Hi Guy's :)
Here is the PAGD chart.
I am looking into this thing but the evacuated tube is a problem when you do not have the right equipment to make them.
That is why i am trying to generate the effect in open air...
Marco.
Good videos about the subject.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mT-94c1Q6Ms&feature=related
Verry good video Paul. :)
Chernetski called it "self generating discharge (SGD)"
Where The Correa's called it "Autoelectronic emission"
Marco.
http://www.aetherenergy.com/Technologies/aether_technologies.php (http://www.aetherenergy.com/Technologies/aether_technologies.php)
Have you tried OAUGDP? Not sure if it is related but it works.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/s_gdp1.htm
On the note obout vessel evacuation: Have you tried purging normal atmosphere and replacing with an inert gas?
Hi Bep :)
Well that is just some corona/ozone generation methode,it has nothing to do with what we are trying here.
I have played with that years ago, and that GDP Panel isn't going to last long because the insulation of the wire degrades until a flash through occurs and then it will be sparking on one point only....
I haven't done any tube development so far and i am wondering about the pressure too.
I do have a pump that can evacuate the tubes but i still need some gases and a burner.
Marco.
:)
Here is a graph on the glow discharge and arc discharge, and about the stable and instable tube pressure regimes.
Marco.
Hi Turbo,
Do you think the humble neon indicator bulb could be useful here:
I have noticed that when excited by a fairly high impedance source of high peak voltage, (I´ve not measured the peak but I presume by air breakdown that it is around 1...2kV).
My exciter is a LOPTX running as a blocking oscillator, I simply vary DC input voltage to vary my HV output (I can cover approx 500V to 50kV). Without a cap on the output the supply gives a spiky pulse output at about 5kHz...10kHz depending on voltage.
At a certain Vout tuning point the neon appears fairly bright orange and dancing over the surface I get super bright purple pinpricks of light. I´m guessing these tiny purple flashes are a fairly energetic process because when I look at the lamps electrodes under 100x magnification I see tiny pits and craters as if it has been sprayed with a high power machine gun, incredible because I´m only putting low milliwats in.
Do you think I might be tiptoeing around the abnormal glow discharge region?
P.S.I really like the graphic you put on all your pics!
edit: I´ll get a pic of a neon doing this soon...
I forgot to mention in my last post, after reviewing my log book, I was breaking the HV down over a cap and small gap, perhaps 0.5mm. The fire rate was about 200Hz, so this gave the discharges more punch and higher peak currents.
I first thought the blue pinpricks were arcover happening and being visible on the electrode only because of higher energy density close to the surface and then away from the surface density is lower as the plasma path spreads out. But one thing made me wonder about this is the fact that the purple pinpricks happen on the outer surfaces of the electrodes too, one would think if arcover was the mechanism then it would mainly appear on the inner electrode faces, the faces that were closest. Unless the outer plasma region is more conductive somehow and the energy routes a long path around the edge of the glass envelope?
I will be buying a new video cam soon with macro function, so I will be able to record some clear video footage of this hopefully and embed it into the thread.
Wow that gravity induced spectral spread is WIDE :o. I suppose the same spread would happen in centrifuge (i.e. is it definitely a force effect and not effect of atmospheric charge or field gradients).
It's a fascinating subject all round, a way to explore very high energy stuff on the bench.
Do you think calorimetry in some oil (with dye to absorb as many emmisions as possible) would be useful in gaining power metrics?
edit: Forgot to say; thanks for the nice explanation :), and yes I have noticed my eye sees a neon brighter when I intoduce a gap in series, the cpacitance of the system builds up charge and then it cascades through the gap, I'm guessing this gives higher peak current and pushes the behaviour into a more efficient mode.
Hi Fraser :)
I don't know about oil measurements...
I think it's not needed if you build the tubes to the specs simply because the power gain is undeniable...
There are documents that state output power of 900 Watts on the secondary side while feeding 145 Watt into the primary system.
This is something that cannot be missed and it does not take sensetive equipment to see if there is exess energy. :)
Offcource we are not as skilled as the Correa's and so i think we won't be able to get such values at the first attempts.
I am quite sure we will know it when we see it and from there on improve our ways. :)
Now i was never really affraid of high voltage but with these sodium vapour/xenon tubes i am a bit worried since i saw some reports on exploding tubes and the contents are violently reactive when it escapes...it ignites and explodes by itself..
Also i have never used these big 32 Uf 5500 Volt caps close to their working voltage and so i need to be carefull :)
Marco.
Ciao
In the old valve and loved the secret to capturing the radiant energy?
Seems so ... the potential barrier allows the drive unidirectional
absolute privilege for creating the event radiant.
Some characteristics of vacuum tubes and the plasma is created between the electrodes,
the path outlined by Tesla Moray Gray and access to the sea of energy.
http://www.nuenergy.org/alt/valve.htm
more ...
Tesla still confirmations ...
Paulo Correa & Alexandra: PAGD (Pulsed Abnormal Glow Discharges)
EMISSIONS FROM POWER AUTOELECTRONIC
Pulsatory Spontaneous activity of the space medium in cold cathode diodes.
Moray and Reich discovered spontaneous pulse activity in
valves catoto cold.
Sustainable producing pulses in a vacuum tube to catoto cold, the conversion system supports alone, the electricity produced is far beyond the input supply. Reported overall performance efficiency of 483%. The pulses occur at a frequency controlled without the need for an external pulse.
Labofex Press Release: "Canadian Breakthrough in Power Generation..."
Arthur Axelrad: "PAGD, Aether Motors, and Free Energy"
Paulo & Alexandra Correa: "Power from Autoelectronic Emissions"
P. & A. Correa:US Patent # 5,416,391 ~ "Electromechanical Transduction of Plasma Pulses"
P. & A. Correa:US Patent # 5,449,989 ~ "Energy Conversion System"
P. & A. Correa:US Patent # 5,502,354 ~ "Direct Current Energized Pulse Generator Utilizing Autogenous Cyclical Pulsed Abnormal Glow Discharges"
http://www.rexresearch.com/correa/correa.htm#5449989
bstract of US5502354
A cold cathode vacuum discharge tube is used in a circuit for generating pulsed autoelectronic emissions which are particularly intense and frequent in the abnormal glow discharge region, and involve much lower current densities than predicted by the Fowler-Nordheim vacuum arc discharge region law. The discharge tube is characterized by a large electrode area at least of the cathode, and a large interelectrode gap. The electrodes are preferably spaced at least 2 cm apart in a parallel relationship. A probe may be introduced between the electrodes to reduce still further the field required to generate the emissions. In another configuration the probe forms the anode and two plates form cathodes. The circuit is driven from a direct current source of having an impedance sufficient to prevent establishment of a vacuum arc discharge.
These pulse generators have diverse industrial applications; directly, they may be used as stroboscopic light sources, for vacuum deposition of cathode materials or cathode coatings (eg. polymer deposition or aluminum mirroring of target surfaces), detection of ionizing radiation fields, or electrostatic and electromagnetic proximity fields, high power noise-signal generation, destructive component testing (transient response) or destructive testing of materials in vacua (eg. insulations), high frequency medium voltage power supply applications (switching supplies and inverters), as an oscillator or as part of a pulse forming network. Indirectly, they may be used for laser pulsing, flash tube pulsing or for research (eg. chemical reaction triggering) and industrial switching applications.
Two conclusions, independently from all other varying conditions, may be taken from the data of Table 14: the pulse energy released within the reactor varies from <3 to >50.times. the input energy per pulse (column A vs columns B and C); and, in general, the reactor energy varies inversely to the pulse frequency (columns B and C, vs column D). In other experiments, reactor energies per pulse have been observed to reach >500 J. Given that the reactor pulse voltage (Vp) is determined by the extinction voltage Vx (Vp=Vb-Vx) and thus cannot reach the amplitude of the breakdown voltage Vb, this involution of energy observed per pulse in the reactor and at its output indicates that it is a current amplification phenomenon. Indeed, with input currents of 1.2 to 1.7 A and input pulse energies of 1 to 30 J, peak pulse reactor currents have been observed to reach >150 A.
Typically, a H34 device can produce about 0.25 kWh per 10,000 pulses. The corresponding value for a PLT is thus a minimum of 1.0 MWh/Alzak cathode and of 20 MWh/H34 cathode. As the cathode for each combination is only 66.7% consumed, the vacuum pulse generator may continue to be used in a reverse configuration, by utilizing the other plate in turn as the cathode; thus, the minimal values become, respectively, 2.0 MWh/Alzak pulse generator and 40 MWh/H34 pulse generator. The same rationale applies if the configuration utilized was that of the double diode.
http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-1029951076049946458&hl=fr
http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=6655711239948014370&hl=fr
http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-463838414256166757&hl=f
http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=3694171342676015282&hl=fr
http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=2370453135611399162&hl=fr
http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-4382739835023172080&hl=fr
http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-1480834570985055662&hl=fr
Hypercom
www.aspden.org/reports/Es8/Rep8.htm (http://www.aspden.org/reports/Es8/Rep8.htm)
:)
Here is a pic of my first tests.
Marco
I can see why you are excited about this!
Can you list what you feel would be necessary to experiment.
Besides big Balls ;D
Chet
PS This part would be interesting [seriously]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glass#Glass_production
Quote from: ramset on 2010.01.17, 14:51:26
Can you list what you feel would be necessary to experiment.
You can do that too.
In fact anybody can if they take some time to go through the info :)
It isn't hard to find out where to look :)
Marco.
Marco
Yes I suppose I can make a list.
The reason I ask is the list seems to small.
Well the reference material will take a long time to study[for more clues to necessary equipment]
and to be quite honest if it seems as simple as it appears ?
1} I must be missing something
2} it is beyond the ability of an amateur [exotic metals /processes/ fabrication issues?
3} If its the greatest thing since canned beer, how come nobody else is attempting a replication?
4}Do I have to sleep on a freakin bed of nails to get a list.
5] I'm gonna go wrap some coils with the rest of the idiots.
8}and make a list[with all the reading[reference books] it looks like my next post will be some time
coming
Chet
Quote from: ramset on 2010.01.17, 22:26:40
Marco
and to be quite honest if it seems as simple as it appears ?
That's exactly what i was thinking...
Quote from: ramset on 2010.01.17, 22:26:40
1} I must be missing something
Nope.
Quote from: ramset on 2010.01.17, 22:26:40
2} it is beyond the ability of an amateur [exotic metals /processes/ fabrication issues?
I am using cut to pieces regular fluorecent tubes, propane to melt and blow them and argon and aluminium are everywhere.
Quote from: ramset on 2010.01.17, 22:26:40
3} If its the greatest thing since canned beer, how come nobody else is attempting a replication?
I have been verry dissapointed too.
It seems people would rather spend their lives wrapping non working coils then try to build something really worth a try...
I don't care anymore i just want one running on my bench thats all..
Quote from: ramset on 2010.01.17, 22:26:40
4}Do I have to sleep on a freakin bed of nails to get a list.
Open up a notepad start reading and take notes of anything you do not have in your possesion...the result is your list and it will not be large.
Quote from: ramset on 2010.01.17, 22:26:40
5] I'm gonna go wrap some coils with the rest of the idiots.
If you can't beat them....
Quote from: ramset on 2010.01.17, 22:26:40
8}and make a list[with all the reading[reference books] it looks like my next post will be some time
coming
Chet
That list making won't take long.
two battery's
4 caps
6 diodes
and a tube
Pharhaps a burner, vacuum pump and some gas..
Marco.
See.....
Thats why "I" didn't make a list.
It looks STUPID!!
To simple!!
Some how I know its not [to simple]
Argon is good?[ I will read some more]
Chet
Quote from: Turbo on 2010.01.17, 23:08:47
two battery's
4 caps
6 diodes
and a tube
Pharhaps a burner, vacuum pump and some gas..
Marco.
Well, I have plenty of the latter!
I went through the doc you posted in chat. Very intriguing. It does fit nicely with some of my past nightmares with the near-nro area of neon lamps, betatron experiments and work by Ken Shoulders (his EVOs).
I'm not going to break away from what I'm doing right now but this is certainly worth a serious try! Thanks.
Doing research
Chet
I WANT ONE!!
A few capacitors and diodes ?
I'll need a hand truck for that capacitor
How big?? :o :o :o
It all depends on tube construction ,the area of the electrodes, spacing between the electrodes ,type of gas used, and gas pressure, and etc..
I do think closed loop portable units can be designed :)
SOOOOO.........
Looks like a fabrication problem with the TUBES?
NOT!!!
Glass 10=15000 PSI
ITW ceramic 6 epoxy 13-14000 psi Zero shrinkage [two big words here ]
CERAMIC and ZERO[2nd one means it will hold a seal]
YES it will !![ work ]
And if not Chet knows the inventor
Still studying
Chet
Yes the tube is what holds back most people.
It's quite hard to get the glass liquid and in the form you want it.
If it heats up too fast it breaks and if it cooles to fast it brakes so it isn't exactly easy.
But i dont mind :)
Maybe we can also blow someglass art in the end ;D
marco.
No problem working with glass
Use open end Lab test tubes
And seal them shut with 13000 psi 20 minute cure ceramic epoxy
Make um the old way with the new technology
No more excuses not to play ;D
Think I'll start Tiny [as small as possible]
Chet
PS
As far as Blowin glass,[ouch] why bother ??
Would be nice to learn [I got the furnace]
OK
The more I look, the more I like this.
Seems like all that is needed to start is the Tube[properly assembled with the right ingredients]
One question What M bar / Thorr is going to give the best chance for a successful
Proof of concept
Chet
In his book, Instruments of Amplification, H.P. Fierdrichs details his construction and successful experimenting with his homemade vacuum tube thermionic diodes and triodes. For the glass he used off the shelf things like a canning jar and a bell jar and a glass glode both from craft stores. The key was that he was using a dynamic vacuum i.e. he left the vacuum pumps on during the tests. Naturally for a production unit that's not an option, but for testing purposes that's okay. He got as low as 20milliTorr in one case. And as I said, they were successful working thermionic diodes and triodes. In some experiments it took a little while for the vacuum to get sufficiently low while offgassing of epoxy and other materials took place.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org
Yeah so i suppose you can blow some argon through the tube to make sure all oxygen is gone and then evacuate it as far as you can go with your tools :)
I have a pump but i do not know how low it can go yet...and i am actually also affraid it will evacuate it untill the glass collapses.
Marco.
HMMMMM
Seems like doing this with some decent glass from the start would be a good idea!!
Old Beer bottles and mayonnaise /peanut butter jars N G IMHO
[ yes cutting old flou tubes is fun ,but raises structural questions]
Seems like getting a good vacuum from the start ,also a good idea
Running the vacuum nonstop hoping we get enough M bar/ Thorr during testing NG
also not fair IMHO
Since there is no doubt this works why @#$% around [mess].
Think I'll fire up the furnaces tomorrow and see where the glass starts to yield
Have a very good contact for working glass [Engineer not artist] I can ask for help on making tubes
Don't know if they know how to make tubes
but they will hook us up [see how I said "US" ]
Of course I will share all I learn
Chet
PS
@ Marco thank you for beating the drum so loud
Hows that ""Coil aholics anonymous" recovery thing working out?
I thought I saw you hanging around the" Gates" thread with a toilet paper tube and some baling wire [may be it was some one else [it was dark]]
@Stevend Thanks!! more to study :In his book, Instruments of Amplification, H.P. Fierdrichs
Quote from: ramset on 2010.01.21, 02:57:33
PS
@ Marco thank you for beating the drum so loud
:) no problem i am glad you heard it!
Here is the "XS-NRG" paper and "A note on the Law of Electrodynamics" :)
Marco.
:)
About the gas
Well
I'm limited to 3000 F [in a controlled furnace]
I believe melting silica will just require a good thermometer[for duplication of results] some good fire [ceramic] bricks
and a torch [Cave man stuff]
Since we Know this works.
We should also look at the glass and the properties required for long term dependability in Tubes of this sort
Will be calling my glass expert tonight
Chet
Hi :)
Ive also started out with simple things :)
But to work best with the glass some oxygen can be handy to get the temperature up.
Here are some things i started out with: :)
How do I post pics ??
Or links to Pics?
And Movies?
Chet
Nice
http://paillard.claude.free.fr/
OK
Marco!!
You beat this drum!!
This!!
http://paillard.claude.free.fr/
This ain't the reason peeps don't do Tubes
To freakin easy .
O K it might take a day to learn [not a museum piece ,but functional]
Whats the Real reason??
I here big words [inside the Tubes]
Chet
UUMMMM...
BTW
where/how is he evacuating the tubes??[might not be so easy]
I know he's doing it in the Vid [which process/step?]
QuoteThere are a few devices that are detailed enough to build and have a high probability of success:
1. Correa PAGD: proven and detailed
2. Aspden's concentric capacitor generator: detailed, unproven
3. Both Spheric's devices: detailed, unproven
4. Ed Gray's tube/motor: details may be deliberately erroneous, but proven
The following are sketchy on details:
4. TPU
5. Hendershot
6. Moray
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=827.msg15551#msg15551 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=827.msg15551#msg15551)
Grumpy, detailed here?
EDIT: found this too: http://www.rexresearch.com/correa/correa.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/correa/correa.htm) (Maybe already posted, time enough only for a 'drive-by' post today.)
PAGD is discussed all over the place and the inventors are still alive and well.
As I recall the output is pulsed and of high energy, and something about the electrodes wearing out quickly.
In my personal opinion, which is biased, the PAGD is not practical. However, gain is gain and some is better than none. Discharge tube devices that exhibit excess energy use the divergent current method same as Aspden's concentric capacitor device, but one uses a displacement current and the other conduction current. Either will spin the stuff, but which is easier to switch? Comes down to personal preference.
The other method is to use hv pulses to produce the density change.
Some may notice that pulsed output and AC output devices do not have a static mag field. DC output devices do have a static mag field. This is indicative that the aether motion, scalar wave, etc. interacts with a magnetic field in a constructive way. My guess is that virtual charges separate just like real ones do, and separated virtual charges become real charges.
The Aspden's concentric capacitor device has never been duplicated with success. It is very likely that Aspden himself never built it.
I'm always astonished that an unfounded assertion or patent is accepted as a fact while it is obviously not, and that one tries to use this poppycock to irrationally justify other devices, spreading so a false rumor.
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2011.07.16, 12:36:48
The Aspden's concentric capacitor device has never been duplicated with success. It is very likely that Aspden himself never built it.
I'm always astonished that an unfounded assertion or patent is accepted as a fact while it is obviously not, and that one tries to use this poppycock to irrationally justify other devices, spreading so a false rumor.
I an attempt to remain objective and open-minded, we don't really know if Aspden or anyone else ever tried to build this device. I believe that if Aspden discovered that it would not work, he would have written an article to discuss this and adjusted his theories.
You can not say truthfully that it will not work or that unproven statements are not true, until the ideas are tested.
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2011.07.16, 12:36:48
The Aspden's concentric capacitor device has never been duplicated with success. It is very likely that Aspden himself never built it.
I'm always astonished that an unfounded assertion or patent is accepted as a fact while it is obviously not, and that one tries to use this poppycock to irrationally justify other devices, spreading so a false rumor.
Are you saying you have tried to build this device without success.