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2024-05-20, 04:08:34
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Author Topic: STEAP and the TPU (Read 56090 times)

3D Magnetics	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #50 on: 2021-12-02, 00:13:46 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Sr. Member Posts: 331	Thanks for the pointers Mike, Hers is my gate drives after the 3120 driver. The b drive is blocked by a and c at the led driver end and seems to be doing its job ok these settings are as per info. assuming 1mhz resonance mine is 1.1 If i adjust the duty on b to be higher, the b pulses fatten up but they become uneven . At no time is b on when a or or c are on . No matter how far I zoom in the logic holds true.. I can scope this reliably with common earths a long as I dont apply main power source early days I know. Off to fly my ultralight to clear my head . ------------------------ STEAP and the TPU timing.jpg (94.99 kB, 1080x705 - viewed 692 times.)

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #51 on: 2021-12-02, 06:28:43 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	Lindsay The B logic is wrong, when A and C switch OFF B switches On then again within its frequency time before A and or C are On again. Regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #52 on: 2021-12-02, 06:57:35 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	Your problem is using the SG for "B", in the 4047s I use I am gating B with C, look closely. Off shopping Regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

web000x	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #53 on: 2021-12-02, 08:17:32 »
Sr. Member Posts: 286	Quote from: Centraflow on 2021-12-02, 06:28:43 Lindsay The B logic is wrong, when A and C switch OFF B switches On then again within its frequency time before A and or C are On again. Regards Mike This is what my logic looks like. I’ve abandoned the function generator for now and am using 4047 IC’s per Mike’s schematic. Dave ------------------------ STEAP and the TPU 028B970C-5EA7-4A01-8CCA-DC69B2CB1502.jpeg (367.86 kB, 1280x960 - viewed 575 times.)

3D Magnetics	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #54 on: 2021-12-02, 08:41:34 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Sr. Member Posts: 331	Quote from: Centraflow on 2021-12-02, 06:57:35 Your problem is using the SG for "B", in the 4047s I use I am gating B with C, look closely. Off shopping Regards Mike Thank you ... I have the other board almost done , I want so much to use the dds for future builds . Is the accuracy of the 4047 lc a stability problem ? Playing with the hetrodyning and the dds is very accurate . .1 hz difference at 5000 and 2500 sees the c2 voltage pumping rate at .1hz so accurate! If anyone can come up with a strategy that has the dds as reference source it will be better for learning than twiddling pots . I will have one more go with some cowboy logic as see if i cant ruin the timing completely! Another thought came to me at 6500ft regarding hendershot's method and it made me wonder if one could wire wrap a decent poly cap or a stripped down electrolytic as a core ? Yes I was High !

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #55 on: 2021-12-02, 12:32:13 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	Quote from: 3D Magnetics on 2021-12-02, 08:41:34 Thank you ... I have the other board almost done , I want so much to use the dds for future builds . Is the accuracy of the 4047 lc a stability problem ? If you use good quality caps then it is very stable, I really do think SM used the same IC's, "why" because the frequencies would not have made sense when using the sync: (your CD4011), because "B" would follow the same frequency exactly as "C", it's that simple to see. So it is a question of gating "A" and "B" to use the different frequencies, apart from that you have to think about what "B" is really doing. Playing with the hetrodyning and the dds is very accurate . .1 hz difference at 5000 and 2500 sees the c2 voltage pumping rate at .1hz so accurate! If anyone can come up with a strategy that has the dds as reference source it will be better for learning than twiddling pots . I will have one more go with some cowboy logic as see if i cant ruin the timing completely! Another thought came to me at 6500ft regarding hendershot's method and it made me wonder if one could wire wrap a decent poly cap or a stripped down electrolytic as a core ? Yes I was High ! [/quote] It must be good stuff Regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #56 on: 2021-12-02, 17:57:12 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	This should help Regards Mike ------------------------ STEAP and the TPU Synchronisation 02122021.png (81.34 kB, 1632x920 - viewed 582 times.) --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #57 on: 2021-12-02, 19:26:02 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	Quote from: web000x on 2021-12-02, 08:17:32 This is what my logic looks like. I’ve abandoned the function generator for now and am using 4047 IC’s per Mike’s schematic. Dave That is it Regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #58 on: 2021-12-02, 19:45:18 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	In post 32 as below:- While I'm at it, C2 capacitance on my unit is 22nF, C1 is 416pF, C1 voltage should be Around 11000v, source of "B" is around 200v. to ground. Regards Mike « Last Edit: 2021-11-27, 17:16:05 by Centraflow » Has been altered but not by me C2 should read 0.22uF and V out 20v NOT 200V. I use a KEMET axial cap rated at 3kvDC, 750vAC Someone has hacked my post using my name at the time shown above, that is what happens I suppose on an open thread. Tomorrow I will go through the rest of my posts. Regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

3D Magnetics	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #59 on: 2021-12-03, 03:03:05 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Sr. Member Posts: 331	Well explained I had the waveform like the drawing which was not to scale as far as duty cycle goes. main pcb almost done .. I know how hard it is to get all this across to many different builders . One thing that was obvious was that the light output and heat on the mosfets seemed disproportionate to the tiny current draw100ma at 20v . back to work . Post 37 mentions the 200v .. is it the same context? I hope we are not being victims of the sm security team .

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #60 on: 2021-12-03, 11:18:46 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	Quote from: 3D Magnetics on 2021-12-03, 03:03:05 Well explained I had the waveform like the drawing which was not to scale as far as duty cycle goes. main pcb almost done .. I know how hard it is to get all this across to many different builders . One thing that was obvious was that the light output and heat on the mosfets seemed disproportionate to the tiny current draw100ma at 20v . back to work . Post 37 mentions the 200v .. is it the same context? I hope we are not being victims of the sm security team . Post 37 should read 20 and 40v, but that is at startup, that was a mistake of mine, one to many zeros Regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

3D Magnetics	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #61 on: 2021-12-03, 11:32:23 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Sr. Member Posts: 331	I just spent a long day fixing my errors and losing it ...all working sort of now. Did you change the 4047 gating on the new 4011 diagram the first and second 4047 are wired differently ..it had me going in circles ..I still dont know if its wrong or right as the earlier version they were gated the same . brain dead now .. thanks for the clarification , I hope we can all see how errors are just so easy to make even asking the right question is a challenge sometimes Thank you

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #62 on: 2021-12-03, 11:37:49 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	Here is another scope shot, it's inverted but again this is not a full running shot of the TPU powered up. It is without the charge chokes and the Mosfets, as in the previous scope shot I posted, just the direct input to the Drains of "A" and "C" at the lowest setting of my SG. This shows quite well the resonant effects of all the coils and this special C1 capacitance, scoped at the "B" drain to TPU ground. Regards Mike ------------------------ STEAP and the TPU IMG_20210706_094343.jpg (1433.81 kB, 3264x1840 - viewed 515 times.) --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #63 on: 2021-12-03, 11:42:10 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	Quote from: 3D Magnetics on 2021-12-03, 11:32:23 I just spent a long day fixing my errors and losing it ...all working sort of now. Did you change the 4047 gating on the new 4011 diagram the first and second 4047 are wired differently ..it had me going in circles ..I still dont know if its wrong or right as the earlier version they were gated the same . brain dead now .. thanks for the clarification , I hope we can all see how errors are just so easy to make even asking the right question is a challenge sometimes Thank you Must be the middle of the night for you "A" is normal gating and "B" is complimented gating, "C" is just astable from the Q output but duty adjusted. Regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #64 on: 2021-12-03, 11:44:43 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	Make sure you are using only the Q outputs of the 4047's as they are exactly 50% duty to start with but half the oscillator frequency, the oscillator is not an exact 50% for that reason. Regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

3D Magnetics	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #65 on: 2021-12-03, 12:06:45 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Sr. Member Posts: 331	8pm here ,past my bedtime though. I will have a clear head tomorrow . All ducks are lined up . Ten years younger is my wish to santa claus .

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #66 on: 2021-12-03, 12:44:32 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	Quote from: 3D Magnetics on 2021-12-03, 12:06:45 8pm here ,past my bedtime though. I will have a clear head tomorrow . All ducks are lined up . Ten years younger is my wish to santa claus . I'm wishing for 10 as well, and an electric mountain bike Regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

3D Magnetics	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #67 on: 2021-12-06, 07:14:16 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Sr. Member Posts: 331	Ok, I have built the circuit ...2times now . There is something not happening right ,could you give a rundown on what to expect from each output and the pots function ? I have eliminated error on my part as the second nest build works the same as the suspect messy build. perhaps some waveform and test points ...of course I could have made the same mistake twice .I have metered everything with no chips and it agrees . Thanks

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #68 on: 2021-12-06, 07:44:30 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	Hi Lindsay Later today I will run through the electronics. You have to be careful which inputs and outputs you are using of the 4047s.what ever you do do not use the oscillator output as it is not 50%duty. The output to use is the Q high output. The pot on the 4047 is just your frequency setting, the other 3 pots are your duty On with control, I hope you are not using a diode on those controls as I removed them some time back as they were only when using a sine wave input. Later more detail. Regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #69 on: 2021-12-06, 12:23:34 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	This will help to understand the 4047 and what I have done. https://diyodemag.com/education/the_classroom_cd4047_astable_monostable_multivibrator Note the explanation of True gating and Complimentary gating, which is what I have used as triggering from the "C" Q output via the "4011" sync chip. Like most ICs they are sensitive on the input connections which are not used, they should be tied to the appropriate V+ or V- rails. You must use the cap and resistor at the 4 and 5 gating inputs, this stops bounce. Note that I have used the duty corrected signal from "C" to control the sync. into the 4011. "A" and "B" are duty corrected from the "Q" outputs. Note I have run the "C" output through two inverting gates before going to the driver IC, this is to delay the timing because the "A" and "B" pulses have a little more plumbing, I did this only for that reason. The 3 pots and capacitors used on the gates of the 40106 are just timing the ON pulse of the signals, they do not change the frequency, just the ON duty %. Regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #70 on: 2021-12-06, 12:48:13 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	If anyone wants more clarification of anything, please ask, my brain does work in strange ways sometimes On that point, a reminder that my schematics are not ALWAYS full working schematics, and or they can be improved over time. Tuning is difficult because timing is everything, and I have been working on making it a little easier without using half-bridge drivers for the input signals. I have also taken heed of what Toni has said about using two diodes from C3 to the charge chokes, and this is what I have come up with which seems to make tuning easier. Use only one diode supplying to the 2 charge chokes. Use a diode from the drain of "A" and "C" before connecting to the TPU. This helps stop "C" from being fried in case of shorting the "A" discharge or HIGH pulse. "A" and "C" are only supplying a high pulse in the first place, the resonance is between the C1 and the coils, not through the Mosfets. Regards Mike --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

ainachara	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #71 on: 2021-12-06, 13:18:28 »
Newbie Posts: 18 Freie Energie für alle	Quote from: Centraflow on 2021-12-06, 12:48:13 Use only one diode supplying to the 2 charge chokes. Use a diode from the drain of "A" and "C" before connecting to the TPU. This helps stop "C" from being fried in case of shorting the "A" discharge or HIGH pulse. "A" and "C" are only supplying a high pulse in the first place, the resonance is between the C1 and the coils, not through the Mosfets. Hi Mike, is that what you are describing here? D3 and D4 in the attached schematic? Or please make a schematic sketch. Tx Toni ------------------------ STEAP and the TPU STEAP TPU Modul 0 V3 delay line plus 06.12.2021.png (39.32 kB, 1065x775 - viewed 430 times.)

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #72 on: 2021-12-06, 14:46:12 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	Hi Toni No, attached is revision 2.9 As the input from A and C charge chokes is a pulse and no return is required, unlike a half-bridge, the diodes let through this pulse but do not allow, in the case of "C" mosfet, a short of the "A" pulse through that mosfet if the timing is not right. Regards Mike ------------------------ STEAP and the TPU STEAP stabilised 37cm 06122021.png (38.85 kB, 1495x1060 - viewed 332 times.) --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

Centraflow	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #73 on: 2021-12-06, 18:30:09 »
Group: Experimentalist Hero Member Posts: 2840	I thought I would strip this down to just the bare elements, so here it is. The voltage in C3 will rise, there is NO CONTROL in this schematic, so do not loop straight back until you have a control. Even if you are not looping, you must control the input voltage to the output voltage at C3. A minimum voltage is required at the input to create sufficient voltage across C1, an ionising voltage. Always have a high wattage resistor across C3 as the means of stabilising its charge voltage, eg. 33K @ 10w. The voltage here needs to match what you are putting in at the front to the charge chokes, it will not be the output voltage, that will be at least twice this voltage. Regards Mike ------------------------ STEAP and the TPU STEAP in depth of what appears to be happening.png (11.67 kB, 1495x1060 - viewed 323 times.) --------------------------- "All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed, second it is violently opposed, and third, it is accepted as self-evident." Arthur Schopenhauer, Philosopher, 1788-1860 As a general rule, the most successful person in life is the person that has the best information.

3D Magnetics	Re: STEAP and the TPU « Reply #74 on: 2021-12-06, 23:58:21 »
Group: Elite Experimentalist Sr. Member Posts: 331	Thanks for that link ,I had located that already and as far as i can see all is good . For the basics how about the cap values for the 3 4047's and the 40106's . I cant recall where i got them from in the first place but they are not in this thread yet. It may be that things are ok but i have a timing problem

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