We may know about the Yildiz magnetic motor by the end of the week, as Sterling Allan has flown to Geneva to observe - along with many others -- the Yildiz device. His day-by-day blog is here:
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Event:2013:Validating_Muammer_Yildiz%27_Magnet_Motor_for_30_Days_at_European_University
Here is a magnetic motor going on public, international display beginning April 10, 2013.
Please note, there is no need to make pre-judgements about this motor; we can observe and decide for ourselves.
Sterling writes:
QuoteUpdate (as of April 5, 2013): Mr. Yildiz has been invited by the Turkish patent office to demonstrate his all-magnet motor at the Inventors Expo in Geneva, Switzerland, from April 10-14. They are paying his way. He plans to have more than one motor, and for at least one of them to run the entire duration. The idea is to run it more than long enough to rule out the possibility of hidden batteries inside. Yildiz has invited me to participate in this event, and thanks to so many of you who have chipped in, I will be attending and reporting from there.
This page is to provide an updated chronicle of events pertaining to the test of Muammer Yildiz' All-Magnet Motor at the Inventors Expo in Geneva, Switzerland from April 10-14, 2013. At least three universities will be involved in observing and documenting the demonstrations done there. After the Geneva expo, Mr. Yildiz plans to have the motor(s) tested in a university lab, in a more controlled environment. Yildiz is very determined to achieve vindication, after all these years of people questioning his technology and his motives.
As these things are accomplished, the scientific world will have to revise their models of physics that predict that such a motor is impossible. Also, Yildiz will have the verification he needs to bring this to market. He may also do an open license (allowing people download plans, build a company, remit royalty once commercial) on the lower power version in the range of 1 kW.
Sterling is keeping us apprised by his enthusiastic (not to say hyped) vids... Here's the latest I've seen, from earlier today:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TBjeOvZAqKg
Sterling claims that copper pennies will stick to the device... strange if true.
Note that the public display/testing begins tomorrow, 10 April.
Same old speakly. Nothing new if nothing is shown. I don't want to hear him talk about coulda, shoulda, woulda! OOh How exciting...
NOT. No meat.
Steve
there was some mention on the colman galespy 70 yr battery which had a self sustaining non ferrous electromagnetic characteristic [I just can't find that claim ATM]
also this nonferrous magnet
http://www.rexresearch.com/mrmagnet/mrmagnet.htm
We went to expense of visiting him in Turkey a year (or years now?) ago ... there has ALWAYS been excuses as to why it couldn't run more than an hour or so. We are there again now to see if anything has changed.
QuoteSterling claims that copper pennies will stick to the device... strange if true.
I hope thats not UK Copper pennies as they are copper plated iron these days O0
Mark
If you could get the part number from his driving fans as well as the dimensions on his "torque Tube"?
we can do a control run and tell exactly how much load is being demonstrated by that setup.
RPM, duration ...and temperature at time of test, also humidity and atmospheric pressure , will completely nail the controls validity.
the best of course would be if he'll offer up a spare blade for a few weeks ??
Thx
Chet
@giantkiller -- I am not endorsing this device, but I would like to have freedom of information about it and decide for myself based on evidence.
10 April: The link
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Event:2013:Validating_Muammer_Yildiz%27_Magnet_Motor_for_30_Days_at_European_University
does not work for me today, the opening day of the demonstration.
Indeed, I can't even open "peswiki.com" . "Not found". Is anyone else having this problem?
Quote from: Mark Snoswell on 2013.04.10, 06:16:31
We went to expense of visiting him in Turkey a year (or years now?) ago ... there has ALWAYS been excuses as to why it couldn't run more than an hour or so. We are there again now to see if anything has changed.
Welcome to the forum, Mark.
"We are there again now " -- are you in Geneva then? Can you tell us if they have the device running at the expo?
Quote from: ramset on 2013.04.10, 05:50:02
Steve
there was some mention on the colman galespy 70 yr battery which had a self sustaining non ferrous electromagnetic characteristic [I just can't find that claim ATM]
also this nonferrous magnet
http://www.rexresearch.com/mrmagnet/mrmagnet.htm
Here is the 1953 patent for the Colman - Gillespie battery. Interesting LENR reaction.
To continuously produce 1kW it needs to be RF excited once an hour for 15-30 seconds at 300MHz. The wattage of the short UHF blast is unknown, though the LENR aspect (and gamma rays) probably suggest input power less than 1kW/h to keep it running continuously for 70-80 years.
schott key
Thx for the document,I can see its quite simple indeed....[stupid simple actually]
@Physics Prof
No go on that link here?
April: The link
http://peswiki.com/index.php/Event:2013:Validating_Muammer_Yildiz%27_Magnet_Motor_for_30_Days_at_European_University
I do see MH is commenting on a disappointing streaming vid at the You tube link you posted.
HERE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=TBjeOvZAqKg
Chet
http://www.justin.tv/pesnetwork#/w/5340699200/3
It is here
Mike 8)
OK, I see it -- thanks, Mike.
Posted message from Sterling:
http://pesn.com/2013/04/10/9602291_Yildiz_magnet-motor_runs_5.5-hours_at_Geneva_demo_day_1/
QuoteReport on the Yildiz Magnet Motor Demo in Geneva, April 10, 2013; 4:30 pm GMT.
by Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News
PESWiki (which is where http://YildizDemo.com forwards) seems to be down presently, so I'm sending this report out by email to our mailing list. I've sent a notice to our server provider to inform them of the outage. Hopefully it will be repaired soon. Meanwhile, the live stream can be found at http://www.justin.tv/pesnetwork
We've had a lot of internet connectivity problems here at Palexpo [low-quality, expensive internet service], so most of the morning the feed was not going out. That is in process of being resolved with a Cat5 connection with 1 Mbs upload speed (cost $432 to set that up for the remaining 4 days). I forgot that internet is not nearly as robust in Europe as it is in the US, and I expected that the Expo wifi would be adequate.
This morning, when Mr. Yildiz went to start the motor at around 10:05 am, shortly after the conference opened, it didn't start. He pulled it into a closet at their booth for about 20 minutes, then emerged. Then he started it by the way you've seen on the web.
The motor ran from 10:28 am to 2:50 pm GMT, nearly 5.5 hours.
It started at 2600 rpm, then went up in speed to 2673, then down and up that range for about 3 hours.
Then, a magnet was "loose", and the motor began to slow. Then, he said that the magnet alignment malfunction began to cascade so that 3 were out of line. By 2:21, the speed was 2064. A noise could be heard from the motor, so he turned it off.
Then, at 3:10 pm, he turned it on again, and it went to 1930 rpm, then began dropping rapidly
1734 rpm at 3:12
1522 at 3:15
He stopped it at 3:16 pm
The temperature was around 23 degrees on the front and back bearings, just 1 degree C above room temp: 22 C
So presently, the motor is off.
He plans to work on it this evening, then run it again tomorrow, hopefully all day (and hopefully through the night too).
Assistant professor Duarte is present. Last night he openly stated to the group of about 12 people assembled in a villa in France, that he has seen inside the motor and there are no batteries in there.
Also, yesterday, Yildiz demonstrated an effect in which copper coins (which normally are not attracted to magnets) stuck to the outside of the magnet motor, while silver-colored coins (which normally are attracted to magnets) drop off the outside of the same motor body -- the opposite of what you would expect. This illustrates that there is something very unusual going on.
Duarte also points out that with magnets rotating around in vicinity of aluminum that there should be eddy currents and heat produced; but that is not observed in this set-up. (Remember, he saw inside and saw the magnets.)
The booth has been busy with observers all day up until about 4 pm. Now that the motor is stopped, the walk-by interest has dropped significantly, as could be understood.
He hasn't run the smaller motor at all today yet. When I get free here, I hope to ask him to run it. I want to burn my hand on the shaft trying to stop it with bare hands. That motor has no control, so it has to be stopped by gloves on the shaft to prevent it from speeding to destruction.
Rene and his film crew have been here all day, including for about an hour after the motor was stopped.
I had to fork out $34 SF (close to USD) for lunch. Crazy expensive here. The airport next door will be much cheaper, and you all know how expensive airport food is.
Having a great time. Thanks for enabling me to come here. I think it will be well worth the trip.
I've shot a lot of photos and video, and will be getting some of that up soon, hopefully.
| Sterling D. Allan,
| "The government's job should be to protect freedom, not control our lives."
About the "copper" coins -- Sterling did a vid of experiments and makes an important correction:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7f3JSB3948&feature=youtu.be
QuoteTest (as you would expect): Coins Attracted to Yildiz Magnet Motor at Palexpo April 10
Published on Apr 10, 2013
It turns out that "copper" colored coins are not pure copper, but contain iron or other ferrous metal that is attracted to magnets. So what I reported yesterday is nullified by this test.
But it is another demonstration to show that the device is magnetic.
Not surprised by this correction.
Various videos acquired by Sterling at the Geneva expo are linked here:
http://pesn.com/2013/04/10/9602292_Yildiz_All-Magnet-Motor_Demo_Blog/
From one of these, we see Yildiz and the banner behind him; see attached.
Note:
QuoteNo Fuel. No Battery. No Clockwork. No Compressed Air. No Nuclear Reactions. No Tricks.
I watched those videos on pesn,and was wondering what is ment by ! magnetic assisted motor's !!? Im also wondering as to why the small one they spun to show this magnetic assistance just didnt keep going if they are an all magnet motor?.
Another 6 to 18 i think.
Not looking so good now -- neither machine is running at the Expo.
Sterling writes:
QuoteThursday April 11, 11:40 am GMT: Waiting for Silicon to Dry
Yildiz made some repairs last night. Waiting for the silicon (adhesive) to dry. But even then, because some of the magnet fragments from yesterday's failure are loose in the device, Yildiz doesn't want to risk cascading failure, so he is not likely to try for a continuous run, though he will be turning it on and off for special visitors.
It would take him a day and a half to take the motor apart, clean up the fragments, and reassemble the motor
They are also hoping to do a demo of the smaller motor, but it doesn't have a controller on it, so it has to be stopped by grabbing the shaft with a glove (or taking it apart [which isn't an option in an open setting like this]).
I found the meter used to measure RPM's - it also can measure temperature (non-contact):
http://www.extech.com/instruments/product.asp?catid=21&prodid=16
It is seen in one of the vids from 10 April. Note the reading - 1517 (RPM), for this run at about 3pm on 10 April.
I find it so predictable these days,there is always something going wrong on public test day's or demonstrations-but in the privacy of there own home the things run for years without problem's.Thank god for solar.
Ooh i know. Lets wait for further progress...
He probably needs to feed the gerbil.
Quote from: TinMan
...there is always something going wrong on
public test day's or demonstrations...
Aye. It may simply be a case of Murphy's
Law, or then again, it may not...
Quote from: Dumped on 2013.04.11, 21:32:02
Aye. It may simply be a case of Murphy's
Law, or then again, it may not...
I agree - experimental observations and hard work will resolve the issue... I hope!
Here is today's report from Sterling relating to the Yildiz motor demo:
Quote
Yildiz Magnet Motor Demo Report, April 11, 2013
Even though the motor was not continuously running, only occasionally for a brief demo, the energy of the people visiting the booth at the Inventors Expo in Geneva was still very high; and there were things observable today that were not noticed or addressed yesterday. The believers have more reason to believe.
by Sterling D. Allan
Pure Energy Systems News
Even though the motor was not continuously running, the energy of the people visiting the booth at the Inventors Expo in Geneva was still very high as they met other like-minded people, shared business cards, talked business, shared dreams about the future, and strategized about how to help Mr. Yildiz succeed, along with other technologies of promise.
As I returned to the Villa in France where the documentary film crew is staying (Ronny and are parked out in front with the motorhome Ronny rented for 550 Euros for the week), they asked me if I felt let down by today's lack of a motor running continuously. I told them that for me, I am glad that the motor was not running continuously, because I was able to see several significant things that I would not have seen otherwise. It makes it more real. I am even more convinced today than I was yesterday.
If it had just been a matter of the motor slowing down yesterday, before they shut it off, then I think the skepticism would have been higher, but because the noise increased, giving evidence that something had gone amiss, it was easier to believe Mr. Yildiz' explanation that some magnets had gotten out of place and could create a cascading, catastrophic failure if he kept it running continuously.
And last night, his showing Ronny, Halil, and me some of the magnet fragments he pulled out of the motor, gave physical evidence of what he was saying. And with that, it wasn't hard to imagine how some of the unretrieved fragments of the brittle neodymium magnets could be lodged elsewhere in the motor, causing problems and possibly instigating a major failure.
Actually, I was somewhat surprised that he was still willing to give the motor a run at various times throughout the day. And for me, watching the motor start and stop gave me even more confidence that it is indeed a magnet motor and not a motor powered by a hidden battery. It was obvious that the braking mechanism that caused the motor to stop, once released by Yildiz' use of the screwdriver, hit with a mallet, immediately, within maybe a 1/5 of a second, allowed the motor then accelerate to full speed. However, when he hit that mechanism in the reverse direction, to stop the motor through the brake, it took maybe 3-5 seconds to slow to a stop, which is consistent with a brake on a resisting force.
So as I described the motor to curious passers by, I would tell them that as the motor is sitting there stopped, it is under tension to want to accelerate, which it immediately does when the brake is disengaged.
There was no electric motor sound during that acceleration.
Another convincing demonstration that Yildiz did was to hold a coin perpendicular to the small motor as it was turned slowly. You could see the coin flop back and forth as the magnetic polarity passing by it changed. (Video)
Also, the behavior of that smaller motor was consistent with the concept of all-magnet power. With very slow rotation speed by hand, moving it maybe 2 rpm, you could feel a very strong cogging. It almost hurt your finger to push on the fan blade to get it past a cogging point. Yet if you pushed it a little harder, it would begin spinning for several revolutions. That behavior is completely inconsistent with how a motor would behave if there were some kind of hidden battery and motor. It is totally consistent with the notion of a magnetic motor. Throughout the day, people were toying with that propeller. That alone convinced a lot of people that there is something unusual going on here.
The closest motor that might have action like this is a stepper motor, but some of the action of Yildiz motor is not consistent with a stepper motor.
Meanwhile, the propeller on the larger motor that had the brake on it, did not turn, due to the brake, consistent with the idea of the brake holding it in place, and its release allowing its movement.
Visitors
Several celebrities in the free energy movement visited the booth today and hung out for many hours. Adolph and Inge Schneider were there, and at least Adoph had shifted from his skepticism to a very definite optimism.
Giorgio Iacuzzo from Nexus Magazine was there, and I was able to do an interview for him.
The most surprising visitor and reaction, for me, was from a person who for now does not wish to be announced, but who is a very credible figure in the field, playing an incubating role. I thought for sure he would be among the most skeptical. But I heard him tell someone, in my presence, that he has been tracking the field of free energy for many years, hunting for legitimate technologies to assist, and of all the technologies he presently knows of, this one is the most promising.
He spent several hours with Mr. Yildiz last night, was at the booth much of the day yesterday, and almost all day today. He and Yildiz' team have a very good chemistry. He is going to be arranging a laboratory testing of the motor near the end of May, which will pass full scientific rigor. They plan on testing a motor with a 5 kW load, with all necessary observation, measurement, and protocol to fully vindicate the motor. Then, he plans to help them get the engineering needed to improve the reliability of the motor and to help bring it to market.
I talked with an investor with a European company that has annual revenue of 1.5 billion, who is visiting Defkalion next week. He's also interested in the Yildiz motor, and had dinner with the above-mentioned guy, myself, and several others this evening. Fascinating conversation enjoyed by all.
One of the guys at the table also doesn't want his face/identity to be published, but he goes by YoungTesla at YouTube, and upon hearing his many accounts, the name is quite fitting. While still at the expo, he showed us a "superbowl" video he posted to his channel, which shows a pot of water in an 800-year-old bowl he got from India, being brought over a stove. The water vibrated instead of boiling, and raised to 160 C and never boiled. I can't remember his explanation, but it sounded plausible. He said he also has built a working magnet motor but put it on hold due to being harassed by black SUVs and such.
He explained how he thinks the Yildiz motor works. He said that what the motor does is forward the eddy current to an advanced magnet to cause it to change properties. So instead of creating heat, the eddy current enables to motor to operate. This is consistent with the measurements we took yesterday that showed that while operating at around 2600 rpm, the motor did not heat up at all. Maybe 1 degree C above room temperature at the bearings. Normally, magnets passing by aluminum (which is what the motor walls are made of) creates heat. But no heat is created in Yildiz' motor.
Another highlight from the day was meeting with a group of four guys from Slovenia who drove 8 hours to see the Yildiz motor. They have created a company, ENSTROJ, bringing forward a super-efficient, high-power motor/generator, which is now in production, recently finishing a batch of 20 motors. It was measured by Siemens to have an efficiency of 96%, with power output from between 5 kw and 100 kw. It weighs 2-3 times less than competing motors, and costs 2-3 times less. It is a great technology to pair with something like the Yildiz motor. I shot a video interview with them.
One of their scientists is also involved in LENR research, and has ideas about how to create high torque in a compact package.
I also spent time visiting with a couple of businessmen, including Dr. Ing. Mihai Sanduleac, who came from Romania to see the demonstration. We hope to drive to France either tomorrow or Saturday to visit the guy who has the Kapagen motor there, if we can contact them and make an appointment.
Coming Sunday
On Sunday, Himansh Verma from India is flying in for the demo. He asked me today what I thought about it, and based on my recommendations, he's making the trip. We helped him get his visa last week.
Who is Himansh? He's the guy I've been talking about from India who is serving as free energy scout for the Chief Minister of Punjab, the northern province. He's the one with the self-looped motor-generator technology that is now going into production. They are building manufacturing plants; and they are entertaining licensing for this technology.
This is why I have been listing that technology as #1 in our Top 5 Exotic Free Energy Technologies for a few months. The down side is that they are still many months away from these products actually being available for customers. It takes time to ramp up the manufacturing plants.
You might ask: "If they have this self-looped motor generator technology, using off-the-shelf motors and generators, at a low cost, why would the even bother to look at other technologies?" The answer is that they want a diverse portfolio and more than one solution. Hence, he is coming to Geneva to meet with the Yildiz magnet motor team.
...
Presently (April 11, 2013 08:10:45 PM MST [GMT-8]) working on uploading videos shot today.
http://www.youtube.com/user/PESNetwork - channel where I'm uploading videos
...
I find this electric motor very interesting, any thoughts?
http://www.enstroj.si/Electric-products/emrax-motors.html
Mike 8)
Mike
Made in Slovenia?
Is this the group Sterling met with ?
54 HP 10 KG 96-7 % efficient
whats not to like !!
Crazy good !!
We need a good light weight motor....this is amazing .
Whats it cost??
thx
Chet
I have doubts about the Yildiz motor.
There's too much volume to it, for the power delivered, in intermediate runs.
I think when he goes in the closet, he winds it up and injects it with energy. When I see him tinkering with that hammer to start it, and stop it, I can't help but think its some diversion to distract people. The motor looks very nice, machined aluminum face, etc ,so how come he hasn't engineered a nice start/stop mechanism easily operated to match the quality of the rest of its design. I don't know, I just get a bad feeling from these guys.
EM
I have concerns also.
I've been following quite a bit at http://www.justin.tv/pesnetwork#/w/5362097264
They have not run the smaller device.
It is true, however, on 10 April (first day) they ran the big motor for about 4.5 hours...
Then it had problems and repairs, and they say they only run it in spurts.
Sterling says they worked much of last night on the smaller device, but it is still not running.
Not much scientific data or showing the operation of both motors they have there - mostly they just sit idle as now.
I was hoping for long run-times to rule out batteries, functioning of both motors, temperature (at various spots) and RPM measurements (they gave a few of the latter), magnetic field readings, recording the SOUND on start-up and shut-down, power-output measurements. Some of these measurements are straightforward to perform.
Salve Distinguished Gentlemen,
Yet another Steorn Kinetica demonstration effect (YASKIDEE) or what?
I have the feebleness to 'believe' that Muammer Yildiz is into something (and
also, BTW, that the Steorn all-magnets device had been working (in Dublin)).
Murphy's or William A. Tiller Law(s)?
IMO, the fact that a non-conventional device works in some specific "loaded" location
does not imply that it automatically must work in another "free of kinda 'spelling'" place.
You might consult: http://www.tiller.org/
or even Rupert Sheldrake.
This ain't scientific-official? I do not care...
-------------------
Just a remark, please:
Yes, indeed, tinkering such a nice device with an hammer to start it does not bode well
concerning the credibility of the operator.
What also about these cutting non protected blades?
This aint' good work for us and US. But this is a mere culture shock. Is it not?
I would have some 'culture shock' anecdotes to narrate you but this would be (too) off topic.
------------------------------------
Just one off topic observation and one question, please:
The observation:
We all have noticed, once only or more than once, that some of our email(s) curiously
vanished in some 4th Dimension and not reached our correspondent. No?
The question is to PhysicsProf:
Did you receive my last email (about Monatomic Hydrogen)?
Cordiali saluti a tutti
I did indeed, Nerzh. Thank you. I'm enjoying reading this insightful writing; still reading and digesting.
-Etienne
Quote from: NerzhDishual on 2013.04.12, 22:40:36
Salve Distinguished Gentlemen,
Yet another Steorn Kinetica demonstration effect (YASKIDEE) or what?
The Steorn's mistake was about the interpretation of what happened, which was conventional. They were wrong about what they infered from the measurement. But there was nothing hidden.
With Yildiz, a conventional explanation can be clearly discarded if the motor runs according to the claim (permanent magnets only). So either there is a real new phenomena or it is a fraud.
Quote
I have the feebleness to 'believe' that Muammer Yildiz is into something (and
also, BTW, that the Steorn all-magnets device had been working (in Dublin)).
...
We know very little about the Yildiz motor. Nevertheless some signs could be considered as fraud. For example it would be easy to rotate an alternator and to easily measure its real output power. Instead Yildiz is using a fan. Its load is alleged to represents hundreds watts while 10 watts can rotate such a fan. Unlike hundreds watts, 10 W only or less is still compatible with a hidden battery. So the experimental evidence is not yet given.
All - FYI,
"tinkering such a nice device with an hammer to start it does not bode well concerning the credibility of the operator"
The above is a reasonable concern already voice by others.
However, be it known that his actions for starting and stopping the larger motor are visibly and audibly consistent with forcing a bi-stable magnetic latch over the balance point.
There isn't enough proof of claims for me but I think his methods of stopping and starting are just an indication of limited design development & funding.
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.04.13, 13:00:10
All - FYI,
"tinkering such a nice device with an hammer to start it does not bode well concerning the credibility of the operator"
The above is a reasonable concern already voice by others.
However, be it known that his actions for starting and stopping the larger motor are visibly and audibly consistent with forcing a bi-stable magnetic latch over the balance point.
There isn't enough proof of claims for me but I think his methods of stopping and starting are just an indication of limited design development & funding.
WW -- I appreciate your efforts to look into issues such as this.
May I ask two questions:
1. What do you mean by " forcing a bi-stable magnetic latch over the balance point"?
2. What do you (and others) think of PERENDEV motor concepts?
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2013.04.13, 13:56:29
WW -- I appreciate your efforts to look into issues such as this.
May I ask two questions:
1. What do you mean by " forcing a bi-stable magnetic latch over the balance point"?
2. What do you (and others) think of PERENDEV motor concepts?
The attached PDF shows an example of a bi-stable magnetic latch controlled by electromagnetic impulses into an 'open' and 'close' coil. I think Yildiz is whacking the moving part into and out of position. Each position establishes a different path for the magnetic connection and holds where that connection is made.
I'm convinced that Perendev borrowed 'his' concepts from several other inventors and there isn't enough evidence that the concept would work.
Provided that it's not a fraud, from what I have seen of the motor where magnets are shifted from a circle to the next one, maybe we have a helical magnetic flux. The conservative flux being looped in an unconventional way, something new could happen for magnets following the magnetic path. Even if this is in no way related to Yildiz motor, it could be interesting to study the principle.
The hammer to to release the break; like having a car in park on a hill and releasing the parking brake before taking it out of park, the pin will be stuck, and require some force to disengage.
It's interesting that the motor is 100% raring to go at any point, and only a break engaged stops it. I thought it was similar to a windup device or a motion to get the thing to go, but really it's to overcome the force it's applying since it's already ready to go.
Thank you for the reply, WW, and for comments Ex and D3. You surprised me Ex.
This from Sterling's latest blog (from yesterday) shows some dis-enchantment with Yildiz it appears, and some frankness by Sterling:
QuoteSpeaking of Mr. Yildiz and the Top 5, his wight [sic?] there is diminishing for the following reasons:
He's not as close as I had thought to being ready for production.
It is difficult to work with him; and this is one of the primary reasons he still is not in the market though he's had this technology developed well enough to bring in funding for at least 15 years. There is some good talent coming forward to help him now, which will take the edge off of this weakness; but it is still a significant drawback.
The motor will not be easy to replicate. Too many magnets, too easy to not get them just right.
Though it could be good for an open license, the difficulty of replicating will make it less easy to have it go viral.
I'm going to be working on a list of reasons why I think his motor is legitimate. However, it takes a lot more than just a working technology for the technology to be successful in going to market.
Today is the last day of the expo, and again today, no video of Yildiz's machines at the expo, although we had that live feed earlier in the week:
http://www.justin.tv/pesnetwork#/w/5340699200/3
Quote from: PhysicsProf on 2013.04.14, 11:55:26
Thank you for the reply, WW, and for comments Ex and D3. You surprised me Ex.
This from Sterling's latest blog (from yesterday) shows some dis-enchantment with Yildiz it appears, and some frankness by Sterling:
Today is the last day of the expo, and again today, no video of Yildiz's machines at the expo, although we had that live feed earlier in the week:
http://www.justin.tv/pesnetwork#/w/5340699200/3
It would seem we have another 6 18
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2013.04.13, 09:34:51
The Steorn's mistake was about the interpretation of what happened, which was conventional. They were wrong about what they infered from the measurement. But there was nothing hidden.
I did not follow Steorn's Orbo closely and do not know what you mean by that.
What was the error in their interpretation of their results?
@verpies
I have replied elsewhere because it's not related to Yildiz.
See: http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2061.msg30767;topicseen#msg30767 (http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2061.msg30767;topicseen#msg30767)
@PhysicsProf
QuoteHe's not as close as I had thought to being ready for production.
It is difficult to work with him; and this is one of the primary reasons he still is not in the market though he's had this technology developed well enough to bring in funding for at least 15 years. There is some good talent coming forward to help him now, which will take the edge off of this weakness; but it is still a significant drawback.
The motor will not be easy to replicate. Too many magnets, too easy to not get them just right.
I have had a little insight into the investment side of technology in the last few years and it is a quagmire to say the least.
Normally the technology is presented to investors and then they fund the technology for a portion of the company shares and future profits. Sounds fair enough however what is not mentioned is the fact that not one dime will change hands until they can be guaranteed the future profits are massive proportional to their small input. Thus were left with the question, how can anyone trust persons who really have no interest in helping anyone other than themselves?... I submit we cannot.
I find it comical that so many people have said in the past that this investor is a good person and he cares about our future and he has a great deal of money. Well if they claim to care so much then why have they not invested one dime towards grass roots research which may help people?. The fact is they are not "good" nor "giving" people they are people who expect a massive return on their investment at any cost, nothing more. We can be sure that as soon as there is no expectation of a large profit they will be leave with their supposed good intentions as fast as they appeared.
As such I think Yildiz holding back control when confronted by a bunch of Aholes waving dollar bills is not a sign of weakness but strength, only a weak mind would sell their soul for profit only to see their dreams shelved because the investors sold the farm. These people have made their true intent perfectly clear not by what they say but by their actions. I have a bad attitude in this respect and generally tell them to kiss my ass and get lost , I would rather give my technology away that have to deal with their BS. If they cannot fund the research then they will not get a chance to invest in anything because they cannot be trusted to do the right thing when it matters the most.
In the last few years I have been involved in quite a few projects which required an NDA and this was fine because I really had no intent to be employed by any corporation no matter what the final result. This makes life very easy for me because I can help and feel good about it while still retaining my integrity. It's kind of comical that most of these bean counters have no real grasp on the concept of integrity as it has nothing to do with power or money but making the right choices and doing the right thing. Securing a technology then grossly overcharging so few can afford it is not what I would call doing the right thing.
AC
Quote from: allcanadian on 2013.04.16, 18:46:37
@PhysicsProf
I have had a little insight into the investment side of technology in the last few years and it is a quagmire to say the least.
Normally the technology is presented to investors and then they fund the technology for a portion of the company shares and future profits. Sounds fair enough however what is not mentioned is the fact that not one dime will change hands until they can be guaranteed the future profits are massive proportional to their small input. Thus were left with the question, how can anyone trust persons who really have no interest in helping anyone other than themselves?... I submit we cannot.
I find it comical that so many people have said in the past that this investor is a good person and he cares about our future and he has a great deal of money. Well if they claim to care so much then why have they not invested one dime towards grass roots research which may help people?. The fact is they are not "good" nor "giving" people they are people who expect a massive return on their investment at any cost, nothing more. We can be sure that as soon as there is no expectation of a large profit they will be leave with their supposed good intentions as fast as they appeared.
As such I think Yildiz holding back control when confronted by a bunch of Aholes waving dollar bills is not a sign of weakness but strength, only a weak mind would sell their soul for profit only to see their dreams shelved because the investors sold the farm. These people have made their true intent perfectly clear not by what they say but by their actions. I have a bad attitude in this respect and generally tell them to kiss my ass and get lost , I would rather give my technology away that have to deal with their BS. If they cannot fund the research then they will not get a chance to invest in anything because they cannot be trusted to do the right thing when it matters the most.
In the last few years I have been involved in quite a few projects which required an NDA and this was fine because I really had no intent to be employed by any corporation no matter what the final result. This makes life very easy for me because I can help and feel good about it while still retaining my integrity. It's kind of comical that most of these bean counters have no real grasp on the concept of integrity as it has nothing to do with power or money but making the right choices and doing the right thing. Securing a technology then grossly overcharging so few can afford it is not what I would call doing the right thing.
AC
Well said, AC.
However, as regards NDA's, I'm very leery from having been burned in the past -- and will only sign if it is for a specified SHORT time, not forever.
@PhysicsProf
QuoteHowever, as regards NDA's, I'm very leery from having been burned in the past -- and will only sign if it is for a specified SHORT time, not forever.
For sure and it can get a little out of hand unless the ground rules are laid out prior. My thoughts are simple, it is an agreement between friends however if a friend starts dictating terms or overreaching the bounds of the common understanding then obviously they are not a real friend. At this point I would make it clear that the relationship is over and there will be no future correspondence. It may be an NDA but it does not stipulate that I am ever required to speak with them or conduct any business with them again. The moment there is a lack of mutual respect and consideration it ends because life is too short for anything less.
Personally I find it mind boggling that anyone would even get involved with someone they did not consider a friend, why would we? then they can say well it's just business to justify their actions at which time I would point out that it isn't anymore... it's over,lol.
AC
Well the yildiz flunk must have been bad.Look what Stirling has draged out of the mud now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r7Lr-KaN58k
Im off to buy an electric boat motor-overunity has been discovered.
My today reply to the S Allan's article (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Article:_35%2B_Reasons_Why_I_Think_Yildiz'_Magnet_Motor_Really_Works) "35+ Reasons Why I Think Yildiz' Magnet Motor Really Works":
35+ reasons discarded:
- "heat": the power for rotating the fan is weak, and the aluminium block is a good heat conductor that quickly dissipates the heat energy, so there is no significant temperature difference.
- "Jorge Duarte" faith: he says "I 'know' this works" while he doesn't know why and he didn't duplicate the device. Where are the data of the alleged "240 W" output power while obviously some watts only are needed to rotate such a fan with thin blades oriented almost in the same plane as the rotation? He is more a witness than a scientific investigator.
- "Confidence in Muammer Yildiz": not a "reason" but a feeling. A feeling is often misleading.
- "Other Personnel References:" not "reasons" but opinions about opinions of others
- "The start/stop performance of the motor is consistent with an all-magnet motor": as we have no experience about "all-magnet motors" for the reason that not one alleged PMM has been confirmed, this statement is a pure non sense.
- "RPM Data not consistent with electric motor": the not constant speed considered as the sign of a not electrical powered motor, or the question of noise, are a pure wishful thinking, a vague interpretation not even disputable. Electrical motors can have indeed speed or noise variations as observed, for miscellaneous reasons.
- "Other claims to all-magnet motors": it's not the number of claims of absurd things that would make a reason for one of them to be real!
- "The movement of the smaller motor is consistent with an all-magnet motor": already treated. As we have no experience about "all-magnet motors" for the reason that not one alleged PMM has been confirmed, this statement is a pure non sense.
- "There are a number of evidences that show that there are many magnets inside": nobody denies this point, but this point is irrelevant. The presence of permanent magnets don't prove that they are the only cause of the rotation. They are plenty of conventional motors that have permanent magnets.
- "Spiritual/psychic/intuitive witnesses": already treated. Not "reasons" but feelings. A feeling is often misleading.
Not one of the given arguments is a "reason" to believe that the Yildiz's motor works. I don't say that it doesn't work, I say that the alleged reasons are by far insufficient to show evidence. They are related to opinions and to biased interpretations. Only a successful duplication by an independent third party, or at least a serious test bench, would be a "reason" to begin to believe that it works.
@Exn
Good points and as far as I know feelings are not considered an operating parameter. I find one aspect here very interesting and for those who have experimented with all magnet motors they will understand my point.
When experimenting with magnet motors one thing becomes very obvious from the start. Singular fields will cog immediately and come to rest and if we use more magnets the field has simply been made larger and it will always come to rest within one turn unless there is a great deal of inertia in the system. This is because the energy to set it in motion allows it to pass the one turn point but little more.
Now we have a problem, if a magnet motor was to make any more that two full rotations by simply releasing a static braking mechanism which constitutes a position of rest then a force must be present which causes it to rotate more than it should. Now if there is no other conventional motive force such as an electrical system adding energy to the system as a whole and it makes more than a few revolutions then something must have caused this.
The physics involved are simple moments of inertia and moments of force and are easy to understand. In which case the fact that the motor in question even makes more than a few revolutions is miraculous if no other energy source is present. Physics can be funny this way and people can start making things more complicated than they need to be, forget about the fan loading the motor because it is irrelevant relative to the fact that the motor spins for more than a few seconds.
I have experimented with many magnet motors and this one has me stumped because I cannot even begin to form a premise for it's operation. Normally I see something and think ok that could theoretically have some merit but not with this motor. I'm not saying It works as claimed but I do find this example very interesting, more so than any other I have seen.
AC
Quote from: allcanadian on 2013.04.18, 17:44:30
...
When experimenting with magnet motors one thing becomes very obvious from the start. Singular fields will cog immediately and come to rest and if we use more magnets the field has simply been made larger and it will always come to rest within one turn unless there is a great deal of inertia in the system. This is because the energy to set it in motion allows it to pass the one turn point but little more.
...
I observed the same thing when I was playing with a SMOT. You point here the weakness of the concept of PMM which follows from what academic science says.
At the start point, our permanent magnets have a magnetic potential energy due to their position. The system begins to rotate, the energy being drawn by decreasing the potential energy from the magnets. When the magnets are at the lowest magnetic potential, the system can continue a bit longer due to the mechanical inertia, regaining a little magnetic potential, but they are attracted back and finally they remain blocked in the "sticky" point which is the position of lowest magnetic potential energy. They can sometimes make a supplementary turn if they have been given some supplementary kinetic energy at the start but they end in the sticky point the next turn.
Of course the idea becomes here to change the configuration somewhere and at some moment for the magnets to retrieve their start point. Unfortunately, and it's a general law for potential energy, the change of potential energy from point A to point B doesn't depend on the path. If B is at a lower potential than A, you will need as much energy for going from B to A as you gained from A to B, whatever the path and the changes along the path, only the start and end points are to be taken into account. And if you have not the potential difference, you have no cause for the motor to rotate. Therefore you have finally no cause for going from A to A (same potential) whatever the path through any potential: i.e. the system can't restart itself.
A permanent motor can't work according to the physics laws, consequently if it works, either physics laws are broken, or their is an unknown energy source. It's vain to search for conventional explanations for the Yildiz motor by using the academic knowledge of magnetism. If we suppose that the Yildiz motor works, then we have to be imaginative and search for exotic explanations. One of them could be that some magnetic flux topology could lead to a non conservative magnetic field. There are also the hidden energy sources that are invoked each time OU is claimed (ZPE, cold fusion and so on...).
@AC
I see what you mean.I would have thought that the rotation would have stoped after one maybe two rotation's,due to the small push he gave it at the start.It dose seem to rotate a little longer than it should.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S46QPophJbo&feature=youtu.be
@Exn
QuoteA permanent motor can't work according to the physics laws, consequently if it works, either physics laws are broken, or their is an unknown energy source. It's vain to search for conventional explanations for the Yildiz motor by using the academic knowledge of magnetism. If we suppose that the Yildiz motor works, then we have to be imaginative and search for exotic explanations. One of them could be that some magnetic flux topology could lead to a non conservative magnetic field. There are also the hidden energy sources that are invoked each time OU is claimed (ZPE, cold fusion and so on...).
I would agree, I have built many apparatus relating to PMM and magnetic bearings over the years and really enjoyed it and consider it time well spent. Mind you I was never convinced I would ever succeed at a PMM and I didn't but I learned many things along the way. I guess I'm just old school because I don't think there is any simulator that can replace hands on experience. When a person can see it and feel it then measure it the magnitude of the problem becomes painfully obvious.
I don't know what to think of this motor, 99% thinks there is not a hope in hell this can work but there is always that other 1% telling me ... I just don't know, lol.
Howard Johnson as in the Howard Johnson motor stated that his motor concentrated the magnetic field lines into narrow bands which were then forced to jump from one position to the next due to the bias of the fields present. Now if these field lines snapped into the next position sooner than one would expect due to the field bias and produced a process of continuous instability then maybe a small unidirectional force could evolve.
When I built the Wesley Gary motor I noticed a similar effect in that at a certain position the field made a definite jump from one armature to the next. That is the field did not tend to diffuse into both armatures but preferred one or the other, all or nothing. Of course I never got it working as Mr.Gary claimed however the field properties were very different than many of the other devices I had experimented with.
It's interesting stuff, I'm not totally convinced of anything but it is interesting.
AC
exnihiloest said
I observed the same thing when I was playing with a SMOT. You point here the weakness of the concept of PMM which follows from what academic science says.
At the start point, our permanent magnets have a magnetic potential energy due to their position. The system begins to rotate, the energy being drawn by decreasing the potential energy from the magnets. When the magnets are at the lowest magnetic potential, the system can continue a bit longer due to the mechanical inertia, regaining a little magnetic potential, but they are attracted back and finally they remain blocked in the "sticky" point which is the position of lowest magnetic potential energy...
not correct what you said, because the "sticky" point is at the HIGHEST magnetic potential energy, that's where the strongest magnetic flux exists, and the strongest attraction, so the integral of B*H increases over the flux volume. Remember, with magnets and ferromagnetic materials things are counter-intuitive, they always tend towards increasing their total energy, not decreasing it.
Did you go see the motor in Geneva?
EM
My reply about the S Allan's article has been sliced and denaturated by comments from the anonymus moderator of the S Allan's site. It's the first time that I observe such a begining of censorship.
I wrote another reply (in blue the old text, in red the moderator's comments, in marroon the new reply):
35+ reasons discarded (reply to comments):
- "Confidence in Muammer Yildiz": not a "reason" but a feeling. A feeling is often misleading.
[Come off it....Business is done everyday based on feelings and judgements]
Non sequitur.
Business is not science. Business is also lies.
Many things are based on feelings and judgements, especially things where the arbitrary makes the law, not the truth. Science is beyond a question of viewpoints, it's a question of "reason" therefore of facts, observation and logic. So we see that "reason" as used in the title of the article, is overrated.
- "The start/stop performance of the motor is consistent with an all-magnet motor": as we have no experience about "all-magnet motors" for the reason that not one alleged PMM has been confirmed, this statement is a pure non sense.
[In fact Sterling has had a lot of dealings with all magnet motors, so this statement is nonsense]
1) An argument of authority is not an argument.
2) If he has a magnet motor that works, he should give us the plans! And if he has not one, then he has no experience in magnet motor for the reason that there is not yet a magnet motor, a not working magnet motor being not a motor.
and so on...
If I accept the free speech, I consider that to publish a reply denaturated with inside comments by an anonymous author is an unfair method and a kind of censorship.
Please would the moderators reply in separate comments if needed.
Quote from: EMdevices on 2013.04.19, 04:34:39
...
not correct what you said, because the "sticky" point is at the HIGHEST magnetic potential energy,
...
Yes of course, it's like the gravitational potential energy, the "sticky" point is the top of the hill, the HIGHEST gravitational potential energy, where the ball remains blocked, it's not the bottom of the valley towards which it could roll...
;D ;D ;D
An interesting thing with EM's posts is that the nonsenses are in capital letters, we save time.
Quote from: allcanadian on 2013.04.19, 01:09:41
...
I guess I'm just old school because I don't think there is any simulator that can replace hands on experience. When a person can see it and feel it then measure it the magnitude of the problem becomes painfully obvious.
I agree.
Quote
I don't know what to think of this motor, 99% thinks there is not a hope in hell this can work but there is always that other 1% telling me ... I just don't know, lol.
I also really don't know, there are not enough elements to get an opinion.
Quote
Howard Johnson as in the Howard Johnson motor stated that his motor concentrated the magnetic field lines into narrow bands which were then forced to jump from one position to the next due to the bias of the fields present. Now if these field lines snapped into the next position sooner than one would expect due to the field bias and produced a process of continuous instability then maybe a small unidirectional force could evolve.
When I built the Wesley Gary motor I noticed a similar effect in that at a certain position the field made a definite jump from one armature to the next. That is the field did not tend to diffuse into both armatures but preferred one or the other, all or nothing. Of course I never got it working as Mr.Gary claimed however the field properties were very different than many of the other devices I had experimented with.
It's interesting stuff, I'm not totally convinced of anything but it is interesting.
AC
I agree also. It's not convincing. What we observe is only magnets following the path where they are the more attracted. The field topology of some devices being not obvious, this can be sometimes baffling, but neither Johnson nor Gary have shown evidence that something else would happen. I don't say that the "other 1%" that you mentionned is impossible, it's a window towards the unknown that we must keep open, but we really need much stronger experimental evidences than the ones proposed until now.
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2013.04.19, 09:13:40
Yes of course, it's like the gravitational potential energy, the "sticky" point is the top of the hill, the HIGHEST gravitational potential energy, where the ball remains blocked, it's not the bottom of the valley towards which it could roll...
;D ;D ;D
yes, exactly that's why its counter intuitive. when you bring a magnet close to a ferromagnetic object, does the magnet repel? NO, it attracts. Which configuration has more magnetic energy?
1) When the magnet is close to the ferromagnetic material?
2) Or when it is away?
If you integrate the B*H quantity, you will find that there is more energy in the magnetic field for option 1, when the magnet has magnetized the ferromagnetic material and attracted itself to it, thus further increasing its own magnetic energy.
Magnetism is different in this regard. And you said the sticky point represents less magnetic energy.
That's because you're too ignorant to understand these things yet pretend to teach others and laugh like a fool. I would just shut up if I were you. You've lost enough credibility to last you a whole year.
EM
@EM
Quote
Which configuration has more energy?
1) When the magnet is close to the ferromagnetic material?
2) Or when it is away?
If you integrate the B*H quantity, you will find that there is more energy in the magnetic field for option 1, when the magnet has magnetized the ferromagnetic material and attracted itself to it, thus further increasing its own magnetic energy.
I'm not sure I'm pickin up what your layin down, Energy is Work (Force x Distance) over time so in option 2 a Force acts over a greater Distance for a longer period of time hence more Energy is available to do more work. It's hard to get around the fact that there is no energy unless there is an ability to do work and the ferromagnetic material further away will pass through the same space as the ferromagnetic material which was closer plus the space which was further away, "Nothing happens until something moves." --Albert Einstein.
As well we can throw some twisted logic at this scenario, Does the magnets magnetic field actually have energy?. If we take an iron core and a copper core placed three inches from a magnet and it's associated field then only the iron core will percieve an attractive force. In which case we could say the magnets magnetic field has no energy unless it can induce(magnetic induction) an opposite field in the material and the two fields interacting is the source of the force hence the ability to do work which is energy. If this is the case then the magnetic field has no energy in itself and the energy must be the product of the one applied field and the one induced, two fields.
AC
Quote from: EMdevices on 2013.04.20, 01:58:39
yes, exactly that's why its counter intuitive. when you bring a magnet close to a ferromagnetic object, does the magnet repel? NO, it attracts. Which configuration has more energy?
The energy in a changing
closed system is always less at the end position than at the start position.
It's a general rule in nature that all systems tend to evoluate towards a state of lower energy. This evolution is rendered possible by using the internal energy taken from the more energetical starting state.
A typical case is two distant magnets that attract one another, releasing the potential energy coming from their initial relative position.
Another typical case is two near magnets that repel one another, releasing the potential energy coming from their initial relative position.
If we had not the potential difference between the start and end point, we would have no cause for the system to change. This principle is so universal that a lagrangian is enough to describe a mechanical system evolution, without even to take into account the causal relations for the time evolution.
Quote
If you integrate the B*H quantity, you will find that there is more energy in the magnetic field for option 1, when the magnet has magnetized the ferromagnetic material and attracted itself to it, thus further increasing its own magnetic energy.
That's false. When a magnet magnetizes ferromagnetic material, it provides work to change the orientation of the magnetic domains. This magnetic polarization transforms the ferromagnetic material into a magnet that acts as any permanent magnet, attracts the first magnet, and both move towards one another, reducing their magnetic potential energy.
You didn't yet realized that the potential energy in a system of two distant attracting bodies is more than when they are nearer. Same thing for the gravitational energy of distant masses, or of potential energy of distant unlike charges.
It's the contrary for repelling bodies: there is more energy when they are near from one another than away.
Moreover it's extremely simple to calculate, the potential energy difference is the work done by the force between the start and end point, we just have to integrate F*dl.
Quote
...
That's because you're too ignorant to understand these things yet pretend to teach others and laugh like a fool.
...
Your understanding of physics is at a so low level that you are now
explaining us that there is more energy in a system after it has released its energy than before! Yes this is laughable. ;D Facing such an appalling stupidity, the only possible attitude is either to
xxxxxx xxxxxxx or to laugh of it, and I prefer the second possibility.
You really need to be teached but it's impossible. I'm not teaching you, it would be useless, you consider that you are all-wise and all-knowing, the last stage of the Dunning-Kruger symptom. I'm just correcting your inappropriate approximations, your misinformations, your mistakes and your nonsenses that you are regularly and pretentiously spreading on this forum and that could mislead other contributors.
Quote from: allcanadian on 2013.04.20, 09:28:19
@EM
...Energy is Work (Force x Distance) over time so in option 2 a Force acts over a greater Distance for a longer period of time hence more Energy is available to do more work.
...
O0
Quote
Does the magnets magnetic field actually have energy?
There is energy in a field. For a magnetic field, we must integrate over the volume of all materials and space, the energy density 1/2*B
2/µ or 1/2*H
2*µ. Outside simple cases where the field is rather constant or with an easy and known gradient inside a volume of material of constant permeability, it's almost impossible to calculate because we know neither the exact field amplitude nor the exact permeability at any position in space and inside materials.
exnihiloest said:
QuoteThe energy in a changing closed system is always less at the end position than at the start position.
In a closed system the energy is the same, before and after. You surprise me, are you becoming corrupted by the OU community? ;D
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2013.04.20, 13:34:20
O0
There is energy in a field. For a magnetic field, we must integrate over the volume of all materials and space, the energy density 1/2*B2/µ or 1/2*H2*µ.
Now you got it, I hope that didn't take you too long to look up on the Internet. ;)
QuoteYour understanding of physics is at a so low level that you are now explaining us that there is more energy in a system after it has released its energy than before! Yes this is laughable.
I'm taking about the magnetic field not the "system". That's your erroneous assumption.
allcanadian,
Magnetic potential energy has a specific meaning in electromagnetism, in a particular configuration we can determine it by integration over the relevant volume. So when a magnet attracts to another, or to a ferromagnetic material, kinetic energy is delivered (if no force holds them back) but in addition, the magnetic potential energy has increased because the flux has intensified upon the closer approach and the ferromagnetic material has been magnetized.
EM
EM,
Your explanation is true when speaking from the magnetohydrodynamics specialty.
Ex's explanation is true for the general case.
At least, those are my opinions because I have had this argument before with non-MHD folks who required a little special reading.
Quote from: EMdevices on 2013.04.20, 17:16:26
allcanadian,
Magnetic potential energy has a specific meaning in electromagnetism, in a particular configuration we can determine it by integration over the relevant volume. So when a magnet attracts to another, or to a ferromagnetic material, kinetic energy is delivered (if no force holds them back) but in addition, the magnetic potential energy has increased because the flux has intensified upon the closer approach and the ferromagnetic material has been magnetized.
EM
https://www.hkcm.de/forcer.php?dna=1&sort=f
It is never quite that simple as the field can be intensified by focusing it, dependent on the shape:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNtZUFhjquw
RIM :)
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.04.20, 17:39:36
EM,
Your explanation is true when speaking from the magnetohydrodynamics specialty.
Ex's explanation is true for the general case.
At least, those are my opinions because I have had this argument before with non-MHD folks who required a little special reading.
I'm talking about magneto statics, and quasi statics, and specifically about energy increase in the magnetic field energy, not a decrease.
In the general case, energy is conserved, and changes forms in a dynamic system. With magnets, we need an awareness that energy is drawn from the subatomic world.
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on 2013.04.20, 18:07:00
I'm talking about magneto statics, and quasi statics, and specifically about energy increase in the magnetic field energy, not a decrease.
In the general case, energy is conserved, and changes forms in a dynamic system. With magnets, we need an awareness that energy is drawn from the subatomic world.
EM
Yes, I understand that but remember that a classicist's view is that they are also considering the dynamics while all of the theory only deals with individual static points and all magnets are ideal magnets.
MHD folks tend to deal more with the reality of things such as, no magnet is 100% magnetized - there are always more magnetic domains to be flipped<Edit until saturation, of course> - the magnetic field strength of two magnets in attraction is more than the sum of both - the magnetic field strength of two magnets in repulsion is less than the sum of both.
Any of the above statements will set a fire in the belly of a classicist even when the simplest of experiments will show them to be true.
Quote from: EMdevices on 2013.04.20, 17:16:26
...
In a closed system the energy is the same, before and after. You surprise me, are you becoming corrupted by the OU community? ;D
...
You surprise me, is it the skeptics community which encouraged you to finally make a relevant remark?
(I will use strikethrough for "closed" ).
Quote from: EMdevices on 2013.04.20, 18:07:00
...
In the general case, energy is conserved,
...
You mean, in a closed system?
Until now, in any particular case also.
If you have a particular case without energy conservation, show it us, I'm sure you will attract a considerable attention from everybody.
Quote from: exnihiloest on 2013.04.20, 20:55:46
You mean, in a closed system?
Until now, in any particular case also.
It appears you are confused, asking about a closed system, than saying "in any particular case also". So here's a direct question:
Do you need a "closed" system for energy conservation? Yes or No?
EM
Here's what I'm wondering about this motor.
What if he found a way to make it run based on the fact that permanent magnets can be cycled back and forth and weakened magnetically? Thus dissipating their energy. So, what configuration can accomplish this?
EM
Quote from: EMdevices on 2013.04.20, 22:08:16
Here's what I'm wondering about this motor.
What if he found a way to make it run based on the fact that permanent magnets can be cycled back and forth and weakened magnetically? Thus dissipating their energy. So, what configuration can accomplish this?
EM
For any method I can think of, the configuration would require a lot of work.
@Em
QuoteHere's what I'm wondering about this motor.
What if he found a way to make it run based on the fact that permanent magnets can be cycled back and forth and weakened magnetically? Thus dissipating their energy. So, what configuration can accomplish this?
I like where your going with that thought and I think we all understand that "normal" cannot apply here if the device works. I think the laws of physics still apply however he would have to be doing something very different that we have never considered and it's probably simple.
I believe I read a patent or an article where they proposed this very thing and claimed energy could be stored then released at a later time from a permanent magnet not unlike a battery. The losses would probably be high but it is very interesting to consider the possible mechanisms of how this process this could take place.
Any thoughts on this?
I have also read some articles on degaussing where an alternating field decreasing in amplitude will remove a remnant magnetic field. Now if the actual material could resonate at near same frequency as the demagnetizing field it could theoretically form a parametric relationship and act similar to an induction generator through the phase differential. Individual domains sequentially collapsing in time with the demagnetizing field. It is sheer speculation but interesting to consider a possible mechanism.
AC
When you post a comment at PESN (http://peswiki.com/index.php/Article:_35%2B_Reasons_Why_I_Think_Yildiz'_Magnet_Motor_Really_Works) and they particularly don't agree your comment (the more relevant, the more they fear), they slice it now by adding their own remarks inside your comment instead of replying apart. This is an unfair method, falsifying what you say, and creating an unbalance between we and them because we, readers, can't insert comments inside their articles.
Moreover my following reply to their comments has been censored. Only the last sentence has been published, and the reader is not informed that the text has been cut.
Although almost all the matter at PESN is highly disputable, I appreciated it because the skeptics views were also tolerated and this is rare in the "OU community". This time is over. PESN is now an place for supporting the scammers or the cranks, without possible contradictory viewpoints or with contradictory viewpoints devastated by texts added inside.
Here is what has been censored, which were my comments to the censor's comments (in blue, my first comments; in red, the censor's inside comments; in maroon my censored second reply, only the last sentence being published):
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35+ reasons discarded (reply to comments):
- "Confidence in Muammer Yildiz": not a "reason" but a feeling. A feeling is often misleading.
[Come off it....Business is done everyday based on feelings and judgements]
Non sequitur.
Business is not science. Business is also lies.
Many things are based on feelings and judgements, especially things where the arbitrary makes the law, not the truth. Science is beyond a question of viewpoints, it's a question of "reason" therefore of facts, observation and logic. So we see that "reason" as used in the title of the article, is overrated.
- "The start/stop performance of the motor is consistent with an all-magnet motor": as we have no experience about "all-magnet motors" for the reason that not one alleged PMM has been confirmed, this statement is a pure non sense.
[In fact Sterling has had a lot of dealings with all magnet motors, so this statement is nonsense]
1) An argument of authority is not an argument.
2) If he has a magnet motor that works, he should give us the plans! And if he has not one, then he has no experience in magnet motor for the reason that there is not yet a magnet motor, a not working magnet motor being not a motor.
and so on...
If I accept the free speech, I consider that to publish a reply denatured with inside comments by an anonymous author is an unfair method and a kind of censorship.
Please would the moderators reply in separate comments if needed.
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Quote from: EMdevices on 2013.04.20, 21:37:47
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Do you need a "closed" system for energy conservation? Yes or No?
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There is no binary answer to unprecise questions.
When you said "in the general case, energy is conserved", the general case of closed systems for which this statement is true, applies also to any particular case of closed systems.
And if you meant by "general case", the general case of not closed systems, then the energy conservation inside the system generally doesn't apply.
Found on ou.com, relative to the Yildiz question:
"Sterling's responses and general tone lately have made me think that he actually has cynically "gone over to the dark side" and is more or less actively and consciously supporting the scammers and false claimants that bring traffic (and revenue) to his webmaze"
The rising of the censorship is a point that supports this view. The skeptic position is an obstacle for the business, it removes the wonderfulness that was attracting the gullible visitors (who belong to the majority of humans, those wanting believe in an eternal life or in gifts from Santa Klaus, see the success of religions and sects all over the world).
As soon as a listener has attached what they heard to feelings they cannot be brought to truth easily.
I believe T.H.Moray said it best--- What is the truth when the truth is unacceptable?.