OverUnity Research

Hi All,

I have decided to start a open forum on air engine that use propane to drive a close loop system.

This is the only way for me to keep this technology out in the open.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BUsnaPrjTw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BUsnaPrjTw)

What is your opinion?

Tom

Tom
you're gonna have some fun....

the only thing I would add is the Recent Open source  propane refrigerant  PDF from Chris Hunter was the stimuli for this work.

thank you Chris Hunter [Alaskastar].

Quite true his work is modifying ICE's and has issues in real world application [leaks freeze ups etc]

original thread here
http://www.overunityresearch.com/index.php?topic=2438.msg38519#msg38519

here
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/17019-chris-hunter-alaska-star-releases-o-u-pdf-2.html#post258164

and here
http://www.overunity.com/14628/chris-hunter-alaska-star-releases-an-o-u-pdf/msg407815/#msg407815

I go by user name Ramset on those forums, have since changed to my actual name here.

Thx
Chet

Hi Chet,

Yes I agree Chris Hunter started this Idea, so credit is due to him.

Thank you Chris Hunter.

Now after reading some data about propane, it open all types of possibilities in free energy.

This is some data that holds the key to a efficient propane air engine projects.

Propane is a hydrocarbon fuel, chemical description C3H8.
Its boiling point is -44°F (-42°C)
Its octane rating is 104
Latent heat of vaporization = 183 BTU's / lb (426 kJ/kg)
91,500 BTU's per gallon (25300 kJ/L)
Autoignition temperature 855°F (457°C)
Stoichiometric by weight = 15.5:1
Molecular weight = 44.09
Carbon % by weight = 89%
Hydrogen % by weight = 18%
Flammability limits = 2.1 – 9.6%
Viscosity at 68°F = 0.592 BTU/lb °F (2.48 KJ/Kg °K)
Expansion rate = 270:1 (expands in volume 270 times from liquid to ambient pressure vapor)
LPG is auto-refrigerating, when pressure is reduced, it boils by absorbing heat

Propane's vapor pressure (the amount of pressure required to keep LPG liquid at ambient temperatures) is zero at -44°F (-42°C), about 120 psig at 70°F, about 250 psig at 125°F, and close to 400 psig at 160°F.

When compressing air you have a lost as pressure increase, and volume goes down.

But compressing air is very in-efficient due to mechanical load and temperatures.

For propane, you have a expanding liquid to gas 1:270 times where air is 1:1. Does this mean that propane in a gas form needs 270 compression stroke to turn back to a  liquid?

That I don't know at this time, but it's very important to find out with a prototype.

Tom.

This is my efficient ac compressor set up..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW7z9EeQp3E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wW7z9EeQp3E)

Tom

My Propane LP jet Engine design.

Tom

Tom
This is from Johan  a very good man with much experience in these systems,  first released in the last century [1998-9]

http://www.heat2power.net/

thx
Chet

I have lots of engine designs that will work, this one is a Propane LP Jet Engine.

This is a simple theory on how it works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwmINaS0X0c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwmINaS0X0c)

I will also show a Clem's Engine design base on expand rotating rim jet engine design.


Tom

Hi All,

I just finished the propane pump assy.

I also add the radiator to act as the expansion and condenser of gas to liquid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogzxzW5WFEw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogzxzW5WFEw)

Tom

Wow Tom, I wish I had your energy, keep at it O0

regards

Mike 8)

Thanks Mike,

I have a question on this idea of using a propane power jet engine close loop system, what is your opinion?

Tom :o

We had worked up a similar design using a hallow shaft and pumping the liquid phase back up the center of the shaft to the expansion turbine. Completely sealed, one moving part with coils and magnets for both start up and run as a generator.

So basically a turbine at one end of the shaft, a scroll pump or another turbine in the reverse direction at the cold end working fluid circulates through the hallow axle, hits the top hot plate, expands , then flows to the outside of the container where it is cooled back to liquid, final cooling at the bottom plate.

This is a continuous process rather than the "batch" process of a piston heat motor.

I'll post the drawings. It was based on some very old patents for mercury vapor closed cycle heat motors from the 1930's and some later versions. Prior art is noted in the descriptive document.

We were going to patent when we discovered the prior art. The drawings attached are not the final design, which was much improved in concept.

Any interest?

Quote
Abstract:
A sealed, self contained heat engine that has effectively one moving part. The engine can produce electrical energy or mechanical torque from the presented temperature differential on its hot and cold sides. The device uses a novel turbine style approach to capturing the expansion and compression of gas due to the energy present in the temperature differential between the hot and cold sides. The engine can double as a heat pump if rotational energy is imparted on it. The device has very few inexpensive molded parts and operates differently than conventional Stirling cycle type engines

That interesting Ion,

I have all the parts to build two jet engine with 5" turbine compressors from diesel trucks I got new on Ebay for 5$, yes 10$ for two turbine compressors.

Thanks for the input.

Tom O0

We are glad you are sticking around Tommey, I enjoy all your posts.

Hi All,

Ok, I Got some data to compress up to 120 psi @20amps or 2200 watts = 2.94hp of mechanical load.

This will change when fill with propane, it should be less energy.

Enjoy this test...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH4MxSBriag (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tH4MxSBriag)

Tom.

Hi All,

To make a propane or air running engine in a efficient way, I have design a simple 3 way linear valve.

Take a look at this;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7WOoMjY4DA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F7WOoMjY4DA)

Tom.

Hi All,

I'm testing a air run on this valve I design, if everything works out I will put in on the ac system and test run using the compressor before adding propane.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1dvGFoL6lM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1dvGFoL6lM)

Tom  :D

I'm not using a IC engine, waste of time and use lots of CFM's.

I'm going with my own engine design with a 6.5" crank shaft.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am7BrD_A7zA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am7BrD_A7zA)

Tom...

Hi Tom,

This information might help you on your journey:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/P-V_diagram

Thanks Evolvingape,


I did a test run and my electric valves are not fast enough, just wanted to make shore before I go back to mechanical linear valves.

I also found that my 1/4 input ports are too small, need 1/2 or better, this will allow better flow of expanding gas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42CjyHjMfxg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42CjyHjMfxg)




Tom

This is a IC engine running much faster, but lots of cfm. O0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ0e-kM27CM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ0e-kM27CM)

Tom.

Excellent start Tommey.  You definitely have something there you can work with.

Are you getting pretty good torque at the shaft?

How about blow-by?  Crankcase breathing okay?  Do you see any significant changes when you tilt the block to let some oil get around the rings?


Seriously, with this setup, you should be able to try some phase-change experiments.  Nice work.

Hi Matt,

Yes I agree it's a start to future experiments.

I still need to make the valve leak proof, but I could try to loop in in the compressure set up I have.

I could also add a glow plug to increase pressure as the pressurized air enter the chamber.

Lots of experiments that can be done.

Thanks for your input O0

Tom.

Really excellent Tom O0

Mike 8)

Hi All,

OK, now there just might be something to a close loop system wiith a IC engine.  O0

This is the first test using the AC compressor to compress air to run the IC engine two stroke design.

Enjoy the show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa_4cxA84cU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pa_4cxA84cU)

Tom  :o

Hi Tom,

The new air cars use regenerative breaking to recover kinetic energy and store it or use it for drive.

ICE ORC systems recover waste heat energy from the hot ICE exhaust.

How do we integrate the two systems ?

http://m.autocar.co.uk/car-news/green-cars/peugeot-citroen-unveils-compressed-air-hybrid-tech

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2568732/Car-runs-air-set-hit-streets-year-Peugeot-claims-new-hybrid-117mpg.html

Hi Evolvingape,


I don't think those would work due to constant input of pressure they need.

This is another test I did:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UZTGq1I8tE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UZTGq1I8tE)

Looking into different motor designs to get the most efficient output.

Tom

Hi Tom,

Yesterday's paper. Peugeot Citroen think it works, production starting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2679990/Car-runs-air-New-hybrid-greener-electric-rivals.html

So, no need for batteries as energy is stored as gas pressure.

Now add ORC sleeve, recover waste heat energy and convert it into?, apply that energy how?

Static or Dynamic seals preferable on a pressure wall with atmospheric / vacuum differential?

Quote from: evolvingape on 2014.07.04, 20:58:44
Hi Tom,

Yesterday's paper. Peugeot Citroen think it works, production starting.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2679990/Car-runs-air-New-hybrid-greener-electric-rivals.html

So, no need for batteries as energy is stored as gas pressure.

Now add ORC sleeve, recover waste heat energy and convert it into?, apply that energy how?

Static or Dynamic seals preferable on a pressure wall with atmospheric / vacuum differential?

Seem's the frogies have done it again, they were way ahead before with selectronic gear changing, that's going to be quite a knock on the battery industry O0

At 2Lt per 100km that's about a 50% + saving on a 1.2Lr engine (normally 4-4.5Lt).

I think ORC would be simpler for the same efficiency

I wonder how they  combine the two engines running together?

thanks for posting

regards

Mike 8)

Hi All,

OK this is the best way to convert linear into direct rotational energy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNm6IcQdK-8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNm6IcQdK-8)

Tom

Hey Mike,

Integration is the key here.

We have traditional fossil fuel ICE's, ORC systems, hybrid electric, and air / hydraulic power as well to choose from.

http://www.2carpros.com/articles/hybrid-motor-and-transmission-information

An ORC system recovering heat from the ICE system, and heat from the compressed air system is going to be very efficient.

What is the best output form of energy from the ORC system to choose ?

Convert potential energy to rotary moment or linear motion or both ?

How many feet does a 60Hz alternator rotor of 6" diameter, travel in 1 second ?

Hi All,

This is a test of the ratchet engine producing about 50 rpm,s with a single piston stroke at 100 psi.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcKkmUv8ZQE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcKkmUv8ZQE)

Tom

Hi All,

This is a electrical load test from a single piston stoke at 110 psi.

Enjoy the show O0.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHeI5we9d6M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHeI5we9d6M)


Tom

That is really pretty cool Tommey.  So at 110 PSI and about how much volume in that piston?

I'm guessing the output watts are still a bit lower than would be needed to keep the air compressor tank replenished.  Still, you are using that compressed air quite efficiently, probably more so than the compressor uses electrical power to pump up the tank.

Hi Matt,

The piston ram has a 2.25 diameter piston and a 16" stroke that is about 63.62cu/in.

If I ran this at 60 times back and forth per minute, 30 out and 30 in it would use a total of (63.62*60)/1728=2.20cu/ft@110 psi.

The piston area is 3.98in/sq, so 110 psi is putting 437in/lb on the piston ram  :D.

Tom.

Please do not try this unless you are certain of yourself !!!

What I think would be neat to see is a tiny drop of water that is still liquid and has been raised to 700 degrees, injected into that ram.  I have a hunch the force would be tremendous.  How on earth you could get a small spot of water to that temperature though without it forcing its way into steam seems like an awfully good trick, but supposedly some have actually done it--Dennis Lee comes to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yt_hqmgwMBU

Hi Matt,

I would not sell my house on these clowns, even Dennis Lee.

The water idea would depend on how much energy is needed to freeze it again.

Tom

Hi All,

I would like to show some data on how much energy this system can produce with little if any lost.

My piston area is 3.98in/sq
My power stroke is 16"
My total displacement is (3.98"*16")= 63.68cu/in

At 120 psi the piston produce (120*3.98)=477.6 in/lb
At 16" power stroke the total work done is (16"/12")=1.33  (477.7*1.33)=635.21 foot pound of mechanical work.

1 hp = 33,000 foot pounds per/minute or 550ft/lb/sec

This is how many power stroke needed to produce just 1 hp (746w) per/minute from this ratchet engine design.

33,000/635.21=51.95 power strokes are needed per/minute
Total CFM's@120psi is ((63,68*51.95)/1728)=1.9 CfM's

This is how much liquid propane is needed to produce 1 HP

Propane pressure 120 psi.
1 gram of propane expands to 270grams or 9.52cu/in

This is where the math comes in, I want the liquid to expand to a max of 60 psi and then release from the piston stroke.
Piston area is 63.68, at half the power stoke it is 31.84cu/in this will allow the liquid propane to expand the total length and still have 60 psi in the system.

Total gram of liquid propane needed per power stroke is: 31.84/9.52=3.34 grams of propane
Total output of mechanical work is half of 635.21/2=317.61ft/lb

Amount of liquid propane needed to produce 1 hp is:
(33,000/317.61)=103.90  3.34g*103.90=347.03grams per minute of liquid propane.

347.03 grams=12.241oz.

I would like your opinion?

Tom

Hi All,

This is the most important part in the linear ratchet engine the valve design.

I'm making this a good design to last longer then PVC, even the valve piston are aluminum machine to my specs.

It will take time to finished, but I'm about half way done.

Enjoy the Show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dl5jdNLbp9A

Tom

I feel bad for Gary Hendershot if he is missing this.  I know why now he got so excited whenever Tommey Reed was the featured presenter on the Smart Scarecrow Show.

Great work.  Can hardly wait to see this gizmo in action.

Hi All,

Not finish with the valve yet, but it's almost done.

I have work to do tomorrow, and maybe in the after noon I can finish up on the valve.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7gusj6HULI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7gusj6HULI)

Tom.

Hi All,

I got finished my choo choo piston valve O0.

Enjoy the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XywCf5C7I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6XywCf5C7I)

Tom

Hi All,

I finished the valve and test run my choo choo ratchet engine.

Enjoy the show Afro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNGdoyvIf1w

Tom

Very nice Tom.  Looks like it works real smooth and precise.  I think you got a winner there for turning pressure into rotational motion.

Very nice Tom, from my refuge here in France, it's raining cats and dogs here and 12c, not what I'm normally used to :'(

back home in around 8 days

regards

Mike 8)

Hi All,

Did some testing today with different compressors, and nothing could produce the 2.2 CFM's need to keep the ratchet engine going.

I do have new question on how much energy is needed to convert propane gas back to liquid, It's going to take a lot of energy  :-\.

This is the a run test I did today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9L01tLW2_3k&hd=1

Tom