OverUnity Research

Some members are requesting a lift on MileHigh's ban, so let's see where we stand with the members view point.

To be honest, if I was him, I would not come back.  It is a slap in the face.

Good point eaten maybe he doesnt

I vote to let him back.

The Romerouk threads might have been shorter or longer but his 2 cents would have given another angle to view.

Even without him the threads grew.

@Peterae,
The bottom line is how much server space can be afforded?

The best time to reconsider lifting a ban on someone, is if/when they themselves request to come back.

MileHigh was spiraling slightly out of control, and there is nothing better than a good quiet soak to reset one's benchmark. I speak from experience.

.99

Deep theres a box at the top you need to click yes and submit your vote otherwise it wont be counted.

Quote from: Peterae on 2011.07.16, 15:50:20
Some members are requesting a lift on MileHigh's ban, so let's see where we stand with the members view point.

I don't read all the posts so I don't know what can be the motivation for banning MH. May be I missed a particular post. But what I have read until now from MH, let me consider MH as a honnest and skilled contributor. He gives consistent technical arguments. He knows the physics bases. He makes neither obvious logical errors nor fallacious approximations. His explanations are straightforward and unlike many gullible or uneducated guys, he is able to rationally analyse a problem, without bias and without soumission to the way of thinking of the bigots of free energy (who really exist, as well as the bigots of academic science exist also).
The only reason I have seen until now for banning someone from a free energy forum, was to silence skeptics because they shake the faith of believers by pointing real flaws in so-called free energy devices. Then the believers react in the same manner as the muslims with the Muhammad's cartoons: "don't touch what we believe in". This is not acceptable, we deal with science, not with beliefs.
In any case, even if I didn't agree with MH, I would say with the philosophe Voltaire: "I don't agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it.". Free speech should be put above all and this should also apply here. Just my opinion.

I did not know MH was banned. 

I rather close my eyes on the overuse of freedom than having them opens and see someone's freedom get taken away.  Having said this, I neither vote yes or no.  Just stating how I feel.  However, it doesn't have to be totally released or totally banned.  There could be a partial way between, and improve from there. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5TCQjDfPwQ&feature=email&email=comment_received

MH posted this comment in a ytube of mine.
This is the sort of thing we need to be aware of. I take this as a personal attack because there is no encouragement but slander in my attempt here to show something. This is not the end device, it is a tool, a part of the magnetic process. Thats all. If it isn't resonance or quick flux switching then What?
No, I mean it really "What'? Has anybody demoed anything different? I ask again 'What?' Anyting else would be quite dangerous on the surburban desktop or come from a dark lab somewhere.

There are basically 3 types of comments the people make:
1: 'Interesting"
2: 'Try this example'
3: 'WTF. You dont know what you are doing. Let me tell you of your failures.'

MH has sent a #3. Was there any encouragement, any example? No. Only 'Sit at my feet and let me discertate to you. Shut up and I will tell you all that you don't know.'

God, I hope this guy wasn't ever a teacher or parent. Did he get my goat? Why yes he did. It is because he showed malice towards me for not asking or sitting at his feet. The final uncomplexitiy will be he says it has nothing to do with frequency of any kind.

@peterae,
Rescind my 'YES' vote. I do not want to be responsible or have anything to do with the attacks he places on other people in the future.
I voted with a compassionate heart towards the guy. But he has deemed himself a fool in demons clothing. Don't let this persist.

Or,

I get it, he is the necessary pit bull of the forums. The mechanic, the assassin, the bad cop, the bench bitch...

The gift of his knowledge is not worth the bite of his scorn.

QuoteI have stooped to his level. Forgive me.

Or,

Tell me of the possibilities and not of the laments of my ignorance.

And the coup de grace is:
I sent a pm to work with him. No response. Only public diatribe.

@All,
Look at the time he wasted garnering your attention and with no positive results. Is this what you want?
Read the Leon Dragone paper for more insight into magnetic properties instead.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/dragone/dragone.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/dragone/dragone.htm)


@MH,
I got OU. Yes, you read that correctly I have OU.
Rectically insert a stun gun and tell me what the 9vdc battery does to your colon.

I am not in a position to alter the votes that have been placed.

Quote from: giantkiller on 2011.07.17, 15:08:06

@MH,
I got OU. Yes, you read that correctly I have OU.
Rectically insert a stun gun and tell me what the 9vdc battery does to your colon.

Don't you mean 'OW!'. I hope you aren't talking about the one with the stepped particle accelerators. If it is the one I'm thinking of you may wish to edit your suggestion. You may be lowering yourself below the line a bit.

Per Wattsup's instruction:
After 2.5 hours total we get a few references to domain flipping and where to buy parts.

Quote(09:25:28) MileHigh: You want to set the record straight Giantkiler?
(09:27:50) MileHigh: My impression was that you 'ran away' from our converstaio​n so that's why I posted to get the message across since you ran away.
(09:29:30) MileHigh: it's ridiculous to take my posting as a personal attack or slander. The the fact is that resonance does not mean you amplify your power to destroy things with less energy. That's false
(09:30:42) giantkiller: SM stated 'Not bang on'. Can you expound on that?
(09:31:34) giantkiller: Can you explain to how magnetic resonance can be used as a tool to harness.
(09:32:01) giantkiller: Can you explain the transformer vibration in the TPUs?
(09:32:13) MileHigh: And I will repeat myself to EM: Your postings about being more knowledgibl​e than me about electronics are false and I challenge people to have the gusts to back me up with respect to that point
(09:32:42) giantkiller: Will please explain the low speed of the vibration when he is running at 5khz?
(09:33:28) MileHigh: I can't explain that without seeing all the material. I can explain generic transformer vibration.
(09:33:45) giantkiller: You see folks I asked simpled questions and when I pose as a unconquerab​le victim MH finds another. Viole!
(09:33:59) MileHigh: I haven't looked at the SM vids in years.
(09:35:14) giantkiller: Muller said 'Every magnet is a motor'. Expound on that please.
(09:35:23) MileHigh: Please clarify your last statement about the 'victim.'
(09:35:53) giantkiller: What does EM have to do with the questions I asked you?
(09:36:28) MileHigh: How about you expound first because that's a nonsensical statement as far as I am concerned.
(09:37:00) giantkiller: I am typing with LISA! God, I have duped!
(09:37:01) MileHigh: EM bragged that he knows more about electronics than me, a separate issue.
(09:38:32) MileHigh: You tell me how every magnets is a mortor, what are your insights? Thee is no relation GK, it's a Muller sales pitch pharase.
(09:38:45) giantkiller: Well prove to us in a postive way that you wish to corroborate
(09:39:53) MileHigh: You ask me to expound on what I view as a nonsensical statement, you go first please, how is a magnet a motor
(09:40:20) giantkiller: Then tell us how a magnet sticks forever to a metal sheet. Not what is the bonding mechanism but why or how is the length of atachment controlled
(09:41:24) giantkiller: Stop the banter and give a physics response
(09:41:26) MileHigh: Good question GK, and you and everone that plays with magnets should be able to answer that, don't you think that reasonable?
(09:42:04) giantkiller: I see. I was hoping for your take. I asked first.
(09:42:51) MileHigh: Okay so you are demanding an answer from me, but the answer is 'classical' and you shoudl not take SM or Muller's explanation before you understand the classical explanation​.
(09:43:17) giantkiller: I asked first. You switched the focus. Now I am demanding?
(09:43:58) giantkiller: What happened to you in your past that would deem this deflection of inclusion?
(09:44:14) MileHigh: There is an answer that you can look up and read up on and then understand. Are you interested in doing that or do you just gravatate towards 'alternativ​e' explanation​s?
(09:45:19) giantkiller: Shouts are lost
(09:45:46) MileHigh: 'deflection of inclusion' are you giving me some sort of a Litmus test where I have to be 'positive' to get back on? Like you only want to hear what you want to hear?
(09:46:09) MileHigh: you have to copy each one beore you hit the button
(09:46:10) giantkiller: Classical textbook responses. RTFM? Again I asked you.
(09:47:23) MileHigh: You want my answer for what makes magnetic attraction right now? For what purpose? I am not badgering you, seriously, for what purpose?
(09:47:50) giantkiller: Like you, I am looking for a chink in the armor. A necessary weakness with I can inflict seperation.
(09:49:26) giantkiller: You see the chat has not gone into what I asked. I am curious about magnets and there anomilous attraction. A perfection in the universe that we did not create but exists to be harnessed
(09:49:29) MileHigh: Anyway I can't crank out the formulas on the spot, but it has to do with the magnetic lines of force seeking out and being attracted to high permiabilit​y material.
(09:51:06) MileHigh: If everyone understood electronics and electromagn​etso on a grade 12 high school physics course level then things would be different around here
(09:52:44) giantkiller: So everyone is deficit? Don't tell us our ignorances. Tell us what yo want to perform.
(09:53:06) MileHigh: The attraction, not sure why you use the term 'anomalous' when it's all natural. If there was only something to harness there but magnets are as dead as a door nail. I don't think you will believe me though
(09:54:35) giantkiller: Why would you think you would not be believed? Have you given answer for thouight?
(09:54:56) MileHigh: perform? I know it's politically incorrect to say to people that if you work on a bench and play with coils and magnets you shoudl be at a grade 12 physics level. It's upsets the new wave new energy hippy vibe.
(09:56:02) giantkiller: I see. Another attack. Can you stay on track?
(09:56:58) giantkiller: 30 minutes have gone by. Have all viewers seen enough?
(09:57:14) MileHigh: I don't think you will believe me because you attribute some sort of 'mystical' qualities to coils and magnets. So you stick firm to your skewed frame of reference. That's fine but can you produce experiments to back up your beliefs. Then it gets hard.
(09:57:55) giantkiller: I see. Another attack. Can you stay with the subject at hand?
(09:58:27) giantkiller: What compells you to believe you would be believed?
(09:58:40) wattsup: The question for @MH should be - explain to me why you want to be on this forum instead of gong to a forum like impossibleO​U.com where you would obvioiusly be more at home, confortable and well received?
(09:58:40) giantkiller: not be believed
(09:58:59) MileHigh: Another attack? Get real, you have an 'alternativ​e' viewpoint and I was just calling it 'new wave new energy hippy.' It's like seeing 'classical' used in a perjorative sense. That's not going to kill you.
(09:59:36) giantkiller: My gift is to believe in the good of all. Have I made a grave error here?
(09:59:58) giantkiller: What leads you to believe I have a mystical view?
(10:00:31) giantkiller: There is something about OU that is a mystery else we would be done.
(10:00:43) giantkiller: Can you help the effort?
(10:00:47) MileHigh: GK, no matter what, I will not have my views approved or disapproved by you. You are not a fascist leader and I am not your conscript. You need to think long and hard about that.
(10:01:11) wattsup: That works both ways
(10:02:02) giantkiller: I am in an endevor to ask questions and receive answers. I do not judge you.
(10:02:29) MileHigh: Wattsup, looking at OU proposition​s is fun. You discovered what I predicted was done within the first day that I saw the Romero clips. Do you acknowledge that?
(10:03:30) MileHigh: GK, spotting crap and saying it is BS helps the effort. Surely you can see that.
(10:04:10) wattsup: The expection is that I proved it.
(10:04:17) giantkiller: I simply want to resonate to transformer​s close to self destruction to harness the sympathetic vibrations.
(10:04:22) giantkiller: Two
(10:05:01) MileHigh: Wattsup, yes that works both ways. But you have called me "useless" many times haven't you. You can't disallow stuff that you don't want to hear. Then you succumb to becoming a fascist.
(10:05:06) giantkiller: THis is not unheard of or impossible. And the device will vibrate. This is a TPU process.
(10:06:03) giantkiller: You see how short and to the point the answer was? We could have talked about this 45 miuntes ago.
(10:06:24) giantkiller: instead of clipboard and couch time
(10:06:43) MileHigh: Wattsup, I kew what I said was true with high confidence I don't need to go looking for wires. Like I said yesterday, there were logical tests to be made that should have been asked of Romero, none we asked and you are left with lemmings
(10:06:45) wattsup: I have to go - my wife wants to go shopping. Please someone copy this shoutout and post it on the question POLL thread.
(10:07:00) giantkiller: I just spilled the beans. Can you grasp the magnitude?
(10:07:26) giantkiller: You above all people should now have the design in your head.
(10:07:42) MileHigh: GK, do your measurments properly on your resonating transformer​s and you will get underunity.
(10:08:13) giantkiller: What is your understandi​ng of sympathetic vibrations?
(10:08:38) MileHigh: My understandi​ng is fairly high.
(10:09:15) giantkiller: It is a simple process. But there has to be a frequency to matter cohesion.
(10:09:18) MileHigh: If you have a point about sympathetic vibrations I would like to hear it.
(10:10:05) giantkiller: The correct frequencies to the target will achieve vibrations.
(10:10:18) MileHigh: What is frequency to matter cohesion? I have never heard that term, and never with respect to sympathetic vibrations
(10:10:35) giantkiller: The vibrations can be read to harness.
(10:10:53) giantkiller: The matchup of the source to destination​.
(10:11:03) MileHigh: okay can you expound on that? You are saying that there is a resonant frequency?
(10:11:13) giantkiller: yes.
(10:11:42) giantkiller: I know that I can apply that and get extra action.
(10:12:04) MileHigh: Okay so there is a resonant frequency, what does that do wrt your expewriment​s? Give you a high AC voltage?
(10:12:23) giantkiller: My efforts are a copper configurati​on with the correct input.
(10:12:41) MileHigh: You know tha you can apply that and get extra action - are you implying over unity?
(10:13:13) giantkiller: Depends on what the configurati​on responds with. But basically yes because the device is vibrating.
(10:13:46) giantkiller: If its moving it can be caught.
(10:14:29) MileHigh: Okay so here is the salient point - you believe that by exciting something at the resonant frequency you will achieve over unity - is that a fair statement?
(10:14:39) giantkiller: the correct combination is low power push into unstable excitation
(10:14:47) giantkiller: yes
(10:15:49) giantkiller: What else is there? what other process do you know of that excites matter into a dynamic state?
(10:15:53) MileHigh: Okay - we could have cut to the chase sooner on your side also. lol If you do a clip I am pretty sure your observation​s will be explainable​.
(10:17:02) giantkiller: I was never looking for classroom attendance. I was attracted to SVP. That is what my YT show.
(10:17:26) MileHigh: But there is a keypoint here GK - you believe that resonance will give you OU - tapping into ZPE or the ether, whatever - that's your 'programmin​g' GK, just like you say 'classicist​s' are 'programmed​.'
(10:18:28) MileHigh: My comments on your YT cannel were about yesterday's chat here and not your clip.
(10:19:13) giantkiller: I see. Again why the personnel modificatio​n effort? Can I just shake the shit out of something and get OU?
(10:19:30) MileHigh: Anyway GK, you can prove for yourself that resonance in your experiments does not give you OU - so you don't have to take my word for it.
(10:19:38) giantkiller: I have seen this throughout history. Now it is my turn.
(10:20:25) giantkiller: So you push yourself away from the table now that ample time has been consumed uselessly?
(10:20:54) MileHigh: Assuming you prove that, what's interesting is you will look with a critical eye at SM, magnacoaste​r, and a myriad of others that drop the term 'resonance' to advance their casue and sometimes line their pockets.
(10:21:44) giantkiller: I stayed focused on SVP. And let you ask questions. I received only personnel modificatio​n diatribe again.
(10:21:58) MileHigh: Helping you understand that resonance has it's limitations and is no OU is time well spent and a benefit to you.
(10:22:02) giantkiller: I have not sent money to the jesters.
(10:22:57) giantkiller: Resonance has no limitations with our boundaries of existance.
(10:23:05) giantkiller: within
(10:23:14) MileHigh: Wear a thicker skin GK, I don't have all the answers but some of the answers I have are like cod live oil, tastes bad but good for you
(10:24:43) MileHigh: GK, you cearly have a whole belief system wrt resonance, and it's simply wrong, there is nothing there. Your belief system is very wishful and blinds you when you look a FE proposition​s
(10:25:46) giantkiller: And back we come. What do you see as the process or entity we can tap?
(10:26:18) MileHigh: That might be hard to digest since every second solid state OU system is based on 'resonance' but what I say is true and you can prove it for yourself if you want to with study and experimenta​tion
(10:26:32) giantkiller: What would vibrate a closed loop device?
(10:27:30) giantkiller: Why would it be hard to digest? What is lacking in all of us that would not let us comprehend such a grand thing?
(10:27:33) MileHigh: I don't know what we can tap beyond the obvious ones GK, but a new source of energy may come around you never know. They can mine the moon to get energy for example.
(10:28:11) giantkiller: Tesla spoke of resonance. He showed the world the power of it.
(10:28:26) MileHigh: I don't know what would vibrate a closed loop device - is that a reference to an SM video?
(10:28:42) MileHigh: GK, you cearly have a whole belief system wrt resonance, and it's simply wrong, there is nothing there. Your belief system is very wishful and blinds you when you look a FE proposition​s
(10:29:18) giantkiller: Shake matter at the correct speed and it stores energy.
(10:29:26) MileHigh: GK, lke I said, you have a belief system built up around resonance. Resonance is not a potential source of energy, it's just a way to store energy.
(10:30:14) giantkiller: what properties are in FE that would do what we are looking for?
(10:30:28) MileHigh: Indeed shake and store and extract - shake again and repreat process - no free energy there. I can't believe how 'hard coded' this is in your thought processes.
(10:31:39) MileHigh: GK, you have to have FE first to talk about it's properties.
(10:31:47) giantkiller: Ok what do we do to the magnetic domains to make a usefull tool?
(10:32:30) giantkiller: From what I have seen and done is to alter the direction in unison quickly.
(10:33:09) giantkiller: ibrb
(10:33:52) MileHigh: There is a multi-billi​on dollar industry based on using magnetic domains as a useful tool. So there answer is alredy there in a sense. I am not being facetious, go to Digi-Key...​.
(10:35:32) MileHigh: "From what I have seen and done is to alter the direction in unison quickly." - indeed but here is where you have to have a mastery of grade 12 physics to 'see' call it 'electronic​s spice.' Your question is almost moot and self-eviden​t.
(10:41:24) MileHigh: So you admit that you got duped EM, at least that's progress.
(10:43:25) MileHigh: I reverse-eng​inered Romero's fake crap in my head, I did not need to see the wires.
(10:43:52) giantkiller: Well I guess my turn is done. Next victim please...
(10:44:32) MileHigh: You have to stop that GK, I am just being real.
(10:45:12) MileHigh: Stop crying like a baby, you are a fully grown man.
(10:47:49) MileHigh: Magnetic domains flip and release their stored energy that can be captured with a pick-up coil - BFD - somebody put the energy into the domains firsft - No OU, just COE. Everything to do with magnetic domains and pick-up coils is COE and can be proven on a bench
(10:49:21) giantkiller: I understand.
(10:49:53) MileHigh: Same thing for resonance, it's all COE and can be verified with measurement​s. Please try to do research - your see resonance and an 'OU light bulb' goes off in your head. You are astray and will remain astray if you always think like that. More cod liver oil.
(10:51:03) MileHigh: You should undestand because in your YT favourites you have tins of clips that give you the real deal, teach you the truth about magnetic interaction​s.
(10:52:02) giantkiller: The MEG does flip domains.
(10:53:00) MileHigh: It seems to me that your favourite YT clips are just the 'classicist' viewpoint when you want to 'amuse' yourself perhaps? Just like poor Rosemary would make reference to hard science as 'amusing' because she thought she knew better
(10:53:14) giantkiller: by cancelling the flux we flip doamins also.
(10:54:32) giantkiller: I didn't know I was doing anything wrong or incorrect. Those posts are just storage for myself.
(10:54:59) MileHigh: Yes the MEG flips domains. Every transformer flips domains so the entire society we live in is powewred by flipping domains.
(10:56:20) giantkiller: The 60hz grid doesnt flip fast enough to suite Tesla.
(10:56:20) MileHigh: Not saying you did anything incorrect that's not my place but you are asking questions that are answered in detail in your own favourite YT clips, that's my point.
(10:56:57) giantkiller: It has nothing to do with favorites.
(10:57:33) giantkiller: I return to those clips and review all the time.
(10:57:39) MileHigh: "The 60hz grid doesnt flip fast enough to suite Tesla." Interesting statement and revealing. Why do aircraft use400 Hz AC instead of 60 Hz AC?
(10:58:43) MileHigh: The answer is because you can get more power throughput in the same sized transformer at 400 Hz vs. 60 Hz.
(10:59:30) MileHigh: Yes the MEG flips domains. Every transformer flips domains so the entire society we live in is powewred by flipping domains.
(10:59:48) MileHigh: So you can reduce weight using400 Hz AC on a plane. But that has no real connection to Tesla's very vague statement.
(11:00:04) giantkiller: To eliminate interaction with the 60hz and to raise the kinetic base of power usage.
(11:00:54) giantkiller: Well what if the domain flipping was in league with the storage of a coil?
(11:01:58) MileHigh: I don't know what you mean by "kinetic base." Many times you use your own language and terms unto yourself.
(11:01:58) giantkiller: like a resonant level of operation. Then you could the kinetic with the sympathetic​?
(11:02:55) giantkiller: Kinetic base: the amout of activity in a certain time or usage frame.
(11:03:19) giantkiller: Kinetic base: the amout of activity in a certain time or usage frame.
(11:03:50) MileHigh: GK, your language is very vague and open to lots of intrepretat​ion.
(11:05:09) MileHigh: I suggest that you try experiments because you areoff in la la land with your terminology so perhaps a physical test on the bench would be better.
(11:05:48) giantkiller: the domain flipping happens at the end of every cycle distance.
(11:06:20) giantkiller: raise the frequency and that distance shortens.
(11:07:16) giantkiller: Sorry off on a tangent
(11:07:22) MileHigh: No one uses the term "kinetic base" when talking electronics​, magnetics, power, energy, etc. You isolate yourself when you do that. You may think that you are 'open minded' and iviting people 'in' to your ideas but the opposite actually takes place.
(11:07:22) giantkiller: ibrb
(11:10:36) MileHigh: For all, just repeating myself here, quoting EM, "Not only was he going up against somebody who knows more than him in that particular area of knowledge, which he did not expect"

Quote
(11:23:26) MileHigh: If I am misundersta​ning you then I take it back.
(11:23:41) giantkiller: I see. I was refering to the negative diatribe and not you. I bid adue.
(11:24:28) MileHigh: Your aversion to all negative talk is is too much GK, get real!
(11:25:39) MileHigh: I can read the poll thread and I will repeat your comments where you claim you know more than me about electronics are false and if you had integrity you would edit your postings
(11:27:55) MileHigh: "exposed his ignorance about amp meters and electronics in general." This is a garbage statement by you where you are trying to prop yourself up. Repeat: I know way more than you and I am quite decent wrt electrionic​s. Get real.
(11:28:19) giantkiller: MH, your insecuritie​s are showing. Who cares who said what. Just do OU and not the rest of us.
(11:29:25) MileHigh: No GK, you are just trying to play the passive teddy bear. Some things are worth standing up for, and my integrity is worth standing up for.
(11:29:45) giantkiller: Who the hell beat you as a child that now you mimic the opportunity to repeat?
(11:30:25) MileHigh: EM want to step on me to prop himself up and it's fake and it's not happening.
(11:30:42) giantkiller: Just tell someone what they are missing to progress forward and stop the pontificati​on. Nobody cares.
(11:30:56) MileHigh: GK, that's just you playing the soft teddy bear again.
(11:31:51) giantkiller: You sir are a lonely wounded warrior. I truly pity your enterprise.
(11:32:28) giantkiller: The soft teddy is action of compassion. Have you had none shown to you?
(11:32:52) MileHigh: GK, you can have your oiwn set of values where 'everything is cool all the time.' Or at least you want to create that appearance. But when i challenge you your first reaction is to ben me. Kind of contradicto​ry, don't you think? You can't have it both ways.
(11:33:04) MileHigh: to ban me
(11:33:50) giantkiller: It is now documented for all to see.
(11:34:27) giantkiller: What is wrong with things being ok or cool?
(11:34:54) MileHigh: Giantkiller​, will you stop the "i truly pity you" bullshit? You are so passive agressive. You are not youself, you are playing a game where you are projecting what you think you shoudl be. I am 100 times mroe real than you. So fo with the "i pity you" crap. Do we understand wach other?
(11:35:42) giantkiller: if someone is missong a fact are they to be considered dead meat? get a beating? put to shame? What reflects to you in the mirror?
(11:36:05) MileHigh: EM is trying to step on me in some postings and what he is saying is a loi about me and a lie about himslef. Do you get that?
(11:36:15) MileHigh: is a like
(11:36:19) MileHigh: oop is a lie
(11:37:21) giantkiller: History tells all. You once told me the Tesla didn't know what he was talking about.
(11:37:43) MileHigh: The truth is what counts wether it be an experiment or some technical discussions or discussing someone's character and abilities. And that's real GK, not fluffy bubbies where everything is comfortably numb.
(11:38:08) MileHigh: is a lie
(11:38:37) EMdevices: I posted stuff and it's now showing up, what's happening here?
(11:38:54) MileHigh: GK, yes you are probably a big Tesla fan so that stetement was sacrilidge for sure. I can't remember the context or the specifics so it's kind of moot.
(11:39:45) EMdevices: test 1 2 3
(11:39:52) EMdevices: ok, when you guys don't post I can post
(11:40:03) EMdevices: hold on a second let me address MH
(11:40:03) MileHigh: you have to copy every statement beforer you hit the shout button and paste it back if required
(11:40:18) EMdevices: oh, didn't know that
(11:41:37) EMdevices: MH, I will gladly edit my post if you admit that you were confused about how the analog ampmenter worked, even WW corrected you.
(11:41:59) EMdevices: and I do not prop myself up on you, but on my education and experience
(11:42:16) EMdevices: If you feel that you know more than me, good for you.
(11:43:17) EMdevices: and congratulat​ions on sticking to your instincts about the romerouk videos, good for you.
(11:43:42) EMdevices: you were right and I was wrong
(11:43:57) MileHigh: That's ridiculous EM. I don't know all the nuances with resoect to analog multimeters except to say that if attack is much faster than decay I am thinking an analog multimter can give incorrect readings with a specific excitation subject to conformatio​n on the bench.
(11:45:21) Peterae: the chat works well and shout drops a lot
(11:46:03) MileHigh: You created enough noise to get me banned and you wrong the whole time and I was right the whole time. Your emails are a perfect gentlemanly Dr. Jecky character and your posting behaviiour was a crazy mad Mr. Hyde character. I can see right through you
(11:48:01) Peterae: name calling just creates anger and then a shouting match starts, there just no need for name calling
(11:48:15) EMdevices: how do I get to the chat?
(11:48:22) MileHigh: As far as I am concerned you are a poseur EM, and if that's what you want to do I can't stop you. But you will not bullshit about my qualificati​ons.
(11:48:26) EMdevices: never mind
(11:48:27) Peterae: click the chat button is it up top
(11:49:25) MileHigh: Yes Peter but everything in moderation. This is not a grade one class, we are all adults.
(11:50:43) Peterae: MH is the link not there
(11:50:50) Peterae: for chat
(11:50:59) Peterae: http://www.​overunityres​earch.com/ch​at/index.php

Well to everyones happiness i have given back MH his posting rights.

May the force be with you  :D

I also did not know MH had been banned.  Are people perhaps getting a little too sensitive? 

I've always thought MH says it as he sees it, just as I tend to do - an affliction some of us struggle with that does not often make us flavour of the month or endear us to folk. Let's be honest, it's quite difficult to tell someone 'politely, that they are talking utter nonsense. Furthermore, perceived rudeness can simply come down to sheer frustration at times - I know it does with me. If people post nonsense and then get offended when someone slams their post, who's fault is that?

However, I also think MH talks a lot of sense and contributes much to the forum. Personally I've always thought he championed the cause for commonsense, rational thinking and logic, which all serve to keep things well-grounded.  And let's face it, without a little grounding from time to time, some of us would be well away with the Faeries! Remember IST!

Can we ban GK instead, as I never understand any of his posts!  ;)

Quote from: Farrah Day on 2011.07.17, 23:36:27
I also did not know MH had been banned.  Are people perhaps getting a little too sensitive? 
....
Can we ban GK instead, as I never understand any of his posts!  ;)

LOL. Actually I agree with Farrah Day (not about the banning part). Most of what GK or Grumpy writes are way over my head; maybe I'm just a dumb ass but then I didn't see any real TPU's surfaced all these years either; even after all these smart people were teaching us what really is in the TPU and what principles they knew.

cheers
chrisC

Understand this minions...

I communicate with those who have a good idea of what is going on. If you can pull your noses out of the status quo text books and read some advanced papers and works you would not be posting minimal diatribe, arguing, or standard theory.
You should ask yourself what are they talking about? And research it. Maybe you should research why frequency equals matter.

Read Dale Ponds sympathetic vibratory physics, Laviolette's book on Pulsars, Russell's works, Keely's works. There is so much more published that can take you farther than you every thought possible. You haven't read enough but argued and stomped a plenty.

Measure this:
What is the ratio of teaching posts to condemning posts that any of you have? Are you here to teach and learn or to judge with condemnation?

Get a clue instead of a club, ape brain.

Quote from: Peterae on 2011.07.17, 19:43:04
May the force be with you  :D

Are you sure the correct word is 'force'?

Quote
Can we ban GK instead, as I never understand any of his posts!  ;)

Jests or not I have the sinking feeling some should prepare to limit their posts to garden variety electrodynamics while using only commonly accepted and published terminology.

Of course, this means that well accepted theories and practices used in plasma and astrophysics will be questionable... unless you are willing to cite your sources or build a satellite launch pad in your back yard.

Since recent history shows that very few of us actually understood Prof. Lewin's (of MIT) demonstration of non-conservative fields, I'll be writing my future posts in a separate program for pre-screening.


BTW: I believe EMDevices mentioned that this experiment is not special or unique. It isn't. You should see some flavor of it in most middle to upper-level electrodynamics courses.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011.07.18, 01:24:57
Since recent history shows that very few of us actually understood Prof. Lewin's (of MIT) demonstration of non-conservative fields, I'll be writing my future posts in a separate program for pre-screening.

BTW: I believe EMDevices mentioned that this experiment is not special or unique. It isn't. You should see some flavor of it in most middle to upper-level electrodynamics courses.

No one here nor in the numerous papers has yet explained it, which leaves me to believe that no one here (except myself perhaps) truly understands it. But this is off-topic and related to another thread which will be updated with the missing explanation in the near future.

.99

Quote from: giantkiller on 2011.07.18, 00:47:39
Understand this minions...

...

Measure this:
What is the ratio of teaching posts to condemning posts that any of you have? Are you here to teach and learn or to judge with condemnation?

Get a clue instead of a club, ape brain.

Hold your horses GK. I was just responding to Farrah Day's comment and my own personal observation. No one is judging you.  Fact that you have not produced a TPU despite all your famed research pretty much sums it up. Don't be so hard on yourself.

cheers
chrisC

I am looking forward to your explanation.  :)

The problem as I see it is this: Who can you really trust to really know what they are talking about? 

If you are uneducated, naive and gullible, then you're effectively so far down the food chain of knowledge, that the answer tends to be, pretty well everyone. If you have a reasonably good education in science, electronics and maths, then the answer is more likely to be, not many or no-one.

The fact is that none of us really know who here - if any - has the credentials to really qualify what they say or post.  Are we conversing with someone who knows their stuff, or a convincing wannabe spouting utter clap-trap?  Remember how many people used to praise IST, thinking he was some kind of genius!!  :o

I have a reasonable education and hence can to some degree usually follow most things that are posted. However, I often see posts that seem to have no basis in science fact, and hence on which I have no grasp whatsoever. I do not think that it is necessarily because the science is beyond me, but rather because there seems to be no tangible, grounded science to relate to.

It's all very well people going off on extreme tangents, and talking about all manner of science that we are not taught in school, but where then is the foundation from which this alternate science is built upon.  For it to be credible, this, let's call it, 'non-mainstream science' surely has to have been reached initially from a firm footing and a series of building blocks, otherwise how can it be taken seriously.

Likewise if you read only literature on this non-mainstream science, but have no background in traditional - or classical - science, then how are you differentiating between the two?

It does get rather complicated.

Reply to initial post:
I read through the descriptive quote MH had attributed to him down the thread page, and I didn't think he was any worse than, say, Wilbyinebriated on the OU.com board.  If "Wilby..." appears on my Bench and verbally splits hairs to try and piss me off, I will get pissed!  The same for the Nazi-lover, Dr. Nowak, a/k/a "Dr. No."

I would have voted "Undecided" or "Abstain" if the alternative would have been presented.

--Lee

Quote
MH posted this comment in a ytube of mine.
...
There are basically 3 types of comments the people make:
1: 'Interesting"
2: 'Try this example'
3: 'WTF. You dont know what you are doing. Let me tell you of your failures.'

MH has sent a #3. Was there any encouragement, any example? No.
...

This is really terrible!  ;D ;D ;D
Someone left a comment on youtube that the video's author made failures, and didn't encourage him in something that he considered failures, and it should be a reason for justifying his ban here?!

We clearly drift toward a stalinist trial where the defendant is judged on mere intent and cannot even participate!

"A Confederacy of Dunces"
"When a true genius appears in the world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Confederacy_of_Dunces
This is true not only with dunces against genius but also with unskilled people against skilled people.

Couldn't agree more Exn.

I refer again to the infamous IST. He was supported and indeed encouraged by a great number of uneducated retards who blindly stood against anyone that saw him for the complete and utter idiot he was.  The point is, how can anyone with half a brain really encourage someone like IST who spouts nothing but continuous, unintelligible nonsense. 

Bearing this in mind, I'm all for anyone highlighting the inadequacies and failures of folk who too easily discard science as we understand as though it's beneath them.

Cock-eyed theories and wild conjecture are abundant on the various forums and indeed such as youtube, but in truth very few are supported by any real science or have any firm grounding in the real world.

Quote from: Farrah Day on 2011.07.18, 15:15:45
The problem as I see it is this: Who can you really trust to really know what they are talking about?  

If you are uneducated, naive and gullible, then you're effectively so far down the food chain of knowledge, that the answer tends to be, pretty well everyone. If you have a reasonably good education in science, electronics and maths, then the answer is more likely to be, not many or no-one.

The fact is that none of us really know who here - if any - has the credentials to really qualify what they say or post.  Are we conversing with someone who knows their stuff, or a convincing wannabe spouting utter clap-trap?  Remember how many people used to praise IST, thinking he was some kind of genius!!  :o

I have a reasonable education and hence can to some degree usually follow most things that are posted. However, I often see posts that seem to have no basis in science fact, and hence on which I have no grasp whatsoever. I do not think that it is necessarily because the science is beyond me, but rather because there seems to be no tangible, grounded science to relate to.

It's all very well people going off on extreme tangents, and talking about all manner of science that we are not taught in school, but where then is the foundation from which this alternate science is built upon.  For it to be credible, this, let's call it, 'non-mainstream science' surely has to have been reached initially from a firm footing and a series of building blocks, otherwise how can it be taken seriously.

I share this viewpoint, it is good common sense.

Quote
Likewise if you read only literature on this non-mainstream science, but have no background in traditional - or classical - science, then how are you differentiating between the two?

It does get rather complicated.

Imho there is a way for answering this question.

Science is not only knowledge. It is also a methodology. "Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of inquiry must be based on gathering empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning".

A video, even with measurements, commented with a verbosity that sounds like science and concluded by "I get OU", is not science.
One must provide all technical details in order the experiment to be reproducible and one must present the logical reasoning that explains the functioning. The reasoning must include the method (in general, equations) to calculate quantitative results allowing to verify that the theory fits the experimental measurements and the observations.
When the theory fits quantitatively the experimental results and is able to predict, we can be sure we get science.

It must be emphasized that even if experimenters do not provide theoretical explanations about their experiments, nevertheless they make a real step toward science if they are able to let duplicate their anomalous results by others. In this case they present indubitable new facts that call for new theories and/or re-interpretation of old ones. This is real science. Rossi's e-cat is probably of this kind.

Non-mainstream science is still science only if it obeys scientific method, otherwise it is incantation and magic. Therefore we see that "non-mainstream science" about OU is not yet science because no one has a FE machine that works, attested by third parties and built according to a "non-mainstream science", in spite of many such theories (moreover often incompatible with one another).

QuoteScience is not only knowledge. It is also a methodology. "Scientific method refers to a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. To be termed scientific, a method of
inquiry must be based on gathering empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning".

Agreed.  And indeed I see a total lack of this all the time.  In my main area of interest you would be amazed by the amount of people claiming to get over-Faraday results from simple electrolysers.  It is also, almost without exception, always the people with no background in science or technology that are making these claims.

For the record, I was in chat with Giantkiller and we were talking about resonance.  He was stating that resonance is definitely an OU phenomenon.  I stated that wasn't the case and then he disappeared.  I assumed that he was "running away" and putting his head in the sand before I could make more points.

Here is what I posted on his YouTube clip:

Quote"it looks like giant left - there you have it, he didn't quite understand so the path of least resistance is to ignore what I said and keep his same train of thought"

There is the problem right there Giant. You have been believing for years that resonance gives you some sort of "amplification" so you blow up devices with less energy.

Nothing could be further from the truth but you don't want to learn. It's too upsetting to you to hear this because it's counter to your thought processes.

2nd: So perhaps you want to continue experimenting with resonance and you are excited by what you believe are some "magic attributes" that it has that can result in some form of amplification such that you can "blow up" things with less energy. I am telling you that's not the case and that's upsetting to you because it upsets the whole apple cart behind your thought processes and planned experiments.

So you run away and don't want hear and more importantly learn. Very sad.

3rd: And I suspect that you were trying to make a similar argument about an atom bomb and how much energy it takes to trigger one. I don't get that at all. There is no relationship between an atom bomb and any kind of resonance or amplification we were talking about. I can only suspect you are applying similar theories to the atom bomb example. There is no parallel that I can discern. The energy dynamics of an atom bomb have nothing to do with resonance or amplification.

I don't know what this "resonance fetish" is but I suspect it comes from the free energy pulp press.  I get the impression that Giantkiller is a big fan of the free energy pulp press because he makes references to it all the time and perhaps he has read relatively little mainstream scientific literature about electronics and resonance phenomena.  If this is true it can be argued that Giantkiller's mind has been corrupted by what is mostly unscientific junk written to sell books and make money and not much more than that.  Think Tom Bearden.  If it upsets some people when I refer to Tom Bearden's writings and other related prose as "unscientific junk" I am sorry, but that's my opinion.

The "resonance fetish" is pervasive.  Look at all of the testing that was and is being done for the Romerouk builds related to resonance and the myriad of wild and unfounded speculations that are fueling it.  The frustrated replicators are in the "try anything" phase and "resonance" is a big part of that.

Anyway, Giantkiller seems to have lost his soft teddy-bear tone with respect to me:

QuoteRectically insert a stun gun and tell me what the 9vdc battery does to your colon.

Anyway, in my opinion no one will ever convince Giantkiller that resonance is not an OU phenomenon.  He sees that resonance can "blow things up" with "very little energy" and that's all he sees and he thinks that the pulp press is right and he is right.  Apparently he has been working on TPU stuff on the bench for years.

The fact that he seemingly can't understand that the device that you "blew up" with "very little energy" was absorbing and storing the energy that you put into it over a certain period of time such that it is all a COE phenomenon is something that I am not really going to worry about.   There will probably be at least a dozen postings on the forums today that make fantastical speculations about resonance.  I give up, it's a "force of Nature" around here that just won't quit.

MileHigh

Personally MH, as I've already stated here, I think that you are quite invaluable in keeping things grounded.

From my experiences on various forums, many of the posters appear to have very little interest in real science and indeed learning about it.  In many cases, when it comes to the crunch, the science and maths involved simply gets too complicated for them, especially if they have no background in it, so it's far easier just to ignore. In other cases, as you have alluded to, some people don't want real science to get in the way of their dreams - or their dellusions. In both cases you are often continually banging your head against a brick wall.

I liken it to trying to have a rational conversation about formation of the universe with a deeply religious person... it's impossible, you can't!

Clean up on aisle 5...

What we can come away with is the predominant process is based on
Domain flipping. This was the only clue that was given.

Thank you for the forceful conclusion.

I have builds that operate on resonance and domain flipping.
I can conclude from the amount of character defamation and anti-resonance
focus that was given is that resononce is a key ingredient.  I see no other
offerings.

If resonance is not then alot of fustration has been the posed.

I take it that some are in a hurry here to see this OU thing done by others efforts.

While i have not posted a finished product it has been mentioned to me from a large audience of how close or keep going terms said to me. I know my efforts are close and i thank all who have made those comments.

Regardless of the post attitudes by others i deem all responses as important.

The larger question is why the effort towards finding a person to do the OU bidding and not effort to simply advertise a solution for publication? Publication sure would stop all the mystical pontification and flaming.

Are there those who want control yet are not in a position to advertise? This i have knowledge of.

I thank all here for the insight. I continue on despite the complexities of all to endure.

Resonance is just a means to work something small into something big, but there is no mechanism for OU there.  You will always get out a little less than you put in.  Anyone purporting resonant effects as OU is full of shit.

Domain flipping: what does that have to do with anything?

If you want electricity, you have to separate the positive and negative charges.  The drift of the opposite particles in opposite directions is what constitutes an electric current.  If you use a magnetic field, then the current is always equal and opposite, so there can be no anomolous gain from conventional magnetic induction.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2011.07.19, 14:45:03
Resonance is just a means to work something small into something big, but there is no mechanism for OU there.  You will always get out a little less than you put in.  Anyone purporting resonant effects as OU is full of shit.

Domain flipping: what does that have to do with anything?

If you want electricity, you have to separate the positive and negative charges.  The drift of the opposite particles in opposite directions is what constitutes an electric current.  If you use a magnetic field, then the current is always equal and opposite, so there can be no anomolous gain from conventional magnetic induction.

Quote(10:59:30) MileHigh: Yes the MEG flips domains. Every transformer flips domains so the entire society we live in is powewred by flipping domains.
(10:59:48) MileHigh: So you can reduce weight using400 Hz AC on a plane. But that has no real connection to Tesla's very vague statement.

The only other facet that is in the list and mentioned by Grumpy is 'Scalar' which I have multiple setups for this too.

Quote from: Farrah Day on 2011.07.19, 12:59:47
...

I liken it to trying to have a rational conversation about formation of the
universe with a deeply religious person... it's impossible, you can't!

When people engage in "conversation" with the intent of converting
beliefs, rationality flies the coop.

We often have an emotional attachment to our beliefs which prevents
us from seriously considering alternatives.

Emotional dogmatism is too often expressed as "real science."

It is possible to correct error without entering into the realm of badmouth.

Chinese proverb: "The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it."

Realization is the next freefall step outside of dogma.

There is no OU in resonance.  Resonance cannot create energy, or free it from some unknown source.

Step back for a while and take a good hard look at what an electric current is, and then explore what is required to create it.

Why does a moving magnet induce current in a coil?

Why does a charged object induce an opposite charge in another object?

Resonance and OverUnity




My thesis for this short write up is the following:    

WE WILL NEVER ACHIVE OVERUNITY, BUT THAT'S OK, WE HAVE RESONANCE!


For those that don't know me well, my thesis is a bit "tong-in-check".    Before we discuss Resonance, it is beneficial to discuss this notion of "Overunity", and to make sure we agree on its definition.  

Let's begin with a general notion of Overunity, and what it means to some.   A statement that most people would probably agree to is the following:   "if I get more out than I put in, I must have overunity."   Some think in terms of power flow as:     Pout/Pin > 1   must mean overunity, others in terms of energy Eout/Ein > 1 means overunity (this is more correct ).     However, there is a shortcoming in both of these definitions because the duration of time is not clearly specified.    


Give Me More Time

A good example that illustrates this shortcoming is a battery that powers a light bulb.   Power flows out of the battery and no power flows into it, at the same time, so this qualifies as an overunity device because Pout>Pin, where Pin=0  or if this experiment runs for let's say 1 second, that Eout>Ein as well.     So obviously there is a need to consider the time history of an experiment and specify the time domain over which we make a determination of overunity.   An obvious time domain for many theoretical studies is the infinite time domain (–INF < t < +INF),   and I chuckle a bit at this definition when I see it, as it's obviously never going to be implemented properly in the true sense of the word, because our days are numbered and short compared to INFINITY, or all time if time ever had a beginning or it's ever going to have an end.   However, from a practical point of view, an "infinite" time span can be 1 microsecond and be 99.999999999% accurate compared to an integration over true "infinity", because if the waveform we are integrating rises from zero and decays back to zero during this time, and outside of these limits it stays at a zero value "forever" we don't need to worry about the outer bounds (we hope and assume.)

What Are You Hiding

In case you are wondering where I am heading with this, you need not wait any longer.  It's the concept of energy storage!  Yes most of us know that energy can be stored in batteries as chemical energy, in springs as elastic potential energy, in velocity as in kinetic energy of a rotor perhaps, or in a gravitational potential by lifting a weight to some height from which it can drop and deliver energy.      If we don't keep energy storage in mind we can be fooled into thinking we might have overunity.  The list of energy storage mechanisms I listed is just a small list that is well known (I hope) but if we are sincere with ourselves we should have the common sense to realize that there are processes out there that we don't fully understand or even partially, and which could come into play in our experiments.   Seeing excess energy out of an experiment should not induce us to quickly believe we have overunity, unless we are absolutely certain that we have ruled out all forms of energy storage.   This will NEVER be possible in our short life spans, not with 100% certainty at least.   What most likely could come out of this is a discovery of a new form of energy storage, or perhaps a flow of energy previously undiscovered, which leads me to the next discussion.


Send Me Some Energy

Energy flows are everywhere around us.  The sun sends its warm rays upon the earth and supports life in various ways.  Water is evaporated and condenses and we obtain clouds and rain and the rivers carry this water down to the oceans and lakes and the process repeats.  There are also thermal differences in the air and ocean waters and these cause movement and convection to occur and some build windmills to try and capture some of this "free" energy.   So a good point to make at this time is the fact that we need to consider the SYSTEM.   If we let our system be the wind mill, than it appears we have an overunity device, but we know better than that.  We need to expand our system to as large a sphere as possible, but once again we are finite people on a little speck of dust in this huge universe.  There is a slim chance we will comprehend in our lifetimes the immense universe to a level of rigor required for wagering ones hard earned career credentials on backing up this notion of overunity.  So humbly we have to come to the conclusion and determination that we can not claim overunity, because there is too much unknown, and not enough known!


Conservation of Foolishness

Some people are endowed with a certain amount of foolishness which can neither be created nor destroyed.   All jokes aside, we know full well the statement of conservation of energy.  At present it seems to stand on a firm scientific footing and it's unlikely it will be toppled, and we should be quite happy about this.  If there were a mechanism in nature that created energy we could overheat and perish or if there was a mechanism that consumed energy, than we could cool off and freeze to death. Energy just changes from one form to another; it has many faces and aspects, and there are HUGE amounts of energy all around us.   Some of you might be thinking about ZPE, but to tell you the truth I chuckle at this new notion of ZERO POINT ENERGY, and the long formulas and deep theoretical efforts to prove it.   I took thermodynamics long ago, and it's no secret that the ambient temperature around us represents Mega Joules of energy per cubed what ever,  inch^3, cm^3, you name it.  We don't have to go into fancy math to prove there is energy at zero Kelvin, most of us will never even live one microsecond under those conditions.  What we have is a condition of bathing in energy every day of our lives.   The problem is how do I use this energy, or can I use it?   What is needed is a temperature difference which creates a flow of energy, and that we can tap.  (I'll skip a discussion of entropy and the quality of energy)

Energy Reception

To capture energy that flows, or more appropriately convert it to something we can handle and direct at will, depends on the nature of the flow and it's behavior over time.  If we have a constant flow of water, like a river, than we'll use different methods than if it's alternating, like the waves in the ocean.   These alternating flows of energy need to be handled differently, and this is where RESONANCE comes into play.   Resonance allows us to flow a small quantity into a large quantity, at the correct time when the large quantity will not oppose the small quantity.   It is all about timing and the interplay between energy storage and energy flows.     Let me bring this discussion to something more concrete so we don't drift off into a philosophical cloud.   Let's consider Radio Waves and their reception.


WTF ... Over

Since Tesla and Marconi, demonstrated wireless communications (let's not forget Hertz who proved Maxwell's theoretical deductions), we have not been able to get rid of these manmade electromagnetic disturbances.  (that's right I want them GONE Turned OFF!  lol)    Most  AM radios used a tuned inductor (by adding a capacitor) and this raises the voltage at the coil terminals from that which can simply be induced magnetically acording to the formula V = -N d PHI/dt.  The tuned coil terminal voltage (not loaded), over the unturned level, is a ratio known as "Q"  or quality.  The higher the Q, the higher the tuned voltage, and the more power is received and "funneled" into our receiver.   I will not make an attempt to prove this to you as it's more involved than you might care for, but basically the magnetic and electric fields that resonate around the antenna (due to tuning) interacts with the radio waves and their magnetic and electric field vectors.  This interaction is very similar to POSITIVE current flow into a POSITIVE voltage, which means power is delivered to the voltage producing device.    To further illustrate, imagine with me a series of (+) and (-) charges spaced evenly, that move towards the right, perhaps small pellets of metal fired in sequence from a gun and charged appropriately.   Obviously, the net flow of charge is zero, but does this mean that power flow is zero?    The answer is NO.   I can place a controllable voltage source at the receiving end that creates an alternating voltage field to intercept these charges.   It will have a (+) voltage when the (+) charges arrive and a (-) voltage when the (-) charges arrive.   I will thus be able to extract lots of energy from this seemingly NEUTRAL stream of charges.   As each pellet arrives and imparts it's energy the voltage will get stronger and stronger, and build up to a high level, such that all the energy of the pellets will be dissipated, than we will have a perfect reception of energy.     What I just described is a type of "RADIO" operation based on charges and not RADIO WAVES, just to illustrate the point.   A number of other phenomena can be used, like acoustic energy flows etc..      Resonance is quite important but not overunity per se.    


Conclusion

What Conclusion? , this ain't over! I don't know what I'm talking about but it sure feels good to say it.  I never knew the feeling, thanks MH.  If this has helped anybody in any way, send $10 to the GK to help him keep RESONATING away.  Who knows he might down another UFO out of the sky and humanity will undergo "another" discontinuous jump in knowledge.  And who knows, maybe even RomeroUK will benefit from this and will undergo a type of spiritual renewal and confess his sins with tears and penance, and a NEW BUILD!      LOL    Life is short, so RESONATE!


Dr Jackl  (or is it Hyde?)


PS.  I reserve the right to expand and contract my SYSTEM definiton at will,  if I don't like you I'll expand it and tell you how WRONG and DELUDED you are,  but if I like you I'll shrink it and congratulate you on your achivements!    LOL

I think achieving OU requires a different persepctive.  Rather than look for new energy sources that don't exist, look for a better way to convert the energy that we do have into the forms that we need.

When you put a magnet inside a coil and it si still, there is no current induced.  When you move the magnet, current is induced.  We have simple equations to equate the strength of the magnetic field and the velocity of change to the current induced.  Is there any way to increase the current induced by applying a "different length lever"?

EM,

You can't collect energy from a wave by 'waving' with it. You collect by 'waving' against it or some degree of opposition. More commonly known as 'field cancellation'. Of course, your tidal generator won't work if it is in 180 deg. opposition  ;D

Otherwise nice write-up, as you usually do.  :)

Ok. I'm ready for you to 'expand' your field upon me  >:-)

WW,

You know what I was thinking.    

If we had two perfect resonators of infinite Q,  they can influence each other anythwere in the universe, but the bandwidth would be ZERO, since BW = F/Q=f/INF = 0,   and this is bad becasue NO INFORMATION WOULD BE ABLE TO BE TRANSMITTED, of a finite bandwidth,  the only thing we could transmit would be DC.   But that is preposturous!  Or is it?   ???

So what's the point?  There is no point, only a singularity!   LOL   :)

May the fields be with you!  :D

EM

A perfect sine wave has a bandwidth of zero.

@ MH

yes, absolutely true,   but just as true,  there are no PERFECT sine waves.     I spent lot of time with a RADAR trying to elliminate its STALO's harmonic distortion, so doppler would work approrpiatly, but in vain.      >:(

@ DeepCut,   please don't shoot the messenger!    LOL    ;D

What the  >:-) this is a light hearted thread now, so let me throw out this highly speculative idea


Instead of using resonance to amplify a radio signal, how about cutting to the chase, and realize that the end result is a voltage signal that is properly phased with the current induced in the circuit by the magnetic and electric fields of the radio waves.

So,

Imagine we have a coil,  and every time the induced voltage is at a maximum, according to V= - N d PHI/ dt, at a point when the change of flux is maximum,  we than discharge a large capacitor into the coil to cause a HUGE CURRENT.  (might have to do it slightly before peak to allow current to build up due to inductance of the loop)

So a small voltage  V, times a HUGE CURRENT, will now represent a decent sized power flow from a minuscule radio signal.  This all works out because fields add linearly.    But there are some problems with this approach.   a sharp discharge represent a wide bandwidth signal and some of the energy will be radiated away at the resonant frequency of the coil, so maybe we can shape our pulses to avoid this frequency in it's FFT spectrum.   Than we should be able to trigger and fire the caps into the coil and also collect the back EMF from it, but it will represent MORE ENERGY THAN WE PUT IN,   but of course, being wise experimenters and having read Dr. Jackl's treatise on foolishness, we now know better, that energy was actually RECEIVED!       8)


For a while I thought Mr Aviso Ishmael was saying exactly what I just described, but than I realized he was on another "wavelength"!    :D

EM

Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.07.19, 22:52:07
WW,

You know what I was thinking.    

If we had two perfect resonators of infinite Q,  they can influence each other anythwere in the universe, but the bandwidth would be ZERO, since BW = F/Q=f/INF = 0,   and this is bad becasue NO INFORMATION WOULD BE ABLE TO BE TRANSMITTED, of a finite bandwidth,  the only thing we could transmit would be DC.   But that is preposturous!  Or is it?   ???

So what's the point?  There is no point, only a singularity!   LOL   :)

May the fields be with you!  :D

EM

And with you  ;D

Did you forget about Morse code (over telegraph lines) or digital transmission? Yes, digital on RF makes for plenty of channels over sidebands but the carrier can still carry information by simply switching off and on. I recall encrypted voice being carrier over a a very narrow carrier that couldn't be detected unless you had a spectrum analyzer (a very good one) or a very special receiver and antenna setup.

No matter. I can't find my infinite Q coils anyway  >:(

Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.07.20, 00:00:43
What the  >:-) this is a light hearted thread now, so let me throw out this highly speculative idea


Instead of using resonance to amplify a radio signal, how about cutting to the chase, and realize that the end result is a voltage signal that is properly phased with the current induced in the circuit by the magnetic and electric fields of the radio waves.

So,

Imagine we have a coil,  and everytime the induced voltage is at a maximum, according to V= - N d PHI/ dt, at a point when the change of flux is maximum,  we than discharge a large capacitor into the coil to cause a HUGE CURRENT.  (might have to do it slightly before peak to allow current to build up due to inducance of the loop)

So a small voltage  V, times a HUGE CURRENT, will now represent a decent sized power flow from a minuscule radio signal.  This all works out becasue fields add linearly.    But there are some problems with this approach.   a sharp discharge represent a wide bandwidth signal and some of the energy will be radaited away at the resonant frequency of the coil, so maybe we can shape our pulses to avoid this frequency in it's FFT spectrum.   Than we should be able to trigger and fire the caps into the coil and also collect the back EMF from it, but it will represent MORE ENERGY THAN WE PUT IT,   but of course, being wise experimenters and having read Dr. Jackl's treatise on foolishenss, we now know better that energy was actualy RECEIVED!       8)


For a while I though Mr Aviso Ishmael was saying exactly what I just described, but than I realized he was on another "wavelength"!    :D

EM

Congratulations EM!

You've just invented the super-regenerative receiver   :o

Milehigh is the yang to our ying, his point of view is exactly what all of us need to keep our motives and results true to science. Like my grandfather (33rd Deg Mason) always said, "If you can't take the punch, best you not scrap!"

Quote from: giantkiller on 2011.07.19, 18:21:21
Chinese proverb: "The person who says it cannot be done should not interrupt the person doing it."

Realization is the next freefall step outside of dogma.

Nobody says that it cannot be done, but only that resonance is not overunity. Resonance is just a mean for accumulating energy from each period of a cycle.
The dogma of free energy uneducated supporters is that there is more energy at the final step than the sum of energies that one puts in each step. Naturally they are totally wrong and this is proved by the fact that they are unable to give experimental evidence and that we are still searching for overunity in spite of thousands of resonance experiments in the past.

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011.07.20, 00:07:13
...
Did you forget about Morse code (over telegraph lines) or digital transmission?
...

Morse code is neither DC nor zero bandwidth signal. "Simply switching off and on" generates a rectangular signal whose the bandwidth is proportional to the rapidity of modulation, i.e. the speed at which the operator handles the morse key. If this signal modulates a RF carrier, then the carrier is spread in a bandwidth of same order as the signal bandwidth.
A zero bandwidth signal is a pure sine signal carrying no information: it is the limit of a resonant circuit with Q tending to infinity.

The bandwidth needed for RF transmission of an information signal depends on its rate and on the S/B ratio in the transmission channel. On shortwave where S/B is low, you need in practice for a digital voice transmission a bandwidth of same order as for an analog transmission (~ 2.4Khz, and with poor results).
By lowering the noise in the channel or by increasing the signal level, you can use denser coding methods and theoretically lower the needed bandwidth to an arbitrary narrow band. But in RF channels, noise and other defaults limit drastically this possibility.
There is an exotic theory (see http://www.vmsk.org) about ultra-narrow band transmission, by switching a RF signal by 180° and using special designed filter. I'm not sure it works, in spite the fact that the author seems rather skilled. There is no commercial device using it.

In any case this is related to signal transmission, not to energy.
How a resonant circuit works? It receives little energy at each period of time depending on the resonant frequency, and adds up to the energy it has already stored from the previous periods. Higher the Q, lower the losses, higher its holding capacity, higher the energy that it can store. This can lead to a high level of energy but there is not one experiment showing that the energy in a resonant circuit would be more than the sum of the small energy quantities that previously entered the circuit step by step at each period.

Very good write-up but...

Quote
Morse code is neither DC nor zero bandwidth signal.

In the telegraph line situation.... DC was used, with very few exceptions.

If you are one considering pulsed DC as being AC... I won't argue the point. DC is DC whether it is stable, rising or falling. When it crosses zero then it becomes AC. Until then DC with variations in amplitude is DC with an AC component.

Quote
"Simply switching off and on" generates a rectangular signal whose the bandwidth is proportional to the rapidity of modulation, i.e. the speed at which the operator handles the morse key. If this signal modulates a RF carrier, then the carrier is spread in a bandwidth of same order as the signal bandwidth.
A zero bandwidth signal is a pure sine signal carrying no information: it is the limit of a resonant circuit with Q tending to infinity.

As it is better known in radio circles "CW" (Continuous Wave) is modulation of an RF carrier only in that it turns the carrier off and on. Any sidebands from the transmitter are due to the unavoidable imperfections in the transmitting system. The BFO (beat frequency oscillator) in the receiver, or tuning off-carrier, is what adds sidebands so the signal is more audible. Only the almost impossible 'perfect' transmission system can send a signal with sidebands imperceptible after a short distance. Such systems do exist or 'did exist', at least in the late 70's. I know the (then) digital spectrum analyzers would not display them due to the poor sampling rates. You had to know what and where to look to see them with the best analog analyzers.

Listening for them from the Iron Curtain in West Germany, the transmissions from Berlin were extremely difficult to identify and had absolutely no sidebands from that distance.

Quote
The bandwidth needed for RF transmission of an information signal depends on its rate and on the S/B ratio in the transmission channel.

Only where the intelligence is from the modulation of the carrier. This is true for all types of modulation except on-off carrier systems with specialty suppression of switching noise inherent in any switching device.

Quote
There is an exotic theory (see http://www.vmsk.org) about ultra-narrow band transmission, by switching a RF signal by 180° and using special designed filter. I'm not sure it works, in spite the fact that the author seems rather skilled. There is no commercial device using it.

Perhaps none well known by the public. I'm not familiar with your link. I look forward to reading it, thanks.

The method you describe is familiar to me. It sounds very similar to stealth communications used in the 70's. It wouldn't surprise me that the method is a late bloomer.

My computer screen ( at my workstation - not shown in the attached pic - it was highly classified then ) was what is now known as 800x600 Super VGA. That was as late as 1979. Not all 'new' inventions are really 'new'.

Quote
In any case this is related to signal transmission, not to energy.

Very true.

My Hat's off to you WW,  that's more remote than where I worked, front line stuff!

Here's good reading on Eckstein:    http://www.rimbachvets.org/index.php/main/content/a_general_history (http://www.rimbachvets.org/index.php/main/content/a_general_history)


You should be very glad you weren't sent to Drifting Station Alpha in the North Pole,  God, I can only imagine!

http://www.american-buddha.com/lit.bodyofsecrets.6.htm


EM

PS.   The second link I posted is such good reading!   (I hope it's not fiction  lol   :)  )

Here's an excerpt:


Although the effort to locate Soviet early-warning radars along border areas had been growing in success, finding radars hidden deep inside the USSR had proved nearly impossible. But then someone remembered an incident at Cape Canaveral: during the test launch of a Thor intermediate-range ballistic missile, a signal from a ground-based radar a thousand miles away had bounced off the IRBM and reflected. down to the Cape, The CIA had used the experience to develop a system codenamed Melody, which they placed on the banks of the Caspian Sea. The idea of Melody was to focus Elint antennas on Soviet ballistic missiles during their test flights and follow their trajectory, The experiment worked beyond expectations, The intercept antennas were able to pick up signals from Soviet high-powered radars well over the horizon as they bounced off the missiles. Eventually, over the years, the Caspian Sea station was able to produce an electronic map of virtually all the ground-based Soviet missile-tracking radars, including the antiballistic missile radar systems at a test range a thousand miles away.

But Melody was not as successful in locating early-warning radars, especially a new surface-to-air missile system codenamed Tall King. At the time, it was considered essential to map all the Tall King radars to prevent the shootdown of American bombers in the event of war, Also, the CIA had a peacetime interest in knowing the locations of all surface- o- air missile bases. The agency was then completing work on a superfast, super-high-flying successor to the U-2, codenamed Oxcart, (The SR-71 would be a later variant.) Because Soviet missiles were reaching ever greater heights, and because the Oxcart was designed to overfly Russia, discovering the precise locations of these potentially deadly radar systems was vital.

The solution was to be found on the moon. Scientists determined that Tall King radar signals, traveling in a straight line, would eventually collide with the moon at least part of the day. The trick would be to catch the signals as they bounced back to earth. To accomplish this, a complex "catcher's mitt" was built. Near Moorestown, New Jersey, a giant sixty-foot satellite dish was aimed at the lunar surface. Attached to it were very sensitive Elint receivers tuned to the Tall King frequency. Over time, as the earth and moon revolved and rotated, all of the Tall King radars eventually came within view and were charted.


Here's a picture of the radar codenamed "Tall King"   (picture from here:    http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Rus-Low-Band-Radars.html (http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Rus-Low-Band-Radars.html)  and a picture of the type of targets it tries to detect (like the new stealth technologies)  I had the pleasure of seeing one pass me by at 10 MPH, almost floating in mid air,  so much lifting surface, must of been empty with a skiny pilot inside.    :o   ;D

Quote from: EMdevices on 2011.07.20, 17:32:30
My Hat's off to you WW,  that's more remote than where I worked, front line stuff!

Not a problem. At the time everyone thought we were an Armed Forces Network transmitting station and it was a strategic station. If you ever hear someone say they can hear the Georgian accent of a Soviet fly fart from 3500 miles..... well, it isn't that far from the truth  C.C

Quote
Here's good reading on Eckstein:  ...

Thanks but only did temporary duty there ( had to wear my uniform - yuk!)

Quote
You should be very glad you weren't sent to Drifting Station Alpha in the North Pole,  God, I can only imagine!

Hmm... I worked for someone who was there (what we called a cross-dresser - Air Farce to Army to NSA)

Quote
PS.   The second link I posted is such good reading!   (I hope it's not fiction  lol   :)  )

I doubt that it is fictional. Really, the whole page is actually very reserved  8)  It reads like a family reunion. Lots of stuff on the grill to go with beer... MELODY, SIGINT, ELINT, HUMINT, COMINT, SPOKE, ACKESS, GIANT REACH, REFLECTION, INVISIBLE, PLANAR SILENCE, etc. etc.

(There, that should set off some trigger word alarms  ;D ;D ;D ;D )

EM,

Earlier,  when I glanced at that link you posted, I thought the text was a little too familiar.

I just realized who the author is. It is Jim Bamford. He didn't earn the rank of 'cross-dresser'.

While he never made it past "Intelligence Analyst" in the military. He is the best public source for info on the family activities of 'Big Daddy DIRNSA'.

I can't vouch for all he has written but will say the published level of used technology and abilities he reports of The NSA are a full house short of the total deck.

You can't expect any more. He only has 'The freedom of Information Act' on his side and enough experience to know hidden facts are really there.

FIA does not exist beyond certain walls and for certain folks demanding credit for work previously done.  :(

Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011.07.20, 16:47:44
Very good write-up but...

In the telegraph line situation.... DC was used, with very few exceptions.
...

DC cannot transmit information. And when DC is switched on and off, it is not DC but a rectangular signal.

Quote
As it is better known in radio circles "CW" (Continuous Wave) is modulation of an RF carrier only in that it turns the carrier off and on. Any sidebands from the transmitter are due to the unavoidable imperfections in the transmitting system.
...

This is false. Having a long experience in radio transmissions both theoretical and practical, and in development of softwares for decoding radio data signals, including Morse code, I will try to explain.

"CW" is a way of speaking. A real continuous wave is not modulated, it is not switched on and off. Morse is switched CW.
To send Morse code, you need to switch on and off a signal, i.e. to generate a rectangular signal. Morse code specifications for best decoding are based on the dot duration (T). They recommend to use a dash of duration 3*T, a space of T between dash and dot inside a sign, a space of 3*T between signs, and 9*T between words.
T is around 50ms for operators transmitting at low/medium speed. If you transmit an H (....), this means that you send a squared signal of 100ms period = 0.1s (1 dot + 1 space, repeated 4 times). Therefore the associated frequency is 1/0.1 = 10Hz.
But it is not a sine signal. It is a squared signal, it has harmonics. To pass a rectangular signal, you need theoretically an infinite bandwidth due to the theoretically infinite time rise of the fronts (see "Fourier transforms"). In fact we can limit the bandwidth around 9 times the signal frequency without disturbing the signal shape too much. If an operator used a 10Hz passband filter, he will be unable to decode the signal due to the filter"ringing" that would make the instants of switching completely fuzzy. In practice, the "CW" filters in receivers have a bandwidth between 200-500 Hz. This allows the signal to keep its rectangular shape and the instants of switching to be precisely discriminated, what is absolutely needed for the readability.

Morse transmission is a 100% amplitude modulation of a carrier by a rectangular signal. It is a real amplitude modulation obeying the same rules as any amplitude modulation: we retrieve the spectrum of the input signal on each side of the carrier, in the upper and lower side band. It follows that we need twice the bandwidth of the input Morse signal, and adding the fact seen above that we need about 10 times the fundamental frequency of a squared signal to pass its harmonics for maintaining its shape, we understand the reason of a 200-500 Hz filter bandwidth for processing "CW" Morse signals in transceivers.

In conclusion any time you switch on/off a pure sine signal, you generate a wide spectrum. The sharper the switching, the wider the spreading. Any information transmission encoded by such a switching, occupies a non-zero bandwidth. In AM, the information is encoded in the two side bands around the carrier. "CW" Morse is AM by a rectangular signal, with 200Hz or more bandwidth.
A resonant circuit realizes a function of narrow filter whose the bandwidth is incompatible with a switching frequency that would be larger.

exnihiloest,

As I said. I will not debate AC vs. DC. I've found that folks not understanding the difference between alternating polarity and not alternating polarity hard headed enough to not agree with much of anything.

For the rest of your last post.... A nice explanation of modulation of a sine signal with a rectangular envelope. It is not completely correct but that doesn't matter to me.

The link you provided:

Quote
There is an exotic theory (see http://www.vmsk.org) about ultra-narrow band transmission, by switching a RF signal by 180° and using special designed filter. I'm not sure it works, in spite the fact that the author seems rather skilled. There is no commercial device using it.

It is what I suspected. As I shared before... not everything new is really new.

It does work and there are commercial devices using it. The paper is not completely correct, either. The important thing is they have more than enough understanding to make it work.

I neglected to mention signal bandwidths in my earlier posts as that would have started a flame war. Read the technical portion of the paper. I'm quite sure you will understand it.