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General - Free Energy Related => Miscellaneous Discussions => Topic started by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.07, 01:21:30

Title: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.07, 01:21:30


Gabriel shipped his device in a wooden box that he custom-made for it. It cost about $130 to ship via Fedex. It was fully assembled (in a straight line, one piece). Working and ready to go.  Left Friday 1 March, 4-days for delivery they said.  Arrived today 6 March.

But it came to me in a black-plastic container, with popcorn and shredded-cardboard packing (which he did not use), DISASSEMBLED, in two pieces (motor and unit). Further, the bolts holding the heat-unit together were all loose or gone -- 3 nuts loose, 4 nuts GONE. I later found the four nuts on the bottom of the crate.  

I prepared a vid upon arrival, keep it private!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d45X597J850&feature=youtu.be

Sent the link to Gabriel via email, he emailed back:

   quote:
   First thing the [cell] number you gave me is not working, 2nd thing I DID not ship that in that box and it was fully assembled when I shipped it!
   What is going on here?


He noted that he kept getting a message that my cell phone was "disconnected", but it was not -- about 5 tries.  Then he tried once more and my phone rang and worked of course fin.

Gabriel is concerned at the treatment shown in the vid, observed in the package upon arrival --Motor is coated in oil, even inside looking at a white plastic inside. Oil everywhere inside the crate. He said unit was SEALED, so they broke the seal.  As noted, all SEVEN nuts/bolts holding the device together and connected to the motor were loose, so that the cover on the cylinder of the unit would move easily.


He asked me to spin the shaft on unit, I did so. It makes a grinding sound. Not good. plates are rubbing. Ruined as far as my testing it is concerned -- it may have to go back to him for proper re-assembly and re-alignment at least, unless I can figure out with his help how to align the inner disks.

Accident (it is heavy, about 110 lbs) or intentionally seeking info, or to harass? 
Do we now have first-hand experience of harassment of FE researchers?  We must gather more evidence.
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via FedexWe now have in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.07, 01:24:56
Note that the black plastic crate arrived this morning around 10:30 am.  I was not asked for a signature, driver just left it at the door.

Since I had my video camera handy, I took short vids of the unopened crate and as I opened it.  I try to remember to take vids of important things, and I did so this morning.  Wasn't planning to upload these however!

Unopened crate: http://youtu.be/V9TMeJDu5Hg   Notice the intact cable-ties.

First look inside: http://youtu.be/gvTVOAP72xE    You can see the packaging material "they" used -- not used by Gabriel! also, that it is in two separate pieces now.

Gabriel has filed a complaint with Fedex.  He noted that they responded that they will send investigators here (to my home/lab) in a few days.
I will not be looking INSIDE the heater before that.

I did not notice and "dings" on the motor or the heater unit, nor on the threads of the seven large bolts which are to hold the unit together.


Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via FedexWe now have in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.07, 01:39:46
It is important to remember that the device left as ONE assembly, firmly bolted together and the oil sealed inside --
but it arrived in TWO detached pieces, and the bolts on the heater device were all lose.  Gabriel looked at my vid of the heater and noted that the connector had been moved on the central shaft, downward.  This requires a special tool and a deliberate act.

I don't think the opening of the device was an accident.  And who ever threw things back together did not even bother to put 4 of the nuts back on their respective bolts.   I'm certain it was NOT shipped that way!!

I finally found the tracking record for this shipment, Fedex info:  see attached.  Note the activity (strange) in Sacramento CA --

1-  Mar 2, 2013 1:11 AM
Arrived at FedEx location
SACRAMENTO, CA
2-  Mar 2, 2013 8:16 AM
  Departed FedEx location
SACRAMENTO, CA

--->>  where is the package during this time from 8:16am Saturday, leaving Sacramento Fedex, until 4:50pm on Monday, back to Sacramento Fedex?
 
3- Mar 4, 2013 4:50 PM
Arrived at FedEx location
SACRAMENTO, CA

4--  Mar 5, 2013 2:35 AM
Departed FedEx location
SACRAMENTO, CA

        So it departs the FedEx location in Sacramento at 8:16 am on Saturday, and arrives at Sacramento FedEx at 4:50 pm on Monday!  Where is the package during this long time???  I'd like to know!
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Chet K on 2013.03.07, 01:50:55
Well
That part adds a big twist,we're not talking about a fly by night shipper Fed ex keeps it moving towards the destination not ring around the rosey?

I have gotten "repaks" from a shipper but not like that??

,the only thing I could imagine was a drop and Break scenario that leaked oil and got stopped for some "protocol"
reason[should be well documented if that were the case!]

Does seem extra weird tho??

So the way it stands now you are not going to do any investigation until Fedex rep gets there?
no looking for drop damage?



Thx
Chet
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.07, 02:33:26
Quote"
So the way it stands now you are not going to do any investigation until Fedex rep gets there?
no looking for drop damage?"

What, Chet?   I said that I did look for damage/dings and saw none.  Nothing on the motor, and no dings on the unit itself that I could see.

  However, as I noted, all SEVEN nut/bolt assemblies were loose.  This would not likely be caused by dropping -- all seven big bolts/nuts loose by dropping?  tell me how.
The top of the cylinder was free to be lifted = no seal.  And when I did spin the rotor, it made a scraping noise, suggesting a shift inside so the discs rub.  Looks like someone took it apart and inspected inside. 

On the INSIDE, Gabriel asked that I not take it apart and look until AFTER the investigators come.
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Gabriel on 2013.03.07, 02:52:05
Hello guys,

...... I just don't know what to say.....  I was asked by FedEx to tell Steve not to touch the Box any more until they get there. Now with that being said, I would like for you Steve
to record them while they have there look at the box and it's content. Please do not let them take the heater from your house. After they are done with their findings of who dropped the ball lets try to get back on track with the testing.
I will assist you Steve over the phone or Skype to put this back together and ready for testing. I do have some extra parts I have found in my shop if need be to repair the heater.
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Slider2732 on 2013.03.07, 03:01:01
Such a sad situation, whichever way it goes.
Surely a short printout report would be with such a package to denote a repacking...not nothing said at all.
What would they expect, people to just say 'ho hum' and accept such practices ?

As noted by Gabriel, to move one part of it would take a specialised tool. The unit was sealed and that seal was not going to simply fail and oil come rushing out - otherwise i'm sure it wouldn't be shipped. Even if the seal had failed in transit, surely they would tip it upside down or whatever to let the remainder come out, make a note to be attached (with probable fine or something) and ship onward. Who would disassemble something without even an email or phone call to the shipper ?
It could have been anything in there, how would they know how to proceed ?

Well, too many questions.

Julie said "tell the guys to take pics/videos of anything before shipping and of the box it is being sent in".
Good advice for the future I think.

Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Magluvin on 2013.03.07, 03:22:38
Thats a bit wild.  :-\  # things that come to mind.

Was it detected by an xray device and found suspicious. Seems odd that there was not even a "Sorry about that but..."

Was detected by xray device and found suspicious enough to call in the boys. 8) And after getting oil all over their freshly polished shoes, they said, dump it all in a Hefty bag and resume shipping. Then send in the drones and take out both subjects. These shoes were my favorite.  ;D

Was known about prior to shipping and...  

But I lean on the first 2. If it were known about prior, then if they were following here, they would know that there is nothing really special, nor to be concerned about safety wise, or you wouldnt have received anything.  ;)   Unless 'they' just wanted to examine it to see if OU, and if it was, lol, they modified things so OU couldnt happen unless you rebuild. Not very professional, shipping it in that condition. It could make us suspicious. lol


Dont take what I said as non caring. These are my thoughts I have. I just tried to make lite of possible truths.  ;)

I personally, It would be on Youtube already. ;) :D

Mags
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.07, 05:29:49
  Yes, VERY surprising/concerning that they would not send a note to explain the taking apart of the device.  Maybe they worried it was a bomb lol, shipped by/to terrorists   :D   Actually, that scenario (though farfetched and UNTRUE!) does worry me because they can "accuse" of whatever they want these days in the "war on terror", so it seems. 

Oh, dear.

Gabriel -- I request whatever photos you have of the device before shipping, outside and inside -- so they can compare with what they find inside.

Actually, will this work having me try to explain to them what SHOULD be inside, and if anything was damaged?  How would I know?

perplexed in Utah,
Steve

PS -- they need to let me know in advance when they're coming.  I'll be out of town tomorrow afternoon for instance, with my wife.

PPS -- Wife wants to know if I can meet these investigators somewhere besides our own humble hacienda?
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.07, 05:33:37
  Maybe Mags has a good idea -- should one put this out on youtube?  public things are visible and may be safer to some extent...?  talking directly to the people and all.
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.07, 05:45:53
Here's that travel record per Fedex.

Note the activity (strange) in Sacramento CA --

1-  Mar 2, 2013 1:11 AM
Arrived at FedEx location
SACRAMENTO, CA
2-  Mar 2, 2013 8:16 AM
 Departed FedEx location
SACRAMENTO, CA

--->> where is the package during this time from 8:16am Saturday, leaving Sacramento Fedex, until 4:50pm on Monday, back to Sacramento Fedex?

3- Mar 4, 2013 4:50 PM
Arrived at FedEx location
SACRAMENTO, CA

4--  Mar 5, 2013 2:35 AM
Departed FedEx location
SACRAMENTO, CA

Gabriel -- I'd very much like to have a good explanation to this question BEFORE they bother to send investigators to my door:

where is the package during this time from 8:16am Saturday, leaving Sacramento Fedex, until 4:50pm on Monday, back to Sacramento Fedex?

Can you ask them, or should I?
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Magluvin on 2013.03.07, 06:14:15
It would be interesting to see how long the vid stays up on YT or if Fedx requests that it be taken down.
But, maybe since they are sending someone to investigate, Id wait to see what they have to say, like, dont put this on YT. lol   Then if you are unsatisfied with their investigation, then possibly a YT vid.  I dunno.  I wouldnt want trouble to come your way for any reason. And if they are sending someone, then I suspect they have 'no idea' what happened to the package. Thats when things might get interesting. :o

Maybe have a friend or 2 with you when the visit happens. Safer in numbers.  And dont show them the lab. You might be identified as a terrorist. Seriously. If they have questions as to what it is, you could say it an experimental dyno for small motors, which isnt far from the truth in reality, other than maybe more heat produced than input costs. But you dont have to say that part of it. ;)

Maybe even contact an atty near you and explain the situation that happened to the 'mini dyno' and if they would accompany you for the visit. Some kind of witness to what is said, and done. There is loss involved and 'clear' negligence as to what happened to the 'dyno'.

Its funny. Maybe they figured that if it was a device that is intended to be diabolical, that nobody is going to call and complain, and wait and see if they need to pay a visit anyways. But being that you contacted them, surely they feel to be in a sort of pickle and may offer a nice chunk of 'hush' money, as they are already in the ditch a bit over videos of careless deliveries.

I think the atty, especially one that knows local cops, would be a step in the right direction, for your own safety, just in case.  ;)

Good luck.

Mags
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Magluvin on 2013.03.07, 06:18:33
Was there any paperwork sent with the 'dyno' that would implicate that it was more than a dyno?

Mags
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.07, 06:33:31
This is a good question for Gabriel:

Quote from: Magluvin on 2013.03.07, 06:18:33
Was there any paperwork sent with the 'dyno' that would implicate that it was more than a dyno?

Mags

Thanks for your points, Mags.  Cheers everyone.
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Magluvin on 2013.03.07, 06:57:46
No problem. ;] Sounds a bit like science fiction and conspiracy stuff, but its not that far fetched. I suppose we are going to find out.

Mags
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Chet K on 2013.03.07, 09:06:30
Steve
I was not implying you are not doing anything ,I meant a more technical check for damage ,out of round etc etc.
As far as the heater ,I would just refer to it as a Friction  prototype similar to Franette/perkins ?

http://www.google.com/patents/US4143639

Our community comes under assault from many angles,you are a huge asset working on your own time and expense.
this is another good reason to start a more organised group with clear goals and purpose,one who's goal is altruism and charity
not wealth and fame.

If we build it [A Community ] they will come........

And BTW This is very good "press" for That cause.Trying to help the planet..........


Global warming    Carbon tax,   all serve this cause quite well


Thx
Chet
Just for clarity on that group [charity]
we have several very good [extra nasty] bits of news that highlight the need.
the kickstarter hurts charity angle and this energy research tampered with angle,if we were a charitable world wide group
thousands or tens of thousands strong .
this would be big news and have much clout in the world

I has a dream............

Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.07, 17:58:48
So this morning I called FedEx.

I asked about the missing time Sat am to 4:50pm Monday, she could find no further record of where the package was... She said it might just have been sitting on a truck.

Also, she found no record of re-labeling or re-packaging.

She offered to call Sacramento Fx and I waited while she did. She said there was no answer, and she could not give me the phone #. She tried another number, reached a person who immediately transferred her (she said) to another phone, again no answer. But she left my phone infor so perhaps this fellow in Sacr will call me?

She could give me no more info; finally she said (nicely) that she would transfer me to someone who handled unusual situations...

He could not provide additional info on the missing time either. I asked who would loosen/take out 7 bolts and take a shipment apart (as we found it on arrival) -- he said FedEx would NOT do this, period.

I asked who has authority then to do such, and he said he could not answer such questions...
But I or the shipper could file a claim.
I asked if I could find out WHO took it apart if I filed a claim.  He said probably not.  That told me something!

Both he and she said there was no indication that a claim had been filed, so I then called Gabriel.  I suggested that he call FedEx again and make sure the claim is filed (if I wishes to).

The fedex fellow also said that fedex would not send inspectors to my home to do the inspection for damage. period.
(I asked Gabriel to re-check on this, too.) They would only send a driver and it would be taken to one of their centers for inspection, then they could ship it back to the sender.

OK -- if Fedex did not loosen/remove the bolts and he cannot answer who did, and we "probably" cannot find that out even with a claim -- and we can get it working again anyway --
WHY BOTHER WITH A CLAIM TO FEDEX?  

I mean it -- I would rather not waste additional time in trying to get them to cough up... how much?  x?  Gabriel noted that he had not insured the package nor taken photos prior to shipment and he made jokes about the heavy thing being a bomb... ha ha... 

Its pretty clear to me that FedEx (and Google and Cellphone corps etc) will COVER for the gov't to do warrantless searches anytime they want to.
So we learn to live with that or work around that, like me driving out to see Gabriel etc. in future.

If we can get this to work, the approx 1 or 2K a guy (Gabriel) might get from FedEx -- is it worth the hastle and the time lost?  will they hem and delay and try to cover-up?  I think so -- that's what I've found so far!!

I suggest we get back to building and researching.  ASAP
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.07, 18:04:17
PS -- a quick search turned up a bunch of patents that may relate to the "friction heater"

US4273075   Sep 7, 1979   Jun 16, 1981      Heat generating device
US4277020   Apr 30, 1979   Jul 7, 1981   General Industries, Inc.   Fluid friction heater
US4312322   Apr 14, 1980   Jan 26, 1982      Disced friction heater
US4357931   Sep 11, 1980   Nov 9, 1982      Flameless heat source
US4365614   Mar 31, 1980   Dec 28, 1982      Friction space heater
US4424797   Oct 13, 1981   Jan 10, 1984      Heating device
US4454861   Mar 20, 1981   Jun 19, 1984   Raymond E. Shea   Fluid friction heater
US4462386   Jun 17, 1983   Jul 31, 1984      Hydraulic friction heater
US4481934   Feb 2, 1983   Nov 13, 1984      Friction furnace
US4494524   Jul 19, 1982   Jan 22, 1985      Centrifugal heating unit
US4499913   Mar 20, 1980   Feb 19, 1985   Albert Frenette   Method and apparatus for producing friction heat
US4501231   Jun 2, 1983   Feb 26, 1985      Heating system with liquid pre-heating
US4596077   Jun 20, 1983   Jun 24, 1986      Heating process and its apparatus in reducing air pressure within a balanced level
US4651681   May 20, 1983   Mar 24, 1987      Heating system using a liquid heater as the source of heat
US4781151   Nov 24, 1986   Nov 1, 1988      Flameless heat source
US5341768   Sep 21, 1993   Aug 30, 1994   Kinetic Systems, Inc.   Apparatus for frictionally heating liquid
US5704320   Oct 30, 1996   Jan 6, 1998   Kabushiki Kaisha Toyoda Jidoshokki Seisakusho   Viscous fluid type heat generator with an elongated rotor element
US5752474   Apr 23, 1997   May 19, 1998   Kabushiki Kaisha Toyoda Jidoshokki Seisakusho   Viscous heater
US5931153   Jul 9, 1998   Aug 3, 1999      Apparatus and method for generating heat
US5937797   Jul 11, 1997   Aug 17, 1999   Kabushiki Kaisha Toyoda Jidoshokki Seisakusho   Viscous fluid heater
US6164274   Apr 9, 1999   Dec 26, 2000      Apparatus and method for heating fluid
US6386751   Oct 24, 1997   May 14, 2002   Diffusion Dynamics, Inc.   Diffuser/emulsifier
US6595759   Jul 30, 2001   Jul 22, 2003      Centrifugal device for heating and pumping fluids
US7128278   Apr 25, 2003   Oct 31, 2006   Microdiffusion, Inc.   System and method for irritating with aerated water
US7393695   Jan 6, 2005   Jul 1, 2008   Transkinetics Corporation   Collider chamber apparatus and method of use of same
US7523873   Nov 4, 2004   Apr 28, 2009      Heating system
US7654728   Jun 25, 2004   Feb 2, 2010   Revalesio Corporation   System and method for therapeutic application of dissolved oxygen
US7744826   Jun 6, 2008   Jun 29, 2010   Transkinetic Energy Corporation   Collider chamber apparatus and method of use of same
US7770814   Oct 31, 2006   Aug 10, 2010   Revalesio Corporation   System and method for irrigating with aerated water
US7806584   Apr 15, 2002   Oct 5, 2010   Revalesio Corporation   Diffuser/emulsifier
US7832920   Oct 25, 2007   Nov 16, 2010   Revalesio Corporation   Mixing device for creating an output mixture by mixing a first material and a second material
US7887698   Jan 19, 2007   Feb 15, 2011   Revalesio Corporation   Diffuser/emulsifier for aquaculture applications
US7919534   Oct 25, 2007   Apr 5, 2011   Revalesio Corporation   Mixing device
US7942144   Mar 19, 2008   May 17, 2011      Heating system and apparatus
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.07, 18:51:23
Note this from a Fedex insider:

FedEx Claims: The Real Scam

   
QuoteThe lawsuit regarding "upweighting" brought our [FedEx] Claims Deaprtment to mind, specifically their unwillingness to ever pay for claims, even if they are completely legitimate. A few years ago I was approached by my manager and asked if I wanted to be the station "Claims Specialist". I didn't know what the job entailed, so I asked for an explanation. Here's what I got:

    1. The Claims Specialist's job is to deny any claim, regardless of whether the package meets or exceeds FedEx packaging standards.

    2. The packaging standards are kept intentionally vague so the customer is always at fault.
etc...



Read more: http://www.browncafe.com/forum/f50/fedex-claims-real-scam-347506/#ixzz2MshicOZd


Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Slider2732 on 2013.03.07, 18:54:22
Giving up is giving in.
Others are having similar happen to them and, if agencies other than FedEx are doing things with FedEx entrusted packages, it needs to be sorted out. If they're not there and it's just a badly run delivery system, then that would appease the conspiracy thoughts of many.

I would say see how things go and if all just seems to look more like a brush sweep, then YouTube the videos and situ.
Gabriels device has been seen publicly on YouTube and it was to go for scientific testing, an easy to understand situ for anyone watching. Claims of OU need not be mentioned, it could have been a motor, wind generator, lightbulb design.
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.07, 19:21:17
  I'm saying we need to do our research outside the system as much as possible, since the establishment may be hostile to new energy findings.

 Time is limited and the benefits of seeking to go through the Fedex claims system seems a waste to me...

Edit -- now the device is apart in my lab, with Gabriel watching via skype as I disassambled with care .  It is clear that "they"  had it apart and did not know how to put it together!


Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Chet K on 2013.03.07, 19:33:52
QuoteSteve
.....Have Gabriel guide you through Reassembly and see what you have?


Thx
Chet

I'm ready to do this whenever Gabriel is ready and willing to proceed. 
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Gabriel on 2013.03.07, 22:40:11
After talking to FedEX for the 2nd time today..... They can not find any record of us talking to them or of any claim filed..... nor can they even generate a claim number off of the tracking number on my end....... The lady I spoke to today was in Aww about this and said she was sorry, that this has never happened before to her.  :(

Steve can you give me the numbers on the plastic tote from the new shipping tag?

To be real frank about this .... I am ready to move on!

Look the main thing is that you have it and so be it.  First thing is testing the motor to see if it still working. next is bolting it back on the heat core.
This is really easy. I am not worried about any scraping at this point being that it is not together and is loose for parts to rub.

Yea mybad for not taking picture of the crate and heater inside of it. I guess I am new at this whole thing  ;)


I would love to find the FedEx diver that I helped load this crate into his truck and get him on video describing the crate.

So I say lets move on and get some testing done. I am ready on my end when you are ready on yours.

Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: TinMan on 2013.03.07, 23:26:10
Quote from: Oilpiggy on 2013.03.07, 22:40:11
After talking to FedEX for the 2nd time today..... They can not find any record of us talking to them or of any claim filed..... nor can they even generate a claim number off of the tracking number on my end....... The lady I spoke to today was in Aww about this and said she was sorry, that this has never happened before to her.  :(

Steve can you give me the numbers on the plastic tote from the new shipping tag?

To be real frank about this .... I am ready to move on!

Look the main thing is that you have it and so be it.  First thing is testing the motor to see if it still working. next is bolting it back on the heat core.
This is really easy. I am not worried about any scraping at this point being that it is not together and is loose for parts to rub.

Yea mybad for not taking picture of the crate and heater inside of it. I guess I am new at this whole thing  ;)


I would love to find the FedEx diver that I helped load this crate into his truck and get him on video describing the crate.

So I say lets move on and get some testing done. I am ready on my end when you are ready on yours.


Yes-lets get on with testing.
No point in crying over spilt milk as they say,as long as they dont shoot the cow.
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Chet K on 2013.03.07, 23:54:42
Steve
One thing would be interesting ,Does the plastic container it arrived in have any GSA #'s [cast into the plastic]
That would actually tell a lot  if it does?

Thx
Chet
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.08, 00:56:00
Quote from: Oilpiggy on 2013.03.07, 22:40:11
After talking to FedEX for the 2nd time today..... They can not find any record of us talking to them or of any claim filed..... nor can they even generate a claim number off of the tracking number on my end....... The lady I spoke to today was in Aww about this and said she was sorry, that this has never happened before to her.  :(

Steve can you give me the numbers on the plastic tote from the new shipping tag?

To be real frank about this .... I am ready to move on!

Look the main thing is that you have it and so be it.  First thing is testing the motor to see if it still working. next is bolting it back on the heat core.
This is really easy. I am not worried about any scraping at this point being that it is not together and is loose for parts to rub.

Yea mybad for not taking picture of the crate and heater inside of it. I guess I am new at this whole thing  ;)


I would love to find the FedEx diver that I helped load this crate into his truck and get him on video describing the crate.

So I say lets move on and get some testing done. I am ready on my end when you are ready on yours.



No problem, Gabriel -- lets remember to take lots of digital  photos or vids in the future.
I sent #'s to you via email.
Chet -- black box has no major identifier on it except:
"Orbis" - manufacturer
Old shipping label, about 70% torn off.
I also see there is a foot-long jagged crack on the bottom of this container.


Gabriel:
QuoteFirst thing is testing the motor to see if it still working. next is bolting it back on the heat core.
This is really easy. I am not worried about any scraping at this point being that it is not together and is loose for parts to rub.

OK, will test the motor right away.  But bolting it on and running before putting OIL in it?  and checking it inside?  can't recommend that...  I don't like the scraping noise or the difficulty in turning the shaft.
Do you want me to add oil and tighten the three nuts (in triangle) which hold the unit together first??

 Please clarify!
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.08, 01:10:59
The motor runs nicely.  My rpm meter says 3597 rpm -- I suppose its 1/3 that since there are three teeth.
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Magluvin on 2013.03.08, 03:01:52
Yes, I suppose it would be the 'safest' move to just let it go after a day of hammering from 2 countries in 1 day. ;)

But ya know what? It would be interesting to do a lil project on this stuff.

Go into a forum, show a device that seems to be clearly OU. Hang out for a while, giving reasonable explanation of relatively simple things like coils and magnets and circuitry. And sorta drag it out a bit stating the usual things we here in these situations, and one day pick someone from the thread to be the one that you want to send it to, to test it for themselves.  ;) Design the mock setup so it looks like something that might need 'the boys' to come out and examine it, or rip it to shreds. And if funny business happens between shipping, and we get this kind of 'no answers' situation, and we really dig in to find out what really happened. Oh, so the twilight zone really exists? It must have flown over the bermuda triange, and what is in the plastic container is the best they could do with it in the alternate universe.  ;)

I might think that if a package that was suspicious that maybe calling the sender, of which if the sender answers, it is a good sing to begin with, and ask some questions before calling in the Demolition Man, and have the eggs to throw it all in a container and resume the shipment, no form of COMMUNICATION AT ALL!!!!!.  A conspiracy theorists wet dream.

I bet if you get an ATTY to make several calls, some answers might come to light. In our 'field' having knowledge of what is really happening in these situations can be extremely valuable. If it turned out to really be just xray suspicious package and have the specialists check it out. I might think these Specialists are involved with this company full time.

Imagine what other things this happens to because 'they' are all just too paranoid is my only guess.

I would venture to say that this is not an isolated incident and the losses must be, well, lots. Somebody must have gotten an atty and at least got some answers before this. Heck, LET US KNOW WHAT WE DID SO WE DONT DO IT AGAIN!!  Because WE KNOW NOTHING!
And our stuff is all in pieces and it was "definitely' and 'inside' job.

But like you said, no insurance, no pics nor proof of anything really. Well, wait a min.  Not that we would want to be letting them view, but the 'threads' could be very good proof of the condition, words and pics, just as much as pictures taken.

Bah, this can drive one crazy. lol  Hev you checked the package for bugs?  :D Just kidding. maybe.  ;)

But it would be neat to test the boundaries a bit with harmless materials.

I wonder if shipping 'oil' like that is an issue? Packages might need special handling, like, you know, just any old plastic container and snap the flimsy lid on it. ;) ;D

Mags
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Gabriel on 2013.03.08, 03:02:28
Steve,

WONDERFUL about the motor :) :) :)

With Optimism

Remove the 3 all-thread bolts, then remove the lovejoy coupler.  After this remove the lid to the oil LV.

If the oil level is within 1.500" from the top we are fine. if it is lower add some oil, use only soy oil refined, cooking oil.
After all this done reinstall the lid, screw the 3 all-thread bolts back in to about 4" from the top of the lid. { you will tighten them later }
Install the Lovjoy coupler back onto the shaft with the Key.
Install the motor and mount, The vent hole on the lid is that back of the system.
After installing the motor mount tighten down the 4 nuts securing the motor and the lid.
you can now tighten down the 3 all-thread to hold down the static discs on the inside of the core. you do not need a lot here, to tight is BAD, just snug will do.
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Gabriel on 2013.03.08, 03:13:03
So my wife and I was out to dinner talking about this and she recalled not to long ago something that did happen to my PayPal account.
It was put on hold after receiving a payment from Iceland and after talking with them they wanted 5 forms of ID before they would release the funds and open up my account!!

Now me being myself I told them to take a flying hike and it was none of there business what I was selling or to whom. Now looking back at all this maybe not the best way to handle this. I just get sick of Big Brother watching of me like a child. 20/20 hindsight I am sure i was red flagged ...lol and I just got my pass port last week as well for the first time in my life.


                                                                                           >:-)  Gestapo  >:-)
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Chet K on 2013.03.08, 03:34:17
Gabriel
Seems you have a very good technician on the rebuild
O0
crazy story indeed,like a cheap B film movie script [a bit sloppy on the G man side]

thx
Chet
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Gabriel on 2013.03.08, 04:03:13
 :)

The rebuild will be easy 8) 

I bet we can test this this weekend if that works for Steve. I am leaving out of town this weekend and I will not have a cell on me. so if we can do this tomorrow then that would be nice. If I was there it would only take about 20 min. Someone needs to hurry up with the teleportation device.  O0

Chet,
     {I wish this was just a story}




Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.08, 04:15:06
Quote from: Oilpiggy on 2013.03.08, 03:02:28
Steve,

WONDERFUL about the motor :) :) :)

With Optimism

Remove the 3 all-thread bolts, then remove the lovejoy coupler.  After this remove the lid to the oil LV.

If the oil level is within 1.500" from the top we are fine. if it is lower add some oil, use only soy oil refined, cooking oil.
After all this done reinstall the lid, screw the 3 all-thread bolts back in to about 4" from the top of the lid. { you will tighten them later }
Install the Lovjoy coupler back onto the shaft with the Key.
Install the motor and mount, The vent hole on the lid is that back of the system.
After installing the motor mount tighten down the 4 nuts securing the motor and the lid.
you can now tighten down the 3 all-thread to hold down the static discs on the inside of the core. you do not need a lot here, to tight is BAD, just snug will do.


Ok, will begin with early daylight tomorrow. 

Q's:
1 Install the Lovjoy coupler back onto the shaft with the Key. -- what is the key? allen wrench, or other?    I don't find this in the crate if you sent.
2 Approximately how much soy oil would it take, maximum?  I will need to go buy some (no problem)
3  What constitutes the "seal" for oil retention?  is there a big O-ring, or what?
4  The lovjoy coupler has a plastic "asterisk" that was in it - about the same diameter, fits between the 3 teeth nicely.  What is this for?  *

Steve
ps -Thanks, you optimism is contagious!
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: TinMan on 2013.03.08, 14:13:30
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.08, 04:15:06

4  The lovjoy coupler has a plastic "asterisk" that was in it - about the same diameter, fits between the 3 teeth nicely.  What is this for?  *

Steve
ps -Thanks, you optimism is contagious!
That stays in the coupling-it stops the 3 steel fingers on each half of the coupling from hitting with a metal to metal contact.
It's kind of like a shock absorber.
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.08, 18:34:26
Gabriel --
1.  How do I loosen the Lovejoy coupler -- what kind of tool to release the key?  if you sent the tool, I find it nowhere in the new shipping crate.

2.  Uploading a vid showing dings on the top SS plate esp. between two of the bolts.  Also, much dried oil on bottom flange. And much oil I wiped off the unit and the motor -- as seen in previous vids, and now on the paper towel. 
Were all these there prior to shipment?  (especially those dings on the SS plate)?

See  http://youtu.be/F8uvNH1vQ2g   
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Gabriel on 2013.03.08, 18:40:27
Steve,

The Key should of been in the Key way between the lovejoy and the shaft that makes them 1 unit. Yes its should be there, I sent it fully assembled.
If it is not then whom every took it apart did not put it back. It is a 3/16x3/16x about 1.5" long, fits in the key way of the shaft and lovejoy.

It does take an Allen wrench, cant remember what size....... I think 1/8

You will only need oil "IF" it is empty or low, is it?  When it is fully empty it holds just shy of 2 US gallons. Cost around $15 dollars at any supper store.
 
After it is assembled the 4 nuts will seal the lid to the body, the body fits into an O-ring grove.

And tinman is right about the plastic part of the lovejoy, it is the shock absorber in the system.

Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Gabriel on 2013.03.08, 18:44:31
If the dings are next to the taped hole then I did that when a TAP broke on me and had to beat it out with a chisel and re tap the hole. 
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.08, 20:10:37
OK.  I found the appropriate allen wrench and loosened the coupler (which was down 1.4 mm from the top of the shaft, rather than flush) and removed coupler.

The orange sealant around the flange and cylinder was already broken, much of it gone.
Removed the 4 bolts, lifted the innards enough to see that there is:

1. No O-ring.  Entirely gone.  And not in the shipping container.

2.  No oil observed inside the vessel.

3. Sticking a flexible tape measure in, it is 8.5" from the bottom of the top metal housing flange down to the first disk.  Is this how its supposed to be?

At least, I will need a new O-ring and about 2 gallons of veg-oil. 
(This makes me angry, what "they" did.  This was no accident. )
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.08, 21:17:39
(I'm skyping Gabriel, per his suggestion.  Taking it apart properly, to see how it looks inside, or if they damaged it such that it is not functional... talk to y'all later.)
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.08, 23:14:27
OK!  I talked to Gabriel, and with him watching via skype as I disassembled with care .  It is clear that "they"  had it apart and did not know how to put it together!  The shims were not on properly, and the oil was gone also. 

Maybe by leaving nuts off and bolts loose they were sending a message -- "we messed this up... take apart, clean, add oil and rebuild before you hook it back up to the motor."  Nice guys, huh?   :)

Anyway, that's what I'll do with Gabriel's instruction.  Nothing appears permanently broken.

Pls see question about PF = 0.25 on the other Gabriel thread in this forum.

Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.12, 05:00:10
  Following Gabriel's instructions, I have removed the inner shims and the disks from the spin-axle.  

Gabriel told me to be very careful to NUMBER each disk so as to preserve the ordering, also the orientation.  I did so.
But right away, I noticed that most adjacent disk-faces do NOT show the same pattern of circular grooving -- see attached photos.

You can start with the bottom of the bottom disk which is un-grooved as it should be, but the top of the top disk shows grooving around the edge and deep grooving near the center.  What causes the grooving on the top of the topmost disk?  It looks like "they" did not keep track of the order of the disks!  and put it back together without respect for the order that Gabriel placed them in.

We see this in other cases also -- bottom of disk 3 and top of 2 were facing each other, yet the grooving patterns do NOT match.
Ditto for top of 5 an bottom of 7, and top of 1 and bottom of 2.

They really messed it up.   And messed up our efforts to TEST a rather straightforward and very safe device.  Surely they could have seen it was safe without removing the disks!  

BTW, when I first removed the disk assembly, several of the disks were off-kilter and rubbing.

Gabriel -- I'm ready to have you check this nonsense-ordering (from these guys) and also the deep grooves (e.g. disk 3).
Still willing to drive it out to you if necessary...
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: Gabriel on 2013.03.12, 05:17:52
I will Skype you  :o
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.12, 05:34:56
  OK, good. 

I just re-examined, looking for the pattern of marks left by the pressure bolts (circular marks, arranged in triangle on outside of static disks).  I found the tri-pattern on the top of disk 8 (topmost) as expected -- but also on Disk 6, on both top and bottom of disk 6!

A little detective work...  dang, I should have checked for finger prints  lol   :-\
Title: Re: Gabriel's heater arrives via Fedex TODAY in shambles; investigating why/how
Post by: PhysicsProf on 2013.03.12, 20:30:00
  The 1"-OD shims that go on the axle are about 3mm thick (annularly) except for one, about half that.  This one, noted Gabriel, needs to be on the bottom of the pile (#1 position).  But when I disassembled the disks, I numbered them and also numbered the 1" shims.  
The #1 shim was NOT in the proper position upon "arrival in shambles", but was rather in the #3 position.  So "they" definitely took it apart and reassembled it sloppily.  Evidently they didn't know that the order was important or just didn't care.

I also checked the flatness of the spin-plates, something Gabriel was concerned about.  I checked by simply placing each plate on a newer pane of glass, and moving pressure around with my fingers and thumb, checking for flatness.  5 of the plates were quite flush with the glass; three were not:

Disk 3 -- the edge admitted a nickel+3x5card easily (slid under the edge), out-of-flat there by approx 2.5 mm ~ 100 mils.

Disks 6 and 7 -- the edges admitted a penny, approx 1mm out of flat.