Welcome to the JTG topic where we can put more basic/vague or pretty much any JT info you want here!!!
I will start off by showing you a link to one of my Tube videos showing an MK1 X2 style collector and base coils with just a few turns of 22awg for the primary! Enjoy 8)
Nice, now we all need to use similar protocols to measure input and output powers of these oscillators, something that the other JT crowd simply aint doin!
Now you have your new scope it's time we start doing that. I've just taken delivery of 50 x 0.1 ohm 0.5 watt resistors, with these I plan to make a little probe box so that I can hook scope up and calc real RMS powers. If you want I can post you 10 of these hand picked to give true 1ohm and 5 watt power handling with no inductance if we lay them on a small vero board correctly. Just PM me your snail mail address if you want these. I'm presuming your rigol scope has sampling and simple math functions on it like multiplication and RMS?
That maxcap is unbelievably small for its capacity and V, where did you get it?
Yes I know there is pretty much no data but at the same time I can assure you it's just an efficient (well not that efficient) new design. I have since deconstructed it. My wife will not let me open the scope until Christmas ??? The probe box sounds awesome! I want to buil one...when I get some $$$ might be a while after the scope. I believe you have my yahoo address but let me know if you need it again.
Interesting new Super JT/Boost Circuit
For anyone that does not know how to build a JT! This is a very basic, simple and powerful JT! Have fun building 8)
Hey St that was great thanks for making that,it's the first time i have looked at the JT, it would be interesting to try the Avremenko plug i played with today on the JT, i think i better build one ;)
Cheers,
Peter
@fraser
QuoteNice, now we all need to use similar protocols to measure input and output powers of these oscillators, something that the other JT crowd simply aint doin!
I think some were measuring efficiency, my measurements ranged from 40% to over 90%.
I'm glad you liked it...I hope it was clear! Let me know if you need any help ;D
You've probably seen these, but I think these videos are quite fascinating and by far the most interesting and indeed intriguing JT experiments I've seen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZanIc5nS78A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLBG1eodFfE&feature=channel
Thank you for posting these Farrah Day! I have seen these and I completely agree with you that they are some of the most interesting vids I have seen as well!
If indeed the JT in the videos is tapping into radiant energy, it's doing it seemingly with a lot less trouble than Stiffler's SECs. From my experience SECs are far more temperamental than JTs requiring specific transistors and accurate tuning. By contrast the JT's are even simpler ccts, not too fussy about specific components and appear to work every time.
This new wireless phenomena adds yet another dimension to the JT saga, which has certainly notched my interest levels up a peg or two.
Perhaps... just perhaps, we do tend to overcomplicate things in our search to tap into radiant energy. Maybe it's just a matter of it being 'simple if you know how'! Great stuff.
Would be interesting to hear .99s view of those videos.
Got to say I'm a little surprised that not more people are picking up on the JT stuff. Jonny Davro is getting some intriguing results with this little cct, results that may go some way to explaining the apparent OU phenomena in other devices.
In the video linked below, he adds a 3rd winding to a ferrite toroid and finds that when this 3rd winding is used to power a LED, the current in the primary cct falls! This little toroid would seem to me to be comparable to Bob Boyce's much larger toroid in the application whereby Watykyki...thingy person is self-charging his kids toy car battery.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5irW__iwfk&feature=channel
This is so easy to replicate that I really do not understand why more people have not dropped what they are doing just to give it a quick go. unlike may youtube videos that lack useful detail, Davro, shows his ccts and often talks you through his experiments. Hence, unlike many videos, he does not leave you guessing on specific details.
If you haven't looked yet boys, I would recommend you checking out all of his videos.
In fact it would be really nice to get the guy to come over here.
Another good find! I will rewatch this vid later today at a computer with sound. I have just ordered some parts to replicate this and will share any results. I will probably get the parts in a week or so.
Toko coil (still not quite sure what this is yet???)
3 different types of 4KV trigger coils
Inductor assortment
several different types of PNP transistors 5 of which are germenium
micro bridge rectifiers.
There are a few of his videos lacking sound for some reason, this is unfortunately one. But as he provides full cct details it's easy enough to replicate and confirm his results anyway.
Here is my first go at the simple SEC or SuperJT....whatever you want to call it!
Here are some pics on some of new tests(5vdc in)!
I put up the wave form because the diamond pattern seemed interesting!
The tube is 8 watts drawing 24.56ma!
Very little MA draw 2.88!
Cool..
stprue if you measure the width of the diamond pattern then adjust the frequency say 10hz at a time in one direction the patter will get wider.. keep going until you get the pattern almost flat and you are near a resonant frequency..
It's funny I actually learned this by accident>Moving my hand near it does that!
:)
True!
moving your hand changes both the capacitance and inductance of your tank
Here is my recent vid! I have sense improved the circuit so that I don't need to touch it and in fact I have added a couple of LEDs on an additional av plug and I can reduce the ma draw by adding LED's!
So more LED's= less MA draw.......this is getting fun ;D ;D
Here is my new video showing me adding more leds via AV plug on the receiver metal and it draws less ma's!!!
Hi St
Yes a good replication and confirmation of Johnny Davros findings. Rather intriguing isn't it?
Just trying to get your head around what might be occuring is difficult in itself. It's hard to make sense of it if you view things from the way we would normally look at things.
How can we possibly be getting a power reduction from the source by powering additional ccts?
Really interesting stuff. I only wish more people were applying themselves to this, because this isn't as speculative as most of the other things knocking about and is so easy to reproduce.
I'm wondering just how far we can take this.
Thank you for your response! On this particular set up the pickup actually is a loop of wire and the pan is the virtual ground so by putting my AV probe on the VG I light LED's and reduce the draw!!
I bet if I attached another VG from the probe I could get more LED's lit. That will be my next test.
Directions on how to replicate! No excuses now!
4KV Trigger coil
Top leg=output connect to pan
Bottom front/right=collector
Bottom back/right=not used
Bottom back/left= + rail
Transistor
Emmiter= - rail
Base=Pan
I also wanted to post a new tube vid from user Kooler that shows a JT with a different set up lighting 9 LED's and running on 1.2 v and drawing 1.5ma very impressive.
Here is my replication of Koolers JT circuit! Video soon to follow!
1.5v
Draw is .07ma
7 leds
Good job Stew.
That thing should run for a couple years perhaps with a fresh AA. Why don't you try that?
The current seems a little low. Sure that meter is reading correctly? Is the meter in series with the battery side or the output side?
.99
Thanks Poynt, it seems to be a very interesting circuit that is actually moving ahead of this test pretty fast. The meter is in series on the battery side not the output. I hope my meter is reading right as it has been subjected to high voltage and I have blown fuses ;D There are a few other people working with this backwards JT circuit and they are dwaring similar amounts for the battery.
Here is a modified set up of the backwards JT....better efficiency!
When I hit resonance 1 led draws the same as when I use 10 leds! Pretty cool!
That getting really cool!
It needs to run off an energy sucking antenna where you can tune it in to 60hz or even a local radio station.
You could make a head light for joggers that ran off of body heat with a thermoelectric chip ;D
This updated version of the backwards JT is running much better and I have some new transistors coming in soon that should further improve the efficiency. I'm not sure if you have been folloing Koolers circuit but his seems to be feeding BEMF back into the source battery! I'm not sure if this is actually happening but it's pretty interesting! It's funny you mention running it off a energy sucking antenna, because that's what I want to do with it...or see if I could do with it. I was thinking of making a crysal radio/no battery/no massive antenna but I'm not sure yet! Any suggentions on what might actually get this thing running???
~Stew
Hi St
Great job, amazingly low current drawn, one way to be sure maybe to use a charged 1000uF cap to 1.5volts and monitor the time it takes to run down to 1.2v, you can work out here
http://www.electronics2000.co.uk/calc/capacitor-charge-calculator.php
How many Joules are stored in a 1000uF @ 1.5v =1.125 Mili Joules if it ends at 1.2v then =720 micro joules and if you know the time it takes you can work out the watts(joules/second) that has depleted.
This rules out any meter inaccuracy and could help as a double check.
Peter
Here a circuit for a Signal Field Strength meter notice it can drive a 50uA meter without any added power ;)
http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/wireless/pics/fs_meter.png
Peter
Thats a really good idea Peter, and I actually have a 1000uf 35v cap! I will run this test, it will be a lot quicker then my last 5 tests or so with the 10F cap I have been using.
;D
So I would be using just the top half of that circuit?
It would appear so, it says the op amps are optional
Well it looks easy to build I would just need to get some 1N5711 doides! I wonder if I could substitute with 1n34a germanium! Peter do you know the output v's on the meter?
I may also be able to use one of those air circuits....maybe
Like this one mind the presentation, I know it looks like fraud but you can replicate and get a volt or 2 out.
Any small signal schottky diode would do,i am not sure if the Germainium diode would work for this
QuotePeter do you know the output v's on the meter?
Not quiet sure what you mean by this, maybe you are asking what voltage you would get out, i guess it would depend on how strong the signal is that it is picking up, he refers to 2.4Ghz so this is harvesting energy from your broadband router or bluetooth frequency's, if you do build the circuit, use a 1000uF cap in place of the meter and monitor the voltage across it, you will also be able to do the discharged cap trick and time it's voltage increase to work out your joules capture rate and you would then be able to know if it should power your Reverse JT
Yeah the video circuit would also do the job.
Ok I get that! I will let you know how the cap test goes.
Thanks for the info's!
i made a new circuit.. mostly of inductors ..
you guys may find it interesting..
video is here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqbPwhVarb4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqbPwhVarb4)
robbie
@ Kooler
Another good video those inductor help in brightness a lot, I didn't realize you were a member at OUR!
There are a lot of good people here willing to help.
I remember you were using a coil cell battery that was at like 1.46v or so, has it run down at all?
Here is a scope shot taken off the output side with no led.
The other picture is blurry so sorry but it is showing the led being lit off a capacitor that was charged (only 2.5v...not much) with the simple tesla radiant energy circuit.
The led will last approximately 5-7 seconds.
Quote from: stprue on 2010.03.06, 12:06:48
@ Kooler
Another good video those inductor help in brightness a lot, I didn't realize you were a member at OUR!
There are a lot of good people here willing to help.
I remember you were using a coil cell battery that was at like 1.46v or so, has it run down at all?
i didn't mess with the coin cell all that long..my A.D.D. keeps kicking in and i can't finish nothing..
yea this is a real nice layout on the forum here i like the shout box..
robbie
By changing the cap. and resistor values I have lowered my draw even more! Since my DMM is not accurate this low here is the math.
Cap charged 1000uf @1.5v=1.125mJ
Test finished @ .705v which is .248513mJ
so 1.125mJ-.248513=.876487mJ over 28sec.
uW or uJ per second = 31.3031
New results by placing two 10pF caps across the emitter collector!
Cap charged 1000uf @1.5v=1.125mJ
Test finished at .734 which is .269378mJ
so 1.125mJ-.269378mJ=.855622mJ over 31sec
uW or uJ per second = 27.6007
Really good test results with new coil 8)
Cap charged 1000uf @1.5v=1.125mJ
Test Finished at .547v which is .149605mJ
so 1.125mJ-.149605=.975395 over 125sec
uW or uJ per second = 7.8031 WOW
More tweaking! 3 Transistors!
Cap charged 1500uf @1.5v=1.688mJ
Test finished at .514v witch is .198147mJ
so 1.688mJ-.198147mJ=1.489853 over 192sec
uW or uJ per sec = 7.7596
5.17uA draw
I meant to put this pic here last week.
Well I think I found a secret...maybe :D My test results speak for them selves!
Cap charged 1500uf @1.5v=1.688mJ
Test Finished at .611v which is .279991mJ
so 1.688mJ-.279991mJ=1.408009 over 603sec
2.335 uW or uJ
=1.5566uA draw
Here is the video in regards to the data I have been posting.
I apologise ahead of time that you cant see the blinking.
I will make a quick follow up video showing the LED blinking!
Hi ST,
Not too sure if this would work but, could the LED be series wired to charge the main cap as it flashes?
simple but effective regeneration, maybe incorporate that inductor too somewhere to perhaps increase the voltage on the charge/flash cct.
Its your baby and getting better.
Cheers Steve.
Thank you for the comment Steve!
I will try this test and time it!
:)
Ok I'm have not had any inspiration in a while and I'm bored so I have been further tweaking my BJT
Cap charged 1500uf @1.5v=1.688mJ
Test Finished at .573v which is .246247mJ
so 1.688mJ-.246247mJ=1.441753 over 611sec
2.3596uW
Draw=1.573uA
The difference is that it will run a little longer and and down to a lower voltage.
Ok I have tuned my novel device/toy to where I want it!!!!
I have an oscillator BJT circuit that will power an LED indefin.....well with normal circumstances ;D
The BJT is a Kooler mutation but will run on a 1.5-2.3v mini calculator solar panel as long as the components last.
The solar charges an already charged 2.3v@10F max cap and will light an led (not bright) all day and through the night.
The OSC range is around 20hzs-7Khz output
If you choose to build this please try Koolers easier BJT's as pre-rec because this is very tough to tune!!!!!.....but I built this off his most successful version so use his schematic 8)
Joule Thief enthusiasts,
For those seeking further challenges and improvements with this project, here is a circuit that claims to allow battery operation down to 250mV.
Credits to the author: Louis Vlemincq of EDN Magazine. (I put it all together in a convenient PDF.)
.99
.99,
Kudos for the compilation.
This looks like a great little circuit. I seem to recall posts about folks being satisfied about perpetual motion if only they could light an LED with no batteries (probably on another forum).
This could do it. Power it off of a few series connected thermocouples at room temperature or wind a large air-core coil with a detector diode. Either should suffice as a power supply for this circuit.
Of course, today this won't be OU because now we know how thermocouples and EMI detection works.
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011.01.03, 00:51:51
.99,
Kudos for the compilation.
This looks like a great little circuit. I seem to recall posts about folks being satisfied about perpetual motion if only they could light an LED with no batteries (probably on another forum).
This could do it. Power it off of a few series connected thermocouples at room temperature or wind a large air-core coil with a detector diode. Either should suffice as a power supply for this circuit.
Of course, today this won't be OU because now we know how thermocouples and EMI detection works.
Thermocouples are inherently differential measuring or emf generating devices. The "hot" junction is subtracted from the "reference junction". As such you need a source of heat and sink to generate emf.
ION,
What you say is true but thermocouples will generate an EMF when heat is applied simply because the act of drawing current from the thermocouple cools one side of the differential contact point.
I wasn't shooting for accuracy just enough EMF to feed the circuit.
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011.01.03, 14:53:06
ION,
What you say is true but thermocouples will generate an EMF when heat is applied simply because the act of drawing current from the thermocouple cools one side of the differential contact point.
I wasn't shooting for accuracy just enough EMF to feed the circuit.
You said "Power it off of a few series connected thermocouples at room temperature"
In a series connected thermocouple circuit there is
no current flow until there is a difference in temperature. You cannot draw any power from a TC circuit unless there is a temperature difference between the various junctions. You cannot have current flow in the closed loop at equilibrium temperature of the junctions, nor can you induce current to flow in a closed thermocouple circuit i.e. create a heat engine if there is no temperature difference. It cannot bootstrap itself into a temperature difference.
You can, however, inject current into the loop and create a temperature difference between the differential junctions.
If you can make it work otherwise, you will have a free energy self bootstrapping system, and I will throw out all my reference material and life work in thermocouple thermometry.
http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_9/5.html
read all the way to the bottom of the page.
My thought was the use of a thermopile by means of connecting thermocouples in series. Since I have never built one, don't throw out your reference material. I will concede to your greater knowledge of the device.
You learn something every day here.
I take it the series connected thermocouple connections must have common cold and hot areas separated. i.e. heat sink on one side and heat source on the other.
Then I must correct my suggestion from a bunch of thermocouples in series to using a thermopile, instead. Since they can produce voltage into the hundreds of millivolts, that should be enough to power the circuit.
>>Edit
It is good you made me think about my earlier post. Obviously, series connections of thermocouples, to boost voltage, would mean creating additional t-couple junctions with each series connection. Since t-couple wire IS the same metal as that side of the joint, this would create a reverse polarity canceling the effect of the manufactrured junction.
I don't know why I didn't just try it before blathering. I have a case of E & K types, with the correct wire, in the basement. DUH :o
A thermo-pile is a string of connected thermo-couples.
There won't be any potential difference between the terminals if there isn't a temperature gradient on either side of the junction(s).
In order to produce a voltage potential, you first have to create a temperature gradient within the device. One method is to place one side of it against a surface that is hotter or colder than the ambient temperature.
.99
Understood..... NOW ;D
Thanks to ION !
ION,
I'm embarrassed. I've been using such devices (not thermopiles) since the late seventies. I know all about the requirements for wire used and the importance of running it all the way to the instrument (so the circuit can compensate for the unintended junction at the terminals).
Lately, I have cringed at the sight of speaker wire being used to extend process monitoring sensors.
BUT --- I still made the mistake because I never looked into exactly how a thermopile works. I believe E types can put out around 50mV/deg C? Maybe it is time to build a thermopile ;)
I've been on a rampage to 5S (don't ask) my benches and junk piles. I was going to scrap the S wire for the platinum. I'll have to think about it now.
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2011.01.03, 22:05:25
I've been on a rampage to 5S (don't ask) my benches and junk piles. I was going to scrap the S wire for the platinum. I'll have to think about it now.
I made a lot of mistakes early in my career that taught me the hard way. Luckily I had a good mentor.
As for the platinum rhodium S wire, be sure you have the real McCoy not extension grade wire or it may not be worth that much.
QuoteExtension wire
Extension grade wires made of the same metals as a higher-grade thermocouple are used to connect it to a measuring instrument some distance away without introducing additional junctions between dissimilar materials which would generate unwanted voltages; the connections to the extension wires, being of like metals, do not generate a voltage. In the case of platinum thermocouples, extension wire is a copper alloy, since it would be prohibitively expensive to use platinum for extension wires. The extension wire is specified to have a very similar thermal coefficient of EMF to the thermocouple, but only over a narrow range of temperatures; this reduces the cost significantly.
Oh it is the real McCoy. It isn't extension wire.
One spool is 100%, the other is the alloy. If memory serves, the expensive one cost me almost $5k back in the late 80's.
We used them to feed a machine that made thermocouples for a government job.
Probably the best investment I've made, even though it was accidental (Uncle Sam canceled the contract mid-stream).
Hello all and happy holidays!!
I thought that I would post my ultra low power JT circuit. It will run off a copper and magnesium ring but I have not fully tested it's capabilities. The battery that I mostly use is a rechargeable that was at 1.01v, which will pull between .4-.8ua, at the time of the tests.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlXKvnj-TuQ