Here's a 'Web article with an example of an Avramenko fork on the page:
http://www.rangertell.com/to_the_skeptic.htm
I've seen another site page that had an Avramenko circuit with a 30 ft long, 32 ga. wire to an Avrameko fork as a half wave bridge at the end. It powered a Radio-Shack-style xenon lamp very brightly and continuously with the whole 30' wire cool to the touch.
Cold, radiant energy is being generated as I see it. But can it be harvested as OU?
Here's J. Naudin's work from his site:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm
--Lee
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on 2013.05.24, 03:22:19
Here's a 'Web article with an example of an Avramenko fork on the page:
http://www.rangertell.com/to_the_skeptic.htm
I've seen another site page that had an Avramenko circuit with a 30 ft long, 32 ga. wire to an Avrameko fork as a half wave bridge at the end. It powered a Radio-Shack-style xenon lamp very brightly and continuously with the whole 30' wire cool to the touch.
Cold, radiant energy is being generated as I see it. But can it be harvested as OU?
Here's J. Naudin's work from his site:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm
This is a page I stumbled on as a similar aspect to this thread's subject: Namely, this system below transmits power over a single wire and adding LED stages to the output antenna can actually lower power consumption by the signal generator. Here it is...
http://pesn.com/2012/01/18/9602015_Quantum_Resonant_Gyrator_Embodies_Simple_Tesla_Technology/
Later Reedit: From another site...
http://www.overunity.com/3457/selfrunning-cold-electricity-circuit-from-dr-stiffler/dlattach/attach/106411/image//
--Lee
There is no magic or difficulty in transmitting power over one wire,i have done this in many different way's.
As far as the avramenko plug go's-well i believe it works via environmental capacitance set up by the two diode's.
I have my own mod of the AV plug,and it seems to work with twice the efficiency of the standard AV plug.
Here is an interesting experiment i tried some time ago. Not only are we using just one wire to charge a cap to light an LED,but also charging another cap to a higher voltage via a glass of water. You will also note that the high voltage is being transmitted via two open antenna's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vps4g8F2eEs
tinman,
You may wish to try suspending the fl. tube using a nice dry piece of string vs. holding it with your hand.
You should prove your theory of capacitance being the missing wire but almost all of the capacitance is where your skin makes contact with the glass tube.
There has been substantial discussion on AV plugs on this forum, alone. They do work simply because high frequency and high voltage is used. This makes capacitance a key factor it its operation.
The same can be done with no wire connections between source and load.
Quote from: tinman on 2013.08.19, 12:24:10
I have my own mod of the AV plug,and it seems to work with twice the efficiency of the standard AV plug.
Here is an interesting experiment i tried some time ago. Not only are we using just one wire to charge a cap to light an LED,but also charging another cap to a higher voltage via a glass of water. You will also note that the high voltage is being transmitted via two open antenna's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vps4g8F2eEs
I was interested enough in the video, I went looking for more information. Here's look at this, everyone...
http://members.tele2.nl/kovavla/experimentssingl.html
His theory, as I understand it up to this point, is as good as any other out there on the 'Web. Does anyone else have anything to add or have similar experience(s)?
--Lee
Quote from: tinman on 2013.08.19, 12:24:10
There is no magic or difficulty in transmitting power over one wire,i have done this in many different way's.
As far as the avramenko plug go's-well i believe it works via environmental capacitance set up by the two diode's.
Would this version be something like what you envision...?
http://technosyndicate.wordpress.com/2012/11/
I would modify the circuit by replacing the diodes with Zeners at 5 VDC ea. 12ea. to a side, oppositely wired. A long wire to charge the capacitor, and when the voltage reaches 120 VDC, at the top of the Zener string, the Zeners trip and make the light bulb blink. A little bit like a spark gap, but using low voltage.
--Lee
Quote from: WaveWatcher on 2013.08.19, 16:33:23
tinman,
You may wish to try suspending the fl. tube using a nice dry piece of string vs. holding it with your hand.
The same can be done with no wire connections between source and load.
Hi WW
I do not believe it is the high voltage at all that causes a CFL to light up,and the no wire connection says it all. A CFL will light without anything attached to it,weather that be a hand or a dry string.As CFL's light wirelessly next to an exciter tower,then it can only be the high frequency magnetic waves that excite the gases,and cause them to illuminate.
As we know,when a voltage is passed through a wire,a magnetic field also builds up around that wire,and travels with the voltage down the wire. With the one wire setup,i believe it is the magnetic field around that wire going into the CFL that lights up the gas-not the voltage in the wire. A neon as we know,will also light when in the presence of a high frequency magnetic field-reguardless of weather it has a wire connected to it or not.
So with the no wire attached setup,it can only be the magnetic field that is exciting the gases-not high voltage.
tinman,
I urge you to experiment to confirm your understanding.
Having performed those experiments, I must say my belief remains.
To my knowledge, a magnetic field, changing or not, will not ionize the gases in such lamps. Electric fields do. The gas in fluorescent and neon bulbs must be ionized before current will flow in normal circuits. Ionizing the gases to a high enough alternating potential will also cause enough excitation to cause the gas to glow with no current supplied to the bulb terminals.
I have had cases where a very high frequency changing magnetic field caused a neon to glow but when I measured for voltage on the terminals of the bulb I found that a high voltage was being induced on the lamp wires.
Don't mind me. I was asked to leave a hairpin demonstration because I waited until the speaker turned his device off and then keyed my handy-talkie and lit his one-wire bulbs from the back of the room. My radio was transmitting on 2-meters with less than 5 Watts of carrier. The bulb at the end of the wire in air and the one in the bowl of water both lit nicely >:-)
To me, there is no mystery in these devices.
Very good WaveWatcher!
When one has the knowledge and understanding
of the various ways to produce Radio Frequency
Energy (Spark Gaps, Vacuum Tubes, Semiconductor
Devices, etc.) and the characteristics of Transmission
Lines and Antennae, then there is no Mystery for a
certainty. ???
Your impromptu excitation of the demonstration with
a Handie Talkie should have been welcomed by all
concerned as further evidence of how these things
work. C.C
Quote from: Dumped on 2013.08.21, 20:10:24
Your impromptu excitation of the demonstration with
a Handie Talkie should have been welcomed by all
concerned as further evidence of how these things
work. C.C
Thanks but I think everyone in the audience and certainly the presenter were upset. It was like I was speaking blasphemy against Tesla.
I only did it because while the hairpin circuit was running it was swamping the entire 2-meter HAM band with hash, pops and whistles. All it was was about a 2kW very broadband jamming device. When one of them asked me if I've ever seen a light bulb light while connected to one wire I said yes. Hams use a similar method to tune and troubleshoot wire antennae only they use an incandescent bulb.
They all finally agreed that I should leave. It wasn't a problem after I saw they didn't know what they were talking about.
Total of six hours of driving that day just to be thrown out.
It was a good day O0
The problem I see in all of this is that I believe the original claims are valid but all the folks I've seen to-date saying they've duplicated it are full of hash, pops and whistles ;)
QuoteThe problem I see in all of this is that I believe the original claims are valid but all the folks I've seen to-date saying they've duplicated it are full of hash, pops and whistles Wink
LOL.
@tinman,
Your experience in your posted Reply #7 points out an answer to a question I asked myself: Do you need high power to reach long distances with a magnet field? Evidently not.
I raised the question in my mind in conjunction with an upcoming and foreseeable necessity for the use of a Lakhovsky radiating coil by me. I started a thread involving Lakhovsky MWO's on this forum.
--Lee
WW
Please explain to me the difference between an electric field,and a magnetic field?.
As far as im aware,there can be no electric field without there being a magnetic field. But we can how ever ,have a magnetic field without there being an electric field,or should i say-a yet to be discovered electric field.
Some call it an electric field,but it is also an electromagnetic field-so we cannot seperate the two.
I still believe that a high frequency magnetic field is what is causing the gas to illuminate,via high speed particle collisions within certain gases.
If there was some way to generate that kind of frequency with perminant magnet's,then i would carry out the test.But this would require some very high rotor speed's-infact,im not even sure it would be possable-for me anyway. But i will do some test on my tower,and see how low i can drop the frequency down to light up a neon wirelessly,without any contact on the neon in any way.Then i will calculate what kind of rpm we are looking for,with a rotor full of magnet's. I suspect it will be very high though.
My following descriptions of fields will use the term 'field lines'. Be it understood that these lines do not actually exist. They are just a way of expressing differences and variations of density, height, etc., like height/altitude lines on a topographic map.
An electric field exists with or without electric current. A static electric field exists between any two points of electric charge, be it the static electric charge between your hand and the doorknob you are about to grab or the two terminals of a battery. 'Static' generally means 'not changing or no current flowing'.
The only difference between static electricity and 'electricity' is whether current is flowing or not.
The above electric fields exist before and during current flow or current would never flow.
Magnetic fields only occur when there is current flow - or - electron(charge) motion. Such is believed the cause of a static magnetic field related to a permanent magnet. Most of the electron motion is aligned and going the same way so each of their tiny magnetic fields sum to what you perceive emanating from the magnet. You can't measure these small currents because it isn't currently possible to measure the current that which is an electron in orbit around the atom's nucleus. At least, not with common equipment.
So, all electric & magnetic fields are actually each part of an electromagnetic field where there is current flow. I will go as far to say that a static electric field would not fit under 'electromagnetic'.
Electric and magnetic are opposite sides of the same coin. Magnetic can't exist without the electric. (Common explanation>Electric can and does exist without magnetic because magnetic is relative to motion.) My belief is that neither can exist without the other. The only reason we do see electric fields without magnetic fields is because there is no relative motion between us and the moving charge. We are moving together.
The difficult fact is that there is no reality in anything being at rest from all reference points.
I'll break that thought as it is the edge of the proverbial rabbit hole.
Think of it using this analogy:
Static electric is a boat having the potential to move but setting still on a calm lake. Magnetic is the wake left by that same boat when it is moving. The question not answered easily is what is the electromagnetic equivalent of the lake water in that analogy?
I think the current trend is to say the lake water is dark matter/energy and everything is floating in that. Of course, dark matter/energy wind up just being the fudge factor to make the current math come out right. They would never admit that aether is just as good an answer.
Wiki has good explanations of both with easily understood graphics. I'm a picture guy, myself. As long as it has pictures I can understand it O0
@wavewatcher
QuoteStatic electric is a boat having the potential to move but setting still on a calm lake. Magnetic is the wake left by that same boat when it is moving. The question not answered easily is what is the electromagnetic equivalent of the lake water in that analogy?
It may be that it is completely the opposite, the supposed static electric is oscillating at an incredible rate not unlike a lake covered in waves however the average height and frequency gives the appearance of a lack of motion relative to our boat. When the boat moves the wake from it interacts with the waves from the lake producing an interference pattern or a region of calm water. Now if we should ask your question "what is the electromagnetic equivalent of the lake water" we might have our answer. The electromagnetic equivalent is no different than the mechanical equivalent and we are simply dealing with EM waves interacting with other EM waves.
Few have considered that if the normal state of the universe is chaos or motion then one wave could interfere with another producing a region of calm and this region might appear to have substance relative to the chaos around it. In which case we would have it all backwards and should refer to the rules of induction. The transfer of energy does not relate to a high potential nor a low potential only to the magnitude of "change" in which case something becoming nothing(wave cancellation) is equivalent to nothing becoming something(wave summation). Now we could ask the question are the primary fields Electric, Magnetic and Gravic "something" or a lack of "something" ?.
AC
AC,
I can't say anyone has definite proof of anything in electromagnetics. All we know is both appear to be opposite sides of the same coin. I know of no one able to prove beyond any doubt that one creates the other or both are truly opposite sides of the same coin.
I agree all is spin and frequency, both results of wave interference. There are no little balls we can label atomic particles. What is interesting is that they are indeed wavelets but many have mass. How a wavelet has mass is the part were no reasonable answer exists. None that I've seen, anyway.
@Wavewatcher
QuoteI can't say anyone has definite proof of anything in electromagnetics. All we know is both appear to be opposite sides of the same coin. I know of no one able to prove beyond any doubt that one creates the other or both are truly opposite sides of the same coin.
We have come a long way in the last 100 years however I believe we still have a very long way to go. Maybe our great great grandchildren will look back on us in the same way we look at the early settlers. Life was hard but there was always a sense of purpose and adventure, maybe we should be grateful all is not know and that there is still a sense of mystery concerning the known universe.
Interesting times indeed.
AC
Quote from: allcanadian on 2013.08.25, 22:42:49
@Wavewatcher
We have come a long way in the last 100 years however I believe we still have a very long way to go. Maybe our great great grandchildren will look back on us in the same way we look at the early settlers. Life was hard but there was always a sense of purpose and adventure, maybe we should be grateful all is not know and that there is still a sense of mystery concerning the known universe.
Interesting times indeed.
AC
A really good philosophy to live by. I had immigrant ancestors, whom I'm confident did the best they could with their lives; and I'm
very confident their sense of purpose to survive so that their children and descendants could to the same was strong in their minds.
The ongoing discussion above in electromagnetic physics is very interesting to read. New information I've never seen before is giving me pause to try and reflect on what I've read up 'til now. I'm fine on basic hardware wiring and long wire ambient energy collection schemes are my
forte'.
--Lee
...to a transformer, to a Avramenko plug/fork, to finally add diode cells in series to see if power consumption falls in so doing...
I'll try and draw an ascii font schematic:
____
)|||
)|||
)||| ________---->|---+
)|||( | |
)|||( | --- ...and so on, with the same cell schematic immediately to the left, in series.
120 VAC )|||( 12 VAC | ---
)|||( | |
)|||( |---->|---+
)|||(
)|||(__________ NC
)|||
)|||
____)|||
The symbols, drawn in order from left to right are: Wall power---120VAC--- to a step-down transformer, one of end of the secondary being connected to two diodes wired in the same direction, and those are wired to a non-polarized capacitor on their right. More such cells can be added. The other side of the secondary is not connected. It's important that the circuit be ungrounded.
Voltage can be measured from the high side to ground (necessarily) with a VOM, and current can be measured with an Amp meter. Will power drop as more diode cells are added? Is there something I missed? Take a look at this and see. Other questions?
LATER REEDIT:
Here are other versions of the same thing in the drawing above:
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3934-high-voltage-thin-air-38.html (Posted reply #1113, Pg. 38 of the thread)
ADDITIONAL DRAWING...
http://samertje.info/QRG/QRG.png
(zoom in the picture with 4 or 5 clicks on the "Zoom In" icon and make it more clearly visible)
Later reedit:
The 'samertje' site bounces back when invoked by a mouse click. The page is offline, probably permanently.
--Lee
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on 2013.05.24, 03:22:19
Here's a 'Web article with an example of an Avramenko fork on the page:
http://www.rangertell.com/to_the_skeptic.htm
(This particular page, above, and/or the site isn't up and running any more. Just FYI; you might try another site with the same subject.)
Here's J. Naudin's work from his site:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm
(J.Naudin's .HTM page, immediately above, still loads and runs as usual.)
--Lee
I've been using AV plugs off and on the last few years, mainly for single wire transmission. However, I'm beginning to wonder that it may be the key to not killing the dipole in circuits which draw their charge from the ambient medium. This is my next project. I'll let folks know how it goes.
Bob
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on 2017.10.28, 22:38:54
Hey Bigs
Here is a vid I did using an AV plug to charge a cap for discharge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EP8M4YcGio&t=29s
Mags
Quote from: Magluvin on 2017.11.01, 08:01:18
Hey Bigs
Here is a vid I did using an AV plug to charge a cap for discharge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9EP8M4YcGio&t=29s
Mags
Mags,
What kind of component is that you have beside your cap, allowing it to discharge back into the coil in the video? I couldn't make out the name when I watched it.
Bob
Quote from: Bob Smith on 2017.11.02, 17:09:32
Mags,
What kind of component is that you have beside your cap, allowing it to discharge back into the coil in the video? I couldn't make out the name when I watched it.
Bob
Hey Bob
Its called a Sidac. This one breaks over at 250v.. The next vid uses 2 in series. So its like a 250 spark gap that wont stop conducting till the voltage comes down to a minimum.
Had found out about them from an old popular science article I believe it was, about a simple tesla coil driver circuit. Should still be available. Just wanted a low voltage break over device at the time.
SIDAC basics
The SIDAC is very similar to the ordinary DIAC. Its operation can be considered to be very nearly identical. However it is always a five-layer device and it has a low-voltage drop in latched conducting state. This makes it more like a voltage triggered TRIAC but without a gate.
Another difference between the two devices is that typically a SIDAC will have higher break-over voltage than a DIAC. Generally one will also have a higher current handling capacity level. This means that they can be directly used for switching and not just for triggering of another switching device such as a TRIAC.
The operation of the SIDAC or SYDAC is very similar to that of the DIAC. It remains in a non-conducting state until the voltage across the device rises to a level above the break-over voltage. At this point the device starts to conduct and enters a negative resistance area of the I-V characteristic.
The device will continue to conduct until the voltage falls below its rated holding current, at which point the device will return to its non-conducting state. It will then only start to conduct again once the break-over voltage is again exceeded.
http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/data/semicond/diac/sidac.php
Mags
Mags
What if you connect various parts of your circuit to good ground like water pipe ? could that change the rate of discharge ?
Thanks Mags
Very cool component! I can see where it could come in very handy.
If you can charge and discharge a cap from cold electricity impulses and use it for feedback, I could see how the possibility of coming close to a self-runner might arise.
Thanks for the llink and info -very helpful. I found this from NTE giving their SIDACs for sale:
http://www.nteinc.com/Web_pgs/SIDAC.html
Bob
Quote from: Bob Smith on 2017.11.03, 17:08:32
Thanks Mags
Very cool component! I can see where it could come in very handy.
If you can charge and discharge a cap from cold electricity impulses and use it for feedback, I could see how the possibility of coming close to a self-runner might arise.
Thanks for the llink and info -very helpful. I found this from NTE giving their SIDACs for sale:
http://www.nteinc.com/Web_pgs/SIDAC.html
Bob
Np Bob
Check out newark electronics. Should find a selection of higher voltage breakdown.
Mags
What are cold electricity impulses ?
What is cold electricity?
Quote from: TinselKoala on 2017.11.04, 02:51:21
What are cold electricity impulses ?
What is cold electricity?
You tell me and we'll both know. ;)
I can only describe what I've seen it do.
It doesn't seem to have to be HV or HF. It seems to treat large resistors like diodes, and diodes like resistors.
And as it charges capacitors, they get cooler.
But honestly, I think this component Mags has shown us might be good for any kind of feedback system as he has demonstrated.
I know I brought up the cold electricity thing, and you have every right to ask me to clarify my terms, TK. I'd prefer to stay focused on the integrity of this thread and on the AV plug, and what works well with it.
Bob
Quote from: Bob Smith on 2017.11.04, 23:46:38
You tell me and we'll both know. ;)
I can only describe what I've seen it do.
It doesn't seem to have to be HV or HF. It seems to treat large resistors like diodes, and diodes like resistors.
And as it charges capacitors, they get cooler.
But honestly, I think this component Mags has shown us might be good for any kind of feedback system as he has demonstrated.
I know I brought up the cold electricity thing, and you have every right to ask me to clarify my terms, TK. I'd prefer to stay focused on the integrity of this thread and on the AV plug, and what works well with it.
Bob
Fair enough. But at some time I'd like to see some actual demonstrations of what you describe here:
"It seems to treat large resistors like diodes, and diodes like resistors. And as it charges capacitors, they get cooler."
Well, "large resistors" are generally wirewound and have considerable inductance hence they act as low-pass filters, and diodes do have a forward voltage drop and reverse leakage and if they are "slow" may appear not to be rectifying at all if the frequency is high enough. But I don't think I've ever seen a capacitor get cooler unless a fan was blowing on it, and I do have some little experience with using capacitors in all kinds of frequency ranges and voltages. I would very much like to see a demonstration of this phenomenon.
By the way, your recent 'gotopulse' video clearly shows that the current from the inductive spike goes in the same direction as it was going before the pulse cutoff, and the voltage of the spike does reverse (as the inductor's polarity changes.)
Cold electricity is not really so cold, depends on frequency. In slow repetition at large power it will kill you. It's nothing more then opening the circuit to the Earth electromagnetic system, for example incorporating the Earth ground as a capacitor. It all started with Edison problems with DC generators and his later discovery of "Etheric force". That was first described evidence of "cold electricity" (except some "one shot" experiments like charging capacitor remotely from the Leyden jar in 1842). So "cold electricity" is just a name for RF range interaction with Earth.
Thanks for the feedback, TK and Forrest. TK, I don't know about the video you refer to. Sounds maybe like Luc Choquette (goto Luc)?
https://www.youtube.com/user/gotoluc/videos
A word about the AV plug:
The one conclusion I've come to about the AV plug is that it half rectifies an AC wave to produce unidirectional (positive) pulses. Maybe this might be its association with COP>1 circuits.
Bob
Quote from: Bob Smith on 2017.11.06, 17:45:28
Thanks for the feedback, TK and Forrest. TK, I don't know about the video you refer to. Sounds maybe like Luc Choquette (goto Luc)?
https://www.youtube.com/user/gotoluc/videos
A word about the AV plug:
The one conclusion I've come to about the AV plug is that it half rectifies an AC wave to produce unidirectional (positive) pulses. Maybe this might be its association with COP>1 circuits.
Bob
The av plug is a full wave rectifier. Just because it only has 2 diodes doesnt mean it is only a half wave rectifier
Like the output of a 12v out transformer secondary, it needs 4 diodes for full wave rectification. But if it were a center tapped 24v out, then we only need 2 diodes to get full wave rectification into the cap..
Mags
Thanks for that clarification, Mags.
As a full wave rectifier, the AV plug does produce unidirectional (pos) pulses then?
Bob
Quote from: the_big_m_in_ok on 2013.05.24, 03:22:19
Here's a 'Web article with an example of an Avramenko fork on the page:
http://www.rangertell.com/to_the_skeptic.htm
I've seen another site page that had an Avramenko circuit with a 30 ft long, 32 ga. wire to an Avrameko fork as a half wave bridge at the end. It powered a Radio-Shack-style xenon lamp very brightly and continuously with the whole 30' wire cool to the touch.
Cold, radiant energy is being generated as I see it. But can it be harvested as OU?
Guys, just so you know: The site immediately above was taken offline and returns an error message to that effect.
To Wit... "Error 404 Page"
Looks like you'll need to look elsewhere for similar information that was actually on the original page.
Here's J. Naudin's work from his site:
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/afep012.htm
--Lee
p.s.
J. Naudin's site still loads and runs as usual.
Quote from: Bob Smith on 2017.11.07, 18:05:58
Thanks for that clarification, Mags.
As a full wave rectifier, the AV plug does produce unidirectional (pos) pulses then?
Bob
For what its worth, each phase of the input to the plug is charging the cap. Some say that there is more than just pulling electrons from 1 plate during 1 phase and pumping electrons into the other plate during the other phase of the input.
But I believe that it is 1 plate at a time being altered of the number of electrons in the plate. The secondary of the small neon transformer in my vid is most likely many many turns of thin wire. Without a load, I believe that the electrons in the wire are pulled from one end of the wire and compressed toward the other end of the wire. At peak and in this condition, this would be where each end of the wire would have opposite charge across the resistance of the wire. So this compression can do the same if there is a diode and a single plate in the air, and it can pump electrons into that plate. That would leave the windings depleted of its normal electron count and the whole winding would be positive in reference to the negatively charged plate. So that plate will only get so many electrons from the wire of which say the whole secondary winding is minuscule in mass compared to the plate and the circuit cannot pump any more electrons from the winding with the power it has to do so.
So with the full plug, 1 diode in one direction to one plate of the cap and another reverse polarity diode to the other plate of the cap, there would be more electrons to pump to the pumped plate because the other phase of the input us sucking them out of the other plate, instead of just the 1 diode and 1 plate only getting what was available in the winding itself.
Soo a larger cap takes longer to get to peak charge and is harder to get to the same peak as a smaller cap, because the winding can only pass so much current per phase.
Mags
Interesting analysis, Mags. It seems you are describing a kind of pumping action brought on by the use of the AV plug, and a gradient of potential difference that it produces within the wires.
If we look at Tesla's Appparatus for Collecting Radiant Energy (https://teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla/patents/us-patent-685957-apparatus-utilization-radiant-energy ) , can not see a similar gradient of potential difference between the plate and ground?
Perhaps the AV plug's effect as you describe actually helps us reproduce this gradient of potential difference as illustrated in the above patent (i.e., between elevated plate and ground).
Bob
Quote from: Magluvin on 2017.11.08, 04:49:23
For what its worth, each phase of the input to the plug is charging the cap. Some say that there is more than just pulling electrons from 1 plate during 1 phase and pumping electrons into the other plate during the other phase of the input.
But I believe that it is 1 plate at a time being altered of the number of electrons in the plate. The secondary of the small neon transformer in my vid is most likely many many turns of thin wire. Without a load, I believe that the electrons in the wire are pulled from one end of the wire and compressed toward the other end of the wire. At peak and in this condition, this would be where each end of the wire would have opposite charge across the resistance of the wire. So this compression can do the same if there is a diode and a single plate in the air, and it can pump electrons into that plate. That would leave the windings depleted of its normal electron count and the whole winding would be positive in reference to the negatively charged plate. So that plate will only get so many electrons from the wire of which say the whole secondary winding is minuscule in mass compared to the plate and the circuit cannot pump any more electrons from the winding with the power it has to do so.
So with the full plug, 1 diode in one direction to one plate of the cap and another reverse polarity diode to the other plate of the cap, there would be more electrons to pump to the pumped plate because the other phase of the input us sucking them out of the other plate, instead of just the 1 diode and 1 plate only getting what was available in the winding itself.
Soo a larger cap takes longer to get to peak charge and is harder to get to the same peak as a smaller cap, because the winding can only pass so much current per phase.
Mags
Now, in my vid, notice how the capacitance is applied between the other end of the HV secondary and the coils can. This gives the HV sec more reservoirs to pull and push electrons back and forth, not just the electrons in the HV sec winding itself.
So if the one end of the sec is 1 wire to a distant AV plug and the other end of the HV sec is set to earth gnd, then that can be the other path instead of just 1 wire. Basically it is still just 1 wire that would need to run the distance, and the earth gnd saves us from having to run 2 wires.
Id bet if there were a way to completely isolate the open end of the HV sec, and the transformer itself, from having a capacitive path to the cap that is after the AV plug, Id say that the cap could still take on a charge due to the compression and decompression within the HV sec winding as the winding would still have pos and neg charges at the 1 wire end and as long as it can overcome the diode barrier voltage. In that case, the shorter the 1 wire run, the more of a chance the cap can receive the charge, as the longer the 1 wire is, 'it' taking on the compression's and decompression's would be very loose and most likely would not make it to the cap alone.
Its just the way I see it.
Mags
Does the Aether's response to positive pulses produced by the AV plug have a role to play in producing a COP>1 effect?
Bob
Quote from: Bob Smith on 2017.11.16, 18:15:13
Does the Aether's response to positive pulses produced by the AV plug have a role to play in producing a COP>1 effect?
Bob
Hey Bob
Im not keen on aether, yet anyway.
I follow the ideals of electron flow and flux cutting. There are a few alternatives to this that others say are correct. Its fine by me though. I cannot dispute them just as I cannot prove what I follow in any definite manner. So what I have said here may or may not be truly correct. But Im still pretty solid on what I follow till someone can really get me to see the other ways are for sure what we should follow. Till then I find electron flow and flux cutting very logical in many cases. It just works. So far I have not seen anything else that raises my eyebrows yet, at least when it comes to explaining how the other versions are thought to work. Trying to understand those explantions brings up big questions for me each time they are presented.
So it is all just my view on the plug subject. If you find other explanations we can look at those and see if they make any more sense than how I explained it.
Mags
Thanks for the reply Mags. I'm happy to try to see this from the electron perspective as well.
There was an interesting post recently on EF about the AV plug and its role in producing a COP>1 effect. Here's the link:
http://www.energeticforum.com/306242-post177.html
Bob
Quote from: Magluvin on 2017.11.03, 06:20:03
Hey Bob
Its called a Sidac. This one breaks over at 250v.. The next vid uses 2 in series. So its like a 250 spark gap that wont stop conducting till the voltage comes down to a minimum.
Had found out about them from an old popular science article I believe it was, about a simple tesla coil driver circuit. Should still be available. Just wanted a low voltage break over device at the time.
SIDAC basics
The SIDAC is very similar to the ordinary DIAC. Its operation can be considered to be very nearly identical. However it is always a five-layer device and it has a low-voltage drop in latched conducting state. This makes it more like a voltage triggered TRIAC but without a gate.
Another difference between the two devices is that typically a SIDAC will have higher break-over voltage than a DIAC. Generally one will also have a higher current handling capacity level. This means that they can be directly used for switching and not just for triggering of another switching device such as a TRIAC.
The operation of the SIDAC or SYDAC is very similar to that of the DIAC. It remains in a non-conducting state until the voltage across the device rises to a level above the break-over voltage. At this point the device starts to conduct and enters a negative resistance area of the I-V characteristic.
The device will continue to conduct until the voltage falls below its rated holding current, at which point the device will return to its non-conducting state. It will then only start to conduct again once the break-over voltage is again exceeded.
http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/data/semicond/diac/sidac.php
Mags
Can we use a SIDAC instead of spark gap ?
Although it's a very versatile component that can act like a diode or transistor or resistor depending where is placed in a circuit
Quote from: Classic on 2023.09.07, 12:32:32
Can we use a SIDAC instead of spark gap ?
Although it's a very versatile component that can act like a diode or transistor or resistor depending where is placed in a circuit
I wish we could but seems current can be passed throught it only in pulses. If you can charge capacitor and discharge using SIDAC then we would have a solution
Thanks for reply.
It seems that a diode is necessary in every ou devices along with negative resistance obtained by may methods.
Looks like the formula is standing waves + pulse + negative resistance where the main ingredient is standing waves (real amplifier), coils act as antenna and their wires length needs to be a fraction of wave length
Quote from: Magluvin on 2017.11.03, 06:20:03
Hey Bob
Its called a Sidac. This one breaks over at 250v.. The next vid uses 2 in series. So its like a 250 spark gap that wont stop conducting till the voltage comes down to a minimum.
Had found out about them from an old popular science article I believe it was, about a simple tesla coil driver circuit. Should still be available. Just wanted a low voltage break over device at the time.
SIDAC basics
The SIDAC is very similar to the ordinary DIAC. Its operation can be considered to be very nearly identical. However it is always a five-layer device and it has a low-voltage drop in latched conducting state. This makes it more like a voltage triggered TRIAC but without a gate.
Another difference between the two devices is that typically a SIDAC will have higher break-over voltage than a DIAC. Generally one will also have a higher current handling capacity level. This means that they can be directly used for switching and not just for triggering of another switching device such as a TRIAC.
The operation of the SIDAC or SYDAC is very similar to that of the DIAC. It remains in a non-conducting state until the voltage across the device rises to a level above the break-over voltage. At this point the device starts to conduct and enters a negative resistance area of the I-V characteristic.
The device will continue to conduct until the voltage falls below its rated holding current, at which point the device will return to its non-conducting state. It will then only start to conduct again once the break-over voltage is again exceeded.
http://www.radio-electronics.com/info/data/semicond/diac/sidac.php
Mags
i wonder if a SIDAC can be used instead of electromechanical swittch and how much power will draw compared with electromechanical switch ... regarding another application for an inverter patented by Arie deGeus