OverUnity Research

Is this for real??

This may be pure voo doo but I am curious..

Is he just mistaking the pulsed dc output for regular dc??


http://www.financialpost.com/story.html?id=1076840

Jason was wotking on that  :)
He also visited the inventor with his controller but i do not know what became of it.

Marco.

Jason?

I just wanted to know if he had a real result rather than a erroneous measurement of output...

I doubt very much he has anything, from what I saw on Dragon's Den (http://www.cbc.ca/dragonsden/pitches/magnacoasters.html), and from reading the patent (the patent is brutal!).

Brett Wilson (one of the dragons) offered to make some kind of deal with Richard Willis IF he could prove to him that the device did indeed produce free energy. I never did hear if an investment deal by Brett was ever negotiated. I am curious if it was though. Does anyone know?

If I lived in Kitchener I'd pay Richard a visit and go over some measurements with him.

.99

Thanks poynt99!

Here is a MC photo you may not have seen..

Looks like it runs on just a distributor points module - non solid state unit

Good Grief!, LOL.

That would be his build of the 2nd preferred embodiment of his so-called invention. Check the patent, it is there.

.99

    "Well gesh buddy! Theres your problem, you need new points..."

I saw the patent with all the diodes in wrong

I 've had a unit ordered since August and spoke with them today.  My unit should be shiped this week. The problem being is I've been promised at least 6 times to be shiped since October.  I will  let you know when and if I get it.

Yes bearrabbit, it will be VERY interesting to see IF you get it, and WHAT exactly you get.

Can you elaborate for us as to what it is you ordered and what the cost was?

Thanks,
.99

It was a 9kw unit for $6,000.00.  The story is 10 units are ready to ship, mine included, just waiting for the new modules to be ok,d. Are you the one waiting for a unit also?

bearrabbit!

What did he claim it can do?

If it increases the input power, then why can it not be a self runner?

The videos on dragons den and interviews he has done do show suitcase self running units.  I feel he has something but obviously does not know how it works.  Looks like he has a computer background.

It seems to work on the BEMF inrush principle with a backfeed to recharge the start-up battery.  His patent hook up on diodes seems reversed from what I would do.

Unless he is using really slow diodes, may be if they are high amp..

Well the DD Video unit had a battery and it was not run for any period of time..

I can do the same thing with a pulsed flyback and light 1000 watts of bulbs off a battery for a period of time .. but not forever... yet..

time will tell.

Im not being negative! I am actually excited to see how it works!!

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.01.20, 01:38:29


    "Well gesh buddy! Theres your problem, you need new points..."

I saw the patent with all the diodes in wrong

I have alot of spare engines.
Some of them use these points in the ignition and i also have newer ones that use electronic ignition.
I prefer to drive with the electronic (cdi) type as the mechanical goes funky.  :)

Marco.

Ya I have a glass jar full of spare points from back in the day..

How come this guy has been working on this thing for so long and no one has replicated it..

Everyone jumped on the orbo like it was a stack of free gold but i have not seen any magnacoaster proof of concept builds??

Here is the video..

it sort of makes me cringe to watch it..

Also found a index of his posts.. interesting...

http://cr4.globalspec.com/search/sitesearch?do=show&us=12357&srchobjs=t,be,c (http://cr4.globalspec.com/search/sitesearch?do=show&us=12357&srchobjs=t,be,c)



The Record News - The curious case of Richard Willis
http://news.therecord.com/article/476404 (http://news.therecord.com/article/476404)


Business plan?
http://www.nealmastel.com/FS/plan.pdf (http://www.nealmastel.com/FS/plan.pdf)

I was tempted a few months ago to try a Magnacoaster replication after reading the patent and the general principle outlined on their webpage:
http://www.vorktex.ca/page/277176203
but I was working on other stuff already and now I'm going by my own theory for a while instead of replication. It is tempting to try though.

Oh yeah, also according to their webpage, Dragon's Den visited last month for an update. I've been watching the Dragon Den webpages on cbc.ca's website for news but nothing so far. See 11-09-09 here:
http://www.vorktex.ca/page/305540211
-Steve
http://rimstar.org

Magnacoaster update and site change

If he has a new group, I sure would like to talk to the " Old Group "  ;D ;D ;D

QuoteFrom Richard

02/11/2010

Well here we are a year down the road and we got it all the problems are near solved

(great group we have working on it now) we have the guys working on the computer

system to control the fact the unit will over charge.  We have to get the sensors all in

place and the new boards done it seems the world is ready.

A few places have signed deals for our units to fit into Solar systems for here in Ontario.

Never would have figured that it would be 3 years from the start to finish and ready for

the assembly line. The new digital boards we got from a supplier here in canada are

making the computer hooked a snap.

I would normaly have felt no need to say this,
but I don't understand your exertion.

Did you mean to indicate an alternative submission due to this:

"great group we have working on it now"

I apologize if I missed something somewhere

(Considering making my sig Mr Mispelled...)

Hi CompuTutor,

I was just quoting the latest post on the magnacoaster website..

the way he worded it it sounds like there are new people working on it. It was just my take on it.

My point was, I wish I knew what was happening with the magnacoaster project. Because if it is real it would be very exciting!

Moved from  gotoluc bench:

I dont mind.

here is where i did the test http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=173.0 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=173.0)

I did it with both static magnets and magnet in a rotating disk = same result

look at this image

see the un-energized coil allowing the magnet to repel the magnets in the wheel

same thing as GAP except / repulsion / attraction

it does not matter if the material in the wheel is magnetic or not, the effect is the same.

It cancels the flux in the metallic core producing work

If you get the " gap " correct between the metallic core and the material in the wheel ( magnetic or not ) it will work

If the material in the wheel is magnetic and you get the gap set to a neutral flux location you can get more work out than if it was not magnetic


(http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=133.0;attach=609;image)

I revised my response to ( ok almost exactly   )

When energized, in the gap between the core and the material in the rotor (if non magnetic) there is a neutral zone where a balance is reached between the opposing magnet and coil. The voltage to produce this effect can be as narrow as .25v

Too much voltage or too little voltage and the balance will not result << this is very important!

It looks like the GAP is going beyond this balance and pushing the coil/core into attraction for most of the rotation and then into balance while the metal arcs pass the core.

When the material in the rotor is magnetic there is also a balance established between the repulsion of the domain at the end of the core caused by the PM and the magnet in the rotor..

To close and there is only attraction < blotch wall is moved too far inboard in the core
Too far and there is only repulsion > blotch wall is not moved in core

The magnacoaster way of doing it is very powerful, imagine 500+lb of neo force repelling the magnet in the rotor but at the cost of energizing the coil with a lot of amps for around 315deg of a 360deg rotation.

I am just going to parachute into this thread.  I have only skimmed through some of the discussion.

I have three points:

1.  Richard's quote:

Quote02/11/2010
Well here we are a year down the road and we got it all the problems are near solved
(great group we have working on it now) we have the guys working on the computer
system to control the fact the unit will over charge.  We have to get the sensors all in
place and the new boards done it seems the world is ready.

A few places have signed deals for our units to fit into Solar systems for here in Ontario.
Never would have figured that it would be 3 years from the start to finish and ready for
the assembly line. The new digital boards we got from a supplier here in canada are
making the computer hooked a snap.

Trust me from someone that has worked in technology for a long time, that quote is rank amateur.  What he says and what he doesn't say speaks volumes about how Magnacoaster is not a real company.

2.  The university connection

Richard's claims about working with the University of Waterloo were checked out by Rickoff on the Energetic Forum and they did not pan out.  Rickoff contacted the appropriate engineering departments and they never heard of him.

3.  User manual from the looney bin

I once stumbled across a Magnacoaster user manual for the mid-sized unit (5 Kilowatts?) and there is a diagram of a bunch of car batteries wired together as part of the system.  In the diagram you see big car lead-acid batteries wired in parallel.  That is completely insane and dangerous and you would never get UL or CSA approval for that.  You could have a thermonuclear meltdown event with that battery configuration.

Magnacoaster is not real, not by a long shot.  Somebody once said his "facility" is actually some rental storage sheds dressed up to look like an office.

I won't even go into the reasons why controlling magnetic flux in a battery-powered box will not lead to over unity, the three points above should do it for some of the readers.

MileHigh

Magnacoaster is hiring:
_________________________________________



First - How to apply

Send a Email to jobs@magnacoaster.com.  Do not fax or phone ( if you Phone or Fax we will delete your application).

OR

Snail mail to Magnacoaster 500 Fairway Rd. S 23 - 333 Kitchener, Ontario, Canada N2C 1X3

First round interviews will be made at the end of March.  Only people that have the skill sets required will be called for a interview.

You must not have any heart conditions, pacemakers, heart springs, diebetic conditions, blood ailements, no metal plates, screws or body jewlery because we have high power magnets in this facility.  Fitness tests as well as medilcal certificates will be required with a clean bill of health.  You must be able to get a security clearance in the future as well if need be.  No cell phones or mp3 players as well as all personal property must be left in locker.  Clothing will be provided.

Jobs are going to be located in Cambridge near Townline and 401 area.







Dealer Trainer (5 positions)

Train and setup dealers.  Pogram is a 5 days long.  There will be 5 dealers per round of training and 2 training sessions per month per trainer.  We are looking for trainers that can cover all the bases,  paper work, site visits, tech. support for both  AC and DC power and handtools needed to work with this power.  Hands on experience with green power is a must.

Wages  TBD.

Dealer Support (20 positions)

Setup dealers and track progress as well as work 1 on 1 with problem solving. Good computer skills good problem solving as well as able to write manuals as needed.  We are looking for people that can cover all the bases,  paper work, site visits, tech. support for both  AC and DC power and handtools needed to work with this power.  Hands on experience with green power is a must.

Wages - TBD

Production line workers. (60 positions)

Assemble parts on an assembly line.  Use of hand tools as well as power tools.  You must be able to work in a fast paced area with the ability to think on your feet.  Team player a must.    Good hand to eye coordination.  Saftey shoes required.

Wages - TBD

Office Staff (5 positions)

Looking for people that can answer phones (inbound), take orders and provide tech support.  Good computer skills and the ability to speak clearly.  More than one language is a plus.

Wages  - TBD

Production Coordinator trainee.

Work for the production coordinator, look after problems on the line, ablity to think on your feet and think outside the box.  Good computer skills, orginizational skills, time managment skills and the ability to deal with people.

Wages - TBD

Magnet loaders (5 positions)

You must have big strong hands.  You will think on your feet and be able to work under pressure.  You need to be able to focus on ONLY your job as this job requires total concentration.  You must have machanical understanding and have a grip of no less than 100 lbs. because the magnets are very powerful.

Wages - TBD

Shipping/Receiving Person

Knowlage of outbound loads and packaging for rough shipping as well as dealing with overseas shipping.  Must be able to receive inventory, verify contents and log inbound parts.  Must have computer skills as well as tow motor licence.  Must be a team player and work well under pressure.

Wages - TBD

Assemble Area Forperson

Must have people skills and be up to date on all rules of employment.  Computer skills are a must.  Will be able to work under pressure and have assembly line experience.  Must have time managment skills and be able to problem solve on your feet.  Lines will need to have a 90 % rate of output.  Look after costs and trim waiste on the line.  Deal with all problems directly and have good training skills.

Wages - TBA

Magnet Area Forperson

Must have people skills and be up to date on all rules of employment.  Computer skills are a must.  Will be able to work under pressure and have assembly line experience.  Must have time managment skills and be able to problem solve on your feet.  Lines will need to have a 90 % rate of output.  Look after costs and trim waiste on the line.  Deal with all problems directly and have good training skills.  You must have big strong hands and be able to focus on ONLY your job as this job requires total concentration.  You must have machanical understanding and have a grip of no less than 100 lbs. because the magnets are very powerful.


Wages - TBA

Electronic Testers (5 positions)

Must be able to understand and use test equipment to messure power output as well as test all aspects of our units looking for shorts and other issues.  Skill set is scopes and meters, mesuring amperage and voltage from 12 volts to 2000 volts and have a strong understanding of electricity, electronics and current.  Must work under prssure, have good people skills, think on your feet and be a team player.  Experience for this job is a must.

Wages - TBA

Electronic Area Forperson

Must have people skills and be up to date on all rules of employment.  Computer skills are a must.  Will be able to work under pressure and have assembly line experience.  Must have time managment skills and be able to problem solve on your feet.  Lines will need to have a 90 % rate of output.  Look after costs and trim waiste on the line.  Deal with all problems directly and have good training skills.  Must be able to understand and use test equipment to messure power output as well as test all aspects of our units looking for shorts and other issues.  Skill set is scopes and meters, mesuring amperage and voltage from 12 volts to 2000 volts and have a strong understanding of electricity, electronics and current.  Must work under prssure, have good people skills, think on your feet and be a team player.  Experience for this job is a must.

Wages - TBD


Test Lab / Product Designers (2 positions)


Must be driven to think outside the box.  Ability look at problems and find solutions.  Must be able to build prototype parts, be experanced using  mill machine and lathe, and have a working knowledge of electronics and all test equipment.  You will have the ability to setup test peramiters, be a thinker and not afraid to have your experiments fail.  You will keep pushing until you find a solution.  You must be a team player and be willing to share your knowledge with your co-workers.  You will have tinkered with, or have ideas about power production on the outside fringe. Strong electronic skills, circuitry and knowledge of power and power production are essential.  Flexable hours as well as a great lab and equipment will be yours if you are the person we are looking for.

Wages - TBD

Well thats interesting DS

Maybe this guy is legit...I guess we can only hope so!

:)

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.03.16, 15:25:12

Magnacoaster is hiring:

...etc. etc. etc.

Thanks DS:

This looks like a crude attempt to present a facade of imminent growth to dupe investors.

Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.03.16, 17:29:00
Thanks DS:

This looks like a crude attempt to present a facade of imminent growth to dupe investors.

Exactly how I see it.

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.03.16, 15:25:12
Magnacoaster is hiring:

Dealer Trainer (5 positions)

Train and setup dealers.  Pogram is a 5 days long.  There will be 5 dealers per round of training and 2 training sessions per month per trainer.  We are looking for trainers that can cover all the bases,  paper work, site visits, tech. support for both  AC and DC power and handtools needed to work with this power.  Hands on experience with green power is a must.

Wages  TBD.

Hey, I'm a shoe-in for this one! 13 years travelling the world as a course developer/trainer/training manager for high tech companies and I'm currently a solar (including PV) contractor. Too bad I'm not looking.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

Quotewe can input power to the unit and increase the Amperage, Voltage and Frequency

If I took DC and turned it into pulsed dc I could easily increase the frequency and voltage.... but amperage?

Maybe Amperage per pulse??

Is pulsed dc from a capacitor able to do more work joul for joul compared to low voltage dc?


Magnacoaster changed their front page to this :

QuoteSolid State Power Support





Our units offer the latest in Solid state power support.

This means we can input power to the unit and increase the Amperage, Voltage and Frequency, allowing power to be created in a smaller space with no carbon footprint.



We have patents for the units in the USA as well as pending world wide. The units use less copper and have few parts that cannot be recycled.



Units have a rebuild cycle of 7 – 10 years where the coil packages will need to be refurbished.



Units can run 24 – 7 and run at a temperature of about 70F degree's (approx) and are small in size. At a mere 2200 cubic inches and weighing about 70 Lbs. this unit can be installed by 1 person no problem.

_____________________________________________________________________________
AKA:

Magnetic Research & Development

307-18 Holborn Court,

Kitchener, ON N2A 4A1
519-896-3354


____________________________________________________________________________
AKA:

http://www.puterdudes.ca/pu/html/about.html

Video DSCF2473 went missing from his youtube channel

here are two interesting screen shots..

Hey Darkspeed,

If I lived in Toronto I would take a drive to London and sniff this guy out.  It would be hard to get in the door through, unless you tried to pull a light con like trying to sell him CFL bulbs or something.  It might be fun to go chat up the boys in the local barbershop.

My qualifying instincts tell me this guy isn't real.  You probably saw my comments with respect to reading his documentation.

It just occurred to me that an investigative TV show could make a purchase and turn the tables on Richard.  They could cut Richard a check and then when there is no delivery in six months do a commando raid on him.  Get a judge to sign a search warrant and walk in cameras blazing.  It would be sweet.

Right now from what i can gather Richard is a con, and he is surviving on taking orders from people to cash their checks.  He will never deliver anything.  Just getting his ass on that TV show probably generated some real revenue for him.  Same thing for doing trade shows, he crosses his fingers that he can get a few bites.

It really is that bad.  If this guy actually had something he could demo it for real.  If it was real that wouldn't mean he had a viable business and people like me should retract our statements and let him run his business.  It would be an earth-shattering event, the biggest event in the 21st century, in the history of man.  It would rock the entire world and change it forever.  Alas, Richard can't really multiply the available energy in a bank of batteries 100 or 1000 fold.  None of it is real, none of it.  There is a minuscule chance that Richard is deluded.  The real answer is that he is a con artist.

Most of these types of characters, like Bearden, Bedini, Newman, etc, barely have a grasp of how electricity works.  Look at the MIT electronics and electromagnetism courses on YouTube.  That's the real thing, and Bearden or Bedini would be so lost and so utterly clueless in a mid-level college electronics course.  I read Bedini's 1984 booklet on his "Kromrery (sp?) Converter" and I almost puked.

Sorry to be pissing on the parades, just telling you how I feel.

MileHigh


PS.:  That's funny with the "Puterdudes" link also.  So now we know about one of Richard's other revenue streams.  He is one of the local computer handymen in the neighbourhood.  He buys parts and sticks them in a box and pops in the Windows CD and buys a wireless router.  Awesome.

QuoteMost of these types of characters, like Bearden, Bedini, Newman, etc, barely have a grasp of how electricity works.  Look at the MIT electronics and electromagnetism courses on YouTube.  That's the real thing, and Bearden or Bedini would be so lost and so utterly clueless in a mid-level college electronics course.  I read Bedini's 1984 booklet on his "Kromrery (sp?) Converter" and I almost puked.

MH
I've been reading at these forums for 6 years and I see this as the biggest problem at them, I don't mean anything negative there are many good people at them and their hearts are in the right place but they just don't know enough about electricity to make good contributions.  The forums are clogged up with questions of basic electronics, statements that don't make any sense, ideas that can never fly and endless conjecture about the physics involved.  Thats why I'm here, I hope this forum takes a more scientific approach to the things we are dealing with.

Room3237:

Yes but I try to find a middle ground.  I don't want to spoil people's fun but when it comes to people that are frauds and trying to steal money from gullible people that's another story.  It's for the common good to speak out against the fraudsters and thiefs.  People want to play without educating themselves, so a helping hand every now and then helps.  Like you said their hearts are in the right place.

MileHigh

Don't get me wrong MH I'm all for fun and try to help all I can.
As some of my drinking buddies like to say "there's nothing like fun for a good time"
I certainly don't want to stop the party.  8)

All I can say guys, is it's nice to have a bunch of folks that are not only bright but level-headed as well at OUR forum. Glad you guys are here.

re. Richard, I'm at awe as to how he has gone on so long without waking up. Guess he doesn't have any smart friends or folks that care.
:-\

Cheers my friends.
.99

Thanks .99

Magnacoaster is like the brakes failing on your car and watching it roll down your drive way toward the neighbours house

You know it is going to do something amazing.. you just dont know exactly when  ;D

but it would be cool if it actually worked.... :P

Maybe we should focus on building a replication. It doesn't seem that difficult.
Have a look at pages 10 - 12 of this document:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter3.pdf

What the Tweet?   ::)

Magnacoaster is on Twitter...

http://twitter.com/Magnacoaster

And a new website:   http://magnacoaster.com/power/index.html

QuoteMagnacoaster Power

We are looking for single family homes in the Cambridge, Kitchener and Waterloo areas

We are looking for 100 homes as a pilot project

The Agreement is as follows.

We need access to roof top as well as meter on house.

You must have a south facing roof.

You must have a minimum of 100 amps of power service

You must have a new smart meter on your house.

You will need to sign a 20 year contract

We will pay your electric bill for a 20 year period. *

* to a maximum of 1500 KWh per month max.

QuoteMaybe we should focus on building a replication. It doesn't seem that difficult.

The guy has a diode fetish!  lol

Just looking at the diode overkill shows you that Richard doesn't know what he is doing.  "One to 1,000,000 volts input" also shows you that he has no clue.

MileHigh

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.04.29, 19:36:28
And a new website:   http://magnacoaster.com/power/index.html

Interesting. He says 5 solar panels and they'll pay for up to 1500kW of your power usage per month. Let's assume they're the new, huge 300W panels. So 5x300W=1.5kW of panels. Using a generous 4 hours per day on average of full sunlight, that's 4 x 1.5kW x 31days per month=186kWh per month. All the panels will produce is 186kWh and yet they'll pay you for 1500kWh. So where's the rest of the power come from?

Well, this is Ontario and we have the microFIT program. With the microFIT you become a power generator and feeed power to the grid and get paid $0.802 per kWh. Let's pretend they're using that program.

With microFIT, you're still connected to the grid. So the rest of the power might come from the grid. How will Magnacoaster make money then? Well 4 x 1.5kW x 365 x 20 years x $0.802 = $35,127 total revenue from microFIT over the 20 years. Such a system costs around $12,000 roughly. Meanwhile the customer is taking power from the grid and Magnacoaster is paying for the first 1500kWh of that per month. 1500kWh x 12 months x 20 years x $0.091/kWh (on-peak electricity cost only, ignoring all other costs on the bill) = $32,760. So total cost for Magnacoaster for 20 years is $12,000 + $32,760 = $44,760. Profit is therefore $35,127 - $44,760 = -$9,633 (note the minus sign.) Even with leasing tricks, bulk rates to bring the costs down, I'm not sure you could turn it into profit. Maybe they're using a higher daily average of sunlight? This isn't California - we get one or two entire months a year with no blue sky.

So maybe they're thinking of adding energy using their system? I think the numbers are too close to call.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

Quote from: stevend on 2010.04.30, 14:28:17
Interesting. He says 5 solar panels and they'll pay for up to 1500kW of your power usage per month.

...if you have a south facing roof, he says.

The aussies are going to be well pissed off.

Latest....

Quotefollow us on twitter

http://www.twitter.com/magnacoaster

daily updates can be found there




27-04-2010

Here we are by the looks of it at the end of the line all the parts work we are getting a enclosure for the output box as it cannot be plastic as I had thought it could be. Sent out to have the steel one made should be here by monday all painted and rust proof. Turns out we have a EM feild in the plastic box in the 90 - 105khz range was over 1 km away still strong and that is a no no.

We had a great monday as all the network in the office was down due to a major power failure in the area over the weekend. Thus why if you called monday we could not answer the phones till late in the day.

I am looking at permit for ongrid problems now as we have 2 permits for customers out at OPA and there stuck. Seems OPA got hit with more then they could handle. Both installs for ongrid will take place in end of June.

Don is going to have this week off due to a family matter send a email and he will get back to you next week.

Im off to the USA for a meeting on Friday to develope a new Unit and package for Cell phones and also a small (under 100 watt unit for portable units) also will be looking at the location for the USA plant when im down there. As well we can start talks to get into the USA for our 10 K ongrid units.

Once i have the cover next week i can get the balance of my testing out of the way and we can move forward on production. We can start to crank out here as the cambridge plant comes on line.

Richard


check out our new test market for solar here in the KW area.

http://www.magnacoasterpower.com

Hey Darkspeeed,

Please don't be offended but I am going to slice and dice through Richard's tweets.

QuoteHere we are by the looks of it at the end of the line

Richard has probably said this a dozen times over the past two years.

QuoteSent out to have the steel one made should be here by monday all painted and rust proof. Turns out we have a EM feild in the plastic box in the 90 - 105khz range was over 1 km away still strong and that is a no no.

I am no expert with respect to RF shielding and I am very rusty here.  However, I can make a few relevant points.  Enclosing something in a metal box is generally done to keep external RF out and not to prevent the transmission of RF from inside the box to the outside world.  In fact, the metal enclosure should have very little affect on stopping the broadcasting of RF, it should look more or less transparent.  I am being very general here and not discussing the frequency issue.  In real life you always discuss the effect of a setup like this with respect to frequency.

This business, "Turns out we have a EM feild in the plastic box in the 90 - 105khz range was over 1 km away still strong and that is a no no," is another smoking gun telling you that Richard is a fake and he has no idea what he is talking about.  90 - 105 KHz is a ridiculously low frequency and is probably not even looked at when you check devices for RF interference.  The chances of his device of his device radiating energy in this frequency range at any measurable intensity are nil.  100 KHz has a three kilometer wavelength, and the mismatch between the size of his device and any radiating elements it may contain and the 3 Km wavelength are extreme.  When you do EMI testing on an electronic device you check for it's radiation power from about zero to three meters away and you are primarily sniffing for EMI radiation in the one megahertz and above frequency range.  It would simply be impossible to pick up a 100 KHz EMI emission from his device from one kilometer away.  It simply doesn't make any sense at all.

QuoteI am looking at permit for ongrid problems now as we have 2 permits for customers out at OPA and there stuck. Seems OPA got hit with more then they could handle. Both installs for ongrid will take place in end of June.

Have you ever heard Richard mention UL and CSA approval?  I haven't and he needs that approval if he wants to sell his devices.  I don't believe for a second that Richard is in serious talks with the Ontario Power Authority.  Richard would last about five minutes with an OPA engineer before he was found out.  No OPA engineer would take Richard seriously.  So it's no surprise that the permits are "stuck."  The entire OPA story is pure BS.  End of June my ass, Richard is just stalling in an attempt to string-along his story because it gives him and his company the illusion of credibility.

QuoteIm off to the USA for a meeting on Friday to develope a new Unit and package for Cell phones and also a small (under 100 watt unit for portable units) also will be looking at the location for the USA plant when im down there. As well we can start talks to get into the USA for our 10 K ongrid units.

Cell phones?  He never mentioned that before as far as I am aware.  He is in SS Orbo/MEG territory here.  Where did the micro version of his device come from?  It doesn't exist.  Looking for a location for a production plant?  That's pure bullshit, and it's all part of him trying to create the illusion of credibility.

QuoteOnce i have the cover next week i can get the balance of my testing out of the way and we can move forward on production. We can start to crank out here as the cambridge plant comes on line.

The "we're hiring" stuff on his website is all bullshit.  There is no plant that going to go online in Cambridge, Ontario.  It's all part of the illusion of credibility.

I think I read somewhere online about people sending Richard a 50% down payment on a unit and nothing has been delivered.  I think that there are a few cases like this.  I apologize I don't have a link for this.

To sum up, Magnacoaster is in exactly the same position they were in last year at this time.  Promising a working unit "soon" and talking bullshit about his company's big plans.  Meanwhile his sits in the same "office" a rented out storage facility doing who knows what.

You may find me cynical but watch this space.  In one year or two years Magnacoaster will not have moved forward a single iota as a company.  No working units, no production plants in Ontario or the US, and no deal to pump electricity back into the grid with Ontario Hydro.

MileHigh

MileHigh - im never offended.. go for it..  he has not shown me a working device so i am just as critical...

He's right about the delays with the OPA (Ontario Power Authority that oversees the Feed-in Tariff program for feeding solar power to the grid.) Solar companies here in Ottawa, Ontario are experiencing the same problem, causing delays in doing installations (which means I'm not being called in on so many solar jobs, so I can spend more time working on testatika - yeah!)
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

Hey Steve,

How close are you to Richard? Perhaps you could go visit him?

It would be interesting to get feedback as to what Richard is really up to. He probably could use some guidance.

Thanks for the links to your sites...informative and interesting.

.99

Quote from: poynt99 on 2010.05.05, 13:43:25
How close are you to Richard? Perhaps you could go visit him?

It would be interesting to get feedback as to what Richard is really up to. He probably could use some guidance.

Sadly, I'm about an 8 hour drive away and I don't have a car anymore
(don't need it where I live and enjoy the exercise too much instead), so any visit
is out. I did meet Richard when he was at a conference in New York
last summer but didn't find out anything was wasn't already on his website.

Quote from: poynt99 on 2010.05.05, 13:43:25
Thanks for the links to your sites...informative and interesting.

Glad you found them so. Thanks for the feedback.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

.

New photos on magnacoaster site :

Top : looks like some sort of motor mounted to the top and then a display and a switch

Top left : hv transformer , hv pulse cap, filter cap , mosfets, fuses ... looks like a microwave cap behind fuses

Top Right : mosfets signal generator... maybe pulse width / duty cycle knobs

Middle : two batts.. inverter..

Bottom : four cube neos... Coil over ferrite bar... gap ... cube neo... glued in plastic block

Heat sinks are not very big .. must be hv lo current

Looks like a stout wire coming off the coil - or a group of wires to one terminal..

Seems there is no longer a heat/corona problem - no oil bath - no oil pump

Is that inverter case at potential?? it seems to be isolated big time on thick plastic


but what does it all do  :o

Blowed up

Just for fun..

As I understand it the coil shunts the magnetic field in the ferrite bar and then when the coil turns off the magnetic flyback is greater than the initial energy required to shunt the field.

So in short it is collecting the flyback

Without the igbt's loading the flyback with the battery the flyback would just ring through the fwbr but then it would have no where to go. Looks like the battery would be a good place to unload this charge.

wire on his coil looks like litz

The pcb on the right is the timer and the pcb on the left is the hv pulse module

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.05.12, 20:20:30
Top : looks like some sort of motor mounted to the top and then a display and a switch

The motor looks like a "PC" fan. It looks like there might be spacers keeping it from
being flush with the top of the enclosure.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org   http://wsminfo.org

Quotewe should ship in the next few weeks we are in the middle of a repair on a main drive board.

new

Had some down time tonight so i decided to machine some plastic and play with this idea and see what there is to it.

I will wind the coil on the bar - the threshold can be set with the brass screw

looking at  the revised circuit diag above...

Here is my theory

Coil is energized with 12vdc from battery through igbt's - saturating the bar with flux from the coil and thus holding off the stack of magnets

HV coil fires raising the voltage on the coil

As HV coil collapses the back emf turns off the igbt's and causes an additional back emf from the 12v on the coil - also causing the flux from the stack of magnets to pass through bar , coil , and collide with the single bias magnet.

Guys pick this apart...

At some point in this cycle you end up with 12vdc traveling one direction in the coil and HV back emf traveling the other direction in the same coil... this sounds very familiar

if the hv switched over the dc produces the force look for the collecting device and check the orientation

is there a good diagram for this?

I think my revised diagram a few posts above is good.

If it is what i think it is  - it is kind of clever because by the time the hv and the lv are opposite of each other the hv pulse is over ( only back emf remaining ) and there is no need to try and shut it off during the effect. - that was one of the problems with gray was being able to modulate the hv during the effect

Well, if anyone insists on building this, here a few observations based on DS's diagram above: (assuming it works as claimed)

No separate collector
No rotation


The clever aspect of bemf is the same as with a delay line to set the pulse width in a pulse generator - when it reflects it shuts off the pulse  ;D

Edit:

You can do the same with a large high-inductance coil that has a dc solenoid coil (like a secondary winding in the same direction) over it.  With a battery on the outside coil, and pulsing the inner coil, you will see a rise in voltage on the terminals of the battery of a few volts (noticable but not extreme).

On the larger units it looks like there are additional pickup coils around the main coil.

G- I wonder if this is a very weak version of the incident where we wiped out the equipment in the lab above us with the ( pulse + magnetic vice + idiot ) thing i told you about

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.06.15, 19:19:28

On the larger units it looks like there are additional pickup coils around the main coil.

G- I wonder if this is a very weak version of the incident where we wiped out the equipment in the lab above us with the ( pulse + magnetic vice + idiot ) thing i told you about

Sounds like it is.

Entry level OU is right there and pretty easy with a couple of coils.  Will charge batteries an such, and for some, that is enough.

You know, we should throw few of these together and do some tests to prove what I'm saying is true.  Let me get a diagram going.

Yes!

Look a few post up.. I built the clear demo unit last night to use as a test bed - i just need to wind some coils  - maybe tesla's bifilar magnet wind?

as simple as it gets: (see attached) wind this up and give it a go, got to have the pulses tho!

Lot more here than meets the eye, but this is a good start for anyone.   OU straight out of the gate! (not much ok, but beter than a poke in your eye with a stick...)

EDIT: I later found out that this coil is not OU.  The aether is just expanded in all directions arond the coil.  For it to be anomalous, the aether has to move across the coil windings, preferably over and over.

This coil is just a CCU coil from the AVEC.

Thanks G!

I wonder if a gapped magnet at both ends pushing back would help

Quote from: darkspeed on 2010.06.15, 20:59:09
Thanks G!

I wonder if a gapped magnet at both ends pushing back would help

If you use them, keep them striaght and they have a frequency that I do not know how to determine except by trial and error.  Hit the freq and they will come apart in a billion pieces.  If you start playing with different magnetic angles, you can increase the energy - might be a little - might be a hell of a lot.

I think Magnacoaster works like this guys device public disclosed:

https://www.gap-power.com/index.html

The similarities to me are amazing!

Fausto.

Hi Fausto,

I followed the link and I looked at the first four or five videos, the last one I looked at was the motor test results clip.

None of it is credible, and they don't know what they are doing.

MileHigh

The explaination is in the Kunel patent.
Google 'Kunel patent' or check these primary docos.

http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Patents/DE3024814.pdf (http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Patents/DE3024814.pdf)

http://www.intalek.com/Papers/Handout3.pdf

These two documents were the supporting documents that I used to start the 'Bloch wall' thread in OU. I did a small build and test to see another replication of the process. In this build the coils were on the same axis as the Magnacoaster device. These can be made incredibly small! Like on pen barrels, which I did.

Caveat. Use low voltage with weak magnets or HV with strong magnets. You can not use Neo mags. They are too strong and you can not twist, cancel, or reverse the flux. Es muy importante! SM used weak cabinet magnets. Usually they are sided with steel to enhance the force.
The flux has to be altered. As Grumpy stated 'When momma nature kicks back it is muy grande!'. The magnet has to return to normal! Let nature do the work.

Basically the TPU process is shorting a stun gun across a magnetic gap. That is why Grumpy pushed quenching. You can quench the gap but also it enables high speed flux alterations. Which means? Lots of returns.

Now go one step further:
Create your own mag field and hit it with vectored fields at oblique angles. Can you say Spherics?
It always was simple but the choices were too many by the number of designs. That is why Grumpy says 'just build it'. The flux or artificial field is impacted by a vectored control.
And remember 'The design is not complicated'. Now you have the basic pattern of simplicity.
Grumpy also warns of HV against magnets CAUSING SHATTERING. Pretty obvious. It twists the field INSIDE the matter causing molecular lattice breakdown.  :o

Magnacoaster is the Kunel device. Same as Alan Porter's video.   ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)
Also Magnacoaster uses little neos at the back end of the cabinet magnets to slighty enhance the field.

Giantkiller:

Those documents are for another type of "MEG" device.  I am not going to go deep into this issue, it's not my cup of tea.  Plus there seems to be a TPU group and this is related and I don't want to get into it with them either.

The fist thing I note is that the patent is from 1982 and the application note is from 2002.  So is this real or just another idea that went nowhere?

From the application note:

QuoteMagnetic fields are represented as vectors. Adding
orthogonal magnetic fields using permanent magnets
will "increase  the permeability mu "  of the
ferromagnetic core material. As a consequence, the
inductance and the energy of the coil increases. The
results are a higher COP value.

I can't see how you can increase the permeability of the core material with the application of external magnetic fields.  There is a diagram on page 16 that shows the BH curve and mu curve is shifted to the left because of the application of an external magnetic field.  That's fine but they are claiming that the initial amount of magnetic flux B when H = 0 is a source of excess free energy.  To me it looks like that flux is there because of the influence of the external magnetic field, presumably caused by an external magnet.  To me that means when you start to put current through your coil to generate H, the permeability of the core is higher than it would normally be.  Therefore the instantaneous inductance will be higher and for low values of H you can store more energy than you normally could at lower H values.  This means that the instantaneous value of mu at lower H values increases, but the maximum value for B does not change.  So the "overall" permeability for the core does not change.  On top of that, since you are already biasing the core with an initial B, that means that you are occupying some of the "energy storage bandwidth" of the core.  The result of this biasing of the core is that you can store less energy in the core when you put current through the coil to generate the H.  What they call an "excess free energy component" associated with the initial B for H = 0 is really what causes the maximum energy storage reduction of the core.

I think the most important point for me is that even if you shift the BH curve to the left and change the instantaneous inductance and make it higher, you still have to put energy into that core/inductance to get energy back out.  Increasing your mu value does not mean that you get free energy, it only means that you can store more energy which you can get back later when you discharge the inductor.  The COP of the energy storage/retrieval will not increase.  Certainly you may be able to store more energy for a certain amount of current that you put through the coil, but that does not mean you get an increase in COP.

The volume of a ferromagnetic core material gives you the capability to store a certain amount of magnetic energy.  So the higher the power transfer capacity of a given transformer at a fixed excitation frequency, the larger the transformer has to be.  You need to increase the volume of the ferromagnetic core to sustain a higher power transfer because you need to store an larger amount of energy in the core for each cycle.  If you bias the core with an external magnet so that it always has a fixed base amount of flux B flowing through it, you reduce the amount of energy you can store in the core for each cycle.

From what I can see, biasing the core with a base amount of flux B, or not biasing the core, will not change the energy in/out COP of the core.  The only thing it will do is give you a higher instantaneous inductance for lower values of H, i.e.; the amount of current you are putting through your coil.

MileHigh

I was no way trying support a Maganasty. I simply pointed out the devices that are similar. There have many publishings out cancelling the flux. I have seen that return and so have others on the bench. I have not seen this mentioned in the classroom or collegiate training texts from the ivory publishments.

I mentioned the process for the benefit of those who would even think about going down one device path and not stripping the idiot publishings of the nuggets.
Everybody knows the pattern: Show a device, show a demo, make a claim and produce techno babble about its operation. Babelfish: Techno babble(the art of obfuscation).

#1: Unless one has seen it on the bench.
#2: Unless one has made it on the bench.
and
#3: Unless one can see through the noise.

One simply can not say it doesn't exist.

There are some youtubers out there that have spinning devices that seem not to be tricks. They seem to be upfront, forthright, and studious in their attempts i.e. the stubblefield reproducer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQGuXJ02fo&feature=related
Plz, splain me dis?

Quote from: giantkiller on 2010.10.04, 19:14:16
...
There are some youtubers out there that have spinning devices that seem not to be tricks. They seem to be upfront, forthright, and studious in their attempts i.e. the stubblefield reproducer. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuQGuXJ02fo&feature=related
Plz, splain me dis?

Hi giantkiller,

I know you mainly addressed your question to MileHigh but please allow me to briefly answer.

Lasersaber in the video created a "distributed" low power battery from the Alu and Copper wire coils, using a moistered insulating material as the chemical component part of the battery. A very clever and unusual way for making a battery from dissimilar metals like that and the coil pair functions as an energy source i.e. battery, as an electromagnet and as an induction coil.

I feel you surely know all this. What else is to  be explained?

rgds,  Gyula

Thanks. I apologize. I do know this.
We have threads dealing with devices, processes, builders, nay-sayers, kooks and liars.
I was just trying to pull it together into a cohesive process of events we have all seen.

I am still trying to find the youtuber that showed the double pulse higher return scope signal.

Giantkiller:

Yes there is big buzz about Lasersaber's battery setups.  The thread "Self-Runner NS Coil Pulse Motor Live Video Stream. It's been going for months!" is still going strong.  As Gyula stated, these are galvanic batteries with their electrodes coiled up like an inductor.  That way when they discharge they also become electromagnets.  Since they are incredibly weak as batteries, the fact that you only switch them on every 1/4 second or so with perhaps a 10% duty cycle allows the batteries to build up enough of a reserve of charge so when you do momentarily switch it on it lets out a tiny "puff" of energy that becomes a tiny magnetic pulse that makes the rotor continue turning.

What nobody seems to be discussing is the fact that the metals when corroding produce galvanic current and by extension energy.  You can look up the energy extractable when one gram of given metal in a galvanic setup corrodes.  I don't know all the numbers but I do know that for magnesium I dug up the numbers and they are fantastic (quoting myself):

QuoteMetal corrodes just from the moisture in the air. Copper and iron are classic examples of this. Aluminum and magnesium are examples that create much more galvanic current than copper or iron. Magnesium has a particularly high energy density. For magnesium it takes 43.2 thousand joules of electrical energy to produce just one gram. When it corrodes you get some of that energy back. So it's no surprise that a magnesium battery can power a microwatt motor for months.

So let's just look at this in ballpark terms.  Suppose you have a motor that contains one gram of magnesium, and suppose that when it corrodes you can get 1/2 of the energy back that created it.  That about 20,000 joules of energy.  Let's take a wild guess that a typical "motor" with a rotor that spins balanced on a needle point consumes an average of 5 micro-watts of power.  It's just a guess!  So what's the run time?

Well it's 20,000 seconds if the motor was running at 1 watt, times (1/0.000005) = 4,000,000,000 seconds.   With more number crunching that's 126 years!

So, supposing I was too optimistic about the power consumption and it's actually 50 micro-watts ->  Now it's a 12 year run time.

Supposing a typical battery in a YouTube clip only contains 0.2 grams of magnesium ->  Now it's a 2.4 year run time.

What if you only can get 10,000 joules of energy per gram?  ->  Now it's a 1.2 year run time.

That's an example of a scientific fly-by-the-seat-of-your-pants intellectual exercise.  You have three pieces of data to work with, 1) A guesstimate of how much power the motor is consuming just by eyeballing it.  2) You could easily weigh the amount of metal in the battery.  3) A rough guess as to how much energy you can get back from your corroding metal (This one could easily be looked up online to get the real numbers)

Then you crunch the numbers and you can clearly see that Lasersaber's demos are all explainable.  I just don't know why nobody does this relatively simple analysis first before all of the wild speculating sets in.

Anyway, going back to the original discussion about the MEG-type transformer setup.  You mentioned you built one.  I think that you also mentioned that you discussed it in an OU thread.  If that's the case, can you give a link to the right point in the thread for where your discussion starts?  My gut feel is that it's not easy to make measurements on a setup like that, and you have to be very careful there.

MileHigh

Grumpy,  Thanks for putting up a real OU diagram ... I think.  It seems something has happened though to the .png file as nothing I've got will open it.  Tried several programs that always open .png files.  Tried MS Office tools as code in the file indicated it was made with MS Office.  What can I use to view this or has it gotten corrupted?  
Edit:  I ran a couple file type identifiers on the file but none of them can recognize the file type.  So I assume it got scrambled? 

Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.06.15, 20:53:00
as simple as it gets: (see attached) wind this up and give it a go, got to have the pulses tho!

Lot more here than meets the eye, but this is a good start for anyone.   OU straight out of the gate! (not much ok, but beter than a poke in your eye with a stick...)

@Giantkiller
I saw that salt battery setup and found it quite interesting, I know many technical persons would probably just dismiss this as a normal behavior but we can never be sure. For one there is the common assumption that there is still water present in the coils acting as an electrolyte which is questionable after such a long period of time. We should also consider that the salt solution may crystalize on the paper dielectric and these crystals which are diamagnetic in nature could also produce electrostatic forces should the coils vibrate or oscillate in any way. Now what might the consequences be of an electrostatically charged diamagnetic crystal oscillating in the presence of a magnetic field which may or may not have a high rate of change as well as a high frequency?. What are the consequences of these possible oscillations as they relate to the surface of the dielectric and the conductors? For me this is what "science" and research is all about, not jumping to conclusions or dismissing things we do not fully understand.

We could say the same thing of the magnetic devices which are the topic of this thread, on the surface it is easy to make assumptions of "ordinary" operation but the claims in themselves dictate extra-ordinary phenomena taking place. I believe you are on the right track with some of your prior posts as I have built many of these devices and there is usually more to them than meets the eye, there are always little details we miss which only show up through actual experiments. One such detail in magnetic systems is the effect of material boundary conditions vs proximity(near field) and the geometric relationship of the field sources, in one case the field strength was found to swing drastically from one side to the other with no presence of motion. That is one could see no motion of the magnets whatsoever and it is comical that anyone would expect to see this phenomena on any simulator as a simulator is not reality. A person would need a microscope to detect the extent of motion required to swing the field and there is no simulator up to this task. I have found this is the "grey area" the critics have not fully considered as Faraday's laws of induction relate to motion of the magnetic field relative to a conductor but it makes no stipulation as to the extent of motion required to move not the magnetic field which relates directly to the "work" input. I believe it was Ampere who stated that the field of an object should be considered as "seperate" from the source which created it however all "forces" must translate back to the source. If there is one thing we do know it is that normally when we attempt to move the magnet or conductor we lose and we can attribute this loss to work or a force acting over a distance but what happens when there is literally no distance and the input force is conserved? At this point many of the long held "theories" tend to fall apart and we can see this in the nanotechnologies as well where things acting on small scales can have large consequences. In any case I was never one to take the critics too seriously as I have yet to find one who can explain what the primary fields E, B, G are fundamentally, which raises the question how the hell could anyone understand much of anything without a solid foundation to build on?. Good luck with your experiments ;)

Regards
AC

@AC,
Thanks and I agree.
The reason nanotechnolgies is proving so many things is the target matter is soooooo much smaller than the source force. Obviously. Same size ratio as a nuclear bomb detonation against a big city. The matter is altered in compliance with the force of the magnetic field.

A new simulator is needed that combines the magnetic field with fluid dynamics.

Just a comment about the water issue.  There is almost always some humidity in the air and that humidity can keep the metal corroding and the battery can continue to produce a very small amount of power even though it is "dry."

I don't know enough about silica gel to know if it can remove 100% of the water from a volume of air.  However, it does suggest a simple experiment:  Put a Lasersaber motor inside a sealed glass jar with some silica gel.  It would not be surprising if the motor stopped cold within two days.  Then remove the motor from the jar and wait a day or two for moisture from the air to re-infuse itself through the battery.  Then see of you can get the motor to run again.  If all goes as expected that would be a clear indication that the device works due to the corrosion of metal.

MileHigh

Quote from: giantkiller on 2010.10.07, 16:25:39
@AC,
Thanks and I agree.
The reason nanotechnolgies is proving so many things is the target matter is soooooo much smaller than the source force. Obviously. Same size ratio as a nuclear bomb detonation against a big city. The matter is altered in compliance with the force of the magnetic field.
A new simulator is needed that combines the magnetic field with fluid dynamics.

Hi @GK

Just to make a correction. Nanosize particles are extremely small but far more larger than any source particle, if you consider source particles to be based on or smaller then the copper atom itself. Here is a chart we use in our water treatment industry to give a visual idea of particle size.

Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.05, 00:01:29
Giantkiller:

Yes there is big buzz about Lasersaber's battery setups.  The thread "Self-Runner NS Coil Pulse Motor Live Video Stream. It's been going for months!" is still going strong.  As Gyula stated, these are galvanic batteries with their electrodes coiled up like an inductor.  That way when they discharge they also become electromagnets.  Since they are incredibly weak as batteries, the fact that you only switch them on every 1/4 second or so with perhaps a 10% duty cycle allows the batteries to build up enough of a reserve of charge so when you do momentarily switch it on it lets out a tiny "puff" of energy that becomes a tiny magnetic pulse that makes the rotor continue turning.

That's interesting MileHigh.  Does that mean that if the device runs WITHOUT salt and WITHOUT water - saving perhaps some moisture in the air - that the device is then what?  A generator?

Regards,
Rosemary

Rosemary:

What I am saying is that the source of the power is the corroding metal.  Current is produced when the metal interacts with the water and the oxygen in the air.  The power production is simply the result of a chemical reaction.  Like I previously posted, enormous amounts of electrical energy are needed to produce metals like aluminum and magnesium.  So aluminum and magnesium are potential components of a battery, just like the components in a lead-acid battery.  In other words they contain potential chemical energy that can be transformed into electrical energy.  Pirate Bill keeps on thinking that this is all "free" perhaps because he is unaware that massive amounts of electricity were used to make the components of his "earth batteries."  The energy comes from the aluminum or magnesium smelter.  It takes so much electricity to produce aluminum that they sometimes build hydroelectric power plants that are dedicated to providing power for aluminum smelters.

In my experiment, when you take away the water, the chemical reaction stops dead, and then the battery can't output any power.  It's akin to draining the electrolyte out of a lead-acid battery.

MileHigh

Just to add a few more comments.  The current is only produced if there is a circuit for it to flow through.  If there no circuit then there is no metal corrosion.  They use this trick on ocean-going oil rig platforms.  They make current flow in the opposite direction versus the normal "corrosion" direction.  That ensures that the metal in the sea water that supports the oil platform won't corrode over time.

As far as the water goes, it can conduct electricity to form the electrical circuit between the two pieces of metal.  I suppose the material that separates the electrodes itself may not be a perfect insulator also.  The key point about the water is that we know that perfectly distilled water is an insulator, and the moment that there are impurities in it it starts to conduct.  The water or moisture that is in one of these types of batteries is by definition not pure.  There are all sorts of impurities that are present in the make-up of the battery that will give any moisture that is present in the battery the ability to conduct electricity.  It could be some chemicals on the surfaces of the metals, chemicals used to treat the cotton, finger grease, whatever.

It's interesting that Lasersaber can make a microwatt "motor" or that Pirate Bill can light some LEDs from his "earth batteries" but it is not remarkable.  As far as "telluric currents" go, why doesn't somebody put two pieces of identical stainless steel in the ground and see if they can pick up any energy from the telluric currents?  That way you factor out the galvanic currents.  From what I read about telluric currents, they are not capable of producing power in the way that a buried galvanic battery setup will.  Any possible energy pickup from telluric currents would be so minuscule as to be unmeasurable and below the background noise level.

That was fun getting that off my chest!

MileHigh

@wattsup

QuoteJust to make a correction. Nanosize particles are extremely small but far more larger than any source particle, if you consider source particles to be based on or smaller then the copper atom itself. Here is a chart we use in our water treatment industry to give a visual idea of particle size.

I think nanotechnology is a very important concept to understand, that is when the many aggregate parts of a larger area or object can be manipulated in such a way to effect the area or object as a whole. Victor Schauberger understood this concept of nanotechnology early in his work and in fact most of his work was not with water or the vortex but with electrostatics as they apply on nanometer scales and catalytic action. LOL, if people only knew, if they had any idea of what Schaubergers work implied as it relates to energy in the environment they would abandon all their silly coal fired power stations and hydroelectric generators in a heartbeat. Consider "what" we do, we move magnets past a wire and the moving magnetic field seperates the charges, charges that were always present in and on the wire as fields. Next, when this charge seperation is discharged as an electric current into a load this current opposes every motion of the magnet field which translates a force back to the magnet opposing it's motion as well. We simply pump charges in a continuous loop which is losing energy at every turn, it is beyond absurd, we may as well be living in the stone ages. The only real interaction with the environment is the fact that we are losing almost all the energy to the environment instead of powering our loads. If you want to break out of this cycle of ignorance I would suggest taking a fresh look at what nanotechnology represents from the perspective of electrostatics, a state of charge which translates indirectly through the fields and motions of small objects and not conduction currents, what some call "cold" electricity simply because it does not convert most all it's energy as motion to heat.
Regards
AC


I have found most often it is not what we see and measure that leads us astray it is what we "think" we see and measure that actually leads us astray.

@milehigh

QuoteIt's interesting that Lasersaber can make a microwatt "motor" or that Pirate Bill can light some LEDs from his "earth batteries" but it is not remarkable.  As far at "telluric currents" go, why doesn't somebody put two pieces of identical stainless steel in the ground and see if they can pick up any energy from the telluric currents?  That way you factor out the galvanic currents.  From what I read about telluric currents, they are not capable of producing power in the way that a buried galvanic battery setup will.  Any possible energy pickup from telluric currents would be so minuscule as to be unmeasurable and below the background noise level.

Do you think that if you buried two pieces of identical stainless steel in the ground that you could pick up energy from telluric currents or any energy for that matter?, some day you may understand that it is not always the magnitude of the interactions but the quality of the interactions with nature that matter the most. This is the real issue, there was never any problem understanding that we are surrounded by magnitudes of energy we cannot concievably comprehend. Richard Feynman's energy in a cup of coffee boiling the worlds oceans comes to mind when we speak of the inherent energy in space and matter. The only real issue we have is understanding how to constructively interact with the various forms of energy to extract useful amounts of energy and in this respect our "science" has failed us miserably. What I did was look to nature directly, to make my own observations and not rely solely on others perspectives, I am a responsible adult after all and not a child who must always look to others for guidance and knowledge. I would agree most all that you have said makes sense from a conventional scientific point of view but if you did your homework you would understand that most of the people who have succeeded in FE technologies did not follow science they made their own.
Regards
AC

Poynty - just for the record.  I posted a reply here this morning and when I looked for it it was gone.  You need to check your system.  I also do not understand why every time I post I get taken right out the thread and have to find my way back so to speak.  It's really not user friendly for those of us whose eyesight is not that dependable.  To add to the general confusion I saw a tome of writing from MileHigh and when I looked again - it was barely a couple of paras.  ALSO.  I lost whole reams of 'chat' with MH this morning.  Please check on these things Poynty Point.  The system's not really working that well.  You'll need to fix it.

Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.08, 00:15:26
Rosemary:

Like I previously posted, enormous amounts of electrical energy are needed to produce metals like aluminum and magnesium.  So aluminum and magnesium are potential components of a battery, just like the components in a lead-acid battery.  In other words they contain potential chemical energy that can be transformed into electrical energy.  Pirate Bill keeps on thinking that this is all "free" perhaps because he is unaware that massive amounts of electricity were used to make the components of his "earth batteries."  The energy comes from the aluminum or magnesium smelter.  It takes so much electricity to produce aluminum that they sometimes build hydroelectric power plants that are dedicated to providing power for aluminum smelters.

If you were to take this argument to its logical conclusion - then - in terms of this a natural diamond would have less energy than an artificial diamond.  There is no more or less potential energy in a lump of pure copper than there is in a mixed aggregate of the same weight.  Nor is more potential energy added to the mix as a result of applied heat or galvanisation or anything else.  Mainstream claim that the energy from mass is from the atomic mass.  It's just that in a refined state - it's likely to be more useable as required. Bear in mind that the galvanic interaction does not compromise the mass of either the copper or the iron.  Theoretically, they'll be there - into infinity.  So.  Also theoretically - if there's an induction process going on in Laser's rig - which clearly there is, then that too could be there for infinity.

Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.08, 00:15:26In my experiment, when you take away the water, the chemical reaction stops dead, and then the battery can't output any power.  It's akin to draining the electrolyte out of a lead-acid battery.

But this argument also has to be seen in context.  Laser claims that the rotor can turn with distilled water.  If so, then there is no 'salt bridge' required for the 'galvanic effect' - which is battery related.  It probably just works better with the addition of salt.  Correspondingly, and confusingly, Bill claims that his rig works best if the sand is dry.  In which case one could perhaps argue a 'salt bridge'.  But in both instances one only needs to encase the entire coil in some kind of sealed condition - like a sealed battery - and either the slightly moist sand - or the slightly moist atmosphere around the coil - would make both the sand and/or the atmosphere - a third element in that rig.  Unlike a sealed battery it would never go flat.  That's got to be clean green - and virtually, dare I say it,  'perpetual'.

Also.  Regarding your applied math to this general effect - I think you're out by a tad.  If you take a battery say with a rating of 12 x ampere hours - then what the manufacturer is saying that it will deliver 12 amps for 1 hour or 1 amp for 12 hours - or whatever combination required between these numbers.  So.  12 amps x 12volts = 144 watts.  Then x 60 seconds, x 60 minutes x 1 hour =  518,400.00 joules. We can't yet quite rate Laser's rig - but - just to follow general protocol and your example of applying numbers here.  Let's say that the rotor is turning with a ridiculously conservative dissipation of 0.2 watts.  0.2 x 60 seconds x 60 minutes x 24 hours x 115 days = approximately 1,987,200.00 joules.  Technically it's alreadly out performed your standard lead acid battery.  AND it's NOT going flat.  AND that was an absurdly small wattage figure at kick off.

The truth of the matter is that the concept of a battery supply source also carries the concept of a depletable source of energy.  That much has yet to be proven in either Bill's rig or in Lasersabers.  Frankly I think they're both carving out some interesting history for us all.

Regards
Rosemary
edit.  Sorry the math was out.   I've amended. 

AC:

Quotesome day you may understand that it is not always the magnitude of the interactions but the quality of the interactions with nature that matter the most.

Can you explain what you mean by the "quality of the interactions with nature"?

Quoteif you did your homework you would understand that most of the people who have succeeded in FE technologies did not follow science they made their own.

Can I assume that you have "done your homework"?  Please cite some examples of you doing your homework and FE successes and "new sciences."

Rosemary:

QuoteIf you were to take this argument to its logical conclusion - then - in terms of this a natural diamond would have less energy than an artificial diamond.  There is no more or less potential energy in a lump of pure copper than there is in a mixed aggregate of the same weight.  Nor is more potential energy added to the mix as a result of applied heat or galvanisation or anything else.  Mainstream claim that the energy from mass is from the atomic mass.  It's just that in a refined state - it's likely to be more useable as required. Bear in mind that the galvanic interaction does not compromise the mass of either the copper or the iron.  Theoretically, they'll be there - into infinity.  So.  Also theoretically - if there's an induction process going on in Laser's rig - which clearly there is, then that too could be there for infinity.

I am only talking about chemical energy being converted into electrical energy.  I'm not talking about atomic energy.  The "induction process" in Lasersaber's setup is a direct result of the releasing of the chemical energy and it's finite.  It would be more appropriate to say that there is an inductance associated with the geometry of the battery.

QuoteLaser claims that the rotor can turn with distilled water.

Like I stated before, there is no distilled water.  You put distilled water into the galvanic battery and there are guaranteed to be impurities in the battery itself that dissolve into solution and render the water impure and capable of conducting electricity.

QuoteBill claims that his rig works best if the sand is dry.

Bill is not thinking this one through.  I once got into a discussion with him where he equated "dry soil" with days where it did not rain and "wet soil" with days that it rained.  This is over-simplistic to the extreme.  What Bill thinks is "dry" is in all likelihood not dry.  You can't forget the humidity in the air either.

QuoteUnlike a sealed battery it would never go flat.

When all of the metal corrodes away then the battery goes flat.  The energy comes from current produced by the corroding metal.

QuoteAlso.  Regarding your applied math to this general effect - I think you're out by a tad.  If you take a battery say with a rating of 12 x ampere hours - then what the manufacturer is saying that it will deliver 12 amps for 1 hour or 1 amp for 12 hours - or whatever combination required between these numbers.  So.  12 amps x 12volts = 144 watts.  Then x 60 seconds, x 60 minutes x 1 hour =  518,400.00 joules. We can't yet quite rate Laser's rig - but - just to follow general protocol and your example of applying numbers here.  Let's say that the rotor is turning with a ridiculously conservative dissipation of 0.2 watts.  0.2 x 60 seconds x 60 minutes x 24 hours x 115 days = approximately 1,987,200.00 joules.  Technically it's alreadly out performed your standard lead acid battery.  AND it's NOT going flat.  AND that was an absurdly small wattage figure at kick off.

You start with an estimated power consumption and then factor in the run time and arrive at an estimated amount of energy in the galvanic battery.  For a case like this you start with an estimate of the amount of energy in the battery and use the run time to estimate the power consumption.  So your calculations are correct but you are approaching the problem from the wrong direction.

You estimate almost two megajoules in the battery.  That's equivalent to a big beefy car battery, it does not make any sense.  I estimated between 2000 and 4000 joules in a hypothetical battery roughly equivalent to Lasersaber's galvanic battery.

For the power consumption of the rotor you estimated 0.2 watts.  That is way too high.  Working my calculations back from the estimated energy in the battery and a run time of more than one year, I estimated the power consumption of the motor between 5 and 50 microwatts.

It's not easy to estimate the power consumption of a given device.  You have to use your intuition and real-world experience.  You know the power consumptions of mundane things like toasters and hair dryers and TVs and transistor radios.  You can take a resistor and put exactly one watt of power through it and hold it between your thumb and index finger and feel what one watt of heat production feels like.  You can measure the power consumption of small circuits that you are working with on the bench, and so on.

The power consumption of Lasersaber's "motor" is comparable to the power consumption of an analog wristwatch powered by a battery, it's minuscule.

Lasersaber's motor demo is a nice small project and it's elegantly done.  It's a good exercise to understand how it is done and how it works.  Beyond that, there isn't much more to say.  There is no free energy "angle" associated with a galvanic battery.

MileHigh

This is a special posting to resolve an issue with AllCanadian:

AC, it's time for you to stop the patronizing tone when you make a posting to me.  Every single time you have posted to me you use this tone and it's time for it to stop.  In the past I have ignored your patronizing tone and argued the technical points.  I noted that you never responded to the technical points at all.

Do you remember your posting that started with this comment:

QuoteLOL, are you still trying to confuse everyone here?

I defended myself with respect to that comment and pursuant to a request I rebutted all of your technical points and you never replied.

Let's take a look at your last posting to me and I will quote all of the patronizing comments:

QuoteDo you think that if you buried two pieces of identical stainless steel in the ground that you could pick up energy from telluric currents or any energy for that matter?

Quotesome day you may understand that it is not always the magnitude of the interactions but the quality of the interactions with nature that matter the most.

QuoteI am a responsible adult after all and not a child who must always look to others for guidance and knowledge.

Quotebut if you did your homework you would understand

This little game is now officially over AC, and I am expecting your future posts to me will be devoid of this patronizing tone.

MileHigh

Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.08, 15:10:18
AC:

Can you explain what you mean by the "quality of the interactions with nature"?

Can I assume that you have "done your homework"?  Please cite some examples of you doing your homework and FE successes and "new sciences."

Schaumberg  
Dollard

Quote
Rosemary:

I am only talking about chemical energy being converted into electrical energy.  I'm not talking about atomic energy.  The "induction process" in Lasersaber's setup is a direct result of the releasing of the chemical energy and it's finite.  It would be more appropriate to say that there is an inductance associated with the geometry of the battery.

Like I stated before, there is no distilled water.  You put distilled water into the galvanic battery and there are guaranteed to be impurities in the battery itself that dissolve into solution and render the water impure and capable of conducting electricity.

Bill is not thinking this one through.  I once got into a discussion with him where he equated "dry soil" with days where it did not rain and "wet soil" with days that it rained.  This is over-simplistic to the extreme.  What Bill thinks is "dry" is in all likelihood not dry.  You can't forget the humidity in the air either.

When all of the metal corrodes away then the battery goes flat.  The energy comes from current produced by the corroding metal.

You start with an estimated power consumption and then factor in the run time and arrive at an estimated amount of energy in the galvanic battery.  For a case like this you start with an estimate of the amount of energy in the battery and use the run time to estimate the power consumption.  So your calculations are correct but you are approaching the problem from the wrong direction.

You estimate almost two megajoules in the battery.  That's equivalent to a big beefy car battery, it does not make any sense.  I estimated between 2000 and 4000 joules in a hypothetical battery roughly equivalent to Lasersaber's galvanic battery.

For the power consumption of the rotor you estimated 0.2 watts.  That is way too high.  Working my calculations back from the estimated energy in the battery and a run time of more than one year, I estimated the power consumption of the motor between 5 and 50 microwatts.

It's not easy to estimate the power consumption of a given device.  You have to use your intuition and real-world experience.  You know the power consumptions of mundane things like toasters and hair dryers and TVs and transistor radios.  You can take a resistor and put exactly one watt of power through it and hold it between your thumb and index finger and feel what one watt of heat production feels like.  You can measure the power consumption of small circuits that you are working with on the bench, and so on.

The power consumption of Lasersaber's "motor" is comparable to the power consumption of an analog wristwatch powered by a battery, it's minuscule.

Lasersaber's motor demo is a nice small project and it's elegantly done.  It's a good exercise to understand how it is done and how it works.  Beyond that, there isn't much more to say.  There is no free energy "angle" associated with a galvanic battery.

MileHigh

Keely
Rife
Reich
Dotto
More experience to gain from those rejected by mainstream.

It is quite obvious to identify the vectored individuals from the mainstream.

Giantkiller:

I posted the straight goods on galvanic batteries.  Dropping names in large fonts won't make a difference with respect to how a galvanic battery works.

Are you referring to me as an individual "vectored" from the mainstream?  I am only interested in the truth.

MileHigh

MC,
My reference to a 'vectored individual' is a label for someone who has the insight of foresight to see what the processes are that don't fit or are addressed by the status quo or academia. It is not a slander. The standard explanations hold no value as you, or I, or any others that have come through the mainstream. The textbook answers have no value here. There are a few of us that have gone beyond the normal with tests, reproductions, graphics, builds, research scientifically and not so scientifically. But the goal is to not only grasp the unforeseen but also not be daunted by lack of explanation. We have all suffered from this. I dropped those names, and yes Stanley Meyer also, because these men have done somthing when witnessed from which there is no returning 'To the box'. Or in others words 'Personally the shit has hit the fan and I cannot look back'. I myself, at this momnet have taken all the small steps I have encountered and are lumping the myriad into a few designs. These fit my ideas and others. One big think. This is the mental tool that has enabled many to progress beyond what they thought was normal. These men and women can no longer 'look back' for we know 'the truth is out there' and some have actually touched it.

The warning is 'If any of you are still embellished in academia you are in the wrong place here'. This is not a slam. You can not hope to be a good doctor if you are an professional plumber or what ever your choosing is.

This accomplishment is based of a future meeting of dreams, a nexis, not a previous graduation. The grasp needs to made in the next realm not the here and now.

I hope all understand. But this involvement here has been an acceptance of reality based on future dreams and desires I had when before I can remember.
This not grandstanding just pushing on.

I now have the magnet swipe, the stun gun approach, the HV approach, the resonant approach in my hands and realize that all coils are possible TPUs.

The HV comes directly from TTBrown and Podkletnov. Dropping names? No. They did it and we can too. Is not about what you say it is about but what do you believe and can you contribute? Standard diatribe always goes nowhere except into battle.

Now i have bought HV parts today, wire for leads, uwave diodes, high wattage resistors to add another known layer into the process.

With all respect, another person.

Giantkiller:

I understand your perspective and let me make a few comments.

QuoteThe textbook answers have no value here. There are a few of us that have gone beyond the normal with tests, reproductions, graphics, builds, research scientifically and not so scientifically. But the goal is to not only grasp the unforeseen but also not be daunted by lack of explanation.

These are things that have to be evaluated on a case by case basis.  If something is outside of the ordinary then it's logical to look at it from multiple perspectives.  What sometimes can appear to be outside the normal is in fact within the normal.  What can appear to not have an explanation can in fact have an explanation.  A case in point that was referenced recently was the joule thief.  A single AA cell can only light a single LED.  Connect that AA cell to a joule thief, and it can light one, 10, 25, or 50 LEDs to the same brightness.  Many people would consider this to be outside of the ordinary, but in fact it isn't.  If some of those people learn why, that gives them more understanding so that they can continue researching with a bit more knowledge under their belts.

So textbooks can be of great value, they represent accumulated knowledge gained from decades and decades of research!

Part of the fun is to be daunted by the lack of an explanation, for sure.  Sticking with my example, once you understand how a joule thief works, that might help you figure out how some other unexplained phenomenon works.

QuoteI now have the magnet swipe, the stun gun approach, the HV approach, the resonant approach in my hands and realize that all coils are possible TPUs

I know, many free energy experimenters believe that coils can be the key to creating over unity.  Like I said, this can be evaluated on a case by case basis.  Knowing how to make measurements is a critical issue.  I personally don't believe that coils can be configured to create over unity.  However, if you or anyone can make a case and show how you make your measurements, you might be able to convince me.  To put it in context, I am not likely to follow any TPU threads.  I would still be interested in the final results.  So if six months from now you have a TPU-based experiment where you claim over unity, it would be very interesting to see the data.  Of course many people may scrutinize that data and challenge your results.  I know that can be tough and stressful at times, but ultimately it's the right way to go.  If your experiment passes through a vetting process from your peers, your case is that much stronger.

You should try to look at this vetting process, were indeed you may be challenged by people that cite "textbook" explanations as something positive.  That is just as much a contribution to your project as anything else.  It would be unwise to "filter" input so that you only listen to people that you think will agree with you.  You will only come out stronger if you can address questions about your project from all angles.

MileHigh

MileHigh.  I still don't get it.  If there are ions - as has been argued - in the iron and copper - and if these are responsible for the 'battery' effect and for an electrolytic action - then surely one would need to firstly establish that the ions are, indeed there, and then measure some sort of change to those ions to justify a transfer of energy?  - if indeed it's a battery?  That would be really difficult to establish.  At this stage, as I see it, there's an assumption that ions are responsible.  Surely?  Effectively one could never argue the following statement.  Nor could you prove it.  

Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.08, 15:10:18Like I stated before, there is no distilled water.  You put distilled water into the galvanic battery and there are guaranteed to be impurities in the battery itself that dissolve into solution and render the water impure and capable of conducting electricity.

Not sure of the relevance to the 'water' being there or not.  I still don't see which ions are doing what to what moisture that you claim makes it a battery.   And if it is all expected to 'rust away' then actually - this is not evident anywhere.  Not in Bill's earth battery nor in Laser's windings.  I agree that in the event that it does rust - then it could be deemed to be a battery.  The only evidence of corrosion has been to the zinc coating on the wire.

Regarding the calculations - you're right about the wattage related to a typical battery.  I'm actually going to see if I can get actual numbers - either from Lasersaber or from Bill.  The point is that there's the switching of two reed switches as well as the perpetual turning of that rotor.  If we can establish the Ohmage of the wires - and the general energies required for working those switches - then maybe we can hone in on some actual numbers.  I'm going to see what I can find.

Where do I find that point you made about electric current feeds preventing rust on oil rig constructions?  I'd be quite keen on finding out more here.  Can you oblige MH?

Kindest regards,
Rosemary

Hi Rosemary,

For starters, I am not building this stuff, so I don't have a need to do the research online or heaven forbid, in books.  I don't pretend to be an expert in this stuff, I am just using my common sense.  In high school in chemistry class they must have taught me about the galvanic corrosion of metals.

The people that actually build the stuff should be doing the real research.  They should be searching on terms like "galvanic current" and "galvanic corrosion of metals" etc, etc.  I honestly get the feeling that some of them don't do the research.  If they spent two day's worth of searching and reading then they would know what they were talking about.

Here's something that I found that's interesting:

QuoteAn electrolyte is simply an electrically conducting fluid. Almost any fluid falls into this category, with distilled water as an exception. Even rain water is likely to become sufficiently conducting after contact with common environmental contaminants. If the conductivity of the liquid is high (a common example is  sea water) the galvanic corrosion of the less noble metal will be spread over a larger area; in low conductivity liquids the corrosion will be localised to the part of the less noble metal near to the junction.

Another one:

QuoteMetals (including alloys) can be arranged in a galvanic series  representing the potential they develop in a given electrolyte against a standard reference electrode. The relative position of two metals on such a series gives a good indication of which metal is more likely to corrode more quickly. However, other factors such as water aeration and flow rate can influence the process markedly.

Another one:

QuoteMagnesium is a lightweight alloy with a long history and a huge potential which is nevertheless plagued with a low
corrosion resistance, leading to relatively high dissolution rates depending on the alloy and the aggressiveness of the
environment.

Here is link explaining how two dissimilar metals buried in the ground will corrode due to galvanic action:

http://www.westcoastcorrosion.com/Papers/Why%20Metals%20Corrode.pdf (http://www.westcoastcorrosion.com/Papers/Why%20Metals%20Corrode.pdf)

Quoting Pirate Bill:

QuoteThis is the same as Milehigh's argument.  If he knew anything at all about business, he would know that to produce my magnesium block, if it took a hoover dam type project to do so then I believe I would have paid a little more than $30 for it.  If he is claiming that the energy (potential energy) is stored in these materials well, he is correct but then Einstein beat him to that idea many years ago.  Potential energy is inherent in ALL matter. E=mc squared and all that.

Bill is showing off his great intellect here, confusing chemical energy with atomic energy.  Duh!?  Bill has been playing with his joule thieves now for years, but if you asked him how a joule thief can light up 10 LEDs I bet you he would not be able to answer you.  If you asked him what's going on when you go from lighting 10 LEDs to lighting 20 LEDs at the same apparent brightness with his joule thief I bet you he would not be able to answer you.

"If he knew anything at all about business" - Who is Bill to talk about my business acumen?  I have never discussed business with Bill.  That's just bullshit.

For your answer, do a search on something like "preventing galvanic corrosion of oil rig platforms" or something like that.  I am not going to do the work for you.

Quoteone would need to firstly establish that the ions are, indeed there, and then measure some sort of change to those ions to justify a transfer of energy?

QuoteGalvanic corrosion is an electrochemical process in which one metal corrodes preferentially to another when both metals are in electrical contact and immersed in an electrolyte. Conversely, a galvanic reaction is exploited in primary batteries to generate a voltage. A common example is the carbon-zinc cell where the zinc corrodes preferentially to produce a current. The lemon battery is another simple example of how dissimilar metals react to produce an electric current.

When two or more different sorts of metal come into contact in the presence of an electrolyte a galvanic couple is set up as different metals have different electrode potentials. The electrolyte provides a means for ion migration whereby metallic ions can move from the anode to the cathode. This leads to the anodic metal corroding more quickly than it otherwise would; the corrosion of the cathodic metal is retarded even to the point of stopping. The presence of electrolyte and a conducting path between the metals may cause corrosion where otherwise neither metal alone would have corroded.

So from my perspective it's the same old story.  The evidence is everywhere explaining how metals corrode due to galvanic current action.  Yet the forum members always go for the "alternative" explanation.  Hey!  That has "edge" and they can have fun dreaming up all sorts of creative explanations for mundane things that are well understood.  You state that Bill does not see any corrosion on his metals.  That's meaningless.  It all depends on how much they have corroded.  Did he try looking for corrosion under a microscope?  I doubt it.  The huge mistake being made is taking anecdotal evidence as fact.

I am not an expert on this stuff and will never be an expert.  Therefore I may be wrong in some of my statements,  but the main principles are correct.  If I played with earth batteries like Pirate Bill and made batteries with dissimilar metals like Lasersaber and I was truly interested in the process then I sure as hell would really know what I was talking about right down to the formulas for the chemical reactions that release the metallic ions.

MileHigh

Just one more comment about this:

http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/Charts/galvanic-series.html (http://www.mcnallyinstitute.com/Charts/galvanic-series.html)

QuoteGALVANIC SERIES OF METALS AND ALLOYS

CORRODED END ( ANODIC OR LEAST NOBLE)

MAGNESIUM
MAGNESIUM ALLOYS
ZINC
ALUMINUM 5052, 3004, 3003, 1100, 6053
CADMIUM
ALUMINUM 2117, 2017, 2024
MILD STEEL (1018), WROUGHT IRON
CAST IRON, LOW ALLOY HIGH STRENGTH STEEL
CHROME IRON (ACTIVE)
STAINLESS STEEL, 430 SERIES (ACTIVE)
302, 303, 321, 347, 410,416, STAINLESS STEEL (ACTIVE)
NI - RESIST
316, 317, STAINLESS STEEL (ACTIVE)
CARPENTER 20CB-3 STAINLESS (ACTIVE)
ALUMINUM BRONZE (CA 687)
HASTELLOY C (ACTIVE) INCONEL 625 (ACTIVE) TITANIUM (ACTIVE)
LEAD - TIN SOLDERS
LEAD
TIN
INCONEL 600 (ACTIVE)
NICKEL (ACTIVE)
60 NI-15 CR (ACTIVE)
80 NI-20 CR (ACTIVE)
HASTELLOY B (ACTIVE)
BRASSES
COPPER (CA102)
MANGANESE BRONZE (CA 675), TIN BRONZE (CA903, 905)
SILICONE BRONZE
NICKEL SILVER
COPPER - NICKEL ALLOY 90-10
COPPER - NICKEL ALLOY 80-20
430 STAINLESS STEEL
NICKEL, ALUMINUM, BRONZE (CA 630, 632)
MONEL 400, K500
SILVER SOLDER
NICKEL (PASSIVE)
60 NI- 15 CR (PASSIVE)
INCONEL 600 (PASSIVE)
80 NI- 20 CR (PASSIVE)
CHROME IRON (PASSIVE)
302, 303, 304, 321, 347, STAINLESS STEEL (PASSIVE)
316, 317, STAINLESS STEEL (PASSIVE)
CARPENTER 20 CB-3 STAINLESS (PASSIVE), INCOLOY 825NICKEL - MOLYBDEUM - CHROMIUM - IRON ALLOY (PASSIVE)
SILVER
TITANIUM (PASS.) HASTELLOY C & C276 (PASSIVE), INCONEL 625(PASS.)
GRAPHITE
ZIRCONIUM
GOLD
PLATINUM
PROTECTED END (CATHODIC OR MOST NOBLE)

So the metals towards the anodic end are the ones that will corrode and the metals at the cathodic end are the ones that won't corrode when you pair them up in an earth battery or make a Lasersaber type battery cell.

I think a typical earth battery is made with magnesium and graphite.  You can see how these two elements are at opposite ends of the galvanic series.  Thus between them they produce a high electro-potential difference and hence are good for making galvanic batteries.  The magnesium will corrode and the graphite won't corrode.

The most likely reason that Bill does not see any noticeable corrosion when he looks at his magnesium is because the current/energy consumption due to the joule thief is minuscule, and therefore the corrosion is minuscule.  Again, you are making the mistake of taking anecdotal evidence as fact, seemingly ignoring the fact that the multi-billion dollar metals industry has been researching these issues for more than 100 years.

MileHigh

A little message to Wilby:

Quoteindeed! i was impressed by his claim that "A single  AA cell can only light a single LED"... i guess if he ever came down from his ivory tower of wiki gleaned knowledge and did some bench work, he would know that it won't.

I added your emphasis.  I guess it all depends on which LED you are talking about, doesn't it?  I am pretty sure that a vanilla red LED has a forward operating point voltage of about 0.6 volts, just like a vanilla diode.  But different flavours of more modern white LEDs have higher forward voltages.  I believe that they can vary somewhere between 1.5 volts and 2.5 volts.  I haven't been reading my LED spec sheets on the DigiKey web site recently, sorry.

So, Wilby, I look forward to seeing you post a clarification/retraction on the OU JT thread where you admit that you were incorrectly assuming that everybody works with LEDs that have a higher forward operating voltage than 1.5 volts when in fact there are LEDs with forward operating voltages that are less than 1.5 volts.

MileHigh

P.S.:  I did a quick search and now realize that most LEDs have a forward operating voltage that is above 1.5 volts.  However, there are some LEDs with forward voltages that are less than 1.5 volts.  So my memory was faulty and Wilby gets to declare a partial victory.

MH, white LED's run about 4 volts, but even at that you can run more then 1 LED on an AA battery. I designed a circuit years years ago that ran 4 white leds from 1 AA cell and got about 20 hours battery life from it.

Aside from the balancing of details I see the relevance of the of the Joule thief. It being a mag amp then with the TPU we're creating a virtual core mag field and manipulating that. If the horizontal core and a control coil are biased/magnetized then coupling at 90 degrees is easy. And that field can be manipulated. Magnacoaster does it on a linear platform the TPU is a ring platform, inherent feedback.

Giantkiller:

If you mean a magnetic amplifier like this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_amplifier (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_amplifier)

A joule thief is not a magnetic amplifier.  It's a simple timing circuit that energizes an inductor and then discharges it through a diode into a load.

MileHigh

Hello MileHigh.  I've looked up that 'what prevents oil rig constructions from corrosion?' and got a whole lot of adverts for vaseline or somesuch together with the galvanisation of various 'noble?' metals - those towards the cathode side of that chart of yours.  You see I study your links and references.  LOL.   Many thanks for the input.  Golly.  It's actually a waste of time looking things up unless WIKI obliges.  But for now I'll assume that it's some kind of current flow - and I'll go further and propose that this is the thing that prevents the rusting on Bill's and Laser's rigs.

Now.  To get back to that interminable quarrel regarding the actual 'thing' that laser's rig is.  If, as it seems, the galvanic effect also requires the systematic corrosion of the materials that are employed - then we've got an anomaly.  Neither laser's rig nor Bill's is corroding. So.  The question, as Bill rightly points out - is what is expended in this generation of current flow?  And it seems that NOTHING is being expended.  It's no good saying that moisture in the air is responsible or even ions in the water.  Bill's rig is buried - and it's debated that it requires moisture at all.  And laser reckons he can get the rotor to turn using distilled water.  Your argument that the material first needs to be studied under a microscope or spectroscope (forget which) is good - but somewhat out of reach of the pockets of most of us experimentalists.  I would have thought that a superficial observation - at this stage - would be enough.

So.  The actual thing is this.  Perhaps we should all defer our conclusions to the efficacy of these devices until we know some of these facts.  And I'll try and get some actual numbers together on the actual wattage dissipated on Laser's rig.  And we could also then leave that 'definition' as to whether this is a battery or a generator - until we know these things.  But I'm inclined to agree with you.  It all needs more careful analysis.  Just one thing.  My intention is to prove this by building a rig myself and NOT using water.  And I put it to you that in the unlikely event that it 'turns' a rotor without the addition of water of any sort - then that will be conclusive proof that it's a generator.  I'm NOT talking continual turn.  I'll be happy with a really small spin. 

Regards
Rosemary

This is my last attempt in regards to the Joule Thief and the magamp:
The two devices are named differently. The central object is a ferrite ring with two windings. Can we not create a core using biased copper?

Otherwise, I guess this is difficult.

Quote from: giantkiller on 2010.10.10, 04:33:50
This is my last attempt in regards to the Joule Thief and the magamp:
The two devices are named differently. The central object is a ferrite ring with two windings. Can we not create a core using biased copper?

Otherwise, I guess this is difficult.

Hello Giantkiller.  I love your name.  Not sure if you kill giants or if you're the giant and just kill things.  LOL.  Either way it's impressive.

I'm afraid I don't understand your posts.  I just know that somehow, we're on the same page.  You use acronyms.  I had to look up TPU which apparently stands for Transistor processing unit - or somesuch.  Is that a switch?  HV is what?  High voltage?  And amp - I thought was current but MileHigh referred to amplifier.  You see the problem?  You guys are at a rarefied intellectual reach and I'm your average untrained plodder. 

So.  I'm also not sure what your point is here?  I wonder if you perhaps have the time to explain things more simply.  I actually don't understand.  But if you're too busy - or couldn't be bothered - then that's fine.  Just know that I LOVE the fact that you're also fighting mainstream.  It's my full time obsession. 

Kindest regards,
Rosemary

Rosemary:

Here is a link explaining how you can use electric currents to prevent corrosion:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathodic_protection (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cathodic_protection)

QuoteFor larger structures, galvanic anodes cannot economically deliver enough current to provide complete protection. Impressed current cathodic protection (ICCP) systems use anodes connected to a DC power source (a cathodic protection rectifier). Anodes for ICCP systems are tubular and solid rod shapes or continuous ribbons of various specialized materials. These include high silicon cast iron, graphite, mixed metal oxide, platinum and niobium coated wire and others.

Quoteand I'll go further and propose that this is the thing that prevents the rusting on Bill's and Laser's rigs.

You're not getting it.  When the current flows one way, the metal corrodes.  When the current flows the other way the metal doesn't corrode.  For a oil rig platform, you force the current to flow in the direction that prevents corrosion.  With an earth battery, the magnesium corrodes by definition.

The simple test for Bill's or Laser's rigs is to do a control experiment where you have rigs where the current flow is HIGH.  In both of their rigs the current flow is intentionally minuscule.  Do a high current test with a robust electrolyte and look for corrosion like that.

QuoteThe question, as Bill rightly points out - is what is expended in this generation of current flow?

The pdf document I linked to in a previous post explains all of that quite clearly.  There is inherent chemical energy in the ordered arrangement of the metal atoms that is liberated when they oxidize, which is what I have been saying all along.  The entropy of the system increases and electrical and probably heat energy is given off in the process.  The current flow is a result of the oxidation, but as the pdf document I linked to says, it's like the chicken and the egg.

QuoteIt's no good saying that moisture in the air is responsible or even ions in the water.  Bill's rig is buried - and it's debated that it requires moisture at all.  And laser reckons he can get the rotor to turn using distilled water.

I have already told you my take on that.  Bill is wrong and it's literally impossible for one of Lasersaber's batteries to contain pure distilled water.  You have to understand that the moment the distilled water enters his battery it starts to dissolve impurities into solution.  Water is a good solvent.

Quotewhether this is a battery or a generator

A generator from what, Rosemary?  The invisible polka-dot genie?  You are back to speculating that these simple galvanic batteries generate electricity out of "nothingness," or some "unknown" source, just like Steorn allege that they create magical energy from nothingness.

All of you that are making these wild speculations should try to collectively turn your hypothesis upside-down, which in reality would mean that you would be turning it right-side up.  Start with the assumption that it is a galvanic battery, and then see if you can come up with any alternative explanations.

Anyway, I am done with this issue.  The suggestion for you guys and gals on OU is to think outside of the box, because you are stuck inside an "alternative" box.  I have proposed some simple control tests, and congratulate you for wanting to try to measure the power output from Lasersaber's battery.  That will not be an easy thing to do at all.  Assuming that you can do that, the next logical step is to do the research to see how much metal should be consumed after say, six months of running the device.  It could be a very interesting exercise.  You have to calculate how much metal should corrode, otherwise there is no point in making the power measurement.

With respect to those earth batteries, it's the same story.  They are simply galvanic batteries and nothing more.  I know that supposedly Nathan Stubblefield made an extensive earth battery setup in the area around his house and that gave him free power to run all of his electrical appliances.  If I recall correctly this was done in the late 19th century or the very early 20th century.  That was the era of the "BIG LIE" because the public was not as cynical or as well informed or educated, especially with respect to scientific matters.  It was the era of Yellow journalism.  As far as I am concerned the whole Nathan Stubblefield story is pure fabrication, a LIE.  The evidence is right there if you want to open your eyes and look at it.  You can only get minuscule amounts of power from a typical earth battery setup, and if you do research on telluric currents you will conclude that you can't possibly use them as a power source.  You are not going to bury tens of thousands of dollars worth of corroding metal in a 10-acre farmer's field so that you can make a pot of hot water on your electric stove.  It was ridiculous then and it's even more ridiculous now.

Good luck to the OU group, this is where I jump off the train.

MileHigh

MileHigh - you were never on the train.  You're standing on the platform and looking the other way.  And you've blocked your ears so you don't hear when that train comes.  You're impossibly, hopelessly hopeless. 

I have no idea YET whether the Nathan Stubblefield Coil can be considered to be a battery or an inductor.  But here's what I DO know.  Our own device showed an unarguable result at COP >17.  Glen's device showed COP>7.  Those two facts I KNOW.  I have all the empirical evidence that I or any reasonable scientist requires.  I KNOW that both Glen's and my device showed repeated performance levels where more energy was returned to the battery than was ever supplied.  I KNOW that dark energy has been postulated, and subsequently proved and MEASURED using gravitational lensing.  I KNOW that Einstein was quite simply wrong if and when it was proposed that NOTHING could exceed light speed.  YET the vast majority debate this - on a basis of 'probability' for God's sake.  I also KNOW that current flow DOES NOT comprise the flow of electrons. Therefore have I absolutely NO FAITH in conventional physics.  They have entirely discounted these things that I KNOW. 

I also KNOW that to get these facts to mainstream has been the most extraordinary challenge.  It is like Drake trying to point an entire crew to a new coastline - when they only see ocean.  I guess, just as I KNOW these things you KNOW that they're not true.  I have no idea what to do with this impasse.  But it's precisely because I have lost my faith with mainstream objectivity that I'm more incline to check my own observations.  I am delighted to learn that it's possible to generate energy from what I never understood but is apparently well known in the galvanic effect.  It's opened whole new chapters for me.  It seems to fall in - ever more nicely - with the concept that current flow is the result of energy inside circuit material.  I've had many a discussion with experts who've explained that this is impossible.  If so - then they've been arguing against the evidence that our chemists are well aware of.  Not only that - but it also seems that each discipline seems to carry knowledge that overlap and contradict other disciplines.  Astrophysicists know things that theoretical physicists dispute.  Chemists know things that electrical engineers refute.  And so it goes.  Not even mainstream 'stick' to one story.  It's all a MESS.  So why get exasperated when those like minded find the need to 'check the facts for themselves'. 

Anyway it's early morning at your end of the world and I suspect that all this has given you another bad night - especially if you're anything like me.  Go and make some coffee and then try and be more tolerant of us mere mortals.

Regards,
Rosemary

Quote from: giantkiller on 2010.10.10, 04:33:50
This is my last attempt in regards to the Joule Thief and the magamp:
The two devices are named differently. The central object is a ferrite ring with two windings. Can we not create a core using biased copper?

Otherwise, I guess this is difficult.

GK,

It is my understanding that a magamp utilizes a saturable ferromagnetic core, and as such creates large swings in the core permeability. I am not certain if a JT does this, or if all JT's do this.

Can we create a core using biased copper?

Not if the purpose of the core is to tighten the magnetic coupling between two or more core windings or to increase the inductance of a winding. It would also not work in creating a saturable reactor effect, if that is a requirement.

A biased copper core will allow 90º coupling, but the coupling coefficient will be that of an air-core.

My .02 anyway.

.99

Rose,

Corrosion and Cathodic Protection are electro-chemical processes that involve electron and iron ion (for eg.) migration. If the iron structure is higher in potential with reference to its surroundings, then electrons and iron ions will migrate away from the structure, which means it corrodes.

The process can be reversed so to speak by impressing a DC current onto the metal structure in such a way that electrons migrate to the structure, rather than away from it, and the sacrificial anode (buried in the ground) corrodes instead.

If current does not comprise the flow of electrons, then you have a couple centuries of chemical sciences theory to change and the onus is on you to come up with an explanation for how electro-chemistry works in reality.

This seems like a good reference on CP. (http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/cathodic_protection.pdf)

.99

Well sed!

Only those armed with knowledge who have left the bastions of dogmatic hierarchy still have large inspirations and dreams of how the future, not just might be, but will be despite those that clutch the darkness in the dungeons of ignorance.

I applaud your statements for they show hope and progression towards a definable goal even though some parameters are not excepted across certain thick boundaries. To the victors go the spoils, to the consumers go the debts.

No disrespect meant in any any way. Just recalling history. Do we have to live it again? Is the lack of change our only hope to change(i.e insanity)?

Quote from: aetherevarising on 2010.10.10, 11:55:28
MileHigh - you were never on the train.  You're standing on the platform and looking the other way.  And you've blocked your ears so you don't hear when that train comes.  You're impossibly, hopelessly hopeless. 

I have no idea YET whether the Nathan Stubblefield Coil can be considered to be a battery or an inductor.  But here's what I DO know.  Our own device showed an unarguable result at COP >17.  Glen's device showed COP>7.  Those two facts I KNOW.  I have all the empirical evidence that I or any reasonable scientist requires.  I KNOW that both Glen's and my device showed repeated performance levels where more energy was returned to the battery than was ever supplied.  I KNOW that dark energy has been postulated, and subsequently proved and MEASURED using gravitational lensing.  I KNOW that Einstein was quite simply wrong if and when it was proposed that NOTHING could exceed light speed.  YET the vast majority debate this - on a basis of 'probability' for God's sake.  I also KNOW that current flow DOES NOT comprise the flow of electrons. Therefore have I absolutely NO FAITH in conventional physics.  They have entirely discounted these things that I KNOW. 

I also KNOW that to get these facts to mainstream has been the most extraordinary challenge.  It is like Drake trying to point an entire crew to a new coastline - when they only see ocean.  I guess, just as I KNOW these things you KNOW that they're not true.  I have no idea what to do with this impasse.  But it's precisely because I have lost my faith with mainstream objectivity that I'm more incline to check my own observations.  I am delighted to learn that it's possible to generate energy from what I never understood but is apparently well known in the galvanic effect.  It's opened whole new chapters for me.  It seems to fall in - ever more nicely - with the concept that current flow is the result of energy inside circuit material.  I've had many a discussion with experts who've explained that this is impossible.  If so - then they've been arguing against the evidence that our chemists are well aware of.  Not only that - but it also seems that each discipline seems to carry knowledge that overlap and contradict other disciplines.  Astrophysicists know things that theoretical physicists dispute.  Chemists know things that electrical engineers refute.  And so it goes.  Not even mainstream 'stick' to one story.  It's all a MESS.  So why get exasperated when those like minded find the need to 'check the facts for themselves'. 

Anyway it's early morning at your end of the world and I suspect that all this has given you another bad night - especially if you're anything like me.  Go and make some coffee and then try and be more tolerant of us mere mortals.

Regards,
Rosemary

Quote from: Grumpy on 2010.06.15, 20:53:00
as simple as it gets: (see attached) wind this up and give it a go, got to have the pulses tho!

Lot more here than meets the eye, but this is a good start for anyone.   OU straight out of the gate! (not much ok, but beter than a poke in your eye with a stick...)

Grumpy,

Could you please go back and re-upload the png file at this post? It seems damaged and won't open.

Thanks,
.99

Quote from: poynt99 on 2010.10.10, 13:03:54
A biased copper core will allow 90º coupling, but the coupling coefficient will be that of an air-core.

That cannot be so. The simple fact that there is a copper core in proximity of the coil will definitely change the coupling fromthat of air core because now there is new mass near the core that can act as a bouncing board for the coils emissions back and forth. Same thing happens when you introduce an iron core laminate inside the coil. Things tighten up and start bouncing around. So it will with the copper core.

The problem remains that we are, even with all this technological advancement, still at the infant stage of understanding what electricity and magnetism really consists of.

I asked this question in the shout out about a week ago.

Prove to me that a magnet has two magnetic fields, one that exits the top of one end and the other that enters the bottom of the other end. Just prove this one question. Fact is no one can prove it, but everyone believes it is true. You can't prove it with a compass, or iron powder, or a TV screen reflection of the field. So how did they prove this. Or is this just a belief? So does believing it is true make it true?

This one question I have asked myself for a long time now and I have muddled this question from all angles and only one reasoning makes sense the most and that is, NO, one does not leave and one does not enter the magnet. This one realization has opened up a whole new world of observations about atoms, electricity, magnetism, and the forces involved in all our relations with the devices we are using. For me, now, this is as clear as how SM made his videos. I can now see what is happening and why things happen the way they do. It has nothing to do with what you have been taught in school electronics or physics. We are all on the wrong track to start with. I will have to put this in writing in a long form that people will understand. It may take 10 or 20 pages to get this information across so even the lowest level can understand it as concretely as I can now see it. We are all on the wrong track and thinking the way we do will only lead to dead ends and closed systems. The only logical solution is to have a new look or vision of what this is and work towards it from that perspective. One day, the people of the world had to decide if the world was flat or round. We are again at this juncture but now it is all about atoms, electrons, magnetism, electricity, fields, induction, mass. black holes, etc.

The CERN collidor supposedly smashes atoms/electrons together to simulate the big bang. That is total bullshit. We may as well return to the times were bleeding people was the only way to fight a fever.

Rosemary:

If you just take a step back, you might see that I am just looking at the evidence and trying to discern what's really going on.  You are very firmly entrenched in your beliefs and certainly a lot of them go against mainstream.  If you can come up with some hard evidence to back up your theories, and this is eventually accepted within the scientific community as a whole then things would be a different story.  The beauty about science is that it evolves and grows, it's not nearly as rigid as you like to indicate.  And no, I am not saying that if you get mainstream acceptance I will then agree with your theories like a programmable sheep, I would have to understand them and agree with them for myself.

Look at the example of the LASER.  In the 30s, 40s, and 50s I bet you a lot of mainstream scientists doubted they could be created.  In 1960 the first LASER was developed and now you can practically find a LASER in a Cracker Jack box.

Watsup:

About a month ago myself, Poynt, and Grumpy had a brief but interesting conversation about magnetic fields.  The point discussed was that in fact a magnet does not really have two magnetic fields.  There is no such thing as "north" and "south."  Those are just naming conventions that make it easier for us to talk about magnetic fields.  They only exist on paper.  Magnetic field lines travel in closed loops around wires carrying current or in closed loops through magnetic dipoles.  You can't forget that a magnetic dipole is just like a loop of wire carrying current, so you are back to the simple definition; closed loops around "wires" carrying current.  Their is no "north" or "south" just like there is no start or end to a circle.

Quotecore that can act as a bouncing board for the coils emissions back and forth

You may want to do some research about this.  The visualization that I use is that a magnetic core is like a low valued resistor that lets current flow where the current is the magnetic flux.  Air and copper are like high-valued resistors that restrict the current flow.  The permeability of the material is what determines the "resistance."  There is no "bouncing" going on in what you are trying to visualize, more like you are looking for a path for the "current" of magnetic flux to flow.  If the path has an obstacle, then not much magnetic flux flows, if there is no obstacle then a lot of magnetic flux flows.  That's why a toroidal core gives you such a high inductance and makes for such a great transformer, the magnetic flux has a clear path to flow with no obstacles in the way.  If you cut a radial slice out of the toroid, then the there is an obstacle in the path and the inductance drops dramatically.

MileHigh

Quote from: poynt99 on 2010.10.10, 13:51:46
If current does not comprise the flow of electrons, then you have a couple centuries of chemical sciences theory to change and the onus is on you to come up with an explanation for how electro-chemistry works in reality.

This seems like a good reference on CP. (http://www.npl.co.uk/upload/pdf/cathodic_protection.pdf)

.99

I've argued the electron issue ad nauseum.  And I'm reasonably certain you've read it but just wont engage.  But that's your right.  But I really need to own up to knowing nothing about the chemical interaction on these galvanic effects.  I really do need to do more homework.  But it's something that I'll work on.  That link was hopeless.  It won't 'open' - but thanks for trying.

Kindest regards,
Rosemary

Quote from: giantkiller on 2010.10.10, 14:37:08
Well sed!

Only those armed with knowledge who have left the bastions of dogmatic hierarchy still have large inspirations and dreams of how the future, not just might be, but will be despite those that clutch the darkness in the dungeons of ignorance.

I applaud your statements for they show hope and progression towards a definable goal even though some parameters are not excepted across certain thick boundaries. To the victors go the spoils, to the consumers go the debts.

No disrespect meant in any any way. Just recalling history. Do we have to live it again? Is the lack of change our only hope to change(i.e insanity)?

;D  I knew we were kindred spirits here Giantkiller. 

link works ok for me Rose

Hello

the pictures darkspeed posted on page 3 are not available any more.
Can anyone help?

Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.10, 15:38:23
Watsup:
About a month ago myself, Poynt, and Grumpy had a brief but interesting conversation about magnetic fields.  The point discussed was that in fact a magnet does not really have two magnetic fields.  There is no such thing as "north" and "south."  Those are just naming conventions that make it easier for us to talk about magnetic fields.  They only exist on paper.  Magnetic field lines travel in closed loops around wires carrying current or in closed loops through magnetic dipoles.  You can't forget that a magnetic dipole is just like a loop of wire carrying current, so you are back to the simple definition; closed loops around "wires" carrying current.  Their is no "north" or "south" just like there is no start or end to a circle.

Well, good no North or South but what about the field. Does it come out on end and enter the other end and if so, how was this ever proven with all the science and technology we have at Mans' disposal, how is it proven?

Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.10, 15:38:23
You may want to do some research about this.  The visualization that I use is that a magnetic core is like a low valued resistor that lets current flow where the current is the magnetic flux.  Air and copper are like high-valued resistors that restrict the current flow.  The permeability of the material is what determines the "resistance."  There is no "bouncing" going on in what you are trying to visualize, more like you are looking for a path for the "current" of magnetic flux to flow.  If the path has an obstacle, then not much magnetic flux flows, if there is no obstacle then a lot of magnetic flux flows.  That's why a toroidal core gives you such a high inductance and makes for such a great transformer, the magnetic flux has a clear path to flow with no obstacles in the way.  If you cut a radial slice out of the toroid, then the there is an obstacle in the path and the inductance drops dramatically.
MileHigh

What is the difference between a magnetizable core or a copper core? As soon as the impulse coil is energized and imparts to the core, that core can then impart to a second coil. But what the core imparts to the second coil also HAS TO impart back to the impulse coil because the impulse coil and the secondary coil are on the same core. For the core there is no differentiation possible. It can receive from one but will always give back to both. So how did the core impart back to the impulse coil. Same way it imparted to the secondary. This is the "bouncing around" between the impulse coil and the core. Regardless of iron laminate, copper core, mineralized water rust core or immersion, as long as there are other atoms with electrons near the impulse coil, you will get "bounce back". While one may bounce back more then another mass or material is besides the point.

Rosemary:

Just a little "post debate" comment or two for your consideration:

QuoteI am delighted to learn that it's possible to generate energy from what I never understood but is apparently well known in the galvanic effect.  It's opened whole new chapters for me.  It seems to fall in - ever more nicely - with the concept that current flow is the result of energy inside circuit material.

What you might not realize is that's what a standard lead-acid battery is.  It's what you have been working with the whole time.  If you can get access to the paper that Poynt linked to there are some sample chemical equations that show you the real chemical reactions that create current flow from the corrosion of metal inside a battery and the reverse chemical reactions that turn the current flow back into the base metal.

When people talk about a battery being charged by "resonance" or that "voltage alone induces a battery to charge itself with almost no current" they have been misled by the likes of Bedini and Bearden and others.  It can be alleged that they do this to exploit people for their personal financial gain.  A battery demonstrates the principle of the conservation of energy.  You can do tests and make precise measurements to confirm this in a chemistry lab.

MileHigh

Hi MileHigh.  I actually know about the chemical process in the standard lead/acid.  I was ably guided into this by Farrah.  Where has she gone?  Another victim of that insidious propagandising at EF.com?  In any event.  What I'm now trying to get my head around is the process of zinc corrosion with salt.  But I'm finding some things on this that I can also read - thank God.

I've sacrificed a perfectly good game of bridge to get my head around this.  I won't be able to do much tomorrow and time as ever, is 'fleeting'.  But the good news is that I'm getting some answers.

Peterae - it's no good telling me you can open what I cannot.  I get a small little block of something that I simply cannot recognise.  I can't make it bigger - I cant read any text.  And when I use that little + button I simply get a microscopic view of a truncated picture of something entirely indecipherable.  I wish people would give links that are easy to open.   But MileHigh's links work well and I can obviously read his direct references.  By the way.  Can you sort out the problem of losing posts when they're posted.  I have to go back to the email notice to get back into the link - or page through a whole lot of references until I see my name.  It's really not user friendly.  Not that I'm complaining in general.  All else is good.  Just this system is a bit brittle in some aspects.

Anyway.  I'll press on pressing on.  I'm gradually getting my head around the distinctions between the different reactions.  

Regards,
Rosemary

Golly.  That was a first.  I posted and actually saw my post.  Was this fixed?  Or was I doing something wrong?  In any event.  I'll let you know if it happens again.

Watsup:

QuoteWell, good no North or South but what about the field. Does it come out on end and enter the other end and if so, how was this ever proven with all the science and technology we have at Mans' disposal, how is it proven?

You are probably not going to like this answer.  The field extends out to infinity, and it adds with other fields, where they are vector additions.  You can approach your answer from many angles, I will give you the one that sticks out in my mind:

There is a blackboard derivation where you work out the answer to the following question:  What does the magnetic field look like for an infinitely long straight wire that has a radius of one milimeter and is carrying one ampere of current?  You do the work and you arrive at the answer:  The magnetic field lines are wrapped around the wire in concentric circles, and the further away from the wire you are the weaker the magnetic field is.  Once you know that, then you can determine what the magnetic field is like for any setup.  So if you curl up that wire into a coil, the magnetic lines of force travel through the center of the coil and leave one end, then wrap around and go back in the other end, completing the loop.

If you hold a simple bar magnet in your hand, the interaction with the Earth's magnetic field creates a "magnetic bubble."  Try thinking about that.  (Addendum:  It also depends on the orientation of the magnet with respect to the Earth's magnetic field. )

QuoteWhat is the difference between a magnetizable core or a copper core?

You should read up on permeability and permittivity.  Perhaps try the Hyperphysics web site.   I can't answer the rest of the stuff in your paragraph.  It looks to me that you have worked out some sort of a system in your mind for explaining coil and core interactions but I don't get it.  Before you can start branching out into new directions, I think you should try to learn the basics first.

Quoteas long as there are other atoms with electrons near the impulse coil, you will get "bounce back"

Not at all.  Most atoms and molecules will not respond to the magnetic field generated by a coil.  The key is in the permeability of the material.  You are working with a preconception that is not necessarily serving you well so I suggest that you try doing some digging.  Sometimes the maths look overwhelming when you try to do some research and the trick there is to look more at the text descriptions and the graphs that show the waveforms and stuff like that.

MileHigh

MileHigh - Just a quick comment.  Conceptual physics is very interesting but needs to be based on fact.  I'm not sure that a magnetic field stretches into infinity.  If you apply iron filings to your standard permanent magnet it gets to a 'saturation point' beyond which no more filings 'stick'.  That's the extent of it's boundary.  And it seems to imply that there's a finite quantity of flux in any given magentic field.  And what's curious about the coil is that the flux on the outside then moves in one direction and the inside moves in another.  This means that the smaller fields from that 'thin wire with a current' - then also 'join up' into a coherent toroidal field in the coil.  Which also indicates that the flux moves independently of the material in the magnet itself.  Both these points are important.  It implies that the field itself may be based on some kind of invisible matter.

LOL.  I think I'm going on going on.  And I need to get back to all those Wiki references.  Just thought I'd mention this.  

Regards,
Rosemary

edited.

@aetherevarising and WU,

I see the grand scheme as any interaction, interference or dynamic displacement. Pick your platform if you will. Keely did things with sound that we assume had to be done chemically or with detonation. And we STILL use a club for alot of processes!
Rife and Dotto showed interactions and molecular biasing with fields.
We have seen the lighting of incandescents with kinetic energy vs current.
I say there are only 3 ways to cause this effect:
Bloch wall manipulation, Bloch wall manipulation, Bloch wall manipulation. Think about that. Wattsup you showed the bucking field coils, my GK4 did the same thing. Yours lit an air led, mine bit the shit out of me. I raised a parameter and blew up equipment, I even went down in mass i.e itsy bitsy coils like your 1 wire runs with 90 degreed windings at both ends. Still seen effects. You could not avoid it.
I look at Magnacoaster's. He jacks the Bloch wall in air between 2 coils. That is a linear model. But the tpu with 3 layers is the same thing but a flat model! We know SM liked to hide things. Well all his TPUs are black. And you know why? Because the HV manipulation in them using Sparkgaps or neons. Everything is taped up to hide the one thing that lights up. Put a neo in the stungun terminal loop. watch the firing. It thumps! Now we know every multiple coil config we see has either a spark gap or some kind of field manipulation in it. Does anyone know that stunguns now have a neon in them at the first micro gap instead of the screw adjustable metallic gap? Don Smith, Tariel Kapanadze, Nicola Tesla. The abrupt firing hits the first coil and it screams explosion! because the coil cannot conduct that fast. What do we get in return? 1k fold. Mother nature comes back pissed off because the nest was disrupted. Once again the coils cannot conduct that fast. We are know stuck in a loop should we fire again.
It is almost like resonance is the firing the gap at the right time, like 5k?
So I am now firing a stun gun into a neon and in the conductor loop I have a center toroid thingy. The collector is HV as is ... I many combinations to try yet.

I am trying to figure out if SM used HVDC or HVAC and in which configuration.
But the stungun ckt cannot go away. That makes it look simple and 'Its the way the coils react' quote SM. I am having a difficult time with SM using resonance in the TPU models he showed. Unless it is even simpler than I think.

Giantkiller - golly.  I've been rolling.  The only thing you didn't make into an acronym was my name.  And I can honestly say that I understood absolutely nothing in your last post.

At least I had a good laugh.  Clearly it's not only my vision that's somewhat impaired.   ;D

Kindest regards,
Rosemary

Guess I've been in TPU land too long. My only hope is Wattsup understands.

@GK

Yes I do understand but that is simply because I know where you are coming from. Similar to when @otto would just put out a  rather vagabond sentence and I would know exactly what he meant. I really miss the guy.

About the high voltage pulsing, you now have the right piece of equipment to do some major testing with high voltage, low amperage, and even with high frequency pulsing to boot. Man oh man, I think I need one of those power supplies. Moma. break the piggy bank. But just be careful because you now have the steady voltage of a microwave that can be pulsed at many levels. You will also need a way to adjust the pulse frequency but also the pulse width. That is where many go wrong in experiments. They pulse and pulse but have no way of working the width. You could be at 50% width all the time and not know that if you were at 60%, or 32% or 10%, the effects start to multiply on their own because the pulse width is just enough to initiate the motion but leaves enough room in the energy flow to let the effect manifest itself. To much width just stifles the effect. But be careful. Maybe keep a piece of raw meat near your coil just in case. If it starts cooking, get out of there.

One thing I did not show in videos is lighting up an air-coil-led by only holding the positive micro-amps pulse between two fingers and the LED was about 4 feet away from me. That totally freaked me out. But the funny thing was while the led was lit, I would change from holding the positive to holding the negative pulse and the LED would still stay lit. But when I stopped holding either, LED would go out and if I tried to light it again this time by holding the negative lead first, it would not light up. I should have made a video of that one. Guys would still be scratching their heads. This is a pure expression of the ether that surrounds us, not the Earths field, not the solar wind, not the galactic pulsations, but simply the ether that is everywhere always.

The way I see it is that we all need a solid ether basis. I tried a little with @MH just to see how open he is to other facets of "visualization" of this energy conundrum. But we will definitely have to go back to the conventional theories and work them down notch by notch. You know the world got along extremely well during ions while man thought everything was flat. By the same token, man can advance into the future very well and very comfortably with the acceptance of our present understandings and limitations of energy production, fields, etc. But one day, there will be a new Benjamin Franklin that will make the next "flagrant" discovery, so obvious and so attainable by all that it could not be denied by the power brokers. Right now, every idea, every theory, every experiment has to climb Everest and back in order to get some exposure and maybe a half-assed chance of being considered by those on the top of the totem pole.

Wattsup:

For what it's worth I am never going to be involved in any TPU-style threads and I wish all of the gang good luck with their high-voltage power supplies and all that stuff.  Just be careful because obviously they have the potential to be lethal.  As I said to Giantkiller, if in several months there is a tweaked demo that you guys think conclusively demonstrates something interesting I would certainly be interested in seeing it and looking at the data and commenting.  But I don't want to be involved in the work in progress.

With respect to "visualization" and new horizons and all that stuff, let's just say there are two sides to a coin.  I can try to look at your side of the coin and you can try to look at my side of the coin.  Many effects that you guys might think are remarkable might not be if you have a different set of "visualization tools."  For example, I don't see anything out of the ordinary with all of the Dr. Stiffler stuff and I have looked at all of Lidmotor's clips, and a few others.  I haven't really read the threads Dr. Stiffler though, I just took a peek from time to time.

MileHigh

Wattsup,

If you use a coil core made of highly conductive non-ferrous metal the result is the opposite of an iron core not that of an air core.

The beauty of using such a core is its ability to add a fair amount of capacitance to the coil. This is seen in small delay line designs used in older TV sets ( a simple coil wrapped around a copper rod ).
Another interesting trick to pull is to use the eddy currents to your advantage. Remember the sound of childish joy ("Tee-Hee") of so-called experts when they slid a magnet down a copper bar. One pole up and it followed the book. The other pole up and it lifted as it slid down the bar.

I can only guess they spent too much time in the book  :D

Hello

is it possible to make the pictures / diagrams of darkspeed and grumpy available for public access?

Thanks

@Wattsup

QuoteThe way I see it is that we all need a solid ether basis. I tried a little with @MH just to see how open he is to other facets of "visualization" of this energy conundrum. But we will definitely have to go back to the conventional theories and work them down notch by notch. You know the world got along extremely well during ions while man thought everything was flat. By the same token, man can advance into the future very well and very comfortably with the acceptance of our present understandings and limitations of energy production, fields, etc. But one day, there will be a new Benjamin Franklin that will make the next "flagrant" discovery, so obvious and so attainable by all that it could not be denied by the power brokers. Right now, every idea, every theory, every experiment has to climb Everest and back in order to get some exposure and maybe a half-assed chance of being considered by those on the top of the totem pole.

I would agree, more and more I see people starting to think for themselves or "maturing" where their thoughts no longer revolve around pleasing others or trying to fit in with other groups of people. This is why what we call science has changed in many ways, the younger generation are much more independent because they have access to a great deal of information from many sources based on many different perspectives. They are no longer bound to the "black and white" dogma that we see in many fields of science which hinders the development of independent thought. I find it rather comical when supposed responsible adults tell me I have to believe something just because other large groups of people should happen to believe one thing or another when in fact "maturity" is defined not by our cowering to popular opinion or belief but being "independent" from it, ie -- "Free from the influence, guidance, or control of another or others; self-reliant". As well many of the younger successful people I have talked with do not have this childish need of acceptance or conformity, they do their own thing, and their success is in part due to their non-conformity to popular opinion.
We should also consider how technology can evolve and enter the market place, technology does not come into being just because a few old dinosaurs finally accept it the reality is that a technology enters the marketplace because these prehistoric remnants of the old school mentality can no longer deny it. My thoughts here are that I have no need to prove anything to anyone and if someone does not believe what I say then they can wait and buy my technology off a shelf at Walmart like everyone else. I have nothing to prove to them or anyone and my success it not dictated by them nor any explanation they feel may be necessary, my success it dictated by working technology and the only proof required is that it "works"--period.


@aetherevarising

QuoteConceptual physics is very interesting but needs to be based on fact.  I'm not sure that a magnetic field stretches into infinity.  If you apply iron filings to your standard permanent magnet it gets to a 'saturation point' beyond which no more filings 'stick'.  That's the extent of it's boundary.  And it seems to imply that there's a finite quantity of flux in any given magentic field.  And what's curious about the coil is that the flux on the outside then moves in one direction and the inside moves in another.  This means that the smaller fields from that 'thin wire with a current' - then also 'join up' into a coherent toroidal field in the coil.  Which also indicates that the flux moves independently of the material in the magnet itself.  Both these points are important.  It implies that the field itself may be based on some kind of invisible matter.

I like your way of thinking, it seems absurd if not impractical that a closed loop would extent to infinity if it must always return to it's source, if there is one thing we do know it is that these field lines follow the path of least resistance which in all probability does not include infinity as it would constitute the path of greatest resistance. I have found magnetism to be somewhat of an illusion, not unlike a magician moving his right hand about to draw everyone's attention to it when we should be watching the left hand as well. The real issue would seem to be our complete pre-occupation with matter and currents moving about and we become fixated solely on this motion as if that is all there can be, not unlike a cat mesmerized by a mouse, and we cannot seem to see past the illusion. I think Nikola Tesla had it perfectly correct, when we understand "what" electricity and magnetism are fundamentally(not the effects of these fields but the cause of them) then our world and our understanding of it will be changed forever. It is a shame that so many people feel so alone and excluded from everything else around them and they apply this singular thought to the world in which they live. However I have found this is not the case, we know we are a part of something greater than ourselves, all that "stuff" we know exists within and external to the little world we have created for ourselves in an effort to make sense of things. When I look upward into a clear star filled sky I do not feel alone nor do I feel small or isolated, I am simply in awe that I have had the chance to be a part of something much greater than myself or my thoughts, that we are all connected by unseen forces we have yet to fully understand, I have found the Electric, Magnetic and Gravitational forces are not so hard to understand but they must be viewed from outside our own egocentric perspective as something more than what we see.
Regards
AC

Quotemy success it dictated by working technology and the only proof required is that it "works"--period.

I agree AC, so are you going to share working technology with us? Are you saying you have OU devices? And now we are back to: what are the specs, the numbers, the explanations of how they work, where the extra energy is coming from etc.?  We need our feet in the sand and our heads in the clouds, we need Patrick Flanagan's and Joseph Cater's and Tesla's but we also need Milehigh's and Wavewatcher's and Farrah Day's to ensure the results we find are real.  It is going to take us all to get to a break through, but I like your thinking.

In theory all fields extend out to infinity; and just because you can not measure them does not mean they are not there.

The field lines from a permanent magnet extend out to infinity if unimpeded (such as by a "shield"), but for all practical purposes, the field strength is insignificant once one looks beyond several feet from it. The flux density outside the magnet is proportional to the distance away from it. Double the distance, halve the density. You can double the distance an infinite number of times, but the density will never fall to zero.

Guys, let's please try to keep things technical, and relegate the philosophical comments to a more appropriately named thread.

Thanks,
.99

Rosemary:

QuoteFrankly Poynty that comment of yours that field lines extend into infinity is also philosophy.

This is fact and it also requires that you use your imagination and deductive reasoning.  You derive a formula for the magnetic field strength based as a function of distance.  You make measurements to confirm that your formula is correct.  You understand the limitations of your measuring instrument and realize that past a certain distance it will not be able to measure any more.  Yes these are immeasurably small effects but it still has value to know that they are there.  There is a certain gravitational attraction between myself and the moon.  In theory that could be measured.  There is a certain gravitational attraction between myself and the star Alpha Centauri.  It can't be measured but it can easily be calculated on paper!

So you need to expand your horizons Rosemary.  Every object in the universe has a gravitational attraction with every other object in the universe.  At the same time you know that most of these attractions are insignificant, but it's still interesting to know that they are there.  The same thing applies to electric and magnetic fields.  Gravitational, magnetic, and electric fields all become insignificant with distance and merge with all of the other sources of these fields to become a soupy "background noise" (for lack of a better term) that is not measurable but at the same time the effects are all still there.

When an object moves it's mass increases and it travels through time more slowly.  So when a record turns on a turntable the edge of the record travels through time more slowly than the center.  I am not saying by how much, but the effect is there.

It makes me think of your zipon theory.  You talk about zipons being tiny quantum-sized magnetic spheres lined up on magnetic lines of force.  But in truth there are no "lines of force."  Just like there are no electric field lines.  Those are just imaginary constructs that we use to help us illustrate what's going on or to make diagrams on paper or in a 3D graphic environment. There are no lines at all, there are just continuous fields that have magnitude and directon.

There is an interesting irony here that's a recurring theme on the forums.  Some people accuse others of not being open-minded enough or having an imagination while not being able to imagine themselves.

I am adding a final disclaimer here.  If you were not educated in the sciences, then certainly you can't necessarily be expected to visualize gravitational and electromagnetic effects and know and understand all of the nuances involved.  So indeed it sometimes takes education to leverage your knowledge so that you can imagine new and interesting things.  Just for fun, an example:  If you put a hot cup of coffee on your kitchen table, how long does it take for the coffee to reach room temperature?  Assume the room temperature remains constant.  In the context of this discussion, the cup of coffee "never" reaches room temperature.

I put never in quotations because there are some deeper issues involved if you really want to split hairs.  It takes some education and imagination to see all of this.  There is a fundamental principle involved that explains why the answer is "never."  This fundamental principle touches almost every single experiment that is done around here.

MileHigh

Rosemary:

I barely know anything about dark energy and dark matter.  In that context I can just tell you what I believe.

I believe that "dark matter" is based on the fact that galaxies rotate faster than we can account for if we take a tally of the visible stars in a given galaxy and crunch the numbers.  So all that they know is that there is an unaccounted for extra mass in galaxies.  It could be interstellar gas, some unknown particle soup, they just don't know, and they are trying to figure out how to account for it.

I believe that "dark energy" is a term that arises from the quite shocking and currently unexplainable discovery that the expansion of the Universe is accelerating.  We "knew" that the expansion of the Universe was supposed to be slowing down from gravitational attraction.  Before the shocking discovery they were only trying to figure out if the expansion was going to go on forever, akin to a kind of "escape velocity" or if the expansion was going to slow down and stop and then become a big crunch.

So since they have no idea why the universe is accelerating outwards, they are calling that "dark energy."  It's just a term assigned to an unexplained phenomenon.  Besides that, they know almost nothing.  I suppose it could even be a case of measurement error.  Maybe a future sensing satellite will refute the acceleration measurement.

Whatever the final answer might be, I personally don't think either of these unknown concepts affects us here on Earth.  Any experiments on the forums that attribute an unexplained experimental phenomenon to "dark energy" or "dark matter" are in my humble opinion just jumping on the "flavour of the month" bandwagon.  I know that you make reference to these things all the time with respect to your project and I respectfully disagree.  As you know, I don't think your project has any merit either and that's the likely conclusion that will result from any serious testing that will be done by the university.  Also, Glen's data does not show any energy gain.  I am only mentioning this because of the tie-in you make between "dark energy" and your project, I am not here to get into a fight with you about your project or the data.  I am content to simply wait for the university results to come in.

I am certain that a lot more research into dark energy and dark matter has been done that I am blissfully ignorant of.  At the same time, I can't envision dark energy and dark matter having any affect on our terrestrial civilization.  Certainly dark energy and dark matter are concepts that can be leveraged by the free energy cottage industry for the long term.

MileHigh

Quote from: poynt99 on 2010.10.11, 17:53:19
In theory all fields extend out to infinity; and just because you can not measure them does not mean they are not there.

The field lines from a permanent magnet extend out to infinity if unimpeded (such as by a "shield"), but for all practical purposes, the field strength is insignificant once one looks beyond several feet from it. The flux density outside the magnet is proportional to the distance away from it. Double the distance, halve the density. You can double the distance an infinite number of times, but the density will never fall to zero.

Guys, let's please try to keep things technical, and relegate the philosophical comments to a more appropriately named thread.

Thanks,
.99

Poynt,

I'll have to agree with you on radiant fields (heat, light, compression waves from an explosion, etc.). On magnetic fields I will state my belief:

When you use a higher-end magnetic field simulator, you can simulate the 'field of a magnet' within an ambient magnetic field. That 'ambient field' can be a larger or stronger, nearby magnet or that of the planet. In any case, you will see how all so-called 'individual fields' are only "bubbles" in the surrounding magnetic field. You will also see where the lines stop looping through the magnet and connect to the ambient field.

The result I wish to confirm is: When a magnet is encased in a magnetic-null situation, does the magnetic strength of that magnet remain the same? Is the strength affected? How and how much?

I ran that test about when solid state Hall-Effect devices dropped to a reasonable cost (198? - MicroSwitch). It looked something like a beach-ball but was made of layered Maxwell coils. - Jeez. I wish I had money like the old dayzzzz.

The field weakened almost completely. Since then I realized a better test would be with a piece of attracted metal with a spring between the magnet and metal piece  :(

@Wattsup,
I have 5ns pulses and 5mghz now using Jason's controller and SSR boards. 1500v max tho. But I am working that scenario with FET stacking. In 2 weeks I will have 50kv to use. I like the parameters I learned from TTBrown and Podlketnov. Makes the Deyo coil look even more interesting.
I have the HV turned off while I find the resonant rise of the current build using dual pulse. Gotta write a script and watch it run on the scope. This version of the controller has no feedback. The next one on order does through a meter that optically couples to the circuit.

As always, if anybody has any configs they would like to submit I am open.

I like this also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbkvXoDfk7g

@Giantkiller

QuoteI like this also:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbkvXoDfk7g

I like that also,lol, it's amazing isn't it, here we have a person with little means, probably little education or theories of any sort and yet he has found success where so many have not. This is the kind of thing that transcends all the BS concerning one's education and knowledge I think, when a person has tangible results in hand, it kind of makes all this talk by the self-proclaimed experts seem rather insignificant in comparison. I think history has given us more than enough proof to justify what we already know, talk is cheap and it is the hands on builders and experimenters who will change our world not the experts talking about doing something or telling us why it cannot be done.
Regards
AC

AC,

It certainly appears promising, but how do you know that what is being shown is authentic?

Is it wise to assume it is authentic without any proof at all?

In my opinion, no.

.99

@Poynt99

QuoteIt certainly appears promising, but how do you know that what is being shown is authentic?
Is it wise to assume it is authentic without any proof at all?
In my opinion, no.

I have what some might call a bad attitude,lol, when I see something like this I do not really care if it works as claimed or what proof is offered. First I seek to understand the principal of operation, a premise on which to build, next I test individual aspects of the device and the interactions between components. Then I build the device and test it, probe it and then change operating parameters to see how one aspect of the device effects the other components, I use this procedure for all building and testing. To do this does not require that the device is authentic or that the claims have been verified or that it works or that there is any proof of any kind, it is irrelevant. When I built this device right after I saw the first kapanadze video's more than six or more months ago I saw it as a learning experience--period, how can you learn anything new if you never build anything? Personally I have found that what I "know" is important but what I "learn" is priceless because I cannot evolve my understanding of things unless I learn something new that is tangible, the moment we stop learning "new" things is the moment our development stops dead in it's tracks. That's my theory ;)
Regards
AC

There is an interesting generic issue that is illustrated with that clip that supposedly demonstrates a Kapanadze device.

If we are going to assume that the inventor is open-sourcing his or her device, why is there so much that is shrouded in mystery?  It seems that there are almost always a few variations of the schematic available, and nobody knows if the schematic is complete or not or if a given schematic works or not.  Then there is usually a series of clips made by the inventor and the replicators, and almost all of the time they are unclear and there is almost never any attempt made to establish some credibility by panning the camera around to show that there are no hidden power sources, no hidden wires, etc.

In the clip linked to a few posts back, you basically see a rat's nest of wires and components on a small table.  There is never any attempt to show you that there is nothing under the device, nothing around the device, etc.  The overall presentation is pretty awful.  I think that I saw the original Kapanadze device clip also.  It looks like an outdoor garden party with a bunch of people standing around and it's impossible to tell what's going on.  There are lots of ways to sneak a mains power connection into the setup.

If the inventor wants to open-source his or her invention then they should be very clear with respect to everything.  Another thing that you almost never see is a timing diagram.  The timing diagram could show you how the device operates and show you the activity for all of the critical voltages and currents in the circuit.  In theory, there is no reason that the timing diagram could not show exactly where and when the over unity mechanism takes place.

On the actual Kapanadze thread in this forum, Poynt uploaded two schematic diagrams from J.L. Naudin that use a microwave oven transformer.  They are both ostensibly "self runners" according to the annotations in the schematic diagrams.  When I look at those two schematics I can see how they work as long as they are connected to the mains power, but once you disconnect the mains power they won't self run, they will be as dead as a proverbial doornail.  Some of you may disagree, so the question is "how can you explain the self-running?"

I notice that these two schematic diagrams are almost identical.  The earth ground connections may have a marginal affect on the circuits, but not much.  The circuits make use of high voltage, and sharp transients.  I know that some of you believe that high voltages and sharp transients will make something special happen.  As suggestion for a good exercise, why don't the Kapanadze enthusiasts try to make timing diagrams for those two Naudin/Kapanadze circuits?  This will be equivalent to dissecting the circuit to see what makes it tick.  I get the feeling that you are excited to replicate a given device and then try it out to see if you get over unity.  I am suggesting that you try to look inside the device to see what is going on first.  If you could do the timing diagram for the Naudin circuit, then for whatever device you plan on building, you could build it and at the same time try to do the timing diagram for it.  Bedini is another good example.  Bedini enthusiasts never make timing diagrams, but they talk all the time about "tuning" their motors for the optimum performance.  Having a timing diagram for a properly tuned Bedini motor would be a great help for someone trying to build one.

UPDATE:  There is something critical that I didn't catch about the two Naudin diagrams.  In the diagram "naudin_kapagen_one_ground.jpg" there is something very screwy about the main transformer.  The 90-turn coil and the 6-turn coil are in the same current loop.  Therefore for that schematic the transformer doesn't even work like a transformer, it simply acts like a series inductor.  The schematic "naudin_kapagen_one_ground_without_center.jpg" is the good one, that one will work with 90T/6T transformer functioning properly.

For the timing diagram, you could do it based on your understanding of how the device should operate, or on your actual measurements.  Some of your assumptions may be correct, some of your assumptions may need to be corrected and the timing diagram updated.  At the end of the process you could have a timing diagram that precisely describes how the device works.

To go back to my earlier theme, the enthusiasts should challenge the people that release these setups, like Kapanadze, to properly document what they are doing, and to make clips that are clear and unambiguous.  I suppose that's a tall order, a "wish list" item.

MileHigh

the two diagrams from Naudin look like the Kapagan version, and last I heard it was not OU, or even close.

The key to Kapanadze's device is probably how he obatains what he calls "auto resonance" in the excited coil.

Grumpy:

Thanks for the info.  Did Naudin ever get anything to do something interesting?

I found this .gif diagram of Naudin's:

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9862/kapagendevice.gif

You will notice one more time the main high-voltage step-down transformer built around the PVC tube is non-functional.  The primary and the secondary are in the same current loop that goes to earth ground.  Therefore it doesn't even work like a step-down transformer.  It just acts like a series inductor.  What that means is that if the spark-gap ignites, and let's assume that we still have a ways to go up the high-voltage sine wave, then the HV sine wave gets to conduct through the 1 uF cap, through the spark gap, through the useless PVC tube transformer, and then into the light bulbs.

I don't want to prejudge J.L. Naudin but it would not surprise me if he didn't realize this about the PVC HV "transformer."  As long as the HV output from the microwave transformer was rising and the spark-gap was sustained, in theory it was possible for AC mains power to make it's way to the halogen lights, hence the demonstration of high output power.

QuoteThe key to Kapanadze's device is probably how he obatains what he calls "auto resonance" in the excited coil.

Well, this would have to be clearly demoed and clearly explained.  One more time we are in my "wish list" territory and I don't think that will ever happen.  If we assume that J.L. Naudin did a faithful Kapanadze device replication and his schematic is accurate, then you can forget about the "auto resonance," it's bullshit as far as I am concerned.  Perhaps the "big surprise" is that the PVC HV transformer doesn't even function like a transformer, it acts like a series inductor.

MileHigh

Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.13, 22:23:42
Grumpy:

Thanks for the info.  Did Naudin ever get anything to do something interesting?

I found this .gif diagram of Naudin's:

http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/9862/kapagendevice.gif

You will notice one more time the main high-voltage step-down transformer built around the PVC tube is non-functional.  The primary and the secondary are in the same current loop that goes to earth ground.  Therefore it doesn't even work like a step-down transformer.  It just acts like a series inductor.  What that means is that if the spark-gap ignites, and let's assume that we still have a ways to go up the high-voltage sine wave, then the HV sine wave gets to conduct through the 1 uF cap, through the spark gap, through the useless PVC tube transformer, and then into the light bulbs.

I don't want to prejudge J.L. Naudin but it would not surprise me if he didn't realize this about the PVC HV "transformer."  As long as the HV output from the microwave transformer was rising and the spark-gap was sustained, in theory it was possible for AC mains power to make it's way to the halogen lights, hence the demonstration of high output power.

Well, this would have to be clearly demoed and clearly explained.  One more time we are in my "wish list" territory and I don't think that will ever happen.  If we assume that J.L. Naudin did a faithful Kapanadze device replication and his schematic is accurate, then you can forget about the "auto resonance," it's bullshit as far as I am concerned.  Perhaps the "big surprise" is that the PVC HV transformer doesn't even function like a transformer, it acts like a series inductor.

MileHigh

Per the translation of an interview with Kapanadze, he says that there is a resonance between the green box and the coil.  He states that the energy comes directly from the environment.  When they pick up the components in the video, the items that remain on the table are not part of the circuit.  He does not mention the function of the second coil over the first coil.  The coil is mounted on a paper towel holder.

Looks like the receive side of a Tesla transmitter. Hmm...

Grumpy:

How often have we heard the phrases "resonance" and "the energy comes directly from the environment" bandied about?  If the energy comes directly from the environment then they should be able to place a few scope probes on their device and clearly show that process taking place in real time.

On overunity.com they are up to 4197 postings on the Kapanadze device.  I think that the thread was started about one year ago.  Several replication attempts must have been done on that thread by now.  If anybody had something real surely we would have heard about it.

For some reason this kind of stuff often comes out of Eastern Europe.

MileHigh

Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.17, 18:27:27
Grumpy:

How often have we heard the phrases "resonance" and "the energy comes directly from the environment" bandied about?  If the energy comes directly from the environment then they should be able to place a few scope probes on their device and clearly show that process taking place in real time.

On overunity.com they are up to 4197 postings on the Kapanadze device.  I think that the thread was started about one year ago.  Several replication attempts must have been done on that thread by now.  If anybody had something real surely we would have heard about it.

For some reason this kind of stuff often comes out of Eastern Europe.

MileHigh

I hear the term "resonance" all the time and often to imply different meanings than the last person that used the term.  I take it to imply that one thing has been tuned or otherwise adjusted to produce the greatest effect when used with another thing.  I would not add more to than that.  In the case of Kapanadze, the green box has been tuned to achieve the greatest effect from the coils.   Vague, but that is all you can get from it.

Kapanadze explanations and recreations and all that have been around for over a year now and none of them appear to actually work and they are all different based on the builders interpretation of the many unknowns of the Kapanadze device.  The most informative video is the one where the device is demonstrated outside with the coil in clear view for all to see.  Can anyone study that video and determine how the system is wired?

Yes, you should be able to measure something around the device, but unless you measure it yourself, it is not definitive.

Looking at the Kapanadze system and what little he has said about it and it looks like the receive end of a Tesla Transmitter.  This means he is exciting a coil of many turns with hv pulses, at a rate that produces the strongest effect in the secondary which is the shorter thicker outer coil.  This means the two grounds would be on the primary coil ends rather than the secondary like a Tesla Transmitter.    One ground replaces the raised terminal.

@milehigh

Quote from: MileHigh on 2010.10.13, 21:34:32
If we are going to assume that the inventor is open-sourcing his or her device, why is there so much that is shrouded in mystery?  It seems that there are almost always a few variations of the schematic available, and nobody knows if the schematic is complete or not or if a given schematic works or not.  Then there is usually a series of clips made by the inventor and the replicators, and almost all of the time they are unclear and there is almost never any attempt made to establish some credibility by panning the camera around to show that there are no hidden power sources, no hidden wires, etc.

If I did not know anyone who is interested in investing in this kind of technology the first thing I would do personally is make some youtube video's with my email attached. I would give just enough information to get persons who are interested in investing in the technology reason to believe the technology is real but no more than is needed. This protects my interests as well as the potential investors, my potential market for investors is now anyone in the world with an internet connection. I thought it was perfectly obvious that Kapanadze had no real intention of open sourcing this in any way and Im not sure why people assumed he would. As well most all the schematics posted are based on his patents, video's or replications based on his patents out of Eastern Europe as such we do not know if any of them work exactly like what Kapanadze has demonstrated. LOL, I imagine Kapanadze found more investors ready to throw huge sums of money at this in the first week than he ever could have imagined, it's one hell of a way to drum up business on a global scale. Anyone who knows anything of this technology knows the internet is the place to find investors and that the investors and corporations are watching the internet for them, this relationship works pretty well.
Regards
AC

Edit: corrected quoting syntax.

Quote from: bearrabbit on 2010.01.20, 17:50:02
I 've had a unit ordered since August and spoke with them today.  My unit should be shiped this week. The problem being is I've been promised at least 6 times to be shiped since October.  I will  let you know when and if I get it.

This was about a year ago.  So was the unit shipped?  or are this company and its claims bogus?  
(I didn't read the whole thread, just seeking an update.)

Oh thats funny, every morning i drink my coffee and pop over to magnacoaster to see if its Christmas yet.

In his initial device he had a rotating disk with permanent magnets mounted in it.
The stator consisted of a permanent magnet mounted to a metal rod.
The metal rod had a solenoid coil around it.
The solenoid was energized for a number of degrees of rotation with a 12v dc source.
When energized it would null the field in the stator magnet allowing the rotor magnet to be attracted to the metal rod.
When the rotor magnet passed the rod a (spark gap) switch would break the 12vdc to the coil and suddenly the stator magnet would saturate the rod and be in repulsion mode with the rotor magnet - thus pushing it away with great force.

This seems like a foolish idea because your stator coil is energized for a great number of degrees or rotation.

I dont think this guy has any idea what he is doing.. However.. I think he inadvertently created a condition for a radiant event to occur.

My thinking is the high voltage flyback from the stator coil is moving through a rapidly transitioning magnetic field.

He suddenly had problems with very high but very brief high voltage high current spikes.

He has probably collected enough information to make it to a semi solid state device but im not sure he knows how to bring the effect he found to market.

I would think that when he transitioned from a mechanical switch to a solid state switch the effect greatly changed.

With his non-rotor ( no motor ) devices he had the coil in an oil bath because of the static charge it would create, this setup still used a rotary spark contactor - this is a good sign

When he moved to true solid state and did away with the rotary spark contractor he no longer needed the oil bath - this is a bad sign - i think

One thing that gives me hope is that his solid state device started out with one collector coil on top of the solenoid coil, then he started adding more collector coils that appear to be identical, so he may be getting copies of the event by adding more collector coils and thus increasing the output for a given input.

One thing that makes me pessimistic is reading his earlier posts to other forums asking for help with mesfeet circuitry.

You find a bag of gold, its too heavy to cary it away, so your only choice is to share it for assistance, or sit on it.

Magnacoaster looks like a fraud, and walks and quacks like a fraud.  There has been no word from them for over a year and apparently there is not a single known paying customer that has taken delivery of one of their devices.

@MH  That should really pretty much wrap up this thread...I mean as a final statement.  At least until the first fully functional production units are delivered (well beyond our lifespan, I'm betting).

@Poynt99 and Aetherevarising

Quote from this thread by Ms. Ainslee: "Our own device showed an unarguable result at COP >17.  Glen's device showed COP>7.  Those two facts I KNOW.  I have all the empirical evidence that I or any reasonable scientist requires.  I KNOW that both Glen's and my device showed repeated performance levels where more energy was returned to the battery than was ever supplied."  

This is apparently yet a new claim.  Not only does it heat a resistor 17 times more efficiently than a straight wire hookup, but it now also charges its own battery at the same time!  Oh, my God!  This is such amazingly great news!  Heat your home and cook your food and dry your clothes (which accounts for about 90% of all household electrical usage) for 1/17 the cost and get free battery charging too (to cover all the lighting and small appliances)!  Will wonders never cease?  It certainly sounds like she is saying that a self-running heater is on the near horizon (if only all the scientists in the world weren't so unreasonable).

Why is this particular lady immune to and exempt from the "OU claiming rule" I've recently observed Poynt getting all over the FLEET guy (Lawrence) about?

I've followed the insane decade-long saga of the "COP 17" heater front to back on all the forums.  I've seen nothing close to any kind of proof or even a hint of an indication of OU.  This may not be the right place to bring up such a question but her thread is locked (no wonder given the total lack of valid testing being done or discussed...100% pure infighting, rude nonsensical philosophical bickering and name-calling) and it is from this thread right here that I have taken Ms. Ainslee's quotation.

Maybe this (my question above) should be asked in a PM.  I'd love to lay forth an extremely simple and step-by-step irrefutably logical test plan for any black box with battery input and heat output that skips all the fancy Tek scopes (despite my owning one) and bickering and tedious measurements involving Excel spreadsheets and millions of samples to number-crunch.  All of that crap is entirely unnecessary to validate any such system with an actual OU of say 3 or better.  

If her device can pass my simple test with an indicated OU of 3 or better, I hereby pledge that I will volunteer to apply all my remaining time on Earth (it won't take that long) and all my experience at getting products designed and onto the market (including huge nasty screaming 40.68MHz multi-kilowatt RF-powered CO2 plasma lasers) with full worldwide FCC, CE, FDA and UL safety and emissions compliance.  Free of charge!  Wherever and whenever she says.  I'll supply my own food, shelter, lab and test gear as well as time and vast experience at doing successful new product design, approval, documentation and release.  And I'll do it happily, with enthusiasm and great joy!

Why the folks on these various forums allow people to get away with evolving these elaborate and extremely difficult and argumentative test approaches I will never understand unless it's simply group-willed procrastination.  Test procedures that require literally years to even agree upon, months more to gather the exotic expensive gear and years more to complete and document the test results when an ultra-simple and definitive test method (that takes no equipment you can't get at Radio Shack and any local drugstore for under $20 and which most folks already own)  is totally clear and glaringly obvious.  I'll never understand.  

The only reason I can think of is that everyone, including the mods, the forum owners, the proud delusionary inventors, the replicators, the referee/teachers like MH and even guys like me...the lookie-loo somewhat skeptical audience...we all want to prolong the agony and exstasy of the insanely tedious and delusionally prolonged journey from claim to disproof, I guess.  It's entertainment.  God, I am so bored!  Never thought retirement would be this tedious!

Where should I post my foolproof, simple test setup and procedure for Ms. Ainslee's invention?

Humbugger:

Yep, sometimes stuff is made to be way too complicated.  I don't know how to use 90% of the functionality in my cell phone!

Since "integration" is the current buzz word, some people might not realize that capacitors are integrators with essentially infinite precision and an infinitely high sampling rate.  In many applications a big dumb capacitor can outperform the most expensive DSO with built-in math functions.

I agree with you that the Ainslie circuit could be checked for it's COP claims with integrating electrical, and thermal, capacitors.

For all those people that think that they can't verify their measurements because they don't have a super-expensive DSO, look again and get creative. The solutions to all of your measurement problems may already be on your bench.

MileHigh

humbugger,

See my PM for your answer.  :)

Looking forward to it.

.99

As suggested, the new "A Simple Test for Large COP Claims in Pulsed Inductive Heater Circuits" thread is here: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=580.msg9211;topicseen#msg9211 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=580.msg9211;topicseen#msg9211)

http://www.magnacoaster.com/magna/html/contact_us.html
Seems Richard has kept Busy?

Think I'll give a ring tomorrow?
thx
Chet

Would some one have this wondrous circuit, so as some of us may try it for our selfs?

A quote from Magnacoaster:

http://www.magnacoaster.com/magna/html/how_it_works.html

"Units need to dump the power into a battery or a capacitor bank to change from dc pulse to regular DC. Nothing that is made today will accept our power due to the fact that it is DC pulse."

I am pretty sure this DC 12V, 24V or 48V submersible water heater will accept DC pulsed power, and it is not only made today but you can buy one:

http://www.hydrogenappliances.com/hotwater.html

String a few together in parallel and you can load match the output to your magic Vorktex. The added bonus being it will not cost hundreds of thousands of $ to do!

Normally I would not bother to comment on a Magnacoaster thread however for those that follow my work they may find a 1" NPT thread fitting very useful, if they do not have native access to BSP fittings.

RIM.