masses they light up. What kind of high speed potential would it take to light up a jumper cable?


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The high speed current doesnt have to be high amperage. Heading up into the electrostatic range simply means higher kinetic energy. At the higher speeds every form of conduction has its reactance raised culminating into resistance. Even jello can kill you at the correct velocity. What i learned paragliding is 'Everything above 22 feet is concrete.
Smack any form of conduction and we get a reaction. Goes back to what SM said about the jumping jumper cables. They move. In the smaller masses they light up. What kind of high speed potential would it take to light up a jumper cable?

By "speed" of current do you mean the rate of change of the current or do you mean the speed with which the electrons move?

I confess that I almost never have any idea what you are actually saying in any of your posts GK...sorry, must be my inexperience with your terminology and new age thinking in general.  In the above post, for instance, there is only one sentence that has a clear statement that means anything (to my old-fashioned way of thinking).

"Even jello can kill you at the correct velocity."  I understand that one.  Eating Jello at more than two meters per second is always fatal.  Right?   C.C

Hum

P.S.  When playing with SHORTED COILS, jumping jumper cables and high-speed currents, or even when eating JELLO AT HIGH VELOCITIES, BE SURE YOU ALWAYS WEAR YOUR...

(Lenz, I understand, died the day he forgot this important advice)
« Last Edit: 2011-02-21, 19:25:38 by humbugger »
   

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I was referring to Tesla's high frequency voltages and currents.


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I don't understand anything either!

Even Jello at zero meters per second could be fatal.  If you tried to have sex in a bathtub full of Jello, you could die of hypothermia.   :-*

It's all about the size of the dosage.  Even water in high dosages can be fatal.  Too much Jello at low velocity or less Jello at high velocity can kill you.
   
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I don't understand anything either!

Even Jello at zero meters per second could be fatal.  If you tried to have sex in a bathtub full of Jello, you could die of hypothermia.   :-*

It's all about the size of the dosage.  Even water in high dosages can be fatal.  Too much Jello at low velocity or less Jello at high velocity can kill you.

I've noticed that the cherry flavor tends to be less lethal in most cases.  In the bathtub, I mean.   >:-)

@GK  Thank you for responding.  Of all the claimed OU devices, I find the SM units and demonstrations and surrounding anecdotes to be some of the most interesting, as you seem to also.  I'd try to build one if the information weren't so cryptic and all over the map.  For instance, I don't get all the speculation and hints that electron tubes are "the way to go".  I never saw anything in any of his demo vids that looked like it could have tubes in it.

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This is the unfortunate frustruation we have to endure when it comes to "over-unity" devices.   The information is all over the map, second, or even third hand information that contradicts itself.

For example,  take Ishmael's "invention",  the guy that wrote to Stephan claims he worked with Ishmael and that his secret is shorting the generator coils at the peak induced voltage,  while other posts clearly indicate that the energy comes from a receiver, and there's photos of it on his car.   So which is it, a motor/generator phenomena or an antenna?

By the way, the logic they used to explain shorting the coil and insisting that the kick-back has to go into a CAPACITOR and not a RESISTOR, initialy, indicates to me that somebody is thinking about reactive circuits and reactive power and they think that if a resistor is used directly then that would mean loses.   So they say to first charge up the capacitor AND THEN to swich the capacitor and discharge it into the resistor.    What they fail to realize is that reactive power is actual power that flows in then out, so if you time average it comes out to zero, BUT IF YOU RECTIFY IT, you better be sure that you're putting a drain and DRAG on the motor/generator because you're taking energy from it, it might not be a whole lot of drag, but it's there in short bursts.  Then they talk about voltage.    That realy makes me shake my head.  I see so many "OU researchers"  getting excited about higher voltages, and not realize the current is smaller, keeping the power constant excluding losses.  It's as if they don't know that power equals V*I.    Or some folks devise some coil kickback scheme and get all excited that they can up the voltage and light a light bulb from a battery.  Woopdedoo.   Apparently they don't know how inverters work.

But I should say, a keen researcher wades through all this crap, and tries to spot pearls if there are any.

anyway, just some ramblings from me.   slow day at work.

EM
« Last Edit: 2011-02-22, 01:08:06 by EMdevices »
   

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@GK  Thank you for responding.  Of all the claimed OU devices, I find the SM units and demonstrations and surrounding anecdotes to be some of the most interesting, as you seem to also.  I'd try to build one if the information weren't so cryptic and all over the map.  For instance, I don't get all the speculation and hints that electron tubes are "the way to go".  I never saw anything in any of his demo vids that looked like it could have tubes in it.

Hum

Tubes have inherent fidelity that solid state doesn't. He was pointing at the high Q resonance to obtain. The self destructing transformers exhibit this harmonic dance.
Keely attained this at the molecular, atomic and sub atomic layers. The goal is sympathetic vibratory resonance. Farahdays post of the spark shows the start of the energy to use. So if we hit a coil with a fet we essentially get out of the way of the natural ringing. Then we just hit it again at the correct time.
« Last Edit: 2011-02-22, 03:48:27 by giantkiller »


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Well Speaking or Ringing
I see Christ Church New Zealand Got Whacked with a big Quake,[home to Peter Davey]
I don't know if Peter Davey is still alive ,but if he is I hope he open sources his Water Heater soon!

Hope all is well with the folks in NZ.

Chet
   
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Humbugger
A responce to GK
Quote:
I confess that I almost never have any idea what you are actually saying in any of your posts GK...sorry, must be my inexperience with your terminology and new age thinking in general.  In the above post, for instance, there is only one sentence that has a clear statement that means anything (to my old-fashioned way of thinking).
------------------
Sir,
This will be a problem !Folks that have seen things they can't understand or explain in conventional terms
will seem way outside the box to folks that havent seen it!

Fellows that work everyday with circuits and such ,get a feel for the normal!
And when things happen on their bench ,Huge bursts of energy that fissle and poof much, much more than is possible they look for the causes ,and struggle for explanations!
These things do happen! Most men when they chase this monster work with small very low power circuits!
The things that come onto the bench sometimes ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, well they change your life!

GK is one of the men that has had such a life changing experience!

I do hope that sometime soon we will all get a chance to add some vocabulary to these events,and get a much better understanding than "the reason your # 2 ought wire fried and snapped in half, is because you can't take proper measurements and you don't really understand the power in a triple a battery!

Sorry for so many posts today
Ijust get frustrated
Chet

  
   

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Get hurt then get smart.
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=33.msg11168#msg11168

If you don't want to get smart and receive the results then practice a little electro-alchemy. Jury rig the switches on your microwave door, stick you head in the box and press the 'On' button. This alleviates any future equipment costs and experience effort besides giving access to instant, permanent achievment of nirvana.
You'll be amazed at the 'Instant lesson'. Should answer any questions anyone would have about the afterlife. So you get your answer in two places. And you graduate with flying colors!

There have been many great submissions about junction conduction and thingy ringing. But what does the ouput do? When Tesla threw the knife switch he noticed a great many things. The rest of the men just flew off their feet and lost limbs. We have more men what is needed is greater thinking. O0


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Chet:

You raise some interesting issues, although I suppose the themes periodically crop up.  I will respond and chances are you are not going to like it.  Such is life, I have to speak what I am pretty sure is true.

Folks that have seen things they can't understand or explain in conventional terms
will seem way outside the box to folks that havent seen it!

Fellows that work everyday with circuits and such ,get a feel for the normal!
And when things happen on their bench ,Huge bursts of energy that fissle and poof much, much more than is possible they look for the causes ,and struggle for explanations!

GK is one of the men that has had such a life changing experience!

I do hope that sometime soon we will all get a chance to add some vocabulary to these events,and get a much better understanding than "the reason your # 2 ought wire fried and snapped in half, is because you can't take proper measurements and you don't really understand the power in a triple a battery!

To put things in context, just a few days ago I said that the person that was playing with the rotor and the reed switch and the LEDs was doing nothing special.  You didn't really believe me and were quite excited about it.  A few days passed and nobody could explain what was going on.  Finally I chimed in and explained what was going on.

With respect to your comments above and speaking in general terms, yes indeed folks have seen things that they don't understand and can't explain.  The problem lies in the fact that they can be explained in conventional terms and nothing that is being observed is "way outside the box."  The root cause of this is ignorance and a lack of education.  That's the tough truth and you can paint me as the bad guy if you want, but it's still the truth.

When you talk about people working on the bench and observing "huge bursts of energy" and state that they are observing "much more than is possible" it sounds to me like you are playing into your free energy fantasies.  It would be great if somebody developed a free energy system but seeing a big spark from a discharging coil is certainly not free energy.

Giantkiller, you are one of the experimenters that sees big bursts of energy.  I can only offer up a thought experiment that will very sobering for you and for Chet.  If you could spend a week with a seasoned electrical engineer and work with him on the bench that would be a very enlightening experience.  You could show the electrical engineer all of your experiments with different coil configurations and your high voltage pulsing and your frequency mixing, whatever.  Every single experiment that you demonstrate to the electrical engineer would be understood and explained back to you by the engineer. It's the same thing like I said about the Joule Thief circuit.  Lawrence was going on and on about the "pseudo resonance" associated with the Joule Thief and there was nothing like that going on at all.

This applies to all of the other experimenters too, I am not pointing my finger at any specific person.  I am not trying to discourage anybody from experimenting or having fun.  Think back to Romero with the rotor and reed switch and LEDs.  In an ideal world the experimenters would be climbing up a learning curve and doing experiments and then doing the background work to understand them, and then keep on pushing forward.  But we live in the real world and not an ideal world.

Finally Chet you talk about adding to the vocabulary to describe various events.  The truth is that the vocabulary already exists.  Nothing new or strange or unexplainable is going on.

I know these words I am saying are not giving either of you the warm and fuzzies.  I am just telling you the truth as I see it, you can take it or leave it.

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I think I need a Hug!!

Warm and Fuzzy!

Listen, Its not possible for you to Hurt our feelings on this ,I have freinds that have circuits they worked /designed
running around on mars right now [they hurt my feelings all the time].

When it happens You'll know about it! There won't be any measuring thingy to question.

In the mean time .................
Chet
   

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Group hug?
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sk5XG3DpXg&feature=related[/youtube]

or proper language attack:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2uykzsoPe4&feature=relmfu[/youtube]


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MH, I think you sum things up quite nicely with this paragragh.

With respect to your comments above and speaking in general terms, yes indeed folks have seen things that they don't understand and can't explain.  The problem lies in the fact that they can be explained in conventional terms and nothing that is being observed is "way outside the box."  The root cause of this is ignorance and a lack of education.  That's the tough truth and you can paint me as the bad guy if you want, but it's still the truth.

All too often conventional science does not even get a look-in, being totally disregarded in favour of some more mysterious 'exotic' explanation.  Ignorance and lack of education has an awful lot to answer for!
   

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Steven Mark's challenge to the status quo still stands:
Explain what the TPU is doing and build one that works.

The BS flies while others try...

What if the thumping are dynamic standing waves exercising force at varying distances?


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Farrah:

You are correct about the conventional science angle not getting some coverage also.  It's mainly an observation of course, it's up to individuals to decide for themselves.  At the same time I don't see people asking questions when I think they should be asking questions.  We are also discussing Ismael Aviso's "free energy car" in this thread and I don't see any tough questions.

Giantkiler:

For Steven Mark and the TPU, I am not aware of anything substantive.  For Steven Mark I am not fully versed in all the material that's available.  I believe the principle material is from videotape clips that were made in the 1990s that are still in circulation on YouTube.  The term "TPU" probably covers a lot of devices so I am assuming there is tons of material out there.  But is there any substance to that material?  That's a big question.

Here is a question for you about these two "technologies:"  Does anybody have a working device right now as we speak?

Quote
The BS flies while others try...

You can call it BS if you want but I stand by every word I say.  You are free to tell me where I am incorrect or spouting BS and we can debate it.  If you are just slipping in a generic comment there then I will assume that you were in spin mode and you can't cite any specifics.

Trying is great but clutching at straws is something people want to avoid.

Quote
What if the thumping are dynamic standing waves exercising force at varying distances?

If you could define "thumping" and "dynamic standing waves" and what force at varying distances from what I might be able to comment.

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Look, Its your favorite OU personality,The one ,The only ,That man you all love to Hate!
A man Of Impeccable Morale Fiber!

SSSSsssssTerling Allan.......................

hartiberlin
Quote:

Yes, I also think Aviso should not concentrate on cars,
bust just show an overunity power supply.

Okay, it can also be used for cars, but this
will mostly wake up the wrong people probably.

Did you all hear the new interview with Sterling Allan ?

See:
http://pesn.com/2011/02/21/9501769_How_Aviso_extracts_energy_from_surroundings_to_power_his_EV/

and here is the interview:

http://www.mevio.com/episode/270096/fen.110221

So, it was a bit hard to understand for me as the phone line had some hum
and the accent was a bit hard to understand.

But what I gathered from the interview was the following:

He uses low impedance coils to discharge caps probably charged up with high voltage.
This way he creates very big oscillations and the oscillations probably have a high Q factor
as there is not much resistance in his LC dicharge circuits, so he has big oscllation amplitudes.

As he is also using low impedance ( low ohmic resistance) coils, he also can switch
the current very fast. He is working in the 700 Mhz to 1.2 GHz range....
So this is a frequency range, where you need a lot of experience and also need expensive
m
measurement equipment to be able to see waveforms on a scope for instance, so
it is not really easy to working with such high frequencies.
Also it seems he is then creating a carrier frequency from this discharge ringing
and this seems to convert environmental heat energy from the surroundings
of the coil into electrical energy.
Well, as this is already a very low infared frequency range so to speak,
it might be possible that he just taps into heat energy and cools it down this way.

So probably his coil cools down during this process and converts the heat to electrical energy.

His "special transistor" is just an array of cheap MOSFET transistors to replace expensice IGBT devices.
So if he blows up a few MOSFETs it is cheaper to replace 8 x 1 US$ MOSFETS than buying 1 x IGBT at 250 US$.

But how he is using them at 700 Mhz to 1.2 Ghz is a puzzle to me...

Are there 1 US$ MOSFETs that can switch this fast

Maybe if you did understand it better than me, please add your comments what you heard...

Many thanks also to Sterling  who did this interview.

Regards, Stefan

   
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Chet:

Some choice tidbits from Sterling's article:

Quote
He was also visited recently by a billionaire interested in funding his technology, but who is primarily interested in Aviso developing the repelling force to create a multi-megawatt, utility-scale power device.

I think we are jumping the gun here.  Plus you have to put your "reality check" hat on.  It just doesn't jive.

Quote
He then shorts the capacitor at a certain frequency which "will vibrate into a bigger level by means of cascading."

I saw that in Half-Life!!!  Cascading what???

Quote
Aviso says he uses the back EMF as a carrier, making its own oscillations, which attract energy from the surrounding ambient, giving help to the battery.

Awesome.  Let's see him demonstrate that on a bench.

Quote
Apparently his "repelling force" uses some of these same principles, enabling the creation of a very powerful electromagnet with a very low impedance coil, so that a small input of energy can result in a powerful repelling force. Aviso wants to engineer this repelling force into a generator for base load power production, drawing unseen energy from the environment. He is confident this could be scalable from small to large applications.

Time to rewrite all of the physics textbooks.

Quote
A highlight in our interview today, for me, was when Aviso described designing and improving his own transistor which could handle the effects he is harnessing. The traditional transistor will burn out easily from the high frequency pulsing and spikes.

Add semiconductor physicist to the list.

Quote
He said the "gate" or base is the problem. It is sensitive to "attacks by high frequency" or any spikes. He studied this and came up with a solution, which he has continued to improve.

It talks like a semiconductor physicist, so it can't be a duck.

Quote
Then Channel 7 called last Wednesday and wanted to come the next day. He told them it was dismantled, and he didn't think it could have it running by the time they got there.

Dammit!  That always happens!

Quote
One very good thing that came out of the timing of Channel 7's visit was that they were able to accompany him to his meeting with the technical evaluation council created by the government especially for considering his technology.

Incredible!

Quote
While I would congratulate Aviso on the interest that a US Billionaire is showing him in producing a 100 MW plant

I almost forgot; throw in private consultant for power plant design and construction at $350 per hour.

I'm telling you Chet, you have to be "crazy" to believe any of this stuff.

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Good night Chet, good night David and good night from NBC news (No body's Conscious).


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I decided to subject myself to some of Sterling's audio interview with Aviso:

Quote Aviso:
Quote
the back-EMF, although it's high voltage, but the current is so low

Poof!  That's the end of Aviso because he clearly doesn't know what he is talking about.  I listened to about 15 minutes worth of the interview.

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MH
Did you miss the "Ismael is a gifted electrical engineer part"?
Saudi Arabia Microwave Tech "Wiz kid" Part?

I thought you said we needed to work a week with an EE?

I'm confused.....................................

I wanna go work with Ismael!!

Chet
   

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The mindset of 'Needing' current is incorrect.

Uh oh I can hear it now.

How else can a bulb be lit with one wire? Kinetic force. We don't burn the destination, we shake it.

I repeat, uh oh.

We shake it?
This is what the kinetic force does by application of very, very fast, high speed, high frequency pulses or spark gaps. Same thing. Uh oh...

All the circuits that are mysterious all have the same thing. High speed switching, heterodyning multiple frequencies or spark gaps.
Why are there so many arguments over this application? If the device has this aspect included in it then the viewer that is suspicious or argumentative should take a deeper look. Who dare would argue with Tesla, Dollard, Moray, Smith, EVGray or Hutchison? They all have spark gaps. Hello?
Tesla production was with spark gaps which propelled his circuits into resonance. Hutchison goes one step farther by application of the resonance to produce molecular stress using Tesla coils. Keely is the grand daddy of them all by applying high frequencies created from metal spheres, very high frequencies and applying them to stress the molecular bonds.

Does any body else see this? Am I alone in this vigil?
http://www.antenna-theory.com/basics/aperture.php
http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html
Quote
http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/SparkGapExp/SparkGapExp.htm
Quote
http://tlt.its.psu.edu/mto/energy/sparkgap.html

Quote
NOT CRACKPOTTY AFTER ALL
Note that this does not violate any rules of conventional physics. If we add stronger EM fields, they sum with the incoming EM plane waves and cause these radio waves to bend towards the tiny antenna, and the antenna absorbs them. This increases the antenna's EA (effective area, or effective aperture.) We can use this process to alter the coupling between the antenna and the surrounding space, but the total energy still follows the conservation law. The altered fields only change the "virtual size" or EA of the antenna.

More importantly, the phenomenon is quite limited. We can only use it with electrically "small" antennas. We cannot increase the "virtual size" much beyond a quarter wavelength for the waves involved. If we already have a large 1/2-wave dipole, then no matter how large is our artificially-add AC voltage, we cannot make it absorb more incoming waves. However, if we have an extremely small antenna, say, a 10KHz loop antenna the size of a pie plate, we can make that antenna seem very, very large indeed. Think like this: how large is the diameter of the antenna's nearfield region at 10KHz? Around 10 kilometers? What if we could extract half of the incoming energy from that entire volume?!! In theory we can: half can be absorbed, and the other half scattered. In theory a tiny loop antenna sitting on your lab bench can intercept just as much energy as a longwire 1/2-wave antenna which is 10KM long. Bizarre, eh?

Quote
BUT HOW DO ATOMS DO IT?
OK, if this supposedly explains how tiny atoms can receive long light waves, how can we increase the voltage signal to a SINGLE ATOM?! Actually it's not difficult. No angstrom-sized radio transmitter is needed. The key is to use EM energy stored as oscillating fields; i.e. resonance.

If an atom resonates electromagnetically at the same frequency as the incident light waves, then, from a Classical standpoint, that atom's internal resonator will store EM energy accumulated from the incoming waves. It will then behave as an oscillator, becoming surrounded by an increasingly strong AC electromagnetic field as time goes by. (Quantum Mechanics might say that the atom is surrounded by virtual photons at the resonant frequency.) If this alternating field is locked into the correct phase with the incoming light wave, then the atom's fields can interact with the light waves' fields and cancel out quite a bit of the light energy present in the nearfield region around the atom. The energy doesn't vanish, instead it ends up INSIDE the atom. Half of the energy goes into kicking an electron to a higher level, and the other half is re-emitted as "scattered" waves.


By resonantly creating an "anti-wave", which superposes with incoming waves and bends them towards the atom, the tiny atom has "sucked energy" out of the enormously long light waves as they go by. And since the atom has no conventional copper coils inside it wasting energy, it can build up some really strong fields which allow it to behave extremely "large" when compared to it's physical diameter.


Or is this all just a circle jerk? Uh oh.



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