The Christmas Gift is now defined. It will be further enhanced. The oscilloscope test ready boards will be aimed at Universities.
The Chinese New Year will come on Feb 10, 2013. I prayed for Divine Guidance. The answer was - give some Lead-out Energy Research Kits to the underprivileged. Let them learn for free and then pass the knowledge on to others. Prepare 100 such sets. Such extract sets could be given as 2013 Christmas Gift to the 50th anniversary of the old Wah Yan Boys reunion in November.
Mr. TS Lau has gracefully accepted the task as the coordinator of these gift sets. We shall purchase components for these sets in China within the next few days.
Attached is the picture of the cheap Lead-out Energy Research gift set.
Putting two slightly run-down rechargeable AA batteries to the battery charger circuit.
At 12:15 noon, Battery A was at 1.24V, Battery B was at 1.094V.
At 14:09, Battery A was at 1.24V, Battery B was at 1.168V.
At 16:15, Battery A was at 1.20V, Battery B was at 1.196V.
At 17:00, Battery A was at 1.20V, Battery B was at 1.201V! (Both batteries at same voltage.)
At 17:15, Battery A was at 1.20V, Battery B was at 1.205V!! (Is this the magic recharging point??? Forever Lighted Lamp secret???)
The LED light was ON all the time. The two Atten oscilloscopes were connected and showed that the Input Power was almost zero whereas there was appreciable Output Power.
This set up can confirm overunity and can potentially be a Forever Lighted Lamp.
Will keep monitoring. Blessed be the Almighty.....
Repeating the Battery Charger and Forever Lighted Lamp at Tseung's Bedroom.
This Chinese New Year Gift is so important that I decided to repeat it at home.
One of the oscilloscopes had a problem - could not save CSV files. However, it can still be used to show waveforms.
The two rechargeable batteries recharges each other. The resulting voltage sum is higher than at the beginning.
Will check whether the set up produces the Forever Lighted Lamp.... Amen.
It looks like that the Battery Chargers for rechargeable AA Battery are working both at the Office and at the Bedroom lab.
It is also likely that it can be used as a Forever Lighted Lamp. The oscilloscope analysis indicated so. I shall keep monitoring to ensure that there are no unexpected surprises.
My unit is based on the 2n2222 and one LED. Others can do better. However, the theory is the same - lead-out energy....
Praise the Lord.
The shopping at Shenzhen was successful.
I now have enough components for 50 sets of cheap Lead-out Energy Research Kits. All for approximately USD200 or USD4 per set.
Help Seedlings Innovate Foundation Limited has enough funds to cover that to benefit the World.
In addition, I have found people who can solder the oscilloscope test-ready boards.
No stopping of the Divine Wine....
The Chinese New Year will start on Feb 10, 2013. The first occasion to present the Gift to the World is on Feb 2, 2013 at Wah Yan College - my former High School. The School will host a 60 year anniversary celebration of the Building. Many influential old boys are expected to attend.
We have 50 sets of the cheap Lead-out energy Research Kit ready at a days notice. The battery recharger is also doing its job. The LED is shining brightly. The chance of it continue to shine up to Feb 2 is excellent. I shall take it one step a time. First date is Feb 2. Second target day is Feb 10. Third target day is Easter. The major announcement will be Nov 2013. We may have more than 1 Forever Lighted Lamp started in the next few days.
The average no-battery time of the Kit is 20 minutes. The average with battery time is 7 days. The Battery Charger with two rechargeable batteries recharging each other experiment is on going. With Lord's Blessing, it may be the Forever Lighted Lamp.
May the Almighty guide us to benefit the World.
The Chinese New Year Gift that can travel around the World without falling apart.
Attached is the soldered Gift and the price of the components when purchased in bulk in Shenzhen, China. When translated to US dollars, the amount is between 4-5 dollars depending on the Exchange Rate. Labor and shipping costs are NOT included.
For teaching purposes, the breadboard is best. The plan is for Help Seedlings Innovate Foundation to give out a FREE kit if a teacher successfully teaches 5 students. The passing and confirmation requirements are 2 minutes no-battery time, a photo and an email address. A good teacher may have additional opportunities. This Lead-out technology is likely to change the World. 100 FREE kits are planned to be given out by HSIF. If there were donations, more can be given out. Other organizations are welcome to replicate and give out something similar.
It is like the first demo light bulb that could only last 10 seconds. However, the impact was immense.
The oscilloscope analysis confirmed that Output Power was greater than Input Power. That extra energy is the lead-out energy.....
The components for the New Year Chinese Gift can be purchased via Shenzhen Xing Yujia Technology Co. Ltd.
The person in charge is Ms. Lee tel: (China) 13682699995. Email: xyj1B006@163.com. Ms. Lee can speak Cantonese and Putonghua.
For an additional charge, they can build the demo boards for you.
The details of the Cheap Oscilloscope-test-ready board.
The soldered board (by me) is definitely not professional quality. Hopefully, it can stand the shaking and other problems with shipping to the various Universities of the World.
The Load is one LED and an one ohm resistor. Obviously, this can be changed easily by the top universities.
Every one of these boards will be double and triple checked to ensure that they show overunity characteristics on the Atten Oscilloscopes before shipping.
You are all welcome to replicate such a board.
May the Almighty Guide us to benefit the World.
Have a Happy Chinese New Year.
http://www.overunity.com/12686/is-joule-thief-circuit-gets-overunity/msg351169/#msg351169
Watch the TK video carefully. He added a small capacitor across the base resistor and got the normal JT into what he called the "oscillation mode". In this oscillation mode, the 24 LEDs were brighter and used LESS input current!!!
Is it the same or similar technology?
My task is clear - just sow seeds and others will do the farming and harvasting.... Read the Bible!
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=853.msg28028#msg28028
I was planning to run the battery charger for months to confirm overunity. The above post by Prof. Jones showed that his friend already achieved that for over a year. There is no need for me to tied up my two oscilloscopes any more.
Just sow seeds.....
*** Mr. and Mrs. Derek Lam went with me to Shenzhen shopping for electronic components again. We got another Atten Oscilloscope and more importantly, gave out 8 more FREE Lead-out Energy Research Kits. We now should have people who can use the oscilloscope professionally (retailer); solder the boards; teach the seminars and have connections to resources.....
Sowing seeds is the correct path. Divine Guidance cannot be wrong.
The four demo kits available to me as of today.
1. The basic breadboard. It is a matter of getting the components and putting them into a plastic bag to give away with a one page description. There is no assembly. This is ideal for training purposes. We can have many units at short notice. This is the basic seed. Any one can take the bag and get the components from Electronic Stores or order on-line.
2. The polished unit from BSI Energy Holdings is on printed boards and has good quality control. The average no-battery time is 20 minutes. Unfortunately, such units require machine manufacturing and must be ordered in units of 5,000 or more.
3. The hand soldered small board demo. This is the most powerful demo as far as I am concerned. I can put it into a small box with my business cards. It is with me almost all the time. It is always an attraction at small gatherings. A lot of interest has been aroused. Unfortunately, the quality of my soldering was not good enough to ensure consistent quality. The no battery time was anywhere from 3 minutes to 20 minutes. However, I shall have at least 50 units from professionals good at soldering within weeks.
4. The hand soldered oscilloscope test ready board. This board is for Universities or Organizations with at least two high end oscillocopes for data capture and analysis. Each board will be double and triple checked before shipping out. These boards are meant for those interested in confirming overunity. The capacitor will be an add-on item. A variable DC Power Supply may also be necessary. Much tuning can be done. Those serious in Lead-out Energy Research and hunting for "commercial resonance conditions" should consider this carefully.
May the Almighty guide us to benefit the World.
Lawrence Tseung
Director
Help Seedlings Innovate Foundation Limited (Hong Kong)
Mr. Derek Lam and daughter sucessfully did their first soldering board. They were able to move from the plug-in breadboard to the soldered board. This means that they are not worried about transporting of samples.
One of the things discovered was - even when the one inch toroid was used, the number of turns of wiring to produce the best effect differed. The previous batch used 28 turns. The new batch was better with 13 turns. The skill of wiring did play an important role. Thus another tuning is expected when we go for mass production.
Sowing seeds is the correct path for me. Everyone enjoyed the experience. There were no pressure on achieving anything. Fame and Fortune did not come in.
The next lesson will be oscilloscope analysis. Chinese New Year will fall on Feb 10. We still have time to "wrap up" the present.
The Chinese New Year Gift is almost ready - The New Year is on Feb 10, 2013. We still have a few more days to do more polishing.
The 4 impact set ups are displayed here. For those interested in Valentine's Day Gifts, check out Impact 4.
Sow seeds and follow the Divine Guidance.
Lawrence,
Why don't you send me one of your "guaranteed OU" boards, and I'll test it with our new 500MHz Tektronix oscilloscope?
Quote from: poynt99 on 2013.01.30, 01:40:58
Lawrence,
Why don't you send me one of your "guaranteed OU" boards, and I'll test it with our new 500MHz Tektronix oscilloscope?
Have you got two of them? My oscilloscope test-ready boards assume that you can display Input and Output Waveforms at the same time. Or have your oscilloscope got 4 channels? That would be even easier.
Attached is the BMP and CSV file analysis from a sample oscilloscope test-ready board. I inverted the color of the BMP files for easy printing. The first batch of such boards have been allocated to Universities. The next batch (20) from Shenzhen should be ready within weeks after the Chinese New Year. I shall send you one with all the full tests done in both Shenzhen and Hong Kong. This time, the boards are guaranteed to be shipping-safe. You should not need to do any re-soldering like last time.
In case things go wrong - I shall send you another tested and tuned board.
At present, not every hand-built board will automatically show OU. The high quality, machine manufactured printed boards with factory guaranteed specifications are not available yet.
Please publish your tests and detailed analysis. Follow my procedures first and then improve in whatever way you feel fit. Most probably, you will be able to publish the results before the Universities.
Sow seeds....
I have access to my own older 1GHz 4 channel Tek scope, and a brand new 500MHz 4 channels Tek scope.
I will test input vs. output power, but most likely not how you have prescribed. It will be done by taking the average of the instantaneous powers.
The above mentioned paper ends with: "If you make money, please donate 10% net profit to charitable causes".
I bet $1000 that there is no overunity is this setup.
Who bets against me?
You will have to loop the device and if you show that it is self-sustaining, I consider that you win. Easy for you, because easy to loop, the alleged COP is 1.75! ;D
Of course if I win, I will donate 100% of my gambling gains to a charitable cause!
Ex that's not very scientific is it, Poynt has the correct way forward. O0
I'm looking forward to the results thanks for offering Darren.
Quote from: poynt99 on 2013.01.30, 02:43:16
I have access to my own older 1GHz 4 channel Tek scope, and a brand new 500MHz 4 channels Tek scope.
I will test input vs. output power, but most likely not how you have prescribed. It will be done by taking the average of the instantaneous powers.
I shall send one of the first oscilloscope-test-ready kits to Prof. Steven Jones. He has one or even two Atten Oscilloscopes. That is a great help since both of us are familiar with the scope's operation and set up. The attached is the planned packaging. I shall post all the test results here first before shipping.
The verification and confirmation of the oscilloscope-test-ready boards outside Shenzhen and Hong Kong will start shortly. The Divine Revelations are meant to benefit the World - not individuals, companies or countries. Sow seeds.... Let the other Blessed ones do the farming and harvasting.
Quote from: Peterae on 2013.01.30, 08:28:32
Ex that's not very scientific is it, Poynt has the correct way forward. O0
...
You are right, Peterae, it's not scientific, nor is scientific the way the device is presented:
"Divine Guidance cannot be wrong"
"the Almighty guide us to benefit the World"
ltseung888
In any case, if I'm wrong, a charitable cause will get $1000. It's for a good cause!
Unfortunately, my challenge is not yet taken up... nobody convinced by this setup? ;)
Quote from: ltseung888 on 2013.01.31, 04:47:47
I shall send one of the first oscilloscope-test-ready kits to Prof. Steven Jones.
...
Isn't it this one who was the only one to see "evidence" of 8x overunity in a simplistic setup that is now abandoned for good reasons?
Not credible. You should rather adopt the Steorn's attitude: they challenged the most skeptic community, in order to be credible. Unfortunately there was no OU in their setup, but the one convinced by the reality of what he claims, doesn't fear to be reviewed by not convinced people. It's the only way to prove.
ltseung888, I have a measurement equipment, a professional experience in electronics and a concern for truth. You may send me a kit, I will honestly test it and give here public results.
The detailed Instructions for Prof. Steven Jones with his two Atten Oscilloscopes.
Step 1: After receiving the package.
Take the oscilloscope-test-ready board from the plastic box and take off the bubble wrapping. Visually examine for any damage. If no damage, proceed to Step 2. If there were damages, post and get another board.
Step 2: Hook up for the tests assuming two Atten Oscilloscopes are available.
Use Scope A for Input and Scope B for Output. Set up Channel 1 to measure Voltage and Channel 2 to measure Current for both Scopes. Display the Channel 1 Vpp, Channel 1 Vrms, Channel 2 Vpp, Channel 2 Vrms and Channel 1 Frequency on the RHS of the screen as displayed in the BMP scope captures.
Step 3: Connect the Scope Probes to the board as displayed on the picture at the bottom of the board (also shown here)
Scope A Channel 1 positive hooked to ring marked A1. This is also the connection for the positive end of the DC Power Supply.
Scope A Channel 1 negative hooked to ring marked (A2, A3, B2, B4). This is the common ground connection.
Scope A Channel 2 positvie hooked to ring marked A4. This is also the connection for the negative end of the DC Power Supply.
Scope A Channel 2 negative hooked to ring marked (A2, A3, B2, B4). There is no typing mistake. The current direction is indeed connected as A4 to A3. Thus, the Channel 2 invert function should be turn to ON. This is the technique used to ensure common ground for the two Scopes.
Scope B Channel 1 positive hooked to ring marked B1.
Scope B Channel 1 negative hooked to ring marked (A2, A3, B2, B4)
Scope B Channel 2 positive hooked to ring marked B3.
Scope B Channel 2 negative hooked to ring marked (A2,A3,B2,B4)
Step 4: Connect the DC Power Supply and start tuning
Connect the DC Power Supply with positive to ring marked A1 and negative to ring marked A4.
Turn on the power, starting from 0 volts to 1.2 Volts as seen on Scope A Channel 1 Vrms. The LED should start lighting up at around 400mV and reach full brightness at around 1.2V. The LED will remain ON even if the DC Power Supply is turned OFF for at least 2 minutes (prototype passed time).
Turn the DC Power back ON and wait for the frequency as indicated by Scope B (bottom display value) to reach 10KHz approximately.
Step 5 (to be continued)
At this point, compare the waveforms on Scope A and Scope B with those shown below. The Output Channel 1 (Scope B) Vpp, Vrms should greatly exceed that of Input (Scope A). This is expected as the Output Voltage must somehow exceed 3V to turn the LED rated at 3V ON. The Output Channel 2 (Scope B) Vpp, Vrms should also exceed that of Input (Scope). This will indicate good possibliity of Output Power greater than Input Power. Remember: Instantaneous Power = Instantaneous Voltage x Instantaneous Current.
Do not congratulate yourself yet. You have not done Step 5 and beyond.
Step 5: Save the BMP and CSV files
Use the save function on the Atten Oscilloscope to save the BMP and CSV files for Input and Output on an USB. If the two screens show steady values at around 10KHz, there will be no problem even if the readings are taken at a few seconds apart. With this particular prototype, the components were selected to give steady readings.
In some tuning situations such with the capacitor alone, the frequency will keep changing. The waveforms and the COP will also change. Sometimes peaks will appear. The LED will suddenly become very bright for a few seconds. In such situations, we need to press the stop button on both Scopes almost simultaneously. Thus a two Scope set up is essential (or a 4 channel Scope).
Step 6: Put the USB into a PC with Excel to do the analysis
The most important calculation is the multiplication of Instantaneous Voltage and Instantaneous Current to get the Instantaneous Power values. Then calculate the average Power from the 15,000 values. Examine the attached excel file for details.
More can be done with the CSV files such as producing the Voltage, Current and Power Curves. With the average Input and Output Power, we can get the COP. The COP of this particular prototype varied around 2.
Step 7: Post the results and improve with own innovative circuits.
Quote from: poynt99 on 2013.01.30, 02:43:16
I have access to my own older 1GHz 4 channel Tek scope, and a brand new 500MHz 4 channels Tek scope.
I will test input vs. output power, but most likely not how you have prescribed. It will be done by taking the average of the instantaneous powers.
@poynt99,
Please examine reply 22 and 23 on the technique used with the 2 channel Atten Oscilloscopes. Prof. Jones should have received the board and tested it in the next few weeks. The next batch should be available towards the end of Feb. You will have fun playing with it and share the results.
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2013.01.31, 08:31:20
...
ltseung888, I have a measurement equipment, a professional experience in electronics and a concern for truth. You may send me a kit, I will honestly test it and give here public results.
@ltseung888
Did you miss my reply #21?
I would even send the kit back to you after testing.
At the risk of sounding pretentious, it's known that I'm uncompromising with the charlatans and the incompetent individuals, so you should consider that inversely, a positive test by me of your circuit would advocate in favor of a real recognition unlike a test made by a guy who has already claimed himself evidence of overunity outside of any reasonableness.
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2013.01.31, 14:38:05
@ltseung888
Did you miss my reply #21?
I would even send the kit back to you after testing.
At the risk of sounding pretentious, it's known that I'm uncompromising with the charlatans and the incompetent individuals, so you should consider that inversely, a positive test by me of your circuit would advocate in favor of a real recognition unlike a test made by a guy who has already claimed himself evidence of overunity outside of any reasonableness.
@exnihiloest
I shall be sending one of the oscilloscope-test-ready boards to
poynt99 of this Forum. He can send it to you and team for further testing afterwards.
Prof. Jones has connections to BYU and will be testing on behalf of other
Free Energy Organizations. I am familiar with his posts and the 8x claim since I was the one who sent him one of the first FLEET prototypes. His
8x claim prototypes will be revived as I know exactly what is wrong and how to make it right.
Like everybody else (me included), he was working on a hit-or-miss mode. It was like winning the lottery. Now the correct tuning technique has been discovered. Reproducing overunity devices is becoming a scientific process.
Please state the oscilloscopes (2?) in your possession and post your suggested test techniques here. Save your $1,000. That is not fair to you. We have dozens of working OU boards. 30 of them are being triple tested and sent
to top Universities. It is like betting on the Australian Open after the finals match. We already know the result.
I treat the discovery of "energy can be lead-out via electromagnetic resonance" as Divine Revelation no matter what the World thinks.
Before I comment on your procedure Lawrence, I wanted to see how well I could replicate your wave forms in a simulation. Here are the results. The voltages are taken from the same points indicated on your schematic. "S1" emulates the operation of an LED.
Lawrence,
Your proposed method seems to be ok so far, but there is one significant problem in the data you provided in that .xls file; the level for the battery current is very low, but you have used too high a setting (100mV/div) scale on the scope. This seems to be producing less than half a division on the scope, so this will produce very inaccurate results. You want to have at least 2 to 3 divisions peak-to peak on that trace before letting the oscilloscope sample it.
Please try it again, but with much more sensitivity on that channel. I would recommend the 10mV/div setting. You could also change the volts/div on the output scope to 50mV rather than 100mV/div you used.
Until you do this, the evidence for your COP 2.5 claim is shaky at best.
Quote from: poynt99 on 2013.02.01, 00:44:12
Before I comment on your procedure Lawrence, I wanted to see how well I could replicate your wave forms in a simulation. Here are the results. The voltages are taken from the same points indicated on your schematic. "S1" emulates the operation of an LED.
@poynt99,
I think you are getting close. Please do the following:
(1) Put a 2.7V 10F capacitor in parallel with the battery or DC Power Supply. Repeat your measurements. With luck, you may detect OU. I seldom have such luck.
(2) If OU were not detected, turn off DC Power. Wait for all waveforms to disappear and reconnect Power for 30 seconds.
(3) Turn off the DC power supply or take out the battery. The LED or your simulated circuit should still be ON. The Waveforms on your scope should indicate so. If you can display the frequency of the Output Voltage, you may see a change with occasional jumps. If you have the LED, it will show sudden increase in brightness. This should last for at least 2 minutes (minimum time for passing). If the LED continues to be ON with diminished brightness for 20 minutes, your circuit may have a chance to demonstrate OU.
(4) Repeat your measurements - specially at the brightness peaks. You have a good chance of catching OU.
(5) If you have DC Power Supply, you can vary the voltage from as low as 500mV to 1.5V. You may catch OU at some point.
(6) Once you catch OU, try to stay in that condition such as turn Power on and off for a few seconds or so. Repeat your OU measurements and enjoy your success.
Note the use of the
capacitor. The theory is that we are trying to
match LCR resonance with the pulse switching of the transistor. The high farad capacitor serves two purposes. First is LCR oscillation. Second is to store and let out the charge to drift along the frequency range to hunt for OU.
Lead-out Energy comes in at some point. I
t is no long hit or miss like two years ago.*** I just mailed out
Board number 888 to Prof. Jones. You may even be able to confirm OU before him if you can do the above. Amen.
Rude comments deleted.
Quote from: ltseung888 on 2013.02.01, 05:41:07
@poynt99,
I think you are getting close. Please do the following:
(1) Put a 2.7V 10F capacitor in parallel with the battery or DC Power Supply. Repeat your measurements. With luck, you may detect OU. I seldom have such luck.
(2) If OU were not detected, turn off DC Power. Wait for all waveforms to disappear and reconnect Power for 30 seconds.
(3) Turn off the DC power supply or take out the battery. The LED or your simulated circuit should still be ON. The Waveforms on your scope should indicate so. If you can display the frequency of the Output Voltage, you may see a change with occasional jumps. If you have the LED, it will show sudden increase in brightness. This should last for at least 2 minutes (minimum time for passing). If the LED continues to be ON with diminished brightness for 20 minutes, your circuit may have a chance to demonstrate OU.
(4) Repeat your measurements - specially at the brightness peaks. You have a good chance of catching OU.
(5) If you have DC Power Supply, you can vary the voltage from as low as 500mV to 1.5V. You may catch OU at some point.
(6) Once you catch OU, try to stay in that condition such as turn Power on and off for a few seconds or so. Repeat your OU measurements and enjoy your success.
Note the use of the capacitor. The theory is that we are trying to match LCR resonance with the pulse switching of the transistor. The high farad capacitor serves two purposes. First is LCR oscillation. Second is to store and let out the charge to drift along the frequency range to hunt for OU. Lead-out Energy comes in at some point. It is no long hit or miss like two years ago.
*** I just mailed out Board number 888 to Prof. Jones. You may even be able to confirm OU before him if you can do the above. Amen.
A well made standard joule thief with a 10f cap would run an LED bright for 20 minute's
Quote:-(6) Once you catch OU, try to stay in that condition such as turn Power on and off for a few seconds or so. Repeat your OU measurements and enjoy your success.
Is this to recharge the 10f cap? so as it can run for another 20 minute's?
It is good to see you are sending poynt99 a test unit-he will give you the run down on what your system is doing,and how well it dose it.
He is very carful and accurate with his testing.
Quote from: poynt99 on 2013.02.01, 01:25:23
Lawrence,
Your proposed method seems to be ok so far, but there is one significant problem in the data you provided in that .xls file; the level for the battery current is very low, but you have used too high a setting (100mV/div) scale on the scope. This seems to be producing less than half a division on the scope, so this will produce very inaccurate results. You want to have at least 2 to 3 divisions peak-to peak on that trace before letting the oscilloscope sample it.
Please try it again, but with much more sensitivity on that channel. I would recommend the 10mV/div setting. You could also change the volts/div on the output scope to 50mV rather than 100mV/div you used.
Until you do this, the evidence for your COP 2.5 claim is shaky at best.
@poynt99,
Here are the results for a similar prototype with COP = 2.6. The two BMP files used different scaling but the Input Current curve was magnified to show the fluctuation. In reality, we have the CSV file which contained the sampled values. We could use EXcel to do any type of analysis or display.
Quote from: tinman on 2013.02.01, 10:23:36
A well made standard joule thief with a 10f cap would run an LED bright for 20 minute's
Quote:-(6) Once you catch OU, try to stay in that condition such as turn Power on and off for a few seconds or so. Repeat your OU measurements and enjoy your success.
Is this to recharge the 10f cap? so as it can run for another 20 minute's?
Send poynt99 a test unit-he will give you the run down on what your system is doing,and how well it dose it.
He is very carful and accurate with his testing.
This shouldnt be a problem for you if your circuit is indeed OU.
@Tinman,
Trust the oscilloscope analysis. Poynt99 has a 4 channel scope that can do the display and analysis. He will receive a triple tested board at the Second batch towards the
end of Feb. Sorry, the first batch of 30 boards have been allocated to top Universities.
If he has a 2.7V 10F capacitor and a well built JT similar to mine, he could get the LEDs to light for 20 minutes as you commented. He can then do the analysis without my board. He can
confirm OU without my board!!! That can happen much earlier than end of Feb.
*** One experiment that has been done is to have hundreds of LEDs powered through the FLEET board with DC Power supply ON for 10 seconds and OFF for 2 minutes. The LEDs appeared to have the same brightness. The saving in electricity bill greatly impressed one of the supporters... More on that later. Confirm OU first.
Lighting the LEDs is NOT the issue here.
The issue is confirming OU from the DSO analysis....
Quote from: tinman on 2013.02.01, 10:23:36
...
Is this to recharge the 10f cap? so as it can run for another 20 minute's?
...
When a circuit working at some frequency is alleged to recharge its power source, each period of the signal being repeated identically, this means that energy must be sequentially consumed and provided in a single signal period.
Therefore we don't need supercap or battery. We just need a capacitor whose the value is enough to smooth the current over few periods.
From the viewpoint of the capacitor, the powered circuit is viewed as a resistance either positive when the capacitor provides current, or negative when the circuit recharges the capacitor. The time constant being RC and to smooth the current needing an integration over few periods that we may choose by excess a hundred periods, then a capacitor C=100*T/R must perfectly work, T being the period of the frequency.
Suppose the working frequency is 10 Khz, the required voltage 10v and the current 0.1A, R=10/0.1=100ohm, T=10
-4 so C=100*10
-4/100=100µF.
The need to use supercap or battery instead of well sized capacitors to power alleged self-charging devices is the sign of mistakes or scams.
Quote from: ltseung888 on 2013.02.01, 10:39:47
@Tinman,
Trust the oscilloscope analysis.
The issue is confirming OU from the DSO analysis....
I don't believe that this convinces people.
In my view, the best method is to start with batteries with a known level of charge
and to determine the level of charge of these batteries after the run.
Lawrence.
I don't see how the capacitor makes any difference in the circuit at all, other than smoothing out any ripple voltage across the battery. Of course the circuit will run on the capacitor until it drains...what is the point of that?
With reference to my scope voltage or power traces, what is missing?
Lawrence,
Before you send me one of your boards, please post your measurements on it so we can compare. Include the .xls file.
Thanks.
Quote from: Paul-R on 2013.02.01, 11:08:32
I don't believe that this convinces people.
In my view, the best method is to start with batteries with a known level of charge
and to determine the level of charge of these batteries after the run.
I agree to an extent. I think a multitude of methods need to be considered. I have built many passive networks, circuits etc, which drastically change their ideal operational point as a capacitor fills, battery voltage changes and so on. When batteries are involved photochemistry becomes involved. They may behave very differently based on rate of charge, potential applied, chemical makeup of the battery itself, loss due to charging process (if battery is 80% at charging and there is a 10 percent gain on input, there is still a rundown situation). Measurement is not my specialty, although I am not ignorant of what should be done. However I do not see a mechanism for gain in this circuit, but we shall see soon enough.
Quote from: poynt99 on 2013.02.01, 13:47:55
Lawrence.
I don't see how the capacitor makes any difference in the circuit at all, other than smoothing out any ripple voltage across the battery. Of course the circuit will run on the capacitor until it drains...what is the point of that?
With reference to my scope voltage or power traces, what is missing?
@poynt99,
Please check the TK video on how a
capacitor changed the whole characteristics of a JT. (reply 206)
http://www.overunity.com/12686/is-joule-thief-circuit-gets-overunity/msg349617/#msg349617
Do the experiment with the capacitor. TK
did not use a super cap but he got
resonance also.... TK did not like my using the term
resonance - so I used
Tseung Resonance. There are many ways to skin a cat. Using a super cap is one of them.... The issue here is to verify and
confirm OU with oscilloscopes. Just do the expeiment and see the
strange results.
You can also use the TK technique with small CAP and confirm OU at "oscillation mode" with your 4 channel Scope. TK did not have such Scopes.
The full picture, video, results of every test (at least triple) will be posted here before the board is shipped to you. Just be patient. Your board is being built in Shenzhen by people with soldering experience.
Your scope pictures are fine. But
add the capacitor and the Input Current will be lower and the Output Current will be higher at some conditions. Hunt for OU then. Do you have a DC power supply? I used less than 1.0V on the last post to get a higher COP.
Lawrence,
TK was putting a 70nF cap across the 1k base resistor, not across the battery. They are two quite different things.
I cannot understand the gobbldegook about in vs out ,rms vs peak, earth return , etc etc .
While it fascinating to learn just how well we need to scrutinise measurements ,the goal is surely self run.
spreadsheets are great at tax time to make it so confusing that your tax is minimised.
or so confusing that we are all broke yet still come up with new terms to describe something like the worlds economy that aint working.
If the thing can run itself with just an appropriate cap ...NOT gigofarads.
It self proves its own operation and nobody needs to establish instrument errors, which school they went to or if their
imaginary freiends may are giving them a hand .
Am I missing something important?
If i remember rightly discoveries are made ....prior to the full anal asis
I dont mean to offend anybody but there seems to be an elephant in this room
Quote from: poynt99 on 2013.02.01, 23:17:57
Lawrence,
TK was putting a 70nF cap across the 1k base resistor, not across the battery. They are two quite different things.
@poynt99,
The point I was trying to make is - adding a capacitor does make a difference. See the following video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdzXf6H1PiY&feature=youtu.be
If you want to catch OU with the technique I descibed,
use a capacitor...
Quote from: gridbias on 2013.02.01, 23:49:30
I cannot understand the gobbldegook about in vs out ,rms vs peak, earth return , etc etc .
While it fascinating to learn just how well we need to scrutinise measurements ,the goal is surely self run.
spreadsheets are great at tax time to make it so confusing that your tax is minimised.
or so confusing that we are all broke yet still come up with new terms to describe something like the worlds economy that aint working.
If the thing can run itself with just an appropriate cap ...NOT gigofarads.
It self proves its own operation and nobody needs to establish instrument errors, which school they went to or if their
imaginary freiends may are giving them a hand .
Am I missing something important?
If i remember rightly discoveries are made ....prior to the full anal asis
I dont mean to offend anybody but there seems to be an elephant in this room
I find this bit of Truth totally intoxicating while I have my bowl of chile and Carte blanche. Are the plates of the capacitor used equally parallel at all junctions of discharge?
If done correctly a C.O.P. of .01 can be of immense use.
Quote from: gridbias on 2013.02.01, 23:49:30
I cannot understand the gobbldegook about in vs out ,rms vs peak, earth return , etc etc .
While it fascinating to learn just how well we need to scrutinise measurements ,the goal is surely self run.
I agree 100% with you, Gridbias.
A claim of output power>input should not even be made without sefrunning mode, it's a dishonnest claim from pretentious ignorants, or from egocentric people for self-flatering or from scammers to make the buzz and earn money.
Quote
...
Am I missing something important?
If i remember rightly discoveries are made ....prior to the full anal asis
I dont mean to offend anybody but there seems to be an elephant in this room
or a troll.
And a troll should be treated as a troll. It's disappointing to see that good people here (seem apparently) pay the same attention to a troll and his pseudo-scientific gibberish, than to any else work from worth experimenters, while they should send such people back to their nets.
Quote from: gridbias on 2013.02.01, 23:49:30
I cannot understand the gobbldegook about in vs out ,rms vs peak, earth return , etc etc .
While it fascinating to learn just how well we need to scrutinise measurements ,the goal is surely self run.
spreadsheets are great at tax time to make it so confusing that your tax is minimised.
or so confusing that we are all broke yet still come up with new terms to describe something like the worlds economy that aint working.
If the thing can run itself with just an appropriate cap ...NOT gigofarads.
It self proves its own operation and nobody needs to establish instrument errors, which school they went to or if their
imaginary freiends may are giving them a hand .
Am I missing something important?
If i remember rightly discoveries are made ....prior to the full anal asis
I dont mean to offend anybody but there seems to be an elephant in this room
You've basically summed up what most of us think of Tseung's so-called Chinese New Year Gift!
Can't wait to see what special pressy Tseung will be giving the world next year? C.C
I also agree with Gridbias post #41, Exn, and Farrah.
There is indeed a large elephant in the room and he has not been shown the door out of undue kindness I suppose.
Grandiose claims and megalo-maniacal delusions do not mix well with good solid science.
I categorize this stuff under "vaporware".
A self runner would end all discussions of misinterpreted measurement. O0
A looped circuit is easy to configure, (see: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=604.msg25878) especially in the case of the humble blocking oscillator, which has been around nearly since the invention of the vacuum tube, but lately has been re-labelled as an invention of the divine master.
Apparently all the reputable folk that have designed instruments that use blocking oscillators such as Tektronics and others have missed this "Tseung Resonance" in their testing . ;)
Nevermind how long you can light a LED to some arbitrary brightness level, this is not solid measurement.
I hope Poynt's test results can put this thing to bed one way or another without wasting too much of his time.
Quote from: giantkiller on 2013.02.02, 02:39:00
I find this bit of Truth totally intoxicating while I have my bowl of chile and Carte blanche. Are the plates of the capacitor used equally parallel at all junctions of discharge?
If done correctly a C.O.P. of .01 can be of immense use.
.01 how many times per second?
My guess is that you have some kind of asymetric ring of l/c in this thought experiment .
my mind game is to imagine the poles as wind and somehow the wind spins a turbine which will also develop its own poles as it winds up.
plesase excuse me as i have just had extensive surgery and am in a morphine haze
In no way would i discourage any body from experimenting ,its just that guys like poynt put so much time into what becomes a distraction and the goal posts are moved to where they are defending. Rather than asking the obvious .
I have always been fascinated with this simple one .
take a transformer mains to 9v or so, put the cro on the mains side and a switch shorting the 9v winding
throw the switch and see the small but repeatable energy release .
Im sure this must have been analysed to pieces before , i just cant remember ,or wont remember , perhaps wont accept the conclusion
gotta lay down
QuoteMy guess is that you have some kind of asymetric ring of l/c in this thought experiment
Yes. But this is where the ring fetish starts. That is why I went to the Farnsworth Multipactor linear model. Easier to modify.
Quoteplesase excuse me as i have just had extensive surgery and am in a morphine haze
Ah yes. It is the dreams that mature you.
@poynt99,
The target date when I receive the oscilloscope-test-ready boards from Shenzhen is Feb 22. After receiving them, I shall do the triple checks and posts all results here. Please email me the address you would like me to mail the board to.
Plan on getting the board for testing towards the end of Feb or beginning of March. Please use your 4 Channle Tek Scope to test the board as shipped. See if your results are compariable with mine. You can then do whatever you like with the board. You are welcome to replicate or pass it to other Forum members to do further tests.
The tasks at hand are now defined:
(1) Triple test the oscilloscope-test-ready board to confirm overunity in Shenzhen and Hong Kong.
(2) Post the test procedures, photos, videos, xls files etc.
(3) Ship to Poynt99 for verification and confirmation tests.
May the Almighty guide us to benefit the World.
Quote from: ltseung888 on 2013.02.03, 09:03:12
...
The tasks at hand are now defined:
(1) Triple test the oscilloscope-test-ready board to confirm overunity in Shenzhen and Hong Kong.
...
If this test is a prerequisite, it should have been done instead of bothering everybody and wasting his time with this thread of multiple useless posts!
Quote
May the Almighty guide us to benefit the World
If his goal was to guide us, provided that he exists, we would have free energy for years! But he is probably not more skilled in electronics and physics than the fervent but idiot believers who take their faith for science.
Quote from: ION on 2013.02.02, 14:59:22
A self runner would end all discussions of misinterpreted measurement. O0
Agreed, that's all it would take. So simple. Alas, this is the one hurdle that is never overcome, the one thing that anyone and everyone making these fantastical claims never achieves.
Tseung, just get one Divine Revelation to run another one and you're laughing - and all your sins will be forgiven! ;)
I think that any of us reading this nonsensical rubbish are just wasting our time - most of us know that Tseung is just interpreting things in a way that suits his purpose, and that continually playing the 'God card' is just a way to get mass support from the religious constituency wherein science plays a very secondary part to magic.
Ok Lawrence. I'll wait for the board.
Quote from: poynt99 on 2013.02.03, 15:26:28
Ok Lawrence. I'll wait for the board.
@poynt99,
Thank you, I got your mail address. I shall have all the tests, photos etc. posted here before sending the board. Meanwhile I shall just let others have fun and post whatever they want. Most people are impatient. Just give them an outlet. I have gone through the "endure insult training". Their posts will not affect me.
With your 4 channel scope, can you get the average output power and average input power directly or do you need to do the Excel spreadsheet analysis?
Quote from: ltseung888 on 2013.02.03, 21:53:45
@poynt99,
Thank you, I got your mail address. I shall have all the tests, photos etc. posted here before sending the board. Meanwhile I shall just let others have fun and post whatever they want. Most people are impatient. Just give them an outlet. I have gone through the "endure insult training". Their posts will not affect me.
With your 4 channel scope, can you get the average output power and average input power directly or do you need to do the Excel spreadsheet analysis?
The Tek scopes I have provide a power measurement directly through multiplication and averaging.
Quote from: poynt99 on 2013.02.04, 01:54:14
The Tek scopes I have provide a power measurement directly through multiplication and averaging.
Great, I envy you. You do not need to do hours of analysis after CSV file save. So you can have average Input power and average Output Power as soon as the sampling is done. This means you can accurately show the
change of COP with time (Diminishing charge on the capacitor or frequency change.)
The board I shall send you already shows OU with both DC Power Supply and Capacitor connected. A variable DC Power Supply will save us much hunting time. As shown in the TK video, a higher charged battery may not work at all. Do you have a DC Power Supply?
If so, I can provide the various "best" voltages for highest COP. Otherwise, use slightly run-down batteries at 1.0 to 1.2V. Since each hand-built board is somewhat different, I shall provide the test results for your specific board.
I have power supplies. It's just a question if they'll go down low enough in voltage.
Half dead batteries..you know the ones that are chemically declining and in a state of non linear change , very good for reviving with a few pulses of the right shape to allow divine intervention to occour when the semiconductor threshold is a large portion of the total supply voltage ...really??seriously??
I see it now ... light from dead batteries.... Another breakthrough from devine labs
Good on you for your persistance Poynt . I admire what you are trying to do . Lawrence is also doing what he thinks is making the world a better place .Perhaps us non belivers can be shown some kind of light in some unexpected way.
I wonder if the excess energy could be used to make an oscillator run ?
"How can we apply Divine principles to electricity generation, harvesting energy from nature that is freely available and everywhere present?"
http://pesn.com/2013/01/27/9602271_Keppe-v-Mormon-Headquarters_zip_code_disinversion_counter-point/
There is a strong competition between the sectarian and religious bigots!
Which church and which god will win?
The suspense is unbearable! ;D
@gridbias
QuoteHalf dead batteries..you know the ones that are chemically declining and in a state of non linear change , very good for reviving with a few pulses of the right shape to allow divine intervention to occour when the semiconductor threshold is a large portion of the total supply voltage ...really??seriously??
Yes really and seriously, you see the trick here is to apply intelligent thought to the problem rather than speculate. For instance I have tested old 12v batteries that could maintain a voltage of 50v across the terminals for several minutes and this voltage produced a measurable momentary increase in the discharge current. This is very easy to explain as the internal capacitance has been increased due to sulfation of the plates and we should be clear that the capacitance acts on each individual pair of plates and not as an external lumped sum element. In fact, that is a measurable fact, I have also had a 12v battery hold a momentary charge in excess of 100v for upwards of 500ms and this produced momentary high current flows as a result.
I have also tested old Nicad and Nihm batteries and the effects are almost the same however there is a difference due to the make up of the batteries. We should also understand the effect is best produced by discharging an inductance through the battery repeatedly producing an incremental increase of the voltage as the internal capacitance is charged. This can be 5 to 10 sharp impulses within a few ms then a rest state of a ms then a discharge impulse from the battery.
I have also used a 12v battery as an integral part of an oscillator, the battery is in series with an external switched inductance and another series capacitor. The external capacitor is charged through the external inductor from the battery then the capacitor is discharged through the same inductor with the polarity reversed back into the battery. The internal capacitance of the battery retains this higher voltage and then produces AC oscillations in another separate series circuit. In which case we could say the battery has used a small part of it's own energy to set a series circuit including itself in oscillation due to it's own internal capacitance
I could go on for hours however I would hope you understand my point here, you seem to be critical of others work due to your own lack of imagination if not understanding. A simple battery can have many different properties and be used in many unique ways however we should understand that we impose many of the limitations we think are present not the battery, it is what it is.
AC
@Exn
QuoteThere is a strong competition between the sectarian and religious bigots!
Which church and which god will win?
We could also throw in the science bigots as well, tens of billions of dollars spent on smashing atoms and it has not helped one single person, tens of billions spent on cancer and aids research and nothing in the way of a cure and the list goes on ad nauseam. It makes one wonder how anyone could have so many resources at their disposal and claim to be so intelligent yet do so little.
You see any claim requires proof and the proof we have tells us things are not getting better they are getting worse despite their so called best efforts. I can tell you one thing, if I was a businessman and they were my employee's I would fire 90% of them because they cannot or will not produce tangible results for their claims.
It's a whacky world we live in and it is broken but I believe there is a change coming in our future. People have had enough of the BS from everyone concerned and there is a growing trend towards the decentralization of power. People are taking their own matters into their own hands and rejecting the mind numbing bureaucracy and waste and hollow promises we see today. People are open sourcing science and technology and sharing with one another on an unprecedented level.
I just got involved with this group, http://publiclaboratory.org/tool/spectrometer, now imagine everyone on the planet being able to trace pollution back to it's true source inexpensively, imagine having tangible proof from hundreds or thousands of sources and holding those responsible accountable. I don't blame any one group for our problems however I do believe what we are doing now does not work and people deserve a chance to make a difference without being criticized for it by those who do nothing.
AC
AC
Now thats a very nice thing to have !,plus Do it your self Set ups!!
http://publiclaboratory.org/tool/spectrometer
Have you built one?
Thx
Chet
Quote from: allcanadian on 2013.02.04, 15:51:06
@gridbias
Yes really and seriously, you see the trick here is to apply intelligent thought to the problem rather than speculate. For instance I have tested old 12v batteries that could maintain a voltage of 50v across the terminals for several minutes and this voltage produced a measurable momentary increase in the discharge current. This is very easy to explain as the internal capacitance has been increased due to sulfation of the plates and we should be clear that the capacitance acts on each individual pair of plates and not as an external lumped sum element. In fact, that is a measurable fact, I have also had a 12v battery hold a momentary charge in excess of 100v for upwards of 500ms and this produced momentary high current flows as a result.
I have also tested old Nicad and Nihm batteries and the effects are almost the same however there is a difference due to the make up of the batteries. We should also understand the effect is best produced by discharging an inductance through the battery repeatedly producing an incremental increase of the voltage as the internal capacitance is charged. This can be 5 to 10 sharp impulses within a few ms then a rest state of a ms then a discharge impulse from the battery.
I have also used a 12v battery as an integral part of an oscillator, the battery is in series with an external switched inductance and another series capacitor. The external capacitor is charged through the external inductor from the battery then the capacitor is discharged through the same inductor with the polarity reversed back into the battery. The internal capacitance of the battery retains this higher voltage and then produces AC oscillations in another separate series circuit. In which case we could say the battery has used a small part of it's own energy to set a series circuit including itself in oscillation due to it's own internal capacitance
I could go on for hours however I would hope you understand my point here, you seem to be critical of others work due to your own lack of imagination if not understanding. A simple battery can have many different properties and be used in many unique ways however we should understand that we impose many of the limitations we think are present not the battery, it is what it is.
AC
i agree and concor with a full understanding of the variable half dead batteries ...i was tounge in cheek
@Ramset
QuoteNow thats a very nice thing to have !,plus Do it your self Set ups!!
http://publiclaboratory.org/tool/spectrometer
Have you built one?
Yes I built the desktop model from the plans on their website and it works very well. I plan on building another flow through detector using an Arduino and a CCD module to digitize the output signatures so I can pinpoint hydrocarbon and organic materials as well as heavy metals. Then this will be integrated into my biological sand/anthracite/UV filter system for my well water to the house, I also drilled my own wells using this nifty little device--http://www.drillyourownwell.com/. I hit good water at 30' in about five hours and the flow rate is around 20gpm as well the total cost for the house well plus a shallow well to feed my horses trough was less than $200 for everything including the DIY driller, casing and screens.
It's actually kind of funny when I tell people I drilled my own wells for under $200 and have all the clean fresh water I can use because they can't seem to wrap their mind around how simple it is. It may have helped that I have industrial water treatment experience so designing and building my own bulletproof system wasn't a big stretch and I use a triple redundant treatment system which is much better and safer than any industrial/commercial system. As they say -- If you don't have water you don't have anything.
AC
Quote from: allcanadian on 2013.02.04, 19:31:00
@Exn
We could also throw in the science bigots as well, tens of billions of dollars spent on smashing atoms
...
If tens of billions of dollars had not been spent in the past for such projects, we would not have nuclear power plants.
Sorry, but I prefer to have energy although it is not free, instead of nothing at all or of absurd promises from the bigots of the divine overunity.
Quote from: allcanadian on 2013.02.04, 19:31:00
@Exn
We could also throw in the science bigots as well, tens of billions of dollars spent on smashing atoms and it has not helped one single person, tens of billions spent on cancer and aids research and nothing in the way of a cure and the list goes on ad nauseam. It makes one wonder how anyone could have so many resources at their disposal and claim to be so intelligent yet do so little.
You see any claim requires proof and the proof we have tells us things are not getting better they are getting worse despite their so called best efforts. I can tell you one thing, if I was a businessman and they were my employee's I would fire 90% of them because they cannot or will not produce tangible results for their claims.
It's a whacky world we live in and it is broken but I believe there is a change coming in our future. People have had enough of the BS from everyone concerned and there is a growing trend towards the decentralization of power. People are taking their own matters into their own hands and rejecting the mind numbing bureaucracy and waste and hollow promises we see today. People are open sourcing science and technology and sharing with one another on an unprecedented level.
I just got involved with this group, http://publiclaboratory.org/tool/spectrometer, now imagine everyone on the planet being able to trace pollution back to it's true source inexpensively, imagine having tangible proof from hundreds or thousands of sources and holding those responsible accountable. I don't blame any one group for our problems however I do believe what we are doing now does not work and people deserve a chance to make a difference without being criticized for it by those who do nothing.
AC
Dont forget the common cold.
We can navigate robots on mars from earth-but we dont have a cure for the common cold ???
To much money to be lost in pharmaceutical's i think-why would they release a cure for anything that would cost them a large wad of cash in droped drug sales.
This is reality and the world we live in-money befor death.
The Chinese New Year Gift ?
If it is a gift,then please send us all one.
AC
Thx for the response on the spectrometer [I had no idea].
Regarding your well drilling
quote
It's actually kind of funny when I tell people I drilled my own wells for under $200 and have all the clean fresh water I can use because they can't seem to wrap their mind around how simple it is.
----------------
I run heavy Equipment at a place where I keep My house boat down In LI sound [sort of a barter set up they call me for big Jobs].
Well they had a storm wipe out a dozen or so support poles for the floating docks [closed down the yard].
The crane and barge scenario was crazy expensive for installing the 60 ft 1500lb poles.plus booked for weeks with the storm.
I ended up doing it like your well driller 3 men used the high tides to stand em up [tripod lines tied off],the tide goes out ,gravity comes to visit [big time]
a water hose /air jet pipe alongside at the bottom WHOOSH...........
Yes its hard for peeps to grasp the concept,I won a bet with the owner on that one .[standing them up and driving them in with out a crane].
Memories.... :)
Thx
Chet
Quote from: exnihiloest
Sorry, but I prefer to have energy although it is
not free, instead of nothing at all or of absurd
promises from the bigots of the divine overunity.
If you are not yet aware of it, one day in the near
future you shall: All of the energy which exists is
from a single source. A living source. It is given
to us freely. A corrupt system of monopoly and
distribution has been put into place by man to
generate monetary profit for the Exploiters.
@tinman
QuoteWe can navigate robots on mars from earth-but we dont have a cure for the common cold Huh?
To much money to be lost in pharmaceutical's i think-why would they release a cure for anything that would cost them a large wad of cash in droped drug sales.
This is reality and the world we live in-money befor death.
I can only presume this is the case based on the complete lack of results and believe science has become a career where job protection and corporate interests overrule progress. We should never underestimate the lengths to which some people will go to protect their own self interests and there is a great deal of data suggesting near one half of all scientists have lied or rejected data which did not agree with popular opinion, it is a sorry state of affairs and lacks integrity.
Fundamentally I look at this from a slightly different perspective, their are
people, good or bad who may occupy any position anywhere. As such it is a mistake to label any institution such as government or science as good or bad or having integrity because it relies solely on the people as individuals within them. An institution is an entity and has no integrity or compassion nor does it deserve respect until it is earned by the actions of the people within it.
It is the people who are making critical errors in judgement and lack integrity not the institution.
AC
Quote from: Dumped on 2013.02.05, 19:14:18
...All of the energy which exists is from a single source. A living source. It is given to us freely.
...
Prove it!
You assertion will be credible only when you will not have to pay your electricity.
In the meantime your speech is indistinguishable from that of prophets promising the paradise on earth.
Quote from: allcanadian on 2013.02.05, 20:20:50
...
It is the people who are making critical errors in judgement and lack integrity not the institution.
...
I agree 100% ("Einmal ist keinmal" as the Germans say :) ).
And this way of thinking reinforces the sense of responsibility of the individuals who tend often to offload their responsibilities onto the society and its institutions that moreover they criticize.
In our domain the best example is the academic science. Individuals who have not produced any useful device, reject their responsibility onto the academic science instead of accepting the fact that they have been too stupid or too lazy to have invented and built what they dream.
Quote from: exnihiloest
Prove it!
You assertion will be credible only when you will not
have to pay your electricity.
In the meantime your speech is indistinguishable from
that of prophets promising the paradise on earth.
Aye, rest assured. It will be proven to you [and all who
are not yet able to see] as it has been promised. The
proof will not be forthcoming in accordance with your
[our] demands and desires, but only as the prophets
have foretold that it will occur.
There are a number of events which must yet transpire
because the World is presently in the hands of a very
wicked group. As they psycho-pathically work to
consolidate their control over the entire Earth and all
of its People, their deceptions and propaganda will
tend to awaken those who are seeking truth and justice.
The Political Weirdness which seems to have taken hold
of the Nations will intensify and the World is going to
become an even wilder and crazier place. The common
folk and People will suffer greatly.
Then, at its due time, all of this badness will be brought to
a conclusion and the promised Paradise will be made a
reality. But, until that time, we are in for a series of very
difficult circumstances and conditions. War and rumors of
war across the globe.
Well said , and may I take this opportunity to thank you for your input as somebody who seems to know the score as well as any body I have met .
The fact is that our time is comming and this technology can only exist in an enlightened race .We are getting there .
It is the psycopath that prevents us from advancing . Explore the phsycopath within your self and it becomes more clear.
keep on dumping
Yes we have "wicked groups" at the head of nations, corrupted industrial and political leaders and so on but they only reflect the general population. They are more visible because they are more powerful but they have the same intellectual and moral defaults. Where there is a majority of mediocre people, the elites are also mediocre. It's a question of epoch and of people of that epoch, ours.
The idea of a conspiracy against a "paradise on earth" and therefore against the free energy is the childish credo of those who want offload their own responsibilities. Nothing prevents the spread of useful inventions if they work. It's not enough to dream a "free energy for everyone everywhere", it must be made. "How" is the only question.
Remember that the communists also wanted a paradise on earth and claimed to build it, and we saw their catastrophic result. Political or religious ideologies have never solved the problems of the past so there is no reason that they could solve the present nor the future problems like that of energy, even if the ideology is now named ecologism, freenergylogy or pseudosciencebetterthanacademicscience.
We have a technical problem with energy, relative to the cost and the pollution. It's only a question of pragmatic science for a material progress, not a question of ideology. To be constructive here, everyone should choose: ideology or science, i.e. illusions and conspiracies or knowledge and reality. To help in choosing your camp or in understanding an already made choice, here is a tool (http://tinyurl.com/ba9olu2) (you may replace "religion" by "politics", it works as well) ;D.
Exn said:
QuoteNothing prevents the spread of useful inventions if they work.
I agree. And in regards to free energy devices:
With the internet information spreads extremely rapidly. A simple encrypted .pdf file would go viral from one or more upload sites or it could be disguised as a movie title with torrent sharing.
But all this clandestine stuff is not even necessary. Copper wire, transistors, magnets and other simple components are ubiquitous.
People who constantly play the "suppression" card are usually not thinking things out or are selling books or DVD's with "secrets".
Rather than suppression, I see a lack of worthy ideas for OU.
@Exn
QuoteWe have a technical problem with energy, relative to the cost and the pollution. It's only a question of pragmatic science for a material progress, not a question of ideology.
I would think it is just the opposite because almost everyone on this planet seems to think they should receive their just rewards from the very conception of the idea to the final sale of the product. Thus the ideology is that for something to have value one must profit from it in some way. One would think that not destroying our planet and our children's future must have some value but apparently I must be mistaken.
This also relates to what I call the "no fault clause" which is when people believe nobody is to blame simply because they did not know any better or did know better and did nothing about it.
It's really kind of comical and one could say most adults act just like little children in this regard. I ask my child -- "who ate those cookies" and he say's " I don't know" but we know different. Then we ask an adult -- where did all those government funds go, who stole that money, who created all this pollution, who cut down all those tree's, who killed all those fish, who made all these people sick and the answer is usually always -- " I don't know".
At which point one could assume they are ignorant, incompetent or are lying not unlike a little child with their hand stuck in the cookie jar. I mean no offense but most days I am pretty sure I am stuck in a world full of very large children because they act immature and despite what they may claim their actions generally prove otherwise.
The ideology is flawed, value is not a function of profit and yes someone is to blame.
AC
Quote from: exnihiloest
Yes we have "wicked groups" at the head of nations,
corrupted industrial and political leaders and so on
but they only reflect the general population. They are
more visible because they are more powerful but they
have the same intellectual and moral defaults. Where
there is a majority of mediocre people, the elites are
also mediocre. It's a question of epoch and of people
of that epoch, ours.
It would seem that you have yet to acquire contact
with the upper echelons of control and the network
which actively carries out the Agenda. There are
several layers of those who would like to think themselves
"Elite." Most are being deceived and are nothing more
than "useful idiots."
Quote from: exnihiloest
The idea of a conspiracy against a "paradise on earth"
and therefore against the free energy is the childish
credo of those who want offload their own responsibilities.
Nothing prevents the spread of useful inventions if they
work. It's not enough to dream a "free energy for everyone
everywhere", it must be made. "How" is the only question.
Unfortunately, "free energy" as most would hope to see it
manifest is not possible; the vast majority of devices which
have been promoted as "discoveries" are, sadly, hoaxes.
That you haven't yet been headsmacked by the "conspiracy"
(The Network) could explain your viewpoint. There is of
course another possibility but we'll hope that is not the case.
Quote from: exnihiloest
Remember that the communists also wanted a paradise on
earth and claimed to build it, and we saw their catastrophic
result. Political or religious ideologies have never solved the
problems of the past so there is no reason that they could
solve the present nor the future problems like that of energy,
even if the ideology is now named ecologism, freenergylogy or
pseudosciencebetterthanacademicscience.
Both Soviet Communism and National Socialism were stepping
stones necessary for the evolution of that which is presently
rattling its sabers and smashing with its iron fist. Governments
and Ideologies which have arisen since the 18th Century have
been brought into being by the Money Changers headquartered
in the City of London and their satellite Wall Street. It was never
their intention to actually create a "paradise on earth."
Quote from: exnihiloest
We have a technical problem with energy, relative to the cost
and the pollution. It's only a question of pragmatic science for
a material progress, not a question of ideology. To be constructive
here, everyone should choose: ideology or science, i.e. illusions
and conspiracies or knowledge and reality. To help in choosing
your camp or in understanding an already made choice, here
is a tool
(you may replace "religion" by "politics", it works as well) ;D.
It is unfortunate that the choices which you've suggested are
not easily accomplished. Science today has been made to be
an Ideology; what seems to be Reality is in truth but an Illusion.
This will all become painfully visible in the not distant future.
The People of Planet Earth are daily being hoodwinked, deceived,
suppressed and controlled. It is soon going to become far worse
than it is at this moment in time.
Quote from: AllCanadian
I mean no offense but most days I am pretty sure I am stuck in a
world full of very large children because they act immature and
despite what they may claim their actions generally prove otherwise.
Aye, it is a common feeling but I wonder if we're not doing a disservice
to the Children with this comparison. My experience has been that
most children by far are much better behaved than the so-called
Adults who act out their anger, fears, resentments and aggression
with ballistic impact.
Quote from: allcanadian on 2013.02.07, 17:02:39
@Exn
I would think it is just the opposite...
I would have guessed it! ;D
Quote from: Dumped on 2013.02.07, 22:49:19
...Governments and Ideologies which have arisen since the 18th Century have been brought into being by the Money Changers headquartered in the City of London and their satellite Wall Street. It was never their intention to actually create a "paradise on earth."
Don't mix anything with anything nor revise History. It was question of communism which arised from the belief in a better world outside the tsarism. Remember who were the Bolsheviks. It's exactly for escaping the situation that you mentionned about "the Money Changers" that a worst situation has been created. And now with extremist ecologism we are not far from taking the same risk!
Quote
...
The People of Planet Earth are daily being hoodwinked, deceived, suppressed and controlled. It is soon going to become far worse than it is at this moment in time.
...
The People of Planet Earth are also those who hoodwink, deceive, suppress and control. The world is not Manichean, every body plays the game, the powerful and wealthy are supported by most of the others, by laxism, complacency or interest: the employees finally make the money-changers. The responsability is shared.
In any case it's not the reason why you are unable to produce a useful free energy device. You are unable to do it either because you are not smart enough to find the trick, or because Nature's laws are incompatible with this phantasm.
It is intellectually dishonest to invoke other causes for his failures.
From Exn:
QuoteThe People of Planet Earth are also those who hoodwink, deceive, suppress and control. The world is not Manichean, every body plays the game, the powerful and wealthy are supported by most of the others, by laxism, complacency or interest: the employees finally make the money-changers. The responsability is shared.
As the cartoon character in POGO said: "We have met the enemy and he is us"
Quote from: exnihiloest
The responsability is shared.
Aye, and so it is. But not equally.
There are those who impose the burdens and
there are the burdened.
There are those who create the deceptions and
there are those who are deceived.
There are those who crave the power to enslave
and there are those who suffer enslavement.
There are those who delight in making war and
shedding blood and there are those whose blood
is shed.
There are those who have love and compassion
for all of mankind and there are those who only
have tolerance for their own "kind."
In the end all accounts will be settled equitably.
Those who have caused suffering will in turn
suffer a heavier responsibility. No one will be
made exempt.
Quote from: exnihiloest
In any case it's not the reason why you are unable to
produce a useful free energy device. You are unable
to do it either because you are not smart enough to
find the trick, or because Nature's laws are
incompatible with this phantasm.
Strangely, most of the "discoveries" have been made
by persons who have little education or understanding.
They seem to have found some "trick" indeed.
But the latter case is perhaps the better answer; The
Laws of the Universe will not allow what we hope to
make possible. We are being deceived.
From the other thread:
Quote(5) The trick to producing OU devices is to remain at such COP > 1 conditions. The simplest is to use Battery A to light LEDs and to recharge Battery B at the same time. Do this in the COP > 1 condition. Then swap Batteries from time to time.
If the batteries last 5 hours this is still incorrect. Looped means indefinate. Even the TPU made not this claim.
Quote from: Dumped on 2013.02.08, 17:38:46
...
Strangely, most of the "discoveries" have been made by persons who have little education or understanding.
...
False assertion.
Give examples.
To each given example, I will be able to oppose ten times "discoveries" from high educated people (with Tesla only, I have already a pretty stock of discoveries :) ).
The real statement is: 'Our reality has been changed by the tireless and relentless efforts of those who buck or are outside the system'. Doesn't matter about the education. It is dreams that make reality a belief target. Without imagination we are still in caves.
The more education one has the more one is channeled into a corporate structure. Once there the larger view of the horizon of freedom is lost. Higher pay means larger consumption and involvement into the hallways of networking and social endeavors. Reality comes from the free thinking that appears on the bench and then just happens to fall on the floor to become something that gains a life of its own by group acceptance. It is a view, then belief, then action.
As far as another gift:
Just think of the maniacal control of a robot with unlimited power. Stupid people... Oops I think there is already one in office...
http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/12/3154543/lockheed-martin-stalker-drone-48-hour-laser-power (http://www.theverge.com/2012/7/12/3154543/lockheed-martin-stalker-drone-48-hour-laser-power)
And watch the follow on vids in the youtube windows.
@GK
QuoteThe more education one has the more one is channeled into a corporate structure. Once there the larger view of the horizon of freedom is lost.
That is an interesting thought, how can one have more freedom or creativity when they are bound to the beliefs of the crowd?. Does a sheep have more freedom when it is forced to mindlessly follow the flock or when it decides to find it's own way in the world?.
It should come as no surprise that maturity is defined as being able to act and think independently of others and yet many who claim to be mature believe we should simply act and think just like them or everyone else. It would seem to be a conrtadiction in terms in my opinion, how can one claim to be mature and open minded when their system of beliefs is adolescent?, very strange.
AC
Quote from: Exnihiloest
Quote from: Dumped
Strangely, most of the "discoveries" have been made
by persons who have little education or understanding.
False assertion.
Give examples.
To each given example, I will be able to oppose ten times
"discoveries" from high educated people (with Tesla only,
I have already a pretty stock of discoveries :) ).
The "discoveries" I was referring to are those "Overunity"
or "Free Energy" purported discoveries which are the topics
of much discussion in the various forums. Not to mention
the sales of books, plans and seminars.
Of course, in contrast, there are bona fide discoveries made
by reputable and capable experimenters/researchers.
Quote from: GiantKiller
The more education one has the more one is
channeled into a corporate structure.
Sadly, that does seem to be the case in our
present system of education; or would it be
better to say "system of indoctrination."
Anything that is government funded and
controlled is bound to be shaped to support
the Agenda of those in power in order to
perpetuate their ability to control. To those
who know the processes the human mind is
very easy to manipulate. Mind Control is a
well established Art in today's World.
AllCanadian makes some good points too.
People with money, hire people with brains, simple as that.
So when I get lots of money I'll just hire myself! LOL :D
assuming I still have any brains left! ;D
Quote from: Dumped on 2013.02.09, 20:44:58
...
The "discoveries" I was referring to are those "Overunity" or "Free Energy" purported discoveries which are the topics of much discussion in the various forums.
...
Today there is not one discovery in this field.
Or prove it and give us the detailed experimental method to get overunity and free energy.
Quote from: Dumped on 2013.02.09, 20:55:52
...
Anything that is government funded and controlled is bound to be shaped to support the Agenda of those in power in order to perpetuate their ability to control.
...
Which government are you talking about?
When undergraduate students are teached philosophy in my country, according to national programs even in science sections, I wonder where would be the "system of indoctrination" and the manipulation in reading and explaining Descartes or Pascal. At the contrary, it's a method to open the minds, at the "risk" to form responsible and independent citizens for later critisizing the system (a common hobby in the country of strikes and lockouts ^-^).
I see much more indoctrination in the private sector where money is the only credo.
@Exn
QuoteToday there is not one discovery in this field.
I believe you meant to say You know of no new discoveries however I could probably write a book on this subject.
One new discovery relates to Tesla and Maxwell's work which is effectively Maxwell's Demon. However both Carnot and Maxwell were mistaken in there thoughts that heat was a substance which flows. Heat is a form of oscillation in matter because it absorbs and radiates energy in discrete packets due to EM waves in a narrow spectrum. Today we have proven technology which transforms this EM energy we call heat directly to electrical energy at the atomic level and it is called nanotechnology. It should be obvious that Carnot was incorrect in this case, there is no "difference" in heat as no differential is required and the material absorbs whatever ambient heat is available at any singular point.
Another discovery relates to Engineered materials whereby the magnetic properties of a material can be varied instantly. That is in one moment the material reacts strongly to magnetic fields and in another instance has no magnetic properties. The technology utilizes single atoms in a loop with a single atom gap in the loop. There are billions of them in the bulk material and when the gap closes the loops conduct and field interactions occur at the atomic level. You see we are no longer bound to material constraints because we are now engineering the properties of materials at the atomic level.
We are also bending light and other EM wavelengths around objects and it should not take a rocket scientist to figure out that if EM energy can be shuttled around an object in one instance and absorbed in the next and the energy extracted is the cause of the shuttling action then the bulk object itself is in oscillation. We would then harness this oscillation through external devices not interacting directly with the oscillation process and have a device to extract ambient energy anywhere at anytime.
The fact of the matter is that your not knowing or understanding new technology really has no bearing on it's existence and in the next 20 years I believe we will see a change in technology the likes of which very few can imagine, the future of free energy is bright.
AC