Time to move over to an appropriate thread for testing results.
The plan now with this is first to build a heater drive circuit, i thought about using all sorts of fet/transistor class A drivers for this but have ended up going the good old 2n3055 transistor route but will modify the below circuit, i will use 2 x 2n3055 in parallel and 1 2n3055 to drive the base, tap the sine from a small LV mains transformer and feed the phase board then the output sinewave to the base of the 2n3055 via a preset to adjust it's amplitude.
I have an old computer AM2 heatsink and fan assembly i will mount the 2n3055's to.
http://www.rcepi.com/make_an_adjustable_voltage_motor.htm
I still need to get hold of a Valve HT transformer, not an easy task for 500-0-500 which is why i was going to go lower 250-0-250 and use a different valve, if i wait for a reasonably priced 500-0-500 240mA transformer i could be waiting for the rest of my life, these things sell for over £100 in the UK :'(
At last i am nearly there.
The above driver circuit worked but i could only get about 2V pk-pk across my heater.
Here's a summary of what i am doing.
Mains supply feeds a 6V transformer, this goes through a vol control to adjust amplitude, this then goes through a 0-360 Degree phase shifter, this then feeds a 15 Watt(upgraded from 10Watt) Class A amp which feeds one secondary winding of a 9V large toroidal transformer, the other 9V secondary winding is connected across the heater of the 5U4G.
Tonight i finally got to the point of powering up, and the 15Watt Class A easily gives me my heater amplitude and a lot more if needed, it glows 8)
I still have a couple of issues that should be no problem, i am using a 0-6 0-6 transformer, 1 winding provides my mains frequency and phased 50Hz reference, i used the other 0-6 winding to rectify and supply my phase adjust board, it looks like i am getting some distortion because of this, so i now need to move the phase shifter to a new supply and just use the 0-6 transformer for my reference.
I also have a 450-0-450 transformer hooked up via a variac - not had the bottle to fire this up yet.
Something strange happens also, with the variac turned to minimun which is giving me about 3-4 volts ac on the anodes, i connected 1 scope probe to my driver circuitry and then connected the second channel across the heater which is isolated from the driver circuit and suddenly i got lots of hash if the scope gnd is connected to only one side of the heater, i find this strange everything is isolated and connecting the scope ground to the heater should not matter anyway, so the ground probe is shorting gnd from the driver side to the heater side of the valve, surely it should not matter if 1 side of the heater is grounded?
Not got my good camera here but took a snap on the notebook.
I have also attached a shot of the sine across my heater, you can see some distortion on the top of the waveform.
Also i have uploaded the 2 pdf's which show how to build the Class A, i had to modify the design, it was originally a 1969 design, this pdf gives value changes to drive a 3Ohm load, so i added this mod to the 2000 version, i used 2 TIP3055 with 0.1 Ohm emitter resistors in place of each 2N3055 and a BD139-16 in place of the 2N1711
First Test with HT to valve, i explain the setup.
Varying Heater Phase versus HT Phase, Scoping 0V Ht Tap to each side of the Heater, i am just checking to see if there is any difference between each side of the heater during phase adjustment.
OK so now i need a plan :)
Quotes from SM
QuoteWell, I measured the output from the tube and the result is 500 volts DC at 250 mV.
I don't have this right now, i need to add a filter cap and load
QuoteThe point I wish to make here is that also along with the 500 volt DC is, yes, you guessed it, the 5 volts three amp AC current!
Indeed there will be, so we need to forget about the high DC potential and zoom into the 5V AC across the heater filament by switching scope to AC and turning the V/Div down
QuoteThey are both completely independent of each other except for some very interesting things I will mention to you some other time..
Hopefully we will be able to see this, we are concentrating on low mV noise and relationship between heater noise and plate noise, both will be present.
QuoteFirst of all, obviously you can have several different output components in the power output signal.
You can have DC and AC together without any problem.
Indeed we can but we must scope from the other side of the heater as opposed to the HV side to include the Heater AC waveform.
QuoteI was able to analyses everything coming out of this simple two transformer AC high voltage circuit.
I don't think i am looking for xrays as Lindsay says, the noise is very low voltage, i am more interested in harmonic currents.
QuoteIn most power supplies there is lots of hash coming out and designers use a .05 or so to short out as much as possible before it gets to the smoothing capacitors.
And here is the confirmation we are looking at low volts hash and noise, we don't want a 0.05 across the smoothing cap otherwise we will remove what we are looking to analyse.
QuoteThis hash comes from the mains supply and especially from the transformers themselves.
I can quiet believe this, i have previously seen mains noise get coupled to the secondary of a transformer and remain the same amplitude.
QuoteThen the smoothing capacitors take out the rest of the multiple frequency hash along with the gigantic 60 Hz ac left in the B+.
Hopefully he is referring to the mains supply components, 50 & 2ND component 100Hz, we are not interested in these so this is good.
We will be riding on our +B voltage so we need to get rid of this DC offset so we can zoom down into the low volts phased noise.Simply by switching to AC on the scope
QuoteI became interested in the interaction between the two AC transformers.
So shall i, by adjusting the phase between the heater and the HT supply
QuoteThe interaction can be very reveling, trust me.
I do hope so ;)
Nice job Peter. Hopefully, you'll encounter something interesting.
The pulsed charging effect is an easy one to try, and indicates that strange things are afoot.
I always thought that SM's coments that you reference above were analogies to the operation of the TPU rather than actual "how to" instructions.
We know that his output was DC with some "hash". Two transformers out of phase is synonymous with his two pulses out of phase.
Thanks G
QuoteI always thought that SM's comments that you reference above were analogies to the operation of the TPU rather than actual "how to" instructions.
I am hoping to find the magic ingredient for combining these kicks into larger kicks, i am working on the principle that varying the phase allows the conditions to be adjusted to allow the hash to combine and find what makes a large kick, i am convinced there's a recipe for making a really big kick.
I have added 2 x 470uF 470V caps in series from 1 pin of the heater and from the 0V tap of the transformer.
I am scoping both sides of the heater and clearly show the heater 50Hz 5V on one side co existing on 500V rectified DC, both seem to coexist as SM stated.
No Load added yet, i will put a resistor chain across and aim at a mere 10Watt load, this equates to 25K resistor, 20mA
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.08.01, 13:33:50
Thanks G
I am hoping to find the magic ingredient for combining these kicks into larger kicks, i am working on the principle that varying the phase allows the conditions to be adjusted to allow the hash to combine and find what makes a large kick, i am convinced there's a recipe for making a really big kick.
I always thought that the "big kick" was an analogy to the little kicks (^_^_^_^) inducing DC (-------------).
Hi G
My theory just got torn to pieces, i have 2 problems C.C
1 my heater waveform has replicated 50Hz pretty well bar a small amount of distortion, but it's devoid of mains noise.
2 the mains noise on top of the rectified HT is so clean i cannot believe it, there's no mains noise that i can see at all and that's on the 100mV AC range of my scope, this scope is noisy anyway so if there is noise it's below the scope's noise, must bring home my other scope and try that.
Adjusting the phase seems to have no effect at all - scratch head :-[
I will say that there was a glitch at one point where the rectified HT voltage jumped a little, this may have been a large mains born spike, but it did not show as one just a burst of DC, in the end i had no lowish ohm resistors to build a 10 watt load, i settled for a 220K 2Watt which gave me about a 1Watt load, so if the mains born spike was responsible for a DC rise in my HT then it had power, it lifted my rail enough to notice an offset while on AC scope probe setting.
I need to get my head around all this.
If SM did indeed adjust the phase of his heater then he also would be devoid of mains noise, so this is not the answer.
I tell you what i think i have just worked out how to build the Hungarian device ???
Here are the statements from SM:
I was working at a laboratory at the time with much more sophisticated equipment then is available to even most manufacturing companies.
I was able to analyses everything coming out of this simple two transformer AC high voltage circuit.
In most power supplies there is lots of hash coming out and designers use a .05 or so to short out as much as possible before it gets to the smoothing capacitors.
This hash comes from the mains supply and especially from the transformers themselves.
Then the smoothing capacitors take out the rest of the multiple frequency hash along with the gigantic 60 Hz ac left in the B+.
I became interested in the interaction between the two AC transformers.
The interaction can be very reveling, trust me.
Also, there is another interesting analogy.
We seem to overlook so many things in our society.
They are right in our faces but we just look around them without interest at all.
When I began to study the effects of multiple frequencies combined together I found out that when you deliberately strive to create the worst case scenario of frequencies you start to get some very measurable kicks.
In themselves they are not much.
But if you make enough of them fast sendoff, you get a collectible power spike that is more then the power available to begin with.
The destructive heating caused by the eddy currents become the problem we face when we make a really large powerful coil.
Now you understand more about the heating problem and why using a fan does not work.
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.08.01, 17:55:38
I have added 2 x 470uF 470V caps in series from 1 pin of the heater and from the 0V tap of the transformer.
I am scoping both sides of the heater and clearly show the heater 50Hz 5V on one side co existing on 500V rectified DC, both seem to coexist as SM stated.
No Load added yet, i will put a resistor chain across and aim at a mere 10Watt load, this equates to 25K resistor, 20mA
Very interesting results your getting there Peter. Keep up the good work.
Thx St
QuoteIn most power supplies there is lots of hash coming out and designers use a .05 or so to short out as much as possible before it gets to the smoothing capacitors.
Most power supplies show hash, but not all? i was not seeing any hash last night, maybe a quiet time to test.
QuoteWhen I began to study the effects of multiple frequencies combined together
Isn't this valve just a mixer, what happens if i feed 35kHz into one anode and 70kHz into the other anode.
QuoteThe plate has a high voltage potential with lots of useable power available.
You cant get to it or use it for anything without applying a heating voltage to the cathode or what is the cathode potential of the tube.
I am puzzled by the cathode potential, am i meant to be using a specific side of the heater as my +B volts or Cathode or can you use either side, the valve manual does not say, if either side can be used how is that possible.
Quote500 v-0-500 v 300 mV plate transformer run it through a full wave silicon circuit then run it through a 5U4 electron tube rectifier.
This looks to me that he is using rectified AC and feeding the resulting DC to the plate in order to make life easier in testing the heater current.
I think i understand what he requires of me now, he wants me to measure the current in the heater circuit and measure the current in the cathode circuit.
What voltage is measured between a plate and the heater when only heater power is applied?
I think this measured value is a measurement of the 'kicks'.
QuoteWhat voltage is measured between a plate and the heater when only heater power is applied?
I think this measured value is a measurement of the 'kicks'.
I can certainly disconnect the Anode's and see, when i get home O0
Here's the result of scoping anodes disconnected.
Pic Heater1anode is scoping across the heater(Yellow Chan) and green channel is on 1 anode which is disconnected from anything else
Pic2Anodes is scoping with scope earth connected to one side of heater and both channels are on 1 each of the anodes.
Very Interesting, not sure what to make of it, adjusting the heater phase alters the shape of the flat area on the yellow trace of 2 anodes picture.
I realized i am using a surge protector main extension for all my equipment, although i have now see mains noise and it seems to be additive to the rectified 500V DC so a sharp spike will appear positive of the DC 500V, i have tried to capture this but it only happens once in a blue moon, i had the camera recording for half an hour and only could see a very little on, before i switched the camera to record i had seen 3 or 4 big ones in about half >:( hour
like switching the hv over the 500v bias
OK for this test i have placed a UF4007 diode in each feed of the anodes and then scope each side of the heater with respect to the 0V tap on the HT transformer.
The scope snap shot is what i have on the anodes with diodes in line.
Don't forget i have a 220K resistor which is drawing about 1 Watt from the 2 series 470uF 450V caps
This clearly shows hash over 470V, surely this must be energetic particles causing this, i need to try this without diodes.
Does anyone know the difference between the 5U4G & 5U4GB i seem to be having trouble finding out.
I am also unable to find out how the 5U4 works, are the electrons directly emitted from the heater or does the heater directly heat a plate which then emits.
Should i be looking at this full wave rectifier valve as 2 separate diode half valves, each side of the heater has it's own plate and cathode?
I can't find much on the 5U4
Same Here G although that pdf is a help, it uses pin 8 for both diode cathodes O0
The G means Glass.
The GT means Glass Tube.
Both electrically the same.
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.08.03, 11:11:10
Does anyone know the difference between the 5U4G & 5U4GB i seem to be having trouble finding out.
I am also unable to find out how the 5U4 works, are the electrons directly emitted from the heater or does the heater directly heat a plate which then emits.
Should i be looking at this full wave rectifier valve as 2 separate diode half valves, each side of the heater has it's own plate and cathode?
Hi Peter,
From the link below it turns out the GB suffix designates 275mA anode current versus G suffix's 225mA current (while the GA suffix means 250mA):
https://www.tubeworld.com/5u4g.htm
Regarding your heater question, it is surely a direct heating type, the filament emiits the electrons, no any Cathode material involved which would emit for the heat from the filament. How do I know this? There is no any separate cathode pin... like in case for instance the EZ80 type, here the indirect heating is used.
Here is a data sheet for the 5U4GB: http://www.r-type.org/pdfs/5u4gb.pdf
rgds, Gyula
Peterae:
How does filament phase affect the mV of hash you are seeing with the pre anode diodes?
I'm guessing no effect.
Also SM suggested the use of a bridge rectifier in front of the anodes, in which case you could try two ways:
1) Both anodes tied together to plus of BR. Neg of BR to gnd.
2) Plus of BR on one anode, neg of BR to other anode.
Hi ION
I did try this morning the mv hash experiment with no diodes, and i do still get the effect, so it's not the diodes.
You are also correct in saying the heater phase being adjusted has no effect on the hash.
Personally i feel this noise is from within the tube, at such high HT levels i am exceeding the specs of the 450Va limit, it's strange SM mentions 500V as this is over 50V above the specified max working voltage for a 5U4G, he is also exceeding the anode cirrent by 25mA.
I will try the bridge, i am going to be interested to see what happens with a FWB to one anode especially how the second anode will behave.
Thanks Allphase & gyula only just seen your posts, that explains the over current condition with SM's setup.
This video shows 1 Anode connected and one open circuit, i am scoping across the heater, i do not have any silicon diodes in the anode and the hash can be seen again over 450V
This video shows 1 anode connected to the HT transformer and the other Anode open, i scope each anode to see what we have on the open 1, a waveform can be seen which is proportional to the connected anode voltage, there is no sign adjusting the heater phase adjusts an open anode waveform, this ac waveform is there also with the heater turned off, if i load it with a 100K resistor it diminishes to about 100mV if the other anode has about 250VAC on it, the most amazing thing i found is that if i disconnect all mains from each device and lay just a scope probe near the valve i get nothing while scoping the open anode i get 100mV mains on it, an open anode seems really good at picking up mains in the room with nothing connected to the mains at all.
In this video i try monitoring the hash and turning off the heater, the hash is still their when the heater is first turned off but does stop as the heater cools and emission ceases enough for the HT rail to drop below 450V, i am wondering if the hash is occurring at set times relating to the 50Hz(not sure i explained that that well)
Both anodes connected together and connected to +of FWB, 0V of FWB connected to 0V of Cap, + of cap connected to heater.
I had to disconnect the 0V tap of the transformer, it did not like this being connected.
Here we have the FWB with 0V of the FWB to one anode and +of FWB to other anode, i am scoping across the heater.
Same as last test but scoping Anodes,Here we have the FWB with 0V of the FWB to one anode and +of FWB to other anode, i am scoping across the Anodes.
I did some tests this morning with the hope of trying to use the FFT to analyse this noise, things did not go to plan :-[
Firstly using the Valve as a full wave rectifier with the transformer set for 500V DC, i then put in my full wave rectifier and rewired the 0V when i switched on i have a 1000V DC double than what i had with the valve alone, I should have reset the variac down after the previous setup, the result was that the 1000V knocked out Ch2 of my DSO, it seems to have lost the AC ability as if the internal cap has gone short, i am guessing right now it probably has being Surface mounted.
The other thing was i tried *1 probe setting to look at the Hash, this gave me a scale of 10mV instead of the previous 100mV, the waveform is very different, the ripple is much more rounded instead of being triangular, and from what i could see the noise was gone, i still need to do some more checks this was all done in a rush this morning.
Don't you just love it when you can trust your equipment to give you accurate waveforms GRRRRR >:-)
Peterae:
Double check by switching probes. You may have burned out the divider resistor in your probe if you were using 10X probes.
Probes (10X) usually have a small trimmer cap across the divider resistor to compensate the shielded wire capacitance. If this opened, you would lose some AC HF response.
If you have a schematic of the front end amplifier and attenuator of the DSO, maybe I can lend a hand.
Thanks for the offer ION, i am trying to track a diagram down, no luck so far.
It uses relays inside, i can here them clonk when i switch between AC & DC, it's stuck on DC because it behaves exactly the same when set to AC mode, instead of getting rid of the DC component the waveform sits on top of the DC.
I will try another probe but felt it's more likely to be inside the scope, we will see, not much time today to look at it.
http://www.freewebs.com/valvewizard/bridge.html
Some interesting stuff on why to use a full wave silicon rectifier before the valve.
QuoteWhat's more, the reservoir capacitor can be place between the silicon bridge and and valve, and it can be larger than if the valve alone were used. This means that the silicon diodes handle the ripple current, further reducing stress on the valve.
QuoteIf the filament supply has a centre tap then the HT may be taken from there, which will help to reduce HT noise induced by the filament.
It's looking like i need to connect the primary of my phase driven heater transformer to the primary of my HT transformer, then i can adjust the phase of the HT supply, it would appear the noise we maybe looking for is more likely to come from the heater transformer.
Well i checked for shorted caps on my Hantek and did not find any on Chan2, it uses 3 relays for input v/div selection but impossible to trace out, i presume it is a multi layer PCB.
There is no circuit available and the chip numbers are milled off.
So next step i emailed hantek explaining the problem, just had an email which suggested C96, which indeed having removed it was open circuit.
Having swapped the associated cap from Chan 1 which measures 56nF i have moved this over to Chan 2 and Chan 2 now works, just need to dig out a replacement for Chan 1 and i will be up and running again O0
??
They have never answered my emails for support.
I'm surprised ???
I would imagine it's a simple fault they have probably logged, i did request a circuit diagram so i could fault find, from what i understand they would never give out a diagram so this may have tipped them into providing a cure, they replied within a day.
Strange fault, i was looking for a S/C cap which would seem logical as it was passing the dc component, i must check maybe it has a leakage resistance or something.
I can forward her email address if you require a direct line :)
I am back in business now with the scope.
I followed the advice in my previous post about placing the bridge before the anodes and also placing the cap before the anodes, so the + of the cap is connected to both anodes and the + of the bridge.
The 0V of the bridge is connected to my 0V of the cap, this is interesting.
Here's a scope shot across my heater, 1 probe each end with the scope probe earths connected to the cap 0V.
Notice how each end of the heater is now out of phase by 180 Degrees and each heater end is showing as half the pk-pk.
I would be interested for anyone that's clever to have a shot at explaining why this is to me because it does not make any sense to me C.C
I also thought i would try mathing these on the scope to try and work this out, if i add them i end up with a small heater sine, if i sub Chan 1 from Chan 2 i end up with my true heater drive waveform.
EDIT i will add that each Chan on the scope is sitting on 500V DC when that scope shot was taken.
There is a 100K load across the cap before the anodes, but i do not have a load from the cap 0V and heater HT.
I can adjust the heater amplitude from zero to 6V as usual.
The heater phase adjustment makes very little difference.
If you have the time, scratch up a simple schematic of your present setup with location of probes and grounds so we have a clear picture of the current flows. Back of a napkin is OK. This would be helpful and appreciated.
Thanks in advance.
I have attached the diagram from that article see below this is my setup, the cap is connected across the bridge 0V and bridge +V, i also have a 100K across this cap, so to scope i connect to the bridge 0V both probe earths and then each of the scope probes are across each side of the heater.
I am not using RLim
I will draw a full diagram with the cap a bit later.
All i have done is move my load resistor and smoothing cap from the cathode to the anode, while still using the bridge 0V as my 0V reference
unfortunately i don't have a camera here, i will bring it home later to do a video of this.
To recap
If i turn the heaters off the sine's disappear, if i adjust their amplitude then the scoped sines adjust relatively.
I have snapped 2 more shots with the math function subtracting Chan1 fro Chan 2.
The variac feeding the HT does not matter what voltage it's set to, i have turned it right down to give me about 7V DC on the heater(cathode Potential) for which the sines sit on so i can grab a dc scope shot.
So 2 scope shots one is set to AC and the other set to DC, the red chan is the math subtract function wave.
EDIT oh yer just to make sure i still do not have some strange fault on my scope i placed both channels on one side of the heater to check they were both showing the same phase, they were O0
Here's the diagram.
The next thing that needs to be done is try using the anodes as my scope earth and then scope each heater pin.
I could also try adding a load i am sure this will attenuate the sine waveform but i wonder how much, as each device is isolated this is sort of 1 wire stuff, but the question still stands how can each side of the heater filament be showing these waveforms.
Thanks
Peter
Looks to me like capacitive coupling through the output transformer back to the scope grounds. I believe you will get the same effect if you unplug the 5U4 and / or and replace the filament heater with a resistor.
A lot of this depends on how your output transformer is wound. The inter-winding capacitance coupling can act like a center tap on the filament winding, thus giving you the phase difference with respect to ground, especially so if your scope is earthed.
Hi ION
I will try some of what you say, the scope is connected to a battery powered notebook so there is no physical connection to anything.
Taking the valve out will be interesting. O0 i could also disconnect the anodes to see what happens.
What do you chaps make of this
http://www.smeter.net/daily-facts/7/fact22.php
Barkhausen Oscillation
There is an unusual and little-known way to make triode vacuum tubes oscillate at frequencies far above where they normally can be used. The method involves operating the control grid at a moderately high positive voltage with respect to the cathode and the plate at a zero or negative voltage with respect to the cathode. Under these conditions the grid attracts electrons from the cloud of electrons emitted by the hot cathode. Those electrons are accelerated to high velocity by the relatively high positive charge on the grid. Some electrons hit grid wires, but most miss the grid and fly on through toward the plate. However, the plate is negative with respect to the grid, causing most of the electrons to reverse direction and head back toward the grid at high velocity. Some returning electrons hit the grid, but most fly on through toward the cathode. However, the cathode is negative, so most of them reverse again and continue oscillating about the grid. This oscillation mode is known by the few who know about it as Barkhausen Oscillation (different than Barkhausen oscillation criteria). ©2005 Martek International All rights reserved.
These oscillators rely on transit time of the electron cloud.
More here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barkhausen-Kurz_tube
ION looks like it is a well known effect.
That article explains it much better THANKS O0
In a thermionic valve are photons emitted along with electrons from the heater, the reason i ask is if a crt has a cross suspended inside and the electron gun fires at the cross then a shadow appears on the phosphor, now if a magnetic field is applied you get 2 shadows, one moves relative to the strength and direction of the magnetic field, this could be called the magnetic shadow effect, the other shadow is resultant from photon emission, photons do not get deflected by a magnetic field and do not exhibit the magnetic shadow effect.
It probably depends on how hot the heater gets. Not all light is visible to the human eye, so no doubt there will be some photons emitted as well. However, these photons would be emitted in an omnidirectional pattern away from the source.
Thanks Darren, one of these days i will get a valve and dismantle it, i presume it depends if the valve is directly or indirectly heated, i know a CRT has a direct path for photon emission.
ION's & radiant energy must also exhibit this shadow effect i think, where ION's can be deflected.
Question then would be can radiant energy be deflected by a magnetic or electric field, i think the answer should be no.
If a radiant pulse exhibits similar phenomena as photons then the interaction between atoms and the energy transferred is not dependant on the intensity of the radiant burst but by the frequency components of the radiant burst or selective bandwidth, this is why some transients generated by spark gaps have greater disruptive effects than others.
The end result is that i don't really know what i am talking about C.C
From Peterae:
QuoteION's can be deflected.
I can but it is not that easy :)
Hi ION
Great to see you online and that you have not been deflected by storm sally. :)
Wow that thing looked nasty on the TV, times like this we all need back up energy systems to cope with these huge weather swings.
Peter
Ditto, glad to see you weathered the storm. :)
Quote from: Peterae on 2012.11.01, 22:43:29
In a thermionic valve are photons emitted along with electrons from the heater, the reason i ask is if a crt has a cross suspended inside and the electron gun fires at the cross then a shadow appears on the phosphor, now if a magnetic field is applied you get 2 shadows, one moves relative to the strength and direction of the magnetic field, this could be called the magnetic shadow effect, the other shadow is resultant from photon emission, photons do not get deflected by a magnetic field and do not exhibit the magnetic shadow effect.
I'm interested in reading about such an experiment. I thought applying a magnetic field only distorts the electron beam shadow of the cross. Since all electrons are supposedly the same mass and charge there should only be one electron beam shadow of the cross.
As far as 'magnetic shadow casting' goes.... when I was working for my Uncle Sam a magnetic shadow was simply the shape/density change of magnetic field lines (magnetic flux) caused by the presence or movement of anything that could distort those field lines. i.e. A compass needle or a submarine hull in the Earth's magnetic field or a moving vehicle on a highway with those magnetometer-like sensors embedded in the pavement. Magnetic shadow casting was some unexplained method or product that projected a magnetic shadow to hide the permeable object.
I'm sure some similar action went on with CRT's. Maybe, to prevent the effects the Earth's magnetic field had on them?
Thanks Guys
Power was out for several days and some UPS's from the basement hooked to the large batteries in the GE electric tractor helped with lighting and really important things like grinding coffee beans in the morning. ;).
Made me remember how fragile we are, and what a good idea alternate energy sources are.
QuoteI'm interested in reading about such an experiment. I thought applying a magnetic field only distorts the electron beam shadow of the cross. Since all electrons are supposedly the same mass and charge there should only be one electron beam shadow of the cross.
There is only one electron beam shadow but this leaves the undeflected shadow of the photon which was cast by the same source of the gun.
See experiment 2 Maltese cross at the bottom it mentions the photons casting.
http://cronodon.com/Atomic/Electron.html
Quotewhen I was working for my Uncle Sam a magnetic shadow was simply the shape/density change of magnetic field lines (magnetic flux) caused by the presence or movement of anything that could distort those field lines
Here's a paper that looks at the magnetic shadow effect around planet Mars
http://www.terrapub.co.jp/journals/EPS/pdf/2012/6402/64020247.pdf
The magnetic shadow effect seems to be akin to radiant energy, energetic particle deflection which is the result of a magnetic or electric field and a target object in the radiant path, in the case of photons it could be used to separate the particles and because the mass and energy of the radiant stream particles varies it would be possible to cast a varying shadow with distinct groups, a bit like a prism refracts light into streams of different wavelengths.
You could say there are 2 separate effects , electric shadow and magnetic shadow, SM mentioned only Magnetic, this is interesting so i now need to work out why, and i feel that it could be due to him using a solid medium instead of a vacuum in which he creates the refraction of radiation.
Wonderful knowledge on electron emission.
I'd like to expand some idea on this process. It seems to me like a photoelectric effect but this happens to wire. The picture I have illustrate current flow through the wire hitting atoms knocking electron out. Electron eventually fall back to the atom but there is a possibility that it come back with more energy if reflect back from moving medium. This idea is similar to the sling shot effect which steal momentum from other masses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravity_assist