I'm back (I hope). Our little grandson is doing well after his open-heart surgery, and we have returned to Missouri where my home bench is... So I'm getting back into the work.
So glad to see the progress on the McFreey device, LENR, Jeff Cook (not sure I understand what that is all about yet), and so one.
Just noticed -- PESN has moved the Keppe motor to their #1 position (FWIW) -- any comments would be appreciated.
QuoteFirst Exotic FE Device to Market?
I will also venture to say that even though at this juncture this product is not being marketed as an "exotic free energy device" (harvesting the wheelwork of nature through a method not presently acknowledged by mainstream science), it is that indeed; and therefore is posed to earn the distinction of being the first exotic free energy device to make it to market in large volume. Before we know for sure that this distinction is deserved, 1) we'll need to confirm by scientific measurement that the device is indeed outputting more power than it consumes from the input wires from the mains;
--PESN
Further info...
From the Keppe site:
QuoteKeppe Motor Features
Economy and efficiency:
• 70% to 90% cheaper than the best conventional engines
• Efficiency up to the standard required by NBR: ISO 50001:2011
• Propellers exclusive aerodynamic and more airflow with less power consumption
Same engine used for a wider range of products: How Keppe Motor efficiency is nearly constant throughout its working range, you can use the same engine in several different products to move various loads. Thus, for example, our laboratory prototype 1/2 HP works over 90% efficiency from 1W to 400W (power output), reaching above 95% in 1/2 HP. As a result, the losses in the form of heat is minimal and the engine can be considered "cold", even under maximum continuous work.
Unmatched versatility: The versatility of Keppe Motor is unique because it allows the same engine replace conventional engines of different types. For example, the same Keppe a fan motor can be used for a blender or a toy. Usually use 1) induction motor for fan, 2) universal motor with brushes and blender 3) Direct Current Motor for toys.
Best value Output Power / Volume: Makes possible the use of this engine in products that would be powered by batteries and / or solar panels such as lawn mowers for public squares, gardens and along roadsides.
Easy adjustment speed: Inverters used to speed variation in conventional engines have a loss of up to 35% engine efficiency. The engine speed variation is the variation with no loss of efficiency pulse (resonance).
Works at any speed with practically constant efficiency curve: The Keppe Motor maintains its high efficiency throughout its working range, since the load and / or speed up project without load and / or speed minimum near zero.
New products and enables portability of various equipment: Speed KM is often disconnected from the network and thus greatly simplifies the use of systems that require high-speed applications, and ensure a high efficiency that it is impossible for these systems to conventional technology. An example of this are the air conditioners environment using rotating disks of high-speed (approximately 14,000 rpm) driven by induction motors coupled bipolar magnifiers speed. These systems are large and heavy and therefore can only be attached in front of large fans. Furthermore, a system with phase motor bipolar and expansion speed is a real "disaster" in terms of energy efficiency.
Negligible consumption when operating in stand-by (no load): Situation optimal for applications where the motor is not required to work but can not be turned off. Ideal also for loading regimes intermittent and / or variable.
Resonance engine which works: Invented to operate according to a law of physics which ensures maximum system efficiency: the resonance. In this state a physical system offers maximum amplitude (greater mechanical work) with a minimal amount of energy put into it. In an engine, the amplitude is translated in terms of torque and rotation (output power) and energy put into energy consumed from the grid (input power). The relationship between the output power by the input indicates the efficiency of the engine.
Do not have cores of ferrosilicon: No hysteresis losses. Furthermore, it is a great advantage in manufacturing because it eliminates cuts plate cutting machine maintenance, etc..
Engine cooler: Can be designed to manufacture materials with less heat resistant castings made with materials less resistant to heat, greatly increasing the range of plastics optional barateiem costs.
Can be encapsulated: At a low engine power (1/3 HP) and high efficiency, heat losses are negligible, so that the engine can be completely encapsulated in a very large range of applications where harsh environments occurring material bulk particulate, corrosive chemical environments, or maresias splashing water or various liquid compromising durability of the engine.
Best value Output Power / Volume: Makes possible the use of this engine in products that would be powered by batteries and / or solar panels such as lawn mowers for public squares, gardens and along roadsides.
New products and enables portability of various equipment: Speed KM is often disconnected from the network and thus greatly simplifies the use of systems that require high-speed applications, and ensure a high efficiency that it is impossible for these systems to conventional technology. An example of this are the air conditioners environment using rotating disks of high-speed (approximately 14,000 rpm) driven by induction motors coupled bipolar magnifiers speed. These systems are large and heavy and therefore can only be attached in front of large fans. Furthermore, a system with phase motor bipolar and expansion speed is a real "disaster" in terms of energy efficiency.
Greater durability: High efficiency Keppe Motor, coupled with the absence of the iron core in the stator coils and a stream of uninterrupted power lower than the equivalent conventional engine ensures longer life for the engine.
Best option for inhospitable regions: In several regions of Brazil (and the world) the power supply is not constant, occurring large voltage variations during the day, or does not meet the minimum expected, with voltages around 80 / 90V . The Keppe engine can be easily sized to have the voltage at the fillister circuit and working voltages below these minimum in order to maintain their efficiency and operate normally as if it were receiving 110 or 220 of the network.
Greater autonomy: Ensures longer life for batteries.
Uses thinner cabling: How work with better efficiency, the KM needs less current in the wiring of your coils, dispensing thick gauge wire. This generates more savings, especially if used in auxiliary engines in automotive, nautical and aviation.
Speed independent of the number of Poles: The poles indicates the number of available torque and work as KM varies its speed by only voltage motors few or multiple poles can also run at any speed.
Works with different core materials: magnets (ferrite, neodymium, alnico, samarium-cobalt, etc..) And coiling Copper or Aluminum.
Numerous possible configurations: The Keppe Motor has a principle that provides projects rotors and stators 1) bipolar or multipolar matrix, 2) with magnetic flux radial, axial or mixed, 3) with coils in series, parallel or mixed, 4) with simple coils, bifilar or polifilares, 5) with coils and spirals aspire open field or confined, etc..
Universal motor: As the power required by Keppe Motor is less for the same work and its rotation is independent of the network, the circuit is simplified and cheaper for products bivolt or they need to work on 110 / 220V, 50 / 60Hz.
Modular engine: can be coupled to other Keppe Motors to increase · the · power without losing efficiency.
Multifunctional circuit: It has variable speed control, dual voltage and reverse rotation. Requires only one bridge rectifier and capacitor filter for automatic switching sensor which is controlled by its own motor for dyeing resonance point, which automatically matches the best efficiency point for a given load. The speed variation can give
1) by simple variation in the AC voltage input circuit,
2) PWM circuit after rectification and filtering, or
3) by varying the pulse width of resonance.
Works with AC or DC: The circuit can be designed to work with this current arising from both the network switched to battery.
Significantly reduces the cost of systems with photovoltaic cells: If we focus our attention on low-power engines, we note that these account for over 80% of the motors used in home appliances. If we think of moving them with photovoltaic panels, the cost would be prohibitive, since a mini panel 20W costs about £ 400, not counting the converter system and batteries. If we take the example of a standard ceiling fan consumes around 130W, we would need 6 panels 20W, which would cost R $ 2,400. In the case of Keppe motor, the fan even consume 24w, which means that a 30W plate would suffice, ie the cost would drop from $ 2,400 to $ R $ 600
Unmatched versatility: The versatility of Keppe Motor is unique because it allows the same engine replace conventional engines of different types. For example, the same Keppe a fan motor can be used for a blender or a toy. Usually use 1) induction motor for fan, 2) universal motor with brushes and blender 3) Direct Current Motor for toys.
From a forum: http://keppemotorclub.bestforumpro.com/t24-geometry-and-effect
QuoteThere is a big difference between the Newman Motor, Bedini Motor and the Keppe Motor. Starting with the Newman Motor, actually it is not that one you see normally on the Internet with few coil windings, because it was conceived to have a lot of windings, a lot of turns, thousands and thousands of turns, sometimes coil lengths with miles of wire. And this is because Newman believes the strength of the magnetic field comes from the gyroscopic particles within the matter of the coil. Therefore, the high efficiency of the Newman motor depends on the number of turns you make the coil. The result is that Newman motors weigh tons and are not practical for domestic appliances. A quick search on the internet (Wikipedia) reveals that the Newman motor is not an overunity machine, as the inventor claimed in the 80's.
J. L. Naudin's tests carried out with a 20Km long coil Newman machine showing overunity results between 105 and 134% efficiency are not conclusive once mechanical measurements within very low output power range (about miliwatts) requires high precision apparatus and the pony-brake method used by him is not suitable for this. The major difference of the Keppe Motor is that we wind the coils to work like an antenna, i.e., to capture energy from space and not from the coil - the first difference. Second, the purpose of the KM's switching circuit is to achieve resonance because we believe the energy comes from outside the coil. Newman uses pulses to provoke sparks because he believes the spikes of the sparks are responsible for the high efficiency of the motor. We don't believe that.
In the case of Bedini's window motor the difference is even greater. It is not designed to deliver useful torque. The spinning of the rotor, together with his SSG circuit – which characterizes Bedini's inventions, is intended to create pulses to recharge batteries, not to generate torque. In addition, Bedini's SSG circuit is not appropriate for the KM, which resembles more a permanent magnet conventional motor than a "free energy" device and has a special pulse circuit developed only for it. For more information about these differences refer to the Keppe Motor Forum, FAQ section.
QuoteBasic Differences between Newman and Bedini-Cole Motors and the Keppe Motor
Admin on Tue Jul 14, 2009 7:02 pm
Since February 2, 2008 when researchers César Soós and Robert Frascari achieved the initial simple functional prototype of the Keppe Motor, "Free Energy" and alternative energy scholars have had questions about the similarities and the differences between the Keppe Motor and the Newman Motor invented by Joseph Newman and the Window Motor invented by John Bedini and Ron Cole.
To help clarify the motors differences and similarities (particularly with Joseph Newman's motor) I believe it is fundamental to explain the main points of the theory behind each motor in order to understand the motor's limitations and also why, after nearly 30 years, they have not achieved practical applications.
I hope that after this brief explanation the differences between the Keppe Motor and the other motors are abundantly clear.
About the Newman motor:
Newman's motor is based on the inventor's theory that suggests "his machine transfers energy in excess from electro-chemical energy taken from batteries" (Wikipedia). Here, we note that the Newman motor was conceived to work with batteries (regular power supply doesn't have an electro-chemical source), not with any power source (rectified AC for instance, as in the case of the Keppe Motor).
In practice, two factors are fundamental to make the Newman motor function: 1) a multiple physical switch, which provokes multiple sparks during the cycle of the rotor – implying a feeding waveform completely different from Keppe Motor's, and 2) a large number of stator coil turns to obtain the current delay effect regarding the applied voltage. As a result, the motor is massive and very heavy – opposite from the Keppe Motor, which benefits from the phenomenon of resonance and operate with any number of turns.
Both factors mentioned can be explained through the Newman's theory and is summarized below:
A quick research on Newman's machine allows us to conclude that Newman assumes that the field arising from electric potentials (voltage), when applied to some material (copper, for instance) makes this material produce a magnetic flow ... differently from scientists who believe that it is the electric current that produces the magnetic field, not voltage. As voltage conducts the electric current inside an inductor, electric current never increases in the same speed as voltage. This causes a lag between current and voltage, always resulting in a lower power factor, as in the case of an inductor (coil). Newman states that the growth rate of the magnetic field arises from two factors: voltage applied and mass of current lead subject to this voltage, and that the energy flow producing the magnetic field comes from the energy contained in the actual atoms of the current lead.
The crucial part occurs when the mechanic switch interrupts the circuit, removing the electric field applied. The collapse of the magnetic field in the coil brings an instantaneous variation of the magnetic field, causing reversion in the direction of electric charges, resulting in higher voltage and speed. Therefore, the magnetic field created through the increase in the return voltage would be the main cause of rotor propulsion. During return peaks, heat is also produced by the flow of electric charges that now walk in the direction opposite to the voltage coming from the battery. According to Newman, the conversion between these two forms of energy allows mechanical energy output to be higher than what would be expected when measuring it directly in the batteries, although the machine is not a perpetual motion one.
Dr. Roger Hastings, a solid state physicist and a Newman motor specialist, affirms that "the essential characteristic of the Newman motor is the extremely long length of the wire necessary to spool the coil, 89 km in one version, with many thousands of turns. The wire is so long that electric charges don't have time to reach the end before the flow is reversed by the switch while the rotor spins."
Newman claimed over 100% efficiency for his invention and requested a patent from the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST). The request was denied by the patent office of the United States in 1986. According to the NIST, "In all tests conducted, input energy always exceeded output energy. In other words, the device doesn't supply more energy than it consumes."
So, after almost 30 years, the Newman motor has never been introduced to the market and its practical and competitive application has been hindered due to its own theoretical conception. To achieve the Newman effect, the inventor designed his motor with tremendous amounts of copper wiring. The motor then becomes extremely massive (approximately 3 tons) to generate 15HP.
Conclusion:
In spite of the physical similarities between the basic demonstrative models of the Keppe Motor and the Newman motor, the theories behind their conception and development allow us to verify an undeniable difference regarding their operation and practical application in the market for higher power models.
It is clear that Newman follows inverted patterns (cf. N. Keppe) of classic physics since he believes that energy comes from the atoms of the current lead, and therefore from the mass of coil copper. It is inevitable that this idea has limited the development of his motor.
On the other hand, the Keppe Motor was developed according to the revolutionary principles of scientist Norberto Keppe presented in his book "A Nova Física da Metafísica Desinvertida – The New Physics Derived from a Disinverted Metaphysics". These principles show that the resonance between the stator coils and the magnetic field of the rotor is essential for its high performance. As a result, the Keppe Motor is small, and needs few turns while working with rectified alternate current or batteries. The Keppe Motor doesn't need sparking (it works with a solid state switch) and uses a self-resonance control circuit, something never mentioned by Newman.
Besides, the Keppe Motor uses a unique system invented by Cesar Soós, Roberto and Alexandre Frascari called Electromagnetic Turbo System - (EMTS), which takes the Keppe Motor easily beyond the 100% efficiency limit.
In light of the aforesaid, we affirm that the Keppe Motor is simpler and cheaper and it has immediate applications in the market, justifying its patent as a differentiated product.
About the Window motor of Bedini & Cole:
John Bedini is both an electrical engineer who studies "free energy based on the scalar theory of American physicist Thomas Bearden" and an inventor of audio devices and generator/motor apparatus for scientific demonstration.
Devices developed by Bedini are based on the pulse switching transistor circuit he named SSG. Of his inventions, the one most visually similar to the Keppe Motor is the Bedini-Cole Window Motor. The first prototype of the Window Motor dates from 1984.
A closer view into the Window motor reveals that this apparatus' objective is to achieve self-sustainability using the SSG circuit. It does not have the objective to obtain useful working torque as the Keppe Motor does. The arrangement of coils at no load, near rotor axis and permanent magnets fixed over the cylindrical rotor - outside the magnetic field of coils, reveals that this device has not been conceived to develop working torque, as with the conventional continuous or alternate current motor and with the Keppe Motor.
Additionally, the SSG circuit of Bedini was conceived to work with permanent magnet rotors to obtain the battery charging effect caused by the capture of radiant energy (scalar theory of Bearden) and not to obtain working torque.
To further clarify the differences between the motors, the previous statements can be verified by referring to the inventor's patents:
1. ^ US6,677,730 (PDF version) (2004-01-13) Bedini, John C., Device and method for pulse charging a battery and for driving other devices with a pulse.
2. ^ US6,545,444 (PDF version) (2003-04-08) Bedini, John C., Device and method for utilizing a monopole motor to create back EMF to charge batteries.
The initial objective of the Keppe Motor development team was to obtain working torque useful in the market, related to portability, competition, and above all, and low consumption. These objectives would fulfill the ecological targets of Associação STOP a Destruição do Mundo (Stop the Destruction of the World Association), which owns the patent request for the Keppe Motor. Therefore, the Keppe Motor's configuration is in between free energy motors (which don't have torque) and conventional motors.
Similar to free energy motors, the feeding of the Keppe Motor is pulsing, and it reuses the energy of coils. Similar to conventional motors, the Keppe Motor has versatile working torque (though to date, it has only been developed for low power), which allows it to work with permanent magnets, electromagnets, high, medium and low voltages, DC power supply of batteries and solar panels, or the AC supply of domestic power grid. The Keppe Motor is also versatile in its switching. For example, it can be commuted by using brushes, relays or solid state components, always delivering the same efficiencies (different from Newman and Bedini who believe the sparks are necessary for the free energy effect alleged in their devices), and using sensors (optical, magnetic (Hall), etc.) or not using sensors.
Additionally, the Keppe Motor's exclusive feature intends to capture essential energy existing in vacuum (Disinverted New Physics of Keppe) through the principle of resonance. Keppe's theory states that matter is a byproduct of the essential energy in the vacuum. Therefore, resonance is fundamental in the conception and development of the technology of the Keppe Motor.
For the Bedini & Cole "generator/motor" to operate, it must use, as an exclusive condition, Bedini's SSG circuit.
The Keppe Motor does not need and was not designed to use this circuit. To use transistor switching, the Keppe Motor development team studied and adapted a special circuit to generate repeated pulses, widely known in electronic engineering to generate short duration pulses (of few milliseconds) and high amplitude (voltage peaks). Such circuits are commonly used to generate time control, synchronization or trigger pulses.
Conclusion:
Despite apparent similarities in construction, the operating principle of the Keppe Motor (resonance) is different from that of the Bedini-Cole Window Motor (SSG pulsing circuit); therefore producing different results. Also, the theories behind the development of the Keppe Motor (Disinverted New Physics of Keppe) and the Bedini-Cole Window Motor (Thomas Bearden) follow different paths. It is for this reason that after over two decades of the creation of the Window motor, no practical applications have been presented in the market, with the exception of battery chargers and apparatus still under scientific study, which uses the SSG pulsing circuit not used with the Keppe Motor.
Steve
Glad all is well with your littlest grandson,
here is a vid on Keppe's claim.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZBYLXnZYnY
thx
Chet
Quote from: ramset on 2013.09.10, 12:30:53
Steve
Glad all is well with your littlest grandson,
here is a vid on Keppe's claim.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZBYLXnZYnY
thx
Chet
Yes, he's doing fine and we feel so blessed.
Looks like the Keppe motor is doing fine also.
Is the language of the vid Brazilian? Is this the "Keppe team" shown in the vid, or are there others? Is the motor being manufactured in China or somewhere? Are there "open source" plans for the Keppe motor?
Lookin' good!
The language is Portuguese, very similar to Spanish and so I understand as it is my second language. They seem to have it right in all sense of the word, the configuration and marketing, I am sure there are going to be a lot of unhappy people around when this gets really moving :D
Glad your grandson is doing OK Steven, I have six C.C
Mike 8)
Thanks, Mike. '
Hopefully a lot of happy people, too!
The keppe motor is nothing more than a pulse motor-a mix of newman and bedini.
My answer to this load of garbage.
http://revolution-green.com/2013/09/10/keppe-fan-challenge/
Brad
I will be calling their PR/marketing devision to see about getting some data or perhaps access to a sample for testing?
at the very least I am sure they will have some comparison Info availabe to validate the Claims!
I'll keep you posted.
thx
Chet
Quote from: tinman on 2013.09.11, 04:43:19
The keppe motor is nothing more than a pulse motor-a mix of newman and ######.
My answer to this load of garbage.
http://revolution-green.com/2013/09/10/keppe-fan-challenge/
I built my first Newman motor back in the late 80's after I saw JN on the tonight show with Johnny Carson. I purchased his hardcover textbook $35 and although Joe is a fanatical researcher, the book is mostly letters of rejection by agencies or testimonials from friends. He does have a few interesting thoughts in the book. Unfortunately JN has turned into a "Newman Motor Evangelist". It is kinda sad to see how he turned out.
The motor, similar in basic construction to the Keppe, performed rather poorly even with alternative commutator designs.
I could write a critique of pulse motors in general if anyone is interested, however, I recommend parties interested in building pulse motors go to an old library and find some books on "Dynamo Electric Machinery" from the turn of the last century.......Oh.....and read them cover to cover.
Quote from: ION on 2013.09.11, 20:32:17
I could write a critique of pulse motors in general if anyone is interested, however, I recommend parties interested in building pulse motors go to an old library and find some books on "Dynamo Electric Machinery" from the turn of the last century.......Oh.....and read them cover to cover.
Did you mean this book? ;)
http://books.google.com/books/about/Dynamo_electric_machinery.html?id=qEUOAAAAYAAJ
Mags
Around pages 50 - 60 the book seems to show self looped motors? :D Just was glancing through. Need to read it.
Mags
@Mags
Did you buy the book,or can we download it somewhere?
Quote from: Magluvin on 2013.09.12, 03:23:29
Did you mean this book? ;)
http://books.google.com/books/about/Dynamo_electric_machinery.html?id=qEUOAAAAYAAJ
Mags
Yes, that is one of many old books on the subject that seem to have been forgotten. Luckily I have a hard copy of that particular book.
It is only the beginning of a foundation upon which understanding of magnetic machines can be built. There are also many newer books that cover the subject in detail. I like some of the language and perspective of the older books.
From a topological standpoint most of the pulse motors we see in videos today are really just externally commutated, typically one pole permanent magnet rotor (###### SG type) with extremely poor utilization of the available strength from the drive coil and the permanent magnet. They can be more than one pole but still suffer from inefficiency in performing real work because of the poor magnetic structure and return paths.
Quote from: tinman on 2013.09.12, 07:33:42
@Mags
Did you buy the book,or can we download it somewhere?
Brad, it is a free download for e-books
Mike 8)
If you want to build a powerful pulse motor, take a car alternator and replace the rotor coil with a disc permanent magnet sandwiched between the poles (teeth) of the rotor. Now you can eliminate the drag of the slip rings as they are no longer needed. Then build a three phase firing circuit (a simple ring oscillator will work just fine using only three FET's or transistors) wired directly to the coils.
Now you have a three phase pulse motor with an efficient magnetic structure that can do some work.
Use one of the larger alternators for rebuild, 8-10 inches dia. as they are more efficient than the smaller 5 to 6 inch dia types.
You might just win the contest with this. It is a "green" approach since it can use scrap alternators and disc speaker magnets, recycling both.
The free download is great except that a few of the pages have been poorly scanned and it does not contain some of the beautiful large prints of machinery of that era.....much better than no book though.
A lot of thinking was done on the subject of motors over 130 years ago. Can you imagine how much more was done since that time?
Another hardback in my library: "Cyclopedia Of Engineering" is similar neat old book.
Keppe's measurement protocol [one of them]
http://www.keppemotor.com/en/3-3.php
thx
Chet
Quote from: ramset on 2013.09.12, 12:35:20
Keppe's measurement protocol [one of them]
http://www.keppemotor.com/en/3-3.php
thx
Chet
A really bad protocol. Depending on the inverter used and how deeply it was loaded compared to it's rating, the inverter could have been highly inefficient compared to the load, 50% or more. e.g. If the inverter draws 2 amps at idle and we attach a 2 amp load, the 4 plus amps that will be drawn puts over 50% inverter loss and 50% delivered to the AC fan motor.
If you absolutely had to have inverters, they should have been applied to both batteries, and one output could have been rectified. But this is an all around bad way to compare things in this day and age of cheap elapsed killowatt meters with power factor correction.
Also comparing a really cheap AC induction motor to a DC motor is not comparing apples to oranges. They need to test against a good DC motor and eliminate the inverter.
So no need for batteries or inverters, an elapsed killowatt meter will separate the men from the boys.
Possibly a rigged race. Real tests for motors provide torque/speed/power family of curves which are standard in the industry.
Quote from: ION on 2013.09.12, 11:35:31
If you want to build a powerful pulse motor, take a car alternator and replace the rotor coil with a disc permanent magnet sandwiched between the poles (teeth) of the rotor. Now you can eliminate the drag of the slip rings as they are no longer needed. Then build a three phase firing circuit (a simple ring oscillator will work just fine using only three FET's or transistors) wired directly to the coils.
Now you have a three phase pulse motor with an efficient magnetic structure that can do some work.
Use one of the larger alternators for rebuild, 8-10 inches dia. as they are more efficient than the smaller 5 to 6 inch dia types.
You might just win the contest with this. It is a "green" approach since it can use scrap alternators and disc speaker magnets, recycling both.
Just so happens that i have a large 24 volt truck altinator that i scored from work.Bearings seem ok,and i doubt the windings would have burnt out. I suspect it would just be the rectifier or voltage regulator that is fried-but we dont need them.
I have my doubt's about the ceramic speaker magnets being strong enough though-what do you think ION?
Quote from: tinman on 2013.09.12, 14:09:07
Just so happens that i have a large 24 volt truck altinator that i scored from work.Bearings seem ok,and i doubt the windings would have burnt out. I suspect it would just be the rectifier or voltage regulator that is fried-but we dont need them.
I have my doubt's about the ceramic speaker magnets being strong enough though-what do you think ION?
You won't need the rectifiers or regulator. If everything else is solid it's worth a try. I can help you with the ring oscillator. There are many approaches to the drive circuit but I like to keep it simple and rugged.
I was thinking in terms of recycling but if you want to spend some money, I'm sure there are much better magnets that would fit, as long as it balances. The rotor coil develops the field as is usually not supplied with too much current so it is not a terribly strong field. The ceramic magnets may be enough for proof of concept. You could try it out with the field rotor coil intact, then substitute magnets later to save on the field energy.
Nice thing about this approach is you already have a well designed magnetic structure that closes all the magnetic paths and uses both ends of the magnet and output coils. This is in stark contrast to many of the homebrew pulse motors we see on the web which are very "leaky" magnetically speaking.
@ ION
What i will do,is pull the alternator apart,and wip up a video clip on it for you to have a look at.Not sure if it is in star or delta config yet,but will find out soon enough.
Once the circuit is made,i will run the rotor winding's of my bench power supply. This way i can limit the voltage and current,and see how much it actually needs to be useful. The other thing is,this is also a way to controll the p/in and motor performance-fine tune if you wish.
Quote from: tinman on 2013.09.13, 10:50:04
@ ION
What i will do,is pull the alternator apart,and wip up a video clip on it for you to have a look at.Not sure if it is in star or delta config yet,but will find out soon enough.
Once the circuit is made,i will run the rotor winding's of my bench power supply. This way i can limit the voltage and current,and see how much it actually needs to be useful. The other thing is,this is also a way to controll the p/in and motor performance-fine tune if you wish.
Yes you can run it as a normal alternator and log the current into the rotating field vs. power output, if your diodes are good. Use a suitable high power resistor on the output or heater coil. It will need to be shaft driven from another motor in your shop.
To have it run as a motor, there are chips designed for "three phase brushless motors" that can drive the stator windings. Alternately we can come up with a circuit using discrete semiconductors to do the job.
When completed, this motor will have lots of torque and speed. Alternators are rated in maximum watts output so you can convert that back to HP.
Alternately, three phase brushless DC motors are in lots of scrap industrial equipment, such as large hard drives, large and small DC "boxer" fans etc. These are three phase "pulse" motors much more efficient and powerful than most of the stuff folks are building on forums.
OK
I spoke with the Keppe representative today ,the Ceiling Fans are 2-3 months out at this time
However they Are very interested in helping out with a test of their technology.[donor Motor?]
Their test protocol /Data sheet is heading my way,I spoke with Steven He is excited to take part in this .
I also know a few others Here are interested too.
I'll keep you posted
Thx
Chet
Here are some examples of Brushless DC motors made from alternators on the web:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tu-ia7GylO0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBeyqX6OKlc
There are many examples of this on the web. You can use an external commutator using hall effect or reed switches driving transistors or just contacts if you want to avoid available chip drivers.
Also, an automobile alternator can be a handy three phase shop generator when hooked to a motor if you bring out the AC windings (pre diodes). There are better ways to do this such as a self excited three phase motor using external capacitors (which we use for our testing)
Here are the rules for the pulse motor buildoff concerning hardware:
From the site:
Quote5. What is a pulse motor????
A pulse motor definition for the build off.
A rotating device that turns by pulses. Those pulses are not limited to electrical pulses.
It can be gas pulses,liquid pulses,or anything that creates a pulsing force ( most the time repetitive pulses but could be limited to one pulse) that is used to rotate the device's mechanism ,rotor,flywheel ECT.
It can be big or small,and made from any material.
The wackier and most use of resources the better.
By these loose rules, serious pulse motors that will outperform by a mile most of what we see as "pulse" motors on the forums have already been built. They are in all types of rotating machinery, automobiles, washing machines etc. for the last 100 years or more.
This art has been refined to a very high degree over the last century making folks like ####### and his designs look laughable by comparison.
Without efficiency, speed, torque, size, weight per HP as criteria of the contest rules it seems this has already all been done.
So maybe a wacky Rube Goldberg resource wasteful approach to motor design will win. That has already also been done many times as we see.
To make the contest interesting and to even the playing field a bit, there should be some constraints like a soap box racer contest, but open ended as it is "anything goes".
@ION
Yes-this year we relaxed the rule's,as last year it seemed a bit to hard for most-but it was very simple really.
Anyway,this year-if it is driven by a form of pulsed energy,then your in. So if you want to enter a internal combustion engine,you can. BUT,you have to make it by hand-no using one already built.
We extended the pulse input to other means than electrical,to try and get people to veer away from the old b***** stuff.
The rule's are based around the definition of a pulse motor,and as there is no definition on the web for a pulse motor-it's an open book.
The first PMBO we held was really good,and there were some forms of pulse motors that i had never seen before.One was based around gravity,and worked really well,and another was small explosions of gas being ignited within a skate board wheel-but that had a slight melt down.
Anyway,i will pull that alternator down today some time,and see how it looks inside. I'm looking at a transistor based circuit to drive it (2n3055) as i have lots of them,and there pretty hardy.
@Chet
All i need Chet,is the fan blade there useing-nothing more.Most of the efficiency there claiming is coming from the new designed blade,not there motor.
This way i can compare there RPM's per watt from there motor,and RPM's per watt from my motor.
There doesn't need to be any CFM calculations taken.All we need to do is show the same (or greater) RPM per watt using the very same fan blade that they use on there setup,with there P/in claims.
So if there claim is 200RPM at 2 watt's,then that is 100RPM per watt-(highly unlikely)
I'm not interested in showing any sort of P/in P/out calculation's,only showing there motor against mine,under the same condition's,doing the same work for P/in.